The Syndicate

Before I do, this is a summary of my current inclination.

I feel okay about these ppl

Jackofhearts2005
Lunalee
Quin
karavalenge
JaggedJimmyJay

I feel unsure about these people

DharmaHelper
Speedchuck 2.0
Glorfindel
Sloonei

I am skeptical of these people

poutanko
sprityo
Epignosis
nutella

I am suspicious of these people

Long Con
timmer
ColinIsCool

Jesus every single post on this page looks suspicious as fuck. Good on y'all for getting me to stop townreading everyone.

nutella wrote: ↑Sun Nov 04, 2018 10:41 pm Jesus every single post on this page looks suspicious as fuck. Good on y'all for getting me to stop townreading everyone.

It's mostly just me who you were already scum reading so I dunno what you expected.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Sun Nov 04, 2018 10:43 pm

nutella wrote: ↑Sun Nov 04, 2018 10:41 pm Jesus every single post on this page looks suspicious as fuck. Good on y'all for getting me to stop townreading everyone.

It's mostly just me who you were already scum reading so I dunno what you expected.

It's everyone else too though. But I agree with Quin about Colin, and with you and Jay that Colin's non-interaction with inh is a bad look. LC's skeptical theory about Colin raised my eyebrow but my suspicion of Colin is stronger than my doubt by the end of the page. [VOTE: colin] aubergine

MacDougall wrote: ↑Sun Nov 04, 2018 7:51 pm

Long Con wrote: ↑Sun Nov 04, 2018 7:47 pm

nutella wrote: ↑Sun Nov 04, 2018 7:23 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sun Nov 04, 2018 7:15 pm We have three replacements. Everyone tell me about them.

Sloonei is town. Sprityo and speed2.0 haven't done anything yet. I have a reason to think that speed2.0's player slot is town. I don't have any reason to think sprityo is town.

Sloonei townslipped. Sprityo has said nothing. Speed 2.0 has suspicion of Glorf and nutella, which I think is pretty healthy. I see from his ISO that he is the one who already called out nutella's Player Salad post, and that puts him a little in the green, salad pun intended.

Sloonei townslipped eh? I missed that.

I did not, though I am indeed town.

timmer wrote: ↑Sun Nov 04, 2018 8:47 pm Skimming through to catch up... Mac's focus on the chance that we are not in fact down two dead baddies is interesting, to say the least, but I'm not sure where to go with it . I'll admit I'm at a loss in the game right now... my suspicions have flopped, my thoughts on lc last night make no sense to me now, I'm going to watch the pats/packers game and then regroup later tonight.

[VOTE: timmer] aubergine

townslips aren't real guys

I thought the not knowing INH was dead was townslippy. I guess a teammate could forget that their teammate died... or that theory about faking baddiness when killing. I saw that Jack disagrees.

nutella wrote: ↑Sun Nov 04, 2018 10:46 pm

MacDougall wrote: ↑Sun Nov 04, 2018 10:43 pm

nutella wrote: ↑Sun Nov 04, 2018 10:41 pm Jesus every single post on this page looks suspicious as fuck. Good on y'all for getting me to stop townreading everyone.

It's mostly just me who you were already scum reading so I dunno what you expected.

It's everyone else too though. But I agree with Quin about Colin, and with you and Jay that Colin's non-interaction with inh is a bad look. LC's skeptical theory about Colin raised my eyebrow but my suspicion of Colin is stronger than my doubt by the end of the page. [VOTE: colin] aubergine

Less a theory, more trying to understand his motivations for requesting a lynch with the instant rez promised. Why do you think he said that?

MacDougall wrote: ↑Sun Nov 04, 2018 9:03 pm This was one of my favourite recent posts. Russ absolutely nailed someone with this.

Russtifinko wrote: ↑Wed Aug 15, 2018 9:39 pm
1. MP will remember that in high school English class, Mr. Goldfuss once told us about an analysis that was done on Hitler's speeches. A univeristy group had apparently analyzed a large number of them line by line and found that nearly every one had a net "opinion content" (I'm paraphrasing here) of 0. What they meant was, every time Hitler expressed an opinion in a speech, he offset it by saying the opposite thing with about the same intensity somewhere else in the speech. This made him very appealing, because everyone in a crowd could find something to agree with him about. (Mr. Goldfuss was weird, and recommended we try to follow this model for some speeches.) Mr. Goldfuss also lied a lot, and it's possible he made up that story entirely, but the core of it applies really well to some posts by Alien. Let's play a game: I'll post an Alien quote, highlight anything where he expresses a positive opinion in green, and highlight anything with a negative opinion in red. I think we'll find quite a few offsetting posts.

Yeah these are pretty much the exact words that are being signified by my sirengif. timmer says nothing but introduces several things that he could say something about. Also describes a thing as "interesting" without expanding on that at all.

I was reading the last few pages to see if I could be convinced to vote for nutella. I could not.

nutella wrote: ↑Sun Nov 04, 2018 10:41 pm Jesus every single post on this page looks suspicious as fuck. Good on y'all for getting me to stop townreading everyone.

Every time I think "actually, she's probably town" you just come in brazenly and say something that is so bogus I can't see it as genuine. This has happened like five times since the beginning of the thread.

Good arguments against Timmer and Colin. Primo garbo in there probably. Mac is town.

Once again, I'll be in the thread tomorrow. I was just catching up before bed. Wanna hear more about Mac's LC suspish.

Fwiw, I count at least one other thing Sloonei said as a "townslip" unrelated to his not realizing INH was dead. Doesn't matter though.

[mention]nutella[/mention], do you have any degree of suspicion of timmer?

speedchuck wrote: ↑Sun Nov 04, 2018 11:10 pm

nutella wrote: ↑Sun Nov 04, 2018 10:41 pm Jesus every single post on this page looks suspicious as fuck. Good on y'all for getting me to stop townreading everyone.

Every time I think "actually, she's probably town" you just come in brazenly and say something that is so bogus I can't see it as genuine. This has happened like five times since the beginning of the thread.

How is it bogus? Did you read that page? I was pinged by so many different things there. Making dinner rn but I can compile a list in a bit.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sun Nov 04, 2018 11:12 pm nutella, do you have any degree of suspicion of timmer?

Yes. The main factor that had been giving me pause in suspecting him was his thingy about Bullzeye the other day, but with how further discussion of that played out I suppose it's not a real reason to think he is town, and he looks pretty bad otherwise.

nutella wrote: ↑Sun Nov 04, 2018 11:14 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sun Nov 04, 2018 11:12 pm nutella, do you have any degree of suspicion of timmer?

Yes. The main factor that had been giving me pause in suspecting him was his thingy about Bullzeye the other day, but with how further discussion of that played out I suppose it's not a real reason to think he is town, and he looks pretty bad otherwise.

I don't understand anything about Bullzeye. What can you tell me?

nutella wrote: ↑Sun Nov 04, 2018 11:13 pm

speedchuck wrote: ↑Sun Nov 04, 2018 11:10 pm

nutella wrote: ↑Sun Nov 04, 2018 10:41 pm Jesus every single post on this page looks suspicious as fuck. Good on y'all for getting me to stop townreading everyone.

Every time I think "actually, she's probably town" you just come in brazenly and say something that is so bogus I can't see it as genuine. This has happened like five times since the beginning of the thread.

How is it bogus? Did you read that page? I was pinged by so many different things there. Making dinner rn but I can compile a list in a bit.

Please do.

Going through Timmer's ISO, there's nothing that sets off my pingometer so far, but I got to this and I know it was asked and I think not answered...

timmer wrote: ↑Wed Oct 31, 2018 3:40 pm Just did a quick skim on lunch break. My day is consisting of grinding chunks of people into pulp, so time is short.

Timmer, can you maybe explain this? Probably have to vote you if this isn't clarified... you know, due to some predictable moral outrage.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sun Nov 04, 2018 11:15 pm

nutella wrote: ↑Sun Nov 04, 2018 11:14 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sun Nov 04, 2018 11:12 pm nutella, do you have any degree of suspicion of timmer?

Yes. The main factor that had been giving me pause in suspecting him was his thingy about Bullzeye the other day, but with how further discussion of that played out I suppose it's not a real reason to think he is town, and he looks pretty bad otherwise.

I don't understand anything about Bullzeye. What can you tell me?

Nobody has disputed the suggestion that he vigged Nova.

speedchuck wrote: ↑Sun Nov 04, 2018 11:20 pm

nutella wrote: ↑Sun Nov 04, 2018 11:13 pm

speedchuck wrote: ↑Sun Nov 04, 2018 11:10 pm

nutella wrote: ↑Sun Nov 04, 2018 10:41 pm Jesus every single post on this page looks suspicious as fuck. Good on y'all for getting me to stop townreading everyone.

Every time I think "actually, she's probably town" you just come in brazenly and say something that is so bogus I can't see it as genuine. This has happened like five times since the beginning of the thread.

How is it bogus? Did you read that page? I was pinged by so many different things there. Making dinner rn but I can compile a list in a bit.

Please do.

Coming up

nutella wrote: ↑Sun Nov 04, 2018 11:37 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sun Nov 04, 2018 11:15 pm

nutella wrote: ↑Sun Nov 04, 2018 11:14 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sun Nov 04, 2018 11:12 pm nutella, do you have any degree of suspicion of timmer?

Yes. The main factor that had been giving me pause in suspecting him was his thingy about Bullzeye the other day, but with how further discussion of that played out I suppose it's not a real reason to think he is town, and he looks pretty bad otherwise.

I don't understand anything about Bullzeye. What can you tell me?

Nobody has disputed the suggestion that he vigged Nova.

I don't remember this. Who said it?

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sun Nov 04, 2018 11:47 pm

nutella wrote: ↑Sun Nov 04, 2018 11:37 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sun Nov 04, 2018 11:15 pm

nutella wrote: ↑Sun Nov 04, 2018 11:14 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sun Nov 04, 2018 11:12 pm nutella, do you have any degree of suspicion of timmer?

Yes. The main factor that had been giving me pause in suspecting him was his thingy about Bullzeye the other day, but with how further discussion of that played out I suppose it's not a real reason to think he is town, and he looks pretty bad otherwise.

I don't understand anything about Bullzeye. What can you tell me?

Nobody has disputed the suggestion that he vigged Nova.

I don't remember this. Who said it?

I also missed this.

My readthrough of Timmer's ISO left me feeling good about him. The most notable thing is the vouching for bullzeye, I think. I see some examples of this Hitler thing being tossed around, and that's a new one on me. Interested to see if it pans out.

We begin with a continuation from page 42 of a bizarre exchange between Mr. Jimmyjay and Mr. Dougall.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Sun Nov 04, 2018 8:26 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sun Nov 04, 2018 8:24 pm

MacDougall wrote: ↑Sun Nov 04, 2018 8:23 pm No, I didn't fuck up.

Notwithstanding that I never fuck up when I am Mafia. It's only when I am Mafia that I actually do meticulously proof my posts before I read them, and I never let myself angry post when I am Mafia. Not legitimately.

Every time I tell you I think scumslips are stupid, you tell me about how often you scumslip.

Well I don't know what to say. You've hounded civilian Mac into a situation where you've caught me out in a lie. Kudos, only you could accomplish such feats.

As we like to say in the profession, "I don't know what this is."


Then follows this delightfully inexplicable gem:

MacDougall wrote: ↑Sun Nov 04, 2018 8:42 pm

I have two different perspectives on this game that adjust my train of thought somewhat:

1. The scum team has Jay and/or nutella on it
2. The scum team does not

If I can figure out the truth of which of these is accurate it will go along way to me solving the game.

Why I am lumped in with Mr. Jimmyjay into a single "and/or" scenario is beyond the comprehension of even our most diligent scholars.

Next, we part ways with Mr. Dougall to encounter one of those stunning posts you occasionally have the fortune of seeing in the wild: the species of post that says absolutely nothing at all in more than fifty words.

timmer wrote: ↑Sun Nov 04, 2018 8:47 pm Skimming through to catch up... Mac's focus on the chance that we are not in fact down two dead baddies is interesting, to say the least, but I'm not sure where to go with it . I'll admit I'm at a loss in the game right now... my suspicions have flopped, my thoughts on lc last night make no sense to me now, I'm going to watch the pats/packers game and then regroup later tonight.

Mr. Dougall is the first to call this out, and despite his earlier gaffes is starting to look like one of the saner people in the room. However, I do not believe his comparison to Mr. Finko's "Hitler" tell completely checks out. There's no canceling out of opinions because there are no opinions to begin with. It is purely neutral from start to finish.

Scrolling down.

Quin wrote: ↑Sun Nov 04, 2018 9:15 pm

MacDougall wrote: ↑Sun Nov 04, 2018 9:03 pm This was one of my favourite recent posts. Russ absolutely nailed someone with this.

Russtifinko wrote: ↑Wed Aug 15, 2018 9:39 pm
1. MP will remember that in high school English class, Mr. Goldfuss once told us about an analysis that was done on Hitler's speeches. A univeristy group had apparently analyzed a large number of them line by line and found that nearly every one had a net "opinion content" (I'm paraphrasing here) of 0. What they meant was, every time Hitler expressed an opinion in a speech, he offset it by saying the opposite thing with about the same intensity somewhere else in the speech. This made him very appealing, because everyone in a crowd could find something to agree with him about. (Mr. Goldfuss was weird, and recommended we try to follow this model for some speeches.) Mr. Goldfuss also lied a lot, and it's possible he made up that story entirely, but the core of it applies really well to some posts by Alien. Let's play a game: I'll post an Alien quote, highlight anything where he expresses a positive opinion in green, and highlight anything with a negative opinion in red. I think we'll find quite a few offsetting posts.

I caught scum Fredwood this way in Phenon.

This post barely merits existing.

Then, my friends, the fun really begins.

ColinIsCool wrote: ↑Sun Nov 04, 2018 9:32 pm I’ll reiterate, to anybody who wants to lynch me ... go ahead. Just give me that Phoenix right afterward.

This is real spicy coming from the lad who just speculated that there are either no rezzes left in the hands of active living players or that they are in the hands of the mafia. Perhaps he knows that his teammates will save him.

Quin responds reasonably to this. Then:

Long Con wrote: ↑Sun Nov 04, 2018 10:07 pm Maybe he wants the perks that come with being a Confirmed Civ. He could reasonably expect protection from kills. I don't know, it's pretty weird. I'm sure the Phoenix Down owner has a plan, no need to "lynch a Civ" to get a good target. Maybe he's a baddie with the ability to appear Civ upon their lynch. Get lynched - look Civ - use up rez - PROFIT!!!

Mr. Con speaks bluntly here, simultaneously making Mr. Cool look villainous and deterring his lynch by implying that it's what the mafia want. A subtle scare tactic? Who can say?

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sun Nov 04, 2018 10:18 pm

MacDougall wrote: ↑Sun Nov 04, 2018 10:16 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sun Nov 04, 2018 10:12 pm

MacDougall wrote: ↑Sun Nov 04, 2018 10:08 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sun Nov 04, 2018 9:32 pm MacDougall, find the bad people and the good people.

INH interacts very little with scum teammates. It's his meta. He is not someone that dances around with wifom distancing tricks from what I have ever seen.

Who did he interact with exactly zero times?

Exactly zero
Colin
poutanko

Functionally zero if not literally
Bullzeye/speedchuck
MacDougall
Quin

So why is my interaction with him functionally zero and not Jack's which is almost identical in that it was a one emoji reply to a sarcastic insult? Like Jack and my interactions with INH were legitimately as identical as it can get without being literally identical.

Yeah him too.

Oh and then what do we have here? Mr. Jimmyjay conveniently forgets to include Mr. Hearts on a shit list? Perhaps I should listen to my earlier hunches about those two.


So there you have it. Basically in conclusion all of you are mafia and none of you are free of sin.

(okay, that was a fun exercise, and in doing it I guess there wasn't quite as much suspicious content as it felt like there was. I think my point about LC is the one most worth considering.)

Did someone in mafia BTSC chat ask nutella if she thought Bullz vigged nova.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sun Nov 04, 2018 11:47 pm

nutella wrote: ↑Sun Nov 04, 2018 11:37 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sun Nov 04, 2018 11:15 pm

nutella wrote: ↑Sun Nov 04, 2018 11:14 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sun Nov 04, 2018 11:12 pm nutella, do you have any degree of suspicion of timmer?

Yes. The main factor that had been giving me pause in suspecting him was his thingy about Bullzeye the other day, but with how further discussion of that played out I suppose it's not a real reason to think he is town, and he looks pretty bad otherwise.

I don't understand anything about Bullzeye. What can you tell me?

Nobody has disputed the suggestion that he vigged Nova.

I don't remember this. Who said it?

Nobody said it. It was implied. But maybe the person who would deny it didn't pick up on it?

DharmaHelper wrote: ↑Mon Nov 05, 2018 12:00 am Did someone in mafia BTSC chat ask nutella if she thought Bullz vigged nova.

No, I don't have BTSC. Reread my exchange with Timmer on the topic of Bullzeye. I was trying very carefully not to explicitly say what I thought he meant, but figured it'd be safe enough to come out and say by now.

Implied how and why would you expect anyone to refute an unspoken implication?

nutella wrote: ↑Mon Nov 05, 2018 12:00 am (okay, that was a fun exercise, and in doing it I guess there wasn't quite as much suspicious content as it felt like there was. I think my point about LC is the one most worth considering.)

Ok, you do it. Discuss reasons why Colin might do that.

nutella wrote: ↑Sun Nov 04, 2018 11:59 pm Oh and then what do we have here? Mr. Jimmyjay conveniently forgets to include Mr. Hearts on a shit list? Perhaps I should listen to my earlier hunches about those two.

Bleh. I scanned my own reviews quickly for those who had nothing on the INH end and overlooked one. I already called Jack red in the interaction, so kiss my arse.

DharmaHelper wrote: ↑Mon Nov 05, 2018 12:02 am Implied how and why would you expect anyone to refute an unspoken implication?

Sometimes I forget that other people aren't as smart as me and don't pick up on everything the same way I guess I also figured that if the person who vigged nova wasn't bullzeye they in particular might have protested the clearing of bullzeye, but who knows.

nutella wrote: ↑Mon Nov 05, 2018 12:02 am

DharmaHelper wrote: ↑Mon Nov 05, 2018 12:00 am Did someone in mafia BTSC chat ask nutella if she thought Bullz vigged nova.

No, I don't have BTSC. Reread my exchange with Timmer on the topic of Bullzeye. I was trying very carefully not to explicitly say what I thought he meant, but figured it'd be safe enough to come out and say by now.

Could you elaborate on what your read of timmer is right now?

nutella wrote: ↑Mon Nov 05, 2018 12:06 am

DharmaHelper wrote: ↑Mon Nov 05, 2018 12:02 am Implied how and why would you expect anyone to refute an unspoken implication?

Sometimes I forget that other people aren't as smart as me and don't pick up on everything the same way I guess I also figured that if the person who vigged nova wasn't bullzeye they in particular might have protested the clearing of bullzeye, but who knows.

U tryna usurp the Throne of Fuck Mountain

nutella wrote: ↑Mon Nov 05, 2018 12:06 am

DharmaHelper wrote: ↑Mon Nov 05, 2018 12:02 am Implied how and why would you expect anyone to refute an unspoken implication?

Sometimes I forget that other people aren't as smart as me and don't pick up on everything the same way I guess I also figured that if the person who vigged nova wasn't bullzeye they in particular might have protested the clearing of bullzeye, but who knows.

I thought the prevailing wisdom/case was that his nova vote was indicative of him being on nova's team. But you're saying he voted for nova and then vigged her? Or are you fishing for the actual vig, which is in itself pretty suspicioso. Mondo garbo, even.

I think I might just lynch sprityo. Thoroughly uninspiring entry into the game.

Long Con wrote: ↑Mon Nov 05, 2018 12:03 am

nutella wrote: ↑Mon Nov 05, 2018 12:00 am (okay, that was a fun exercise, and in doing it I guess there wasn't quite as much suspicious content as it felt like there was. I think my point about LC is the one most worth considering.)

Ok, you do it. Discuss reasons why Colin might do that.

Well he could be town wanting to get confirmed, but as Quin pointed out, why? He's barely even been suspected at all until now -- and what's more, he had just pointed out his fear that rezzes were either gone or in the wrong hands. If he's town he can't count on a rez, by his own admission. He can only rely on a rez if he's bad and knows his team has one. Whether he has some way to appear civ upon flip, or whether his team will rez him as a confirmed baddie, I can't say, but there doesn't really seem to be a town explanation.

nutella wrote: ↑Mon Nov 05, 2018 12:14 am

Long Con wrote: ↑Mon Nov 05, 2018 12:03 am

nutella wrote: ↑Mon Nov 05, 2018 12:00 am (okay, that was a fun exercise, and in doing it I guess there wasn't quite as much suspicious content as it felt like there was. I think my point about LC is the one most worth considering.)

Ok, you do it. Discuss reasons why Colin might do that.

Well he could be town wanting to get confirmed, but as Quin pointed out, why? He's barely even been suspected at all until now -- and what's more, he had just pointed out his fear that rezzes were either gone or in the wrong hands. If he's town he can't count on a rez, by his own admission. He can only rely on a rez if he's bad and knows his team has one. Whether he has some way to appear civ upon flip, or whether his team will rez him as a confirmed baddie, I can't say, but there doesn't really seem to be a town explanation.

Ok, thank you. That seems remarkably similar to my own post that is your top suspected post on the Page of Sin.

nutella wrote: ↑Sun Nov 04, 2018 11:59 pm big post with long con in it

I didn't get that subtle defence or whatever from LC at all. Dunno how you interpreted it that way.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Mon Nov 05, 2018 12:07 am

nutella wrote: ↑Mon Nov 05, 2018 12:02 am

DharmaHelper wrote: ↑Mon Nov 05, 2018 12:00 am Did someone in mafia BTSC chat ask nutella if she thought Bullz vigged nova.

No, I don't have BTSC. Reread my exchange with Timmer on the topic of Bullzeye. I was trying very carefully not to explicitly say what I thought he meant, but figured it'd be safe enough to come out and say by now.

Could you elaborate on what your read of timmer is right now?

I think the balance of his posts are pretty scummy. Also, I initially thought that he had tracked Bullzeye, but he denied that his townread of Bullzeye was influenced by any of his own actions and so instead I figured he was just guessing after the nova kill that bullzeye was responsible, which says nothing about timmer's alignment except that he had no shame in coming out with his strong townread of bullzeye after suspecting him on d1 -- which, even after I figured he hadn't tracked bullzeye or anything and was just guessing, I still chalked up as civ behavior for a while, but it could very easily not be. And if I don't have that reason to townread him, he otherwise looks pretty icky. TL;DR I suspect him

DharmaHelper wrote: ↑Mon Nov 05, 2018 12:11 am

nutella wrote: ↑Mon Nov 05, 2018 12:06 am

DharmaHelper wrote: ↑Mon Nov 05, 2018 12:02 am Implied how and why would you expect anyone to refute an unspoken implication?

Sometimes I forget that other people aren't as smart as me and don't pick up on everything the same way I guess I also figured that if the person who vigged nova wasn't bullzeye they in particular might have protested the clearing of bullzeye, but who knows.

I thought the prevailing wisdom/case was that his nova vote was indicative of him being on nova's team. But you're saying he voted for nova and then vigged her? Or are you fishing for the actual vig, which is in itself pretty suspicioso. Mondo garbo, even.

The case for bullzeye being nova's teammate prevailed for a little while but as far as I could tell it mostly died out after timmer came out swinging in his favor, which is sort of why I assumed other people started to guess the same thing that I did. And no, not trying to fish for the vig, I would rather not have this lead to anyone outing themself -- but, say, if a sudden compelling drive to lynch bullzeye were to appear I would not dismiss it.

Long Con wrote: ↑Mon Nov 05, 2018 12:17 am

nutella wrote: ↑Mon Nov 05, 2018 12:14 am

Long Con wrote: ↑Mon Nov 05, 2018 12:03 am

nutella wrote: ↑Mon Nov 05, 2018 12:00 am (okay, that was a fun exercise, and in doing it I guess there wasn't quite as much suspicious content as it felt like there was. I think my point about LC is the one most worth considering.)

Ok, you do it. Discuss reasons why Colin might do that.

Well he could be town wanting to get confirmed, but as Quin pointed out, why? He's barely even been suspected at all until now -- and what's more, he had just pointed out his fear that rezzes were either gone or in the wrong hands. If he's town he can't count on a rez, by his own admission. He can only rely on a rez if he's bad and knows his team has one. Whether he has some way to appear civ upon flip, or whether his team will rez him as a confirmed baddie, I can't say, but there doesn't really seem to be a town explanation.

Ok, thank you. That seems remarkably similar to my own post that is your top suspected post on the Page of Sin.

No, don't think so. You didn't point out the thing I did that if he's town he can't count on a rez. Your post painted much more of a bleak picture of a baddie fooling us all with a fake flip, and so I came out of your post interpreting more of an overall thesis of "don't lynch Colin he's tricking us" whereas I am saying we should just lynch him because he's bad and if he has a fake flip we'll just have to deal.

Quin wrote: ↑Mon Nov 05, 2018 12:19 am

nutella wrote: ↑Sun Nov 04, 2018 11:59 pm big post with long con in it

I didn't get that subtle defence or whatever from LC at all. Dunno how you interpreted it that way.

So anyway why isn't your vote on Colin? same goes for [mention]Long Con[/mention]

nutella wrote: ↑Mon Nov 05, 2018 12:25 am

DharmaHelper wrote: ↑Mon Nov 05, 2018 12:11 am

nutella wrote: ↑Mon Nov 05, 2018 12:06 am

DharmaHelper wrote: ↑Mon Nov 05, 2018 12:02 am Implied how and why would you expect anyone to refute an unspoken implication?

Sometimes I forget that other people aren't as smart as me and don't pick up on everything the same way I guess I also figured that if the person who vigged nova wasn't bullzeye they in particular might have protested the clearing of bullzeye, but who knows.

I thought the prevailing wisdom/case was that his nova vote was indicative of him being on nova's team. But you're saying he voted for nova and then vigged her? Or are you fishing for the actual vig, which is in itself pretty suspicioso. Mondo garbo, even.

The case for bullzeye being nova's teammate prevailed for a little while but as far as I could tell it mostly died out after timmer came out swinging in his favor, which is sort of why I assumed other people started to guess the same thing that I did. And no, not trying to fish for the vig, I would rather not have this lead to anyone outing themself -- but, say, if a sudden compelling drive to lynch bullzeye were to appear I would not dismiss it.

I never thought of that, but I don't mind it... except that JJJ said he blocked Timmer. Is there a way he could have seen bullz vig with that in play?

Long Con wrote: ↑Mon Nov 05, 2018 12:31 am

nutella wrote: ↑Mon Nov 05, 2018 12:25 am

DharmaHelper wrote: ↑Mon Nov 05, 2018 12:11 am

nutella wrote: ↑Mon Nov 05, 2018 12:06 am

DharmaHelper wrote: ↑Mon Nov 05, 2018 12:02 am Implied how and why would you expect anyone to refute an unspoken implication?

Sometimes I forget that other people aren't as smart as me and don't pick up on everything the same way I guess I also figured that if the person who vigged nova wasn't bullzeye they in particular might have protested the clearing of bullzeye, but who knows.

I thought the prevailing wisdom/case was that his nova vote was indicative of him being on nova's team. But you're saying he voted for nova and then vigged her? Or are you fishing for the actual vig, which is in itself pretty suspicioso. Mondo garbo, even.

The case for bullzeye being nova's teammate prevailed for a little while but as far as I could tell it mostly died out after timmer came out swinging in his favor, which is sort of why I assumed other people started to guess the same thing that I did. And no, not trying to fish for the vig, I would rather not have this lead to anyone outing themself -- but, say, if a sudden compelling drive to lynch bullzeye were to appear I would not dismiss it.

I never thought of that, but I don't mind it... except that JJJ said he blocked Timmer. Is there a way he could have seen bullz vig with that in play?

That's beside the point. After Jay said he blocked Timmer, Timmer said it had nothing to do with any action or ability he used, which is why I figured it was just a guess.

K, so my Pat's game is over, so I can get back to this.

Guys, I always write the way I write in this game. I don't like to push ideas if I'm unsure of them, so I always make clear that I'm unsure. It's how ive always posted in mafia. So if you are going to lynch me for it, honestly I'm prob done for good. This is the very reason ive gone such long stretches without playing, this happens every fucking time.

And long con, really? That post of mine that you said you found troublesome? I was describing my job. I was at work. Its what I do.

I'm sorry I have no major ideas to push. I'm clearly not cut out for this.

The only useful thing I can tell you is that there really may be something to the idea that the dead baddies aren't necessarily bad. And there may be a serial killer attached to it.

nutella wrote: ↑Mon Nov 05, 2018 12:31 am

Quin wrote: ↑Mon Nov 05, 2018 12:19 am

nutella wrote: ↑Sun Nov 04, 2018 11:59 pm big post with long con in it

I didn't get that subtle defence or whatever from LC at all. Dunno how you interpreted it that way.

So anyway why isn't your vote on Colin? same goes for @Long Con

because you're bad

timmer wrote: ↑Mon Nov 05, 2018 12:39 am K, so my Pat's game is over, so I can get back to this.

Guys, I always write the way I write in this game. I don't like to push ideas if I'm unsure of them, so I always make clear that I'm unsure. It's how ive always posted in mafia. So if you are going to lynch me for it, honestly I'm prob done for good. This is the very reason ive gone such long stretches without playing, this happens every fucking time.

And long con, really? That post of mine that you said you found troublesome? I was describing my job. I was at work. Its what I do.

I'm sorry I have no major ideas to push. I'm clearly not cut out for this.

The only useful thing I can tell you is that there really may be something to the idea that the dead baddies aren't necessarily bad. And there may be a serial killer attached to it.

Here's how it went down from my perspective, one mental state at a time.

1. Bullzeye voted for nova.
2. Timmer and a few others found Bullzeye's vote extremely suspicious.
3. Nova was killed and flipped bad.
4. Some people (myself included) suspect Bullzeye even more, thinking that he placed a vote on a teammate.
5. Timmer comes out with a 180 on Bullzeye, calling him his top civ read after the events of the night but not due to a cop check.
6. I look at the list of abilities to see what might explain this that's not cop-ish per se. I notice the one that tracks which player a player targeted, and it occurs to me that perhaps Bullzeye vigged nova since he presumably suspected him, and perhaps timmer tracked Bullzeye since he suspected him, and saw that he targeted nova, and is now townclearing Bullzeye as the vig.
7. I accept this and decide to townread both bullzeye and timmer based on this interpretation.
8. The topic comes up again and Jay questions how timmer could know anything and says that he blocked timmer.
9. I say "wouldn't he not have gotten a result at all if he were blocked?"
10. That turns out to be moot as timmer admits that it was not based on anything he did at all, it was just based on something that happened (i.e. nova's death).
11. I figure that timmer had just made an educated guess that bullzeye vigged nova and decided to townclear him. Since it made so much sense to me when I was investigating back when I thought timmer actually knew something, I figured that I still believed it made sense even though it turned out timmer didn't actually know, and I continued to agree with timmer/believe that bullzeye killed nova.
12. For a while I still figured that this looked good for timmer. I no longer feel like I have much justification for that; he could easily have scum motivation for pulling his 180 on bullzeye in the way that he did.