The Syndicate

motel room wrote:I don't think it was ever 5-all.

motel room wrote:I don't think it was ever 5-all.

Glorfindel wrote:

motel room wrote:I don't think it was ever 5-all.

I'd swear that it was... maybe it was 4 all? or maybe I'm losing my mind It may not matter but for my own peace of mind, is there no way to track the movement in the votes?

Glorfindel wrote:

motel room wrote:I don't think it was ever 5-all.

I'd swear that it was... maybe it was 4 all? or maybe I'm losing my mind It may not matter but for my own peace of mind, is there no way to track the movement in the votes?

Sloonei wrote:I am noting Mac's unparticipation in this lynch.

motel room wrote:

Glorfindel wrote:

motel room wrote:I don't think it was ever 5-all.

I'd swear that it was... maybe it was 4 all? or maybe I'm losing my mind It may not matter but for my own peace of mind, is there no way to track the movement in the votes?

Its ok, lets just see how this goes

Sloonei wrote:

Glorfindel wrote:

Sloonei wrote:Here's what I remember:
Wilgy dropped a vote on INH, making it 4 to 3.
Wilgy then moved his vote to indiglo. It was 4 to 4, with Glorfindel as the 4th INH voter.
Wilgy moved his vote back to INH.
Result pending.

When I voted, it was 4 all between Indiglo and INH.
I voted INH making it 5 to 4 in INH's favour
I refreshed and the vote had changed to 5 all (hence my response to Mac's post).
I refreshed again and it was 5 to 3 in INH's favour.

I'm seriously starting to see the advantages of non-changeable votes...

This math does not check out. It was 3 to 3 for the longest time. Wilgy made it 4 for INH to 3 for indi. I am not sure when he changed his vote relative to your vote, but for a brief moment he was on indi and you were on INH. This made it 4 to 4, but then he changed his vote.

Wilgy, why did you change your vote to indiglo?

DrWilgy wrote:

Sloonei wrote:

Glorfindel wrote:

Sloonei wrote:Here's what I remember:
Wilgy dropped a vote on INH, making it 4 to 3.
Wilgy then moved his vote to indiglo. It was 4 to 4, with Glorfindel as the 4th INH voter.
Wilgy moved his vote back to INH.
Result pending.

When I voted, it was 4 all between Indiglo and INH.
I voted INH making it 5 to 4 in INH's favour
I refreshed and the vote had changed to 5 all (hence my response to Mac's post).
I refreshed again and it was 5 to 3 in INH's favour.

I'm seriously starting to see the advantages of non-changeable votes...

This math does not check out. It was 3 to 3 for the longest time. Wilgy made it 4 for INH to 3 for indi. I am not sure when he changed his vote relative to your vote, but for a brief moment he was on indi and you were on INH. This made it 4 to 4, but then he changed his vote.

Wilgy, why did you change your vote to indiglo?

Because I saw who I was voting with and didn't like it.

a2thezebra wrote:Sorry, I just...need to leave. Maybe not forever but I'm not making any promises.

DrWilgy wrote:

Sloonei wrote:

Glorfindel wrote:

Sloonei wrote:Here's what I remember:
Wilgy dropped a vote on INH, making it 4 to 3.
Wilgy then moved his vote to indiglo. It was 4 to 4, with Glorfindel as the 4th INH voter.
Wilgy moved his vote back to INH.
Result pending.

When I voted, it was 4 all between Indiglo and INH.
I voted INH making it 5 to 4 in INH's favour
I refreshed and the vote had changed to 5 all (hence my response to Mac's post).
I refreshed again and it was 5 to 3 in INH's favour.

I'm seriously starting to see the advantages of non-changeable votes...

This math does not check out. It was 3 to 3 for the longest time. Wilgy made it 4 for INH to 3 for indi. I am not sure when he changed his vote relative to your vote, but for a brief moment he was on indi and you were on INH. This made it 4 to 4, but then he changed his vote.

Wilgy, why did you change your vote to indiglo?

Because I saw who I was voting with and didn't like it.

G-Man wrote:ROLES:SILVERTONGUE: A cowardly lawyer, Silvertongue may stop one lynch during the game. If he uses it to save himself or a member of Toecutter's gang, his votes will not count for the rest of the game.

motel room wrote:I guess.

That was worth waiting around an hour and a half for. Thanks cowardly lawyer.

Um ok, would he have fought so hard if he was going to save himself if he was Silvertongue? Who opposed INH's lynch enough to cancel it, if that's what it does?

Sloonei wrote:if INH is town, Wilgy looks bad right now.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

motel room wrote:Jjj are you predominantly off INH because of his attitude towards you?

If he's bad, he'd be the most furious baddie I've ever seen. Not impossible. I might still return to that vote pending possible ties or the like.

a2thezebra wrote:

THE MP BEING PROBLEMATIC AF COMPILATION POST

MovingPictures07 wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:It pains me to disparage a lady, but I do believe Elohcin's response to that random vote from her husband was a bit lifeless. Considering she is here to see Neil Hartley live and in the flesh, I know she isn't that bored. The look on her face, it's giving Neil the wrong impression.

MovingPictures07 wrote:

Elohcin wrote:I know nothing of this show, so JJJ is confusing me a bit. I may vote him. It seems a little 'trying too hard' to come in here role play like that right off the bat. Like he is trying to win us over. What do y'all think? And this is not WIFOM talking...whatever that is. I never understood that term completely. but you all seem to use it for when you go after someone who has gone after you? I don't know.

I'll hold off on voting for now.

The "trying too hard" argument bothers me, but I'm not sure I find you suspicious for it. I just don't agree. Also, Neil Hartley has nothing to do with Mad Max.

MovingPictures07 wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Elohcin wrote:I know nothing of this show, so JJJ is confusing me a bit. I may vote him. It seems a little 'trying too hard' to come in here role play like that right off the bat. Like he is trying to win us over. What do y'all think? And this is not WIFOM talking...whatever that is. I never understood that term completely. but you all seem to use it for when you go after someone who has gone after you? I don't know?

What a wild post, madame! How would you feel if Neil Hartley told you that you "tried too hard" to find something negative to say about his roleplay! I think you might be bad news, and I'm gonna inform security to keep an eye on your table.

Elohcin

How much of this serious?

I know I've already brought up these first three posts but no one responded and later Dom asked me for some elaboration on my MP read so they can't not be in this post. I mean these alone are, or at least should be, pretty damning knowing how things played out. MP begins his Eloh read fabrication with literally just a ponder smiley, the most obvious "I'm just going to go wherever town goes with this" reaction you could possibly have. It's especially irreconcilable with the MP-is-civ narrative because civ MP rarely responds to posts with just a smiley, especially one as vague and open to different trajectories as the pondering one. MP almost always delivers his definitive thoughts on anything and everything he addresses, more often than not going into more detail than most right from the get go. For him to not even say whether he agrees, disagrees, or is undecided on the matter of Eloh's lifelessness and instead to deliver a reaction that could interpreted as all three, or at the time even suspicion of JJJ rather than Eloh, is pretty bad. And that's just the first post.

What in the name of the piano is up with that second post? The waffliness of it is just scratching the surface, there's a glaring contradiction there that PROVES MP was fabricating his read of Eloh at least at the time. I've fabricated reads before as a civ myself just to not get lynched, so I'm not saying that MP is confirmed bad because he has a confirmed fake read. If something bothers you about another player alignment-wise, then of course you find them suspicious for it. If you don't find the other player suspicious for it, then it bothers you in a way that is unrelated to the game, which obviously isn't the case here, given that what's apparently bothersome to MP here is the "trying too hard" argument. How would that argument go about bothering someone in a way that isn't suspicious? MP goes on to say that he just doesn't "agree"....what???? If you simply don't agree with an argument, then you disagree with it. You don't say that it bothers you, unless it bothers you by peaking your suspicion. To make matters worse, MP outright say that he didn't find Eloh suspicious for it, he said that he fucking wasn't sure if he found her suspicious for it. Are you serious?

And then there's the icing on the cake which is the third post. After two posts that express undefined, neutral, and contradictory views on Eloh, he then asks JJJ how much of his post expressing suspicion of her is serious. This clearly implies that MP was taken aback by JJJ's post, but why would he be? Beyond the fluff of the role-playing, there's nothing in that post to suggest that JJJ is kidding around with what he was saying there, so why would it produce a reaction like the one MP had?

Seriously people, pretend that you know that MP is good and then read those three posts. Then pretend that you know that MP is bad and then read those three posts. Knowing Eloh's flip, which hypothesis makes more sense?

Oh but I'm just getting started. Those were just the posts that I had already quoted earlier.

MovingPictures07 wrote:

Elohcin wrote:going for self preservation here...

We have 24 hours (or had as of the time of your post) in this game. Why self-preservation so early?

I believe that Eloh's Day 1 self-preservation vote was a co-ordinated effort between her and MP to lower suspicions of both of them, for Eloh in the short-term and for MP in the long-term. Here me out please. When Elohcin posted that she was voting out of self-preservation, the next minute JJJ responded by asking what was her beef with bwt, her vote of choice. Between that time and MP's post here quite a few players posted and none of them thought to ask her why she would make a self-preservation vote/post so early. Only MP had that thought. Eloh's self-preservation vote was meant to look too risky or clumsy for a baddie and then MP was meant to come in, call it out, and earn them both town credit WHILE distancing from each other WHILE low key scum-reading each other. MP being the one to call out Eloh's self-preservation vote also helped him later on when his read of Eloh became stronger and stronger in the baddie direction, and I'll get into just how arbitrary it was that it went that way and not the opposite.

MovingPictures07 wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: MovingPictures07
Scotty
sprityo

Elohcin

I'm orange!

In another peculiarly out-of-character moment for MP, he responds to a full rainbow rankings list from JJJ not commenting on any of the reads but his own, and even then it's not to challenge JJJ's baddie-leaning read of him but just to say that he's happy that he's orange. Pure fluff from a player that again, is not only not known for fluff but is well-known for being a steamroller of hard content. This is clearly because Elohcin was JJJ's only red read and he wanted to draw attention away from it without actually confronting it and risking revealing that they are teammates. You know he was nervous about that possibility because the risk wasn't even that high on Day 1 and he still avoided having a concrete read on Elohcin himself like the plague, and his only comments both referencing her and the ones addressed to her allow for complete ambiguity.

Case in point: his very next post regarding Elohcin.

MovingPictures07 wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote: How much of this serious?

All of it

Got it, thanks. Just wasn't fully able to discern due to the roleplay (which I'm cool with and enjoying, btw).

What's the point of getting confirmation that a post was serious if you're not going to make any comment regarding the post's content? It would be one thing if MP didn't comment on the post whatsoever, but for him to ask how much of it serious, get confirmation that the entirety of it is serious, but then to not have anything to say about it or any questions or clarifications or anything, looks really, really bad, especially in the context of MP's playstyle which again, normally isn't as fluffy and vague as all of his Eloh-related posts up to this point have been.

MovingPictures07 wrote:a2thezebra
Dom
MacDougall
LoRab
Neil Hartley
Ricochet
Sloonei
S~V~S

birdwithteeth11
DrWilgy
sanmateo

Elohcin
Epignosis
Glorfindel
insertnamehere
motel room
Scotty
sprityo

Here is MP's first rainbow list. With the names in each category (of which there are only three and none of them are red) being in alphabetical order, that basically renders this list pointless which is all the worse factoring in the reluctance to deliver Day 1 content on Eloh. Think about it; this list is literally eight townies, three nulls, and seven ehhh-kinda-suspicious-but-not-really-but-we-shall-sees. That's bad. If MP was a civ trying to genuinely contribute, why would he go to the trouble of making a rainbow list that doesn't offer any more real information than a post merely naming two or three reads at most would? Simple, it's a replication of contribution rather than town-motivated contribution.

I'm sorry I just have to emphasize that so far we've gone through seven posts that either reference Eloh or go out of their way not to reference Eloh, one of them being a fucking rainbow rankings list, and we still know essentially nothing about what MP's read of Eloh was at this point in the game. And no, being one of seven orange reads on Day 1 means approximately jack shit. That could have and would have changed if suspicions of Eloh had decreased after Day 1 rather than increased.

MovingPictures07 wrote:

Elohcin wrote:
I seriously thought his actions were a joke or trying to get a rise out of me or something. I think my reaction was what would determine his thoughts of me. Too bad I had to react after midnight after several drinks (when I don't drink often at all). It probably is what started me off on the wrong track for this game.

Now, as for my vote today (Day 1 ) I can see where scotty can be bad. I am moving my vote there. I don't want to vote BWT if I don't have to. Hate to lose a possible civ position even if it's a quiet one.

You can see it? What about the Scotty case is convincing to you?

I'm not even sure what MP meant by the first question and frankly I don't think he did either. Eloh said that she could see where Scotty could be bad, and he asks her if she can see that? Unless he's referencing something else? The problem here is that MP's indecisiveness is being reflected on his interaction with Eloh here. Instead of asking her about his read of her or her read of him, he asks her about Scotty. The second question makes sense because it's asking for elaboration, but it just makes the first question look even more forced and out of place.

MovingPictures07 wrote:Rainbow #2

a2thezebra
Dom
MacDougall
motel room
Sloonei
S~V~S

LoRab
Neil Hartley

birdwithteeth11
DrWilgy
sanmateo

Ricochet
Scotty

Elohcin
Epignosis
Glorfindel
insertnamehere
sprityo

While five categories is much better than three, this reads list still puts each category in alphabetical order (meaning there's really only five actual rankings) and there's still no red reads. It helps that Elohcin is in the bottom five but in a way that makes it worse because MP's apparent growing confidence in his baddie read of Eloh is only reflected in his rainbow rankings lists and not the rest of his content. But where MP really digs his own grave is in his very next post where he makes the mistake of elaborating on nothing. I'll just skip to the juice.

MovingPictures07 wrote: - The five remaining names in my moderate mafia list are not particularly crazy suspicious, but I am not inspired to believe any of them are town at this time based on what they have posted.

If this isn't the nail in the coffin then I don't know what is. How the hell is the bottom five names in your MODERATE mafia list not even "particularly crazy suspicious"? First of all, what a hilarious phrase. Not. Particularly. Crazy. Suspicious. Tell me MP, what does "not particularly crazy suspicious" mean exactly? Are those five names not particularly crazy suspicious because they're just plain crazy suspicious without the particularly? Are they not particularly crazy suspicious because none of them are crazy to the best of our knowledge? Are they not particularly crazy suspicious because all of them are particularly crazy yet none of them are suspicious?

My point is that MP is saying nothing by saying everything, and this is his prime strategy as a baddie. When you're flooded with his content in any game you're going to get a lot of concrete (hard reads) and a lot of ambiguity (softer and/or less consistent reads) but what you're not going to get - unless he's bad - is fake content. That's what his first two rainbow rankings posts are and he just illustrated as much himself. It would be like if I did a rainbow rankings list with just two categories: strong town reads and slight town reads. No mafia reads, no neutral reads, no null reads. Just strong town and light town. I could rank them all in order most town to least town, but they're all town reads, so it wouldn't mean shit. But in reality what MP did here is even worse than the scenario I just described, because MP only ranked the different sections of his first two lists by fucking alphabetical order. All of this could have been redeemed if MP delivered some hard scum reads, or at least left it open for others to assume that his bottom reads were his hard scum reads, but he had to go and clarify that not even his bottom reads he found particularly crazy suspicious. That means that someone at the time of the second rainbow list could have asked him who he would most likely to vote for, and if he had answered them that would've been more of a real contribution than his two rainbow lists combined.

And just to keep things from being misunderstood, I do believe MP is contributing. I just don't think it's civ-minded contribution. I think he's bad.

DrWilgy wrote:

Sloonei wrote:if INH is town, Wilgy looks bad right now.

Actually, you are bad. Explain this Sloonei.

Sloonei wrote:

DrWilgy wrote:

Sloonei wrote:if INH is town, Wilgy looks bad right now.

Actually, you are bad. Explain this Sloonei.

It's not my fault, G-man made me do it.

a2thezebra wrote:Just so it's said, all of you (and I really do mean ALL of you) have been great and this has been fun for me. My life just can't handle this anymore.

DrWilgy wrote:A note: based on interactions between 7 and results, motel and Sloonei seemed to be expecting a result and are not the lynch pardoner.

LoRab wrote:

DrWilgy wrote:A note: based on interactions between 7 and results, motel and Sloonei seemed to be expecting a result and are not the lynch pardoner.

Also, they voted for him. And didn't retract suspicion of him.

I still doubt that the lynch was pardonded and think it more likely that there was native protection.

MacDougall wrote:I reckon he protected himself tbh.

Dom wrote:

LoRab wrote:

DrWilgy wrote:A note: based on interactions between 7 and results, motel and Sloonei seemed to be expecting a result and are not the lynch pardoner.

Also, they voted for him. And didn't retract suspicion of him.

I still doubt that the lynch was pardonded and think it more likely that there was native protection.

what do you mean

LoRab wrote:

MacDougall wrote:I reckon he protected himself tbh.

So you think his emotional reaction was over not being able to vote the rest of the game?

Dom wrote:

LoRab wrote:

DrWilgy wrote:A note: based on interactions between 7 and results, motel and Sloonei seemed to be expecting a result and are not the lynch pardoner.

Also, they voted for him. And didn't retract suspicion of him.

I still doubt that the lynch was pardonded and think it more likely that there was native protection.

what do you mean

Not sure which part you're questioning, so I'll answer all the parts:

I agree that neither motel nor Sloonei protected INH. Actually, I didn't say this, but iether could be the protector, if INH had native protection--at any rate, I saw his main point as being that neither of them stopped the lynch. Which I agree with. But I also don't think either of them would have stopped the lynch regardless because they suspected him enough to vote for him and not change their votes.

As I stated above, I do not think there was a pardon going on. I think it is more likely that INH is one of the 2 roles that has a native protection from the first death attempt.

Does that clarify?

Epignosis wrote:No one is acknowledging me.

ACKNOWLEDGE ME.

LoRab wrote:

DrWilgy wrote:A note: based on interactions between 7 and results, motel and Sloonei seemed to be expecting a result and are not the lynch pardoner.

Also, they voted for him. And didn't retract suspicion of him.

I still doubt that the lynch was pardonded and think it more likely that there was native protection.

motel room wrote:When during the day did you stop the lynch quin?

Quin wrote:

motel room wrote:When during the day did you stop the lynch quin?

Nope.

Epignosis wrote:No one is acknowledging me.

ACKNOWLEDGE ME.

LoRab wrote:

DrWilgy wrote:A note: based on interactions between 7 and results, motel and Sloonei seemed to be expecting a result and are not the lynch pardoner.

Also, they voted for him. And didn't retract suspicion of him.

I still doubt that the lynch was pardonded and think it more likely that there was native protection.

SILVERTONGUE: A cowardly lawyer, Silvertongue may stop one lynch during the game. If he uses it to save himself or a member of Toecutter's gang, his votes will not count for the rest of the game.

G-Man wrote:Outside the Halls of Justice, Neil Hartley was professing his gospel of tender love and free drinks. Inside, however, was another story. Tired of the MFP's penchant for destructive displays of force, the people put insertnamehere on trial. Things weren't swinging his way. The prosecution brought forth all kinds of evidence and the jury was convinced.

"Does the jury have a verdict?" the judge asked.

"Indeed," a juror said. "Guilty on all counts. We demand the defendant be executed and searched for signs of gang affiliation."

The door at the back of the courtroom burst open, giving everyone a jolt. Was it a surprise witness? A gang member come to shoot them all in the backs? Nope. It was just a guy who looked awfully familiar.

"Hey there," Epignosis's twin brother said and found a seat. "Sorry I'm late."

The judge called the room back to order. Calm had been restored for only a minute when the doors at the back of the courtroom burst open once more. This time, a scraggly-looking man in last year's style suit marched up to the judge, shouting at full volume.

"This mockery of justice shall not stand! If you execute this man today, I promise a full civil and constitutional rights investigation. Such a hasty decision cannot determine life and death. Not only a few hours ago, this town was deadlocked on who to press charges against. Carrying these proceedings any further represents an affront to liberty, freedom, democracy, and, dare I say, civilized society."

"Wow," one juror murmured. "That guy makes a good case. Maybe we ought to think this through some more."

Other jurors nodded in agreement. The conviction and sentence were rescinded and the court case sent to recess for further discovery. Insertnamehere didn't waste anytime bolting from his chair to get as far away from the Halls of Justice as possible before anyone changed their minds again.

DrWilgy wrote:

Sloonei wrote:

DrWilgy wrote:

Sloonei wrote:if INH is town, Wilgy looks bad right now.

Actually, you are bad. Explain this Sloonei.

It's not my fault, G-man made me do it.

What does this mean?

motel room wrote:I guess.

That was worth waiting around an hour and a half for. Thanks cowardly lawyer.

Um ok, would he have fought so hard if he was going to save himself if he was Silvertongue? Who opposed INH's lynch enough to cancel it, if that's what it does?

Epignosis wrote:No one is acknowledging me.

ACKNOWLEDGE ME.

Sloonei wrote:

DrWilgy wrote:

Sloonei wrote:

DrWilgy wrote:

Sloonei wrote:if INH is town, Wilgy looks bad right now.

Actually, you are bad. Explain this Sloonei.

It's not my fault, G-man made me do it.

What does this mean?

I was making a funny joke because I'm not bad and you are just pointing fingers at me because what the hell

DrWilgy wrote:

Sloonei wrote:

DrWilgy wrote:

Sloonei wrote:

DrWilgy wrote:

Sloonei wrote:if INH is town, Wilgy looks bad right now.

Actually, you are bad. Explain this Sloonei.

It's not my fault, G-man made me do it.

What does this mean?

I was making a funny joke because I'm not bad and you are just pointing fingers at me because what the hell

How about explaining your non-joke claim that came before the joke then Sloon my friend.

Epignosis wrote:No one is acknowledging me.

ACKNOWLEDGE ME.

Quin wrote:

LoRab wrote:

DrWilgy wrote:A note: based on interactions between 7 and results, motel and Sloonei seemed to be expecting a result and are not the lynch pardoner.

Also, they voted for him. And didn't retract suspicion of him.

I still doubt that the lynch was pardonded and think it more likely that there was native protection.

The context of the lynch post would beg to differ.

Sloonei wrote:

LoRab wrote:

DrWilgy wrote:A note: based on interactions between 7 and results, motel and Sloonei seemed to be expecting a result and are not the lynch pardoner.

Also, they voted for him. And didn't retract suspicion of him.

I still doubt that the lynch was pardonded and think it more likely that there was native protection.

The evidence in G-man's post suggests he was saved by Silvertongue.

SILVERTONGUE: A cowardly lawyer, Silvertongue may stop one lynch during the game. If he uses it to save himself or a member of Toecutter's gang, his votes will not count for the rest of the game.

G-Man wrote:Outside the Halls of Justice, Neil Hartley was professing his gospel of tender love and free drinks. Inside, however, was another story. Tired of the MFP's penchant for destructive displays of force, the people put insertnamehere on trial. Things weren't swinging his way. The prosecution brought forth all kinds of evidence and the jury was convinced.

"Does the jury have a verdict?" the judge asked.

"Indeed," a juror said. "Guilty on all counts. We demand the defendant be executed and searched for signs of gang affiliation."

The door at the back of the courtroom burst open, giving everyone a jolt. Was it a surprise witness? A gang member come to shoot them all in the backs? Nope. It was just a guy who looked awfully familiar.

"Hey there," Epignosis's twin brother said and found a seat. "Sorry I'm late."

The judge called the room back to order. Calm had been restored for only a minute when the doors at the back of the courtroom burst open once more. This time, a scraggly-looking man in last year's style suit marched up to the judge, shouting at full volume.

"This mockery of justice shall not stand! If you execute this man today, I promise a full civil and constitutional rights investigation. Such a hasty decision cannot determine life and death. Not only a few hours ago, this town was deadlocked on who to press charges against. Carrying these proceedings any further represents an affront to liberty, freedom, democracy, and, dare I say, civilized society."

"Wow," one juror murmured. "That guy makes a good case. Maybe we ought to think this through some more."

Other jurors nodded in agreement. The conviction and sentence were rescinded and the court case sent to recess for further discovery. Insertnamehere didn't waste anytime bolting from his chair to get as far away from the Halls of Justice as possible before anyone changed their minds again.

Sloonei wrote:G-man has stated that his stories do contain hints and information about the game.