The Syndicate

Epignosis wrote:I don't agree with your case against llama. At the same time, I think you are a civilian for raising it.

My perspective is the same. I don't see llama in the same light, but I also understand where INH is coming from. One point he made that I agree with is that llama's hunter/blender distinction isn't especially useful since the "hunters" are all players who would meet that criteria in every game anyway.

llama's last game as a mafioso (Spirited Away)

Parallels: he only lived for one day phase in that game, but he was the most active player in the thread during that period. He is also proving to be pretty active in this game even if not quite to the same degree. This contrasts some of his town games in recent memory when his effort level has been lesser.

Contrasts: he employs less assertive language and seems a little less comfortable in Spirited Away than he does here.

Unfortunately that's the only semi-recent game I'm aware of. He was a killing indy in the 2015 GOC. He was a bit more assertive in that game and also relatively active (more comparable to his activity in this game), but he also didn't know other players' alignments.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:llama's last game as a mafioso (Spirited Away)

Parallels: he only lived for one day phase in that game, but he was the most active player in the thread during that period. He is also proving to be pretty active in this game even if not quite to the same degree. This contrasts some of his town games in recent memory when his effort level has been lesser.

Contrasts: he employs less assertive language and seems a little less comfortable in Spirited Away than he does here.

Unfortunately that's the only semi-recent game I'm aware of. He was a killing indy in the 2015 GOC. He was a bit more assertive in that game and also relatively active (more comparable to his activity in this game), but he also didn't know other players' alignments.

I don't think any of that is helpful.

Logan gets caught by other means. He's like the spider in the Legend of Zelda. You can't just stab him with your nice new sword. Only arrows will work.

Yeah that didn't really move my read either. I'll see what llama has to say to his accusers.

Epignosis wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:llama's last game as a mafioso (Spirited Away)

Parallels: he only lived for one day phase in that game, but he was the most active player in the thread during that period. He is also proving to be pretty active in this game even if not quite to the same degree. This contrasts some of his town games in recent memory when his effort level has been lesser.

Contrasts: he employs less assertive language and seems a little less comfortable in Spirited Away than he does here.

Unfortunately that's the only semi-recent game I'm aware of. He was a killing indy in the 2015 GOC. He was a bit more assertive in that game and also relatively active (more comparable to his activity in this game), but he also didn't know other players' alignments.

I don't think any of that is helpful.

Logan gets caught by other means. He's like the spider in the Legend of Zelda. You can't just stab him with your nice new sword. Only arrows will work.

Hopefully metaphors will do the trick as well.

That's not to say I wouldn't lynch him. I just think Day 1 is premature. If he is bad, let him stick around and talk.

Long Con wrote:

Epignosis wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:llama's last game as a mafioso (Spirited Away)

Parallels: he only lived for one day phase in that game, but he was the most active player in the thread during that period. He is also proving to be pretty active in this game even if not quite to the same degree. This contrasts some of his town games in recent memory when his effort level has been lesser.

Contrasts: he employs less assertive language and seems a little less comfortable in Spirited Away than he does here.

Unfortunately that's the only semi-recent game I'm aware of. He was a killing indy in the 2015 GOC. He was a bit more assertive in that game and also relatively active (more comparable to his activity in this game), but he also didn't know other players' alignments.

I don't think any of that is helpful.

Logan gets caught by other means. He's like the spider in the Legend of Zelda. You can't just stab him with your nice new sword. Only arrows will work.

Hopefully metaphors will do the trick as well.

That was a simile, you asshole.

I don't think DDL is a civilian either. I would lynch him.

Epignosis wrote:I don't think DDL is a civilian either. I would lynch him.

Whaddya got?

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Epignosis wrote:I don't think DDL is a civilian either. I would lynch him.

Whaddya got?

Well hold on a damn minute. Gotta click tabs and shit.

Mongoose: just FYI that your link to Elohcin's posts actually directs to Epi's.

Epignosis wrote:

Long Con wrote:

Epignosis wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:llama's last game as a mafioso (Spirited Away)

Parallels: he only lived for one day phase in that game, but he was the most active player in the thread during that period. He is also proving to be pretty active in this game even if not quite to the same degree. This contrasts some of his town games in recent memory when his effort level has been lesser.

Contrasts: he employs less assertive language and seems a little less comfortable in Spirited Away than he does here.

Unfortunately that's the only semi-recent game I'm aware of. He was a killing indy in the 2015 GOC. He was a bit more assertive in that game and also relatively active (more comparable to his activity in this game), but he also didn't know other players' alignments.

I don't think any of that is helpful.

Logan gets caught by other means. He's like the spider in the Legend of Zelda. You can't just stab him with your nice new sword. Only arrows will work.

Hopefully metaphors will do the trick as well.

That was a simile, you asshole.

Shit, I probably lost more points on that one. Rookie mistake.

Look at DDL's post history. If you are lazy, here:

Then he bitches about this:

Dragon D. Luffy wrote:That said, I'm always in for voting for players who spent all game talking about game mechanics instead of hunting scum.

DDL didn't accomplish anything in his own posts, so why does he want to go after guys who talked mechanics?

Yeah, I'd vote DDL.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Mongoose: just FYI that your link to Elohcin's posts actually directs to Epi's.

She does whatever I ask her to, so no matter.

Fair. The last post there is the one I liked from DDL because I've known him to be willing to lynch people for reasons that I'd call more strategy-relevant than alignment-relevant. You're correct though that there is hypocrisy in that given his empty posts before that.

I recall a moment from A Mafia of Unfortunate Events in which something similar came up:
The former post there was his rationale for pursuing the lynch of inactive players (which ties to the strategy-relevant lynching/alignment-relevant lynching distinction I mentioned before), and he willfully granted that he was being hypocritical and didn't care. He was a civilian then.

Hola!

thellama73 wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

thellama73 wrote:Vote Sorsha. Locked In. Final Answer.

Are votes changeable?

No, which I rather wish I had remembered before casting mine.

This sounds like a thing I would do and say.

Copycat.

Sorsha wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Sorsha wrote:Llama jumped on my check in post literally two minutes after I posted it. My initial gut reaction was that it was a joke because I don't see how anything I said in that post could be found to be suspicious. So I responded with a joke. In hind sight, sure I should have made sure that he was actually serious about it but being jumped on like that right out of the gate isn't something I'm accustomed to.

I can understand. It's jarring for anyone to be facing an accusation so quickly after a game begins. His accusation came two minutes after your post, as you said, and then your joke response to that came 11 minutes after that. To me that looks a player who is briefly frozen by unexpected pressure searching for a way to approach it.

How about a player who is playing while at work and isn't actually sitting here staring at the game thread waiting on a reply?

I wasn't going to mention the timestamps until you brought them up first.

One question, Sorsha:

What is your read on llama?

I have a busy day with family people tomorrow and I don't know what kind of time I'll have around here. I'm going to cram a pile of reads in now and y'all can do with them whatever you may.

A Person

~ Four posts, all irrelevant. Somewhat comparable to GY!BE in which A Person made his fourth post on Night 1, and his posts were short and only barely relevant.

Willingness to lynch: Meh

Boomslang

~ Two posts, both irrelevant. He pledged to catch up this weekend, which leaves us where we are with him for today.

Willingness to lynch: Meh

Dragon D. Luffy

~ Four posts, one relevant. The relevant post is within the boundaries of his town meta. The pace of content generation is less than his town standard. These don't combine to generate inspiring prospects. Epignosis's observation of hypocrisy is valid.

Willingness to lynch: Worth considering

DrWilgy

~ Nothing.

Willingness to lynch: Meh

Elohcin

~ One post, relevant only to Day 0 poll.

Willingness to lynch: Meh

Epignosis

~ Heavily involved, effortful. His stances haven't been difficult to ascertain. I've lost interest in my previous "I guess" beef because the parallel to my own experience actually suggests a mindset of uncertainty -- suitable to a civilian in this game. He has been willing to both agree and disagree with separate ideas presented by others, and he has been the origin of other ideas.

Willingness to lynch: No

insertnamehere

~ First halfish of his post history is irrelevant, but it has turned sharply towards investigative effort since then. I think his suspicion of llama looks authentic.

Willingness to lynch: No

Long Con

~ His post count is nice, but I don't sense much direction in his hunting efforts particularly in the first half of that post history. It wasn't until his beef with Quin that his posts appeared to serve any potentially productive purpose. That beef itself isn't ideal either, as I think he was evasive of the core questions and also insight of Quin's conversation with me, and his explanations since that encounter haven't moved me.

Willingness to lynch: Worth considering

Made

~ Nothing

Willingness to lynch: Meh

Metalmarsh89

~ His fourteen posts seem to go nowhere. He threw an early accusation at llama and has not followed up. He joined Long Con in even briefly caring about the position of my username on the player list.

Willingness to lynch: Worth considering

MovingPictures07

~ Nothing

Willingness to lynch: Meh

nijuukyugou

~ One post, irrelevant

Willingness to lynch: Meh

Quin

~ Interrogative, accusatory, and effortful. I don't struggle to follow his mindset for the most part. His reads appear fluid and under authentic development.

Willingness to lynch: No

Scotty

~ His focus on mechanical details is a bit more narrow than I'd like, though I do think there's been sufficient confusion about the setup to justify it. I at least appreciate that he is involved, and comprehensive Day 1 reads have never been his thing.

Willingness to lynch: Would need a convincing argument

Sorsha

~ I don't feel she has handled pressure well. She may be a bit shellshocked having received such pressure so quickly and consistently; I still lean toward a negative read. I was given momentary pause by her evocation of WIFOM, specifically her enthusiasm about drawing a civilian role after a string of evil games. That inspiration was brief; I don't think it would be wise to relieve the pressure solely for that reason.

Willingness to lynch: Worth considering

thellama73

~ Provocative and confident. His behavior has generated a significant portion of the readable content available in this thread (from the direct responses to it from Sorsha and I to the suspicions about it fielded by Long Con and INH, etc...). I think llama is conscious of that potential gain as a civilian. His hasty trigger finger in a game where vote changeability had not been determined was foolhardy.

Willingness to lynch: Would need a convincing argument

To Long Con:
The reason I think there is a lot of civ on civ action this game is because I've seen it too many times before. The active, Gung-Ho baddie hunters attack one another, simply because there is more material there to attack, these attacks lead to NO Us, then confirmation bias, then tunneling, then a bunch fo dead civs. It's a pattern I see over and over again. How many times have SVS and I wasted days attacking each other when we were both civs? How many times has Epignosis done it? Assertive, analytical civilians tend to go after each other. Sure, there's a possibility thta a baddie is hiding among them, but at this early stage in the game, I think we will achieve better results by looking harder at the less active players who may be trying not to call attention to themselves.

To INH:
I'm sorry you don't like my read on Sorsha, but it is genuine. I think little things like tone and emoji use can be baddie tells, especially early in the game, and her posts have just rung incredibly false to me. Why not start off by putting pressure on her and seeing how she responds? So far, her responses have not ben encouraging to me.

You don't like my Hunters/Blenders list that's fine, but I was simply explaining how I view the game these days. In general (not always) I think the people who are making cases and trying to ferret out the bad guys are less likely to be nefarious than the ones trying not to get noticed.

To JJJ:
Regarding your meta analysis, I would just like to add that I went through a period of inactivity through much of 2016 and was unacceptably absent in many of the games I did sign up for. I just didn't have the time or energy to play those games properly. That was a phase that has now ended, so I wouldn't regard it as representative of my style. For more recent examples of me as a FEB, see the Burglaries section.

I also agree with the players saying that DDL sounds civ. He sounds civ to me too, particularly his post about game mechanics.

Made and MP have still not checked in.

I thought I was pegging Epi as Sorsha's running mate but he looks like he's putting a decent effort into hunting, so for now I'll back off.

I'm now unsure of Sorsha's alignment with her candid response, but then I would also respond in a similar manner if someone randomly voted me for not wearing the color blue (or so it feels like). She could still be bad and llama could very well be a pariahlpaca.

What about MM tho?

His first post, that llama is evil, is really his most substantive so far, though he's made only 1 post in day 1.

Metalmarsh89 wrote:

Epignosis wrote:Therefore I cannot be bad. Q.E.D.

Don't complain to me when you get killed Night 1.


So many WIFVOM angles here, how delicious.

This post is a joke post, but also raised my eyebrows because there aren't really WIFOM angles here. The logic doesn't make sense, and calling someone out for the potential of being NK'd N1 rubs me the wrong way.

I find that when MM is bad, he isn't afraid to jab at anyone- with his little pointed marmot teeth- just enough to make you go "hah hey that tickles, but also slightly hurts..Calm down, bucko"

My memory of his bad games are ingratiating himself with his baddie partners and playing the WIFOM game like he's Gene Rayburn in a pissing contest with a panelist in Match Game.

I dunno, he's super blendy and I think he could be bad.

Oh, and this seems like a civvy JJJ. His initial suspicions mirrored my own, and he's not afraid to get dirty with a few people already.

Question: would llama make a gambit of making a shoddy case and voting for his baddie partner Sorsha's at all? Is that something he's wont to do?

I also like INH right now. His actions so far at least mirror roughly his civ game in ASoUE. Especially the "Elucidation of Llama". Cut and dry, like a shriveled corn stalk.

Well, I disagree with most of JJJ's outlooks, right down to being more willing to lynch me than all his "meh" reads. It makes my inner voice say "Fuck, fine, maybe I'll just not participate next time so JJJ will get off my damn back!" Then my outer-inner voice says "Shut up, and quit being a whiny bitch or I'll replay that time you had to drown the hamster!" Then my inner voice shuts up and goes " ". Long story long, I thought JJJ was ass-backwards in ASoUE Mafia and he was Civ, so I won't come back hard on him this time.

Scotty wrote:I find that when MM is bad, he isn't afraid to jab at anyone... My memory of his bad games are ingratiating himself with his baddie partners and playing the WIFOM game.

Is that what you find? Is that what you remember? I don't find and remember that, so I am not inclined to straight-up believe you. That said, I do like the angle here, and if it catches a bad marmot, then I applaud your memory. What would it take to get a little citation on these things? A little citation goes a long way.

While I still think Sorsha is the best bet for today, and there has been a lot of good content from the high posters, I urge you all not to forget about the lurkers. What has Elohcin contributed so far? Where the hell is MP? Blooper and Wilgy seem uncharacteristically quiet. Let's put some pressure on these people and not give them a free pass.

Long Con wrote:Well, I disagree with most of JJJ's outlooks, right down to being more willing to lynch me than all his "meh" reads. It makes my inner voice say "Fuck, fine, maybe I'll just not participate next time so JJJ will get off my damn back!" Then my outer-inner voice says "Shut up, and quit being a whiny bitch or I'll replay that time you had to drown the hamster!" Then my inner voice shuts up and goes " ". Long story long, I thought JJJ was ass-backwards in ASoUE Mafia and he was Civ, so I won't come back hard on him this time.

Do you have a method we could employ to determine who among those "meh" reads is more worth lynching and who is less worth it? I am sure there are bad guys in that pile given the sheer number, but I couldn't begin to determine which ones.

I cannot figure out what game "ASoUE" refers too.

Long Con wrote:

Scotty wrote:I find that when MM is bad, he isn't afraid to jab at anyone... My memory of his bad games are ingratiating himself with his baddie partners and playing the WIFOM game.

Is that what you find? Is that what you remember? I don't find and remember that, so I am not inclined to straight-up believe you. That said, I do like the angle here, and if it catches a bad marmot, then I applaud your memory. What would it take to get a little citation on these things? A little citation goes a long way.

What Scotty describes was generally true of an evil Marmot in ROTTK. Scotty: are you saying he looks that way in this game too?

I'm caught up. I'm just going to blame Marmot friend for my troubles.

Someone interact with me.

A Series of Unfortunate Events Mafia.

I don't have a system to determine which low posters are bad, besides lynch em all and let God sort em out...but I do have some sure-fire advice to increase your chances of lynching Mafia: don't lynch me.

Long Con wrote:A Series of Unfortunate Events Mafia.

I don't have a system to determine which low posters are bad, besides lynch em all and let God sort em out...but I do have some sure-fire advice to increase your chances of lynching Mafia: don't lynch me.

Same tbh

DrWilgy wrote:I'm caught up. I'm just going to blame Marmot friend for my troubles.

Someone interact with me.

Hey Wilgy...pretend stuff people said to each other was said to you, and respond.

Interacted!

Long Con wrote:

DrWilgy wrote:I'm caught up. I'm just going to blame Marmot friend for my troubles.

Someone interact with me.

Hey Wilgy...pretend stuff people said to each other was said to you, and respond.

Interacted!

But there's too much to address. The only two I'm concerned with atm are Llama and Epi, but Epi has already addressed the post that gaveme the heebie jeebies.

Specifics LC!

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Mongoose: just FYI that your link to Elohcin's posts actually directs to Epi's.

Oooh, thanks for that heads up, sug. I will QC all the other links tonight as well as add a link for Dr Wilgy.

Mongoose wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Mongoose: just FYI that your link to Elohcin's posts actually directs to Epi's.

Oooh, thanks for that heads up, sug. I will QC all the other links tonight as well as add a link for Dr Wilgy.

Yay me!

DrWilgy wrote:

Long Con wrote:

DrWilgy wrote:I'm caught up. I'm just going to blame Marmot friend for my troubles.

Someone interact with me.

Hey Wilgy...pretend stuff people said to each other was said to you, and respond.

Interacted!

But there's too much to address. The only two I'm concerned with atm are Llama and Epi, but Epi has already addressed the post that gaveme the heebie jeebies.

Specifics LC!

What? No I'm not playing your game for you. I'm going to work now.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Sorsha wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Sorsha wrote:Llama jumped on my check in post literally two minutes after I posted it. My initial gut reaction was that it was a joke because I don't see how anything I said in that post could be found to be suspicious. So I responded with a joke. In hind sight, sure I should have made sure that he was actually serious about it but being jumped on like that right out of the gate isn't something I'm accustomed to.

I can understand. It's jarring for anyone to be facing an accusation so quickly after a game begins. His accusation came two minutes after your post, as you said, and then your joke response to that came 11 minutes after that. To me that looks a player who is briefly frozen by unexpected pressure searching for a way to approach it.

How about a player who is playing while at work and isn't actually sitting here staring at the game thread waiting on a reply?

I wasn't going to mention the timestamps until you brought them up first.

One question, Sorsha:

What is your read on llama?

I don't think llama is bad, wouldn't vote for him. He's just wrong.

@LC and Wilgy: Would either of you be down for a Llama lynch?

He's the most solid negative read I have right now, so I'm inclined to vote in his direction.

insertnamehere wrote:@LC and Wilgy: Would either of you be down for a Llama lynch?

He's the most solid negative read I have right now, so I'm inclined to vote in his direction.

Mine as well, but my read is entirely tone. What triggers your suspicion inh?

Scotty wrote:Made and MP have still not checked in.

I thought I was pegging Epi as Sorsha's running mate but he looks like he's putting a decent effort into hunting, so for now I'll back off.

I'm now unsure of Sorsha's alignment with her candid response, but then I would also respond in a similar manner if someone randomly voted me for not wearing the color blue (or so it feels like). She could still be bad and llama could very well be a pariahlpaca.

On what basis did you think you were accomplishing this? You are acting like Sorsha's guilt is a foregone conclusion.

Why does my effort exonerate me from being Sorsha's teammate? Do I put not effort into hunting when I am bad? What does my effort have to do with Sorsha?

Long Con wrote:Well, I disagree with most of JJJ's outlooks, right down to being more willing to lynch me than all his "meh" reads. It makes my inner voice say "Fuck, fine, maybe I'll just not participate next time so JJJ will get off my damn back!" Then my outer-inner voice says "Shut up, and quit being a whiny bitch or I'll replay that time you had to drown the hamster!" Then my inner voice shuts up and goes " ". Long story long, I thought JJJ was ass-backwards in ASoUE Mafia and he was Civ, so I won't come back hard on him this time.

In what universe did JaggedJimmyJay participate in A Mafia of Unfortunate Events?

DrWilgy wrote:

Long Con wrote:

DrWilgy wrote:I'm caught up. I'm just going to blame Marmot friend for my troubles.

Someone interact with me.

Hey Wilgy...pretend stuff people said to each other was said to you, and respond.

Interacted!

But there's too much to address. The only two I'm concerned with atm are Llama and Epi, but Epi has already addressed the post that gaveme the heebie jeebies.

Specifics LC!

What post was that and why did it bother you?

Epignosis wrote:To INH:

I don't know the technical specifications of your avatar. Do what you will.

I don't agree with your case against llama. At the same time, I think you are a civilian for raising it.

The gif is from the final episode of Twin Peaks.

I originally used the gif as my avatar on the NarutoForums where I signed up to play DDL and Soneji's massive game.

Here's the original:



Oddly enough, when I shrunk it in order to make it work on this site, it seemed to glitch out. I honestly quite like it, as it ironically really suits the context of the episode the gif is taken from.

If it does twist other people's knickers, I will change it, though.

Back in game-land, I do find it odd that people aren't agreeing with my case, but failing to raise any real points against it, or suggesting a practical alternative.

DrWilgy wrote:

The last time Wilgy posted this face when someone didn't do what he wanted, he was bad.

DrWilgy wrote:

insertnamehere wrote:@LC and Wilgy: Would either of you be down for a Llama lynch?

He's the most solid negative read I have right now, so I'm inclined to vote in his direction.

Mine as well, but my read is entirely tone. What triggers your suspicion inh?

Here ya go

@Epi this one.

Epignosis wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Epignosis wrote:It was an opportunity to take a jab at llama. You don't pass those up.

Understood.

Whaddya think of Sorsha?

She responded in a way I would have expected if she were good, I guess. When we were bad together last time, she came after me snottily. Last time when she was bad and I wasn't, she came after me snottily. llama and I think similarly, so maybe her response is an indication that she isn't bad.

Or maybe she's just snotty to me.

It's also been your general tone as well. It's off from what I'm used too.

Epignosis wrote:

DrWilgy wrote:

The last time Wilgy posted this face when someone didn't do what he wanted, he was bad.

You aren't wrong. What game was this though?

Linki - I remember that post. 1 second.

I have the worst feels for the following people:

MM- he's been present and posting but not saying much game relevant. I know that's typical Marmot, especially day one but I think there has been comment worthy material here that I'd expect him to weigh in on.

Scotty- I don't like how he so easily jumped on llamas case on me. It was still day zero and he was already prepping to jump on a Sorsha lynch-train. Very unlike Scotty who is normally a low/no poster voter, especially day one.

DDL- maybe he's just busy but he was a big poster early in ASOUE as a civ and hasn't been yet here. He's been here but like Epi pointed out, hasn't said much.

A Person, blooper, Eloh- no content but have posted

insertnamehere wrote: Back in game-land, I do find it odd that people aren't agreeing with my case, but failing to raise any real points against it, or suggesting a practical alternative.

It's a well thought out case but what it comes down to for me is: If llama is bad why would he go after me like that? He would know I'm civ and what good would going balls to the wall and lynching a civ like that on day one do?

Sorsha wrote:

insertnamehere wrote: Back in game-land, I do find it odd that people aren't agreeing with my case, but failing to raise any real points against it, or suggesting a practical alternative.

It's a well thought out case but what it comes down to for me is: If llama is bad why would he go after me like that? He would know I'm civ and what good would going balls to the wall and lynching a civ like that on day one do?

He didn't expect it to work, and he didn't expect you to be lynched. Most people won't blindly follow a guy who says "LYNCH THIS DUDE" for no reason, and Llama had to know that. "Balls to the wall" seems like an exaggeration.

It's just doing stuff in order to make it look like he's doing stuff.