[END] Turf Wars: Battle of the Hosts

[Marmot]

I'm starting off with a vote for Long Con.

Where you at mate? What are your thoughts right now?

[Quin]

I'm not feeling an ika lynch today. I think I want to just stare at him for the next 48 hours and psycho-analyse his every breath. Maybe we can have a coffee together. Make a day of it. I've got nobody else to talk to anyway.

I'll be voting between Golden and Luffy today. I think their interactions make it clear that if one of them is mafia, the other probably isn't. They both bring up very extremely good points against each other and I feel as though they legitimately want each other lynched.

I'll place the actual vote tonight when I get home from uni. I want to sit on it for a while.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

I don't think Golden wants to get me lynched.

[Golden]

I don't think Golden wants to get me lynched.

Not as imminently as today.

In the event you are civ, and Quin is cop (which I think there is a decent possibility of) it is a good way to try to make today look like a linear choice between two people who aren't his teammates.

I really am trying to lynch sig, not DDL.

[Scotty]

Did you guys know that "sig" spelled backward is "cop"?

sig

[ika]

I'm not feeling an ika lynch today. I think I want to just stare at him for the next 48 hours and psycho-analyse his every breath. Maybe we can have a coffee together. Make a day of it. I've got nobody else to talk to anyway.

I'll be voting between Golden and Luffy today. I think their interactions make it clear that if one of them is mafia, the other probably isn't. They both bring up very extremely good points against each other and I feel as though they legitimately want each other lynched.

I'll place the actual vote tonight when I get home from uni. I want to sit on it for a while.

------------------------

[Quin]

I don't think Golden wants to get me lynched.

Not as imminently as today.

In the event you are civ, and Quin is cop (which I think there is a decent possibility of) it is a good way to try to make today look like a linear choice between two people who aren't his teammates.

I really am trying to lynch sig, not DDL.

Couldn't you say the same thing about what you're doing for sig? You're reading my suspicions as though I'm creating an ultimatum. I've given my thoughts on loads of other players, but you're homing in on this post. Whether you wanted him lynched today or tomorrow, I don't think it matters. You did say you scumread him and argued that point seriously. Typically, scum = lynch. Did your opinion on him change so I missed it?

[Golden]

Yes, you missed it.

[Golden]

I will say, DDL, nothing about your case on me feels phoned in or disingenuous. Makes me feel better about you.

See above.

[Quin]

breakdances away

[Dragon D. Luffy]

breakdances away

[Quin]

breakdances away

god damn it

[Sloonei]

Enrique. I'm at work.

[Marmot]

Ika, can I get you a drink?

[DrWilgy]

DrWilgy has been killed by the Hitman from The Sockfaced Famiglia. He was Crew, a member of The Daisy Crime Syndicate.

????? escaped an arrest attempt by the Police.

DrWilgy was already dead and thus escaped an arrest attempt by the Police.

Matt has been killed by the Capo and Crew from The Daisy Crime Syndicate. He was The Fall Guy, a member of The Daisy Crime Syndicate.

It is now Day 3.

You have 48 hours to find a policeman. Good luck, goons!

Oh no! Who could've ever predicted such tragedy! Definitely not meeeeeeeee...

[sig]

Poor Matt and Wilgy, this isn't good. Two civs down in one night.

I am not mafia I will defend myself and have made my points, however I believe Golden is either mafia or tunneling and not willing to see that I am civ.

[chaindeath]

Chaindeath is unsure of the board state at this point. He has a few civi reads on a few people and a few on who the baddies might be. Scum seems like a mean word to him and he prefers baddies. If he was forced to vote right now it would likely be for either DDL or maybe SW.

Luckily he made it though the night safely and can look at people more closely. He had exams this past week that made keeping up really quite stressful and he plans to be more up and active. Hopefully.

[Scotty]

Chaindeath is unsure of the board state at this point. He has a few civi reads on a few people and a few on who the baddies might be. Scum seems like a mean word to him and he prefers baddies. If he was forced to vote right now it would likely be for either DDL or maybe SW.

Luckily he made it though the night safely and can look at people more closely. He had exams this past week that made keeping up really quite stressful and he plans to be more up and active. Hopefully.

Do you think you really were a candidate to be killed last night? I mean, anything is possible, but like, really?

[Marmot]

Poor Matt and Wilgy, this isn't good. Two civs down in one night.

I am not mafia I will defend myself and have made my points, however I believe Golden is either mafia or tunneling and not willing to see that I am civ.

Which of these two scenarios do you think is true?

[sig]

Poor Matt and Wilgy, this isn't good. Two civs down in one night.

I am not mafia I will defend myself and have made my points, however I believe Golden is either mafia or tunneling and not willing to see that I am civ.

Which of these two scenarios do you think is true?

I want to say the first, but I don't want to tunnel on him in a No U kind off way. I do however, find his behavior surrounding the Fuzz lynch strange as well as the fact he became so sure and setting up bandwagons for today.

[chaindeath]

Chaindeath has been night killed before and it haunts him to this day. Kinda. He just lives knowing that he could die at any moment. #tragicbuttrue

[Marmot]

Chaindeath has been night killed before and it haunts him to this day. Kinda. He just lives knowing that he could die at any moment. #tragicbuttrue

Chaindeath! I noticed chaindeath enjoys talking in the third person. Can I buy chaindeath a drink?

[Scotty]

Chaindeath has been night killed before and it haunts him to this day. Kinda. He just lives knowing that he could die at any moment. #tragicbuttrue

I have been night killed before too, chaindeath, but what have you done this game that you think would warrant being night killed? #civlivesmatter

[Epignosis]

Spoiler: show

I have finally finished reading. Jesus.

Taking the Lords name in vain, you should be lynched just for this.

Wow why Fuzz this makes no sense I think this is a baddie driven CFD to save a teammate, notice almost the same people are up for lynches today as yesterday? I stand by my theory that one was mafia and that we had some minor save last phase, I think we are seeing a much bigger save attempt this phase. With a mafia team thhis big a CFD is easy to pull off I think this is scum driven to save one of the three leading people. Most likely Ike or Epi.

Can someone give me any reason for the Fuzz lynch?

I also really dislike DDL switch and his reasons. I actually am agreeing with Llama about him what about a Dragon lycnh?

linki: DDL and Golden are my top two scum reads, either Ike or Epi are there partners. Possibly Wilgy as well.

While the "Wow why Fuzz this makes no sense" is the obvious thing people will take from this post, don't overlook that sig names five people- with thirty-three minutes in the lynch to go. We used to call that "throwing shit at the wall and seeing what sticks" back in the day. In addition, sig starts "agreeing" with llama about DDL.

sig, do you still agree with thellama73 about DDL? Why or why not?

I've still got a slight scum read on DDL mainly for Llama's points.I also didn't like his reasoning for switching wagons. I did name multiply people yes with good reasoning imo. I saw yesterday as an attempt to save Ika, Golden seemed scummy. I had already said one of the leading wagons was mafia that would have been Ika or you. Wilgy for reasons stated earlier. What is wrong with making multiply reads? I wasn't trying to redirect the CFD

I also find it very odd Golden doesn't want to lynch Ike a new player but suggested a CFD onto Serge another new player?

This isn't a big deal, but ika isn't a new player, and sig should know that.

This game was played eight months ago I didn't recall playing with Ika. This seems like a desperate attempt to try and refocus the discussion onto me.

The fact that the Gleam wagon exploded at the beginning of the phase with almost no explanation to being gone and another wagon popping up ijust as fast is insane. I bet Fuzz will flip civ, you'll attempt to lead a Gleam lynch tomorrow and they will flip civ. I know firmly believe one of the other two front runners is a cop.

This post oozes with desperation and fear-mongering. I wish I could see what the vote tallies looked like at the time of this post. I don't understand sig's thought process, but if sig is bad, I would argue that agleaminranks is good, because sig would know Fuzz wouldn't flip civilian.

Can you explain this I don't understand? I said if Fuzz flips civ then Gleam would be wagoned tomorrow and would the be civ. My thought process was simply. We had so many people vote Gleam for no good reason, his wagon exploded. Then it lost all its votes and was replaced by Fuzz. Could you explain your theory about Gleam being good if I'm bad?

I'm not going to go through all of sig's posts that are all railing against the wave of votes that came in out of nowhere for Fuzz. Here's my question: Is there a precedent for sig urging desperately against someone's lynch in the early stage of a game?

Sometimes I will, I recently did this more or less in Llama's game and it got me lynched. II think it has happened a few times, the reason I was so vocal this game was because I believed we where being redirected and pushed by the mafia.

I stand up for sig when he is town, all the time. You know this about me. Everyone does. I'm pretty good at seeing sig slips and seeing the reasons people are after him are dumb.

He made no slip here. He didn't post a word that was misinterpreted. People weren't taking him the wrong way. No - he opposed the CFD, and voted to break the tie and save Fuzz.

I do not believe this sig is town for a second.

Yep. I want to say I've even defended sig when he was bad and I wasn't.

That is true, however you also voted agaisnt me in The Syndicate game, when I voted with the last mafia player when I was indeed a civ. So I'd say you have defended me, but also voted agaisnt me when I made voting errors in the past.
++++

If I'm popped tonight, my top three are sig, Quin, and Nerolunar.

I'm not making a desperate attempt to refocus the discussion onto you. "Refocusing" assumes that the focus has gone away from you. It hasn't. You have two votes out of the gate. You desperately attempted to refocus discussion away from Fuzz. That is why you are the focus now.

My reasoning about gleam being good hinges on you being bad. If you are bad, I would argue that gleam is good. If you are a cop, then you knew Fuzz would not show up good, and you used gleam as a reason people shouldn't vote Fuzz. It's convoluted and based on assumptions about what people would do, which sounds like you were clutching at straws.

@ Epignosis

What exactly is your case against me? I only remember you mentioning me steering the thread earlier which you didn´t follow up on, but does it go beyond that? Explain to me why you find me suspicious.

I don't have a case against you. Yet.

So we've had a night phase. What fresh information do we have? Do you still want to lynch me?

[Sloonei]

Chaindeath is unsure of the board state at this point. He has a few civi reads on a few people and a few on who the baddies might be. Scum seems like a mean word to him and he prefers baddies. If he was forced to vote right now it would likely be for either DDL or maybe SW.

Luckily he made it though the night safely and can look at people more closely. He had exams this past week that made keeping up really quite stressful and he plans to be more up and active. Hopefully.

Sloonei has a hard time fathoming these two as your top suspects.

[Sloonei]

Today's Epi is the Epi I felt was missing from the first 2 days. I'm not currently voting for him, but I'd like to offer up a symbolic /unvote of Epi.

[Sloonei]

And trying to spin this AGAINST the Fuzz lynchers, if you're town, is just rampant paranoia and a refusal to beliebe that sometimes things can go well in this game. Day 2 was a major victory for town, whichever Family you belong to. Let's not squander it.

There is no method good enough that mafia can't subvert and turn against town.

No situation favorable enough that can't be used by mafia to give towncred to the wrong person.

No player too innocent to be bad.

No lynch result too obvious to be wrong.

No read too good to be wrong.

No act of bussing too suicidal to be impossible.

There are no absolutes in mafia. Ever.

yeah but like also sometimes 6 townies are just all right about the same thing at the same time.

[Sloonei]

To be clear, by "6 townies" I mean Golden, SVS, Silverwolf, ika, Turnip Head, and myself.

[Sloonei]

I'm not scum reading DDL or indi, but I'm not as confident about them.

[Sloonei]

Poor Matt and Wilgy, this isn't good. Two civs down in one night.

I am not mafia I will defend myself and have made my points, however I believe Golden is either mafia or tunneling and not willing to see that I am civ.

Which of these two scenarios do you think is true?

I want to say the first, but I don't want to tunnel on him in a No U kind off way. I do however, find his behavior surrounding the Fuzz lynch strange as well as the fact he became so sure and setting up bandwagons for today.

If you were a townie and you just played an integral part in pulling a surprise, last minte successful lynch of a baddie on Day 2 of a game, how do you think you would react?

[Epignosis]

To be clear, by "6 townies" I mean Golden, SVS, Silverwolf, ika, Turnip Head, and myself.

Silverwolf with that Golden vote.

[Sloonei]

Silverwolf, what are you doing!? You're tearing me apart, Silverwolf!

[indiglo]

A CFD that actually takes down a baddie is GOING to make baddies reveal themselves. They have to scramble like hell. It is only normal that some, even if they are good players, are going to reveal their hands in the chaos. That's the whole point of it.

That's the thing though...it makes the baddies reveal themselves if the target of the CFD is in fact a baddie. If it's not, the sudden pressure on them out of nowhere might make them appear as if they were a baddie because of how they might react to receiving so many votes out of nowhere. Given the result, I obviously don't have a problem with the lynch and though I'm still not a CFD fan I can't criticize how it played out this time, but I do think that the result it produced owed at least most of it to luck, and that there have got to be some baddies on that wagon.

Why? Especially since it appeared that ika had the most votes? If Fuzz had appeared to have the most votes, then I would definitely agree he had been heaved under the Greyhound. But, from the way it looked, it looked like ika had been lynched and he had been saved. Why would baddies do that?

I don't buy it.

Replying as I catch up...

This is where my head is at also SVS. The fact is that on the poll, ika came out with MORE votes than Fuzz... so it looked like Fuzz was safe. No need to bus a teammate that is safe.

[Golden]

To be clear, by "6 townies" I mean Golden, SVS, Silverwolf, ika, Turnip Head, and myself.

Silverwolf with that Golden vote.

I chalk it up to mafiascum paranoia. Doesn't bother me.

[indiglo]

I still think they are a horrid idea in general, but broken clocks and all that. However, I'm not sure I'd call what happened Day 2 "CFD." Fuzz's lynch was swift and unexpected, but it happened in a logical manner: Fuzz did something odd late in the Day, got called out for it, and there were a number of people who didn't like the three leading candidates and were seeking a viable fourth party. I'm glad they found one.

I think this is pretty much right. It's not like it was suggested just for kicks. It was suggested by people who a) didn't like any of the existing options and b) found an actual reason to be suspicious of someone that they all agreed was suspicious.

I feel lame posting ditto again, but these things made me say out loud "Yes! Thank you!" So there you go anyway. Ditto.

[Golden]

But, seriously, I find it difficult to understand how so many people struggle with the idea that a successful cfd catches baddies scrambling red handed. To me there is really no choice but to lynch the people who came out of yesterday looking worst.

Linki - Thanks Indi.

[Sloonei]

But, seriously, I find it difficult to understand how so many people struggle with the idea that a successful cfd catches baddies scrambling red handed. To me there is really no choice but to lynch the people who came out of yesterday looking worst.

Linki - Thanks Indi.

My short list is Enrique, Quin, and sig. Would you add or subtract any names?

[Epignosis]

But, seriously, I find it difficult to understand how so many people struggle with the idea that a successful cfd catches baddies scrambling red handed. To me there is really no choice but to lynch the people who came out of yesterday looking worst.

Linki - Thanks Indi.

My own issue is your qualifier: "Successful." How often do you see those? I don't think anyone struggles with a successful lynch of Mafia by whatever means (except Enrique ).

[Sloonei]

I want to make sure that sig, Enrique and the other anti-CFDers get their proper day in court. It's easy to assume they're all baddies caught with their pants down but it almost feels like thats too easy. For all we know the rest of the fuzz weren't even around at EoD.

I feel like I've already run out of things to say on the topic, but I will reiterate that I wasn't against the CFD as a concept, but I thought at the time that Fuzz was the wrong choice. Of course, whoever you chose I would have stuck with ika.

I have about an hour until I have to go to uni, so I'll answer any questions before then.

But see this is why I find you so scummy. If you're on board with the CFD concept, then it means you should be on board with lynching a player without a whole lot of discussion or reasoning. It's supposed to be a spontaneous, spur of the moment thing. But then you objected to lynching Fuzz because there wasn't enough reason and discussion. So on the one hand, you say you're on board with the concept, but then on the other hand you completely reject the concept when it's put into practice. I see this as a contradiction, and it's not unreasonable to think this is because you were trying to save a teammate.

[indiglo]

I don't think Golden wants to get me lynched.

Not as imminently as today.

In the event you are civ, and Quin is cop (which I think there is a decent possibility of) it is a good way to try to make today look like a linear choice between two people who aren't his teammates.

I really am trying to lynch sig, not DDL.

Couldn't you say the same thing about what you're doing for sig? You're reading my suspicions as though I'm creating an ultimatum. I've given my thoughts on loads of other players, but you're homing in on this post. Whether you wanted him lynched today or tomorrow, I don't think it matters. You did say you scumread him and argued that point seriously. Typically, scum = lynch. Did your opinion on him change so I missed it?

The nerd in me got so tickled by your correct use of this idiom. It so rarely gets said properly, and I just wanted to mention how much I enjoyed it. (I always see "honing in on"... which is not a big deal, but I am a nerd.)

[Sloonei]

I'm not feeling an ika lynch today. I think I want to just stare at him for the next 48 hours and psycho-analyse his every breath. Maybe we can have a coffee together. Make a day of it. I've got nobody else to talk to anyway.

I'll be voting between Golden and Luffy today. I think their interactions make it clear that if one of them is mafia, the other probably isn't. They both bring up very extremely good points against each other and I feel as though they legitimately want each other lynched.

I'll place the actual vote tonight when I get home from uni. I want to sit on it for a while.

I also do not like this logic. I think it's reckless to set up a lynch of one of two players just because it's unlikely that they're both bad. What if they are both good? And also what about either one of them makes you think they're bad?
Tell me how you interpret Enrique's behavior at the end of the day yesterday.

[Sloonei]

I don't think Golden wants to get me lynched.

Not as imminently as today.

In the event you are civ, and Quin is cop (which I think there is a decent possibility of) it is a good way to try to make today look like a linear choice between two people who aren't his teammates.

I really am trying to lynch sig, not DDL.

Couldn't you say the same thing about what you're doing for sig? You're reading my suspicions as though I'm creating an ultimatum. I've given my thoughts on loads of other players, but you're homing in on this post. Whether you wanted him lynched today or tomorrow, I don't think it matters. You did say you scumread him and argued that point seriously. Typically, scum = lynch. Did your opinion on him change so I missed it?

But you expressed your suspicion as though you're creating an all tomato.

[Sloonei]

Since a big part of my townie strategy relies on cooperation and teamwork, even when we can't be 100% certain who's on our team, can I ask anyone who is currently reading me as town to give me your thoughts on Enrique, sig, and Quin. I sincerely feel like all three of them are bad right now, and I'll be shocked if none of them are. But I don't want to put my own blinders on and tunnel after all three of them and make a poor decision. I want to hear what others think.

[Epignosis]

I'm not feeling an ika lynch today. I think I want to just stare at him for the next 48 hours and psycho-analyse his every breath. Maybe we can have a coffee together. Make a day of it. I've got nobody else to talk to anyway.

I'll be voting between Golden and Luffy today. I think their interactions make it clear that if one of them is mafia, the other probably isn't. They both bring up very extremely good points against each other and I feel as though they legitimately want each other lynched.

I'll place the actual vote tonight when I get home from uni. I want to sit on it for a while.

I also do not like this logic. I think it's reckless to set up a lynch of one of two players just because it's unlikely that they're both bad. What if they are both good? And also what about either one of them makes you think they're bad?
Tell me how you interpret Enrique's behavior at the end of the day yesterday.

Two players? I thought Quin was voting me for some quality information. Damn.

[Sloonei]

even if you don't have a town read on me, would you be so kind as to do that anyway? anyone who's not a cop should do it. If you're a cop, please state as much here, so that I can exempt you from having to do this.

[Epignosis]

Silverwolf, why did you vote Golden?

[Silverwolf]

OK, So I had this big long post typed up and pretty much lost it all due to my computer being stupid . I'm super frustrated right now and am gonna take a breather and try again in a little bit.

I did vote for Golden and will explain as well as give a few reads on others also. I'm gonna ISO Fuzz right now and look at interactions with others, then come back to this again.

[indiglo]

First off, wow what a night!

Matt, I am sorry for suspecting you. Apologies. I had no read on Wilgy, but sorry that you died. You are quite entertaining, and were also a warm civ/mafia body. to both of you.


Next, I am most inclined to look at Sig today. I feel like I am always pulling up the rear in this game, and by the time I finally catch up, everything I was going to say has already been said.


Here's something I have been stewing on though:

I did think DDL's reaction to the CFD (which I'm using as a term for it, even though it isn't 100% accurate) on Fuzz was odd. But there was 1 thing that happened that I found interesting about him. First, he was against the CFD. Then he finally jumped on. Ok, so maybe pingy. But then (who was it, was it Sloon? Scotty? Someone with an S name?) someone mentioned perhaps shifting the CFD over to Matt (I think) and DDL came out swiftly saying "No this isn't turbo mafia." So then that gave me pause, if DDL were Fuzz's teammate, and a better CFD candidate came up (ie, someone NOT your teammate) I would think you would jump all over THAT to save your teammate. So that makes me think perhaps DDL is not a cop. Any thoughts on that little bit? I can go back and find the quotes if needed, I know my recollection is accurate, but if anyone would like further corroboration I'm happy to go back and try to find it again.


Linki~

[Sloonei]

OK, So I had this big long post typed up and pretty much lost it all due to my computer being stupid . I'm super frustrated right now and am gonna take a breather and try again in a little bit.

I did vote for Golden and will explain as well as give a few reads on others also. I'm gonna ISO Fuzz right now and look at interactions with others, then come back to this again.

I highly recommend you change your vote.

[indiglo]

EBWOP

*pretty accurate

Fingers!!! Move fast, like brain!!!