The Syndicate

I don't think Timmer is a good choice. I'm inclined to vote for Bass, actually. I don't think I'm buying his bold claims.

Really llama so I'm guessing you didnt check Roxy.

Bass_the_Clever wrote:Really llama so I'm guessing you didnt check Roxy.

I'm not prepared to comment on how I use my night power at this time.

thellama73 wrote:I don't think Timmer is a good choice. I'm inclined to vote for Bass, actually. I don't think I'm buying his bold claims.

Also what bold claims?

If Roxy wasn't Captain Cold then that makes Bass look pretty suspect.

I was really hoping to hear something more reasonable from Timmer, like who he thinks is trying to frame him. Black Rock's mind control seems to have been Timmer related, and Metalmarsh had to keep saying Timmer's name. Timmer's response was a roleclaim and a big No U and not a lot of interest in figuring it out.

Long Con wrote:If Roxy wasn't Captain Cold then that makes Bass look pretty suspect.

I was really hoping to hear something more reasonable from Timmer, like who he thinks is trying to frame him. Black Rock's mind control seems to have been Timmer related, and Metalmarsh had to keep saying Timmer's name. Timmer's response was a roleclaim and a big No U and not a lot of interest in figuring it out.

I'm just pretty busy today, tbh. To be clear, I didn't roleclaim, saying I'm an old Rogue is just synonymous with saying I'm a civ. It's just that in this game, the civs are so outnumbered that it veers towards a role claim, but I'm ujst simply saying I'm a civ, essentially. And I don't have disinterest in this lynch, i just have no ideas at all. If Roxy was bad, then Bass is definitely bad, that's a given. But we can't know what Roxy was. if bass is just misguided towards me, then the New Rogues are... who? I've got no clue.

I NO U'd Black Rock because the tone of her vague accusation against me nicely mirrored what I felt Roxy had done the other day; announce that you've got thoughts on someone that could be important (Roxy's mystery BTSC partner, BR's proof that mind control points to me) but then don't reveal it (must check with host), meanwhile the clock ticks ever towards the lynch. By the time BR may indeed say something about me, the lynch will be all but decided, which is very convenient, you see?

Suggest evidence, but don't reveal it, and let the lynch run its course. It's a very easy way to get someone dead, because i can't defend against it. And yes, there has been a bizarre attachment to me personally with these mind controls. And i know very well that I've got an ego, and that i can play too cocky and sure of myself, but I'd ask anyone if they really think I'd spin mind control into things linked to myself so brazenly. Of course, it would make for a huge wonderful wifom, but this just isn't anywhere near my style.

LC, what do you make of Bass, now that llama has suggested that a lynch of me isn't the right way to go? And what do you think the odds are of BR fabricating evidence against me protected by the "have to check with host" line?

Long Con wrote:... and not a lot of interest in figuring it out.

As for this part, all I can say is that, again, I'm at work and busy, but more importantly, I know when I'm getting lynched and have no way to prevent it. You'll remember your recruitment game where i got lynched TWICE as an unrecruited unaligned player. I did the same thing there... when I cannot defend, and have nothing to show in regards to who better to lynch, sometimes I just throw in the towel. It's not because I'm bad, as your game twice proved, but because I've seen too many people get frustraed and bitter and angry in these games as they get lynched, and I'm just not going to let myself get that riled up. I've said all that I can say, I've got no better leads than Bass or BR despite that being a No U,and I've got to move on with my day, you know?

I've been waiting to hear from TH this day because his game has ended. CIvvie TH is way more active. I followed his game a little, and at one point, I knew without reading the game, that he was bad, because had he been a civ, no matter how overwhelmed he was by the game, he'd be in there right in the middle of all the chaos. At the end, he fought like that, but it was the last stretch.

So this game, I've been waiting to see what will happen after the game. Now, unless he's silenced or whatever, I can't see civvie TH being so absent in this game.

As for Timmer, I maybe a totally naive here, but Timmer is getting to me and I believe him. He doesn't seem bad to me

After much thought, I've decided to give young master Bass a break today and see what tomorrow brings. I might learn something during the night. Instead, I am giving my vote to SVS, to shake her out of her slumber and see what that does. I am starting to have a sneaking suspicion that we are seeing a very tricksy SVS pulling the wool over all of our eyes.

The VS in her name stands for "versus" and implies an adversarial relationship.

thellama73 wrote:After much thought, I've decided to give young master Bass a break today and see what tomorrow brings. I might learn something during the night. Instead, I am giving my vote to SVS, to shake her out of her slumber and see what that does. I am starting to have a sneaking suspicion that we are seeing a very tricksy SVS pulling the wool over all of our eyes.

The VS in her name stands for "versus" and implies an adversarial relationship.

Thank you master Llama.

Since I have felt inclined to trust Bass, I will second that. I'm also getting some warm and fuzzies for Timmer. I don't know if it's a trap or genuine, yet, but I will trust llama at the very least.

Only voting right now so we have a tie. This could potentially change later.

thellama73 wrote:After much thought, I've decided to give young master Bass a break today and see what tomorrow brings. I might learn something during the night. Instead, I am giving my vote to SVS, to shake her out of her slumber and see what that does. I am starting to have a sneaking suspicion that we are seeing a very tricksy SVS pulling the wool over all of our eyes.

The VS in her name stands for "versus" and implies an adversarial relationship.

Well, since you bring it up... I was waiting to see if Timmer thought this way, because S~V~S is actually the person that I think has been mind controlling people. Rabbit, Metalmarsh, Black Rock... with a clever twist of focusing people toward Timmer. These are all players that I could see S~V~S targeting. I wanted to see if Timmer thought the same.

*votes S~V~S*

as bandwagonny as this may sound, I wouldn't mind joining an SVS vote, I think. Feeling better about it than Timmer and even Bass

FZ. wrote:I've been waiting to hear from TH this day because his game has ended. CIvvie TH is way more active. I followed his game a little, and at one point, I knew without reading the game, that he was bad, because had he been a civ, no matter how overwhelmed he was by the game, he'd be in there right in the middle of all the chaos. At the end, he fought like that, but it was the last stretch.

So this game, I've been waiting to see what will happen after the game. Now, unless he's silenced or whatever, I can't see civvie TH being so absent in this game.

As for Timmer, I maybe a totally naive here, but Timmer is getting to me and I believe him. He doesn't seem bad to me

Sorry FZ, after the Champs game ended I took some time off to refresh my mafia batteries. I've found it difficult to get into this game a bit since we can't draw BTSC connections between the baddies, at least not in the early going and I was so wrapped up in the other game for a while. I agree with you that Timmer seems sincere and I likely won't be voting for him, but weren't you saying earlier in the game that you weren't reading him as sincere? May I ask what changed?

For me, I'll say that I had BTSC with Timmer and DH on Day 2 during the Bass lynch and we talked extensively in chat about Bass potentially targeting himself. Timmer was the first to bring it up in chat and subsequently the first to put the idea out into the thread. I really don't see Timmer being a New Rogue for this reason.

FZ. wrote:Doesn't anyone find it weird that when we finally get replacements for some of the players, two people went for a kill this night, and it doesn't say who they were? To me that screams one of the replacements made the kill and in order to not make it obvious, the identities are left vague.
If llama didn't kill, then perhaps Captain cold isn't dead, and it wasn't Roxy, and that's another person who made the kill. Not sure about that though.

Yes FZ I think it's weird as well and worth talking about. We were missing some kills early in the game IIRC, no Grodd or Plunder kills. But here we are with a few new replacements and some mysterious kills show up. I think it points to Plunder being a new replacement specifically since he kills on even nights but didn't show up on night 2. The other option is that we already lynched Plunder and didn't even know it and that's why the kill was written mysteriously.

I think we can safely say that The Detectives were one of the two parties who targeted Bullzeye since they choose "e" to reveal in the secret roles and no previous detective kills had an "e" in them. But the other kill must have come from Grodd or Plunder IMO, pointing to the fact that that player might have been inactive before last night.

MovingPictures07 wrote:Given the nature of this game, it seems that most parties would want to minimize unnecessary conflict and accomplish their win conditions all the while appearing as reasonable and receptive to others as possible, yes?

I understand why it makes sense for everyone to appear civilian-friendly for the beginning of the game, but once a significant number of Old Rogues are dead, this game could take on more of an LMS-style.

It seems to me that we would want to eliminate players who seem unlikely to offer any harm to us, but simultaneously the argument can be made to eliminate those who could offer no benefit as well.

This post is giving me New Rogue vibes all over my body. It feels like MP is setting up a turning of the tide for once more Old Rogues are dead. It almost feels like he's threatening Old Rogues and Detectives with this post because he's saying they'll soon be in the minority and at the mercy of the other factions.

I could also see it coming from an Independent's perspective, in a "Hey New Rogues I'm not pushing an Old Rogue agenda at all so please leave me alone" sort of way.

But I cannot see it coming from an Old Rogue perspective at all.

I need to hear more from MP about why he chose to make this post. I understand if he's just trying to figure out how the game will play out, but it seems to be coming from the wrong mindset entirely.

If the Independents side with the Old Rogues and Detectives, we can still take out Grodd and the New Rogues and win the game together.

Re: SVS I was feeling like she was an Indy Rogue or at least was trying to appear as such. I'll look back and see if I can find the quotes to support this.

Oh, I thought this poll ended today. I may change my vote. Sorry all.

S~V~S wrote:

timmer wrote:In light of Roxy's map partner being Aces, I can't support an Aces lynch anymore. If people aren't behind a Roxy lynch, I'd also offer up a SpaceDaisy lynch as analternative. Roxy, why did you wait so long to reveal this?

You think she's lying about other things, but not about this?

TBH, if I was not worried about dying myself, I would vote for you, lol. You are really the sketchiest person in this thread, IMO.

S~V~S wrote:Ditto. I really only voted him cause he is Not Me and Timmer would go there.

I got Indy Rogue vibes from these posts. It is likely colored by the fact I just had BTSC with SVS in a game where we were independents but the whole "Not Me" thing reminds me very much of our goals during that game lol. The fact that she voted WITH Timmer, who she deemed the sketchiest person in the thread, says a lot about her motivations I think. I think SVS is mainly looking out for herself this game. At the same time her attitude seems civvie-aligned outside of these posts, specifically when she defended Bass 1.0. I know she's said that she would defend civvies as a baddie, and maybe she'd defend Bass if she was bad and knew that Bass was bad too, but this game setup is entirely different than most, and I think she was genuinely defending someone she didn't want to see leave the game. As I write this out I convince myself more and more that SVS is either playing with Indy motivations or she's fully committed to appearing that way. And if she were a New Rogue I think she would try harder to give off civvie vibes, not independent vibes.

Happy Mother's Day to all the mom's out there! None of us would be here without you!


It has been a very long time since I've played-- years to be exact-- but it's almost like riding a bike.

The first post that I saw and decided that I wanted to keep an eye on her was this one by Sophie. Just seems like there's not a lot of substance in her posts to back up her statement. I don't know if this is how she typically plays or something, but atm it just bothers me, I just want to hear something more. Until then:

Then, as the day went on I noticed all the Timmer stuff, but something in his defense kinda makes me want to believe him. If I'm not mistaken, didn't this start with a cursed SVS? If so, I'm inclined to believe that maybe Timmer isn't bad but perhaps a victim of a set-up and I don't want to throw a vote there if that is the case. If SVS wasn't cursed then and she was going at him hella hard for whatever reason, that doesn't sit well with me. IIRC, SVS is quite the talented player and she could easily be messing with my head. Due to my own confusion on this matter, mostly from skimming the previous days posts and trying to keep this all in order in my head, I'm not inclined to vote for Timmer atm, either. Or SVS for that matter.

Then there was Bass's post that gave me pause. IMO, it seems like the reason you're so adamant about Roxy having been Capt Cold is so that it would give the you civ credit. I will admit that it was your most recent posts that truly stuck out to me caused me to look at your previous posts regarding Capt Cold and form my opinion.

There's still a lot of time left and that will hopefully give me the opportunity to do a bit more thorough re-read to see if there's something else that sticks out to me.

Who did MP replace? I can't find it anywhere.

Holy mother of pearl! That's a lot of posts to catch up on and I realized it took me 2 hours to write my previous post. smh.

Bass is playing a dangerous game if he only claimed Roxy was Captain Cold for the civ credit. He has painted a huge target on his back by coming out with that. I don't see the long-term benefits if he's lying. In any case I do think it's only his strong opinion, nothing he knew for certain.

DREAM wrote:Happy Mother's Day to all the mom's out there! None of us would be here without you!


It has been a very long time since I've played-- years to be exact-- but it's almost like riding a bike.

The first post that I saw and decided that I wanted to keep an eye on her was this one by Sophie. Just seems like there's not a lot of substance in her posts to back up her statement. I don't know if this is how she typically plays or something, but atm it just bothers me, I just want to hear something more. Until then:

Then, as the day went on I noticed all the Timmer stuff, but something in his defense kinda makes me want to believe him. If I'm not mistaken, didn't this start with a cursed SVS? If so, I'm inclined to believe that maybe Timmer isn't bad but perhaps a victim of a set-up and I don't want to throw a vote there if that is the case. If SVS wasn't cursed then and she was going at him hella hard for whatever reason, that doesn't sit well with me. IIRC, SVS is quite the talented player and she could easily be messing with my head. Due to my own confusion on this matter, mostly from skimming the previous days posts and trying to keep this all in order in my head, I'm not inclined to vote for Timmer atm, either. Or SVS for that matter.

Then there was Bass's post that gave me pause. IMO, it seems like the reason you're so adamant about Roxy having been Capt Cold is so that it would give the you civ credit. I will admit that it was your most recent posts that truly stuck out to me caused me to look at your previous posts regarding Capt Cold and form my opinion.

There's still a lot of time left and that will hopefully give me the opportunity to do a bit more thorough re-read to see if there's something else that sticks out to me.

I was not cursed

My niece has appendicitis, and shes not verbal, so they were not sure how long it had been going on, and were worried about peritonitis. She is OK, we're all tired, but OK. What gave you the idea I was cursed?

And knowing Roxy, I thought Bass' idea was utterly plausible. I have to go read more and see what happened.

I started from the bottom up and saw this. I have to go see what happened.

thellama73 wrote:

Bass_the_Clever wrote:Really llama so I'm guessing you didnt check Roxy.

I'm not prepared to comment on how I use my night power at this time.

This means no. I doubt Bass would have so brazenly ask this question if he expected you to openly contradict him.

Long Con wrote:

thellama73 wrote:After much thought, I've decided to give young master Bass a break today and see what tomorrow brings. I might learn something during the night. Instead, I am giving my vote to SVS, to shake her out of her slumber and see what that does. I am starting to have a sneaking suspicion that we are seeing a very tricksy SVS pulling the wool over all of our eyes.

The VS in her name stands for "versus" and implies an adversarial relationship.

Well, since you bring it up... I was waiting to see if Timmer thought this way, because S~V~S is actually the person that I think has been mind controlling people. Rabbit, Metalmarsh, Black Rock... with a clever twist of focusing people toward Timmer. These are all players that I could see S~V~S targeting. I wanted to see if Timmer thought the same.

*votes S~V~S*

Absolutely no mind control here. MM says he was mind controlled towards Bullz. Why does that implicate Timmer? MM suspected Timmer~ getting him to vote for someone other than Timmer would be ridiculous in your scenario.

And I would mind control people I did not think would try to work a way around it, and all of those people would, tbh.

And next time you have a kid in the hospital, see if I give you the BOTD. Nice to wait until today to throw a vote at me

Ok, I am back after a crazy week. I didn't keep up very well with this game. I read the new posts nightly, but didn't follow along very well.

Can someone give me a recap on everything that's happened since the start of Night 3 (or Day 4). I think I have missed some things between all information guesses that seem to be flying around.

thellama73 wrote:After much thought, I've decided to give young master Bass a break today and see what tomorrow brings. I might learn something during the night. Instead, I am giving my vote to SVS, to shake her out of her slumber and see what that does. I am starting to have a sneaking suspicion that we are seeing a very tricksy SVS pulling the wool over all of our eyes.

The VS in her name stands for "versus" and implies an adversarial relationship.

MY SLUMBER?? MY NON VERBAL NEICES FUCKING APPENDIX BURST. My sister lives in another state and the entire family was in an uproar. You know what, maybe you should lynch me. One less civvie role for Timmer to claim that he is.

SVS means Sit Vincent Sit, not any other snarky meaning you think is amusing.

S~V~S wrote:

Long Con wrote:

thellama73 wrote:After much thought, I've decided to give young master Bass a break today and see what tomorrow brings. I might learn something during the night. Instead, I am giving my vote to SVS, to shake her out of her slumber and see what that does. I am starting to have a sneaking suspicion that we are seeing a very tricksy SVS pulling the wool over all of our eyes.

The VS in her name stands for "versus" and implies an adversarial relationship.

Well, since you bring it up... I was waiting to see if Timmer thought this way, because S~V~S is actually the person that I think has been mind controlling people. Rabbit, Metalmarsh, Black Rock... with a clever twist of focusing people toward Timmer. These are all players that I could see S~V~S targeting. I wanted to see if Timmer thought the same.

*votes S~V~S*

Absolutely no mind control here. MM says he was mind controlled towards Bullz. Why does that implicate Timmer? MM suspected Timmer~ getting him to vote for someone other than Timmer would be ridiculous in your scenario.

And I would mind control people I did not think would try to work a way around it, and all of those people would, tbh.

And next time you have a kid in the hospital, see if I give you the BOTD. Nice to wait until today to throw a vote at me

No I didn't.

I thought you said that? Sorry then, my bad. I thought you said you were forced to vote for him?

In any case, since family emergency means "slumber" to our confirmed civ, I need to just not be here tonight I think

I did say I was mind-controlled yes.

And I did vote for Bullzeye on both Day 3's, so I supposed it could be considered obvious.

Linki: I'm back from my slumber.

S~V~S wrote:In any case, since family emergency means "slumber" to our confirmed civ, I need to just not be here tonight I think

What do you think about MP's post that I highlighted a little ways up?

Don't take llama's words too seriously would be my advice. He might suspect you but his reasoning seemed willingly silly. He also said he would consider changing his vote.

Glad to hear everything turned out okay with your neice.

Turnipface, are you trustworthy?

I'm always worth trusting.

Vote Turnip Head

I don't think I deserved that

:P Just kidding, maybe.


What are your thoughts on Dharmahelper? Any clue as to why he was killed by Captain Cold?

You said you had early BTSC with him right? Perhaps you have more insight than the rest of us.

Turnip Head wrote:

S~V~S wrote:In any case, since family emergency means "slumber" to our confirmed civ, I need to just not be here tonight I think

What do you think about MP's post that I highlighted a little ways up?

Don't take llama's words too seriously would be my advice. He might suspect you but his reasoning seemed willingly silly. He also said he would consider changing his vote.

Glad to hear everything turned out okay with your neice.

Well, MP telling me that I made no sense is something he KNOWS is going to upset me. He KNOWS it. But he said it anyhow. That does not read like civ MP to me. That particular post of his that you quoted is definitely written from a non-Old Rogue perspective for sure. An interesting point that I would not have noticed had you not pointed it out.

Also, I'm not an indy. But thanks for not automatically thinking I am bad And I agree that Bass would be putting a huge target on himself to say what he said just for cred. And Thank YOu. It's scary cause she's non verbal autistic, and it's hard sometimes to tell if something serious is wrong. She acted exactly the same, my sister said, as she does when she is having bathroom problems. So they gave her laxatives for over 24 hours before they called the doctor. They live hours from here, and there are pets here etc., so logistics etc. Rough weekend

I think the way I reacted to those two votes tell me I should not be here tonight.

And yeah, MM harsh. And OK, that is what i did. I thought you meant you were forced to vote for Bullz. Then not knowing what you were forced to do, not sure how LC could say it was anti-Timmer, or how I could defend against that. And as I said, I don;t plan on defending against it tonight. I plan on cracking a bottle of wine & maybe watching some old GoT.

Linki, I think CC suspected him probably. Isn't that how it usually works?

S~V~S wrote:And yeah, MM harsh. And OK, that is what i did. I thought you meant you were forced to vote for Bullz. Then not knowing what you were forced to do, not sure how LC could say it was anti-Timmer, or how I could defend against that. And as I said, I don;t plan on defending against it tonight. I plan on cracking a bottle of wine & maybe watching some old GoT.

Linki, I think CC suspected him probably. Isn't that how it usually works?

Which post are you responding to? I am confused about the context here.

I was, in fact, forced to vote for Bullzeye on Day 3 (along with being forced to speak of timmer). I just never said so myself, so it's curious for people to claim that I was.

Metalmarsh89 wrote:You said you had early BTSC with him right? Perhaps you have more insight than the rest of us.

Timmer and I had BTSC with DH at the same time on Day 2. He wasn't very talkative but I've come to expect that from DH after our BTSC in Death Note, he would disappear for a couple days and then come back later. We had actually just met up a second time after the lightning strike when he was suddenly killed

I don't know why Cold targeted him but I had no read on him. I didn't think he was bad though. Did Roxy suspect DH?

Turnip Head wrote:

Metalmarsh89 wrote:You said you had early BTSC with him right? Perhaps you have more insight than the rest of us.

Timmer and I had BTSC with DH at the same time on Day 2. He wasn't very talkative but I've come to expect that from DH after our BTSC in Death Note, he would disappear for a couple days and then come back later. We had actually just met up a second time after the lightning strike when he was suddenly killed

I don't know why Cold targeted him but I had no read on him. I didn't think he was bad though. Did Roxy suspect DH?

I haven't checked yet, but that was Bass's claim. He said that Roxy suspected Epignosis, who then died. She then suspected DH, who subsequently died.

I'm moving my vote to Bass for the time being.

S~V~S wrote:

thellama73 wrote:After much thought, I've decided to give young master Bass a break today and see what tomorrow brings. I might learn something during the night. Instead, I am giving my vote to SVS, to shake her out of her slumber and see what that does. I am starting to have a sneaking suspicion that we are seeing a very tricksy SVS pulling the wool over all of our eyes.

The VS in her name stands for "versus" and implies an adversarial relationship.

MY SLUMBER?? MY NON VERBAL NEICES FUCKING APPENDIX BURST. My sister lives in another state and the entire family was in an uproar. You know what, maybe you should lynch me. One less civvie role for Timmer to claim that he is.

SVS means Sit Vincent Sit, not any other snarky meaning you think is amusing.

Well I obviously didn't know that at the time. I'm sorry to hear about your niece.

Metalmarsh89 wrote:I'm moving my vote to Bass for the time being.

Why are you voing me? Did I miss your reason?

Bass_the_Clever wrote:

Metalmarsh89 wrote:I'm moving my vote to Bass for the time being.

Why are you voing me? Did I miss your reason?

Because I had to move it to someone.

And probably not, I didn't give one.

Metalmarsh89 wrote:

Bass_the_Clever wrote:

Metalmarsh89 wrote:I'm moving my vote to Bass for the time being.

Why are you voing me? Did I miss your reason?

Because I had to move it to someone.

And probably not, I didn't give one.

Oh ok.

I'm moving my vote to MP because SVS yelled at me.

And also because he is always bad.

I've been insanely busy, so I can't address all concerns just yet, but I am taking a break from SAS studying and wanted to say a few things.

First off, I'm really sorry to hear about your niece, S~V~S. That said, I had absolutely no intentions of upsetting you and I didn't "know" or even consider that anything I posted in this game would upset you. Instead of bringing that into the thread, please, if you have a problem with a post I have made, can we resolve it outside of the thread?

TH, I made that post because I am baffled that people continually are analyzing this game in terms of "civvies" and such. There are only 6 "civvie" roles to begin with, and they aren't even civvies, they're just a faction that opposes the New Rogues, and vice versa. This is a fact. I don't understand why we're approaching the game with a conventional mindset.

I also am voting S~V~S because she defended herself by saying "one less civvie role that Timmer can claim", yet she seems to be believing timmer recently, and I find them to be contradictory statements.

I very likely could change my mind once I have more proper time, but I wanted to vote in case I don't get that time before the vote ends.