The Syndicate

I also voted Made. He seems more suspicious than SVS to me

Made wrote: I'm going to flip civvie.

Nota bene: "I'm gong to flip civvie." not "I am civvie."

thellama73 wrote:

Made wrote: I'm going to flip civvie.

Nota bene: "I'm gong to flip civvie." not "I am civvie."

Made wrote:

Bullzeye wrote:

Metalmarsh89 wrote:
I don't think you understand. I DO agree that there is more than one baddie team. The problem is that I'm being unjustifiably ridiculed for saying so while the same people, including you, are on board with the idea. Can you explain that one?

Where are you being ridiculed? I haven't seen anything like that.

Made wrote: Just a questions about Seemers (which i am not one of). Would they have a role that doesn't exist in the game or any role of their choosing? Because if they have the latter, they'd also need to know every single role that's in this game, which sounds a bit overpowered.

Seemers tend to appear as a civ role rather than their own. Generally they get to choose, but you bring up a good point here. A seemer presumably wouldn't know any civ roles (aside from the ones revealed so far which includes some that are alive). There is the possibility they'd just show up as a random civ but I don't think there is any reason to believe a seemer exists in this game. Personally I tend to only be open to the possibility if we're told one exists and don't like people assuming any old lynched civ is a seemer unless there's very good reason to because I think it's a weak as hell way to justify killing a civ.

Actually...when you say it like this, a seemer even existing in a game where roles aren't revealed sounds incredibly over powered.

Llama, I could quote a few times where i've said that i am civvie specifically if you'd like.

Out of curiosity everyone, Who would be your number one person of suspect if I turn out to be civvie?

Made wrote:Out of curiosity everyone, Who would be your number one person of suspect if I turn out to be civvie?

SVS. She is also my number one suspect if you turn out bad.

OK Llama~

Has Boogs been silenced, you think?

S~V~S wrote:OK Llama~

Has Boogs been silenced, you think?

I doubt it? Silencing him doesn't seems to push any agenda forward, and Llama (assuming he was actually silenced in the beginning of this game) was both unable to vote and unable to talk.

S~V~S wrote:OK Llama~

Has Boogs been silenced, you think?

I don't know.I am not paying attention to him. But yes, I was unable to vote, so that seems unlikely.

thellama73 wrote:

S~V~S wrote:OK Llama~

Has Boogs been silenced, you think?

I don't know.I am not paying attention to him. But yes, I was unable to vote, so that seems unlikely.

Now that is interesting. Ketterman never explicitly said he was cursed/vote forced, but you just did?

Made wrote:Out of curiosity everyone, Who would be your number one person of suspect if I turn out to be civvie?

Enrique was before he died. Tbh, I don't have another one right now, which is why I'm not discussing you right now and observing more than anything else. I voted you and am expecting you to die today, and so am focusing my attention away.

Metalmarsh89 wrote:

Made wrote:Out of curiosity everyone, Who would be your number one person of suspect if I turn out to be civvie?

Enrique was before he died. Tbh, I don't have another one right now, which is why I'm not discussing you right now and observing more than anything else. I voted you and am expecting you to die today, and so am focusing my attention away.

Fair enough, but before I died( inb4 lynch switch) you should say in thread who you'd suspect when i'm dead. think on it!

Made wrote:

Metalmarsh89 wrote:

Made wrote:Out of curiosity everyone, Who would be your number one person of suspect if I turn out to be civvie?

Enrique was before he died. Tbh, I don't have another one right now, which is why I'm not discussing you right now and observing more than anything else. I voted you and am expecting you to die today, and so am focusing my attention away.

Fair enough, but before I died( inb4 lynch switch) you should say in thread who you'd suspect when i'm dead. think on it!

You will hear from me about it before the day is over.

As usual, this thread exploded while I was gone. Geez. And really, not in the direction I thought it was going. While Made was the top candidate last time for lynching, I didn't expect to see 9 votes piled on him over 24 hours before the deadline.

I read the thread last night before I went away from my computer for a while, and it seemed like there was suspicion on SVS from several people for the whole "Made's a seemer" deal and things that I won't rehash because, well, even I posted something about that. Then, I read the the thread today since last night, and the conversation turns back to Made, from (what it seems to me) some rather clever steering by SVS. People call her out for not voting Made when she's suspicious of him because she claims it will be useless if he's a seemer (which, if that theory is still going around, I still don't buy it in a game with no public roles). Someone else (I'm sorry I'm not being specific; I can go back and add specificity if that's your bag) said that she could then use that leverage to save her reputation regardless - if he flipped Civ, she could claim he's a "seemer." So she turns the conversation towards lynching Made, and votes two days early. It works beautifully, getting hte attention off of her - several other people follow, more than what Made even had the day he did win the most votes, but didn't end up getting lynched. Easy lynch, right? TWO DAYS EARLY.

Yes, I voted Made last time. I even voted him the time before. It was mostly because the "lynch-switch" (or whatever happened, as we apparently haven't determined what it was yet) was fishy for the last one. For what it's worth, Made's behavior is pretty typically Made. He's nuts. So I won't voting him on account of his behavior, because it's not "weird" in the sense that it's different from usual, and I've only seen a Civ Made. But SVS? I mentioned this I believe Day 1, but she's acting fishy this game (early votes, reactionary posts not typical of what I've seen of her as a Civ, etc.), and so are a lot of people in the thread voting Made this early. But especially SVS.

Call me a hypocrite or wishy-washy this round, think what you want, but I'm gonna steer away from this lynch crowd and go with what my gut and my brain tells me. It looks to me like a few baddies taking advantage of the behavior, and some misguided Civs getting an easy vote, which all can justify later as "oops, well he looked bad." I have a nut and an apparently insanified nut going in the same direction, but I guess I'll be a nut with them. I hope I'm making sense, but totally won't be surprised if I'm not. I'll keep checking the thread as I can and see how things play out.

FYI I likely won't be on to do this checking until tomorrow afternoon, as I'm going out of town to celebrate a friend's bday. Yay celebration, boo driving!

Made wrote:Honestly I'm just waiting for support to come for me out of no where.

That's quite an odd thing to say.

Made wrote:It makes sense in retrospect tho. The logic she's been following all game was a ruse to trick me into trusting her. I guess what i've learned from this game is to trust facts before people and motives before facts :/

I don't really see any ruse anywhere. The only thing is the seemer thing (which I don't agree with) but other than that, SVS seems like she's really trying to figure out who's bad and who's not.

juliets wrote: And Dana, hahahaha, I hope you go to a football school!

I honestly have no idea. I biked around campus earlier and there were big groups of people in the fields but I wasn't interested enough to go and see what was up. Is it like championships or something today?

Made wrote:Out of curiosity everyone, Who would be your number one person of suspect if I turn out to be civvie?

Llama, definitely. I think I may go back and make a case on him soon, but I've felt a bit off about him all game.

Bea, is Sawyer someone in this game? Also I'm glad you're feeling better!

Linki-

nijuukyugou wrote:It looks to me like a few baddies taking advantage of the behavior, and some misguided Civs getting an easy vote, which all can justify later as "oops, well he looked bad."

I agree with this completely.

Dead, Just Dead. Hello friend!


linki- And dana too....Hello Dana!

fingersplints wrote:

juliets wrote:where is everyone today? You can post and watch college football!

I'm unbelievably busy today. I hate party preparations.
I am checking the thread regularly but probably won't post much unless someone asks me something specifically. Like I said I don't see much of a way to move on until we get to the bottom of SVS vs Made. it's consuming the whole thread lol

Rey seems quiet to me, as does Lorab. Not saying it means anything just seem quieter than I remember.

I'm quieter than I used to be, tbh. This is also my first game back in a few months. And I replaced in. And I've already said I find Made suspish. That hasn't changed. Haven't had anything to add that hasn't been said.

juliets wrote: And Dana, hahahaha, I hope you go to a football school!

Dana wrote:I honestly have no idea. I biked around campus earlier and there were big groups of people in the fields but I wasn't interested enough to go and see what was up. Is it like championships or something today?

Dana i forgot you live in the northeast. Football really isn't as big a deal up there so I can understand how you've gone all this time not knowing really what football is. Never mind my comment, you'll find out soon enough if you go to one of the big northern football schools!Oh, and it's only the second game of the college season, first game weekend for the pro's. Championships will be in Jan. - Feb.

Dana wrote:Bea, is Sawyer someone in this game? Also I'm glad you're feeling better!

Yes, Sawyer is reywas. It is sawyer spelled backwards. He used to be sawyer so some of us still call him that every once in a while.

Dana wrote:

Made wrote:Honestly I'm just waiting for support to come for me out of no where.

That's quite an odd thing to say.

Made wrote:It makes sense in retrospect tho. The logic she's been following all game was a ruse to trick me into trusting her. I guess what i've learned from this game is to trust facts before people and motives before facts :/

I don't really see any ruse anywhere. The only thing is the seemer thing (which I don't agree with) but other than that, SVS seems like she's really trying to figure out who's bad and who's not.

juliets wrote: And Dana, hahahaha, I hope you go to a football school!

I honestly have no idea. I biked around campus earlier and there were big groups of people in the fields but I wasn't interested enough to go and see what was up. Is it like championships or something today?

Made wrote:Out of curiosity everyone, Who would be your number one person of suspect if I turn out to be civvie?

Llama, definitely. I think I may go back and make a case on him soon, but I've felt a bit off about him all game.

Bea, is Sawyer someone in this game? Also I'm glad you're feeling better!

Linki-

nijuukyugou wrote:It looks to me like a few baddies taking advantage of the behavior, and some misguided Civs getting an easy vote, which all can justify later as "oops, well he looked bad."

I agree with this completely.

oops - sorry - reywas = sawyer. He used to be sawyer then went all backwards with his user name. I always have to think harder to type reywas than sawyer so - yea. sorry I wasn't more clear.

juilets wrote: Dana i forgot you live in the northeast. Football really isn't as big a deal up there so I can understand how you've gone all this time not knowing really what football is. Never mind my comment, you'll find out soon enough if you go to one of the big northern football schools!Oh, and it's only the second game of the college season, first game weekend for the pro's. Championships will be in Jan. - Feb.

That makes sense. I know they have the big giant football game in February, but I don't think that's colleges. Though I guess that means this is just the start.

juilets wrote:

Dana wrote:Bea, is Sawyer someone in this game? Also I'm glad you're feeling better!

Yes, Sawyer is reywas. It is sawyer spelled backwards. He used to be sawyer so some of us still call him that every once in a while.

bea wrote:oops - sorry - reywas = sawyer. He used to be sawyer then went all backwards with his user name. I always have to think harder to type reywas than sawyer so - yea. sorry I wasn't more clear.

How did I not put that together... Haha, my bad, I totally should have been able to figure that one out!

Made: why would SVS work so hard to get you, specifically, to trust her?

Anywho, I'm kind of in the same mindset as bwt on this one: I defended Made for a while b/c I thought his zany style seemed like crazy civ Made from misfits, and I legit thought a lovers scenario was a possibility...but Made denying that, and the inability of the thread to look at/talk about anything without it always coming back to Made means I'm willing to go along with the GroupThink here and vote for him. I do legitimately believe he's a civ, but I have no way of being certain, no way of proving that to anyone, and honestly very little chance of changing anyone's mind. And I'm not so proud that I'm unwilling to defer to people who feel much more strongly that he's bad than I do thy he's good. So I'll vote Made.

Linki: whooooaaa. I left this response sitting I posted for many hours. Posting anyway, reading linki later

Dana wrote:

juilets wrote:

Dana wrote:Bea, is Sawyer someone in this game? Also I'm glad you're feeling better!

Yes, Sawyer is reywas. It is sawyer spelled backwards. He used to be sawyer so some of us still call him that every once in a while.

bea wrote:oops - sorry - reywas = sawyer. He used to be sawyer then went all backwards with his user name. I always have to think harder to type reywas than sawyer so - yea. sorry I wasn't more clear.

How did I not put that together... Haha, my bad, I totally should have been able to figure that one out!

To be honest, i figured the capitol S at of the end of his name was just stylization

linki- I have a feeling things about to get very interesting....

Canucklehead wrote:Made: why would SVS work so hard to get you, specifically, to trust her?

Anywho, I'm kind of in the same mindset as bwt on this one: I defended Made for a while b/c I thought his zany style seemed like crazy civ Made from misfits, and I legit thought a lovers scenario was a possibility...but Made denying that, and the inability of the thread to look at/talk about anything without it always coming back to Made means I'm willing to go along with the GroupThink here and vote for him. I do legitimately believe he's a civ, but I have no way of being certain, no way of proving that to anyone, and honestly very little chance of changing anyone's mind. And I'm not so proud that I'm unwilling to defer to people who feel much more strongly that he's bad than I do thy he's good. So I'll vote Made.

Linki: whooooaaa. I left this response sitting I posted for many hours. Posting anyway, reading linki later

So you were down to lynch someone who you think is town just because everyone else is voting for him? And you wrote this post before he had as many votes as he does now? You're scum.

Keterman wrote:

Canucklehead wrote:Made: why would SVS work so hard to get you, specifically, to trust her?

Anywho, I'm kind of in the same mindset as bwt on this one: I defended Made for a while b/c I thought his zany style seemed like crazy civ Made from misfits, and I legit thought a lovers scenario was a possibility...but Made denying that, and the inability of the thread to look at/talk about anything without it always coming back to Made means I'm willing to go along with the GroupThink here and vote for him. I do legitimately believe he's a civ, but I have no way of being certain, no way of proving that to anyone, and honestly very little chance of changing anyone's mind. And I'm not so proud that I'm unwilling to defer to people who feel much more strongly that he's bad than I do thy he's good. So I'll vote Made.

Linki: whooooaaa. I left this response sitting I posted for many hours. Posting anyway, reading linki later

So you were down to lynch someone who you think is town just because everyone else is voting for him? And you wrote this post before he had as many votes as he does now? You're scum.

And you're not cursed.

LoRab wrote:

fingersplints wrote:

juliets wrote:where is everyone today? You can post and watch college football!

I'm unbelievably busy today. I hate party preparations.
I am checking the thread regularly but probably won't post much unless someone asks me something specifically. Like I said I don't see much of a way to move on until we get to the bottom of SVS vs Made. it's consuming the whole thread lol

Rey seems quiet to me, as does Lorab. Not saying it means anything just seem quieter than I remember.

I'm quieter than I used to be, tbh. This is also my first game back in a few months. And I replaced in. And I've already said I find Made suspish. That hasn't changed. Haven't had anything to add that hasn't been said.

Cool. I understand that. I try and play a bit more reserved then I used to. I haven't played all that much lately either so I figured I'd at least note it in case it was a bit weird specifically for this game. I haven't found anything in your posts to be very suspicious for what it's worth, but you were always one to watch!

Also, Canucklehead compares herself to bwt with her position. Yet their positions are clearly completely different. bwt said that he thinks that both SVS and Made are bad, and that it is only a matter of which one of them is more likely to be bad. Canucklehead thinks that Made is town and didn't even mention the possibility that SVS is bad in her post, only referencing her to ask Made a question. I am now willing to lynch Canuck.

linki - When did I say I was cursed? My keyboard was having problems. I would type a sentence and I would have to wait 30+ seconds to find out if it would render in the reply-machine-whatchamacallit. I got sick of how time consuming that was so I just started posting whatever ended up showing up. Now I've found a solution for it so it's all good.

Keterman wrote:Also, Canucklehead compares herself to bwt with her position. Yet their positions are clearly completely different. bwt said that he thinks that both SVS and Made are bad, and that it is only a matter of which one of them is more likely to be bad. Canucklehead thinks that Made is town and didn't even mention the possibility that SVS is bad in her post, only referencing her to ask Made a question. I am now willing to lynch Canuck.

linki - When did I say I was cursed? My keyboard was having problems. I would type a sentence and I would have to wait 30+ seconds to find out if it would render in the reply-machine-whatchamacallit. I got sick of how time consuming that was so I just started posting whatever ended up showing up. Now I've found a solution for it so it's all good.

I assumed that your text was scrambled and it was a force vote. As for Canuck, I'm honestly not sure at all. Defending me would give her a ton of civvie cred upon my death.

Made wrote:

Keterman wrote:Also, Canucklehead compares herself to bwt with her position. Yet their positions are clearly completely different. bwt said that he thinks that both SVS and Made are bad, and that it is only a matter of which one of them is more likely to be bad. Canucklehead thinks that Made is town and didn't even mention the possibility that SVS is bad in her post, only referencing her to ask Made a question. I am now willing to lynch Canuck.

linki - When did I say I was cursed? My keyboard was having problems. I would type a sentence and I would have to wait 30+ seconds to find out if it would render in the reply-machine-whatchamacallit. I got sick of how time consuming that was so I just started posting whatever ended up showing up. Now I've found a solution for it so it's all good.

I assumed that your text was scrambled and it was a force vote. As for Canuck, I'm honestly not sure at all. Defending me would give her a ton of civvie cred upon my death.

That's not the point. She defended you...yet voted for you. She thinks (or more likely knows) that you're town...yet is contributing to your lynch. What town motivation could there possibly be for succumbing to a mislynch? There's no way around it, she has to be scum.

fingersplints wrote:

LoRab wrote:

fingersplints wrote:

juliets wrote:where is everyone today? You can post and watch college football!

I'm unbelievably busy today. I hate party preparations.
I am checking the thread regularly but probably won't post much unless someone asks me something specifically. Like I said I don't see much of a way to move on until we get to the bottom of SVS vs Made. it's consuming the whole thread lol

Rey seems quiet to me, as does Lorab. Not saying it means anything just seem quieter than I remember.

I'm quieter than I used to be, tbh. This is also my first game back in a few months. And I replaced in. And I've already said I find Made suspish. That hasn't changed. Haven't had anything to add that hasn't been said.

Cool. I understand that. I try and play a bit more reserved then I used to. I haven't played all that much lately either so I figured I'd at least note it in case it was a bit weird specifically for this game. I haven't found anything in your posts to be very suspicious for what it's worth, but you were always one to watch!

I'll even twirl for you, as long as your watching me.

Keterman wrote:

Made wrote:

Keterman wrote:Also, Canucklehead compares herself to bwt with her position. Yet their positions are clearly completely different. bwt said that he thinks that both SVS and Made are bad, and that it is only a matter of which one of them is more likely to be bad. Canucklehead thinks that Made is town and didn't even mention the possibility that SVS is bad in her post, only referencing her to ask Made a question. I am now willing to lynch Canuck.

linki - When did I say I was cursed? My keyboard was having problems. I would type a sentence and I would have to wait 30+ seconds to find out if it would render in the reply-machine-whatchamacallit. I got sick of how time consuming that was so I just started posting whatever ended up showing up. Now I've found a solution for it so it's all good.

I assumed that your text was scrambled and it was a force vote. As for Canuck, I'm honestly not sure at all. Defending me would give her a ton of civvie cred upon my death.

That's not the point. She defended you...yet voted for you. She thinks (or more likely knows) that you're town...yet is contributing to your lynch. What town motivation could there possibly be for succumbing to a mislynch? There's no way around it, she has to be scum.

Damning....voting Canuck. Her argument seems to be that while i'm alive, nothing constructive could possibly happen and that it's hopeless to try to convince others of my innocents. Canuck, would you of voted me if SVS didn't?

And for the record, Ketterman, at this point i trust you less than i trust SVS, but this argument is strong.

There's one t in my name, not two. And for the record I do think it's likely that you are scum, but I'm more positive on my read on Canucklehead and more still on my read on SVS.

Keterman wrote:There's one t in my name, not two. And for the record I do think it's likely that you are scum, but I'm more positive on my read on Canucklehead and more still on my read on SVS.

Well while you're here, what was your opinion of my argument against MR?

Made wrote:

Keterman wrote:There's one t in my name, not two. And for the record I do think it's likely that you are scum, but I'm more positive on my read on Canucklehead and more still on my read on SVS.

Well while you're here, what was your opinion of my argument against MR?

And apologies for the double t

Keterman wrote:There's one t in my name, not two. And for the record I do think it's likely that you are scum, but I'm more positive on my read on Canucklehead and more still on my read on SVS.

Not insanified anymore?

And why exactly? I have explained myself a jillion times, yet it seems people all suspect me for opposing reasons. For suspecting Made, for not suspecting made, for backing off of Made, for not pursing Made hard enough. Lots of people have done that re Made.

Why just me? Good question.

I honestly thought you had info. After your "positiveness" in Fight Club, you need to throttle back a bit on the assuredness. You were positive LC was "confirmed civ" and he was bad, and that llama was bad and (at that point) he was one of the top civvie roles. We don't play the same as at MafiaScum, we have different tells. Next time you have a forced vote, wait till closer to the end of the lynch, and just make one post. That way no one believes you are onto anything.

S~V~S wrote:

Keterman wrote:There's one t in my name, not two. And for the record I do think it's likely that you are scum, but I'm more positive on my read on Canucklehead and more still on my read on SVS.

Not insanified anymore?

And why exactly? I have explained myself a jillion times, yet it seems people all suspect me for opposing reasons. For suspecting Made, for not suspecting made, for backing off of Made, for not pursing Made hard enough. Lots of people have done that re Made.

Why just me? Good question.

I honestly thought you had info. After your "positiveness" in Fight Club, you need to throttle back a bit on the assuredness. You were positive LC was "confirmed civ" and he was bad, and that llama was bad and (at that point) he was one of the top civvie roles. We don't play the same as at MafiaScum, we have different tells. Next time you have a forced vote, wait till closer to the end of the lynch, and just make one post. That way no one believes you are onto anything.

As a point to both sides, He was positive in Misfits as mafia, but he was right.

S~V~S wrote:
There are the persons I am on record as saying I thought they defended Made fairly aggressively:

Enrique
LC

I did?

Keterman, I'm not voting Made "because everyone else is". That's a pretty reductive and manipulative reading of my explanation.

This is the part of bwt I was saying I agreed with. Sorry I didn't quote it.

birdwithteeth11 wrote:

Bullzeye wrote: I said that on Monday, it's now Saturday. A lot can happen in the space of a week. The seemer thing has made me distrust you because as I've said a few times I'm always wary of people who fall back on seemer accusations after civ lynches so the fact you're doing it before he's even been lynched is just grabbing my attention like crazy. It's not that I don't take you seriously, it's just that I find some of the things you're pushing to be a bit shifty. Not only the seemer thing but also the "let's lynch the people around Made before we lynch him" which you must admit can be taken to look as if you're his teammate trying to buy him some time. I did trust you at first but I always want to trust you. Now I trust you less. If we finally lynch Made today (who I'll probably vote for unless something crazy happens) then the outcome of that will affect how I see you. At this point I'd probably still vote MM over you just because of my gut telling me he's bad. Maybe JC too though I'm beginning to turn away from her I think.

Sorry to chop off the rest of the quote, but the bolded part is pretty much the conclusion I have come to. How I view SVS really comes down to what Made is. And while I like it or not, I don't see any other way to get past this mental roadblock until we deal with Made.

So that being said, I'm sorry Made, but given your case on MR which I didn't believe, the general confusion you've caused (either intentionally or unintentionally), this thread needs to move on. And it cannot be with you. I've waffled on you many times in this game, so here's to hoping that my bad read of you is correct.

Votes Made

I agree w/ bwt and Bullz that we're not moving on to anything else until made is gone. Yes, I think Made is civ (I'm not sure, I don't have your preternatural ability to feel sure about things, Keterman), but I think so. But I've been expressing that opinion for days. No one else thinks so. Therefore, I'm willing to consider that I'm wrong. If it would make you feel better about me, I could ineffectually vote for Mongoose again, because that empty gesture would totally avoid the inevitable lynch of Made today. I think we need to move on. A townie might die. I hope that's not the case, but I've done what I could to sway popular opinion away from that and have been unsuccessful. The civiness of Made is not a hill I'm prepared to die on, so yeah. I'm going to concede this one, vote with the majority, and take my share of the blame if he turns up civ.

Your playstyle is to trust yourself more than you trust anyone else and stick to your guns no matter what. That is not my playstyle....and that's OK.

Canucklehead wrote:Keterman, I'm not voting Made "because everyone else is". That's a pretty reductive and manipulative reading of my explanation.

This is the part of bwt I was saying I agreed with. Sorry I didn't quote it.

birdwithteeth11 wrote:

Bullzeye wrote: I said that on Monday, it's now Saturday. A lot can happen in the space of a week. The seemer thing has made me distrust you because as I've said a few times I'm always wary of people who fall back on seemer accusations after civ lynches so the fact you're doing it before he's even been lynched is just grabbing my attention like crazy. It's not that I don't take you seriously, it's just that I find some of the things you're pushing to be a bit shifty. Not only the seemer thing but also the "let's lynch the people around Made before we lynch him" which you must admit can be taken to look as if you're his teammate trying to buy him some time. I did trust you at first but I always want to trust you. Now I trust you less. If we finally lynch Made today (who I'll probably vote for unless something crazy happens) then the outcome of that will affect how I see you. At this point I'd probably still vote MM over you just because of my gut telling me he's bad. Maybe JC too though I'm beginning to turn away from her I think.

Sorry to chop off the rest of the quote, but the bolded part is pretty much the conclusion I have come to. How I view SVS really comes down to what Made is. And while I like it or not, I don't see any other way to get past this mental roadblock until we deal with Made.

So that being said, I'm sorry Made, but given your case on MR which I didn't believe, the general confusion you've caused (either intentionally or unintentionally), this thread needs to move on. And it cannot be with you. I've waffled on you many times in this game, so here's to hoping that my bad read of you is correct.

Votes Made

I agree w/ bwt and Bullz that we're not moving on to anything else until made is gone. Yes, I think Made is civ (I'm not sure, I don't have your preternatural ability to feel sure about things, Keterman), but I think so. But I've been expressing that opinion for days. No one else thinks so. Therefore, I'm willing to consider that I'm wrong. If it would make you feel better about me, I could ineffectually vote for Mongoose again, because that empty gesture would totally avoid the inevitable lynch of Made today. I think we need to move on. A townie might die. I hope that's not the case, but I've done what I could to sway popular opinion away from that and have been unsuccessful. The civiness of Made is not a hill I'm prepared to die on, so yeah. I'm going to concede this one, vote with the majority, and take my share of the blame if he turns up civ.

Your playstyle is to trust yourself more than you trust anyone else and stick to your guns no matter what. That is not my playstyle....and that's OK.

In what scenario would you die if you voted to save me, but I still died and flipped civvie?

Made wrote:

Canucklehead wrote:Keterman, I'm not voting Made "because everyone else is". That's a pretty reductive and manipulative reading of my explanation.

This is the part of bwt I was saying I agreed with. Sorry I didn't quote it.

birdwithteeth11 wrote:

Bullzeye wrote: I said that on Monday, it's now Saturday. A lot can happen in the space of a week. The seemer thing has made me distrust you because as I've said a few times I'm always wary of people who fall back on seemer accusations after civ lynches so the fact you're doing it before he's even been lynched is just grabbing my attention like crazy. It's not that I don't take you seriously, it's just that I find some of the things you're pushing to be a bit shifty. Not only the seemer thing but also the "let's lynch the people around Made before we lynch him" which you must admit can be taken to look as if you're his teammate trying to buy him some time. I did trust you at first but I always want to trust you. Now I trust you less. If we finally lynch Made today (who I'll probably vote for unless something crazy happens) then the outcome of that will affect how I see you. At this point I'd probably still vote MM over you just because of my gut telling me he's bad. Maybe JC too though I'm beginning to turn away from her I think.

Sorry to chop off the rest of the quote, but the bolded part is pretty much the conclusion I have come to. How I view SVS really comes down to what Made is. And while I like it or not, I don't see any other way to get past this mental roadblock until we deal with Made.

So that being said, I'm sorry Made, but given your case on MR which I didn't believe, the general confusion you've caused (either intentionally or unintentionally), this thread needs to move on. And it cannot be with you. I've waffled on you many times in this game, so here's to hoping that my bad read of you is correct.

Votes Made

I agree w/ bwt and Bullz that we're not moving on to anything else until made is gone. Yes, I think Made is civ (I'm not sure, I don't have your preternatural ability to feel sure about things, Keterman), but I think so. But I've been expressing that opinion for days. No one else thinks so. Therefore, I'm willing to consider that I'm wrong. If it would make you feel better about me, I could ineffectually vote for Mongoose again, because that empty gesture would totally avoid the inevitable lynch of Made today. I think we need to move on. A townie might die. I hope that's not the case, but I've done what I could to sway popular opinion away from that and have been unsuccessful. The civiness of Made is not a hill I'm prepared to die on, so yeah. I'm going to concede this one, vote with the majority, and take my share of the blame if he turns up civ.

Your playstyle is to trust yourself more than you trust anyone else and stick to your guns no matter what. That is not my playstyle....and that's OK.

In what scenario would you die if you voted to save me, but I still died and flipped civvie?

Huh? "Not a hill I want to die on" is a figure of speech. I didn't literally mean I thought I would die.

I meant to imply that I am not so sure of you being a civ that I'm willing to continue standing up for you to my own detriment (i.e. garnering increased suspicion on me).

Canucklehead wrote:

Made wrote:

Canucklehead wrote:Keterman, I'm not voting Made "because everyone else is". That's a pretty reductive and manipulative reading of my explanation.

This is the part of bwt I was saying I agreed with. Sorry I didn't quote it.

birdwithteeth11 wrote:

Bullzeye wrote: I said that on Monday, it's now Saturday. A lot can happen in the space of a week. The seemer thing has made me distrust you because as I've said a few times I'm always wary of people who fall back on seemer accusations after civ lynches so the fact you're doing it before he's even been lynched is just grabbing my attention like crazy. It's not that I don't take you seriously, it's just that I find some of the things you're pushing to be a bit shifty. Not only the seemer thing but also the "let's lynch the people around Made before we lynch him" which you must admit can be taken to look as if you're his teammate trying to buy him some time. I did trust you at first but I always want to trust you. Now I trust you less. If we finally lynch Made today (who I'll probably vote for unless something crazy happens) then the outcome of that will affect how I see you. At this point I'd probably still vote MM over you just because of my gut telling me he's bad. Maybe JC too though I'm beginning to turn away from her I think.

Sorry to chop off the rest of the quote, but the bolded part is pretty much the conclusion I have come to. How I view SVS really comes down to what Made is. And while I like it or not, I don't see any other way to get past this mental roadblock until we deal with Made.

So that being said, I'm sorry Made, but given your case on MR which I didn't believe, the general confusion you've caused (either intentionally or unintentionally), this thread needs to move on. And it cannot be with you. I've waffled on you many times in this game, so here's to hoping that my bad read of you is correct.

Votes Made

I agree w/ bwt and Bullz that we're not moving on to anything else until made is gone. Yes, I think Made is civ (I'm not sure, I don't have your preternatural ability to feel sure about things, Keterman), but I think so. But I've been expressing that opinion for days. No one else thinks so. Therefore, I'm willing to consider that I'm wrong. If it would make you feel better about me, I could ineffectually vote for Mongoose again, because that empty gesture would totally avoid the inevitable lynch of Made today. I think we need to move on. A townie might die. I hope that's not the case, but I've done what I could to sway popular opinion away from that and have been unsuccessful. The civiness of Made is not a hill I'm prepared to die on, so yeah. I'm going to concede this one, vote with the majority, and take my share of the blame if he turns up civ.

Your playstyle is to trust yourself more than you trust anyone else and stick to your guns no matter what. That is not my playstyle....and that's OK.

In what scenario would you die if you voted to save me, but I still died and flipped civvie?

Huh? "Not a hill I want to die on" is a figure of speech. I didn't literally mean I thought I would die.

I meant to imply that I am not so sure of you being a civ that I'm willing to continue standing up for you to my own detriment (i.e. garnering increased suspicion on me).

Alright. If I'm lynched today, and I do flip civvie, who do you most suspect for Mafia?

I understand that Made has to be lynched, but if there were wagers on the outcome, I would put a small bet on him being the Civvie role that A Person's lynch alludes to. A small bet, as in I'm not super confident, but I still kind of think it.

Too much reasonable doubt though.

Working most of tomorrow, so afraid I'll forget to vote if I don't vote now. Voting Made.

Long Con wrote:I understand that Made has to be lynched, but if there were wagers on the outcome, I would put a small bet on him being the Civvie role that A Person's lynch alludes to. A small bet, as in I'm not super confident, but I still kind of think it.

Too much reasonable doubt though.

Ok this argument is the type of argument any mafia can get behind. It's hedging your bet. If I flip mafia, then they voted me so they're happy they voted me, but when i flip civvie, they're safe from criticism as they believed I was civvie the entire time.

If you think that I am less suspicious than someone else, then pursue that person and vote for them. Don't just vote to kill a civvie. It shouldn't matter if I come up in discussion. In any other game, If you thought someone was suspicious, but another person thinks someone else is suspicious, you don't agree to have them lynched to prove them wrong??? If other's are misguided, push forward your theory instead. A civvies most powerful tool is their vote, and if Mafia can take that from them, then civvies lose all power and mafia wins.


Mafia isn't going to start cooperating and listening to town because i'm dead.

There are easily enough doubter to keep me alive, but even if you don't see me as innocent enough to vote to save me, vote who you think is guilty.

MM, Canuck, BWT, LC, and Bullz: Either admit I am mafia and vote for me, or vote who you think mafia is.

(Also i still need Who people think is suspicious if(when) I flip civvie. I only have them from llama(SVS) and Dana(Llama), and I already directly asked MM and Canuck.)

Made wrote:Either admit I am mafia

Just saying.

LoRab wrote:

Made wrote:Either admit I am mafia

Just saying.

It's cool. I'm Made, so I'm allowed to say stuff like that. Also, nice to finally meet you. I love your emotion!

Made wrote: MM, Canuck, BWT, LC, and Bullz: Either admit I am mafia and vote for me, or vote who you think mafia is.

You realise I already voted for you right? As of the last lynch I think the arguments for you being bad outweigh the arguments for you being good.

Made: I'm not voting for you so that I can hedge my bets and pull the "See, I told you he was civ!" card that you're accusing LC of doing. I'm voting for you b/c I haven't convinced anyone that you're civ (possibly not even myself since I've really been on the fence with you all game). All the reasons I think you are civ (the lovers, being the main one) have been refuted by others and even by YOU...so there isn't really a lot of evidence to put in the Civvie Made binder other than a lingering gut feeling. So I'm left with a choice of going with my gut and continuing to vote against the herd with no possibility of making a difference to the vote's outcome and inevitably getting shit for that vote tomorrow ("Canuck is Made's teammate!!!" if you turn up bad, or "Canuck knew Made was civ even though he was acting super baddie so she must be baddie!!" if you turn up good), or voting WITH the herd and getting shit tomorrow, though perhaps slightly less ("Canuck is flip-floppy and followed groupthink instead of her gut"). SVS was already getting ready to turn to Made supporters after this lynch.

If I'm being perfectly honest (always a bad idea in a Mafia game), I think you are already dead. There is no chance to save you. I am thus trying to mitigate the backlash that I receive from your death so that a townie (me) doesn't get lynched tomorrow. I am literally at this point 50/50 on your civness based entirely on gut, so I'm willing to vote for you, regardless of the fact that it makes Keterman think I'm "scum".

As to your question, if you flip bad I could see myself buying the argument that SVS is your teammate...if you flip good I become much more inclined to start looking for mafia in the quieter, more blendy players who have jut sort of gone along with things for the last few days without any effort to shift the conversation...nijajujube, maybe? Hedgie? juliets, perhaps? I'll have to do a reread of a few players at that point to see what I can see

Keterman wrote:Also, Canucklehead compares herself to bwt with her position. Yet their positions are clearly completely different. bwt said that he thinks that both SVS and Made are bad, and that it is only a matter of which one of them is more likely to be bad. Canucklehead thinks that Made is town and didn't even mention the possibility that SVS is bad in her post, only referencing her to ask Made a question. I am now willing to lynch Canuck.

linki - When did I say I was cursed? My keyboard was having problems. I would type a sentence and I would have to wait 30+ seconds to find out if it would render in the reply-machine-whatchamacallit. I got sick of how time consuming that was so I just started posting whatever ended up showing up. Now I've found a solution for it so it's all good.

Why should she mention it, it isn't true.