ASMRfia [END]

[robyn]

how long have you two known one another for

5ish years. I've played a lot of mafia and social deduction games with Rondo IRL. I introduced him to forum mafia.

how'd you meet

IRL. You'll forgive me for generally not liking to share a lot of specifics online.

We didn't meet doing social deduction games/mafia, that was more something we stumbled into realising we both liked.

I'll ask one more question then, was it in school/school club etc or outside of school

[Achromatic]

I hear that a lot. Here, I'll be gentle @NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME

Time to read day 1 Achro and why I felt good about Seanzie because I am reaching critical mass on town reads.

Ah, I thought they were fearless in going against people's wishes day 1 which I strongly read as v. I noted that they suggested Tommy get an avatar for whatever that's worth. Them thinking me saying "Seanzie didn't give a fuck" was a uncaring read and not a 'I think Seanzie is fearless' read I tend to lean town on as well from past experience. Possible all of these things are NAI for them though I am sure people will tell me.

Lol, Achromatic might be doing the thing, which means that if they flip wolf, I could probably give a game winning PoE just based off who doesn't know me well.

This does not have the vibe of someone who has a wolf partner doing absolutely nothing day one tbh. Feels in good spirits, confident.

Simply put...

Axe and Porscha have both called me lock town.

So...

Either they are mafia having spewed me town.

Or...

They are townies and their reads should be trusted.

At any rate...

I'm spewed town and out of my scumrange.

Achro is a good enough player to know that I am never mafia here...

Achro saw Seanzie/myself having a little tiff and made a tactical decision to drop a nonsense scumread on me in order to pocket Seanzie.

Because...

Achro is mafia.

Do you want to know the thing I am wary Achro is doing?

absolutely

Too bad.

Joking. I think he is treating me simiarly to how wolf!you treated town!Fext in Lost in Space or how wolf!me treated town!Gavial in Belzelbun the benign. In both cases, TMI along with someone who was posting extremely comfortably in thread that they weren't familiar with made it impossible for the wolf to even really try to imagine wolfcasing the townie.

Pretty complex line of suspicion on me for a wolf though. It's not clearing especially without me having any experience with them but it feels like they believe this genuinely to me.

I'll further add that Seanzie is likely to eventually realise that his initial scumread on me in this game was bogus and then he'll file this game under one where he read me correctly, forgetting that he demonstrably read me poorly in it and it'll further heighten his perception of his quality of reading me without even factoring in that he'll be last to get there on the most obvious town version of me and has demonstrated the worst ability to read me of everyone in this game including randoms like Flanders, Vivax and Rondo.

Yes, if by the end of today I townread you, I will consider that a correct sort.

As someone who is similar to me in which I feel you feel people's alignments out by interacting with them and often pushing them before actually fully internally committing one way or the other, I'd expect you to understand the process.

You seem awfully worried about my claim about how well I read you.

The bolded is case in point for why you're annoying to deal with. You say things that aren't alignment indicative for anyone as though they are and let them guide you to irrational solves. You've just (as you point out) rarely had to contend with a rand where we are both town before. You are a recipient of good fortune and I am a victim of it.

Of course I understand the process. But you saying you're the best mac reader ever when you're the only one here that's wrong is asinine when I know you are going to reflect on this game later as another one you got me right in. Like I am pre eye-rolling at you for pointing this game out as another example of Seanzie's masterful mac read.

I'm not saying I am the best Mac reader ever, I'm saying I've been right on you pretty much every game we've played together.

Even right now though, I don't think you read my post close enough to see what my read of you currently is. What is my read of you, right now, Mac?

This also drips of pure town egotism.

Feels like a miss unless Seanzie's meta is very complicated and well disguised tbh.

@NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME I believe you. Can you begin to peak by taking a peak at my Dizzy thoughts and giving your impressions?

So anyway now we get to Dizzy's handling of me which I find intentional and problematic. I think one of the reasons why I pushed back hard against Mac saying I have an omgus problem is because as an egocentric player how I interact with others is important to me. So when Dizzy interacts with me in a way that raises my suspicion I don't think that's OMGUS, I think it's a valid concern not to be handwaved away.

Last bit of super relevant contribution I have is that I kind of want Achro to be mafia, and I've felt the same tingling in pretty much any game I've spectated and played with him. Some players just have that aura, I think. Have the same with Arete tbh. All this not to state a read on him, I just felt myself wanting to mafia lean on him for litterally no reason, and I'm not going to. But he could still be mafia =p

For someone self-aware of how they view me they sure did trip down into wolf reading me pretty quick lol. I find this funny more than anything.

Not a huge fan of the players on her wagon tbh. Feels weird

Which players are pinging you

Dyslexicon is in my SR's

But like why tho

You don't know me at all. As far as I know, I've never played with you. I had hardly began to even play this game, and you've mentioned a couple of times being suspicious of me. I know you said gut, but even that has to come from somewhere, or no? Genuinely curious

What does "and with a > rand mafia who do it" mean? I saw Mac post >rand mafia earlier. I'm afraid the use of ( <greater than / less than> ) symbols confuses me in this instance. I'm in a few keeper leagues and we use the <> in trade talks.

A decent portion of people who don't know anything about me and that are wolves tend to shade me, because apparently I have resting target face. But I find people who don't know me and are town also does this, so I probably shouldn't read more into it. Anyway, thanks for answering about why you were suspicious. I do find your reasoning quite absurd tbh, but I'm not one to talk because I'm sure people will find some of my reasoning for reads absurd at points too. In fact, most of what makes us read people as this or that is probably absurd, which is why mafia is a stupid game. But I like stupid.

Carry on carrying on. As for reading me, I would advice to listen to people who know me well. Or don't =p

I just wanted to note this but I feel as if a lot of wolves add small nervous ticks to their posts when interacting with people. This is what I call a 'stupid tell to go off of but its way above rand so here we are' In this case the "Genuinely curious" pinged the shit out of me. As did "or don't." To be clear, not analytical in the slightest and 100% pure ping.

Oh let's see here, did I miss the context of a conversation?

Ah, I did in fact miss the word 'else' in the first post and missed the TL on Mac. Not nearly as tall of a leap as I thought before, although the phrasing is still pretty strong.

So how sure are you folks of this Mac person's town and wolf ranges because geesh.

It also seems like you didn't really check back carefully to see if Porscha was in fact town reading Mac. But I might get ahead of myself, cause I don't even think it's that unlikely that Porscha is mafia here

So I feel as if this is a start of a trend I will highlight where I feel as if Dizzy is treating me very intentionally. Dizzy is saying I didn't check back carefully on Porscha and is implying this is a scum tell for me.

Like, I'm pretty sure Mac is town here. Or egg on my face.

I dont know his range, but a question. Do you think he as town is likely to not check up on Porscha's read progression of him before casting suspicion? ;o. You pointing that out was a bit of a red flag for Mac for me since that was his only point of suspecting Porscha there whereas it was a secondary one for me.

I mean, I think that this particular point against Porscha was kind of weak to begin with. But yes, I do think Mac can jump on things or jump to conclusions. I don't really read him off of that though. I read him off of energy and whether I feel like what he's saying is just fake as fuck, which is what he feels like when he's mafia. It's a pretty noticeable difference to my memory. Egg on my face etc etc, but I think Mac believes what he says here basically.

When Mac is similarly sloppy, it's NAI, when Achromatic does it, it's suspicious. For someone who is pinged by me treating players doing similar things differently this is a strange take to have. No problem with the Mac part of this, but contrasting this with Dizzy's treatment of me feels like Dizzy was looking for a reason to scum read me rather than developing one naturally. @Dyslexicon do you have game experience with me that would lead you to believe I am more prone to sloppy case work as wolf? If so please cite the game.

out of mafia meta too, they play very similarly as both factions, never seen this from them, so i assume they dislike forum and i bullied them into it

If your home site is the only place they've played, there's bound to be a struggle to find their feet as either alignment, but I found the first games I played here, it was my homeboys pressuring me and essentially forcing my voice one way or another. A good townie who's familiar with a player from their homesite should be pushing that player to show, not coasting behind a wagon formed by players who don't know your homeboy.

I feel like you should be doing more than reserving judgement on someone you have history with because they don't fit either box you've built for them. Comes across as wolfy to me.

i’ve told them to talk more at least twice, since they are not then i can’t do much else

Omg. How active am I supposed to be. I talked yesterday and kept up with chat. I just finished reading what I missed

I don't know any of your takes or if you have takes on the game or alignments. I know it's hard when everyone and everything is new, but anything you can give in terms of impressions of other players would be helpful at this point. It doesn't have to be in any specific way. Don't think, just speak is my advice

@MacDougall we briefly mentioned possible in thread coaching by Lucy earlier. This gave off the possible same vibes to me.

Tommy*, not matt

Nooks ISO also rather wolfy.

So Nook, Lucy, Porscha, DrWilgy in current PoE

More undecided between Lucy and DrWilgy because of Tommy wagon

Ic ic if you drop wilgy and add axe we have a pretty similar world view. Thoughts on axe's explanation of not voting porscha? Felt pretty bad. What's your issue with wilgy?

Axes filter is certainly cryptic. Don't really get the movie references and don't even think they made that many different movies of Pirates OTC. But maybe I'll get it another time.
He's consistent in sheeping MacDougall, explains some Mac-Sean history.
Tone overall reads good to me.

I think I'd townlean this at least for D1 because he semi-freely gave information.
I might join him on that and go matt here.

So, just so I understand correctly.

You think it is a better chance of a hit to vote the first time FM player who is, by account of someone who knows them, outside of both their normal town AND wolf metas and has openly displayed issues with the FM format day one versus someone who by all accounts went from having a null read on Mac to having a big town read on them without showing any of their work at all.

Why do you think Tommy has even above a random chance of being a wolf atm?

Do you think Tommy is exact rand here?

Also, early game you mentioned how you'd just chop me if I had low WIM. Does this not apply to Tommy, who is arguably the one giving the least this game?

Do you think Tommy is exact rand here?

Also, early game you mentioned how you'd just chop me if I had low WIM. Does this not apply to Tommy, who is arguably the one giving the least this game?

Do I need to explain the difference between a first time FM player and yourself?

Standards, wolf ranges, etc etc.

In this context, yeah I think you do

Oh, sure.

So you are a well established player who if I put the screws to you in some form or fashion will have a relatively known range of reactions for everyone to judge you on and to attempt to divine your alignment. If you are slacking off and suddenly under a microscope that's probably going to yield information that can be read by people.

Tommy, on the other hand, is an unknown quantity and to my eye hasn't really done anything noteworthy one way or another. This is not ideal, however with their stated dislike of FM so far as well as their noted inexperience it doesn't make them very formidable wolves down the line in the 'people are right he is wolf' even if I think it is for dubious reasons. likewise, because he is inexperienced, there is a large chance he becomes polarized when he does get his teeth into the game and we can proceed more appropriately.

Trying to say Tommy is the best lynch today is like ordering your steak well done. Technically it is a thing you can do, but why?

So you wanting to put the microscope on me, so to say, would be a way to gain reactions and info out of me? Is that correct? In which case, don't count on it. Slacking is something I do from time to time, depending on time. I didn't think I would have the time to read D1 this game, but I took the time now.

Do you also not think that putting the microscope on Tommy can yield information? Also, I'm not sure why you necessarily expect him to become more clear later on, as he is for everyone but Lucy and unknown entity. And thus far he hasn't really shown any interest in contributing a whole lot or FM at all, as you allude to. Why do you expect this to change later on? I hope it does, but what if it doesn't.

Funny thing is that giving more time is something I could argue for Porscha, exactly because I do know her at least a little bit, and I've been able to find her as town in the few games I've played with her to my memory.

So I guess I just see this differently than you do.

I also don't eat meat.

I think I talked myself into

[VOTE: Tommy] aubergine

So I think the interesting thing about this is, to me, it feels really bussy. At this point we have an entire day to go and plenty of time to get information from both Porscha and Tommy but so soon after giving Tommy advice Dizzy is like "actually nah" and tosses the vote. Now, for town equity here maybe I gave Dizzy a new perspective on Porscha which is a fine thing except that today Dizzy was just right back on Porscha which doesn't exactly line up with a new perspective and wait and see approach. However maybe they are just impatient as town, which I could see.

Then day 2 rolls around and Dizzy beelines straight for me with the only possible speed bump of Porscha being a possible wolf.

So I guess the world view where Dizzy is town is easily findable despite me not liking several things. It's just Dizzy deciding I was a wolf and going on a great adventure to slay me before much had really happened, which I have seen plenty.

So I'd like people to comment on if the above posts are NAI or even pro town for Dizzy and if they think the way they treated me was scummy or just an average day for Dizzy.

To Dizzy, I'd like to hear your thoughts on the game state atm when you can. Especially Porscha and myself. Do you believe Porscha's wolf equity is strong? What about mine? What caused you to move on to Wilgy?

Probably better if I break different strings of thought into different posts as to not create a wall of death, which I think are prone to being glossed over.

First, let me discuss Dizzy and Sabi which pinged me immediately when Dizzy said this day 2:

I like Mac, Ender and Vivax for town. Strongest feelings

Have I been evicted from ur pocket

I thought about you but didn’t write you down. To be honest I exaggerated my town read on you D1. But you’re very likely town still and we’re still friends

Bold and resizing are mine, I am a scrub who can't figure out color coding very well lol

So let's go over Dizzy's Sabi progression day one:

@Achromatic You can just say that Sabi is obvtown. Is ok

You really want me n1ed lol

My sole goal for this game!

Man Sabi is such obvtown.

100 % this

I haven't really read the game, and I'm probably not going to for a while, so enjoy that.

I have Sabi and Mac as town. These are both vibes and what kind of energy they are bringing. Mac is more based in meta, which I do think I have at least a decent track record of picking up on. For Sabi, I just liked their start and their impatience, them talking about wanting to do better. So there are my friends now. Will see if that turns out good or not.

I've had a near 100% mac read since I joined TS, and I know for a fact that he is not a fan of wolfing against me. I had posted, multiple times at that point, and due to not necessarily wanting my attention as a wolf, I think he would be more likely to wager an early guess at my alignment there as town than as wolf.

Speaking just for me, I don't think you had posted anything AI at that point in the game.

Do you still scum read Mac? I have also been pretty successful in reading Mac historically. I may or may not be a bit too confident due to the fact that Mac have a had a couple of mafia games that were real bad, and I know he isn't really bad as mafia.

I was actually going to ask you about that, both Mac and Sabi. Cause I town read both. Am I bad? I could be bad.

I've had a near 100% mac read since I joined TS, and I know for a fact that he is not a fan of wolfing against me. I had posted, multiple times at that point, and due to not necessarily wanting my attention as a wolf, I think he would be more likely to wager an early guess at my alignment there as town than as wolf.

Speaking just for me, I don't think you had posted anything AI at that point in the game.

Do you still scum read Mac? I have also been pretty successful in reading Mac historically. I may or may not be a bit too confident due to the fact that Mac have a had a couple of mafia games that were real bad, and I know he isn't really bad as mafia.

I was actually going to ask you about that, both Mac and Sabi. Cause I town read both. Am I bad? I could be bad.

I've been toying with the idea that you're bad, yeah.

Mac I felt pretty confident about off very little information, and no longer feel much of anything, but I trust my early gut reactions enough to not write the read off. Sabi I never actually scumread, I just pushed there because I thought Mac was scum and I think Sabi or Mac did something that made me question if they were partners, so I decided to push there just to see if Sabi would just obvout as a wolf with Mac. They didn't, so I am no longer pushing there, even though I am kind of personally irked by how they've acted about me pushing them and they keep saying I'm "confbiasing" when really I think they're accusing me of scumreading them because of personal out-of-game things (that don't exist from my side, but I get how sometimes other people see other things so meh... I get it even if I don't think it is there), not confbiasing, and instead of considering the fact that I might actually just be playing the game and trying to figure out why I might be pushing them, they've decided to just assume they know me and have said they will just ignore me.

You can't scum read me, I already have the Ender phseal of approval gg

I get what irked you about the situation. Beyond that, I feel like Sabi felt townie both in that interaction, but especially just early game. She feels curious about the game. I have also known her to react emotionally (as we all do sometimes, and is natural in a game of mafia) on other occasions.

I like Mac on vibe and I like Mac on direction

Can I ask who you think are mafia if Mac is not mafia?

Shocked and saddened Mac and dizzy didn't want to flirt with me

Let's just do it in our mason chat tbh

So some of the bold especially leap off to me as incredibly nuanced for someone who walks into day 2 claiming to Sabi 'I exaggerated.' Especially in the context of Ender and Vivas who Dizzy did not appear to spend nearly as much time openly defending their world view on (although they did post positively about both, which I covered last post). Like, there's nothing suspicious about just forgetting to put Sabi in one of your town reads - we all forget - but the 'coverup' here doesn't pass the smell test to me because I thought Dizzy day 1 was giving nuanced, good takes on why Sabi was a strong town read. Sure, maybe it isn't 100% and that's not a problem, but it really bugs me and it is why I am very confident that Dizzy/Sabi weren't aligned ;o

Reposting for the third time some extended seanzie and dizzy thoughts since I got a notification that there is a mix up on my issue with Dizzy.

[EnderWiggin]

Idk I have yet to see anyone actually tell me dizzy's back track of their day 1 read of sabi feels genuine from the post I highlighted earlier. Dizzy wasn't saying 'after the flip I feel worse' she was saying 'I exaggerated my day 1 read of you' which really doesn't feel like it fits when I iso'd her sabi points and feels like a perspective slip. I know I am at times insufferable and a one note drum but there are only two wolves left if I am right about one that's 50% of the game.

At the very least I would like more eyes on my case to tell me why I am mislooking.

Do you think my follow up to the "Sabi is definitely town!" from Dizzy was serious before I said it wasn't serious and I was fucking around?

Well I was fucking around because I read Dizzy's tone and realised they were exaggerating.

[EnderWiggin]

how long have you two known one another for

5ish years. I've played a lot of mafia and social deduction games with Rondo IRL. I introduced him to forum mafia.

how'd you meet

IRL. You'll forgive me for generally not liking to share a lot of specifics online.

We didn't meet doing social deduction games/mafia, that was more something we stumbled into realising we both liked.

I'll ask one more question then, was it in school/school club etc or outside of school

I haven't been in school for a decade.

[robyn]

what's ur issue with dizzy @Achromatic

[EnderWiggin]

Like you're seriously underestimating how old both Rondo and I are lol.

[robyn]

how long have you two known one another for

5ish years. I've played a lot of mafia and social deduction games with Rondo IRL. I introduced him to forum mafia.

how'd you meet

IRL. You'll forgive me for generally not liking to share a lot of specifics online.

We didn't meet doing social deduction games/mafia, that was more something we stumbled into realising we both liked.

I'll ask one more question then, was it in school/school club etc or outside of school

I haven't been in school for a decade.

I thought you both were mid 20's

[RondoDimBuckle]

how long have you two known one another for

5ish years. I've played a lot of mafia and social deduction games with Rondo IRL. I introduced him to forum mafia.

how'd you meet

IRL. You'll forgive me for generally not liking to share a lot of specifics online.

We didn't meet doing social deduction games/mafia, that was more something we stumbled into realising we both liked.

I'll ask one more question then, was it in school/school club etc or outside of school

yes it was at school

[EnderWiggin]

Rondo...

Lmao.

[RondoDimBuckle]

how long have you two known one another for

5ish years. I've played a lot of mafia and social deduction games with Rondo IRL. I introduced him to forum mafia.

how'd you meet

IRL. You'll forgive me for generally not liking to share a lot of specifics online.

We didn't meet doing social deduction games/mafia, that was more something we stumbled into realising we both liked.

I'll ask one more question then, was it in school/school club etc or outside of school

I haven't been in school for a decade.

I thought you both were mid 20's

I am late 70's

[Achromatic]

I feel as if one liners are more easily explained away as jokes (hard for me to judge text tone but 100%, 'trying to get you n1'd were obvious jokes sure) but dizzy saying multiple times they had town reads on sabi and Mac and defending that sabi read in particular didn't feel as if they were unsure of it.

I do appreciate you directly discussing it with me enders because that was the point of me bringing it up and I have failed to get traction of at least discussing it in a way that I find satisfactory.

[robyn]

who is more logical between you? (ik rondo is more sporadic lol)

[Porscha]

Sabi overtly wanted to push off Porscha at one point. I told her I wanted Porscha and her reaction was to say her catch up was mid but let's see how she is d3. I insisted and she immediately dropped the shield and voted. This coincided with her unravelling emotionally. She got particularly upset when Rondo called her out because she had already voted Porscha.

I can easily see Sabi being emotional because I baited her into voting her teammate and then Rondo gave her no credit for it. It would be a very very emotionally frustrating thing for wolf Sabi to deal with.

I think you make a good point and it's possible, but posts like these made me feel like there is a distinction between her wolf ate and town ate:

Like there are zero worlds where town!Sabi doesn't acutely remember me accusing her of tmi.

Lmao I love this, two games in a world where you tunnel and conf bias me and i will flip town again. You still won't learn your lesson.

Do you ever want me to play on the syndicate because you really don't make this site fun to play on.

There's like 18 people viewing the thread and none of them are talking to me. This is like an awkward highschool dance all over again.

Back read what you missed and give me your thoughts on achro x Mac, acro x lucy, and Rondo x Mac.

but not Rondo x you or mac x you?

I feel like asking him to give me reads about my interactions would taint it. If others asked it would be cool. I don't like tainting reads on myself.

I love Rondo free spirit with the random votes. Every post of his I try to guess if he votes someone in it before I look at it. But yea, he's been a delight to read this game

To avoid polluting the thread with my "ate" I will just scream in my server that I use as a void whenever Sean tunnels me and just not respond to him.

Is that better for everyone?

just be smug in your knowledge he is about to look really dumb. Thats what I do when people tunnel me. Frustration could mean that he is right for the wrong reasons and you are getting upset about that? Thoughts?

I get frustrated when I'm conf bias a lot more when I'm Town Than mafia because I like to think I'm easy to read. So it's like why can't you read me, I'm easy

Kinda don't like that achro can't make a read on me without it being partnered/associated with someone else. I can't have an independent read like others have. I'm an individual, give me my read that isn't shoehorned in someone's else reads.

I like how both sabi and axe come in and like aww man I wanted to give someone a chance day 1

Meanwhile, achro:

Because I felt like I had a shitty D1 for giving mafia a D1 pass because it was his first forum game. Literally as soon as that flip happened I cringed and hated myself

I guess I should sheep Mac and Vivax on to Nook

But I want to read more

And I don't want to put Nook on hammer zone.

But mentally my vote is on Nook for the time being

Hammer is 8 this is weird to me

I thought it was 6

says 8 in the poll

I mis read.

THERE YOU GO, I SCUM SLIPPED.

I'M OUTTED WOLF BECAUSE I MISREAD 8 AND 6

I don't think she says some of these things or has this headspace as wolf

[EnderWiggin]

I hear that a lot. Here, I'll be gentle @NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME

Time to read day 1 Achro and why I felt good about Seanzie because I am reaching critical mass on town reads.

Ah, I thought they were fearless in going against people's wishes day 1 which I strongly read as v. I noted that they suggested Tommy get an avatar for whatever that's worth. Them thinking me saying "Seanzie didn't give a fuck" was a uncaring read and not a 'I think Seanzie is fearless' read I tend to lean town on as well from past experience. Possible all of these things are NAI for them though I am sure people will tell me.

Lol, Achromatic might be doing the thing, which means that if they flip wolf, I could probably give a game winning PoE just based off who doesn't know me well.

This does not have the vibe of someone who has a wolf partner doing absolutely nothing day one tbh. Feels in good spirits, confident.

Do you want to know the thing I am wary Achro is doing?

absolutely

Too bad.

Joking. I think he is treating me simiarly to how wolf!you treated town!Fext in Lost in Space or how wolf!me treated town!Gavial in Belzelbun the benign. In both cases, TMI along with someone who was posting extremely comfortably in thread that they weren't familiar with made it impossible for the wolf to even really try to imagine wolfcasing the townie.

Pretty complex line of suspicion on me for a wolf though. It's not clearing especially without me having any experience with them but it feels like they believe this genuinely to me.

I'll further add that Seanzie is likely to eventually realise that his initial scumread on me in this game was bogus and then he'll file this game under one where he read me correctly, forgetting that he demonstrably read me poorly in it and it'll further heighten his perception of his quality of reading me without even factoring in that he'll be last to get there on the most obvious town version of me and has demonstrated the worst ability to read me of everyone in this game including randoms like Flanders, Vivax and Rondo.

Yes, if by the end of today I townread you, I will consider that a correct sort.

As someone who is similar to me in which I feel you feel people's alignments out by interacting with them and often pushing them before actually fully internally committing one way or the other, I'd expect you to understand the process.

You seem awfully worried about my claim about how well I read you.

The bolded is case in point for why you're annoying to deal with. You say things that aren't alignment indicative for anyone as though they are and let them guide you to irrational solves. You've just (as you point out) rarely had to contend with a rand where we are both town before. You are a recipient of good fortune and I am a victim of it.

Of course I understand the process. But you saying you're the best mac reader ever when you're the only one here that's wrong is asinine when I know you are going to reflect on this game later as another one you got me right in. Like I am pre eye-rolling at you for pointing this game out as another example of Seanzie's masterful mac read.

I'm not saying I am the best Mac reader ever, I'm saying I've been right on you pretty much every game we've played together.

Even right now though, I don't think you read my post close enough to see what my read of you currently is. What is my read of you, right now, Mac?

This also drips of pure town egotism.

Feels like a miss unless Seanzie's meta is very complicated and well disguised tbh.

@NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME I believe you. Can you begin to peak by taking a peak at my Dizzy thoughts and giving your impressions?

So anyway now we get to Dizzy's handling of me which I find intentional and problematic. I think one of the reasons why I pushed back hard against Mac saying I have an omgus problem is because as an egocentric player how I interact with others is important to me. So when Dizzy interacts with me in a way that raises my suspicion I don't think that's OMGUS, I think it's a valid concern not to be handwaved away.

Last bit of super relevant contribution I have is that I kind of want Achro to be mafia, and I've felt the same tingling in pretty much any game I've spectated and played with him. Some players just have that aura, I think. Have the same with Arete tbh. All this not to state a read on him, I just felt myself wanting to mafia lean on him for litterally no reason, and I'm not going to. But he could still be mafia =p

For someone self-aware of how they view me they sure did trip down into wolf reading me pretty quick lol. I find this funny more than anything.

Not a huge fan of the players on her wagon tbh. Feels weird

Which players are pinging you

Dyslexicon is in my SR's

But like why tho

You don't know me at all. As far as I know, I've never played with you. I had hardly began to even play this game, and you've mentioned a couple of times being suspicious of me. I know you said gut, but even that has to come from somewhere, or no? Genuinely curious

What does "and with a > rand mafia who do it" mean? I saw Mac post >rand mafia earlier. I'm afraid the use of ( <greater than / less than> ) symbols confuses me in this instance. I'm in a few keeper leagues and we use the <> in trade talks.

A decent portion of people who don't know anything about me and that are wolves tend to shade me, because apparently I have resting target face. But I find people who don't know me and are town also does this, so I probably shouldn't read more into it. Anyway, thanks for answering about why you were suspicious. I do find your reasoning quite absurd tbh, but I'm not one to talk because I'm sure people will find some of my reasoning for reads absurd at points too. In fact, most of what makes us read people as this or that is probably absurd, which is why mafia is a stupid game. But I like stupid.

Carry on carrying on. As for reading me, I would advice to listen to people who know me well. Or don't =p

I just wanted to note this but I feel as if a lot of wolves add small nervous ticks to their posts when interacting with people. This is what I call a 'stupid tell to go off of but its way above rand so here we are' In this case the "Genuinely curious" pinged the shit out of me. As did "or don't." To be clear, not analytical in the slightest and 100% pure ping.

Oh let's see here, did I miss the context of a conversation?

Ah, I did in fact miss the word 'else' in the first post and missed the TL on Mac. Not nearly as tall of a leap as I thought before, although the phrasing is still pretty strong.

So how sure are you folks of this Mac person's town and wolf ranges because geesh.

It also seems like you didn't really check back carefully to see if Porscha was in fact town reading Mac. But I might get ahead of myself, cause I don't even think it's that unlikely that Porscha is mafia here

So I feel as if this is a start of a trend I will highlight where I feel as if Dizzy is treating me very intentionally. Dizzy is saying I didn't check back carefully on Porscha and is implying this is a scum tell for me.

Like, I'm pretty sure Mac is town here. Or egg on my face.

I dont know his range, but a question. Do you think he as town is likely to not check up on Porscha's read progression of him before casting suspicion? ;o. You pointing that out was a bit of a red flag for Mac for me since that was his only point of suspecting Porscha there whereas it was a secondary one for me.

I mean, I think that this particular point against Porscha was kind of weak to begin with. But yes, I do think Mac can jump on things or jump to conclusions. I don't really read him off of that though. I read him off of energy and whether I feel like what he's saying is just fake as fuck, which is what he feels like when he's mafia. It's a pretty noticeable difference to my memory. Egg on my face etc etc, but I think Mac believes what he says here basically.

When Mac is similarly sloppy, it's NAI, when Achromatic does it, it's suspicious. For someone who is pinged by me treating players doing similar things differently this is a strange take to have. No problem with the Mac part of this, but contrasting this with Dizzy's treatment of me feels like Dizzy was looking for a reason to scum read me rather than developing one naturally. @Dyslexicon do you have game experience with me that would lead you to believe I am more prone to sloppy case work as wolf? If so please cite the game.

If your home site is the only place they've played, there's bound to be a struggle to find their feet as either alignment, but I found the first games I played here, it was my homeboys pressuring me and essentially forcing my voice one way or another. A good townie who's familiar with a player from their homesite should be pushing that player to show, not coasting behind a wagon formed by players who don't know your homeboy.

I feel like you should be doing more than reserving judgement on someone you have history with because they don't fit either box you've built for them. Comes across as wolfy to me.

i’ve told them to talk more at least twice, since they are not then i can’t do much else

Omg. How active am I supposed to be. I talked yesterday and kept up with chat. I just finished reading what I missed

I don't know any of your takes or if you have takes on the game or alignments. I know it's hard when everyone and everything is new, but anything you can give in terms of impressions of other players would be helpful at this point. It doesn't have to be in any specific way. Don't think, just speak is my advice

@MacDougall we briefly mentioned possible in thread coaching by Lucy earlier. This gave off the possible same vibes to me.

Ic ic if you drop wilgy and add axe we have a pretty similar world view. Thoughts on axe's explanation of not voting porscha? Felt pretty bad. What's your issue with wilgy?

Axes filter is certainly cryptic. Don't really get the movie references and don't even think they made that many different movies of Pirates OTC. But maybe I'll get it another time.
He's consistent in sheeping MacDougall, explains some Mac-Sean history.
Tone overall reads good to me.

I think I'd townlean this at least for D1 because he semi-freely gave information.
I might join him on that and go matt here.

So, just so I understand correctly.

You think it is a better chance of a hit to vote the first time FM player who is, by account of someone who knows them, outside of both their normal town AND wolf metas and has openly displayed issues with the FM format day one versus someone who by all accounts went from having a null read on Mac to having a big town read on them without showing any of their work at all.

Why do you think Tommy has even above a random chance of being a wolf atm?

Do you think Tommy is exact rand here?

Also, early game you mentioned how you'd just chop me if I had low WIM. Does this not apply to Tommy, who is arguably the one giving the least this game?

Do I need to explain the difference between a first time FM player and yourself?

Standards, wolf ranges, etc etc.

In this context, yeah I think you do

Oh, sure.

So you are a well established player who if I put the screws to you in some form or fashion will have a relatively known range of reactions for everyone to judge you on and to attempt to divine your alignment. If you are slacking off and suddenly under a microscope that's probably going to yield information that can be read by people.

Tommy, on the other hand, is an unknown quantity and to my eye hasn't really done anything noteworthy one way or another. This is not ideal, however with their stated dislike of FM so far as well as their noted inexperience it doesn't make them very formidable wolves down the line in the 'people are right he is wolf' even if I think it is for dubious reasons. likewise, because he is inexperienced, there is a large chance he becomes polarized when he does get his teeth into the game and we can proceed more appropriately.

Trying to say Tommy is the best lynch today is like ordering your steak well done. Technically it is a thing you can do, but why?

So you wanting to put the microscope on me, so to say, would be a way to gain reactions and info out of me? Is that correct? In which case, don't count on it. Slacking is something I do from time to time, depending on time. I didn't think I would have the time to read D1 this game, but I took the time now.

Do you also not think that putting the microscope on Tommy can yield information? Also, I'm not sure why you necessarily expect him to become more clear later on, as he is for everyone but Lucy and unknown entity. And thus far he hasn't really shown any interest in contributing a whole lot or FM at all, as you allude to. Why do you expect this to change later on? I hope it does, but what if it doesn't.

Funny thing is that giving more time is something I could argue for Porscha, exactly because I do know her at least a little bit, and I've been able to find her as town in the few games I've played with her to my memory.

So I guess I just see this differently than you do.

I also don't eat meat.

I think I talked myself into

[VOTE: Tommy] aubergine

So I think the interesting thing about this is, to me, it feels really bussy. At this point we have an entire day to go and plenty of time to get information from both Porscha and Tommy but so soon after giving Tommy advice Dizzy is like "actually nah" and tosses the vote. Now, for town equity here maybe I gave Dizzy a new perspective on Porscha which is a fine thing except that today Dizzy was just right back on Porscha which doesn't exactly line up with a new perspective and wait and see approach. However maybe they are just impatient as town, which I could see.

Then day 2 rolls around and Dizzy beelines straight for me with the only possible speed bump of Porscha being a possible wolf.

So I guess the world view where Dizzy is town is easily findable despite me not liking several things. It's just Dizzy deciding I was a wolf and going on a great adventure to slay me before much had really happened, which I have seen plenty.

So I'd like people to comment on if the above posts are NAI or even pro town for Dizzy and if they think the way they treated me was scummy or just an average day for Dizzy.

To Dizzy, I'd like to hear your thoughts on the game state atm when you can. Especially Porscha and myself. Do you believe Porscha's wolf equity is strong? What about mine? What caused you to move on to Wilgy?

Probably better if I break different strings of thought into different posts as to not create a wall of death, which I think are prone to being glossed over.

First, let me discuss Dizzy and Sabi which pinged me immediately when Dizzy said this day 2:

I like Mac, Ender and Vivax for town. Strongest feelings

Have I been evicted from ur pocket

I thought about you but didn’t write you down. To be honest I exaggerated my town read on you D1. But you’re very likely town still and we’re still friends

Bold and resizing are mine, I am a scrub who can't figure out color coding very well lol

So let's go over Dizzy's Sabi progression day one:

You really want me n1ed lol

My sole goal for this game!

Man Sabi is such obvtown.

100 % this

I haven't really read the game, and I'm probably not going to for a while, so enjoy that.

I have Sabi and Mac as town. These are both vibes and what kind of energy they are bringing. Mac is more based in meta, which I do think I have at least a decent track record of picking up on. For Sabi, I just liked their start and their impatience, them talking about wanting to do better. So there are my friends now. Will see if that turns out good or not.

I've had a near 100% mac read since I joined TS, and I know for a fact that he is not a fan of wolfing against me. I had posted, multiple times at that point, and due to not necessarily wanting my attention as a wolf, I think he would be more likely to wager an early guess at my alignment there as town than as wolf.

Speaking just for me, I don't think you had posted anything AI at that point in the game.

Do you still scum read Mac? I have also been pretty successful in reading Mac historically. I may or may not be a bit too confident due to the fact that Mac have a had a couple of mafia games that were real bad, and I know he isn't really bad as mafia.

I was actually going to ask you about that, both Mac and Sabi. Cause I town read both. Am I bad? I could be bad.

I've had a near 100% mac read since I joined TS, and I know for a fact that he is not a fan of wolfing against me. I had posted, multiple times at that point, and due to not necessarily wanting my attention as a wolf, I think he would be more likely to wager an early guess at my alignment there as town than as wolf.

Speaking just for me, I don't think you had posted anything AI at that point in the game.

Do you still scum read Mac? I have also been pretty successful in reading Mac historically. I may or may not be a bit too confident due to the fact that Mac have a had a couple of mafia games that were real bad, and I know he isn't really bad as mafia.

I was actually going to ask you about that, both Mac and Sabi. Cause I town read both. Am I bad? I could be bad.

I've been toying with the idea that you're bad, yeah.

Mac I felt pretty confident about off very little information, and no longer feel much of anything, but I trust my early gut reactions enough to not write the read off. Sabi I never actually scumread, I just pushed there because I thought Mac was scum and I think Sabi or Mac did something that made me question if they were partners, so I decided to push there just to see if Sabi would just obvout as a wolf with Mac. They didn't, so I am no longer pushing there, even though I am kind of personally irked by how they've acted about me pushing them and they keep saying I'm "confbiasing" when really I think they're accusing me of scumreading them because of personal out-of-game things (that don't exist from my side, but I get how sometimes other people see other things so meh... I get it even if I don't think it is there), not confbiasing, and instead of considering the fact that I might actually just be playing the game and trying to figure out why I might be pushing them, they've decided to just assume they know me and have said they will just ignore me.

You can't scum read me, I already have the Ender phseal of approval gg

I get what irked you about the situation. Beyond that, I feel like Sabi felt townie both in that interaction, but especially just early game. She feels curious about the game. I have also known her to react emotionally (as we all do sometimes, and is natural in a game of mafia) on other occasions.

I like Mac on vibe and I like Mac on direction

Can I ask who you think are mafia if Mac is not mafia?

Shocked and saddened Mac and dizzy didn't want to flirt with me

Let's just do it in our mason chat tbh

So some of the bold especially leap off to me as incredibly nuanced for someone who walks into day 2 claiming to Sabi 'I exaggerated.' Especially in the context of Ender and Vivas who Dizzy did not appear to spend nearly as much time openly defending their world view on (although they did post positively about both, which I covered last post). Like, there's nothing suspicious about just forgetting to put Sabi in one of your town reads - we all forget - but the 'coverup' here doesn't pass the smell test to me because I thought Dizzy day 1 was giving nuanced, good takes on why Sabi was a strong town read. Sure, maybe it isn't 100% and that's not a problem, but it really bugs me and it is why I am very confident that Dizzy/Sabi weren't aligned ;o

Reposting for the third time some extended seanzie and dizzy thoughts since I got a notification that there is a mix up on my issue with Dizzy.

Breaking down this post, I honestly think your issues come down to:

1. Nitpicking in how people type. Which I'll admit is a thing I can use too but is also part of how I misvoted Dizzy in our first game together.
2. Finding issue how they talked about Porscha, which is a scumread they obviously felt reticent about given how they backed off it after talking themselves into Tommy.
3. Your belief that the D1 read in Sabi was exaggeration, which I can tell you was something I read in their tone.

[MacDougall]

how long have you two known one another for

5ish years. I've played a lot of mafia and social deduction games with Rondo IRL. I introduced him to forum mafia.

how'd you meet

sexually

how long have you two known one another for

5ish years. I've played a lot of mafia and social deduction games with Rondo IRL. I introduced him to forum mafia.

how'd you meet

IRL. You'll forgive me for generally not liking to share a lot of specifics online.

We didn't meet doing social deduction games/mafia, that was more something we stumbled into realising we both liked.

Sorry Ender Rondo outed u guys as lovers.

[RondoDimBuckle]

I feel as if one liners are more easily explained away as jokes (hard for me to judge text tone but 100%, 'trying to get you n1'd were obvious jokes sure) but dizzy saying multiple times they had town reads on sabi and Mac and defending that sabi read in particular didn't feel as if they were unsure of it.

I do appreciate you directly discussing it with me enders because that was the point of me bringing it up and I have failed to get traction of at least discussing it in a way that I find satisfactory.

My town reads of Mac day 1 were all made up for show. So I completely believe that other people did the same thing

[EnderWiggin]

I feel as if one liners are more easily explained away as jokes (hard for me to judge text tone but 100%, 'trying to get you n1'd were obvious jokes sure) but dizzy saying multiple times they had town reads on sabi and Mac and defending that sabi read in particular didn't feel as if they were unsure of it.

I do appreciate you directly discussing it with me enders because that was the point of me bringing it up and I have failed to get traction of at least discussing it in a way that I find satisfactory.

"Exaggerated"

I have done it myself where I take a read I think is just okay and call it hard town to see what happens.

[EnderWiggin]

who is more logical between you? (ik rondo is more sporadic lol)

What is the point of this question line?

[Achromatic]

I hear that a lot. Here, I'll be gentle @NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME

Time to read day 1 Achro and why I felt good about Seanzie because I am reaching critical mass on town reads.

Ah, I thought they were fearless in going against people's wishes day 1 which I strongly read as v. I noted that they suggested Tommy get an avatar for whatever that's worth. Them thinking me saying "Seanzie didn't give a fuck" was a uncaring read and not a 'I think Seanzie is fearless' read I tend to lean town on as well from past experience. Possible all of these things are NAI for them though I am sure people will tell me.

Lol, Achromatic might be doing the thing, which means that if they flip wolf, I could probably give a game winning PoE just based off who doesn't know me well.

This does not have the vibe of someone who has a wolf partner doing absolutely nothing day one tbh. Feels in good spirits, confident.

absolutely

Too bad.

Joking. I think he is treating me simiarly to how wolf!you treated town!Fext in Lost in Space or how wolf!me treated town!Gavial in Belzelbun the benign. In both cases, TMI along with someone who was posting extremely comfortably in thread that they weren't familiar with made it impossible for the wolf to even really try to imagine wolfcasing the townie.

Pretty complex line of suspicion on me for a wolf though. It's not clearing especially without me having any experience with them but it feels like they believe this genuinely to me.

Yes, if by the end of today I townread you, I will consider that a correct sort.

As someone who is similar to me in which I feel you feel people's alignments out by interacting with them and often pushing them before actually fully internally committing one way or the other, I'd expect you to understand the process.

You seem awfully worried about my claim about how well I read you.

The bolded is case in point for why you're annoying to deal with. You say things that aren't alignment indicative for anyone as though they are and let them guide you to irrational solves. You've just (as you point out) rarely had to contend with a rand where we are both town before. You are a recipient of good fortune and I am a victim of it.

Of course I understand the process. But you saying you're the best mac reader ever when you're the only one here that's wrong is asinine when I know you are going to reflect on this game later as another one you got me right in. Like I am pre eye-rolling at you for pointing this game out as another example of Seanzie's masterful mac read.

I'm not saying I am the best Mac reader ever, I'm saying I've been right on you pretty much every game we've played together.

Even right now though, I don't think you read my post close enough to see what my read of you currently is. What is my read of you, right now, Mac?

This also drips of pure town egotism.

Feels like a miss unless Seanzie's meta is very complicated and well disguised tbh.

@NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME I believe you. Can you begin to peak by taking a peak at my Dizzy thoughts and giving your impressions?

So anyway now we get to Dizzy's handling of me which I find intentional and problematic. I think one of the reasons why I pushed back hard against Mac saying I have an omgus problem is because as an egocentric player how I interact with others is important to me. So when Dizzy interacts with me in a way that raises my suspicion I don't think that's OMGUS, I think it's a valid concern not to be handwaved away.

Last bit of super relevant contribution I have is that I kind of want Achro to be mafia, and I've felt the same tingling in pretty much any game I've spectated and played with him. Some players just have that aura, I think. Have the same with Arete tbh. All this not to state a read on him, I just felt myself wanting to mafia lean on him for litterally no reason, and I'm not going to. But he could still be mafia =p

For someone self-aware of how they view me they sure did trip down into wolf reading me pretty quick lol. I find this funny more than anything.

Which players are pinging you

Dyslexicon is in my SR's

But like why tho

You don't know me at all. As far as I know, I've never played with you. I had hardly began to even play this game, and you've mentioned a couple of times being suspicious of me. I know you said gut, but even that has to come from somewhere, or no? Genuinely curious

What does "and with a > rand mafia who do it" mean? I saw Mac post >rand mafia earlier. I'm afraid the use of ( <greater than / less than> ) symbols confuses me in this instance. I'm in a few keeper leagues and we use the <> in trade talks.

A decent portion of people who don't know anything about me and that are wolves tend to shade me, because apparently I have resting target face. But I find people who don't know me and are town also does this, so I probably shouldn't read more into it. Anyway, thanks for answering about why you were suspicious. I do find your reasoning quite absurd tbh, but I'm not one to talk because I'm sure people will find some of my reasoning for reads absurd at points too. In fact, most of what makes us read people as this or that is probably absurd, which is why mafia is a stupid game. But I like stupid.

Carry on carrying on. As for reading me, I would advice to listen to people who know me well. Or don't =p

I just wanted to note this but I feel as if a lot of wolves add small nervous ticks to their posts when interacting with people. This is what I call a 'stupid tell to go off of but its way above rand so here we are' In this case the "Genuinely curious" pinged the shit out of me. As did "or don't." To be clear, not analytical in the slightest and 100% pure ping.

Oh let's see here, did I miss the context of a conversation?

Ah, I did in fact miss the word 'else' in the first post and missed the TL on Mac. Not nearly as tall of a leap as I thought before, although the phrasing is still pretty strong.

So how sure are you folks of this Mac person's town and wolf ranges because geesh.

It also seems like you didn't really check back carefully to see if Porscha was in fact town reading Mac. But I might get ahead of myself, cause I don't even think it's that unlikely that Porscha is mafia here

So I feel as if this is a start of a trend I will highlight where I feel as if Dizzy is treating me very intentionally. Dizzy is saying I didn't check back carefully on Porscha and is implying this is a scum tell for me.

Like, I'm pretty sure Mac is town here. Or egg on my face.

I dont know his range, but a question. Do you think he as town is likely to not check up on Porscha's read progression of him before casting suspicion? ;o. You pointing that out was a bit of a red flag for Mac for me since that was his only point of suspecting Porscha there whereas it was a secondary one for me.

I mean, I think that this particular point against Porscha was kind of weak to begin with. But yes, I do think Mac can jump on things or jump to conclusions. I don't really read him off of that though. I read him off of energy and whether I feel like what he's saying is just fake as fuck, which is what he feels like when he's mafia. It's a pretty noticeable difference to my memory. Egg on my face etc etc, but I think Mac believes what he says here basically.

When Mac is similarly sloppy, it's NAI, when Achromatic does it, it's suspicious. For someone who is pinged by me treating players doing similar things differently this is a strange take to have. No problem with the Mac part of this, but contrasting this with Dizzy's treatment of me feels like Dizzy was looking for a reason to scum read me rather than developing one naturally. @Dyslexicon do you have game experience with me that would lead you to believe I am more prone to sloppy case work as wolf? If so please cite the game.

i’ve told them to talk more at least twice, since they are not then i can’t do much else

Omg. How active am I supposed to be. I talked yesterday and kept up with chat. I just finished reading what I missed

I don't know any of your takes or if you have takes on the game or alignments. I know it's hard when everyone and everything is new, but anything you can give in terms of impressions of other players would be helpful at this point. It doesn't have to be in any specific way. Don't think, just speak is my advice

@MacDougall we briefly mentioned possible in thread coaching by Lucy earlier. This gave off the possible same vibes to me.

Axes filter is certainly cryptic. Don't really get the movie references and don't even think they made that many different movies of Pirates OTC. But maybe I'll get it another time.
He's consistent in sheeping MacDougall, explains some Mac-Sean history.
Tone overall reads good to me.

I think I'd townlean this at least for D1 because he semi-freely gave information.
I might join him on that and go matt here.

So, just so I understand correctly.

You think it is a better chance of a hit to vote the first time FM player who is, by account of someone who knows them, outside of both their normal town AND wolf metas and has openly displayed issues with the FM format day one versus someone who by all accounts went from having a null read on Mac to having a big town read on them without showing any of their work at all.

Why do you think Tommy has even above a random chance of being a wolf atm?

Do you think Tommy is exact rand here?

Also, early game you mentioned how you'd just chop me if I had low WIM. Does this not apply to Tommy, who is arguably the one giving the least this game?

In this context, yeah I think you do

Oh, sure.

So you are a well established player who if I put the screws to you in some form or fashion will have a relatively known range of reactions for everyone to judge you on and to attempt to divine your alignment. If you are slacking off and suddenly under a microscope that's probably going to yield information that can be read by people.

Tommy, on the other hand, is an unknown quantity and to my eye hasn't really done anything noteworthy one way or another. This is not ideal, however with their stated dislike of FM so far as well as their noted inexperience it doesn't make them very formidable wolves down the line in the 'people are right he is wolf' even if I think it is for dubious reasons. likewise, because he is inexperienced, there is a large chance he becomes polarized when he does get his teeth into the game and we can proceed more appropriately.

Trying to say Tommy is the best lynch today is like ordering your steak well done. Technically it is a thing you can do, but why?

So you wanting to put the microscope on me, so to say, would be a way to gain reactions and info out of me? Is that correct? In which case, don't count on it. Slacking is something I do from time to time, depending on time. I didn't think I would have the time to read D1 this game, but I took the time now.

Do you also not think that putting the microscope on Tommy can yield information? Also, I'm not sure why you necessarily expect him to become more clear later on, as he is for everyone but Lucy and unknown entity. And thus far he hasn't really shown any interest in contributing a whole lot or FM at all, as you allude to. Why do you expect this to change later on? I hope it does, but what if it doesn't.

Funny thing is that giving more time is something I could argue for Porscha, exactly because I do know her at least a little bit, and I've been able to find her as town in the few games I've played with her to my memory.

So I guess I just see this differently than you do.

I also don't eat meat.

I think I talked myself into

[VOTE: Tommy] aubergine

So I think the interesting thing about this is, to me, it feels really bussy. At this point we have an entire day to go and plenty of time to get information from both Porscha and Tommy but so soon after giving Tommy advice Dizzy is like "actually nah" and tosses the vote. Now, for town equity here maybe I gave Dizzy a new perspective on Porscha which is a fine thing except that today Dizzy was just right back on Porscha which doesn't exactly line up with a new perspective and wait and see approach. However maybe they are just impatient as town, which I could see.

Then day 2 rolls around and Dizzy beelines straight for me with the only possible speed bump of Porscha being a possible wolf.

So I guess the world view where Dizzy is town is easily findable despite me not liking several things. It's just Dizzy deciding I was a wolf and going on a great adventure to slay me before much had really happened, which I have seen plenty.

So I'd like people to comment on if the above posts are NAI or even pro town for Dizzy and if they think the way they treated me was scummy or just an average day for Dizzy.

To Dizzy, I'd like to hear your thoughts on the game state atm when you can. Especially Porscha and myself. Do you believe Porscha's wolf equity is strong? What about mine? What caused you to move on to Wilgy?

Probably better if I break different strings of thought into different posts as to not create a wall of death, which I think are prone to being glossed over.

First, let me discuss Dizzy and Sabi which pinged me immediately when Dizzy said this day 2:

I like Mac, Ender and Vivax for town. Strongest feelings

Have I been evicted from ur pocket

I thought about you but didn’t write you down. To be honest I exaggerated my town read on you D1. But you’re very likely town still and we’re still friends

Bold and resizing are mine, I am a scrub who can't figure out color coding very well lol

So let's go over Dizzy's Sabi progression day one:

My sole goal for this game!

Man Sabi is such obvtown.

100 % this

I haven't really read the game, and I'm probably not going to for a while, so enjoy that.

I have Sabi and Mac as town. These are both vibes and what kind of energy they are bringing. Mac is more based in meta, which I do think I have at least a decent track record of picking up on. For Sabi, I just liked their start and their impatience, them talking about wanting to do better. So there are my friends now. Will see if that turns out good or not.

I've had a near 100% mac read since I joined TS, and I know for a fact that he is not a fan of wolfing against me. I had posted, multiple times at that point, and due to not necessarily wanting my attention as a wolf, I think he would be more likely to wager an early guess at my alignment there as town than as wolf.

Speaking just for me, I don't think you had posted anything AI at that point in the game.

Do you still scum read Mac? I have also been pretty successful in reading Mac historically. I may or may not be a bit too confident due to the fact that Mac have a had a couple of mafia games that were real bad, and I know he isn't really bad as mafia.

I was actually going to ask you about that, both Mac and Sabi. Cause I town read both. Am I bad? I could be bad.

Speaking just for me, I don't think you had posted anything AI at that point in the game.

Do you still scum read Mac? I have also been pretty successful in reading Mac historically. I may or may not be a bit too confident due to the fact that Mac have a had a couple of mafia games that were real bad, and I know he isn't really bad as mafia.

I was actually going to ask you about that, both Mac and Sabi. Cause I town read both. Am I bad? I could be bad.

I've been toying with the idea that you're bad, yeah.

Mac I felt pretty confident about off very little information, and no longer feel much of anything, but I trust my early gut reactions enough to not write the read off. Sabi I never actually scumread, I just pushed there because I thought Mac was scum and I think Sabi or Mac did something that made me question if they were partners, so I decided to push there just to see if Sabi would just obvout as a wolf with Mac. They didn't, so I am no longer pushing there, even though I am kind of personally irked by how they've acted about me pushing them and they keep saying I'm "confbiasing" when really I think they're accusing me of scumreading them because of personal out-of-game things (that don't exist from my side, but I get how sometimes other people see other things so meh... I get it even if I don't think it is there), not confbiasing, and instead of considering the fact that I might actually just be playing the game and trying to figure out why I might be pushing them, they've decided to just assume they know me and have said they will just ignore me.

You can't scum read me, I already have the Ender phseal of approval gg

I get what irked you about the situation. Beyond that, I feel like Sabi felt townie both in that interaction, but especially just early game. She feels curious about the game. I have also known her to react emotionally (as we all do sometimes, and is natural in a game of mafia) on other occasions.

I like Mac on vibe and I like Mac on direction

Can I ask who you think are mafia if Mac is not mafia?

Shocked and saddened Mac and dizzy didn't want to flirt with me

Let's just do it in our mason chat tbh

So some of the bold especially leap off to me as incredibly nuanced for someone who walks into day 2 claiming to Sabi 'I exaggerated.' Especially in the context of Ender and Vivas who Dizzy did not appear to spend nearly as much time openly defending their world view on (although they did post positively about both, which I covered last post). Like, there's nothing suspicious about just forgetting to put Sabi in one of your town reads - we all forget - but the 'coverup' here doesn't pass the smell test to me because I thought Dizzy day 1 was giving nuanced, good takes on why Sabi was a strong town read. Sure, maybe it isn't 100% and that's not a problem, but it really bugs me and it is why I am very confident that Dizzy/Sabi weren't aligned ;o

Reposting for the third time some extended seanzie and dizzy thoughts since I got a notification that there is a mix up on my issue with Dizzy.

Breaking down this post, I honestly think your issues come down to:

1. Nitpicking in how people type. Which I'll admit is a thing I can use too but is also part of how I misvoted Dizzy in our first game together.
2. Finding issue how they talked about Porscha, which is a scumread they obviously felt reticent about given how they backed off it after talking themselves into Tommy.
3. Your belief that the D1 read in Sabi was exaggeration, which I can tell you was something I read in their tone.

I can see this being the case. With only two wolves to find ivmight be squinting too hard. But for 2 to be true why do they suspect porscha asap day w and say it is likely a hit and unvote me?

[EnderWiggin]

Because that question is starting to get into subjective territory.

[EnderWiggin]

how long have you two known one another for

5ish years. I've played a lot of mafia and social deduction games with Rondo IRL. I introduced him to forum mafia.

how'd you meet

sexually

how long have you two known one another for

5ish years. I've played a lot of mafia and social deduction games with Rondo IRL. I introduced him to forum mafia.

how'd you meet

IRL. You'll forgive me for generally not liking to share a lot of specifics online.

We didn't meet doing social deduction games/mafia, that was more something we stumbled into realising we both liked.

Sorry Ender Rondo outed u guys as lovers.

Never said we weren't.

[Porscha]

...

I blame achro

this is a joke achro plz don't get upset lol

tbf I think achro has shown plenty of patience and restraint (more than I would) so I don't think you need to worry about making a lil joke about them

Porscha have we played together before

uh I guess the only time would have been in the president's game lol. I was specifically referring to this game though

[EnderWiggin]

I hear that a lot. Here, I'll be gentle @NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME

Time to read day 1 Achro and why I felt good about Seanzie because I am reaching critical mass on town reads.

Ah, I thought they were fearless in going against people's wishes day 1 which I strongly read as v. I noted that they suggested Tommy get an avatar for whatever that's worth. Them thinking me saying "Seanzie didn't give a fuck" was a uncaring read and not a 'I think Seanzie is fearless' read I tend to lean town on as well from past experience. Possible all of these things are NAI for them though I am sure people will tell me.

Lol, Achromatic might be doing the thing, which means that if they flip wolf, I could probably give a game winning PoE just based off who doesn't know me well.

This does not have the vibe of someone who has a wolf partner doing absolutely nothing day one tbh. Feels in good spirits, confident.

Too bad.

Joking. I think he is treating me simiarly to how wolf!you treated town!Fext in Lost in Space or how wolf!me treated town!Gavial in Belzelbun the benign. In both cases, TMI along with someone who was posting extremely comfortably in thread that they weren't familiar with made it impossible for the wolf to even really try to imagine wolfcasing the townie.

Pretty complex line of suspicion on me for a wolf though. It's not clearing especially without me having any experience with them but it feels like they believe this genuinely to me.

The bolded is case in point for why you're annoying to deal with. You say things that aren't alignment indicative for anyone as though they are and let them guide you to irrational solves. You've just (as you point out) rarely had to contend with a rand where we are both town before. You are a recipient of good fortune and I am a victim of it.

Of course I understand the process. But you saying you're the best mac reader ever when you're the only one here that's wrong is asinine when I know you are going to reflect on this game later as another one you got me right in. Like I am pre eye-rolling at you for pointing this game out as another example of Seanzie's masterful mac read.

I'm not saying I am the best Mac reader ever, I'm saying I've been right on you pretty much every game we've played together.

Even right now though, I don't think you read my post close enough to see what my read of you currently is. What is my read of you, right now, Mac?

This also drips of pure town egotism.

Feels like a miss unless Seanzie's meta is very complicated and well disguised tbh.

@NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME I believe you. Can you begin to peak by taking a peak at my Dizzy thoughts and giving your impressions?

So anyway now we get to Dizzy's handling of me which I find intentional and problematic. I think one of the reasons why I pushed back hard against Mac saying I have an omgus problem is because as an egocentric player how I interact with others is important to me. So when Dizzy interacts with me in a way that raises my suspicion I don't think that's OMGUS, I think it's a valid concern not to be handwaved away.

Last bit of super relevant contribution I have is that I kind of want Achro to be mafia, and I've felt the same tingling in pretty much any game I've spectated and played with him. Some players just have that aura, I think. Have the same with Arete tbh. All this not to state a read on him, I just felt myself wanting to mafia lean on him for litterally no reason, and I'm not going to. But he could still be mafia =p

For someone self-aware of how they view me they sure did trip down into wolf reading me pretty quick lol. I find this funny more than anything.

Dyslexicon is in my SR's

But like why tho

You don't know me at all. As far as I know, I've never played with you. I had hardly began to even play this game, and you've mentioned a couple of times being suspicious of me. I know you said gut, but even that has to come from somewhere, or no? Genuinely curious

What does "and with a > rand mafia who do it" mean? I saw Mac post >rand mafia earlier. I'm afraid the use of ( <greater than / less than> ) symbols confuses me in this instance. I'm in a few keeper leagues and we use the <> in trade talks.

A decent portion of people who don't know anything about me and that are wolves tend to shade me, because apparently I have resting target face. But I find people who don't know me and are town also does this, so I probably shouldn't read more into it. Anyway, thanks for answering about why you were suspicious. I do find your reasoning quite absurd tbh, but I'm not one to talk because I'm sure people will find some of my reasoning for reads absurd at points too. In fact, most of what makes us read people as this or that is probably absurd, which is why mafia is a stupid game. But I like stupid.

Carry on carrying on. As for reading me, I would advice to listen to people who know me well. Or don't =p

I just wanted to note this but I feel as if a lot of wolves add small nervous ticks to their posts when interacting with people. This is what I call a 'stupid tell to go off of but its way above rand so here we are' In this case the "Genuinely curious" pinged the shit out of me. As did "or don't." To be clear, not analytical in the slightest and 100% pure ping.

Oh let's see here, did I miss the context of a conversation?

Ah, I did in fact miss the word 'else' in the first post and missed the TL on Mac. Not nearly as tall of a leap as I thought before, although the phrasing is still pretty strong.

So how sure are you folks of this Mac person's town and wolf ranges because geesh.

It also seems like you didn't really check back carefully to see if Porscha was in fact town reading Mac. But I might get ahead of myself, cause I don't even think it's that unlikely that Porscha is mafia here

So I feel as if this is a start of a trend I will highlight where I feel as if Dizzy is treating me very intentionally. Dizzy is saying I didn't check back carefully on Porscha and is implying this is a scum tell for me.

I dont know his range, but a question. Do you think he as town is likely to not check up on Porscha's read progression of him before casting suspicion? ;o. You pointing that out was a bit of a red flag for Mac for me since that was his only point of suspecting Porscha there whereas it was a secondary one for me.

I mean, I think that this particular point against Porscha was kind of weak to begin with. But yes, I do think Mac can jump on things or jump to conclusions. I don't really read him off of that though. I read him off of energy and whether I feel like what he's saying is just fake as fuck, which is what he feels like when he's mafia. It's a pretty noticeable difference to my memory. Egg on my face etc etc, but I think Mac believes what he says here basically.

When Mac is similarly sloppy, it's NAI, when Achromatic does it, it's suspicious. For someone who is pinged by me treating players doing similar things differently this is a strange take to have. No problem with the Mac part of this, but contrasting this with Dizzy's treatment of me feels like Dizzy was looking for a reason to scum read me rather than developing one naturally. @Dyslexicon do you have game experience with me that would lead you to believe I am more prone to sloppy case work as wolf? If so please cite the game.

Omg. How active am I supposed to be. I talked yesterday and kept up with chat. I just finished reading what I missed

I don't know any of your takes or if you have takes on the game or alignments. I know it's hard when everyone and everything is new, but anything you can give in terms of impressions of other players would be helpful at this point. It doesn't have to be in any specific way. Don't think, just speak is my advice

@MacDougall we briefly mentioned possible in thread coaching by Lucy earlier. This gave off the possible same vibes to me.

So, just so I understand correctly.

You think it is a better chance of a hit to vote the first time FM player who is, by account of someone who knows them, outside of both their normal town AND wolf metas and has openly displayed issues with the FM format day one versus someone who by all accounts went from having a null read on Mac to having a big town read on them without showing any of their work at all.

Why do you think Tommy has even above a random chance of being a wolf atm?

Do you think Tommy is exact rand here?

Also, early game you mentioned how you'd just chop me if I had low WIM. Does this not apply to Tommy, who is arguably the one giving the least this game?

Oh, sure.

So you are a well established player who if I put the screws to you in some form or fashion will have a relatively known range of reactions for everyone to judge you on and to attempt to divine your alignment. If you are slacking off and suddenly under a microscope that's probably going to yield information that can be read by people.

Tommy, on the other hand, is an unknown quantity and to my eye hasn't really done anything noteworthy one way or another. This is not ideal, however with their stated dislike of FM so far as well as their noted inexperience it doesn't make them very formidable wolves down the line in the 'people are right he is wolf' even if I think it is for dubious reasons. likewise, because he is inexperienced, there is a large chance he becomes polarized when he does get his teeth into the game and we can proceed more appropriately.

Trying to say Tommy is the best lynch today is like ordering your steak well done. Technically it is a thing you can do, but why?

So you wanting to put the microscope on me, so to say, would be a way to gain reactions and info out of me? Is that correct? In which case, don't count on it. Slacking is something I do from time to time, depending on time. I didn't think I would have the time to read D1 this game, but I took the time now.

Do you also not think that putting the microscope on Tommy can yield information? Also, I'm not sure why you necessarily expect him to become more clear later on, as he is for everyone but Lucy and unknown entity. And thus far he hasn't really shown any interest in contributing a whole lot or FM at all, as you allude to. Why do you expect this to change later on? I hope it does, but what if it doesn't.

Funny thing is that giving more time is something I could argue for Porscha, exactly because I do know her at least a little bit, and I've been able to find her as town in the few games I've played with her to my memory.

So I guess I just see this differently than you do.

I also don't eat meat.

I think I talked myself into

[VOTE: Tommy] aubergine

So I think the interesting thing about this is, to me, it feels really bussy. At this point we have an entire day to go and plenty of time to get information from both Porscha and Tommy but so soon after giving Tommy advice Dizzy is like "actually nah" and tosses the vote. Now, for town equity here maybe I gave Dizzy a new perspective on Porscha which is a fine thing except that today Dizzy was just right back on Porscha which doesn't exactly line up with a new perspective and wait and see approach. However maybe they are just impatient as town, which I could see.

Then day 2 rolls around and Dizzy beelines straight for me with the only possible speed bump of Porscha being a possible wolf.

So I guess the world view where Dizzy is town is easily findable despite me not liking several things. It's just Dizzy deciding I was a wolf and going on a great adventure to slay me before much had really happened, which I have seen plenty.

So I'd like people to comment on if the above posts are NAI or even pro town for Dizzy and if they think the way they treated me was scummy or just an average day for Dizzy.

To Dizzy, I'd like to hear your thoughts on the game state atm when you can. Especially Porscha and myself. Do you believe Porscha's wolf equity is strong? What about mine? What caused you to move on to Wilgy?

Probably better if I break different strings of thought into different posts as to not create a wall of death, which I think are prone to being glossed over.

First, let me discuss Dizzy and Sabi which pinged me immediately when Dizzy said this day 2:

Have I been evicted from ur pocket

I thought about you but didn’t write you down. To be honest I exaggerated my town read on you D1. But you’re very likely town still and we’re still friends

Bold and resizing are mine, I am a scrub who can't figure out color coding very well lol

So let's go over Dizzy's Sabi progression day one:

Man Sabi is such obvtown.

100 % this

I haven't really read the game, and I'm probably not going to for a while, so enjoy that.

I have Sabi and Mac as town. These are both vibes and what kind of energy they are bringing. Mac is more based in meta, which I do think I have at least a decent track record of picking up on. For Sabi, I just liked their start and their impatience, them talking about wanting to do better. So there are my friends now. Will see if that turns out good or not.

I've had a near 100% mac read since I joined TS, and I know for a fact that he is not a fan of wolfing against me. I had posted, multiple times at that point, and due to not necessarily wanting my attention as a wolf, I think he would be more likely to wager an early guess at my alignment there as town than as wolf.

Speaking just for me, I don't think you had posted anything AI at that point in the game.

Do you still scum read Mac? I have also been pretty successful in reading Mac historically. I may or may not be a bit too confident due to the fact that Mac have a had a couple of mafia games that were real bad, and I know he isn't really bad as mafia.

I was actually going to ask you about that, both Mac and Sabi. Cause I town read both. Am I bad? I could be bad.

I've been toying with the idea that you're bad, yeah.

Mac I felt pretty confident about off very little information, and no longer feel much of anything, but I trust my early gut reactions enough to not write the read off. Sabi I never actually scumread, I just pushed there because I thought Mac was scum and I think Sabi or Mac did something that made me question if they were partners, so I decided to push there just to see if Sabi would just obvout as a wolf with Mac. They didn't, so I am no longer pushing there, even though I am kind of personally irked by how they've acted about me pushing them and they keep saying I'm "confbiasing" when really I think they're accusing me of scumreading them because of personal out-of-game things (that don't exist from my side, but I get how sometimes other people see other things so meh... I get it even if I don't think it is there), not confbiasing, and instead of considering the fact that I might actually just be playing the game and trying to figure out why I might be pushing them, they've decided to just assume they know me and have said they will just ignore me.

You can't scum read me, I already have the Ender phseal of approval gg

I get what irked you about the situation. Beyond that, I feel like Sabi felt townie both in that interaction, but especially just early game. She feels curious about the game. I have also known her to react emotionally (as we all do sometimes, and is natural in a game of mafia) on other occasions.

I like Mac on vibe and I like Mac on direction

Can I ask who you think are mafia if Mac is not mafia?

Shocked and saddened Mac and dizzy didn't want to flirt with me

Let's just do it in our mason chat tbh

So some of the bold especially leap off to me as incredibly nuanced for someone who walks into day 2 claiming to Sabi 'I exaggerated.' Especially in the context of Ender and Vivas who Dizzy did not appear to spend nearly as much time openly defending their world view on (although they did post positively about both, which I covered last post). Like, there's nothing suspicious about just forgetting to put Sabi in one of your town reads - we all forget - but the 'coverup' here doesn't pass the smell test to me because I thought Dizzy day 1 was giving nuanced, good takes on why Sabi was a strong town read. Sure, maybe it isn't 100% and that's not a problem, but it really bugs me and it is why I am very confident that Dizzy/Sabi weren't aligned ;o

Reposting for the third time some extended seanzie and dizzy thoughts since I got a notification that there is a mix up on my issue with Dizzy.

Breaking down this post, I honestly think your issues come down to:

1. Nitpicking in how people type. Which I'll admit is a thing I can use too but is also part of how I misvoted Dizzy in our first game together.
2. Finding issue how they talked about Porscha, which is a scumread they obviously felt reticent about given how they backed off it after talking themselves into Tommy.
3. Your belief that the D1 read in Sabi was exaggeration, which I can tell you was something I read in their tone.

I can see this being the case. With only two wolves to find ivmight be squinting too hard. But for 2 to be true why do they suspect porscha asap day w and say it is likely a hit and unvote me?

I'd leave that for them to explain.

[Achromatic]

...

I blame achro

this is a joke achro plz don't get upset lol

tbf I think achro has shown plenty of patience and restraint (more than I would) so I don't think you need to worry about making a lil joke about them

Porscha have we played together before

uh I guess the only time would have been in the president's game lol. I was specifically referring to this game though

I asked because you have good insight into me to know that I am being restrained lol. That's like a really good soul read.

[RondoDimBuckle]

how long have you two known one another for

5ish years. I've played a lot of mafia and social deduction games with Rondo IRL. I introduced him to forum mafia.

how'd you meet

sexually

how long have you two known one another for

5ish years. I've played a lot of mafia and social deduction games with Rondo IRL. I introduced him to forum mafia.

how'd you meet

IRL. You'll forgive me for generally not liking to share a lot of specifics online.

We didn't meet doing social deduction games/mafia, that was more something we stumbled into realising we both liked.

Sorry Ender Rondo outed u guys as lovers.

Never said we weren't.

I am, its more of a carnal / primal thing. Love is for pussies

[Achromatic]

Fair enough. Perhaps this would have been cleared up awhile ago if dizzy didn't have a busy day.

[RondoDimBuckle]

@Achromatic you do know that Dizzy is ESL right?

[Porscha]

@Sabiplz you say your emotional reaction comes from a lack of confidence?

Earlier this day you said you were confident Seanzie is a hit. What changed?

I think she said it was cuz other ppl weren't seeing the wolf sean she saw and she values those opinions highly enough to think she's just wrong

When I'm pushing you as partners it's probably a good idea to let her speak for herself lol.

she always will but she is also predictable and I don't feel the need to avoid discussing her reactions

[robyn]

who is more logical between you? (ik rondo is more sporadic lol)

What is the point of this question line?

if you guys are opposite factions one will weight the others opinions differently, you ground rondo a lot from what I've seen so I'll say you are more logical

[Achromatic]

@Achromatic you do know that Dizzy is ESL right?

Yes. I use their exact word not to misquote them but I just thought it didn't add up from how they defended their sabi read day 1 to then not have sabi in their top tier of 'feeling good about these folks' day 2. It could be just coincidence that sabi was the one dizzy found herself in a position to talk about more than the others.

[EnderWiggin]

I don't think Seanzie has been townie today and he's fooled me before with play like he had on d1.

I have him as a very slight town lean and welcome discussion on him.

Seeing his last scum game and this one is mega tier yikes of wanting to touch that any time soon tbh. That was super polarizing.

It's not like lock stock and bury it but I don't see a reason to be suspicious outright atm.

That last game was more outlier than anything. Seanzie can be afk wolf but also can post and can provide content.

More recently I've seen more low effort wolf games but I would never count him out of being able to do minimal town!Seanzie posting.

[RondoDimBuckle]

who is more logical between you? (ik rondo is more sporadic lol)

What is the point of this question line?

if you guys are opposite factions one will weight the others opinions differently, you ground rondo a lot from what I've seen so I'll say you are more logical

[MacDougall]

I don't think Seanzie has been townie today and he's fooled me before with play like he had on d1.

I have him as a very slight town lean and welcome discussion on him.

Seeing his last scum game and this one is mega tier yikes of wanting to touch that any time soon tbh. That was super polarizing.

It's not like lock stock and bury it but I don't see a reason to be suspicious outright atm.

That last game was more outlier than anything. Seanzie can be afk wolf but also can post and can provide content.

More recently I've seen more low effort wolf games but I would never count him out of being able to do minimal town!Seanzie posting.

you're scumreading Seanzie right?

[EnderWiggin]

I don't think Seanzie has been townie today and he's fooled me before with play like he had on d1.

I have him as a very slight town lean and welcome discussion on him.

Seeing his last scum game and this one is mega tier yikes of wanting to touch that any time soon tbh. That was super polarizing.

It's not like lock stock and bury it but I don't see a reason to be suspicious outright atm.

That last game was more outlier than anything. Seanzie can be afk wolf but also can post and can provide content.

More recently I've seen more low effort wolf games but I would never count him out of being able to do minimal town!Seanzie posting.

you're scumreading Seanzie right?

Partially.

I'm trying to sort out my head as to which read I have is best to follow/chop.

[Porscha]

I have never seen someone as either alignment handle their situation as well as porscha is. It's insane. Not a drip of snark or sorrow. No negativity. Good humour. My gosh. We could all learn from Porscha.

i'm blushing uwu (unsure of what we are learning tho)

How to handle being suspected in a game of mafia with dignity and not hurting people's feelings?

No, I just signed in and had notifications, so I checked them.
And Porscha was mean to me, twice. I totally deserved it, and completely bought her tone, but Porscha -

I CAN COUNT, AND ADD.

So she's not the angel you claim, but I'm happy to stay on Wilgy and am leaning more null / townish on Porscha now.

you did quite literally miscount within single digits tbf lmfao

[EnderWiggin]

You're not the main character of this game Mac despite being very good I would advise not telling others to quit playing a game we all signed up for.

I'm trying to engage sabi and get answers from her. You are interjecting and disrupting the process and it is hindering my process. Can't you just observe for a time? What is the harm of asking you to stop?

Have you considered that me observing and not being in the mix hinders my process? My last request was for a scum game to view which effectively quiets me for awhile.

We all have processes is all I am saying.

I'd give you a scumgame to read if I had one to give you. But you calling my bluff there is just giving her an out.

She admitted she does it anyway. So my bluff worked. You don't need a link now. Because she confirmed it herself.

I flat out didn't even think it was a bluff lol x(

You fooled me. I was being sincere.

Does wolf Archo antagonise town leader this much? I am handing out a Lucy level tinfoil town read

I mean.

Achro undermining town leader's attempts to sort contention slots is actively something I could see wolf!Achro doing.

[Porscha]

[VOTE: Rondo] aubergine

fair, I guess

I have a mental picture of mac slapping your hand via vote

[Achromatic]

You're not the main character of this game Mac despite being very good I would advise not telling others to quit playing a game we all signed up for.

I'm trying to engage sabi and get answers from her. You are interjecting and disrupting the process and it is hindering my process. Can't you just observe for a time? What is the harm of asking you to stop?

Have you considered that me observing and not being in the mix hinders my process? My last request was for a scum game to view which effectively quiets me for awhile.

We all have processes is all I am saying.

I'd give you a scumgame to read if I had one to give you. But you calling my bluff there is just giving her an out.

She admitted she does it anyway. So my bluff worked. You don't need a link now. Because she confirmed it herself.

I flat out didn't even think it was a bluff lol x(

You fooled me. I was being sincere.

Does wolf Archo antagonise town leader this much? I am handing out a Lucy level tinfoil town read

I mean.

Achro undermining town leader's attempts to sort contention slots is actively something I could see wolf!Achro doing.

Source?

[MacDougall]

I don't think Seanzie has been townie today and he's fooled me before with play like he had on d1.

I have him as a very slight town lean and welcome discussion on him.

Seeing his last scum game and this one is mega tier yikes of wanting to touch that any time soon tbh. That was super polarizing.

It's not like lock stock and bury it but I don't see a reason to be suspicious outright atm.

That last game was more outlier than anything. Seanzie can be afk wolf but also can post and can provide content.

More recently I've seen more low effort wolf games but I would never count him out of being able to do minimal town!Seanzie posting.

you're scumreading Seanzie right?

Partially.

I'm trying to sort out my head as to which read I have is best to follow/chop.

who are you prime suspects?

[EnderWiggin]

Alright caught up.

I have several things in my head around people.

I actively don't want wagons on the following:
Lucy
Dizzy
Rondo
Axe
Nanook
Mac
Sabi

Yes, for all the above I don't think they have enough wolf equity for me to be interested.

Lemme group the rest into the vague gut feelings I have for where I'd place them:

Dr Wilgy
Porscha
Stupid Sexy Flanders
--- I don't think both wolves are above this line, but quite possibly one.

Achromatic
Seanzie
Vivax

[EnderWiggin]

I'm trying to engage sabi and get answers from her. You are interjecting and disrupting the process and it is hindering my process. Can't you just observe for a time? What is the harm of asking you to stop?

Have you considered that me observing and not being in the mix hinders my process? My last request was for a scum game to view which effectively quiets me for awhile.

We all have processes is all I am saying.

I'd give you a scumgame to read if I had one to give you. But you calling my bluff there is just giving her an out.

She admitted she does it anyway. So my bluff worked. You don't need a link now. Because she confirmed it herself.

I flat out didn't even think it was a bluff lol x(

You fooled me. I was being sincere.

Does wolf Archo antagonise town leader this much? I am handing out a Lucy level tinfoil town read

I mean.

Achro undermining town leader's attempts to sort contention slots is actively something I could see wolf!Achro doing.

Source?

My impression of the style of player you are.

[Achromatic]

What are some things you believe are out of this in theory wolf achro?

[EnderWiggin]

I do not think Achro as wolf would be passive, ever, so I think the content and sorting it would be the main ways to differentiate the two.

And I think "Undermine town leader solving" fits right in the wheelhouse of style I'd expect of someone who usually plays confident town leader on their own.

[Achromatic]

What are some things you believe are out of this in theory wolf achro?

Out of range*

[Achromatic]

I do not think Achro as wolf would be passive, ever, so I think the content and sorting it would be the main ways to differentiate the two.

And I think "Undermine town leader solving" fits right in the wheelhouse of style I'd expect of someone who usually plays confident town leader on their own.

Tbf from my perspective Mac is undermining my solve by not sheeping my read of porscha

(This is a joke)

[EnderWiggin]

What are some things you believe are out of this in theory wolf achro?

Out of range*

Idk.

Take it a mark of respect for the play I've seen from watching other games that I don't want to easily clear you for solving.

[Achromatic]

I will say I don't find that answer very reassuring but also it isn't wrong. But in the sense that I would be the worst wolf ever if I was passive as non passive as my town game is.

[EnderWiggin]

I'm going to get food and then start ISOing Vivax.

[Achromatic]

What are some things you believe are out of this in theory wolf achro?

Out of range*

Idk.

Take it a mark of respect for the play I've seen from watching other games that I don't want to easily clear you for solving.

I feel as if there are a few plays in this game that would be very downright stupid for a wolf achro to do but far be it for me to discuss my own wolf range.

[EnderWiggin]

I think Sabi's "Catch" on Seanzie is what really makes me think she's town. That had such a genuine gut "I caught them!" feel that I'd be surprised if it was faked.