[END] Turf Wars: Battle of the Hosts

[Quin]

This post, Epi. You clearly held the same opinion for me as you did him right here.

linki: You're right Epi, of course. The way I went about addressing that issue was definitely weird, but I don't regret it because it lead me to understand how Wilgy felt about you before he died. How do you feel about Metalmarsh now? I know you scumread him as much as you did me, but have those feelings changed? Why did you pick me over the marmot to lynch?

Eh? When did this happen?

Help me out here.

I'm not sure how. It's all right there.

[indiglo]

Well hello end of thread, my old friend. I bet you won't be sticking around long.


Ok, now I can ISO Quin. (I still say re-read in my head. Old coot that I am.) Now, I'm going to go ahead and put my vote on sig. At this point, I don't think I'd feel terrible about tossing a vote at gleam either. The ISOing helped bunches.

Can't feel supercomfy voting Quin atm, but will revisit after ISOing. I will say this, his desire to discuss this and try to figure it out makes me feel better about him, because that seems genuine. I will ISO with an open mind and see what happens.


I was so worried about hopping into a full game after being gone so long. I feel so rusty and so many cobwebs, but can I just say that I am having a BLAST!


Damn linki~ and goodbye, end of thread, my old friend.

[Epignosis]

This post, Epi. You clearly held the same opinion for me as you did him right here.

linki: You're right Epi, of course. The way I went about addressing that issue was definitely weird, but I don't regret it because it lead me to understand how Wilgy felt about you before he died. How do you feel about Metalmarsh now? I know you scumread him as much as you did me, but have those feelings changed? Why did you pick me over the marmot to lynch?

Eh? When did this happen?

Help me out here.

I'm not sure how. It's all right there.

I don't mention MetalMarsh89 in the post you quoted. I have no idea what you're getting at. MM voted me Day 1, but I didn't suspect him for it. He had a reason (a bad one), but he had a reason.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

I feel like if I have to pursue another gleam lynch I'm gonna have an aneurism.

Do you feel like it would be a good lynch? would be ironic if heaps of us shifted from one cop to another lol.

I do. And that's really possible. Could lead to some interesting information too.

But I'm having nightmares of the times I pushed lynches on a single player for half of the game only to have them flip civ. I don't feel like doing that again.

[Quin]

This post, Epi. You clearly held the same opinion for me as you did him right here.

linki: You're right Epi, of course. The way I went about addressing that issue was definitely weird, but I don't regret it because it lead me to understand how Wilgy felt about you before he died. How do you feel about Metalmarsh now? I know you scumread him as much as you did me, but have those feelings changed? Why did you pick me over the marmot to lynch?

Eh? When did this happen?

Help me out here.

I'm not sure how. It's all right there.

I don't mention MetalMarsh89 in the post you quoted. I have no idea what you're getting at. MM voted me Day 1, but I didn't suspect him for it. He had a reason (a bad one), but he had a reason.

Aw shit. I think I mixed up metalmarsh with nerolunar. I have no excuse.

[sig]

So, why I think sig is bad.

1) He immediately read the shift to Fuzz as 'some kind of big save', and he settles on it specifically being a save of ika or epi. Gleam is notably absent. Quotes like this:

The fact that the Gleam wagon exploded at the beginning of the phase with almost no explanation to being gone and another wagon popping up ijust as fast is insane. I bet Fuzz will flip civ, you'll attempt to lead a Gleam lynch tomorrow and they will flip civ. I know firmly believe one of the other two front runners is a cop.

Make it seem to me like sig was protecting both fuzz AND gleam in that eod. Sig seems to ignore that the ika and epi bandwagons also seem to have popped up with not really any more explanation that the gleam or fuzz ones.

I was defending Gleam I've been against his wagon since day 1 so what is your point? I also had mentioned the Ika wagon and being agaisnt phase 1 and part of 2. I voiced my opinion on Epi thinking he was mafia which is why I voted for him. So to say I was just protecting gleam at EOD Is a Lie. I was trying to defend both of them, since I thought both where civ and the mafia was trying to save Epi/Ika. So this point makes no sense. I will say again I was agaisnt Ika, Gleam, and Fuzz I though Epi was mafia and did spend portions of both phases defending them.

So, why I think sig is bad.

2) Quotes like this:

I also find it very odd Golden doesn't want to lynch Ike a new player but suggested a CFD onto Serge another new player?

Seem to me on their face very manipulative. Trying to discredit one of the loudest voices by misrepresenting the motivation for saving ika.

Also this:

This is the scummiest CFD since the one I lead to stop me from getting lynched when I was almost confirmed mafia

trying to paint the CFD as 'scummy'. Like, his language was very strong in its opposition and I felt it was designed to save Fuzz. The whole time he was talking about how all that would happen is mafia would drop out of the other chains to vote in the new one... it seemed false to me.

3)

He voted for ike after saying he wasn't going to discuss ike/Silver correct? I believe Baddie Fuzz wouldn't slip like that. I think this is the mafia finding a weak reason and freaking everyone out.

Here is another quote that specifically bothered me. "I believe baddie fuzz wouldn't slip like that". It felt and sounded to me like a specific effort to protect Fuzz.

You threw out so many potential lynches, it was scummy. Especially Serge who even you didn't build a case agaisnt. So yes I was discrediting you and I do still think your scum. That post seems more like a NO U then an actually case.

I've said this time and time again CFD are usually scummy to me, we can argue this back and forth but most sites I play on CFD never help civs. I gave two examples of this to BR. Even if the mafia didn't lead the CFD it gives them a good excuse to switch with little consequence to themselves if it is a mislynch and civ credit if it isn't.
IT WAS I THOUGHT HE WAS CIV. I don't see why you cant grasp that. I was obviously voicing my opinion that Fuzz was good, I was never secretly or even soft defending him I came out hard in his defense and stated my view whether popular or not. LIKE I ALWAYS DO AS CIV. It got me lynched in Bullwinkle, it got me lynched in GoC, and if it gets me lynched here so be it. HOWEVER, you are attempting to make it seem scummy that I defended Fuzz as if I wasn't specifically defending him when I was. I thought he was town and I thought mafia was redirecting the wagon so of course I defended someone who I thought was being unfairly bandwagoned.

4) He expressly advocated people vote on the counter chain

Yo zebra, what do you think of this sudden Fuzz wagon? You should vote for Ike.

5) It doesn't help that sigs view of the world post-lynch is essentially the exact reverse of what I think seems sensible and still seems like it is being defensive of the people I see as most likely to be his teammates.

I'm in no way mafia was I wrong about Fuzz yes. However, nobody had convinced me enough to prove he was guilty and I had already mentioned how I'd rather Ika be lynched then another player. At that time this player was gleam but all the gleam people switched to Fuzz.

Quin (5), Nerolunar (6), agleaminranks (11), Soneji (12), Serge (14),RadicalFuzz (16), Enrique (23), Long Con (28), sig (29)

The most suspicious here is LC. I think the people more likely to be cops are Zebra/Epi, and Sloonie. I don't doubt there are a few on here however, I don't think there would have been a huge movement to save Fuzz if anything I think mafia members would jump in his wagon to gain civ credit espacilly when you have Golden saying nobody on the Fuzz wagon was mafia.

LC, zebra, epi and sloonei most suspicious? That I found very hard to understand. What about gleam, quin, enrique?

6) And he was the deciding vote that appeared to save Fuzz.

There is lots that looks bad to me in sig's iso. He looks good on day 3, I won't deny. He's tried very hard to clear his name.

So I look good here but your still tunneling on me?

Also yes I did try to get people to vote for Epi I thought he was mafia. Your whole case surrounds the fact that your saying I was defending Fuzz and gleam at the same time OMG I WAS DEFENDING PEOPLE I MUST BE BAD. I never pretended that I wasn't defending Fuzz, I did try to get people to vote with me yes since I thought he was a civ and that Epi was mafia. I thought there was a higher chance Ika was mafia and since the Epi lynch wasn't happening I did the next best thing.

[indiglo]

How do people post their ISO's? It just seems like a lot of effort of going back and forth between pages to keep quotes. There's got to be a faster method than that, right?

If I need to quote something, here is my method.

I right click anything I want to quote and open it in a new tab (I'm a pc). Then I post my reply and keep going in my original tab. Orrr I collect several quote tabs that way, then copy/paste them into 1 tab and reply there. Does that make sense?

[Quin]

I don't see anything different in Epi than I did when we played Zodiac as scum together. You could debate that I have the freshest eyes out of everyone here, but you could also argue that I'm the least educated on typical Epi gameplay. Either way, I think we could get some quality information by lynching Epi. I say that because of this post:

@Epignosis, what do you think about Wilgy right now?

I mean, you said you think he's a civ, but what made you change your mind?

Dunno if you have the time to answer this now, but I'll leave the question for when you do.

I won't be voting for him. I don't think it's a good idea to say why.

It's a shame that I can't find the voting patterns from Zodiac Mafia. What do you all think? Does Epi usually shy away from lynches like he did just now?

Epignosis you are experiencing in this game and in Zodiac are unlike any Epignosis I have encountered in mafia by recollection. I don't wish to rely on meta, but I'm willing to discuss it and look at it.

Zodia doesn't really count though. It was a crazy setup, and Epignosis was also role-playing.

But Epignosis specified in this game that he has been trying to tone down his usual confrontational attitude. Is it an excuse? I don't think so. But that's more of a personally determined answer.

Okay, here's my excuse. Metalmarsh said this in reply to what I said. I must have mixed them up that way.

[sig]

Reading on the end of the day 2.

Wow why Fuzz this makes no sense I think this is a baddie driven CFD to save a teammate, notice almost the same people are up for lynches today as yesterday? I stand by my theory that one was mafia and that we had some minor save last phase, I think we are seeing a much bigger save attempt this phase. With a mafia team thhis big a CFD is easy to pull off I think this is scum driven to save one of the three leading people. Most likely Ike or Epi.

Can someone give me any reason for the Fuzz lynch?

I also really dislike DDL switch and his reasons. I actually am agreeing with Llama about him what about a Dragon lycnh?

linki: DDL and Golden are my top two scum reads, either Ike or Epi are there partners. Possibly Wilgy as well.

Is it just me or this post was typed really fast? Look at the typing errors.

I'd rather not see my typing errors, though it is probably giving Epi a heart attack. :P

Again here. Right after ika calls him bad. He types this really fast.

Notice how this isn't a regular thing, Sig is perfectly capable of writing better constructed post in other situations.

Thank you? I think.

Why do you bring this up? EOD was close and I was typing quickly to get my points across are you saying this is an alignment indicator or? Your case agaisnt me has little to no bearing it seems your just tone reading and saying I'm bad since I was typing fast to get my point across? That makes no sense what so ever. I'll address Golden's points in a second, but you seem super scummy. Tell me what happened to your Gleam suspicions?

WIll you cut with the OMGUS, plz? Not everyone who votes for you must be bad.

I posted the quotes about spelling errors because I felt nobody else had pointed that. There are so many other points about you being bad in this game I felt no need to repeat in detail. Instead I summed up everything in a post.

You feel like you were trying to put down a fire. Tell me, did you actually think Fuzz was a civ during that lynch?

Linki: why don't you vote for Golden then? You have been calling his bad over and over since Day 2, I'm not seeing your vote.

This is such a scummy thing to do, even with changeable votes I rarely vote early. Saying I should vote know is something mafia has done repeatedly I will vote when I want to.

It isn't an OMGUS I already suspected you before this and said so.
So what does my fast posts mean to you is it scummy or what?
Obviously I thought Fuzz was civ, and in fact I said so in thread.

[Quin]

How do people post their ISO's? It just seems like a lot of effort of going back and forth between pages to keep quotes. There's got to be a faster method than that, right?

If I need to quote something, here is my method.

I right click anything I want to quote and open it in a new tab (I'm a pc). Then I post my reply and keep going in my original tab. Orrr I collect several quote tabs that way, then copy/paste them into 1 tab and reply there. Does that make sense?

Yeah, it does. It just seems really time consuming.

[indiglo]

How do people post their ISO's? It just seems like a lot of effort of going back and forth between pages to keep quotes. There's got to be a faster method than that, right?

If I need to quote something, here is my method.

I right click anything I want to quote and open it in a new tab (I'm a pc). Then I post my reply and keep going in my original tab. Orrr I collect several quote tabs that way, then copy/paste them into 1 tab and reply there. Does that make sense?

Yeah, it does. It just seems really time consuming.

It is. And then your eyes cross and your brain turns to mush.


Doooo iiittt. It's fuuuuuuun. Doooooooo iiiiiiiit.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

Obviously I thought Fuzz was civ, and in fact I said so in thread.

Can you give me an example from before the CFD started?

[Golden]

@Golden

Mafia has made me paranoid. I think that's a good thing, imo.

I think you need to work on your presentation of reads better though. You have been giving me an arrogant vibe, specially since right after the lynch. And I hate arrogance with a passion. Please do not take this as an insult, just a criticism.

It's fair for you to criticise. It's something that's entirely true (that I intentionally presented that way). It's not something that is likely to change, though. Because I'm not actually arrogant. But sometimes times come along where I feel 'this is when I need to stand up and lead' and right now is one of them.

Perhaps at the end of the game, we can talk about this. I believe you will see, at the end of the game, that maybe 90% of my reads coming out of that end of day were correct. Of course I could always be wrong, and people will delight in proving it to me if I am. Good on them.

Every now and then I see what happened with crystal clarity, and when I do, everyone is going to know about it. I see peoples motives and actions and behind the scenes thinking so clearly. That's what happened in that end of day. I feel like, in an hour, I went from not knowing much to virtually solving the game. I see it very clearly. Others don't have to. And like I say, I could be wrong. But I'm willing to eat a camel etc. I'm very sure I'm right about most of what I think happened.

So - if you feel upset by my attitude, then... take whatever course you like. I'm not asking anyone to blindly follow me. Everyone should come to their own conclusions. If I'm wrong, laugh at me and make fun of me. If I'm right, be annoyed at me. I don't mind, genuinely don't, however you want to react to me, especially if I've cocked it all up. I'll mea culpa!

But the one thing you shouldn't do is presume that any of the reads I make are superficial, or based on very simplistic black/white criteria. My opinions might be black/white, but how I got there is still sufficiently complex. When you say to me that my methods are 'stupid or draconian', I'm not upset at that. Genuinely not. I know some people might be, but I get it. But, you've seen how savvy I am when bad. You should at least trust that I am no less savvy when any other affiliation.

[Golden]

I feel like if I have to pursue another gleam lynch I'm gonna have an aneurism.

Do you feel like it would be a good lynch? would be ironic if heaps of us shifted from one cop to another lol.

I do. And that's really possible. Could lead to some interesting information too.

But I'm having nightmares of the times I pushed lynches on a single player for half of the game only to have them flip civ. I don't feel like doing that again.

Ah, see, I think you need more arrogance

(I think my arrogance is more a front... for knowing you HAVE to lynch someone no matter what. Take sig, for example. He cast the vote that 'saved' Fuzz. How can we ever get to end game without ever lynching him? At some point, he is going to be lynched, you know? That's just TOO objectively suspicious.)

[Epignosis]

This post, Epi. You clearly held the same opinion for me as you did him right here.

linki: You're right Epi, of course. The way I went about addressing that issue was definitely weird, but I don't regret it because it lead me to understand how Wilgy felt about you before he died. How do you feel about Metalmarsh now? I know you scumread him as much as you did me, but have those feelings changed? Why did you pick me over the marmot to lynch?

Eh? When did this happen?

Help me out here.

I'm not sure how. It's all right there.

I don't mention MetalMarsh89 in the post you quoted. I have no idea what you're getting at. MM voted me Day 1, but I didn't suspect him for it. He had a reason (a bad one), but he had a reason.

Aw shit. I think I mixed up metalmarsh with nerolunar. I have no excuse.

Oh, hell. I should've been able to figure that out.

There's a possibility I'll vote Nerolunar instead of you. I've got to think about it though. Here's why:

Ugh. My first lynch priority today so far is Ika, but he can´t even defend himself so it would be a really rude move to lynch him. I will be looking for other suspects instead. Im considering Zebra or any of the other low posters like Black Rock or Soneji, or even Chaindeath. Well, mostly Chaindeath now that I think about it.

@ Quin

Before you asked me if I didn´t find Sloonei suspicious because he had the same behavior as you for a bit at the CFD. I do believe it was just as weird, but he is striking me as town in all other areas so far. Although you have defended yourself very well recently.

Linki - sometimes the linkis doesnt show up, and sometimes they do. Its weird.

This post indicates that Nerolunar thinks both Fuzz and ika are cops. That would be something if they were. But check this:

I have more thoughts on today's discussion, but a quick post just as an observation: ika has only been posting in pictures since the night started. Is it possible that maybe this was his "payment" for a role in the vote loan, if he took part in it? Is there a role akin to insanifying but with pictures? I need to go back and reread the roles real quick.

Update, there aren't really any police roles that give something like this. It's possible that it has something to do with Team Socky's secret role but since the action started at the very beginning of Night 2, I'm inclined to believe it's his payment for vote loans.

I agree with this. I doubt a secret role is cursing people- I would figure a the secret roles (designed by the players) would be more inventive. Loaned votes have to be repaid according to terms decided by the loan shark.

So if Nerolunar is right, and gleam is right, then that means ika borrowed votes and put them on a teammate for Day 2. That would be...incredibly stupid, right?

Then Nerolunar feels sad that he can't go after ika and then names a number of low posters instead. This is Day 3. After Radical Fuzz got lynched and was bad.

I may have just talked myself into voting Nerolunar.

[Golden]

What I mean is, try to look a little more like you are aware you could be wrong. It shouldn't take 48 hours of pressuring for someone to make you admit that.

Here is something you have to understand about me. You spend the first year of your legal career having words like "I think" deleted from everything you write. My opinions will be expressed as facts, because it is how I am trained to write. The facts of how I see the game. I expect everyone to understand that they are my opinions, unless there is a role that knows everything at which they think I am hinting. Because obviously I do not actually know very much.

[indiglo]

I think you'd all be interested to hear that I've just stick my fingers into a running ceiling fan trying to put on a shirt. It hurts.

This reads pretty scummy, tbh.

Sorry, had to break up my monotony for a minute and actually blink.

[Marmot]

What I mean is, try to look a little more like you are aware you could be wrong. It shouldn't take 48 hours of pressuring for someone to make you admit that.

Here is something you have to understand about me. You spend the first year of your legal career having words like "I think" deleted from everything you write. My opinions will be expressed as facts, because it is how I am trained to write. The facts of how I see the game. I expect everyone to understand that they are my opinions, unless there is a role that knows everything at which they think I am hinting. Because obviously I do not actually know very much.

Help to give me strength to face another day.

I am ready.

[indiglo]

Re: [DAY 2] Turf Wars: Battle of the Hosts
Postby Quin » Wed Mar 09, 2016 5:41 pm

I'm behind seven pages. Catching up before the deadline isn't going to happen. Can someone give me a summary of Fuzz? What'd he do?

Fuzz stated he wanted to avoid the ika/Silverwolf situation. The situation being that he thought people were bandwagoning him because he was new and people didn't understand him. He also said that he would break whatever tie came up. He voted for ika. Peoples interpretation of the vote vary.

Ok, the date and time are in my time zone (obviously) which is US Central but I wanted to point out that this post was made, what, like 15 minutes before poll close? I think it closed just before 7pm Eastern, so just before 6pm in my time zone.

I like this post. It is a factual summation of events with zero agenda. So, we're talking about panicking cops there at the last minute, right? This post is cool as a cucumber. The lack of agenda is what strikes me the most. I'm continuing my ISO, but wanted to share this as I go just in case I would forget it or lose the tab.

(Dex teases me all the time for my browsing habits - I normally have somewhere around 20 tabs open at any given moment. So sometimes I'll accidentally close one and not realize it! Shock and horror!)

[Quin]

This post, Epi. You clearly held the same opinion for me as you did him right here.

linki: You're right Epi, of course. The way I went about addressing that issue was definitely weird, but I don't regret it because it lead me to understand how Wilgy felt about you before he died. How do you feel about Metalmarsh now? I know you scumread him as much as you did me, but have those feelings changed? Why did you pick me over the marmot to lynch?

Eh? When did this happen?

Help me out here.

I'm not sure how. It's all right there.

I don't mention MetalMarsh89 in the post you quoted. I have no idea what you're getting at. MM voted me Day 1, but I didn't suspect him for it. He had a reason (a bad one), but he had a reason.

Aw shit. I think I mixed up metalmarsh with nerolunar. I have no excuse.

Oh, hell. I should've been able to figure that out.

There's a possibility I'll vote Nerolunar instead of you. I've got to think about it though. Here's why:

Ugh. My first lynch priority today so far is Ika, but he can´t even defend himself so it would be a really rude move to lynch him. I will be looking for other suspects instead. Im considering Zebra or any of the other low posters like Black Rock or Soneji, or even Chaindeath. Well, mostly Chaindeath now that I think about it.

@ Quin

Before you asked me if I didn´t find Sloonei suspicious because he had the same behavior as you for a bit at the CFD. I do believe it was just as weird, but he is striking me as town in all other areas so far. Although you have defended yourself very well recently.

Linki - sometimes the linkis doesnt show up, and sometimes they do. Its weird.

This post indicates that Nerolunar thinks both Fuzz and ika are cops. That would be something if they were. But check this:

I have more thoughts on today's discussion, but a quick post just as an observation: ika has only been posting in pictures since the night started. Is it possible that maybe this was his "payment" for a role in the vote loan, if he took part in it? Is there a role akin to insanifying but with pictures? I need to go back and reread the roles real quick.

Update, there aren't really any police roles that give something like this. It's possible that it has something to do with Team Socky's secret role but since the action started at the very beginning of Night 2, I'm inclined to believe it's his payment for vote loans.

I agree with this. I doubt a secret role is cursing people- I would figure a the secret roles (designed by the players) would be more inventive. Loaned votes have to be repaid according to terms decided by the loan shark.

So if Nerolunar is right, and gleam is right, then that means ika borrowed votes and put them on a teammate for Day 2. That would be...incredibly stupid, right?

Then Nerolunar feels sad that he can't go after ika and then names a number of low posters instead. This is Day 3. After Radical Fuzz got lynched and was bad.

I may have just talked myself into voting Nerolunar.

Hey, I'm not complaining. But take this into account: At one point, I seem to remember Silver saying something along the lines of 'ika is the kind of mafia member who just does his own thing'. If I'm wrong about my memory, this whole hypothetical is moot, but I'll run with it until told otherwise.

At the end of the day, it was going to be either ika or fuzz that got lynched. Is it a stretch to consider that ika used a loaned vote to sacrifice Fuzz for the sake of self-preservation? The bandwagons for fuzz would probably have kept coming if ika was lynched, but with fuzz lynched, there's not a single person voting for ika right now. I think that's mostly owing to the fact that there's dispute on whether people are suspicious of ika or if they just don't understand him. If that's the case, it's not all that stupid a move to make.

I think that I can draw a line here and say that if Nero is scum, ika probably isn't. And vice versa. I might even join you in voting Nero, if you're up to it. While it's ironic for me to even say it, I think Nero may have been clinging to my 'lynch for information' case against you. And on the plus side, I'll have some more confidence in how I perceive ika.

[sig]

Obviously I thought Fuzz was civ, and in fact I said so in thread.

Can you give me an example from before the CFD started?

I gave reasoning for it before not a specific example, and why would I have bothered before the CFD was started before it started it wasn't a thing.

[Golden]

Re: [DAY 2] Turf Wars: Battle of the Hosts
Postby Quin » Wed Mar 09, 2016 5:41 pm

I'm behind seven pages. Catching up before the deadline isn't going to happen. Can someone give me a summary of Fuzz? What'd he do?

Fuzz stated he wanted to avoid the ika/Silverwolf situation. The situation being that he thought people were bandwagoning him because he was new and people didn't understand him. He also said that he would break whatever tie came up. He voted for ika. Peoples interpretation of the vote vary.

Ok, the date and time are in my time zone (obviously) which is US Central but I wanted to point out that this post was made, what, like 15 minutes before poll close? I think it closed just before 7pm Eastern, so just before 6pm in my time zone.

I like this post. It is a factual summation of events with zero agenda. So, we're talking about panicking cops there at the last minute, right? This post is cool as a cucumber. The lack of agenda is what strikes me the most. I'm continuing my ISO, but wanted to share this as I go just in case I would forget it or lose the tab.

(Dex teases me all the time for my browsing habits - I normally have somewhere around 20 tabs open at any given moment. So sometimes I'll accidentally close one and not realize it! Shock and horror!)

Yeah, that's exactly what I was finding with Quinn.

It's kind of uncanny how similar we are seeing things.

[indiglo]

Ok. Quin, I think I may have a new question for you that no one has asked yet! (Or else I missed it in a mountain of linki. ) I'm going to highlight the parts I'm asking about, but leave the rest of the quote there for reference or context:


From March 10 -

I don't see anything different in Epi than I did when we played Zodiac as scum together. You could debate that I have the freshest eyes out of everyone here, but you could also argue that I'm the least educated on typical Epi gameplay. Either way, I think we could get some quality information by lynching Epi. I say that because of this post:

@Epignosis, what do you think about Wilgy right now?

I mean, you said you think he's a civ, but what made you change your mind?

Dunno if you have the time to answer this now, but I'll leave the question for when you do.

I won't be voting for him. I don't think it's a good idea to say why.

It's a shame that I can't find the voting patterns from Zodiac Mafia. What do you all think? Does Epi usually shy away from lynches like he did just now?

From March 11 -

I want to make sure that sig, Enrique and the other anti-CFDers get their proper day in court. It's easy to assume they're all baddies caught with their pants down but it almost feels like thats too easy. For all we know the rest of the fuzz weren't even around at EoD.

I feel like I've already run out of things to say on the topic, but I will reiterate that I wasn't against the CFD as a concept, but I thought at the time that Fuzz was the wrong choice. Of course, whoever you chose I would have stuck with ika.

I have about an hour until I have to go to uni, so I'll answer any questions before then.

But see this is why I find you so scummy. If you're on board with the CFD concept, then it means you should be on board with lynching a player without a whole lot of discussion or reasoning. It's supposed to be a spontaneous, spur of the moment thing. But then you objected to lynching Fuzz because there wasn't enough reason and discussion. So on the one hand, you say you're on board with the concept, but then on the other hand you completely reject the concept when it's put into practice. I see this as a contradiction, and it's not unreasonable to think this is because you were trying to save a teammate.

I don't think you're taking what Im saying on board. I've said that I didn't disagree with the concept of a CFD, but I have also said multiple times that I do not approve of votes without proper justification. This is why I objected to it. I feel like I need to remind you also that I didn't know what a CFD was at the time, so all it looked like to me was an unorganised bandwagon without a tangible basis. I feel like I'm 'no u'ing now, but what you're giving me and have been for a while is not typical Sloonei behaviour.

Epi, don't you think it ironic that you're casting suspicion at me for bringing up the concept of lynching you for info without going into specifics, when you objected to voting wilfy ... Without going into specifics. At first I had thought it was because you were all part of the capo trio, but I ISOd wilgy before and the way he cast so much suspicion on you makes me think this is not the case.

I'll get some more out when I get home, for now I'm still at uni andvIm not writing another essay on his phone, no thank you.

Just the 2 highlighted sections. Could you elaborate on your thought process here, or exactly what you meant?

[indiglo]

EBWOP-

Please to ignore the yellow text. I bolded, italicized and underlined the bits I'm referencing. Someone else did the yellow.

[sprityo]

Alright let me start attempting to play now.

Hello everyone, I havent read a single thing.

I asked for a replacement earlier due to being busy, but hey spring break is here, so let's take a fresh start to a game already 2 days in the making

[Quin]

Alright let me start attempting to play now.

Hello everyone, I havent read a single thing.

I asked for a replacement earlier due to being busy, but hey spring break is here, so let's take a fresh start to a game already 2 days in the making

Boy, do I have some news for you!

[indiglo]

Re: [DAY 2] Turf Wars: Battle of the Hosts
Postby Quin » Wed Mar 09, 2016 5:41 pm

I'm behind seven pages. Catching up before the deadline isn't going to happen. Can someone give me a summary of Fuzz? What'd he do?

Fuzz stated he wanted to avoid the ika/Silverwolf situation. The situation being that he thought people were bandwagoning him because he was new and people didn't understand him. He also said that he would break whatever tie came up. He voted for ika. Peoples interpretation of the vote vary.

Ok, the date and time are in my time zone (obviously) which is US Central but I wanted to point out that this post was made, what, like 15 minutes before poll close? I think it closed just before 7pm Eastern, so just before 6pm in my time zone.

I like this post. It is a factual summation of events with zero agenda. So, we're talking about panicking cops there at the last minute, right? This post is cool as a cucumber. The lack of agenda is what strikes me the most. I'm continuing my ISO, but wanted to share this as I go just in case I would forget it or lose the tab.

(Dex teases me all the time for my browsing habits - I normally have somewhere around 20 tabs open at any given moment. So sometimes I'll accidentally close one and not realize it! Shock and horror!)

Yeah, that's exactly what I was finding with Quinn.

It's kind of uncanny how similar we are seeing things.

I'm not sure which one of us should be more frightened.

[sprityo]

Alright let me start attempting to play now.

Hello everyone, I havent read a single thing.

I asked for a replacement earlier due to being busy, but hey spring break is here, so let's take a fresh start to a game already 2 days in the making

Boy, do I have some news for you!

is it the new york times or the dallas morning news?

[sprityo]

oh haha, matt is back, okay, good luck matt

[Epignosis]

I think that I can draw a line here and say that if Nero is scum, ika probably isn't. And vice versa. I might even join you in voting Nero, if you're up to it. While it's ironic for me to even say it, I think Nero may have been clinging to my 'lynch for information' case against you. And on the plus side, I'll have some more confidence in how I perceive ika.

I have to think about that.

[indiglo]

oh haha, matt is back, okay, good luck matt

When I first saw him post again after replacing back in, I saw that it wasn't dead red, and it was on topic - I had a mini heart attack! Then I remembered, oh yeah, he replaced back in. Then I laughed and I laughed. Maniacally, until I stepped on my dog's misplaced chewing bone. I wasn't laughing anymore after that.

[Quin]

Ok. Quin, I think I may have a new question for you that no one has asked yet! (Or else I missed it in a mountain of linki. ) I'm going to highlight the parts I'm asking about, but leave the rest of the quote there for reference or context:


From March 10 -

I don't see anything different in Epi than I did when we played Zodiac as scum together. You could debate that I have the freshest eyes out of everyone here, but you could also argue that I'm the least educated on typical Epi gameplay. Either way, I think we could get some quality information by lynching Epi. I say that because of this post:

@Epignosis, what do you think about Wilgy right now?

I mean, you said you think he's a civ, but what made you change your mind?

Dunno if you have the time to answer this now, but I'll leave the question for when you do.

I won't be voting for him. I don't think it's a good idea to say why.

It's a shame that I can't find the voting patterns from Zodiac Mafia. What do you all think? Does Epi usually shy away from lynches like he did just now?

From March 11 -

I want to make sure that sig, Enrique and the other anti-CFDers get their proper day in court. It's easy to assume they're all baddies caught with their pants down but it almost feels like thats too easy. For all we know the rest of the fuzz weren't even around at EoD.

I feel like I've already run out of things to say on the topic, but I will reiterate that I wasn't against the CFD as a concept, but I thought at the time that Fuzz was the wrong choice. Of course, whoever you chose I would have stuck with ika.

I have about an hour until I have to go to uni, so I'll answer any questions before then.

But see this is why I find you so scummy. If you're on board with the CFD concept, then it means you should be on board with lynching a player without a whole lot of discussion or reasoning. It's supposed to be a spontaneous, spur of the moment thing. But then you objected to lynching Fuzz because there wasn't enough reason and discussion. So on the one hand, you say you're on board with the concept, but then on the other hand you completely reject the concept when it's put into practice. I see this as a contradiction, and it's not unreasonable to think this is because you were trying to save a teammate.

I don't think you're taking what Im saying on board. I've said that I didn't disagree with the concept of a CFD, but I have also said multiple times that I do not approve of votes without proper justification. This is why I objected to it. I feel like I need to remind you also that I didn't know what a CFD was at the time, so all it looked like to me was an unorganised bandwagon without a tangible basis. I feel like I'm 'no u'ing now, but what you're giving me and have been for a while is not typical Sloonei behaviour.

Epi, don't you think it ironic that you're casting suspicion at me for bringing up the concept of lynching you for info without going into specifics, when you objected to voting wilfy ... Without going into specifics. At first I had thought it was because you were all part of the capo trio, but I ISOd wilgy before and the way he cast so much suspicion on you makes me think this is not the case.

I'll get some more out when I get home, for now I'm still at uni andvIm not writing another essay on his phone, no thank you.

Just the 2 highlighted sections. Could you elaborate on your thought process here, or exactly what you meant?

Yes ma'am.

1) Epi had prior stated that he objected to the concept of voting for Wilgy. His explanation was cryptic, but it still brought me to a pretty reasonable conclusion that they had BTSC; specifically the Capo/Crew trio. I wanted to do a quick ISO on the both of them to solidify that conclusion, but I found that after Epi made that point, Wilgy began to throw a lot of suspicion his way, and that gave me a pretty significant ping for Epi. Given that I was right about Wilgy being in that group, I figured that he must have seen Epi's statement as a role hint and objected to it. The idea of lynching him for information was primarily so that I could get some information on Wilgy. But since he's died I think the idea is pointless. Looking back, I think the entire idea of sacrificing Epi for information was pretty nasty (and objectively suspicious) and I'll definitely never do it again. Ultimately, I'm coming back around to the idea that Epi did actually have BTSC with Wilgy, and perhaps it was just banter, or them trying to disassociate themselves from one another.

2) I'm not sure how exactly to elaborate on this one. What I said was pretty much what I meant. I think I feel differently now, as I said above. Is there something specific you'd like me to say here?

[Quin]

I'll also add that if I'm correct about the two of them having BTSC, I also have a gut feeling about the identity of the third.

[Quin]

I think I'm in info vomit mode here, but I've just thought of something worth considering.

Could ika be the don? He can only be lynched if the majority are from his own family, and since he had the most votes total, it's possible that the loan shark had nothing to do with this, and he just wasn't lynched because of the role criteria.

[Silverwolf]

I think I'm in info vomit mode here, but I've just thought of something worth considering.

Could ika be the don? He can only be lynched if the majority are from his own family, and since he had the most votes total, it's possible that the loan shark had nothing to do with this, and he just wasn't lynched because of the role criteria.

No, I highly doubt ika is a don.

[Tangrowth]

(Dex teases me all the time for my browsing habits - I normally have somewhere around 20 tabs open at any given moment. So sometimes I'll accidentally close one and not realize it! Shock and horror!)

I do that too, especially when playing mafia.

Then after the 30th tab I get frustrated when my browser starts acting up...

oh haha, matt is back, okay, good luck matt

When I first saw him post again after replacing back in, I saw that it wasn't dead red, and it was on topic - I had a mini heart attack! Then I remembered, oh yeah, he replaced back in. Then I laughed and I laughed. Maniacally, until I stepped on my dog's misplaced chewing bone. I wasn't laughing anymore after that.

[Silverwolf]

I think I'm in info vomit mode here, but I've just thought of something worth considering.

Could ika be the don? He can only be lynched if the majority are from his own family, and since he had the most votes total, it's possible that the loan shark had nothing to do with this, and he just wasn't lynched because of the role criteria.

No, I highly doubt ika is a don.

To expland on this, I would expect the don to be playing super obvious town. Based on that alone, it isn't ika.

[Quin]

I think I'm in info vomit mode here, but I've just thought of something worth considering.

Could ika be the don? He can only be lynched if the majority are from his own family, and since he had the most votes total, it's possible that the loan shark had nothing to do with this, and he just wasn't lynched because of the role criteria.

No, I highly doubt ika is a don.

To expland on this, I would expect the don to be playing super obvious town. Based on that alone, it isn't ika.

That's a good point. Do you think that ika's image posting is some loan repayment task or is it something you've seen before?

[indiglo]

Yes ma'am.

1) Epi had prior stated that he objected to the concept of voting for Wilgy. His explanation was cryptic, but it still brought me to a pretty reasonable conclusion that they had BTSC; specifically the Capo/Crew trio. I wanted to do a quick ISO on the both of them to solidify that conclusion, but I found that after Epi made that point, Wilgy began to throw a lot of suspicion his way, and that gave me a pretty significant ping for Epi. Given that I was right about Wilgy being in that group, I figured that he must have seen Epi's statement as a role hint and objected to it. The idea of lynching him for information was primarily so that I could get some information on Wilgy. But since he's died I think the idea is pointless. Looking back, I think the entire idea of sacrificing Epi for information was pretty nasty (and objectively suspicious) and I'll definitely never do it again. Ultimately, I'm coming back around to the idea that Epi did actually have BTSC with Wilgy, and perhaps it was just banter, or them trying to disassociate themselves from one another.

2) I'm not sure how exactly to elaborate on this one. What I said was pretty much what I meant. I think I feel differently now, as I said above. Is there something specific you'd like me to say here?

Pistachios.



Seriously, no. You answered my question about your train of thought. That's all I was curious about, and you connected those dots for me. Thank you.


PS - I also meant to say earlier that catch of Epi's on Nero piqued my curiosity. Don't mind if I do a little look see there next.

[Golden]

I think nero looks suspicious, too, but I'm worried about confirmation bias... he hasn't been a civ here yet.

[Golden]

So a view from people he hasn't played with would be excellent.

[indiglo]

Excellent, indeed.

[Quin]

I'll move to Nero. I want to say that he's my best option to lynch today, because my other suspicions are probably compromised with an element of OMGUS; especially Sloonei. Golden's actions read scum to me, but the things he says read civ, so I really don't know what to do with him.

[Silverwolf]

I think I'm in info vomit mode here, but I've just thought of something worth considering.

Could ika be the don? He can only be lynched if the majority are from his own family, and since he had the most votes total, it's possible that the loan shark had nothing to do with this, and he just wasn't lynched because of the role criteria.

No, I highly doubt ika is a don.

To expland on this, I would expect the don to be playing super obvious town. Based on that alone, it isn't ika.

That's a good point. Do you think that ika's image posting is some loan repayment task or is it something you've seen before?

If I had to guess, I'd go with loan repayment. I've seen similar things at ms but they were post restrictions and this seems similar to that which makes sense for a loan repayment more than anything. I'm guessing ika had an extra vote on the Fuzz wagon.

[Sloonei]

Work was exhausting. Sloonei probably will not be posting anything tonight, for once.

[indiglo]

First off, it was LC who made the most recent post of his ISO on Nero. Sorry LC, my brain apparently has occasional trouble keeping things straight. (Shock, horror!)

Anyhoo, finished a re-read on Nero, and will post a little. I'll bold, italicize and underline any things that appear to perhaps be weird. These are in chronological order, and my apologies if these are any quotes LC already posted.


Sun Mar 06, 2016 1:55 pm

Who is Gleam? I dont see anyone with that name.

agleaminranks

Thanks. I read it completely different.

@ Sig To me its not "highly pingy" to call out lurking.

I am going to change my vote. Losing Ika now will eradicate all meta reads that he can give us on Silverwolf. I don´t like that uncertainty.

Im going to check up un Gleam and see if thats whgere my vote will be.

~First, he wants to keep ika so we can get meta reads on SW.



Sun Mar 06, 2016 3:29 pm

I think Im going to vote for Chaindeath. He voted for LC based on nothing earlier today, when the only thing LC had posted IIRC was an argument against the everyone-vote-for-everyone plan. Still getting mixed signals from Gleam, but I will let him slide this round.

See y`all tomorrow.

~Getting mixed signals from Gleam, but wants to keep him around anyway.




Wed Mar 09, 2016 10:03 am

Sorry Wilgy. I can't vote for you anymore. Something else came up.

Wait, quite a few people have been voicing disagreement against the Gleam wagon. Is this a coordinated cop effort to steer the thread in a specific direction?

~(Indi's note): Yes, see your post above when you said you were getting "mixed signals" from him and wanted to keep him around. Wishy washy statements so you can still fling mud at others. Nero never said he wanted to lynch Gleam, but now thinks the fact that others don't want to is a coordinated cop effort.

Go on...

Wow.

Well, if you can´t reference to posts and find bits of proof then how do you want us to agree with you? Why do you want to do ISO´s if you don´t want to analyse them?

Man.

Uh-huh. Nerolunar. Is the thread being steered? Who is doing the driving?

What the hell have I been reading the past few pages?

Have you figured it out yet?

No. A grammar and spelling manual would do wonders.

i do analize them

Ooooow.

Pursuing Ika right then seemed much more appropiate than trying to focus on the disagreement with the Gleam lynch. I got some fine answers from him that made me vote for him. We got to know Ika better and thats way more valuable than following through with my previous thoughts.

It pinged me that you were so quick to vote for me based on this. Were you pinged by me before? If so, where and why?

~Ok, now back ON the lynch ika train. What happened to the meta reads on SW he was so valuable for?



Thu Mar 10, 2016 9:34 am

Yay! Well done on the lynch.

Im not so sure on Ika anymore. Im more inclined to lynching Epi right now, though I will have to wait for the night to end before making any reads. We should have fresh information by then.

~ Off ika now again, looking at Epi, who just looked at him first. And made a decent sized post about Nero and voted him.


Fri Mar 11, 2016 3:03 am

Spoiler: show

I have finally finished reading. Jesus.

Taking the Lords name in vain, you should be lynched just for this.

Wow why Fuzz this makes no sense I think this is a baddie driven CFD to save a teammate, notice almost the same people are up for lynches today as yesterday? I stand by my theory that one was mafia and that we had some minor save last phase, I think we are seeing a much bigger save attempt this phase. With a mafia team thhis big a CFD is easy to pull off I think this is scum driven to save one of the three leading people. Most likely Ike or Epi.

Can someone give me any reason for the Fuzz lynch?

I also really dislike DDL switch and his reasons. I actually am agreeing with Llama about him what about a Dragon lycnh?

linki: DDL and Golden are my top two scum reads, either Ike or Epi are there partners. Possibly Wilgy as well.

While the "Wow why Fuzz this makes no sense" is the obvious thing people will take from this post, don't overlook that sig names five people- with thirty-three minutes in the lynch to go. We used to call that "throwing shit at the wall and seeing what sticks" back in the day. In addition, sig starts "agreeing" with llama about DDL.

sig, do you still agree with thellama73 about DDL? Why or why not?

I've still got a slight scum read on DDL mainly for Llama's points.I also didn't like his reasoning for switching wagons. I did name multiply people yes with good reasoning imo. I saw yesterday as an attempt to save Ika, Golden seemed scummy. I had already said one of the leading wagons was mafia that would have been Ika or you. Wilgy for reasons stated earlier. What is wrong with making multiply reads? I wasn't trying to redirect the CFD

I also find it very odd Golden doesn't want to lynch Ike a new player but suggested a CFD onto Serge another new player?

This isn't a big deal, but ika isn't a new player, and sig should know that.

This game was played eight months ago I didn't recall playing with Ika. This seems like a desperate attempt to try and refocus the discussion onto me.

The fact that the Gleam wagon exploded at the beginning of the phase with almost no explanation to being gone and another wagon popping up ijust as fast is insane. I bet Fuzz will flip civ, you'll attempt to lead a Gleam lynch tomorrow and they will flip civ. I know firmly believe one of the other two front runners is a cop.

This post oozes with desperation and fear-mongering. I wish I could see what the vote tallies looked like at the time of this post. I don't understand sig's thought process, but if sig is bad, I would argue that agleaminranks is good, because sig would know Fuzz wouldn't flip civilian.

Can you explain this I don't understand? I said if Fuzz flips civ then Gleam would be wagoned tomorrow and would the be civ. My thought process was simply. We had so many people vote Gleam for no good reason, his wagon exploded. Then it lost all its votes and was replaced by Fuzz. Could you explain your theory about Gleam being good if I'm bad?

I'm not going to go through all of sig's posts that are all railing against the wave of votes that came in out of nowhere for Fuzz. Here's my question: Is there a precedent for sig urging desperately against someone's lynch in the early stage of a game?

Sometimes I will, I recently did this more or less in Llama's game and it got me lynched. II think it has happened a few times, the reason I was so vocal this game was because I believed we where being redirected and pushed by the mafia.

I stand up for sig when he is town, all the time. You know this about me. Everyone does. I'm pretty good at seeing sig slips and seeing the reasons people are after him are dumb.

He made no slip here. He didn't post a word that was misinterpreted. People weren't taking him the wrong way. No - he opposed the CFD, and voted to break the tie and save Fuzz.

I do not believe this sig is town for a second.

Yep. I want to say I've even defended sig when he was bad and I wasn't.

That is true, however you also voted agaisnt me in The Syndicate game, when I voted with the last mafia player when I was indeed a civ. So I'd say you have defended me, but also voted agaisnt me when I made voting errors in the past.
++++

If I'm popped tonight, my top three are sig, Quin, and Nerolunar.

I'm not making a desperate attempt to refocus the discussion onto you. "Refocusing" assumes that the focus has gone away from you. It hasn't. You have two votes out of the gate. You desperately attempted to refocus discussion away from Fuzz. That is why you are the focus now.

My reasoning about gleam being good hinges on you being bad. If you are bad, I would argue that gleam is good. If you are a cop, then you knew Fuzz would not show up good, and you used gleam as a reason people shouldn't vote Fuzz. It's convoluted and based on assumptions about what people would do, which sounds like you were clutching at straws.

@ Epignosis

What exactly is your case against me? I only remember you mentioning me steering the thread earlier which you didn´t follow up on, but does it go beyond that? Explain to me why you find me suspicious.

I don't have a case against you. Yet.

So we've had a night phase. What fresh information do we have? Do you still want to lynch me?

Hm, Im not sure. You seem more civ now than before, but your weird behavior with avoiding wagons and such are still questionable. As for information, I don´t see any clear connection between the Wilgy kill and anyone.

I wish Black Rock and Llama would post more. They have been laying low for a while.

Im not opposed to a Quin lynch. Im happy you guys pointed out her weird behavior at EoD2. I didn´t notice that when I read through it.

@ DDL Can you point a finger at something that makes my post give off a weird vibe? I will try to answer as well as possible

~Suddenly, once Nero finds out Epi doesn't have a case on him, now Epi seems more civ to him.

~That second statement, about peeps in the thread pointed out Quin's weird behavior, because Nero hadn't noticed it while reading through... does not sit well.


Fri Mar 11, 2016 10:42 am

Im still reading Ika as bad. I understand that we are unfamilliar with his playstyle, but I just can´t get around how it looks. Recently he has only posted pictures without words, not really been providing thoughts or reads and previously he would say stuff like "Just lynch this already". It doesn´t look to me like he is really trying. What townstyle exhibits that?

I guess he is working and doesn´t have time to respond properly, but if he doesn´t do it soon I will be voting for him.

~And now finally, back to thinking ida is bad.

[indiglo]

EBWOP - *ika

Ok, now my brain is tired. Off I pop.

[Scotty]

I just did a read of Quin.

He's a cop.

Hey Quin, what is your opinion of sig? Straight up.

[Scotty]

I realize this is easy for you to just brush off, but if and when sig is lynched and comes up as bad I will go back and use points from your posts if I have to. If he is bad, I see right through you.

[Quin]

I realize this is easy for you to just brush off, but if and when sig is lynched and comes up as bad I will go back and use points from your posts if I have to. If he is bad, I see right through you.

I have nothing to say. I look bad if he is maf, I still look bad if he's civ. I've been letting those who suspect sig deal with him on their own. I'm too biased to see anything in him worth lynching.