The Syndicate

You mentioned Wilgy again MP.

I'm with Mac in that Wilgy could've simply assumed Scotty was Robin, but I don't suspect Scotty either way so it's moot.

sig wrote:You mentioned Wilgy again MP.

Dom asked the thread about it.

MovingPictures07 wrote:Dom, the theory is that:

1) DrWilgy is Robin.
2) Because DrWilgy was in danger of being lynched, he stopped the lynch.
3) However, despite he and Scotty being publicly tied, somehow Scotty was the one that was supposed to die.
4) Because of that, Robin "saves" Scotty by stopping the lynch. If you look at Robin's role, you'll see he can stop the lynch once for himself and one other time for someone else. When stopping for someone else, he "saves" that person and learns their role.
5) DrWilgy then comes into the thread, after the lynch is over, and strongly implores us not to lynch Scotty, implying that, if he was Robin, he must have saved Scotty and got a civilian check from him.
6) Therefore, Scotty is a civilian, as long as DrWilgy was Robin.

Hmm...

My confusion comes in in step 3. Why do we think that's true?

sig wrote:

juliets wrote:

Enrique wrote: I'm assuming this is what happened

Anyone who targets The Joker will be made insane by the toxic flower on his lapel. He needs Batman, Gordon, Falcone, and Maroni dead. *Secrets*

You know what's great about that? Not only do crazy people know who the Joker is, but it narrows down their possible roles by a lot.

So it's not a good look for Matt either way, but I was hoping he could give us a better lynch option for today.

Enrique, i lost you here. Why would someone who is insanified know who the Joker is and why does it narrow down their possible roles?[/quote

@Juliets.

"The Joker
Anyone who targets The Joker will be made insane by the toxic flower on his lapel. He needs Batman, Gordon, Falcone, and Maroni dead. *Secrets*"

Oh dang, I read the role wrong. Thanks sig.

MP, I have a lot of people in no man's land right now. I do read zebra as civ as well as DH and Mac and Dom. It must be said though that Mac and DH fooled the crap out of me in GOC so my civ reads are necessarily wobbly on them. I have a warning sign for Bass but then he hasn't been around lately for me to get a better feel for and it was a weak warning sign.

MovingPictures07 wrote:

sig wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:
Re: sig, I get a nervous feeling from some of sig's posts, and I felt like he was dwelling a lot on the "why did Wilgy die?", seemed like unnecessary WIFOM to me. I also think Turnip Head's observation regarding why sig didn't mention the suspicion was an astute point.

I mentioned it yes, but so did you? In fact one could say your role hunting for robin if he is still alive.

@Matt do you think you where cursed by someone or you did something like target someone and that got you cursed?

linki: Stop posting when I'm trying to submit.

Yeah, but IIRC you kept pressing the topic. I'll go back and look when I get the chance to see if I'm misremembering how much you talked about it. And I'm not sure how one could say that; elaborate for me.

Hey sig, why don't you explain this for me? How am I hunting for Robin?

Dom wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:Dom, the theory is that:

1) DrWilgy is Robin.
2) Because DrWilgy was in danger of being lynched, he stopped the lynch.
3) However, despite he and Scotty being publicly tied, somehow Scotty was the one that was supposed to die.
4) Because of that, Robin "saves" Scotty by stopping the lynch. If you look at Robin's role, you'll see he can stop the lynch once for himself and one other time for someone else. When stopping for someone else, he "saves" that person and learns their role.
5) DrWilgy then comes into the thread, after the lynch is over, and strongly implores us not to lynch Scotty, implying that, if he was Robin, he must have saved Scotty and got a civilian check from him.
6) Therefore, Scotty is a civilian, as long as DrWilgy was Robin.

Hmm...

My confusion comes in in step 3. Why do we think that's true?

Well, it's inferred based on Wilgy's behavior in Step 5. Without that, then I wouldn't say I necessarily think 3) is true.

MovingPictures07 wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:

sig wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:
Re: sig, I get a nervous feeling from some of sig's posts, and I felt like he was dwelling a lot on the "why did Wilgy die?", seemed like unnecessary WIFOM to me. I also think Turnip Head's observation regarding why sig didn't mention the suspicion was an astute point.

I mentioned it yes, but so did you? In fact one could say your role hunting for robin if he is still alive.

@Matt do you think you where cursed by someone or you did something like target someone and that got you cursed?

linki: Stop posting when I'm trying to submit.

Yeah, but IIRC you kept pressing the topic. I'll go back and look when I get the chance to see if I'm misremembering how much you talked about it. And I'm not sure how one could say that; elaborate for me.

Hey sig, why don't you explain this for me? How am I hunting for Robin?

By potentially outing him to the thread for no practical purpose?

sig please address my recent post addressed to you. You mischaracterized my play, I deserve to know that you have at least acknowledged my response.

Enrique wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:

sig wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:
Re: sig, I get a nervous feeling from some of sig's posts, and I felt like he was dwelling a lot on the "why did Wilgy die?", seemed like unnecessary WIFOM to me. I also think Turnip Head's observation regarding why sig didn't mention the suspicion was an astute point.

I mentioned it yes, but so did you? In fact one could say your role hunting for robin if he is still alive.

@Matt do you think you where cursed by someone or you did something like target someone and that got you cursed?

linki: Stop posting when I'm trying to submit.

Yeah, but IIRC you kept pressing the topic. I'll go back and look when I get the chance to see if I'm misremembering how much you talked about it. And I'm not sure how one could say that; elaborate for me.

Hey sig, why don't you explain this for me? How am I hunting for Robin?

By potentially outing him to the thread for no practical purpose?

But if Wilgy was Robin, he's dead. It doesn't matter. I'm speculating that Scotty could be a civilian, which is of practical purpose, given he almost fucking died yesterday, and clearly had lynch momentum to go forward. I could have just saved us a mislynch.

Knock knock.

Enrique - Who's there?

Matt - Enrique

Enrique - Enrique who?

Matt - Enrique, he who goes for the easy lynch target, and just in case that doesn't work, target paints the hell out of them.

Linki

Knock knock.

Who's there?

LOL

LOL who

LOL @ Enrique accusing MP of what Enrique quite literally just did to me.

Scotty do you feel as if MP is doing you a favor?

Matt wrote:Knock knock.

Enrique - Who's there?

Matt - Enrique

Enrique - Enrique who?

Matt - Enrique, he who goes for the easy lynch target, and just in case that doesn't work, target paints the hell out of them.

Linki

Knock knock.

Who's there?

LOL

LOL who

LOL @ Enrique accusing MP of what Enrique quite literally just did to me.

Except you're not a civvie so I don't care?

I mentioned Wilgy's death three times. You've mentioned him and your robin theory naming him directly seven times.

Yes Enriques got it MP, you keep mentioning him about lynch saving it seems like you are fishing.

@TH okay let me find it.

Renee(possibly Matt) targeted the Joker, becoming insane. I don´t know if the ability still works on the Joker or not, but if it doesn´t and nobody is silenced then Matt has to be Renee. It all depends on whether or not the Joker is still hit by the ability, but his role description doesn´t explain it.

This could go for any other role where the effect is easy to spot, though I don´t recall any other role where that is the case.

Im going to ask:

@Hosts: Is the Joker still hit by the ability that targeted him, even if he made the source insane?

Christ this linki.

sig wrote:I mentioned Wilgy's death three times. You've mentioned him and your robin theory naming him directly seven times.

Yes Enriques got it MP, you keep mentioning him about lynch saving it seems like you are fishing.

@TH okay let me find it.

Fishing for what? What the hell are you talking about?

Nerolunar wrote:Renee(possibly Matt) targeted the Joker, becoming insane. I don´t know if the ability still works on the Joker or not, but if it doesn´t and nobody is silenced then Matt has to be Renee. It all depends on whether or not the Joker is still hit by the ability, but his role description doesn´t explain it.

This could go for any other role where the effect is easy to spot, though I don´t recall any other role where that is the case.

Im going to ask:

@Hosts: Is the Joker still hit by the ability that targeted him, even if he made the source insane?

Christ this linki.

Not true? There are three different role blocking instances every night, and nothing to indicate the Joker is immune to everything.

Knock knock.

Who's there?

Everyone.

Everyone who?

Everyone, including Enrique and Nero, stop target painting the fuck out of me, please.

MovingPictures07 wrote:

Dom wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:Dom, the theory is that:

1) DrWilgy is Robin.
2) Because DrWilgy was in danger of being lynched, he stopped the lynch.
3) However, despite he and Scotty being publicly tied, somehow Scotty was the one that was supposed to die.
4) Because of that, Robin "saves" Scotty by stopping the lynch. If you look at Robin's role, you'll see he can stop the lynch once for himself and one other time for someone else. When stopping for someone else, he "saves" that person and learns their role.
5) DrWilgy then comes into the thread, after the lynch is over, and strongly implores us not to lynch Scotty, implying that, if he was Robin, he must have saved Scotty and got a civilian check from him.
6) Therefore, Scotty is a civilian, as long as DrWilgy was Robin.

Hmm...

My confusion comes in in step 3. Why do we think that's true?

Well, it's inferred based on Wilgy's behavior in Step 5. Without that, then I wouldn't say I necessarily think 3) is true.

Hm... I'll have to think about it. That IS the only lynch save we know of.

Someone explain to me how speculating on Wilgy being Robin is a bad thing, because if no one had said anything, and we lynched Scotty today and he flipped civilian, then what are we doing? We're handing the game away, that's what we're doing.

Matt absolutely no one is gonna kill you for having the option of being one civ vs a trillion baddies.

MovingPictures07 wrote:Someone explain to me how speculating on Wilgy being Robin is a bad thing, because if no one had said anything, and we lynched Scotty today and he flipped civilian, then what are we doing? We're handing the game away, that's what we're doing.

I don't see anyone going after Scotty like... at all.

Enrique wrote:Matt absolutely no one is gonna kill you for having the option of being one civ vs a trillion baddies.

Knock knock.

Who's there?

He bad.

He bad who?

Enrique obvi. Target painting mofo.

Turnip Head wrote:

sig wrote:I'm not sure about TH first he tried to get me lynched and that didn't pan out, so he switched to Scotty on flimsy reasons.

We cleared up our misunderstanding sig and I dropped it, do you think that was a disingenuous move on my part (by characterizing it as "didn't pan out")? And I never switched to Scotty If you're talking about Wilgy, you can call my reasons flimsy if you want to. I don't see anyone else coming out with bulletproof cases on Day 1.

Oh I thought you focused on Wilgy then voted for Scotty? Sorry about that. No I don't think it was disingenuous, I used poor wording there. What do you think of MP bringing up your case on me?

linki: Fishing for Robin's identity. If Wilgy isn't Robin, then someone else is and you are thinking they stopped the lynch so either it is Scotty or a third unknown who stopped the lynch. You seem to be talking about it an awful lot and fishing for information about Robin. If Robin is a third person and neither Scotty or Wilgy then he might be inclined to hint such in the thread even if they didn't do anything. It seems to be like your focusing just a little bit to much on Robin. While at the same time accusing me of focusing on Wilgy's death to much even though you are doing the same and attempting to figure out a pro civ roles.

linki: I don't think Scotty is on the table as a major lynch candidate at all today?

How is he target painting?

This thread is nuts today.

Im still just brainstorming. I can´t claim this to be true at all, but exercising ideas can´t possibly hurt.

Im not trying to stir up trouble or anything, I don´t want you guys to interpret it that way.

Enrique wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:Someone explain to me how speculating on Wilgy being Robin is a bad thing, because if no one had said anything, and we lynched Scotty today and he flipped civilian, then what are we doing? We're handing the game away, that's what we're doing.

I don't see anyone going after Scotty like... at all.

And what's your point? If I'm right, then he almost died yesterday, and would have if it wasn't for Robin. Does that mean I shouldn't have said anything? I'm not running any risks. Civilians should lay everything out there; what good can we do if we keep everything to ourselves?

You of all people should agree with this, I would think.

We don't know for sure if it was robin or not though, and laying out the information is different then the amount of focus your putting on Robin imo.

sig wrote:

Turnip Head wrote:

sig wrote:I'm not sure about TH first he tried to get me lynched and that didn't pan out, so he switched to Scotty on flimsy reasons.

We cleared up our misunderstanding sig and I dropped it, do you think that was a disingenuous move on my part (by characterizing it as "didn't pan out")? And I never switched to Scotty If you're talking about Wilgy, you can call my reasons flimsy if you want to. I don't see anyone else coming out with bulletproof cases on Day 1.

Oh I thought you focused on Wilgy then voted for Scotty? Sorry about that. No I don't think it was disingenuous, I used poor wording there. What do you think of MP bringing up your case on me?

linki: Fishing for Robin's identity. If Wilgy isn't Robin, then someone else is and you are thinking they stopped the lynch so either it is Scotty or a third unknown who stopped the lynch. You seem to be talking about it an awful lot and fishing for information about Robin. If Robin is a third person and neither Scotty or Wilgy then he might be inclined to hint such in the thread even if they didn't do anything. It seems to be like your focusing just a little bit to much on Robin. While at the same time accusing me of focusing on Wilgy's death to much even though you are doing the same and attempting to figure out a pro civ roles.

linki: I don't think Scotty is on the table as a major lynch candidate at all today?

How can you misuse the word "disingenuous"? That's a bad look.

I'm not speculating on anyone else other than Wilgy, and I'm not fishing for any information other than my theory. You're the one fishing. Right now.

You're looking pretty bad to me now, sig.

MovingPictures07 wrote:

Enrique wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:Someone explain to me how speculating on Wilgy being Robin is a bad thing, because if no one had said anything, and we lynched Scotty today and he flipped civilian, then what are we doing? We're handing the game away, that's what we're doing.

I don't see anyone going after Scotty like... at all.

And what's your point? If I'm right, then he almost died yesterday, and would have if it wasn't for Robin. Does that mean I shouldn't have said anything? I'm not running any risks. Civilians should lay everything out there; what good can we do if we keep everything to ourselves?

You of all people should agree with this, I would think.

I think the rest of us are just as capable of making connections, not to mention, Scotty only got 4 votes yesterday. That's a far cry from a majority

Nero, if Matt flips Mafia I'm gonna remember you.

sig wrote:We don't know for sure if it was robin or not though, and laying out the information is different then the amount of focus your putting on Robin imo.

You think I'm bad for this? Then vote for me. You haven't accused me once; you just keep saying over and over that I'm dwelling too much on it. Yeah, I'm dwelling on it, because I believe it's true, and I think we have strong reason to believe that it's true. And I think you're being manipulative right now.

I'm voting you.

I think sig was saved yesterday. Let's lynch him.

sig wrote:

Turnip Head wrote:

sig wrote:I'm not sure about TH first he tried to get me lynched and that didn't pan out, so he switched to Scotty on flimsy reasons.

We cleared up our misunderstanding sig and I dropped it, do you think that was a disingenuous move on my part (by characterizing it as "didn't pan out")? And I never switched to Scotty If you're talking about Wilgy, you can call my reasons flimsy if you want to. I don't see anyone else coming out with bulletproof cases on Day 1.

Oh I thought you focused on Wilgy then voted for Scotty? Sorry about that. No I don't think it was disingenuous, I used poor wording there. What do you think of MP bringing up your case on me?

I think it's clear that he didn't read any of the follow-up to that case but I can't judge him for that, I'm the one who told him not to waste his time reading the whole thread.

MP do we even need this conversation at all when no one cares for Scotty anymore? I think sig has a point.

MovingPictures07 wrote:

sig wrote:

Turnip Head wrote:

sig wrote:I'm not sure about TH first he tried to get me lynched and that didn't pan out, so he switched to Scotty on flimsy reasons.

We cleared up our misunderstanding sig and I dropped it, do you think that was a disingenuous move on my part (by characterizing it as "didn't pan out")? And I never switched to Scotty If you're talking about Wilgy, you can call my reasons flimsy if you want to. I don't see anyone else coming out with bulletproof cases on Day 1.

Oh I thought you focused on Wilgy then voted for Scotty? Sorry about that. No I don't think it was disingenuous, I used poor wording there. What do you think of MP bringing up your case on me?

linki: Fishing for Robin's identity. If Wilgy isn't Robin, then someone else is and you are thinking they stopped the lynch so either it is Scotty or a third unknown who stopped the lynch. You seem to be talking about it an awful lot and fishing for information about Robin. If Robin is a third person and neither Scotty or Wilgy then he might be inclined to hint such in the thread even if they didn't do anything. It seems to be like your focusing just a little bit to much on Robin. While at the same time accusing me of focusing on Wilgy's death to much even though you are doing the same and attempting to figure out a pro civ roles.

linki: I don't think Scotty is on the table as a major lynch candidate at all today?

How can you misuse the word "disingenuous"? That's a bad look.

I'm not speculating on anyone else other than Wilgy, and I'm not fishing for any information other than my theory. You're the one fishing. Right now.

You're looking pretty bad to me now, sig.

Read the posts you're replying to, MP. "Disingenuous" was MY word.

Enrique wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:

Enrique wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:Someone explain to me how speculating on Wilgy being Robin is a bad thing, because if no one had said anything, and we lynched Scotty today and he flipped civilian, then what are we doing? We're handing the game away, that's what we're doing.

I don't see anyone going after Scotty like... at all.

And what's your point? If I'm right, then he almost died yesterday, and would have if it wasn't for Robin. Does that mean I shouldn't have said anything? I'm not running any risks. Civilians should lay everything out there; what good can we do if we keep everything to ourselves?

You of all people should agree with this, I would think.

I think the rest of us are just as capable of making connections, not to mention, Scotty only got 4 votes yesterday. That's a far cry from a majority

Nero, if Matt flips Mafia I'm gonna remember you.

That's ridiculous logic, Enrique. If "the rest of us" are capable at making connections, then why should civilians share their thoughts on any connections, even suspicious? The rest of us can figure it out, right? Give me a break.

Wait your voting for me since I was saved? This is rich for what reasons? Since I mentioned Wilgy less then you or since I said you are fishing for information? Why are you freaking out so much that your threatening to vote for me and saying I should vote for you simply since I voiced some suspicion of you?

You are sounding unhinged. Also please explain how I was "saved" when nobody minus two players suspected me? You tried to run TH case against me that didn't work so know your making up other reasons.

Turnip Head wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:

sig wrote:

Turnip Head wrote:

sig wrote:I'm not sure about TH first he tried to get me lynched and that didn't pan out, so he switched to Scotty on flimsy reasons.

We cleared up our misunderstanding sig and I dropped it, do you think that was a disingenuous move on my part (by characterizing it as "didn't pan out")? And I never switched to Scotty If you're talking about Wilgy, you can call my reasons flimsy if you want to. I don't see anyone else coming out with bulletproof cases on Day 1.

Oh I thought you focused on Wilgy then voted for Scotty? Sorry about that. No I don't think it was disingenuous, I used poor wording there. What do you think of MP bringing up your case on me?

linki: Fishing for Robin's identity. If Wilgy isn't Robin, then someone else is and you are thinking they stopped the lynch so either it is Scotty or a third unknown who stopped the lynch. You seem to be talking about it an awful lot and fishing for information about Robin. If Robin is a third person and neither Scotty or Wilgy then he might be inclined to hint such in the thread even if they didn't do anything. It seems to be like your focusing just a little bit to much on Robin. While at the same time accusing me of focusing on Wilgy's death to much even though you are doing the same and attempting to figure out a pro civ roles.

linki: I don't think Scotty is on the table as a major lynch candidate at all today?

How can you misuse the word "disingenuous"? That's a bad look.

I'm not speculating on anyone else other than Wilgy, and I'm not fishing for any information other than my theory. You're the one fishing. Right now.

You're looking pretty bad to me now, sig.

Read the posts you're replying to, MP. "Disingenuous" was MY word.

I stand corrected, thanks.

... my point is that Scotty wasn't/isn't in any danger. Don't take this as an attack, I'm disagreeing with you and telling you why the case against you right now is valid.

sig wrote:How is he target painting?

Knock knock.

Who's there?

Enrique

Enrique who?

The easy lynch target guy who is accusing me, and if that doesn't pan out, has target painted me by pointing out who else I could be and either way, he obvi wants me gone regardless.

sig wrote:Wait your voting for me since I was saved? This is rich for what reasons? Since I mentioned Wilgy less then you or since I said you are fishing for information? Why are you freaking out so much that your threatening to vote for me and saying I should vote for you simply since I voiced some suspicion of you?

You are sounding unhinged. Also please explain how I was "saved" when nobody minus two players suspected me? You tried to run TH case against me that didn't work so know your making up other reasons.

You received attention and votes d1, but both Wilgy and Scotty received more votes than you. It's possible that you were saved.

If you think I'm bad, vote for me. I'm not making up reasons; now you're the one making stuff up and I feel better about my vote.

And as to casting my vote now, I'm going to be busy the rest of today and have a pretty full day tomorrow, so I'm not even sure when I'd have been back to vote. I feel good enough about voting for you.

sig wrote:We don't know for sure if it was robin or not though, and laying out the information is different then the amount of focus your putting on Robin imo.

How exactly is talking about Robin "laying our information"? Most people advocate that Wilgy was Robin and he is dead. What happened last night is still a mystery and it´s not going to solve itself. Every lynch and NK should be used to gather information and to eventually arrive at conclusions. Being stale and avoiding burning subjects is far worse.

Linki @Enrique I understand your concern.

Lots of linki.

Enrique wrote:... my point is that Scotty wasn't/isn't in any danger. Don't take this as an attack, I'm disagreeing with you and telling you why the case against you right now is valid.

But you don't even know that. No one can predict who is going to be "in danger" at any given time. That's ridiculous.

Matt wrote:

sig wrote:How is he target painting?

Knock knock.

Who's there?

Enrique

Enrique who?

The easy lynch target guy who is accusing me, and if that doesn't pan out, has target painted me by pointing out who else I could be and either way, he obvi wants me gone regardless.

Do you think it's at all possible that we live in a world where Enrique genuinely thinks you're bad?

I don't even necessarily agree that Scott/Wilgy had to be Robin, but after what happened, Scotty was NOT more likely to be lynched.

@MP: Scotty and Wilgy had 3 votes when Zebra and I voted sig. Then they each received one more. I tried to get some momentum against sig but the thread at large didn't care. I think he's really stubborn and goes great lengths to justify bad logic, but he's not wrong right now.

Enrique, I have to leave in a few minutes, and I barely will be back the rest of the day. I didn't even know I'd be here this morning. When I had my thought last night, who's to say Scotty wouldn't have been lynched today? What benefit would I have had to keep that theory to myself?

And now I feel like I've said what I need to say on the matter. If anyone thinks I'm suspicious for it, so be it. But I'm fine with my vote being on sig for reasons I previously stated, as well as his behavior today regarding this Wilgy stuff. Go back and read it, he really wanted to talk about it, and now he's saying I'm talking too much about it, but he won't commit to it with a vote, or even an accusation of me. He's a fine vote for today in my opinion.

I don't really have any more time, so I'll be back at some point. Not sure when.

Turnip Head wrote:

Matt wrote:

sig wrote:How is he target painting?

Knock knock.

Who's there?

Enrique

Enrique who?

The easy lynch target guy who is accusing me, and if that doesn't pan out, has target painted me by pointing out who else I could be and either way, he obvi wants me gone regardless.

Do you think it's at all possible that we live in a world where Enrique genuinely thinks you're bad?

Knock knock.

Who's there?

Easy lynch!

Easy lynch who?

Easy lynch, target painting!

Turnip Head wrote:

Matt wrote:

sig wrote:How is he target painting?

Knock knock.

Who's there?

Enrique

Enrique who?

The easy lynch target guy who is accusing me, and if that doesn't pan out, has target painted me by pointing out who else I could be and either way, he obvi wants me gone regardless.

Do you think it's at all possible that we live in a world where Enrique genuinely thinks you're bad?

Knock knock.

Who's there?

Yes

Yes who?

Yes I believe it's a possibility but he was also clearly target painting me in case I'm not lynched, THEN accuses MP of doing the same thing he's doing to me, ergo Enrique bad.

You see, TH, I'm making sure the baddies kill him by capitalizing on how easily he can get lynched. It makes perfect sense.