The Syndicate

Long Con wrote:

Jackofhearts2005 wrote:

Long Con wrote:

Jackofhearts2005 wrote:

Long Con wrote:I don't have a lot of time right now, I just wanted to catch up on the night's posts. I'll just give a rainbow for now, then do farm chores, shower, and go to work... arriving home in perhaps 5 hours from now, give or take half an hour. Then some family time and dinner, but that still leaves time within that 13 hours before lynch time.

Nutella
Golden
Dyslexicon
Quin
Sloonei
Elohcin
juliets
Soneji
insertnamehere
Fredwood
Scotty
Strawhenge
Jackofhearts
JJJ
Speedchuck

Hey LC.

Who am I scumbuddies with? Speed or Scotty?

Speed, I suspect him much more.

You serious? The guy I've been after all game that is now voting for me?

Oh I get it, it's a trap...

It's a question.

If I'm gonna get mislynched, I'm gonna make sure every townie voting for me sees inconsistencies and has a chance to back off and every scummer gets called out on those inconsistencies.

So which one are you?

Jackofhearts2005 wrote:

Dyslexicon wrote:

Jackofhearts2005 wrote:Same question, here.

You think I'm scum? Who are my buddies?

(Spoiler alert. I am town.)

If you're town, then why are you asking this?
It serves no purpose as town.

Also, answer me, why were you so occupied with if you were linked to Quin or Sloonei?

Cause I've been strictly against several of the players I'm supposedly teammates with, according to my accusers. Makes no sense. They should reconsider.

I wasn't occupied with the link. I dismissed it. JJJ questioned my dismissal. I explained my dismissal. The end. People stop asking me about it and I'll stop talking about it.

Tying to format a post just so I can point out that this is a lie, but I can't quote 7 quotes or something again.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote:Can you quote the posts I was occupied with it? I think you'll find I made one or two very short posts about it plus answering questions/comments from other players.

No, it doesn't matter. It's my perception of it that's important to me. And you're still doing it.
You can't win with me, mwahahaha!

speedchuck wrote:

Scotty wrote: What do you think of jack?

Not great.

speedchuck wrote:

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: Note the extreme tone difference between my question and Quinn's accusation.

Also note that I have disagreed with the Dizzy lynch and put him as town. While Quin, INH and MM were after Dizzy, I was voting Scotty. Was gonna answer Quin's question towards me on Dizzy but figured I'd just clutter the thread with more linkis. Was sure she was town. Had already said so.

Can we be friends again?

Coming back with a full rainbow in a couple hours.

This post makes me feel happy/nervous.
Like, it's a reasonable come-around and I was hoping for it, but also feels suspiciously like backtracking in a slow way to avoid town wrath.
Sry Jack I am catching up and making notes about shifts like this and whatnot. Not necessarily wanting to murder your face yet.
But this post is important.

This, combined with my earlier saying that there is a scum in Golden/JJJ/Jack/Strawhenge (That was a gut feel.)
Good feelings about Golden right now.
Strawhenge is gone.
JJJ just got cleared.

Jack, today at least, seemed like he was going along with Quin (possibly misinformed towny, it's hard to read someone when you don't understand their thought process) without committing too hard, seeing if the lynch could be pushed toward Sloonei/other people that lynched mM.
Other days I've been iffy about him.
Strong anti-alignment with JJJ.
As Sloonei just pointed out, he's been iffy toward Marmot.
I could vote for Jack. What are the votals at?

Secondary suspicions that I want to iron out at the moment:
INH (I lumped him with mm yesterday, because they were buddying insanely. Could be scum taking town town with them, or... blatant buddying. Everything else was blatant at EOD.
Fredwood (Sorry, I've read you as town all game, but if Jack is bad, gotta reeval)
Soneji
Mayybe long con

Scotty isn't entirely in the clear, but I like his posts enough at the moment to not kick up a fuss over giving him time to use his role.

I have to reveal what? If he's bad? I've been suspicious of Jack in every post I've mentioned him. My assumption is that of Golden/JJJ/and Jack that 2 are town and one is scum, with Jack leading. Golden has lessened on Jack a bit, but day one was a triumvirate of bickering. I can't say that Jack has done something overtly scummy this game, but the others have given more information they did not need to (IE not under pressure to do so), and have given more indication in other regards to imply that they're more likely civ.

My main issue is the view that he's the most suspicious of all available scum reads.

And this post, which is the one giving me formatting issues.

The first two are justified, being the initial statement and an elaboration. The rest are brought up on his own power, without prompting by anybody else.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Note about Jack: he's been willing to change his mind in this game which is generally something I appreciate, but it has happened in ways that strike me as unnatural. His perspectives have consistently started in a unique, personal place and then adapted to more conventional/popular reads. I'd say that about his read on me, his treatment of Sloonei and Quin today, and his suspicion of speedchuck (his enthusiasm for it appears to be declining against Sloonei's town read.

My concern is that he is finding comfort zones and that his reads aren't developing within a personal mindset -- they're shifting with public opinion.

My reads on Sloonei and Speed have everything to do with how stupid (or unnecessarily ballsy) they'd have had to have been to be scummates with Marmot.

It has nothing to do with popular opinion.

My read on you started out good as you were scumhunting, went south as we had strategic disagreements about slipgate, further went down when you came up with that tinfoil about Nacho's joke post and how only I would kill him. You've now gone back up due to being copped by a player I trust.

Also nothing to do with popular opinion.

My treatment of Quin as town was because I liked how he handled slipgate and thought I agreed with him on Sloonei cause I wasn't caught up. He went down to yellow with a question mark when he basically threw out some of that (going after Diz, who I solidly read as town) and I caught up to the point where I found I agreed with Sloonei, not Quin. I pushed a bit on him but I was really tired and obviously not up to the challenged. So I laughed at it and left it for the night.

Again, popular opinion had nothing to do with my read.

Long Con wrote: You mean lynching Marmot for credit, right?

Yes, that's what I was looking for.

I could go into a long rant about how that doesn't make sense. How scum would lose more than they gain. How tin-foily and non-occam's razor it is.

But all that would do is show you that I've thought it through. Probably. I don't usually think things out before I say them, this post being an example.
So don't give me any credit. Don't rely on my Marmot lynch. Look at me, in this game, outside of the lynch which is either a crazy bus or confirmed town move.

Ignoring the lynch (which I haven't been trying to ride on, even as much as Sloonei has, if you'd notice that), do I seem scummy to you?

@Fredwood
I said I had to reeval. That was not a typo. Reevaluate. You might come off looking better if I get the chance to go back and look. Might come off worse. Someone mentioned worse. I got to look and I don't have time to dig tonight.

Dyslexicon wrote:

speedchuck wrote: @Dizzy
Believe it's JoH. Gonna look at INH if I get a second tonight. I really shouldn't be on this forum right now, I have deadlines. :s

Then why did you say Jack had a town reason for asking who his teammates was? Or did you misread my post? I explicitly asked him what his town reasons was for asking that - and you said you see what he's doing (as town???).

Scum do towny things sometimes, or this wouldn't be so easy. I am currently looking through Jack's friends/whatever to answer his question for myself. The vote might come off if I feel like the answer warrants it.

Fredwood wrote:

speedchuck wrote:

Scotty wrote: What do you think of jack?

Not great.

speedchuck wrote:

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: Note the extreme tone difference between my question and Quinn's accusation.

Also note that I have disagreed with the Dizzy lynch and put him as town. While Quin, INH and MM were after Dizzy, I was voting Scotty. Was gonna answer Quin's question towards me on Dizzy but figured I'd just clutter the thread with more linkis. Was sure she was town. Had already said so.

Can we be friends again?

Coming back with a full rainbow in a couple hours.

This post makes me feel happy/nervous.
Like, it's a reasonable come-around and I was hoping for it, but also feels suspiciously like backtracking in a slow way to avoid town wrath.
Sry Jack I am catching up and making notes about shifts like this and whatnot. Not necessarily wanting to murder your face yet.
But this post is important.

This, combined with my earlier saying that there is a scum in Golden/JJJ/Jack/Strawhenge (That was a gut feel.)
Good feelings about Golden right now.
Strawhenge is gone.
JJJ just got cleared.

Jack, today at least, seemed like he was going along with Quin (possibly misinformed towny, it's hard to read someone when you don't understand their thought process) without committing too hard, seeing if the lynch could be pushed toward Sloonei/other people that lynched mM.
Other days I've been iffy about him.
Strong anti-alignment with JJJ.
As Sloonei just pointed out, he's been iffy toward Marmot.
I could vote for Jack. What are the votals at?

Secondary suspicions that I want to iron out at the moment:
INH (I lumped him with mm yesterday, because they were buddying insanely. Could be scum taking town town with them, or... blatant buddying. Everything else was blatant at EOD.
Fredwood (Sorry, I've read you as town all game, but if Jack is bad, gotta reeval)
Soneji
Mayybe long con

Scotty isn't entirely in the clear, but I like his posts enough at the moment to not kick up a fuss over giving him time to use his role.

I have to reveal what? If he's bad? I've been suspicious of Jack in every post I've mentioned him. My assumption is that of Golden/JJJ/and Jack that 2 are town and one is scum, with Jack leading. Golden has lessened on Jack a bit, but day one was a triumvirate of bickering. I can't say that Jack has done something overtly scummy this game, but the others have given more information they did not need to (IE not under pressure to do so), and have given more indication in other regards to imply that they're more likely civ.

My main issue is the view that he's the most suspicious of all available scum reads.

Why am I most suspicious? Be specific.

And I won't give you slack on this read. Make it good.

Quin wrote:

Spoiler: show

Jackofhearts2005 wrote:

nutella wrote:Oooo. Jack simultaneously jumping on Sloonei for the change in heart while not realizing that Quin has already brought up the same. Not a good look for the pair of them.

I'd rather you pair me with Quin than Sloonei at this point.

I may revise that statement in 3 pages.

Spoiler: show

Jackofhearts2005 wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:My face when people still try to lynch Dizzy, who I think would not be near the conversation minus SlipGate:

My face when Sloonei doesn't give a shit about his prior stances and places a vote:

My face when Sloonei's vote helps kill a bad guy: /// ///

My face when Quin goes straight to Tinfoil Town to the point of self-parody:

My face when Sloonei had the necessary content in his post history to justify a Dizzy vote but instead voted for a confirmed baddie and people act like that's scummy:

My face when Sloonei is a town read:

My face when Jack for some reason cares about which scum teammate nutella assigns to him:

My face when posts like this are in my ISO:

Do people around here stop caring about progression just because a mafia player got lynched? Is bussing a thing that never happens?

If I read Quin as town and Sloonei as null as of a few pages before the end of yesterday and then Sloonei does a thing that makes me suspect him.

I know I'm town. If you pair me with someone I think is town as w/w suspects, either I or said townie can convince you and I don't have to worry about getting mislynched.

If you pair me with someone I think may be scum as w/w suspects, every scummy thing and an eventual mafia flip from that other guy just increases my chance of getting mislynched.

Spoiler: show

Jackofhearts2005 wrote:

Sloonei wrote:

Jackofhearts2005 wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:My face when people still try to lynch Dizzy, who I think would not be near the conversation minus SlipGate:

My face when Sloonei doesn't give a shit about his prior stances and places a vote:

My face when Sloonei's vote helps kill a bad guy: /// ///

My face when Quin goes straight to Tinfoil Town to the point of self-parody:

My face when Sloonei had the necessary content in his post history to justify a Dizzy vote but instead voted for a confirmed baddie and people act like that's scummy:

My face when Sloonei is a town read:

My face when Jack for some reason cares about which scum teammate nutella assigns to him:

My face when posts like this are in my ISO:

Do people around here stop caring about progression just because a mafia player got lynched? Is bussing a thing that never happens?

If I read Quin as town and Sloonei as null as of a few pages before the end of yesterday and then Sloonei does a thing that makes me suspect him.

I know I'm town. If you pair me with someone I think is town as w/w suspects, either I or said townie can convince you and I don't have to worry about getting mislynched.

If you pair me with someone I think may be scum as w/w suspects, every scummy thing and an eventual mafia flip from that other guy just increases my chance of getting mislynched.

Why was I suspicious prior to the marmot vote?

Sorsha stuff. You were a pretty null read prior to today. Lotsa questions but nothing pro or con in my book.

I suspected you a bit based on your "MM is town" post when you voted MM. Suspected you more when you answered my question by accusing me of being scum.

Then or now, I'd rather be paired with Quin cause I think he has a greater chance of being town.

Spoiler: show

Jackofhearts2005 wrote:

Sloonei wrote:

Quin wrote:GTH reads after everything that's happened today, with a few exclusions.

Civ:
INH
Marmot
Long Con
Silver
Golden
speedchuck
Scotty

Bad:
3J
JOH
Sloonei
nutella
Dizzy
Fredwood

Quin gave us these very interesting GTH reads shortly before the deadline. Many of these reads should have changed, I think. I'd like to hear his thought process about why I was bad and the marmot was good in particular.

Yeesh.

Golden is the only living player I agree with on that rainbow. Maybe LC now that I'm suspecting INH and I'm pretty sure they aren't W/W.

Maybe I should be wary about being paired with Quin.

And this post, which is the one giving me formatting issues.

The first two are justified, being the initial statement and an elaboration. The rest are brought up on his own power, without prompting by anybody else.

Fair point.

In my head, those last two were more about you, less about pairing.

speedchuck wrote:

Long Con wrote: You mean lynching Marmot for credit, right?

Yes, that's what I was looking for.

I could go into a long rant about how that doesn't make sense. How scum would lose more than they gain. How tin-foily and non-occam's razor it is.

But all that would do is show you that I've thought it through. Probably. I don't usually think things out before I say them, this post being an example.
So don't give me any credit. Don't rely on my Marmot lynch. Look at me, in this game, outside of the lynch which is either a crazy bus or confirmed town move.

Ignoring the lynch (which I haven't been trying to ride on, even as much as Sloonei has, if you'd notice that), do I seem scummy to you?

@Fredwood
I said I had to reeval. That was not a typo. Reevaluate. You might come off looking better if I get the chance to go back and look. Might come off worse. Someone mentioned worse. I got to look and I don't have time to dig tonight.

Dyslexicon wrote:

speedchuck wrote: @Dizzy
Believe it's JoH. Gonna look at INH if I get a second tonight. I really shouldn't be on this forum right now, I have deadlines. :s

Then why did you say Jack had a town reason for asking who his teammates was? Or did you misread my post? I explicitly asked him what his town reasons was for asking that - and you said you see what he's doing (as town???).

Scum do towny things sometimes, or this wouldn't be so easy. I am currently looking through Jack's friends/whatever to answer his question for myself. The vote might come off if I feel like the answer warrants it.

Oh ok, my bad, so far everyone seems to have a shifting sense of the rainbow with their reads sometimes changing on a whim, so it only seems fair.

To this point, Aside from Quin, no one has really asked me anything to defend or pushed on me aside from

" DUNNO, I dun like him "

Quin wrote:
GTH reads after everything that's happened today, with a few exclusions.

Civ:
INH
Marmot
Long Con
Silver
Golden
speedchuck
Scotty

Bad:
3J
JOH
Sloonei
nutella
Dizzy
Fredwood

How much do you still agree with this rainbow, Quin?

Literally one of my supposed scumbuddies is undecided on me. The rest are saying I'm at the top of their scum list.

Who are my buddies? (Trick question. I don't have any. Answer anyway.)

Fredwood wrote:

speedchuck wrote:

Long Con wrote: You mean lynching Marmot for credit, right?

Yes, that's what I was looking for.

I could go into a long rant about how that doesn't make sense. How scum would lose more than they gain. How tin-foily and non-occam's razor it is.

But all that would do is show you that I've thought it through. Probably. I don't usually think things out before I say them, this post being an example.
So don't give me any credit. Don't rely on my Marmot lynch. Look at me, in this game, outside of the lynch which is either a crazy bus or confirmed town move.

Ignoring the lynch (which I haven't been trying to ride on, even as much as Sloonei has, if you'd notice that), do I seem scummy to you?

@Fredwood
I said I had to reeval. That was not a typo. Reevaluate. You might come off looking better if I get the chance to go back and look. Might come off worse. Someone mentioned worse. I got to look and I don't have time to dig tonight.

Dyslexicon wrote:

speedchuck wrote: @Dizzy
Believe it's JoH. Gonna look at INH if I get a second tonight. I really shouldn't be on this forum right now, I have deadlines. :s

Then why did you say Jack had a town reason for asking who his teammates was? Or did you misread my post? I explicitly asked him what his town reasons was for asking that - and you said you see what he's doing (as town???).

Scum do towny things sometimes, or this wouldn't be so easy. I am currently looking through Jack's friends/whatever to answer his question for myself. The vote might come off if I feel like the answer warrants it.

Oh ok, my bad, so far everyone seems to have a shifting sense of the rainbow with their reads sometimes changing on a whim, so it only seems fair.

To this point, Aside from Quin, no one has really asked me anything to defend or pushed on me aside from

" DUNNO, I dun like him "

I like to be different.

What's left to answer?

My read on Quin and inconsistent read/unclear progression on Scotty?

Anything else I need to look into?

Jackofhearts2005 wrote:Fred, what are you thinking? Who is scum? Who is town?

Don't be neutral. I will give you slack later for ill conceived arguments as long as you actually make some reads.

It'll be good for you.

Not a big fan of this post. Can you explain what you were trying to do here? Specifically in when you prematurely said you'd give him slack for his reads? Why would it be good for him?

juliets wrote:

Quin wrote:Vote JOH

Because shapes.

Ok, I was trying not to place the 5th vote but since its been placed I am voting now. I'm not sure I understand what the hammer vote is.

Vote JOH

Wait...am I already dead?

Jackofhearts2005 wrote:

Fredwood wrote:

speedchuck wrote:

Scotty wrote: What do you think of jack?

Not great.

speedchuck wrote:

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: Note the extreme tone difference between my question and Quinn's accusation.

Also note that I have disagreed with the Dizzy lynch and put him as town. While Quin, INH and MM were after Dizzy, I was voting Scotty. Was gonna answer Quin's question towards me on Dizzy but figured I'd just clutter the thread with more linkis. Was sure she was town. Had already said so.

Can we be friends again?

Coming back with a full rainbow in a couple hours.

This post makes me feel happy/nervous.
Like, it's a reasonable come-around and I was hoping for it, but also feels suspiciously like backtracking in a slow way to avoid town wrath.
Sry Jack I am catching up and making notes about shifts like this and whatnot. Not necessarily wanting to murder your face yet.
But this post is important.

This, combined with my earlier saying that there is a scum in Golden/JJJ/Jack/Strawhenge (That was a gut feel.)
Good feelings about Golden right now.
Strawhenge is gone.
JJJ just got cleared.

Jack, today at least, seemed like he was going along with Quin (possibly misinformed towny, it's hard to read someone when you don't understand their thought process) without committing too hard, seeing if the lynch could be pushed toward Sloonei/other people that lynched mM.
Other days I've been iffy about him.
Strong anti-alignment with JJJ.
As Sloonei just pointed out, he's been iffy toward Marmot.
I could vote for Jack. What are the votals at?

Secondary suspicions that I want to iron out at the moment:
INH (I lumped him with mm yesterday, because they were buddying insanely. Could be scum taking town town with them, or... blatant buddying. Everything else was blatant at EOD.
Fredwood (Sorry, I've read you as town all game, but if Jack is bad, gotta reeval)
Soneji
Mayybe long con

Scotty isn't entirely in the clear, but I like his posts enough at the moment to not kick up a fuss over giving him time to use his role.

I have to reveal what? If he's bad? I've been suspicious of Jack in every post I've mentioned him. My assumption is that of Golden/JJJ/and Jack that 2 are town and one is scum, with Jack leading. Golden has lessened on Jack a bit, but day one was a triumvirate of bickering. I can't say that Jack has done something overtly scummy this game, but the others have given more information they did not need to (IE not under pressure to do so), and have given more indication in other regards to imply that they're more likely civ.

My main issue is the view that he's the most suspicious of all available scum reads.

Why am I most suspicious? Be specific.

And I won't give you slack on this read. Make it good.

lol, I literally said it in the post. Based of the bickering between the 3 of you, my assumption is that one is scum trying to confuse the sheep from following blindly. If you pro and con it, JJJ and Golden have more pros then you (eluded to some specific instances in the post and some others that I chose not to get into because I have mentioned them previously), so thus (POE) you are trailing in the civ read department atm. I said that I don't think it's a strong enough case to lynch you at the moment, but apparently this is the way the wind is blowing. I'm a careful and patient voter, and I don't think I'm just a follower, I will say that I will be unlikely to vote for you this phase barring some dramatic revelation or argument that I hadn't considered, but I do think I've been nothing if consistent in my reads of everyone, which I admit may just be confirmation bias.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote:

juliets wrote:

Quin wrote:Vote JOH

Because shapes.

Ok, I was trying not to place the 5th vote but since its been placed I am voting now. I'm not sure I understand what the hammer vote is.

Vote JOH

Wait...am I already dead?

No, you're in soft lynch territory. You need like 10 or 11 for the hard lynch.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote:

juliets wrote:

Quin wrote:Vote JOH

Because shapes.

Ok, I was trying not to place the 5th vote but since its been placed I am voting now. I'm not sure I understand what the hammer vote is.

Vote JOH

Wait...am I already dead?

No, I think there's still only 4 votes on you, hammer would be 9 I think, soft would be 5

Quin wrote:

Jackofhearts2005 wrote:Fred, what are you thinking? Who is scum? Who is town?

Don't be neutral. I will give you slack later for ill conceived arguments as long as you actually make some reads.

It'll be good for you.

Not a big fan of this post. Can you explain what you were trying to do here? Specifically in when you prematurely said you'd give him slack for his reads? Why would it be good for him?

Fred never scumhunts.

I want him to scumhunt both so I can evaluate him (and other players) in this game and because it will make him a better player, one who is more fun to play with.

I offered slack cause I don't want waffly reads from him, which I expect I would get due to his uncertainty of his own skill as a player.

It would be good for him cause he needs practice scumhunting to be a better mafia player.

Fredwood wrote:

Jackofhearts2005 wrote:

juliets wrote:

Quin wrote:Vote JOH

Because shapes.

Ok, I was trying not to place the 5th vote but since its been placed I am voting now. I'm not sure I understand what the hammer vote is.

Vote JOH

Wait...am I already dead?

No, I think there's still only 4 votes on you, hammer would be 9 I think, soft would be 5

I was confused earlier and thought 5 was the hammer. I actually think there are 6 votes out there on Jack. Quin was 5, I was 6. I don't think anyone has voted since have they?

Quin wrote:

Jackofhearts2005 wrote:Fred, what are you thinking? Who is scum? Who is town?

Don't be neutral. I will give you slack later for ill conceived arguments as long as you actually make some reads.

It'll be good for you.

Not a big fan of this post. Can you explain what you were trying to do here? Specifically in when you prematurely said you'd give him slack for his reads? Why would it be good for him?

Cus I don't scumhunt, this is literally the first time I've ever attempted to be so frivolous with my reads. Typically I depend on mechanics to support suspicions before I even voice them, I'm typically very strong the later the game goes, it's actually why I have a pretty good win percentage at the realms, because I'm not viewed as a threat I guess. I pay attention to what is said, and will go back if I feel something is warranted to look into, but I typically don't put a lot of stock in early game posturing. So I am actually trying something different...

If I may answer his question and be all overtly braggadocio in my personal assessment.

Three players bickering does not a mafia player make.

Though it may gain me a vote, I find this argument dishonest.

Fredwood wrote:
<snip>

lol, I literally said it in the post. Based of the bickering between the 3 of you, my assumption is that one is scum trying to confuse the sheep from following blindly. If you pro and con it, JJJ and Golden have more pros then you (eluded to some specific instances in the post and some others that I chose not to get into because I have mentioned them previously), so thus (POE) you are trailing in the civ read department atm. I said that I don't think it's a strong enough case to lynch you at the moment, but apparently this is the way the wind is blowing. I'm a careful and patient voter, and I don't think I'm just a follower, I will say that I will be unlikely to vote for you this phase barring some dramatic revelation or argument that I hadn't considered, but I do think I've been nothing if consistent in my reads of everyone, which I admit may just be confirmation bias.

Fred, who are you looking at voting for this round?

link - I don't know what a "typical is"

OH SORRY - you meant the word typical! I thought it was some mafia term I didn't know!

Jackofhearts2005 wrote:

Spoiler: show

Fredwood wrote:

Jackofhearts2005 wrote:

Fredwood wrote:

speedchuck wrote:

Scotty wrote: What do you think of jack?

Not great.

speedchuck wrote:

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: Note the extreme tone difference between my question and Quinn's accusation.

Also note that I have disagreed with the Dizzy lynch and put him as town. While Quin, INH and MM were after Dizzy, I was voting Scotty. Was gonna answer Quin's question towards me on Dizzy but figured I'd just clutter the thread with more linkis. Was sure she was town. Had already said so.

Can we be friends again?

Coming back with a full rainbow in a couple hours.

This post makes me feel happy/nervous.
Like, it's a reasonable come-around and I was hoping for it, but also feels suspiciously like backtracking in a slow way to avoid town wrath.
Sry Jack I am catching up and making notes about shifts like this and whatnot. Not necessarily wanting to murder your face yet.
But this post is important.

This, combined with my earlier saying that there is a scum in Golden/JJJ/Jack/Strawhenge (That was a gut feel.)
Good feelings about Golden right now.
Strawhenge is gone.
JJJ just got cleared.

Jack, today at least, seemed like he was going along with Quin (possibly misinformed towny, it's hard to read someone when you don't understand their thought process) without committing too hard, seeing if the lynch could be pushed toward Sloonei/other people that lynched mM.
Other days I've been iffy about him.
Strong anti-alignment with JJJ.
As Sloonei just pointed out, he's been iffy toward Marmot.
I could vote for Jack. What are the votals at?

Secondary suspicions that I want to iron out at the moment:
INH (I lumped him with mm yesterday, because they were buddying insanely. Could be scum taking town town with them, or... blatant buddying. Everything else was blatant at EOD.
Fredwood (Sorry, I've read you as town all game, but if Jack is bad, gotta reeval)
Soneji
Mayybe long con

Scotty isn't entirely in the clear, but I like his posts enough at the moment to not kick up a fuss over giving him time to use his role.

I have to reveal what? If he's bad? I've been suspicious of Jack in every post I've mentioned him. My assumption is that of Golden/JJJ/and Jack that 2 are town and one is scum, with Jack leading. Golden has lessened on Jack a bit, but day one was a triumvirate of bickering. I can't say that Jack has done something overtly scummy this game, but the others have given more information they did not need to (IE not under pressure to do so), and have given more indication in other regards to imply that they're more likely civ.

My main issue is the view that he's the most suspicious of all available scum reads.

Why am I most suspicious? Be specific.

And I won't give you slack on this read. Make it good.

lol, I literally said it in the post. Based of the bickering between the 3 of you, my assumption is that one is scum trying to confuse the sheep from following blindly. If you pro and con it, JJJ and Golden have more pros then you (eluded to some specific instances in the post and some others that I chose not to get into because I have mentioned them previously), so thus (POE) you are trailing in the civ read department atm. I said that I don't think it's a strong enough case to lynch you at the moment, but apparently this is the way the wind is blowing. I'm a careful and patient voter, and I don't think I'm just a follower, I will say that I will be unlikely to vote for you this phase barring some dramatic revelation or argument that I hadn't considered, but I do think I've been nothing if consistent in my reads of everyone, which I admit may just be confirmation bias.

Three players bickering does not a mafia player make.

Though it may gain me a vote, I find this argument dishonest.

Dishonest how? In that I don't really assume that?

I see 3 strong players, I see them all fighting amongst themselves. 1 player I know is carefully specific in what he puts out to be consumed, 2 others that I get the impression do the same.

So I says to myself, "Self, why would all 3 of these strong careful players be going after each other rather aggressively so early"

"Well Self, you are handsome and astute, but it appears that one of these smart intelligent and crafty players is actually trying to discredit the other smart intelligent and crafty, and most likely well-endowed players to cause confusion amongst the rest of the sheeple that depend on these strong, confident, supremely coiffed player to competently run the early day phases."

"Self, I am proud of your suspicion that is completely unfounded and based of extrapolation and massive leaps in logic, but is slightly defendable if you are called on it, despite it's inherit gamesmanship logic, because you have witnessed shenanigans like this before"

Frankly, if one of you 3 aren't mafia I'll give you my address and you can steal my 10 disc Alien boxset. If that's dishonest, I dunno, my read and logic may be flawed, but it certainly isn't dishonest.

Sloonei wrote:Speedchuck is intriguing me. I see nothing but an exuberant townie when I look at him, but then he's a leading suspect for a number of other people. I am wondering if there's something I am overlooking.

And the more I think about it, the less I like some of JOH's waffly posts on the marmot. How do others feel about their interactons?

Please keep in mind, I have never played with town Marmot and he has a weird play style.

It is really hard to tell what is scum Marmot and what is just Marmot.

juliets wrote:

Fredwood wrote:
<snip>

lol, I literally said it in the post. Based of the bickering between the 3 of you, my assumption is that one is scum trying to confuse the sheep from following blindly. If you pro and con it, JJJ and Golden have more pros then you (eluded to some specific instances in the post and some others that I chose not to get into because I have mentioned them previously), so thus (POE) you are trailing in the civ read department atm. I said that I don't think it's a strong enough case to lynch you at the moment, but apparently this is the way the wind is blowing. I'm a careful and patient voter, and I don't think I'm just a follower, I will say that I will be unlikely to vote for you this phase barring some dramatic revelation or argument that I hadn't considered, but I do think I've been nothing if consistent in my reads of everyone, which I admit may just be confirmation bias.

Fred, who are you looking at voting for this round?

link - I don't know what a "typical is"

Scotty, Soneji

I think INH is a possible lynch and would be fine with lynching. But his aggressiveness has at least been consistent.

Fredwood wrote:

juliets wrote:

Fredwood wrote:
<snip>

lol, I literally said it in the post. Based of the bickering between the 3 of you, my assumption is that one is scum trying to confuse the sheep from following blindly. If you pro and con it, JJJ and Golden have more pros then you (eluded to some specific instances in the post and some others that I chose not to get into because I have mentioned them previously), so thus (POE) you are trailing in the civ read department atm. I said that I don't think it's a strong enough case to lynch you at the moment, but apparently this is the way the wind is blowing. I'm a careful and patient voter, and I don't think I'm just a follower, I will say that I will be unlikely to vote for you this phase barring some dramatic revelation or argument that I hadn't considered, but I do think I've been nothing if consistent in my reads of everyone, which I admit may just be confirmation bias.

Fred, who are you looking at voting for this round?

link - I don't know what a "typical is"

Scotty, Soneji

I think INH is a possible lynch and would be fine with lynching. But his aggressiveness has at least been consistent.

Speaking of...hello

@Fred

How many times have you seen me go at it early with Rokk and/or Silver go at it only to have us turn out to both/all be town?

I don't believe that you really think good players + aggressiveness + disagreement = mafia.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote:@Fred

How many times have you seen me go at it early with Rokk and/or Silver go at it only to have us turn out to both/all be town?

I don't believe that you really think good players + aggressiveness + disagreement = mafia.

It's not common enough to be treated as WIFOM (am I using that correctly?).

So I've been both busy IRL and with running my own game on NF, disheartened with how far behind I've become in this game. I have tried just reading the last couple pages and looking into my suspects from before, along with vote counts from the first two lynches. The thing that stood out to me most while going through all this was that Fredwood didn't have a vote listed for D1 or D2 in the final vote counts, so I looked through his post history to see if he had just unvoted...he hasn't put down a single vote this entire game so far. CTLR+F turned up the word vote quite a number of times from him but it was in regards to basing reads of his on how other people voted or giving reasons why he didn't vote sig or Dys. He said in one of D1 posts that he doesn't like to rush votes but this is just straight not moving from the starting line.

[VOTE: ] aubergine[VOTE:


I saw Nutella cleared JJJ, though I'm not sure I exactly trust that. Nutella had been being buddy-buddy with JJJ early on and I don't care for JJJ's vote history.

juliet's said something about how Scotty here reminded her of herself in GoC when she mislynched me. I checked that game to see if she was still alive and at least according to the player list she hasn't died yet, so it pings me that she is using her unconfirmed alignment there to townread someone here.

Need to see more into Golden with the time I have. I read Sloonei's JoH case but it didn't really register bad with me, maybe due to it hinging on being more caught up with the thread.] aubergine

Fredwood wrote:

Jackofhearts2005 wrote:@Fred

How many times have you seen me go at it early with Rokk and/or Silver go at it only to have us turn out to both/all be town?

I don't believe that you really think good players + aggressiveness + disagreement = mafia.

It's not common enough to be treated as WIFOM (am I using that correctly?).

It's like 90% of games Silver and I are town and 50% of games Rokk and I are town.

I'm not sure what you're trying to say.

Fredwood wrote:I think INH is a possible lynch and would be fine with lynching. But his aggressiveness has at least been consistent.

Actually, no. This reminds me of a point I forgot to bring up. So Golden (I think?) says to INH at some point that he hadn't had any strong opinions or pushes. Next thing you know is INH coming in with a super tunnel vision on me and a case that is blagh. He showed no interest in talking to me or further assess his read when I interacted with him. He had posts designed to make me the lynch over anyone else with leading questions ["Would you all prefer a no lynch or a Dyslexicon lynch?"]. He also had the most siren gif worthy response to Silver's question about if I flipped town could he vig INH ["Do I have to be bad if Dizzy isn't scum? Why didn't you kill off players on the Sig wagon?"]. On newer sites some players view me as an easy target, so that is something I look for. Ultimately the push for my lynch failed, and Marmot was revealed as scum. What has INH done today? NOTHING.

I could very easily see INH as scum still.

INH, Long Con, Eloh, Speed, Jack, Soneji are all in my PoE.

Some players not in that list is more null.

I've addressed that I'm careful with my vote. I've gone entire games only voting once or twice sometimes never.

It came from many times where I would leave my vote on a lynch target, but wasn't sure if I could be there for the end of the phase, and the vote was exploited, or if I leave my vote with someone, it gets misused or not used. It might be that the Realms voting is just too sloppy for my tastes, not sure.

Additionally I rarely vote for someone who is voting for me because it feels like a cop out, (I'm not bad he is argument). I will also say that I was not on during Day 2 especially at the EoD portion, but I would have been on the Scotty wagon.

Soneji wrote:I saw Nutella cleared JJJ, though I'm not sure I exactly trust that. Nutella had been being buddy-buddy with JJJ early on and I don't care for JJJ's vote history.

Nutella's push was maybe the biggest reason the Marmot lynch gained traction, so what's not to trust about it?

If JJJ ever ends up scum, Soneji is scum buddies.
But lol. I'm done tinfoiling JJJ. He's sure town.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote:

Fredwood wrote:

Jackofhearts2005 wrote:@Fred

How many times have you seen me go at it early with Rokk and/or Silver go at it only to have us turn out to both/all be town?

I don't believe that you really think good players + aggressiveness + disagreement = mafia.

It's not common enough to be treated as WIFOM (am I using that correctly?).

It's like 90% of games Silver and I are town and 50% of games Rokk and I are town.

I'm not sure what you're trying to say.

I did not say in a 2 person scenario, I said when all 3 of these people are aggressive to each other. I've rarely been in a game where all 3 of you are in it, and all 3 are aggressive withing the first few days. If it was just the JJJ/Golden aggressiveness or your conflict with JJJ I could dismiss it. As I said, Golden appears to have backed off, but it was noticeable enough for me to bring it up, on multiple occasions.

Dyslexicon wrote:

Soneji wrote:I saw Nutella cleared JJJ, though I'm not sure I exactly trust that. Nutella had been being buddy-buddy with JJJ early on and I don't care for JJJ's vote history.

Nutella's push was maybe the biggest reason the Marmot lynch gained traction, so what's not to trust about it?

If JJJ ever ends up scum, Soneji is scum buddies.
But lol. I'm done tinfoiling JJJ. He's sure town.

I tinfoil a baddie trio of 3J, nutella and Sloonei. I had to use up three rolls of the stuff for this one.

Quin wrote:I tinfoil a baddie trio of 3J, nutella and Sloonei. I had to use up three rolls of the stuff for this one.

Lol. Shouldn't you ass me in there too, just for good measure?
Anyway, I would gladly hand them a scum win if that was the case. Not in a million years though.

*Add me, not ass me. I don't think we're at that level of intimacy yet.

I would still be willing to vote for INH, in fact I nearly did earlier except it felt irrelevant.

In fact, I will

vote insertnamehere

Vote insertnamehere

This is something I want to tussle about. Also, I'm back, baby. Done with my things for now, ready to vote all over the place.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote:

Quin wrote:
GTH reads after everything that's happened today, with a few exclusions.

Civ:
INH
Marmot
Long Con
Silver
Golden
speedchuck
Scotty

Bad:
3J
JOH
Sloonei
nutella
Dizzy
Fredwood

How much do you still agree with this rainbow, Quin?

Literally one of my supposed scumbuddies is undecided on me. The rest are saying I'm at the top of their scum list.

Who are my buddies? (Trick question. I don't have any. Answer anyway.)

Quin?

Dyslexicon wrote:

Fredwood wrote:I think INH is a possible lynch and would be fine with lynching. But his aggressiveness has at least been consistent.

Actually, no. This reminds me of a point I forgot to bring up. So Golden (I think?) says to INH at some point that he hadn't had any strong opinions or pushes. Next thing you know is INH coming in with a super tunnel vision on me and a case that is blagh. He showed no interest in talking to me or further assess his read when I interacted with him. He had posts designed to make me the lynch over anyone else with leading questions ["Would you all prefer a no lynch or a Dyslexicon lynch?"]. He also had the most siren gif worthy response to Silver's question about if I flipped town could he vig INH ["Do I have to be bad if Dizzy isn't scum? Why didn't you kill off players on the Sig wagon?"]. On newer sites some players view me as an easy target, so that is something I look for. Ultimately the push for my lynch failed, and Marmot was revealed as scum. What has INH done today? NOTHING.

I could very easily see INH as scum still.

INH, Long Con, Eloh, Speed, Jack, Soneji are all in my PoE.

Some players not in that list is more null.

I wasn't stating this as a reason not to lynch him, he is one of my best 3 reads, but he does have a slight advantage over the others.

Vote INH

Because it looks cool with three votes in a row.

But also, because excitement.

Though, I would very much like the vote count.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote:

Jackofhearts2005 wrote:

Quin wrote:
GTH reads after everything that's happened today, with a few exclusions.

Civ:
INH
Marmot
Long Con
Silver
Golden
speedchuck
Scotty

Bad:
3J
JOH
Sloonei
nutella
Dizzy
Fredwood

How much do you still agree with this rainbow, Quin?

Literally one of my supposed scumbuddies is undecided on me. The rest are saying I'm at the top of their scum list.

Who are my buddies? (Trick question. I don't have any. Answer anyway.)

Quin?

nutella, dizzy and Jay went up. Adding Eloh up as a civ. Scotty moved down. Removing Long Con entirely.

Fredwood wrote: Dishonest how? In that I don't really assume that?

I see 3 strong players, I see them all fighting amongst themselves. 1 player I know is carefully specific in what he puts out to be consumed, 2 others that I get the impression do the same.

So I says to myself, "Self, why would all 3 of these strong careful players be going after each other rather aggressively so early"

"Well Self, you are handsome and astute, but it appears that one of these smart intelligent and crafty players is actually trying to discredit the other smart intelligent and crafty, and most likely well-endowed players to cause confusion amongst the rest of the sheeple that depend on these strong, confident, supremely coiffed player to competently run the early day phases."

"Self, I am proud of your suspicion that is completely unfounded and based of extrapolation and massive leaps in logic, but is slightly defendable if you are called on it, despite it's inherit gamesmanship logic, because you have witnessed shenanigans like this before"

Frankly, if one of you 3 aren't mafia I'll give you my address and you can steal my 10 disc Alien boxset. If that's dishonest, I dunno, my read and logic may be flawed, but it certainly isn't dishonest.

TBH, I made this same argument a few days ago and said I'd keep an eye on it. I'm not exactly sure who didn't like it then.
For me (at the time) it was Golden, JoH, JJJ, and Strawhenge (for some reason)
Might should throw Quin in there now. I would throw Sloonei in, but since he got here and helped in the leading, we've lynched a scum. Before, with the old leaders, we got nowhere. Sample size for this correlation: 2. Good enough.
I am a simple man.
Regardless, we probably have better options, especially with mm alignment. *coigh* INH *cough*

speedchuck wrote:Vote insertnamehere

This is something I want to tussle about. Also, I'm back, baby. Done with my things for now, ready to vote all over the place.

I will be disappointed if you don't hammer scum in the last minute. And I will certainly scum read you for doing or not doing it.