The Syndicate

Day 3
Day 4

Epignosis wrote:Dead civilians in red. Civilians I don't think could explain why Dom is more suspicious of Eloh than Quin are crossed out. Feel free to object. could be

CIVVIES (13) Need both mafia teams dead to win.
Violet Baudelaire – Violet is a brilliant inventor. She will create a new device every night and send it to a player of her choice. Marco didn't do shit.

Klaus Baudelaire – Klaus loves to read, and is constantly learning. Twice in the game Klaus can send in a role and discover which player has that role. Marco didn't do shit.

Sunny Baudelaire – Sunny may be small, but her teeth are razor sharp. To defend her siblings, Sunny will kill every even night. Marco damn sure didn't kill.

Mr. Poe – Mr. Poe is the executor of the Baudelaire estate, but even though he means well, he is unbelievably incompetent. Every night Mr. Poe will try to help a player. There is a 1/3 chance that player will be blocked, a 1/3 chance they will be silenced, and a 1/3 chance they will be killed. Marco damn sure didn't kill.

Dr. Montgomery Montgomery – Uncle Monty is one of the few kind, reasonable people in this story. He will protect a player every night by hiding them in his Reptile Room.

Josephine Anwhistle – Aunt Josephine is afraid of nearly everything, but she's never afraid to correct someone's grammar. She will select a statement each night and discover whether it is true or false.

Hector – Hector is a friendly handyman. He may use his flying machine to stop one lynch and switch another.

Jerome Squalor – Jerome is a decent guy, but he's a total pushover at first. Every other day Jerome's vote will increase by 1.

Isadora Quagmire – BTSC with Duncan.

Duncan Quagmire – BTSC with Isadora. These two roles might have explained the Dom-Quin-Eloh relationship, but Dom and Quin have been bickering like hell. Crossing it out.

Hal – Hal works in the Library of Records. He will search the records to role check a player every night.

Justice Strauss – In the event of a tie, Justice Strauss' vote will be the tie breaker.

Kit Snicket - SECRET

Oooo, I like this angle. I'm gonna play too.

But see, I'm not too worried about Eloh vs Quin in Dom's eyes. I'm taking him at his word that Eloh seems more scummy because he's still going around saying that Quin's bad. Or else he's now scum and just views Eloh as an easier target cause she was runner up yesterday.

*takes out an eraser and a pen and marks up the above quote*

I can't see squat in this quote though. Posting.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote:

Epignosis wrote:

Jackofhearts2005 wrote:

Epignosis wrote:Does anyone believe our civilian lie detector had anything on Quin before he went down?

What does your little picture demonstrate?

Use your words.

You're a smart fella who is experienced in playing fill in the implication. I'm sure you'll figure it out.

Does it have something to do with him not posting at all Night 2?

Jackofhearts2005 wrote:

Epignosis wrote:Dead civilians in red. Civilians I don't think could explain why Dom is more suspicious of Eloh than Quin are crossed out. Feel free to object. could be

CIVVIES (13) Need both mafia teams dead to win.
Violet Baudelaire – Violet is a brilliant inventor. She will create a new device every night and send it to a player of her choice. Marco didn't do shit.

Klaus Baudelaire – Klaus loves to read, and is constantly learning. Twice in the game Klaus can send in a role and discover which player has that role. Marco didn't do shit.

Sunny Baudelaire – Sunny may be small, but her teeth are razor sharp. To defend her siblings, Sunny will kill every even night. Marco damn sure didn't kill.

Mr. Poe – Mr. Poe is the executor of the Baudelaire estate, but even though he means well, he is unbelievably incompetent. Every night Mr. Poe will try to help a player. There is a 1/3 chance that player will be blocked, a 1/3 chance they will be silenced, and a 1/3 chance they will be killed. Marco damn sure didn't kill.

Dr. Montgomery Montgomery – Uncle Monty is one of the few kind, reasonable people in this story. He will protect a player every night by hiding them in his Reptile Room.

Josephine Anwhistle – Aunt Josephine is afraid of nearly everything, but she's never afraid to correct someone's grammar. She will select a statement each night and discover whether it is true or false.

Hector – Hector is a friendly handyman. He may use his flying machine to stop one lynch and switch another.

Jerome Squalor – Jerome is a decent guy, but he's a total pushover at first. Every other day Jerome's vote will increase by 1.

Isadora Quagmire – BTSC with Duncan.

Duncan Quagmire – BTSC with Isadora. These two roles might have explained the Dom-Quin-Eloh relationship, but Dom and Quin have been bickering like hell. Crossing it out.

Hal – Hal works in the Library of Records. He will search the records to role check a player every night.

Justice Strauss – In the event of a tie, Justice Strauss' vote will be the tie breaker.

Kit Snicket - SECRET

Oooo, I like this angle. I'm gonna play too.

But see, I'm not too worried about Eloh vs Quin in Dom's eyes. I'm taking him at his word that Eloh seems more scummy because he's still going around saying that Quin's bad. Or else he's now scum and just views Eloh as an easier target cause she was runner up yesterday.

*takes out an eraser and a pen and marks up the above quote*

I can't see squat in this quote though. Posting.

I'm well aware what civilian roles Dom could be based on the fact that they're probably alive. That wasn't the point of the exercise.

4/10.

Not a great look.

Still, I feel Dom's reactions have been pretty genuine.




@Epi

No. I'm confident you know exactly what I'm saying.

linki

Sorry it doesn't help you.

Does anyone have a good reason to believe Dom is a civilian?

Does anyone have a good reason to believe Quin is a civilian?

Jackofhearts2005 wrote:4/10.

Not a great look.

Still, I feel Dom's reactions have been pretty genuine.




@Epi

No. I'm confident you know exactly what I'm saying.

linki

Sorry it doesn't help you.

Let me help you out.

I don't know what your picture is saying.

Epignosis wrote:Does anyone have a good reason to believe Quin is a civilian?

I've got a few.

Epignosis wrote:

Jackofhearts2005 wrote:4/10.

Not a great look.

Still, I feel Dom's reactions have been pretty genuine.




@Epi

No. I'm confident you know exactly what I'm saying.

linki

Sorry it doesn't help you.

Let me help you out.

I don't know what your picture is saying.

Metalmarsh89 wrote:

Jackofhearts2005 wrote:

Epignosis wrote:

Jackofhearts2005 wrote:

Epignosis wrote:Does anyone believe our civilian lie detector had anything on Quin before he went down?

What does your little picture demonstrate?

Use your words.

You're a smart fella who is experienced in playing fill in the implication. I'm sure you'll figure it out.

Does it have something to do with him not posting at all Night 2?

Ding ding ding.

I'm going to bed.

I can already see that I'm voting one of Dom or Quin coming up. I don't see how both of them are civilians.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote:

Epignosis wrote:

Jackofhearts2005 wrote:4/10.

Not a great look.

Still, I feel Dom's reactions have been pretty genuine.




@Epi

No. I'm confident you know exactly what I'm saying.

linki

Sorry it doesn't help you.

Let me help you out.

I don't know what your picture is saying.

Metalmarsh89 wrote:

Jackofhearts2005 wrote:

Epignosis wrote:

Jackofhearts2005 wrote:

Epignosis wrote:Does anyone believe our civilian lie detector had anything on Quin before he went down?

What does your little picture demonstrate?

Use your words.

You're a smart fella who is experienced in playing fill in the implication. I'm sure you'll figure it out.

Does it have something to do with him not posting at all Night 2?

Ding ding ding.

Yeah, lie detectors only work on Night 2. Good show.

Epignosis wrote:I'm going to bed.

I can already see that I'm voting one of Dom or Quin coming up. I don't see how both of them are civilians.

Your assumption is that Dom's change of opinion of me is because we are now on the same baddie team, and that Dom is pretending that he didn't lie detect me to cover for me.

Yet for perhaps the fourth or fifth time now you've neglected to pursue the end of finding a check able post that would actually support your argument.

Underlining things Quin might have lied about D0 or D1.

Quin wrote:I haven't read the books either. I might pick it up the next time I head to a book store. I voted north, because the voices told me to.

Quin wrote:I just realised that I'm playing three games. Ironically, I'm now glad that I completely fell off the wagon in Lost because if we were still in it I'd have four games to deal with.

Quin wrote:

Jackofhearts2005 wrote:I could get behind splitting the difference with alignment only flips. While no janitoring is more comfortable to me, I'm big on trying new things.

Snow Dog wrote:I'm playing without reading my role.

This seems like a terrible idea.

If you're being truthful and you're town, this only hurts your performance.

If you're being truthful and you're scum, maybe you don't accidentally give yourself away with a scumtell.

You could also be scum and lying, using this as a shield. "Anything scummy I say can't actually be scummy cause I don't even know my alignment."

I'm with the marmot. You seem like a great first lynch.

DrWilgy did the exact same thing in Monkey Island, so I'm taking Snow Dog's post as a jokey reference to that. On no planet is there a person who's seriously played a game where they haven't checked their role. If they're bad then it's a massive kick in the teeth to his/her teammates. Same to any alignment, really.

Quin wrote:

Dragon D. Luffy wrote:Snow Dog has no alignment. All attempts to read him are pointless. There is no way to call him a civ or bad, because he has no winning condition. He has no intention to win for either side. He is not playing the game.

Why should he be kept alive?

Every lynch is a policy lynch. We take down people who don't contribute to town's cause, for reasons we decide at the time. This guy is the least contributive a player can possibly be.

You didn't play Monkey Island, so I can barely understand why you're taking Snow Dog seriously.

I take that back, even in Monkey Island where I was seeing it for the first time I knew Wilgy was bullshitting us.

Quin wrote:

Epignosis wrote:

Jackofhearts2005 wrote:

Epignosis wrote:Four pages all about Snow Dog and Long Con's bad directions.

Snow Dog must feel special.

I won't be voting him Day 1.

Oh yeah?

What caused you to determine SD is town or rather, definitely not someone you could see yourself lynching? Do you see a specific better option at this point?

Or did you merely mean you wouldn't lynch him over that one post?

I can take Eloh seriously. Shame you can't.

I have more experience with Snow Dog. I understand his Welsh sense of humor (humour?). I immediately gathered the context of his post when I read his post because I was in Monkey Island being eaten by cannibals.

I never said Snow Dog was good. I'm saying that the response Snow Dog was looking for to his first post was "Ha ha, good times, mate." Instead some of you decided to start a row over it. So there's that.

As for Eloh, she doesn't know why a vanilla civilian would lie about having a power role.

If it's any consolation, you tasted delicious.

Quin wrote:

Long Con wrote:

Quin wrote:I think there's a setting where you can uncheck everything so that nothing (or the things you dont want) don't get emailed to you as they happen.

Thank you for giving me nightmares with that sentence.

I was eating a sausage roll as a wrote it so constructing a coherent sentence was put in the backseat.

[/spoiler]

I was lying about the second-to-last one.

Quin wrote:I was lying about the second-to-last one.

Top drawer, gentlemen!

But seriously, I just finished a Day 0 to Night 1 and only found posts that could be lie detected if Quin was partners with Snow or DDL and DFarady was feeling nice.

Stuff like "I think Snow's partner could be DDL."

Knowing Snow was not scum buddies with Quin, Quin can only be a LIE DETECTED scummer if DDL is his partner.

If DDL and Quin have been scum buddies this whole game, I will eat a walrus.

Epignosis wrote:Does anyone have a good reason to believe Dom is a civilian?

Does anyone have a good reason to believe Quin is a civilian?

Does anyone have a good reason to believe epi is a civilian?

Does anyone have a good reason to believe that eloh is civilian?

I've not yet been persuaded to believe that Dom lded quin and is now lying about it.

I said at the start and I still believe that drawing conclusions about what Dom may or may not have done in a first life, that he can't answer to, that the host has deemed not to affect balance and asked us not to ask Dom about - this is very dangerous conduct.

Despite the host asking that we ask Dom no questions about his first life, epi pushes Dom on why his opinions have changed since his first life. This is inherently asking Dom to comment on his first life. I don't like it one bit. I don't think civilian epi tries to pressure people in places where he knows they can't give straight answers.

Epis been all about angles this game. The more I see of him the less I trust him. There is a dinstinct lack of open mindedness.

I agree with jack that quin and ddl aren't teamies. I think quin has defended his accusations well and I won't vote there.

I have liked doms responses today too. Candid, in the circumstances.

I don't intend to vote either today.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote:But seriously, I just finished a Day 0 to Night 1 and only found posts that could be lie detected if Quin was partners with Snow or DDL and DFarady was feeling nice.

Stuff like "I think Snow's partner could be DDL."

Knowing Snow was not scum buddies with Quin, Quin can only be a LIE DETECTED scummer if DDL is his partner.

If DDL and Quin have been scum buddies this whole game, I will eat a walrus.

Pretty sure most people know where I stand when it comes to bringing personal beef into a game as a scum strategy. I feel like it's emotional manipulation and I'll never do it intentionally. Whether you believe it or not, or want to call it WIFOM or distancing or whatever, my briefly turned-personal beef with DDL a few days ago is proof that DDL is not my teammate.

Epignosis wrote: I have some suspicion of Eloh, but she's been cursed (however mildly), and I don't care for the way some here have tried to force me into staying suspicious of her when there is some evidence in her favor.

Marcodom I have no opinion on, but people I don't suspect say not to lynch him, and I'd rather hear from Dom anyway.

let's sit around the campfire and talk about this over some roasted wieners.

Golden wrote:

Epignosis wrote:Does anyone have a good reason to believe Dom is a civilian?

Does anyone have a good reason to believe Quin is a civilian?

Does anyone have a good reason to believe epi is a civilian?

Does anyone have a good reason to believe that eloh is civilian?

I thought I did but confidence is fast eroding. Feels like Epi starts with conclusions like "Eloh is town" or "Quin and MarDom are scumbuddies" and then backs into the conclusions, making poor assumptions like "the scum wouldn't post restrict themselves so Eloh can't be on that scum team" or "Dom 1 lie detected Quin even though there were no useful lie detect posts prior to Day 1 and then Dom was MIA all of Night 2."

Additionally, his attacks on Quin and Golden do not ring true to me and he put forth the argument that ultimately got Snow Dog lynched.

(Epi will likely argue semantics about all of this but I'm not gonna play that game. I'm busy playing a different one.)

Eloh? No. No reason so far for me to believe she is town.

Well, as long as this one is going to take off, I do actually have an opinion that I've been holding back because I didn't want to get nightkilled. No, I'm being serious.

Epi and Elo are on a team. And that team is the Guardians, of course - they can't be Troupe because they voted Glorfyo. That's the team with VP Nero, the curser. Elo's curse was a double-whammy self-hit for the team, in that she was cursed or cursed herself to call Epi Sir (a member of the Guardians) in every post. It's kind of triple WIFOM: Elo gets cursed, Epi bears the brunt, and she calls him a role on their team. Maybe his role, I don't know if it's that extra delicious or not. My gut would say 'yes', because why not?

Knowing (and I'm going off meta here which may be eight months or so out of date) that Epi is often asked what his opinion of Elo is, and is supposedly often right, Epi's (I believe) first opinion of Elo is that she is bad. Then he allows himself to talk himself out of it because of logical reasons, and threatens suspicion on those who disagree:

Epignosis wrote:I have some suspicion of Eloh, but she's been cursed (however mildly), and I don't care for the way some here have tried to force me into staying suspicious of her when there is some evidence in her favor.

This is what I believe is going on here. I just think it all fits, it all makes sense to me. This is what happens when Epi and Elo are on a team together. Nothing I have seen since I started thinking about this has made me believe it less. I do think he believes what he says about Dom and Quin, and he may be awesome and be right.

LC - whether or not you prove correct, I believe that is something epi would thoroughly enjoy doing.

Add to that, I have every reason to believe that the troupe know I'm a civilian, and the fairness of epis unwillingness to back off me (plus, I believe, epi believes he can get me lynched - he is circling me like a snake all game, waiting for the time to strike)

I've got another one, just for fun. This one, I feel is more of a doozy.

How does an information role sub back into a game after he dies? Maybe Dom 1.0 failed to send in a Lie Detect on both night 1 and 2. That's a way, and I don't think that happened. I don't think Dom, even if he didn't have the most time to post, would miss two extraordinarily powerful night power submissions in a row. He wasn't that out of the game.

Finding out someone lied, or finding out they told the truth, about something specifically chosen to be relevatory (not a word?) about their alignment... is important information, and it is information that Dom 2.0 could not un-know. He could agree to play as though he didn't have that knowledge, but it doesn't erase it.

If Dom 1.0 got info that was totally irrelevant to the game, giving him the ability to sub in on any team that needed it, then I move that this irrelevant knowledge be made public. Even if that knowledge is "Dom 1.0 didn't send in a PM either night", it's still something Dom knows and the rest of us don't know. The only way to maintain game integrity is to share it. Or lay out a point of view that shows me another way it could be, because I don't see it.

So... here's the way that I believe it happened. It's a way that avoids all this "awkwardness" and unbalanced knowledge. Dom was Count Olaf, and his secret is that, not only does he trick role checkers into thinking he's a Civ, but he has the 'Seemer' ability to fool the lynch as well. Dom appeared to be Josephine, and was not.

How do you let a baddie sub back into a game? Literally the only way is to put him back on his team. A dead baddie is able to fill the hole in the team that is an absent player.

Dom, I can see that there has been some stuff that irked you since you came back, and I don't want to upset you, I'm not trying to throw bullshit at you. The only reason I'm saying this is because it's the most logical way to explain how you were possibly able to sub in after being lynched as an information role. If I'm right, I'm sorry to have to be right like this, but, like a dead info role, I can't unknow what I think I know.

So there you go, depending on how right I am tonight, the Guardians and the Troupe both want me dead now. I doubt I would have lucked my way all the way through the game anyway. Good night!

I also think there is a possibility that this is correct - I originally thought it was not possible because Olaf killed but then someone (jack or daisy?) pointed out that I was incorrect about mechanics.

However, as I've said a couple of times, I think it's very dangerous to draw inferences from doms subbing in. The most obvious inference is that he subbed back as bad, but I don't think we should assume it.

LC is civ or Indy at worst though - both of those theories are genuine.

Golden wrote:Add to that, I have every reason to believe that the troupe know I'm a civilian, and the fairness of epis unwillingness to back off me (plus, I believe, epi believes he can get me lynched - he is circling me like a snake all game, waiting for the time to strike)

Fairness is an autocorrect fail I think. Consistentcy is what I was going for.

Long Con wrote:I've got another one, just for fun. This one, I feel is more of a doozy.

How does an information role sub back into a game after he dies? Maybe Dom 1.0 failed to send in a Lie Detect on both night 1 and 2. That's a way, and I don't think that happened. I don't think Dom, even if he didn't have the most time to post, would miss two extraordinarily powerful night power submissions in a row. He wasn't that out of the game.

Finding out someone lied, or finding out they told the truth, about something specifically chosen to be relevatory (not a word?) about their alignment... is important information, and it is information that Dom 2.0 could not un-know. He could agree to play as though he didn't have that knowledge, but it doesn't erase it.

If Dom 1.0 got info that was totally irrelevant to the game, giving him the ability to sub in on any team that needed it, then I move that this irrelevant knowledge be made public. Even if that knowledge is "Dom 1.0 didn't send in a PM either night", it's still something Dom knows and the rest of us don't know. The only way to maintain game integrity is to share it. Or lay out a point of view that shows me another way it could be, because I don't see it.

So... here's the way that I believe it happened. It's a way that avoids all this "awkwardness" and unbalanced knowledge. Dom was Count Olaf, and his secret is that, not only does he trick role checkers into thinking he's a Civ, but he has the 'Seemer' ability to fool the lynch as well. Dom appeared to be Josephine, and was not.

How do you let a baddie sub back into a game? Literally the only way is to put him back on his team. A dead baddie is able to fill the hole in the team that is an absent player.

Dom, I can see that there has been some stuff that irked you since you came back, and I don't want to upset you, I'm not trying to throw bullshit at you. The only reason I'm saying this is because it's the most logical way to explain how you were possibly able to sub in after being lynched as an information role. If I'm right, I'm sorry to have to be right like this, but, like a dead info role, I can't unknow what I think I know.

So there you go, depending on how right I am tonight, the Guardians and the Troupe both want me dead now. I doubt I would have lucked my way all the way through the game anyway. Good night!

Nice ham. How the hell am I supposed to respond?

Wrong.

Quin wrote:

Jackofhearts2005 wrote:But seriously, I just finished a Day 0 to Night 1 and only found posts that could be lie detected if Quin was partners with Snow or DDL and DFarady was feeling nice.

Stuff like "I think Snow's partner could be DDL."

Knowing Snow was not scum buddies with Quin, Quin can only be a LIE DETECTED scummer if DDL is his partner.

If DDL and Quin have been scum buddies this whole game, I will eat a walrus.

Pretty sure most people know where I stand when it comes to bringing personal beef into a game as a scum strategy. I feel like it's emotional manipulation and I'll never do it intentionally. Whether you believe it or not, or want to call it WIFOM or distancing or whatever, my briefly turned-personal beef with DDL a few days ago is proof that DDL is not my teammate.

I didn't know you feel this way, but for some reason I believe this statement.

Long Con wrote:Well, as long as this one is going to take off, I do actually have an opinion that I've been holding back because I didn't want to get nightkilled. No, I'm being serious.

Epi and Elo are on a team. And that team is the Guardians, of course - they can't be Troupe because they voted Glorfyo. That's the team with VP Nero, the curser. Elo's curse was a double-whammy self-hit for the team, in that she was cursed or cursed herself to call Epi Sir (a member of the Guardians) in every post. It's kind of triple WIFOM: Elo gets cursed, Epi bears the brunt, and she calls him a role on their team. Maybe his role, I don't know if it's that extra delicious or not. My gut would say 'yes', because why not?

Knowing (and I'm going off meta here which may be eight months or so out of date) that Epi is often asked what his opinion of Elo is, and is supposedly often right, Epi's (I believe) first opinion of Elo is that she is bad. Then he allows himself to talk himself out of it because of logical reasons, and threatens suspicion on those who disagree:

Epignosis wrote:I have some suspicion of Eloh, but she's been cursed (however mildly), and I don't care for the way some here have tried to force me into staying suspicious of her when there is some evidence in her favor.

This is what I believe is going on here. I just think it all fits, it all makes sense to me. This is what happens when Epi and Elo are on a team together. Nothing I have seen since I started thinking about this has made me believe it less. I do think he believes what he says about Dom and Quin, and he may be awesome and be right.

You're buying into WIFOM?


I do have reasons to think Epignosis is civilian though. Epignosis helped us lynch Glorfindel Day 2. Epignosis was the first one to say "Let's look for players on the other team." We've been unsuccessful thus far, but that's mafia I suppose.

I have less reason to believe Elohcin is civilian. She's been cheerfully following along, more than I've seen her do in a while. I don't know what that means wert her alignment, but it's different. Looking at Epignosis's read of her, it's something that developed over the course of a day phase. I doubt that info is involved, so it's a conclusion that he came to on his own, whether maliciously or sincerely.

Golden wrote:Add to that, I have every reason to believe that the troupe know I'm a civilian, and the fairness of epis unwillingness to back off me (plus, I believe, epi believes he can get me lynched - he is circling me like a snake all game, waiting for the time to strike)

I think you're more likely to be evil than he is. Your word is all I've been given to believe you're civilian. Your quietness doesn't mean anything to me, especially after seeing the turnout of Haiku Mafia.

Dom wrote:

Epignosis wrote:"More nuts in the tin."

Like I'm supposed to accept that.

You trying to cook my chicken, Epi?

I don't have a reason. Get off my ass.
Elo has given not a single reason to suspect me. My discussion with her is not one I would say made me feel better.

I voted because I don't want to be an ass and miss the vote again.

I don't trust Epi. I wouldn't say he's bad. I do not trust him.

In other words, he voted me b/c I think he could be bad. Hmm

And, his reason for voting early is a lie. He's still around, ain't he?
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dom, Quin, Golden. Boom Boom Boom - baddie team 1 - eliminated! Let's do this thing.

Long Con wrote:Well, as long as this one is going to take off, I do actually have an opinion that I've been holding back because I didn't want to get nightkilled. No, I'm being serious.

Epi and Elo are on a team. And that team is the Guardians, of course - they can't be Troupe because they voted Glorfyo. That's the team with VP Nero, the curser. Elo's curse was a double-whammy self-hit for the team, in that she was cursed or cursed herself to call Epi Sir (a member of the Guardians) in every post. It's kind of triple WIFOM: Elo gets cursed, Epi bears the brunt, and she calls him a role on their team. Maybe his role, I don't know if it's that extra delicious or not. My gut would say 'yes', because why not?

Knowing (and I'm going off meta here which may be eight months or so out of date) that Epi is often asked what his opinion of Elo is, and is supposedly often right, Epi's (I believe) first opinion of Elo is that she is bad. Then he allows himself to talk himself out of it because of logical reasons, and threatens suspicion on those who disagree:

Epignosis wrote:I have some suspicion of Eloh, but she's been cursed (however mildly), and I don't care for the way some here have tried to force me into staying suspicious of her when there is some evidence in her favor.

This is what I believe is going on here. I just think it all fits, it all makes sense to me. This is what happens when Epi and Elo are on a team together. Nothing I have seen since I started thinking about this has made me believe it less. I do think he believes what he says about Dom and Quin, and he may be awesome and be right.

You're WRONG! (said like Ramsey's "It's Raw!") I mean, Epi might be bad...I couldn't know for sure.

Kuddos for your theory though...it's actually pretty good. I am still trying to figure our why Epi backed off of me, honestly.

Metalmarsh89 wrote:I'm going to Disney World! I'll be back later.

Give Mickey a kiss for me!

It's because you're eating the same pie.

Golden wrote:I've not yet been persuaded to believe that Dom lded quin and is now lying about it.

I said at the start and I still believe that drawing conclusions about what Dom may or may not have done in a first life, that he can't answer to, that the host has deemed not to affect balance and asked us not to ask Dom about - this is very dangerous conduct.

Despite the host asking that we ask Dom no questions about his first life, epi pushes Dom on why his opinions have changed since his first life. This is inherently asking Dom to comment on his first life. I don't like it one bit. I don't think civilian epi tries to pressure people in places where he knows they can't give straight answers.

Epis been all about angles this game. The more I see of him the less I trust him. There is a dinstinct lack of open mindedness.

I agree with jack that quin and ddl aren't teamies. I think quin has defended his accusations well and I won't vote there.

I have liked doms responses today too. Candid, in the circumstances.

I don't intend to vote either today.

After DF posted, I revised my question to Dom.

I am still free to talk about Dom #1 because Dom #1 was a player who got lynched. And I will continue to do so because it is a piece of the puzzle.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote:

Golden wrote:

Epignosis wrote:Does anyone have a good reason to believe Dom is a civilian?

Does anyone have a good reason to believe Quin is a civilian?

Does anyone have a good reason to believe epi is a civilian?

Does anyone have a good reason to believe that eloh is civilian?

I thought I did but confidence is fast eroding. Feels like Epi starts with conclusions like "Eloh is town" or "Quin and MarDom are scumbuddies" and then backs into the conclusions, making poor assumptions like "the scum wouldn't post restrict themselves so Eloh can't be on that scum team" or "Dom 1 lie detected Quin even though there were no useful lie detect posts prior to Day 1 and then Dom was MIA all of Night 2."

Additionally, his attacks on Quin and Golden do not ring true to me and he put forth the argument that ultimately got Snow Dog lynched.

(Epi will likely argue semantics about all of this but I'm not gonna play that game. I'm busy playing a different one.)

Eloh? No. No reason so far for me to believe she is town.

That's not what I did. I listed the premises that have to be true for a conclusion to be correct. That's quite different from believing the premises myself.

Long Con wrote:Well, as long as this one is going to take off, I do actually have an opinion that I've been holding back because I didn't want to get nightkilled. No, I'm being serious.

Epi and Elo are on a team. And that team is the Guardians, of course - they can't be Troupe because they voted Glorfyo. That's the team with VP Nero, the curser. Elo's curse was a double-whammy self-hit for the team, in that she was cursed or cursed herself to call Epi Sir (a member of the Guardians) in every post. It's kind of triple WIFOM: Elo gets cursed, Epi bears the brunt, and she calls him a role on their team. Maybe his role, I don't know if it's that extra delicious or not. My gut would say 'yes', because why not?

Knowing (and I'm going off meta here which may be eight months or so out of date) that Epi is often asked what his opinion of Elo is, and is supposedly often right, Epi's (I believe) first opinion of Elo is that she is bad. Then he allows himself to talk himself out of it because of logical reasons, and threatens suspicion on those who disagree:

Epignosis wrote:I have some suspicion of Eloh, but she's been cursed (however mildly), and I don't care for the way some here have tried to force me into staying suspicious of her when there is some evidence in her favor.

This is what I believe is going on here. I just think it all fits, it all makes sense to me. This is what happens when Epi and Elo are on a team together. Nothing I have seen since I started thinking about this has made me believe it less. I do think he believes what he says about Dom and Quin, and he may be awesome and be right.

It may fit, but it isn't true.

Golden wrote:LC - whether or not you prove correct, I believe that is something epi would thoroughly enjoy doing.

No. That's something MM or Wilgy would enjoy doing.

Golden wrote:Add to that, I have every reason to believe that the troupe know I'm a civilian, and the fairness of epis unwillingness to back off me (plus, I believe, epi believes he can get me lynched - he is circling me like a snake all game, waiting for the time to strike)

Unwillingness to back off you? I haven't said one word about you since Day began. What do you call that?

Long Con wrote:I've got another one, just for fun. This one, I feel is more of a doozy.

How does an information role sub back into a game after he dies? Maybe Dom 1.0 failed to send in a Lie Detect on both night 1 and 2. That's a way, and I don't think that happened. I don't think Dom, even if he didn't have the most time to post, would miss two extraordinarily powerful night power submissions in a row. He wasn't that out of the game.

Finding out someone lied, or finding out they told the truth, about something specifically chosen to be relevatory (not a word?) about their alignment... is important information, and it is information that Dom 2.0 could not un-know. He could agree to play as though he didn't have that knowledge, but it doesn't erase it.

If Dom 1.0 got info that was totally irrelevant to the game, giving him the ability to sub in on any team that needed it, then I move that this irrelevant knowledge be made public. Even if that knowledge is "Dom 1.0 didn't send in a PM either night", it's still something Dom knows and the rest of us don't know. The only way to maintain game integrity is to share it. Or lay out a point of view that shows me another way it could be, because I don't see it.

So... here's the way that I believe it happened. It's a way that avoids all this "awkwardness" and unbalanced knowledge. Dom was Count Olaf, and his secret is that, not only does he trick role checkers into thinking he's a Civ, but he has the 'Seemer' ability to fool the lynch as well. Dom appeared to be Josephine, and was not.

How do you let a baddie sub back into a game? Literally the only way is to put him back on his team. A dead baddie is able to fill the hole in the team that is an absent player.

Dom, I can see that there has been some stuff that irked you since you came back, and I don't want to upset you, I'm not trying to throw bullshit at you. The only reason I'm saying this is because it's the most logical way to explain how you were possibly able to sub in after being lynched as an information role. If I'm right, I'm sorry to have to be right like this, but, like a dead info role, I can't unknow what I think I know.

So there you go, depending on how right I am tonight, the Guardians and the Troupe both want me dead now. I doubt I would have lucked my way all the way through the game anyway. Good night!

I said that first.

Epignosis wrote:I said that first.

I know.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote:Job interview today. Not gonna post until this afternoon.

good luck! What are you interviewing for?

Epignosis wrote:

Golden wrote:LC - whether or not you prove correct, I believe that is something epi would thoroughly enjoy doing.

No. That's something MM or Wilgy would enjoy doing.

I'm not sure about MM, but wilgy for sure. Was he alive at that point? If so...I can try to do one of those ISO things on him today after the kids are done with school. Maybe it will further support my suspicions of Dom J/k. Or am I?!

Epignosis wrote:

Golden wrote:LC - whether or not you prove correct, I believe that is something epi would thoroughly enjoy doing.

No.

I'm not even a Lie Detector and I'm calling it on this one. How would such a play not be enjoyable - especially if successful? Maybe tell the truth this time. Just admitting you would enjoy doing that isn't an admission that you did do it. The Epi doth protest too much, methinks.

Elohcin wrote:

Jackofhearts2005 wrote:Job interview today. Not gonna post until this afternoon.

good luck! What are you interviewing for?

Epignosis wrote:

Golden wrote:LC - whether or not you prove correct, I believe that is something epi would thoroughly enjoy doing.

No. That's something MM or Wilgy would enjoy doing.

I'm not sure about MM, but wilgy for sure. Was he alive at that point? If so...I can try to do one of those ISO things on him today after the kids are done with school. Maybe it will further support my suspicions of Dom J/k. Or am I?!

You know... I can hear the rising swell of panic beneath your casual overtones.

Dom wrote:Nice ham. How the hell am I supposed to respond?

Wrong.

I don't know how you can respond, due to you being the only person in the game that isn't allowed to discuss Dom 1.0. Maybe we can move to the hypothetical.

Dom, how can an information role sub back into a game while still maintaining the same level of balance that previously existed?

Long Con wrote:

Epignosis wrote:

Golden wrote:LC - whether or not you prove correct, I believe that is something epi would thoroughly enjoy doing.

No.

I'm not even a Lie Detector and I'm calling it on this one. How would such a play not be enjoyable - especially if successful? Maybe tell the truth this time. Just admitting you would enjoy doing that isn't an admission that you did do it. The Epi doth protest too much, methinks.

No. It isn't creative. I would be having fun creating the curses and challenging people's ability to coherently communicate.

I'm still alive, huh...

MovingPictures07 wrote:I'm still alive, huh...

Wow, not bad. I forgot you were playing. Congrats!

Epignosis wrote:

Long Con wrote:

Epignosis wrote:

Golden wrote:LC - whether or not you prove correct, I believe that is something epi would thoroughly enjoy doing.

No.

I'm not even a Lie Detector and I'm calling it on this one. How would such a play not be enjoyable - especially if successful? Maybe tell the truth this time. Just admitting you would enjoy doing that isn't an admission that you did do it. The Epi doth protest too much, methinks.

No. It isn't creative. I would be having fun creating the curses and challenging people's ability to coherently communicate.

Damn Epi... now that does sound true to me. Me too.