2016 Game of Champions - Beach [Night 2]

[Marmot]

Julie (and SVS too), it's not that I wanted to talk about people from the other thread, it"s that I had a specific question for the sig-suspectors who also suspextend Soneji.

Because you guys are following Golden's vote around, you being the primary one.

Question to everyone on the beach: who would you lynch if everyone was on the poll and not just the Sand-Surfers?

Anyone pushing discussion of the other thread as opposed to this one.

*TempvoteMarmot*

Looks like we have some nice discussion. Can someone explain the process to me like I am a 6 year old?

Aw thanks. Remember that one time in the 2014 GoC when I tempvoted you and was lynched for it?

I notice some folks growing wary of Soneji. I know a lot of people are suspicious of sig (myself included). The question I asked llama is one I have for everyone in that same category.

SVS, why did you ask me about Made's memory? And now, why do you suspect me for answering such a seemingly unimportant question?

[thellama73]

Gahhh! Booms was here but didn't defend himself or add anything to the discussion. I don't know how to read that. If he was bad wouldn't he have said something?

Llama same question I had for MM last night - can you talk about the cheerleader? I didn't play that game so I have no idea how to rate him/her.

My memory of that game is extremely hazy. I don't think I ever fully understood how the process worked or what it did. I fear I have no insight to offer you on this point.

[Marmot]

How did autocorrect come up with suspextend. Haha...

[juliets]

I understand what you're saying now MM, thanks.

llama, hate to keep pushing on the cheerleader but I'm just trying to understand. Why did you rate him/her as GTH bad if the game is kind of hazy for you?

[Marmot]

Who was mac?

Hey bea-voters! How sincereally do you find posts like this one from bea?

[bea]

Because you guys are following Golden's vote around, you being the primary one.

Question to everyone on the beach: who would you lynch if everyone was on the poll and not just the Sand-Surfers?

I'd probably still go with Sig, but I'm increasingly comfortable with my vote for Soneji.

Does it make a difference to you that Soneji voted for sig on Day 1?

Linki: I'll read you later.

Easy distancing perhaps? People voting for each other in a thread with changeable votes doesn't mean much for gauging connection.

Linki @Prisoner. OK.

I have said what she did, but am happy to do so again. In the other thread, she made one big post where she said she felt Made and Wilgy were getting a bad rap. She did this without pointing fingers at anyone who might be giving them a bad rap, though. Then she wrote several sentences saying nothing, and said that she felt OK about me, LC and (???). "Same old same old" kind of thing. No negative opinions, or even remotely critical, about anyone. Bea and I have a long history. I want to know where she is at. So far I am not sure she is at the same place I am. I am not sure she has expressed even one remote suspect. Bea is always polite, but Bea does not shrink from speaking her mind, even if it is in a very passive way.

Bea is a huge question mark for me.

I'm sorry svs. The crud is kicking my ass in the most major way. I'm sleeping more than not. Wiped of energy. Etc etc. I lost all of monday and most of tues. I tried to come in when i was awake tues and lost tye thread so i missed most.....well....everything that happened after my last post. I worked yesterday, made dinner and was in bed again within an hour of being home. I know it doesnt give you much at the moment.

I do want to clarify though that I didn't say i trusted lc. Cuz you know and I know how hard it is for me to get there. I it seemed golden thought he was on the up and up and I was curious about that because I tend to trust both he and you.

[S~V~S]

Julie (and SVS too), it's not that I wanted to talk about people from the other thread, it"s that I had a specific question for the sig-suspectors who also suspextend Soneji.

Because you guys are following Golden's vote around, you being the primary one.

Question to everyone on the beach: who would you lynch if everyone was on the poll and not just the Sand-Surfers?

Anyone pushing discussion of the other thread as opposed to this one.

*TempvoteMarmot*

Looks like we have some nice discussion. Can someone explain the process to me like I am a 6 year old?

Aw thanks. Remember that one time in the 2014 GoC when I tempvoted you and was lynched for it?

I notice some folks growing wary of Soneji. I know a lot of people are suspicious of sig (myself included). The question I asked llama is one I have for everyone in that same category.

SVS, why did you ask me about Made's memory? And now, why do you suspect me for answering such a seemingly unimportant question?

A few posts before you posted this I said:

I see people were doing GTH reads, and I don't want to be left out.

bea - BAD. Has she contributed anything yet?
Boomslang - GOOD
Cheerleader - BAD
Donna Meagle - BAD
Golden - GOOD
John Coltrane - BAD
juliets - GOOD
Made - GOOD
Metalmarsh - GOOD
thellama73 - SUPATOWN
Scotty - GOOD
Soneji - BAD
SVS - ALWAYS GOOD UNTIL DAY 3

So if I die before Day 3 does that mean you killed me?

And I just realized when reading back that I *asked* MM what he thought about Mades saying I had 31 posts, he didn't just volunteer that info. So clarifying that.

Linki @Jules, hrm.

And I asked you becasuse I wanted to hear your answer.

[S~V~S]

Also, gotcha bea. I seem to recall a post, the same one where you said Made and Wilgy were getting a bad rap, you said that me, LC and someone else seemed same old. I thought the post you are talking about was a different post, but I could be wrong.

You read enough to find that post, have you any suspicions?

[thellama73]

I understand what you're saying now MM, thanks.

llama, hate to keep pushing on the cheerleader but I'm just trying to understand. Why did you rate him/her as GTH bad if the game is kind of hazy for you?

I actually think the Cheerleader is probably neither bad nor good, but in a GTH read you can't sit on the fence, and I distrust mysterious and enigmatic accounts who can apparently vote to lynch us, even though we know nothing about them.

[juliets]

I understand what you're saying now MM, thanks.

llama, hate to keep pushing on the cheerleader but I'm just trying to understand. Why did you rate him/her as GTH bad if the game is kind of hazy for you?

I actually think the Cheerleader is probably neither bad nor good, but in a GTH read you can't sit on the fence, and I distrust mysterious and enigmatic accounts who can apparently vote to lynch us, even though we know nothing about them.

Ok, thanks -

[bea]

I admit to some skimming, but i want to look more llama feels a bit like he is going with the flow. I dont understand why people are voting boom at all. And Id like to look back at the talks with made and jc. Im working on it but driving to work right now.

[S~V~S]

Could we have two silencers? Unlikely, and he WAS in here earlier and said nothing. Plus I don't recall him being all that chatty in the first thread. But I would rather not vote for hi without hearing from him.

Made, how many posts did Boomslang have in the main thread?

[juliets]

Could we have two silencers? Unlikely, and he WAS in here earlier and said nothing. Plus I don't recall him being all that chatty in the first thread. But I would rather not vote for hi without hearing from him.

Made, how many posts did Boomslang have in the main thread?

I'm not the math whiz Made is but I can tell you I remember 3: a Soviet Russia joke, answers to DH's questions, and his randomized vote post for Long Con. He voted for the beach so he may have had a post there that I just don't remember. I remember the others because I was eyeing him and even went and looked up two other games to see how he posted there in early days. His posts in those two games at least showed engagement with the topics though he did not post much in either game. I'm nervous about him being here and not posting though. I agree that it's unlikely that there's a second silencer but could there be a role that mimics the powers of other players and last night he/she mimicked the silencer?

[juliets]

It just occurred to me though if we have a mimicer why hasn't Boomslang voted like Golden did to show us he is silenced?

[thellama73]

I notice a pile of votes on Boomslang. Can someone refresh me on that case? Is it just because he's absent?

[juliets]

I notice a pile of votes on Boomslang. Can someone refresh me on that case? Is it just because he's absent?

For me it's because none of his posts in the game indicated agreement with people, suspicions, or in any way engaged with the topics of the game. I just made a post ^ that talked about what he posted that I can remember. I looked at two of his other games and though he was quiet he at least was posting on game related subjects.

As I indicated above though I am nervous that he's been here but didn't post. It seems to me if someone is bad they would at least post something to try and keep from taking votes. I'm seriously considering moving my vote, it's just a matter of who to move it to.

On another subject I went to the game the Process was in and found that the civs had to destroy the Process to win. That tells me the Process was a bad entity and it seems like that would extend to the cheerleader as well. I could be wrong about that last part though since I'm not clear on those roles that were part of the Process other than what Scotty has posted.

[Akemi Homura]

voting for Made

The working theory in these GTH exercises is that baddies tend to name more good/civ reads, perhaps because they are nervous about calling out players who they know are town. This makes me look at Made more questioningly.

I feel like there is a flaw in this logic. As a counter question, if there's four baddies in this group, and everyone feels like the other group is badder, then how many baddies are in that group, and how many baddies are there over all?

What is the flaw in this logic?

[Akemi Homura]

On another note, every single one of us who shared GTH reads listed Bea as a baddie read. Like I said earlier, giving the results staggered like we did opens things up to manipulation from bad players coming in late, but still, the results are the results. If we were voting solely based on that exercise, Bea would be a slam dunk lynch. That is not to say I think we should lynch her today (I'm not sure we should at all), but it's something worth discussing. Obviously the most important thing is Bea herself finding the time to play with us today.

[S~V~S]

I notice a pile of votes on Boomslang. Can someone refresh me on that case? Is it just because he's absent?

While I was on break did you moderate your general "Death to Low Posters" stance?

[Scotty]

I want to hear more from Bea & Boom (sounds like a trendy hipster brand name for maybe soaps or lotions, lol)

ebwop,

I also want to do a hard reread of Epi if we get the other thread back. I found him to be an unexpected kill since it would have been fairly easy to drum suspicion on him. When I made the post I made about how he should not be ruled out as bussing Mac, it was becasue I was having a hard time doing that myself. I could totally see Mac coming into his chat (especially if there is only one big bad team, it's easier to bus someone) saying he could not play, and to go for the cred. It is something I was able to see him and Epi pulling off. More than one person agreed with me iirc, even though they, like me, were reading Epi as civ. Were I on that team, I might have said, let's let SVS drum up suspish on Epi, lynch him, then lynch her for lynching him.

So my thought is that Epi must have had one or more of Macs teammates in his sights which would be why they killed him. So I want to read back on him.

Does anyone remember his post Mac suspects?

Yeah I was one of those people. I had a theory that if Epi was bad, a few of the other early trainers were as well. Since that was not the case, mafia must have really been scared of Epi, so I don't remember who else Epi had suspected besides me. I was in his sights for the beginning, which eventually petered out for Mac. It's totally WIFOM but I wouldn't have killed Epi yet if I were bad.

[thellama73]

I notice a pile of votes on Boomslang. Can someone refresh me on that case? Is it just because he's absent?

While I was on break did you moderate your general "Death to Low Posters" stance?

I'm not as gung ho about it as I used to be, partly because I've lately been having some pretty good success with vote and interaction analysis, which you can;t really do with no shows.

[Akemi Homura]

Is there more to the Soneji case than his denouncement of meta-analysis? Because I can't vote for him if that's it.

[juliets]

I admit to some skimming, but i want to look more llama feels a bit like he is going with the flow. I dont understand why people are voting boom at all. And Id like to look back at the talks with made and jc. Im working on it but driving to work right now.

bea, there were no "talks" with me and made. He indicated he felt one of my posts was "off" and I addressed the areas of my post that sounded off to him. That's all there was to the interaction.

[Soneji]

ebwop,

I also want to do a hard reread of Epi if we get the other thread back. I found him to be an unexpected kill since it would have been fairly easy to drum suspicion on him. When I made the post I made about how he should not be ruled out as bussing Mac, it was becasue I was having a hard time doing that myself. I could totally see Mac coming into his chat (especially if there is only one big bad team, it's easier to bus someone) saying he could not play, and to go for the cred. It is something I was able to see him and Epi pulling off. More than one person agreed with me iirc, even though they, like me, were reading Epi as civ. Were I on that team, I might have said, let's let SVS drum up suspish on Epi, lynch him, then lynch her for lynching him.

So my thought is that Epi must have had one or more of Macs teammates in his sights which would be why they killed him. So I want to read back on him.

Does anyone remember his post Mac suspects?

I have found that mafia who leave good players alive in the hopes that town will do their dirty work for them get burned by that decision the majority of the time. The truly optimal move is to just off them. Kill motivation can be a good method of scumhunting but this early on, likely to be too WIFOM to go off of.

As for a GTH, everyone is bad in my eyes until they flip otherwise

[Scotty]

Ok @SVS and @Juliets
Ima try and break this down.
And here's the thread for reference: http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... =28&t=1051

So the Process is a separate team irrespective of civs and mafia. Let's call them "independent". The Process has no killing power, but it does have little 'tendrils' in the form of sock puppets that it can summon once a night. Last night, it summoned the Cheerleader, a Process Element, which has no voting power but can protect a Process element from night actions. If we lynch the Cheerleader, we will remove that role/element/tendril from the game. But tonight, and every night thereafter, the Process can summon another one of its possible tendrils either way (including Fetch, Man, Snapshot, etc.)

As the game Transistor game dictates,

The Process itself is immune to Kill ( ), and must be lynched to die. If The Process is lynched, all residual processes will die.

So when doing the GTH read and listing Cheerleader as BAD or GOOD is just not true. It's on its own team. It is neither bad or good. Whoever the Process is, will probably need to be lynched later rather than sooner. If process elements start piling up without us lynching them, and they're causing havoc in the thread, then we should probably hunt for the player playing the Process.

Does that better explain things?


What makes me slightly weirded out is: if all of this is a reflection of Transistor, why would the Process summon the Cheerleader first? There are no other elements to protect, and there is already an element that is even more benign than this: (Operator). I'm unsure that if I were the Process, I would be using the doctor at the get-go. Really has me second guessing if JJJ and Daisy accounted for people like me to expect something from this Process when in reality, maybe the Process is a mafia team after all, and the Cheerleader in this game has voting power.
I want to see what happens tomorrow with an extra summoned tendril before making any more assumptions.

[Scotty]

Also to reiterate: I still think the most likely candidate for the Process is Prisoner.

He has had no mention at all of the Cheerleader in discussion, and has been actively avoiding talking about t as if it's old news. The only mention comes with the GTH read:

Cheerleader - MYSTERY ELEMENT, GOOD

How nice to call it a good mystery element without talking about it at all prior. My calling him out early on was swept under the rug, and there is no fire for the prisoner to solve that little Pom Pom problem.

That being said, I'm satisfied with his involvement to the game thus far and if it helps catch baddies, then I'm all for leaving him alone for the time being.

[Akemi Homura]

From what I have observed, it does not appear that any (or at least not many) roles have been directly copied from past games. It seems they are mostly just based on games from the last calendar year, not ripped directly from them.

[Scotty]

From what I have observed, it does not appear that any (or at least not many) roles have been directly copied from past games. It seems they are mostly just based on games from the last calendar year, not ripped directly from them.

Ok sure.

Then what do you make of Cheerleader?

[Akemi Homura]

Also to reiterate: I still think the most likely candidate for the Process is Prisoner.

He has had no mention at all of the Cheerleader in discussion, and has been actively avoiding talking about t as if it's old news. The only mention comes with the GTH read:

Cheerleader - MYSTERY ELEMENT, GOOD

How nice to call it a good mystery element without talking about it at all prior. My calling him out early on was swept under the rug, and there is no fire for the prisoner to solve that little Pom Pom problem.

That being said, I'm satisfied with his involvement to the game thus far and if it helps catch baddies, then I'm all for leaving him alone for the time being.

See my post directly below this one. I am not as concerned about the Process as you are, yeah. If the Cheerleader is still around tomorrow I'll question it a bit more. Right now it's just a harmless little buzzing noise in the corner.

[Akemi Homura]

From what I have observed, it does not appear that any (or at least not many) roles have been directly copied from past games. It seems they are mostly just based on games from the last calendar year, not ripped directly from them.

Ok sure.

Then what do you make of Cheerleader?

see the post directly below this one

[juliets]

Ooooh ok Scotty. I think I see now. And yeah, it's odd that the cheerleader is here but there are no process elements to protect. I'll discount the cheerleader for the rest of the day.

Made, I have two things for you in looking over your posts. First, can you explain what you meant in the underlined portion?

Ok, so I do not know SVS's meta but she's reading really lowkey to me. Like from the games i remember she's been very much at the forefront of baddie hunting and theory making and stuff and things, but day 1 and so far during beach day, she seems to be throwing ideas in thread with relatively isolated back and forth. I didn't look at her day 1 post ISO but she did have the same number of post as me during day 1 (31) which i felt i was personally lacking relative to my typical standard. Given it's probably has been like 2 years since I've played with her, I wanted to point this out.

Also, you said in another post that you didn't vote for Mac based on the meta analysis, that you had another case on him. Since you voted at the same time as the meta analysis was going on I assumed thats why you had voted him. What was that case or reason you voted for him if it wasn't that?

Finally, I mentioned it before but just a reminder, could you explain why you wanted us to look at people in the other thread?

[Akemi Homura]

I did note that the Cheerleader is currently voting for Made along with Soneji and myself. That gave me a moment of pause.

[S~V~S]

I just checked, my role is word for word. Maybe it's a mix, since Macs wasn't even an actual role?

And thanks for the explanation, Scotty. Maybe she can protect whoever has the process role? The player?

[juliets]

I just checked, my role is word for word. Maybe it's a mix, since Macs wasn't even an actual role?

And thanks for the explanation, Scotty. Maybe she can protect whoever has the process role? The player?

My role is also word for word.

[Akemi Homura]

I just checked, my role is word for word. Maybe it's a mix, since Macs wasn't even an actual role?

And thanks for the explanation, Scotty. Maybe she can protect whoever has the process role? The player?

My role is also word for word.

"word for word" as in it is an exact copy of a role from a previous game?

[juliets]

I just checked, my role is word for word. Maybe it's a mix, since Macs wasn't even an actual role?

And thanks for the explanation, Scotty. Maybe she can protect whoever has the process role? The player?

My role is also word for word.

"word for word" as in it is an exact copy of a role from a previous game?

Yes for me.

[thellama73]

Is there more to the Soneji case than his denouncement of meta-analysis? Because I can't vote for him if that's it.

There's a little more to it. I initially noticed Soneji for his avoidance of mentioning Macdougall, even when he was the central topic of discussion. The meta comment combined with that observation to form my suspicion, as I think baddies often forget to talk about one another.

[Akemi Homura]

Is there more to the Soneji case than his denouncement of meta-analysis? Because I can't vote for him if that's it.

There's a little more to it. I initially noticed Soneji for his avoidance of mentioning Macdougall, even when he was the central topic of discussion. The meta comment combined with that observation to form my suspicion, as I think baddies often forget to talk about one another.

I find this slightly more compelling. I am feeling good about this Made thing right now though, and I'd like to see how it plays out. It feels like my vote will come down between him and Bea.

[Soneji]

Do you think that I specifically forget to mention my teammates as mafia, Llama?

[thellama73]

Do you think that I specifically forget to mention my teammates as mafia, Llama?

Yeah.

[Marmot]

From what I have observed, it does not appear that any (or at least not many) roles have been directly copied from past games. It seems they are mostly just based on games from the last calendar year, not ripped directly from them.

I take it your role is in the same boat?

I will say that mine is as well. It is based on a past game, but not taken verbatim from a past game.

[bea]

I admit to some skimming, but i want to look more llama feels a bit like he is going with the flow. I dont understand why people are voting boom at all. And Id like to look back at the talks with made and jc. Im working on it but driving to work right now.

bea, there were no "talks" with me and made. He indicated he felt one of my posts was "off" and I addressed the areas of my post that sounded off to him. That's all there was to the interaction.

Yea. I reread. Sorry for the delay. Phone battery died and i had to recharge. Just saw long linkie quotey posts where it seemed like he thoughy you were bad and i wanted to look at it more than my cursoury skim. I dont think you are bad jc. Not as sure about made.

[Marmot]

Is there more to the Soneji case than his denouncement of meta-analysis? Because I can't vote for him if that's it.

There's a little more to it. I initially noticed Soneji for his avoidance of mentioning Macdougall, even when he was the central topic of discussion. The meta comment combined with that observation to form my suspicion, as I think baddies often forget to talk about one another.

Mac didn't really talk about anyone except the players who voted for him.

Soneji didn't post all that much in the Day 1 thread either.


I don't find it that surprising that one quiet player did not mention another quiet player.

[Soneji]

Do you think that I specifically forget to mention my teammates as mafia, Llama?

Yeah.

Would you like to display your research to the class?

[bea]

On another note, every single one of us who shared GTH reads listed Bea as a baddie read. Like I said earlier, giving the results staggered like we did opens things up to manipulation from bad players coming in late, but still, the results are the results. If we were voting solely based on that exercise, Bea would be a slam dunk lynch. That is not to say I think we should lynch her today (I'm not sure we should at all), but it's something worth discussing. Obviously the most important thing is Bea herself finding the time to play with us today.

I am trying. I can see why people would think so because I was inactive. I was/am sick. I was bound to my bed for days. The low content last cycle was not normal for me regardless of allignment and had everythijg to do with being sick. I ditched the sim saturday and havent been anywhere else i normally am as well.

[juliets]

I have determined I'm not going to vote Soneji today, at least based on my current information. I have been reading Turf Wars, a game where he was bad and I do see he's not afraid to vote for a teammate early (at least I think he voted for ika, a teammate early - thats what it looks like in the post). More importantly, part of the reason he was making me uneasy is he doesn't really seem engaged in this game but I found reference in the other game that he is generally cold and aloof. Finally, his low post count was of concern to me but I also found reference in the other game to the fact that he had posted there far more than he normally does so I gather he is generally reserved with his posting.

I may vote for Made.

[Marmot]

I have determined I'm not going to vote Soneji today, at least based on my current information. I have been reading Turf Wars, a game where he was bad and I do see he's not afraid to vote for a teammate early (at least I think he voted for ika, a teammate early - thats what it looks like in the post). More importantly, part of the reason he was making me uneasy is he doesn't really seem engaged in this game but I found reference in the other game that he is generally cold and aloof. Finally, his low post count was of concern to me but I also found reference in the other game to the fact that he had posted there far more than he normally does so I gather he is generally reserved with his posting.

I may vote for Made.

I wonder if Soneji will appreciate this meta research.

[juliets]

I have determined I'm not going to vote Soneji today, at least based on my current information. I have been reading Turf Wars, a game where he was bad and I do see he's not afraid to vote for a teammate early (at least I think he voted for ika, a teammate early - thats what it looks like in the post). More importantly, part of the reason he was making me uneasy is he doesn't really seem engaged in this game but I found reference in the other game that he is generally cold and aloof. Finally, his low post count was of concern to me but I also found reference in the other game to the fact that he had posted there far more than he normally does so I gather he is generally reserved with his posting.

I may vote for Made.

I wonder if Soneji will appreciate this meta research.

hahaha probably not -

[Akemi Homura]

From what I have observed, it does not appear that any (or at least not many) roles have been directly copied from past games. It seems they are mostly just based on games from the last calendar year, not ripped directly from them.

I take it your role is in the same boat?

I will say that mine is as well. It is based on a past game, but not taken verbatim from a past game.

I was locked away in solitary when all those mofos got to play their little prison games last time.

[Marmot]

From what I have observed, it does not appear that any (or at least not many) roles have been directly copied from past games. It seems they are mostly just based on games from the last calendar year, not ripped directly from them.

I take it your role is in the same boat?

I will say that mine is as well. It is based on a past game, but not taken verbatim from a past game.

I was locked away in solitary when all those mofos got to play their little prison games last time.

I was killed Night 1 in Prison Wars. That was bothersome.