The Syndicate

I think neither Mac or Golden are mafia.

MacDougall wrote:

Golden wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:Golden, let's talk. If you could lynch any player in the game right now instead of Simon, who would it be and why?

Mac, 100%.

Because I think he is trying to drum up suspicion on people he sees as threats to his own survival, rather than having genuine opinions. Good example, go iso how back and forth and flaky he has been on his suspicion on me. It's like he is dipping his toes in the water to see if anyone else bites.

He also berates others for not creating content, but when I suggest he could do the same he barely does. It's not like he is going out of his way to canvas a lot of suspicions or directly question people. He only really started directly going at me just now after I started questioning him about his read on you. Before that, he was cautious in his suspicion of me.

linki @mac - when did I ever suggest you would want to exclusively talk about me? I was actually asking you to talk about your suspicion of MP, so...

It is extremely challenging and creates anxiety when you go up against you in the thread. Your reactions are usually mean and belittling to people who question you so I try to avoid doing it unless I feel the need to.

Golden I started accusing you. You are the one who is deploying OMGUS not me.

Actually it's not even that. It's that they are so inconsistent. Sometimes you just dismiss them and are fine and pleasant. But other times you are rude about it. Which makes me even more anxious because I can't tell if I'm going to get the tactful thoughtful Golden rebuttal or the whirlwind of anger.

@MP - people who are tinfoiling don't tend to bring up reasons to suspect you that were actively defended against with objective evidence days before.

Mac keeps bringing up his perception of my 'lack of posting'. I expect civilians (especially ones like Mac, who actually have a pretty minimal level of experience of me) to take into account a broader understanding of my civ meta when it crops up. His opinion on that side of me this game hasn't changed, so I believe he has an agenda for pushing it.

And anyway, I have found him to be, shall be say... deliberately obtuse throughout this game. I think he has very well understood a lot of things that he is pretending he is not understanding and finding suspicious.

linki @Mac - a second ago, from my dune meta, you said going up against me sees me just shrug of suspicions and not care.

Now, you say I am mean and belittling when people go against me and you avoid it when you can.

Which is it? They are basically polar opposites.

sig wrote:I think neither Mac or Golden are mafia.

I actually am leaning civ on him too. I am just disappointed that me pointing out that I feel that he's not giving this game the attention it deserves has made him angry and apparently given him a scum read on me. I just wanted to get the Dune and World Reborn civ Golden here. Fine he's busy, doesn't mean he has to be a dick to me.

Golden wrote:@MP - people who are tinfoiling don't tend to bring up reasons to suspect you that were actively defended against with objective evidence days before.

Mac keeps bringing up his perception of my 'lack of posting'. I expect civilians (especially ones like Mac, who actually have a pretty minimal level of experience of me) to take into account a broader understanding of my civ meta when it crops up. His opinion on that side of me this game hasn't changed, so I believe he has an agenda for pushing it.

And anyway, I have found him to be, shall be say... deliberately obtuse throughout this game. I think he has very well understood a lot of things that he is pretending he is not understanding and finding suspicious.

linki @Mac - a second ago, from my dune meta, you said going up against me sees me just shrug of suspicions and not care.

Now, you say I am mean and belittling when people go against me and you avoid it when you can.

Which is it? They are basically polar opposites.

Lol okay what have I not understood that I am pretending not to?

I explained it. You are like a powder keg. Sometimes you are angry and mean like you were to Matt in World Reborn. Sometimes you are tactful and nice under fire like you were to me in Dune. It's weird and makes me even more anxious.

Heh, I see you caught that inconsistency first.

I have a simple answer for you.

Depends if I think you are good or bad. Today you get full on rebuttal - because I think your motivations for going up against me are not civilian motivations. It also does sometimes depend how busy I am in real life.

It's hard to provide thoughtful responses to continued cajoling from you to post more, as though this is an indicator of my civ self when I've already made it very clear it is not.

Golden wrote:Heh, I see you caught that inconsistency first.

I have a simple answer for you.

Depends if I think you are good or bad. Today you get full on rebuttal - because I think your motivations for going up against me are not civilian motivations. It also does sometimes depend how busy I am in real life.

It's hard to provide thoughtful responses to continued cajoling from you to post more, as though this is an indicator of my civ self when I've already made it very clear it is not.

I ain't asking you to post more. You're posting plenty. I'm asking you think more.

Suddenly I have to go. Be back later.

MovingPictures07 wrote:Suddenly I have to go. Be back later.

Me too.

Great job Simon voters

I cannot believe I missed the vote. I was waiting to vote in the end so I could help save Simon but I got caught up in my show and forgot to look at the time Not that I could have helped anyway.

I'm thinking plenty.

This isn't RYM. Me telling you the next five suspects on my list isn't at the top of my agenda. I explained to you... simon today, I have no need to go tealking about my empire suspects when simon was still on the list. You can accept that, or not, but its normal culture in a world where death often ends your game when civ. What if I call three empire team members out correctly? I can't lynch them all, but they can certainly NK me.

And I still don't understand why you would think you don't have supertown golden in this game when I basically was the one who created the case on the two baddies we've caught. It seems that holds no sway in how much you think I'm thinking.

Elohcin wrote:Great job Simon voters

I cannot believe I missed the vote. I was waiting to vote in the end so I could help save Simon but I got caught up in my show and forgot to look at the time Not that I could have helped anyway.

A mother's vote is worth a gazzillion

Golden wrote:I'm thinking plenty.

This isn't RYM. Me telling you the next five suspects on my list isn't at the top of my agenda. I explained to you... simon today, I have no need to go tealking about my empire suspects when simon was still on the list. You can accept that, or not, but its normal culture in a world where death often ends your game when civ. What if I call three empire team members out correctly? I can't lynch them all, but they can certainly NK me.

And I still don't understand why you would think you don't have supertown golden in this game when I basically was the one who created the case on the two baddies we've caught. It seems that holds no sway in how much you think I'm thinking.

Which I don't get. Basically every right minded human being in the game agreed that today was being wasted even if Simon was scum. Your reaction was to question motivation and be a dick. Everyone else. Yeah fair call let's do some other stuff.

I think this point is a lie. You really expect me to believe that you are the type of player who holds back scum hunting effort for some tactical civ based reason?

Dude you could have just said "yeah I've been busy".

Now yes, you made a point that effectively convinced everyone to lynch BC and then Enrique (and subsequently Simon), and I agreed with all of it. Hell I had a scum read of Enrique on day 1 page 2 or something. But that's just the damn point. You gave the thread unequivocal attention for what, like five minutes? And you saw a post, you when HMMM CURIOUS, questioned it, and all of a sudden we lynch two Hutts because of it.

And you wonder why I am trying to whip you into more action instead of letting you coast on Day 5. And now we've lynched a civ so the entire reason you were coasting is lost, and you're still trying to tell me I am bad for trying to get you and the town to produce more content on day 5?

Basically Golden gives actual non surface effort for minimal time, tugs a string and lynches two Hutts and wonders why I want him to try more. Not just wonders but thinks I'm bad for WANTING a player who has shown amazing ability to catch scum here to post more.

To what fucking end would me as scum want you to try harder if you were civ?

Now I really should go work.

ooo we can gamble never played slots before expect for in Pokemon, and that didn't end well.

PULL

If that is really how you feel, I don't know what I can do about it.

PULL

RIP Simon

Matt what do you think of Zebra and Sorsha so far?

sig wrote:Matt what do you think of Zebra and Sorsha so far?

I dunno I haven't read the thread yet.

What do you think of Zebra and Sorsha so far?

MacDougall wrote:Basically Golden gives actual non surface effort for minimal time, tugs a string and lynches two Hutts and wonders why I want him to try more. Not just wonders but thinks I'm bad for WANTING a player who has shown amazing ability to catch scum here to post more.

To what fucking end would me as scum want you to try harder if you were civ?

You say 'I'm trying to get you to post more'

I say 'you're trying to get others thinking I'm not contributing when I am'.

"non surface effort for minimal time"... thats what you are claiming I've done in this game.

I may post "Paranoid theory: enrique and simon are BC teammates" but when I do that, I've already done my isos and poll research to test it. Catching scum isn't minimal effort.

Matt wrote:PULL

Hi everyone.

My thanksgiving travels are over so I'm back in the game. Thanks to the hosts for bearing with me, and apologies to you all for being MIA.

I meant to vote in this poll but I passed out after work today. I deserve to die.

Not reading all 55 pages of what has happened. I'll try to catch at least the basics and go from there, though.

Russtifinko wrote:Hi everyone.

My thanksgiving travels are over so I'm back in the game. Thanks to the hosts for bearing with me, and apologies to you all for being MIA.

I meant to vote in this poll but I passed out after work today. I deserve to die.

Not reading all 55 pages of what has happened. I'll try to catch at least the basics and go from there, though.

Hi Talking Heads scum Russ. How are you going today?

PULL

Golden wrote:

MacDougall wrote:Basically Golden gives actual non surface effort for minimal time, tugs a string and lynches two Hutts and wonders why I want him to try more. Not just wonders but thinks I'm bad for WANTING a player who has shown amazing ability to catch scum here to post more.

To what fucking end would me as scum want you to try harder if you were civ?

You say 'I'm trying to get you to post more'

I say 'you're trying to get others thinking I'm not contributing when I am'.

"non surface effort for minimal time"... thats what you are claiming I've done in this game.

I may post "Paranoid theory: enrique and simon are BC teammates" but when I do that, I've already done my isos and poll research to test it. Catching scum isn't minimal effort.

Okay let's see. Put smart Golden hat on not ragequit OMGUS Golden hat on.

What's more likely? I am civ and I want the civ grandmaster of scum hunt to post more?
I am scum and I am trying to convince everyone of something that is blatantly obviously not true?

Mate, if you were civ and I was bad, I would kill you on night 1 all day urvday.

Matt wrote:PULL

PULL

Dang. I don't even know exactly how many credits I have. But I think I have well enough for a few more.

PULL

MacDougall wrote:PULL

Win: 12 credits

Matt wrote:PULL

Win: 12 credits

Matt wrote:Dang. I don't even know exactly how many credits I have. But I think I have well enough for a few more.

PULL

Is that Bernie Sanders economic plans? No wait he would be redistributing the credits :P

But know on a serious note, slight scum read on Sorsha and null on zebra. Zebra was a civ read but I've downgraded her. Sorsha was null but a combinations of factors which I mentioned in an above post has lead me to believe she is scum.

Welcome back Russ.

Btw, I haven't reread the thread yet, but I did ISO Bcornett because I noticed Salacious Crumb, his minion, was required to amuse Jabba each day. Looking for Jabba to be amused, I ISO'd bcornett and saw on Day 1, bcornett put out a "lol" over Black Rock thinking G2H meant "go to hell" as opposed to it's real meaning, "gun to head". However, bcornett gave his "lol" to Golden correcting Black Rock, so I'm not sure which one would be Crumb, if that was even why he laughed in the first place.

Not that that means jack, but I found it interesting. More then likely that part of Crumb's role is something else, but why not share right?

PULL

Matt wrote:PULL

That is interesting, though if it was the only time he did it I doubt it means anything. I didn't consider that so I'll go take a look.

Question for all do you think Enrique was really poisoned?

PULL

sig - It was the only time he "lol" so it's probably nothing, just sharing.

@Mac - you suspect me only to get me to post more? Is that what you are saying?

I feel like your thoughts are all over the show. I've been rational this entire time. I haven't OMGUSed you - I wanted you to answer questions about MP because I felt your change suspicious, but you have obfuscated in your answers on that, to the extent that all I can take from it is that it is 'obvious' that your reasons for changing your view is because 'MP has been different' in the last short period of time. If that was coming from someone else, how good a reason would you see that as being?

And if your cajoling to get me to post more was just that, I'd probably see it as motivated by civ causes. But it hasn't just been that.... its been waving (from before you asked me to post more) in and out of this suspicion you have that I'm on team Empire, and you have been using my apparent lack of effort as evidence that I am on that team. So, yes, it feels to me like the latter is more true than the former. It isn't necessarily so, but if you want rational - just go back and look at yours posts as they relate to me over the last few days. They've been all over the show. It's hard for me to see them as coherent rational thought. Take this, for instance.

Bloody Hell. I had two catering jobs today and I thought the poll was up tomorrow. I wish the polls were later. I have to catch up after I get ready for the job tomorrow.

Golden wrote:@Mac - you suspect me only to get me to post more? Is that what you are saying?

I feel like your thoughts are all over the show. I've been rational this entire time. I haven't OMGUSed you - I wanted you to answer questions about MP because I felt your change suspicious, but you have obfuscated in your answers on that, to the extent that all I can take from it is that it is 'obvious' that your reasons for changing your view is because 'MP has been different' in the last short period of time. If that was coming from someone else, how good a reason would you see that as being?

And if your cajoling to get me to post more was just that, I'd probably see it as motivated by civ causes. But it hasn't just been that.... its been waving (from before you asked me to post more) in and out of this suspicion you have that I'm on team Empire, and you have been using my apparent lack of effort as evidence that I am on that team. So, yes, it feels to me like the latter is more true than the former. It isn't necessarily so, but if you want rational - just go back and look at yours posts as they relate to me over the last few days. They've been all over the show. It's hard for me to see them as coherent rational thought. Take this, for instance.

Spoiler: show

MacDougall wrote:

Golden wrote:

MacDougall wrote:

Golden wrote:I'm rarely one who stirs noise for the sake of it. If I think I have some easy votes, I'm ok having a couple of quiet days, especially when I'm busy enough as it is.

I will say though - what is this low hanging fruit have I been going after, exactly?

Fair enough.

Not just you, the entire game has been played with the voting of low hanging fruit getting lynched and looks set to continue with Simon's lynch. Ironically they have been scum, so can't really complain, except that they've been scum from the same team so I'm not discounting the possibility of the Empire being the driving force behind it all.

BC was low hanging fruit? Really? Was Enrique going to go down if noone had put out the various connections? I don't think so... that was a solid case, not low-hanging fruit.

I would call low-hanging fruit 'I'm voting bubbles because she doesn't post much'. But I haven't really seen any of that going on this game. Seeing clear baddie connections and lynching people for them is hardly low-hanging fruit. It's what we are trying to do...

I've also generally pushed against low hanging fruit lynches - including early movements against russti and enrique, and BC trying to push bubbles etc... so I don't think you will find it accurate to say I've gone for low hanging fruit. The one exception you might make is bass 1.0.

Okie dokie. Consider me convinced.

I suspect you because I feel your level of scum hunting is not where it usually is. Despite your efforts causing 2 scum to be revealed. Actually because of it. For you to back off after catching 2 scum is weird. You just put your vote on Simon and allow everyone else to do the same, it's so unlike what I expect of you. Especially when you have the taste of having caught scum I'd expect you to be very present after that, but instead ... you're busy, your focus is on World Reborn etc. I can't see why you wouldn't be giving this game the same level of attention as World Reborn when you have actually been largely responsible for putting us in a good position here. That should feed your desire to contribute, instead it seems to have given you carte blanche to apparently take the day off. That's more of a bad guy reaction that a good guy reaction. It's like you won some civ cred so you feel comfortable taking the day. Until I provoked you into action, and you reaction wasn't like MP who just started analysing the game and hunting, but to no u me really hard.

It'd be nuts to think you are on the Hutts since you got two of them lynched right. So if I am right in my ping you'd be Empire obviously, not Hutt. In case you're wondering why I think you're Empire. Again this is the sort of thing I feel a civilian Golden would just GET without me needing to express it.

All your points against me are valid. But you are only pointing out that I have had an inconsistent read on you. My opinion on you has indeed fluctuated. As has my opinion on many players. My read of the play changes as content gets produced. You have made me feel unsettled, then you've made me feel better, then you've unsettled me again. Same can be said for others. I started with a scum read of Sig, now I have a very town read of Sig. I started with a scum read of MP, now I have a town read. I started with a town read of you, now I have slight bad guy read.

And now you are ignoring the obvious answer I gave you about my MP read? MP came in today all guns blazing, agreeing that today was being wasted. Agreeing with ME. I am civ so if he feels the same way I do it's easy for me to deduce that he is civ.

You though, you psyched up. You disagreed. You made excuses for taking the day off. I don't get it.

Matt wrote:PULL

Win: 40 credits

MacDougall wrote:

Golden wrote:@Mac - you suspect me only to get me to post more? Is that what you are saying?

I feel like your thoughts are all over the show. I've been rational this entire time. I haven't OMGUSed you - I wanted you to answer questions about MP because I felt your change suspicious, but you have obfuscated in your answers on that, to the extent that all I can take from it is that it is 'obvious' that your reasons for changing your view is because 'MP has been different' in the last short period of time. If that was coming from someone else, how good a reason would you see that as being?

And if your cajoling to get me to post more was just that, I'd probably see it as motivated by civ causes. But it hasn't just been that.... its been waving (from before you asked me to post more) in and out of this suspicion you have that I'm on team Empire, and you have been using my apparent lack of effort as evidence that I am on that team. So, yes, it feels to me like the latter is more true than the former. It isn't necessarily so, but if you want rational - just go back and look at yours posts as they relate to me over the last few days. They've been all over the show. It's hard for me to see them as coherent rational thought. Take this, for instance.

Spoiler: show

MacDougall wrote:

Golden wrote:

MacDougall wrote:

Golden wrote:I'm rarely one who stirs noise for the sake of it. If I think I have some easy votes, I'm ok having a couple of quiet days, especially when I'm busy enough as it is.

I will say though - what is this low hanging fruit have I been going after, exactly?

Fair enough.

Not just you, the entire game has been played with the voting of low hanging fruit getting lynched and looks set to continue with Simon's lynch. Ironically they have been scum, so can't really complain, except that they've been scum from the same team so I'm not discounting the possibility of the Empire being the driving force behind it all.

BC was low hanging fruit? Really? Was Enrique going to go down if noone had put out the various connections? I don't think so... that was a solid case, not low-hanging fruit.

I would call low-hanging fruit 'I'm voting bubbles because she doesn't post much'. But I haven't really seen any of that going on this game. Seeing clear baddie connections and lynching people for them is hardly low-hanging fruit. It's what we are trying to do...

I've also generally pushed against low hanging fruit lynches - including early movements against russti and enrique, and BC trying to push bubbles etc... so I don't think you will find it accurate to say I've gone for low hanging fruit. The one exception you might make is bass 1.0.

Okie dokie. Consider me convinced.

I suspect you because I feel your level of scum hunting is not where it usually is. Despite your efforts causing 2 scum to be revealed. Actually because of it. For you to back off after catching 2 scum is weird. You just put your vote on Simon and allow everyone else to do the same, it's so unlike what I expect of you. Especially when you have the taste of having caught scum I'd expect you to be very present after that, but instead ... you're busy, your focus is on World Reborn etc. I can't see why you wouldn't be giving this game the same level of attention as World Reborn when you have actually been largely responsible for putting us in a good position here. That should feed your desire to contribute, instead it seems to have given you carte blanche to apparently take the day off. That's more of a bad guy reaction that a good guy reaction. It's like you won some civ cred so you feel comfortable taking the day. Until I provoked you into action, and you reaction wasn't like MP who just started analysing the game and hunting, but to no u me really hard.

It'd be nuts to think you are on the Hutts since you got two of them lynched right. So if I am right in my ping you'd be Empire obviously, not Hutt. In case you're wondering why I think you're Empire. Again this is the sort of thing I feel a civilian Golden would just GET without me needing to express it.

All your points against me are valid. But you are only pointing out that I have had an inconsistent read on you. My opinion on you has indeed fluctuated. As has my opinion on many players. My read of the play changes as content gets produced. You have made me feel unsettled, then you've made me feel better, then you've unsettled me again. Same can be said for others. I started with a scum read of Sig, now I have a very town read of Sig. I started with a scum read of MP, now I have a town read. I started with a town read of you, now I have slight bad guy read.

And now you are ignoring the obvious answer I gave you about my MP read? MP came in today all guns blazing, agreeing that today was being wasted. Agreeing with ME. I am civ so if he feels the same way I do it's easy for me to deduce that he is civ.

You though, you psyched up. You disagreed. You made excuses for taking the day off. I don't get it.

Mac, if you think all I've done is no u really hard, then you need to read the day back, tbqh. I've put my oar in all over the place where I've felt it is needed.

MacDougall wrote:You though, you psyched up. You disagreed. You made excuses for taking the day off. I don't get it.

I never disagreed.

I just said I didn't feel the need to be the one doing it, and that plenty of other people had the capability.

MP has been doing that all game. MP also had really good reasons to take a break and focus on RL, and he wasn't doing it right then. So...?

And if it takes for you to think someone is civ is for hem to act the way you want them to and think the same way you do, then I guess I know now exactly how to make you blind when I'm scum.

I have said since a long time to go, and I will continue to say it since you continue to seem to think the same thing. Your idea of me taking a day off and not being urgent in catching empire making me SCUM is blatantly wrong. You know what golden doesn't take days off to stop 'scum hunting'? SCUM golden. Scum golden never rests, because he has a meta to live up to. Even if he is wrong, at least he looks like he is trying.

Civ golden doesn't give a toss about appearing to his meta. Civ golden just wants to solve the game. You can take that to the bank.

JJJ had experience of accusing me of taking the game easy on a number of days where there were easy lynches in Bullets over Broadway too. What happened in that game? I was not on either of the baddie teams (which should have been known in that case because I put a hole in both), and I was alive to help decide the game at lylo, and I won.

Here is the thing... it doesn't even matter if I took down two members of the empire in the next two days. If I take a day off, people just start accusing me of having bussed my teammates. They ignore the fact that I take lots of days off all the time. As I said to Brian way back on day one of this game:

Golden wrote:

bcornett24 wrote:You are way to defensive for what I said. I have never seen a golden who is scared he is going to be lynched because of too much content as a civ? Even if you have been in the recent past, even in more than one game, that is a bullshit excuse, and illogical. As you stated in your argument with zebra content is useful as it allows reads. I've have been lynched on day 1-2 in 2/6 of the games ive played thus far. That hasn't stopped me from posting. (Thanfully this day 0/1 fell on my weekend so I have had more time to participate.)

I'm not 'afraid to post content'.

But if I put my absolute full 'supatown golden' into every game from day one, two things will happen.

1) People will like me less, because it can be quite an abrasive style for some people and I make a concerted effort not to do it too often, only when I feel very confident and;
2) I'll burn out.

I'm heading into a short mafia break after this game to stay fresh, and I only signed up for this one very late because I couldn't resist the theme. But I have no intention of playing this game at 100% intensity. I'm still committed to providing quality content, just hopefully in a less intense way. I need this for me.

I appreciate you doing the iso and realising that I've been providing content all game. You didn't need to change your perspective, you could have pursued it, so that is a positive in my book.

The relevance of that post has still not changed. I am sticking to exactly the same game method and intent that I declared all the way back there, and I will continue to stick to it no matter how much people cajole me otherwise. I have a history of stress-related depression. I know when to push and when to take it easy. This game is one where I'm taking it easy. That doesn't mean low content, and it doesn't mean I'm not thinking. It just means I have absolutely no intention of trying to supatown golden at 100% the entire game.

You've already proved number 1 today, since you feel like I've been acting like a dick

MovingPictures07 wrote:

thellama73 wrote:All right, Blooper it is. Sorry, Blooper.

Can you point to specific posts where you feel Blooper has exhibited mafia behavior?

Probably.

MovingPictures07 wrote:I need to vote pronto, it seems.

I really need to do some digging and ISOing before I can properly adjust my rainbow list, so... I'm sticking with a vote for my most recently expressed top mafia read, Glorfindel. Not that it matters for the result, but in spirit.

OK, MP, Golden, Mac, Zeb and the rest of you... sure, I could spend my time on some analysis, etc. but at this point, please explain to me what exactly would be the point. Just like Simon, you've already made up your minds about me and let's face the facts - because you're unwilling to seriously consider a vote on anyone inside your little clique, I'd pretty much be wasting my time as will you while you blissfully skip down the path to oblivion next day phase on another fanciful quest while the Mafia sit back and laugh at you all...