The Flash: Battle for the Gem Cities (Day 12)

[S~V~S]

I was unaware that you & Timmer have a quasi parental bond, Lol (that's how I knew Bass was online, he PMed me to wish me happy mothers day). I do think it is a bit more than is the norm for YOU, not me, though, TH. The fact that I feel way better about you than Timmer makes me want to reread you to see what I have missed.

Because I must be missing something, some subtext. Not sure if that will change my mind, but I always tend to think Tim is bad.

And I have to agree with FZ the her BTS breakdown.

[Draconus]

For whomever asked yesterday about my thoughts on Sophie, it was TH I believe, I had some very distinct thoughts on her. She felt floundery but civ, based on both things in and out of thread. But her vote yesterday was disturbing to me. Which is why I asked her that question ^^ (Note to self: Sherry, learn to think before hitting "Submit", you may have more to say) because I would have expected her to have done something different on a short read of the thread.

I'm glad you brought this up again, SVS. I was going to do the same. I was quite serious about my "you're bad" response to Sophie's vote. That was the blendiest bandwagon vote I've seen in several games (and I've done some blendy bandwagoning myself in the past). So I'd like to see Sophie's response to your question before I inevitably cast my vote for her.

[Black Rock]

Here is the alive player list:

Black Rock
Metalmarsh89
S~V~S
Bass 2.0
Long Con
rabbit8
Devin the Omniscient
FZ
Turnip Head
Spacedaisy
Sophie
thellama73
Soneji
Timmer
Dream

If I remove people not paying attention enough to have such elaborate curses, or replacements because this role has been active, it looks like this:

Black Rock
Metalmarsh89
S~V~S
Long Con
rabbit8
FZ
Turnip Head
Spacedaisy
thellama73
Timmer

Then I take out people mind controlled and the confirmed:

S~V~S
Long Con
FZ
Turnip Head
Spacedaisy
Timmer

Now if you want to consider Timmer framed:

S~V~S
Long Con
FZ
Turnip Head
Spacedaisy

That's a mighty short list. There is one other person I would take off that list because of my own reasons but I left that person on for now. Looking at this list I would put Turnip Head at the top followed by SVS and FZ. Although I must confess if MM wasn't cursed then I would totally suspect him. I think he has the flavour for this. Also that is IF Timmer was framed.

[Turnip Head]

I do think it is a bit more than is the norm for YOU, not me, though, TH.

I wouldn't say that's true. I defend people when I feel good about them and I think they're being wrongly accused. At this point I don't even know what Timmer is being accused of, except mind control by BR and of not being helpful in a retroactive case by MM. I've laid out some reasons why I feel good about Timmer. You should reread me , I think you missed the part where I had real-time interaction with Timmer during the Bass lynch in square chat. That is definitely influencing my opinion of him.

And I agree with FZ's BTSC breakdown too, lol.

linki: Interesting list BR Why am I at the top of it?

[Draconus]

Rainbow rezz?

I enjoyed your use of the Colourizer at the end there.

Damn straight. I deserve a rezz.

I agree. That would guaranty another win for you, though, you twat

[Black Rock]

I do think it is a bit more than is the norm for YOU, not me, though, TH.

I wouldn't say that's true. I defend people when I feel good about them and I think they're being wrongly accused. At this point I don't even know what Timmer is being accused of, except mind control by BR and of not being helpful in a retroactive case by MM. I've laid out some reasons why I feel good about Timmer. You should reread me , I think you missed the part where I had real-time interaction with Timmer during the Bass lynch in square chat. That is definitely influencing my opinion of him.

And I agree with FZ's BTSC breakdown too, lol.

linki: Interesting list BR Why am I at the top of it?

Because the mind control is well thought out and clever.

[Turnip Head]

Well I'm not the one behind this

[Marmot]

I do think it is a bit more than is the norm for YOU, not me, though, TH.

I wouldn't say that's true. I defend people when I feel good about them and I think they're being wrongly accused. At this point I don't even know what Timmer is being accused of, except mind control by BR and of not being helpful in a retroactive case by MM. I've laid out some reasons why I feel good about Timmer. You should reread me , I think you missed the part where I had real-time interaction with Timmer during the Bass lynch in square chat. That is definitely influencing my opinion of him.

And I agree with FZ's BTSC breakdown too, lol.

linki: Interesting list BR Why am I at the top of it?

You also don't talk at night when you are civvie or civvie-friendly.

[Marmot]

I do think it is a bit more than is the norm for YOU, not me, though, TH.

I wouldn't say that's true. I defend people when I feel good about them and I think they're being wrongly accused. At this point I don't even know what Timmer is being accused of, except mind control by BR and of not being helpful in a retroactive case by MM. I've laid out some reasons why I feel good about Timmer. You should reread me , I think you missed the part where I had real-time interaction with Timmer during the Bass lynch in square chat. That is definitely influencing my opinion of him.

And I agree with FZ's BTSC breakdown too, lol.

linki: Interesting list BR Why am I at the top of it?

Because the mind control is well thought out and clever.

BR, how did your mind control work again?

I was forced to make a case on Bullzeye, and vote for Bullzeye. This happened on Day 3. Bullzeye was NK'd on Night 4, and probably one of them coming from the very team that forced me to make a case on him.

So whoever mind-controlled me wanted Bullzeye dead.

[Turnip Head]

You also don't talk at night when you are civvie or civvie-friendly.

That's not always true, that's an inaccurate generalization of how I play. And you didn't answer my questions.

[Sophie]

For whomever asked yesterday about my thoughts on Sophie, it was TH I believe, I had some very distinct thoughts on her. She felt floundery but civ, based on both things in and out of thread. But her vote yesterday was disturbing to me. Which is why I asked her that question ^^ (Note to self: Sherry, learn to think before hitting "Submit", you may have more to say) because I would have expected her to have done something different on a short read of the thread.

And LC, I read your whole post & your whole case. It was lovely but it was still wrong

You can craft an amazing post that takes you weeks to write, but if it says what yours did, it would be wrong, and that is the salient point as far as I am concerned. I can do a point by point for you later (overslept this AM, only tiny online time before work, and now that I am driving again, no bus leisure time, either, anymore)

I am assuming Bass was silenced yesterday since I know he was on site and did not post here. I look forward to hearing his take on this lynch. TH is defending Timmer verging on Cap't Obvious territory, which gives me some pause. Don't know why he would do such a thing while bad, but based on my worldview of this game, can't see how else that would work. I have detectives in mind, I have a CC/HW in mind. so... urh.

Mp was all over the place. At some point he was almost like confessing baddie status. I dont know why he would act like that as an independent, still dont know.
The other suspect was timmer, who i ve been reading abd thinkin about...like i said before, im reading him as civvie, but it wouldnt been the first time he fooled me, so i kept my eye on him anyway, and actually brs theory that he was mind controlling people made me think about voting for him, until....some people started "vouching" for him, wich made his claim that he is a civvie a bit more likely. It seems he has btsc with a couple of people (via map) and somehow is making peeps like th thinks he is legit. That gave me pause on timmer again. Until mp did all his act and took over the thread with thaf overwhelmingly suspiciod beahviour i still dont get.

So im still open about timmer. And i reafirm my suspicion on rabbit (i ve saying it since day 1), and would have voted him if he had 1 vote and mp didnt do what he did. I also need to rethink something about bass, based on thing i know and some of his posts.... bbl with more thoughts


(Sorry for typos, im on phone)

[Marmot]

I seem to have missed these questions.

Well it's hard to be helpful when you spend all day getting accused of mind controlling people and receiving votes. He was on the defensive all day. And frankly not many people spoke up with suspicions today because this lynch got derailed by whatever was going on with MP.

I would think though, if Timmer were bad, he would have spent less time talking about who he didn't want to lynch and more time talking about who we should lynch instead of him.

Is he trying to be helpful or not though?

I feel like I've already answered this... I think he's trying to be helpful. You're looking solely at his contributions today and asking me if those contributions are helpful... I'm looking at the entirety of his play because today is just one piece of the Timmer puzzle.

It feels like you're retroactively trying to highlight his actions today, in a vacuum, as bad, after the vote is over. Did you give a reason for voting Timmer today? Did you feel during Day 5 that Timmer has not been helpful this game?

I did not give a reason at the time of my vote, no.

I feel that timmer is 'trying' to be helpful. I also notice that you are calling him both helpful and unhelpful today.

[Black Rock]

I do think it is a bit more than is the norm for YOU, not me, though, TH.

I wouldn't say that's true. I defend people when I feel good about them and I think they're being wrongly accused. At this point I don't even know what Timmer is being accused of, except mind control by BR and of not being helpful in a retroactive case by MM. I've laid out some reasons why I feel good about Timmer. You should reread me , I think you missed the part where I had real-time interaction with Timmer during the Bass lynch in square chat. That is definitely influencing my opinion of him.

And I agree with FZ's BTSC breakdown too, lol.

linki: Interesting list BR Why am I at the top of it?

Because the mind control is well thought out and clever.

BR, how did your mind control work again?

I was forced to make a case on Bullzeye, and vote for Bullzeye. This happened on Day 3. Bullzeye was NK'd on Night 4, and probably one of them coming from the very team that forced me to make a case on him.

So whoever mind-controlled me wanted Bullzeye dead.

I had to build a case linking Roxy and aces. I also could not mention Timmer. When I talked to the host about it he basically told me I had to ignore his existence. No quotes, nicknames, or references to him. Roxy was killed the night I was cursed so I based it around Aces, they likely wanted both of them dead. They likely want Timmer alive.

[Sophie]

In your mind control you were specificqlly told not to mention timmer?

Kind of twisted. I mean, if timmer himself did it, it seems too obvious but also clever in an a "i wouldnt do something that obvious" kind of way, and if someone else did it, it could make you focus on timmer or have him in the back of your head as a suspish. Something to think about

[Long Con]

I do think it is a bit more than is the norm for YOU, not me, though, TH.

I wouldn't say that's true. I defend people when I feel good about them and I think they're being wrongly accused. At this point I don't even know what Timmer is being accused of, except mind control by BR and of not being helpful in a retroactive case by MM. I've laid out some reasons why I feel good about Timmer. You should reread me , I think you missed the part where I had real-time interaction with Timmer during the Bass lynch in square chat. That is definitely influencing my opinion of him.

And I agree with FZ's BTSC breakdown too, lol.

linki: Interesting list BR Why am I at the top of it?

Because the mind control is well thought out and clever.

BR, how did your mind control work again?

I was forced to make a case on Bullzeye, and vote for Bullzeye. This happened on Day 3. Bullzeye was NK'd on Night 4, and probably one of them coming from the very team that forced me to make a case on him.

So whoever mind-controlled me wanted Bullzeye dead.

What about you saying "Timmer" instead of any other pronoun?

[FZ.]

I do think it is a bit more than is the norm for YOU, not me, though, TH.

I wouldn't say that's true. I defend people when I feel good about them and I think they're being wrongly accused. At this point I don't even know what Timmer is being accused of, except mind control by BR and of not being helpful in a retroactive case by MM. I've laid out some reasons why I feel good about Timmer. You should reread me , I think you missed the part where I had real-time interaction with Timmer during the Bass lynch in square chat. That is definitely influencing my opinion of him.

And I agree with FZ's BTSC breakdown too, lol.

linki: Interesting list BR Why am I at the top of it?

Because the mind control is well thought out and clever.

So I'm only the third clever one in that group?
Seriously though, how do we know none of the cursed was doing it to themselves?

[Marmot]

I do think it is a bit more than is the norm for YOU, not me, though, TH.

I wouldn't say that's true. I defend people when I feel good about them and I think they're being wrongly accused. At this point I don't even know what Timmer is being accused of, except mind control by BR and of not being helpful in a retroactive case by MM. I've laid out some reasons why I feel good about Timmer. You should reread me , I think you missed the part where I had real-time interaction with Timmer during the Bass lynch in square chat. That is definitely influencing my opinion of him.

And I agree with FZ's BTSC breakdown too, lol.

linki: Interesting list BR Why am I at the top of it?

Because the mind control is well thought out and clever.

BR, how did your mind control work again?

I was forced to make a case on Bullzeye, and vote for Bullzeye. This happened on Day 3. Bullzeye was NK'd on Night 4, and probably one of them coming from the very team that forced me to make a case on him.

So whoever mind-controlled me wanted Bullzeye dead.

What about you saying "Timmer" instead of any other pronoun?

Yes, that was part of it, but not the part I was most interested in looking at.

And it wasn't pronouns persay. I had to replace every player's name with timmer, as well as any first person reference.

Linki: I don't get think any of the cursed did it to themselves (myself included).

[Marmot]

Here is my theory. Perhaps there are a couple New Rogues who are already in league together, probably Plunder and the Top, as well as possibly Blacksmith. Blacksmith is searching nightly for players, and if she comes across someone not on their team, Top mind control's someone to try to get that player lynched. If that doesn't work, then Plunder kills them.

Plunder notably did not kill on Night 2 (or it failed?) so there is a good chance that was a replaced player. There are a couple who fit in that status: Bass, Devin, DREAM (obviously not MP).

For what it's worth, TH and timmer stated late after the fact that they had an early bout of BTSC (almost like they discussed whether to reveal it or not). The Golden Glider is dead, and Bass 2.0 has proposed that Roxy was Captain Cold. If Bass 2.0 is right, then why would TH continue to vehemently defend timmer even after their BTSC was lost?

[Turnip Head]

For what it's worth, TH and timmer stated late after the fact that they had an early bout of BTSC (almost like they discussed whether to reveal it or not). The Golden Glider is dead, and Bass 2.0 has proposed that Roxy was Captain Cold. If Bass 2.0 is right, then why would TH continue to vehemently defend timmer even after their BTSC was lost?

Good question MM. Why would I continue to defend Timmer... hmmm... I guess it could be because we're baddies together and I'm being really super obvious about it, which is not my style at all... or maybe it's because I don't think he's bad.

I had no reason to disclose that I had BTSC with Timmer until recently, it would have served no purpose. I brought it up recently because I thought it would help explain why I'm viewing Timmer as not a New Rogue.

By bringing up Glider and CC/HW, you are acting like a player can only defend people they have BTSC with. You are missing that the entire point of mafia is to figure out who's bad and who's good, and that it's usually done without BTSC.

[Turnip Head]

I had to build a case linking Roxy and aces. I also could not mention Timmer. When I talked to the host about it he basically told me I had to ignore his existence. No quotes, nicknames, or references to him. Roxy was killed the night I was cursed so I based it around Aces, they likely wanted both of them dead. They likely want Timmer alive.

I think they likely wanted Timmer to be the focal point of discussion, knowing you would bring this up the very next day since everyone has been openly talking about mind control. Unless the Top didn't have the foresight to think of that, in which case it is the opposite of being clever or well thought out.

[Marmot]

For what it's worth, TH and timmer stated late after the fact that they had an early bout of BTSC (almost like they discussed whether to reveal it or not). The Golden Glider is dead, and Bass 2.0 has proposed that Roxy was Captain Cold. If Bass 2.0 is right, then why would TH continue to vehemently defend timmer even after their BTSC was lost?

Good question MM. Why would I continue to defend Timmer... hmmm... I guess it could be because we're baddies together and I'm being really super obvious about it, which is not my style at all... or maybe it's because I don't think he's bad.

I had no reason to disclose that I had BTSC with Timmer until recently, it would have served no purpose. I brought it up recently because I thought it would help explain why I'm viewing Timmer as not a New Rogue.

By bringing up Glider and CC/HW, you are acting like a player can only defend people they have BTSC with. You are missing that the entire point of mafia is to figure out who's bad and who's good, and that it's usually done without BTSC.

But it doesn't explain why you are viewing timmer as not a New Rogue. I don't understand.

And I really don't like your late vote for MP, with the lynch tied between timmer and MP.

This night period, you have called timmer contributing and helpful, while also giving reasons for why he has not been helpful.

[Turnip Head]

But it doesn't explain why you are viewing timmer as not a New Rogue. I don't understand.

In that case maybe you didn't read any of the reasons I gave for defending him and instead simply focused on the fact I was defending him. Go back and read my posts and let me know if you still don't understand.

And I really don't like your late vote for MP, with the lynch tied between timmer and MP.

I specifically said I was going to do this very thing. I didn't want either of them to be lynched yesterday, and I tried to push the lynch onto DREAM, but I said if it came to Timmer or MP, I would be voting MP. MP practically begged me to do so, even.

This night period, you have called timmer contributing and helpful, while also giving reasons for why he has not been helpful.

Okay...

[Turnip Head]

It doesn't show in the poll anymore, but there was a time late in that lynch where MP had 4 votes (including his own), Timmer had 3, and DREAM had 3. I tried to get MP to move his vote but he wouldn't. Then Llama and Devin flipped their votes off of DREAM and onto Timmer, so I switched to MP.

[FZ.]

I kept defending TImmer too. From my point of view, I can totally see why he would do it if he believed he was good. MP didn't want Timmer gone either, so there's another person for you.

There are so many things people are taking for granted. For example, why doesn't anyone even consider that BR fabricated being cursed. If you look at all other curses and mind controls, hers seems too easy. She just had to fabricate a case on someone. Knowing that people talked about their curses or mind controls, that just seems silly to do if it didn't get that person lynched.

On the other hand, if there is one good mind control for baddies, it's to tell someone to build a case on someone else. All others are just pointless, no matter how fun. So why the hell did the person coming up with those waste all that time?

[Draconus]

Mp was all over the place. At some point he was almost like confessing baddie status. I dont know why he would act like that as an independent, still dont know.
The other suspect was timmer, who i ve been reading abd thinkin about...like i said before, im reading him as civvie, but it wouldnt been the first time he fooled me, so i kept my eye on him anyway, and actually brs theory that he was mind controlling people made me think about voting for him, until....some people started "vouching" for him, wich made his claim that he is a civvie a bit more likely. It seems he has btsc with a couple of people (via map) and somehow is making peeps like th thinks he is legit. That gave me pause on timmer again. Until mp did all his act and took over the thread with thaf overwhelmingly suspiciod beahviour i still dont get.

So im still open about timmer. And i reafirm my suspicion on rabbit (i ve saying it since day 1), and would have voted him if he had 1 vote and mp didnt do what he did. I also need to rethink something about bass, based on thing i know and some of his posts.... bbl with more thoughts

I still don't care for your reasons for voting MP. But I'm leaning more towards a couple of others for the next day.
I can, at least agree with you on the Timmer and Rabbit fronts. I would be comfortable with another Timmer vote. My warm and fuzzy feelings here are very fuzzy, indeed. He's been giving off strong "civ"/Old Rogue feels and I can't help but fear they may be manufactured.
And Rabbit is certainly an odd ball.

Lots of linki.

[Marmot]

I completely forgot that Spacedaisy voted for MP too, after he self-voted. I'll count Sophie out since llama vouched for her. How often does it happen that we lynch a player who asks to be lynched, and they turn up bad?

And another question for you TH that I don't know if you've answered. What do you think timmer is aside from not New Rogue? I do think it is clear that he is not a Detective, so we've narrowed it down a little.

And I semi-apologize for hounding you. I'm making up for a week of not being able to mafia.

Linki: my curse was quite similar to BR's so I got the feeling that she was being honest.

[Draconus]

It doesn't show in the poll anymore, but there was a time late in that lynch where MP had 4 votes (including his own), Timmer had 3, and DREAM had 3. I tried to get MP to move his vote but he wouldn't. Then Llama and Devin flipped their votes off of DREAM and onto Timmer, so I switched to MP.

I did so because I wanted to try and save MP. I even said so. I do remember you stating that you would vote for MP to save Timmer, so I can certainly vouch for you there. I don't know why MM doesn't seem to remember that part.

[Tangrowth]

Who likes the new avatar?

:P

[Marmot]

It doesn't show in the poll anymore, but there was a time late in that lynch where MP had 4 votes (including his own), Timmer had 3, and DREAM had 3. I tried to get MP to move his vote but he wouldn't. Then Llama and Devin flipped their votes off of DREAM and onto Timmer, so I switched to MP.

Actually, I think llama moved off of MP and onto timmer. Correct me if I'm wrong.

[Marmot]

It doesn't show in the poll anymore, but there was a time late in that lynch where MP had 4 votes (including his own), Timmer had 3, and DREAM had 3. I tried to get MP to move his vote but he wouldn't. Then Llama and Devin flipped their votes off of DREAM and onto Timmer, so I switched to MP.

I did so because I wanted to try and save MP. I even said so. I do remember you stating that you would vote for MP to save Timmer, so I can certainly vouch for you there. I don't know why MM doesn't seem to remember that part.

I do, but TH also said he didn't really want MP lynched, and also acknowledged that MP might mind-controlled and that we could hopefully here from him after the fact. But rather then give MP the opportunity to explain it, he put a decisive vote on MP instead.

[Turnip Head]

I completely forgot that Spacedaisy voted for MP too, after he self-voted. I'll count Sophie out since llama vouched for her. How often does it happen that we lynch a player who asks to be lynched, and they turn up bad?

And another question for you TH that I don't know if you've answered. What do you think timmer is aside from not New Rogue? I do think it is clear that he is not a Detective, so we've narrowed it down a little.

And I semi-apologize for hounding you. I'm making up for a week of not being able to mafia.

Linki: my curse was quite similar to BR's so I got the feeling that she was being honest.

I don't have a specific role in mind for Timmer, I think he could just as easily be an independent or an Old Rogue. Hell he could be Grodd and I'd feel like an idiot for defending him.

I don't think BR is lying about her curse either, that'd be odd behavior from her IMO.

linki: Llama moved his vote around a lot, but when there were 3 votes on DREAM, I'm pretty sure it was me, Llama and Devin.

[Turnip Head]

It doesn't show in the poll anymore, but there was a time late in that lynch where MP had 4 votes (including his own), Timmer had 3, and DREAM had 3. I tried to get MP to move his vote but he wouldn't. Then Llama and Devin flipped their votes off of DREAM and onto Timmer, so I switched to MP.

I did so because I wanted to try and save MP. I even said so. I do remember you stating that you would vote for MP to save Timmer, so I can certainly vouch for you there. I don't know why MM doesn't seem to remember that part.

I do, but TH also said he didn't really want MP lynched, and also acknowledged that MP might mind-controlled and that we could hopefully here from him after the fact. But rather then give MP the opportunity to explain it, he put a decisive vote on MP instead.

Well the only alternative was to vote for Timmer, who wasn't acting like a raving lunatic. That lynch was fucked up no matter how you slice it, unfortunately. I do wish we could have given MP more time.

[Draconus]

It doesn't show in the poll anymore, but there was a time late in that lynch where MP had 4 votes (including his own), Timmer had 3, and DREAM had 3. I tried to get MP to move his vote but he wouldn't. Then Llama and Devin flipped their votes off of DREAM and onto Timmer, so I switched to MP.

I did so because I wanted to try and save MP. I even said so. I do remember you stating that you would vote for MP to save Timmer, so I can certainly vouch for you there. I don't know why MM doesn't seem to remember that part.

I do, but TH also said he didn't really want MP lynched, and also acknowledged that MP might mind-controlled and that we could hopefully here from him after the fact. But rather then give MP the opportunity to explain it, he put a decisive vote on MP instead.

If he really wanted both to live, he was definitely in a lose lose situation there. I wish that lynch could be redone

[Draconus]

And TH, I think you're correct about the DREAM votes.

[Marmot]

TH, perhaps you are confusing llama with me (but maybe not). I think I changed my vote 10 different times yesterday, but I did not vote for DREAM at all.

@MP, I love it.

Linki: I do agree with both of you.

[Draconus]

Very fitting MP

[Turnip Head]

Lmao. Awesome avatar MP.

TH, perhaps you are confusing llama with me (but maybe not). I think I changed my vote 10 different times yesterday, but I did not vote for DREAM at all.

I'm not confusing you. Yesterday Llama voted for SVS, MP, DREAM, and Timmer, and those are just the ones I remember.

[Tangrowth]

Thanks, guys. Props to LC for the new look, he's awesome.

Also, RAINBOW REZZ PLZ

[Ricochet]

^dying

[Long Con]

I completely forgot that Spacedaisy voted for MP too, after he self-voted. I'll count Sophie out since llama vouched for her. How often does it happen that we lynch a player who asks to be lynched, and they turn up bad?

And another question for you TH that I don't know if you've answered. What do you think timmer is aside from not New Rogue? I do think it is clear that he is not a Detective, so we've narrowed it down a little.

And I semi-apologize for hounding you. I'm making up for a week of not being able to mafia.

Linki: my curse was quite similar to BR's so I got the feeling that she was being honest.

I don't have a specific role in mind for Timmer, I think he could just as easily be an independent or an Old Rogue. Hell he could be Grodd and I'd feel like an idiot for defending him.

I don't think BR is lying about her curse either, that'd be odd behavior from her IMO.

linki: Llama moved his vote around a lot, but when there were 3 votes on DREAM, I'm pretty sure it was me, Llama and Devin.

I don't really have a lot of faith in map-BTSC claims since Roxy vouched for Aces and he turned out to be Professor Zoom. If we had trusted Roxy on that one, Llama would probably be dead, since that's Professor Zoom's main goal.

[Marmot]

Lmao. Awesome avatar MP.

TH, perhaps you are confusing llama with me (but maybe not). I think I changed my vote 10 different times yesterday, but I did not vote for DREAM at all.

I'm not confusing you. Yesterday Llama voted for SVS, MP, DREAM, and Timmer, and those are just the ones I remember.

I'll take your word for it. I don't remember him voting for DREAM.

But notably to me, Sophie voted for MP while llama's vote was there, and llama said he trusted Sophie right before that happened.

[timmer]

So that was a fucked up day. I can't imagine that any curse told MP to post over 100 times and act like a crazy person, so I'm left to assume that he just decided to... do that. His role was a key connector to the Old Rogues and he chose to disregard that and play as a jester, so whatever.

For the sake of having, or trying to have, a more normal day, once the day starts can everyone please just state out loud if you think I am bad or not? It makes it very hard to even defend when I cannot even tell who actually thinks I'm bad. And if you DO think I'm bad, please explain why? Some people have done a decent job of this, but others haven't.

One more time, for my defence: while the New Rogues do not start the game with BTSC, if I was a New Rogue why on EARTH, if I had zeroed in on exactly what Bass 1.0 was doing, would I push for his lynch? Just because we didn't have BTSC yet wouldn't make him any less of a teammate, and future BTSC would naturally come, so why why WHY would I go after him like that, calling him out for exactly what he was doing? And people, THE TOP is a New Rogue! So again, other than the fact that the Top apparently keeps planting things about me into the mind controls, what else is there to point to me being him, or ANY New Rogue?

[Long Con]

Also, to add something that I guess is pretty obvious, none of the mind controlled people can be Grodd (unless the mind control was faked).

I remember Llama as one of the three voters for DREAM, at the time when I posted about voting Soneji. I had read the thread, and they were saying "DREAM or Soneji", and I was hoping they picked Soneji. When I looked at the poll immediately after posting, I saw Llama, Devin, and a third player I forget, had all voted DREAM.

[Turnip Head]

I don't really have a lot of faith in map-BTSC claims since Roxy vouched for Aces and he turned out to be Professor Zoom. If we had trusted Roxy on that one, Llama would probably be dead, since that's Professor Zoom's main goal.

Long Con, my map-vouch for Timmer essentially boils down to the fact that I'm almost certain he brought up the "Bass cursed himself" theory in our chat before anyone had ever looked Bass' way in the thread. Roxy's vouch for Aces was super vague and she refused to tell us anything specific. I'm telling you exactly what Timmer did in chat AND in thread that makes me think he isn't likely to be a New Rogue. That's not a "map-vouch", that's me bringing extra evidence from the chat into the thread. Whether or not you believe me is up to you I guess.

[timmer]

I can't believe Grodd is that bad at finding people on the map to kill them, he's got to be either an inactive player or dead.

And regarding what TH is saying, if any of you have ever been in btsc with me when my brain has gone into conspiracy theory mode, you'll recognize what TH is talking about. I was very excited about my Bass idea, lol.

[Marmot]

So that was a fucked up day. I can't imagine that any curse told MP to post over 100 times and act like a crazy person, so I'm left to assume that he just decided to... do that. His role was a key connector to the Old Rogues and he chose to disregard that and play as a jester, so whatever.

For the sake of having, or trying to have, a more normal day, once the day starts can everyone please just state out loud if you think I am bad or not? It makes it very hard to even defend when I cannot even tell who actually thinks I'm bad. And if you DO think I'm bad, please explain why? Some people have done a decent job of this, but others haven't.

One more time, for my defence: while the New Rogues do not start the game with BTSC, if I was a New Rogue why on EARTH, if I had zeroed in on exactly what Bass 1.0 was doing, would I push for his lynch? Just because we didn't have BTSC yet wouldn't make him any less of a teammate, and future BTSC would naturally come, so why why WHY would I go after him like that, calling him out for exactly what he was doing? And people, THE TOP is a New Rogue! So again, other than the fact that the Top apparently keeps planting things about me into the mind controls, what else is there to point to me being him, or ANY New Rogue?

I think you're bad. I think I've made that opinion clear.

But I've not even mentioned the Bass 1.0 thing. I think there's too much wifom there to make an argument either way.


Linki: I had BTSC with you in Harry Potter, and stupidly enough, I did the heavy lifting that game.

[timmer]

For the record, if people are worried about Grodd, I'd say it wouldn't be LC, considering that at one point he referenced trying to get to Star Labs but only being able to move one step at a time and then getting shunted away. Unless that was a brilliantly subtle plant to leave in case someone called him Grodd later, I'd say there's little chance of LC being that role.

@MM, what do you mean by heavy lifting?

[Long Con]

I don't really have a lot of faith in map-BTSC claims since Roxy vouched for Aces and he turned out to be Professor Zoom. If we had trusted Roxy on that one, Llama would probably be dead, since that's Professor Zoom's main goal.

Long Con, my map-vouch for Timmer essentially boils down to the fact that I'm almost certain he brought up the "Bass cursed himself" theory in our chat before anyone had ever looked Bass' way in the thread. Roxy's vouch for Aces was super vague and she refused to tell us anything specific. I'm telling you exactly what Timmer did in chat AND in thread that makes me think he isn't likely to be a New Rogue. That's not a "map-vouch", that's me bringing extra evidence from the chat into the thread. Whether or not you believe me is up to you I guess.

Ok, I dig that. Let me just play Devil's Advocate here: What if Timmer was just hoping he was wrong?

Linki: Timmer, how do we know Grodd has a higher movement rate than the (I assume average) movement rate of 1? If we have confirmed that, I'm just forgetting.

[Marmot]

For the record, if people are worried about Grodd, I'd say it wouldn't be LC, considering that at one point he referenced trying to get to Star Labs but only being able to move one step at a time and then getting shunted away. Unless that was a brilliantly subtle plant to leave in case someone called him Grodd later, I'd say there's little chance of LC being that role.

@MM, what do you mean by heavy lifting?

You were essentially an unlynchable, unkillable role. I was the role-checker. Yet, I decided to make all the cases that game rather than trusting you to do it, which got us both killed.

[timmer]

But I've not even mentioned the Bass 1.0 thing. I think there's too much wifom there to make an argument either way.

If you know my play style, you'll know that you COULD make an argument using Bass 1.0, that I'm NOT bad. I mean, I'm not Dom. I'll ask ANYONE in this game, have you EVER even one time in ANY game ever seen me toss a possible teammate under the bus to build my own cred, when that teammate wasn't already going under? Yes, people occasionally shake up their game, but if you think I'm bad, you must then think I've disregarded EVERY aspect of my game and thrown caution to the wind and played radically different than ever before.