The Syndicate

Hi asl?

agleaminranks wrote:Hi asl?

Hey there, stranger.

I'd never heard of the guy you were referencing, Rico, but it's clear you were dedicated to the joke. Well played, sir. The review was interesting too. I encourage you to make those at your leisure as time permits.

I'm giving their debut album a spin now just to see how it compares.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:I'm giving their debut album a spin now just to see how it compares.

That's a good idea. I'll do that as well before the week is over.

Their debut album The Village sounded a lot to me like a precursor to Beneath the Brine. By that I mean it sounded like a less refined expression of the same basic thing. Of course my perspective is influenced by having heard the latter first, so I don't know if I'd feel differently otherwise. I wouldn't say The Village was bad, but I did enjoy it less -- at least at first exposure.

Ooo fascinating review Rico!! The comparisons to other artists were especially insightful and interesting. Nice analysis.

Ricochet wrote:For your eyes only

Spoiler: show

Beautiful. I like how you differentiated yourself from Fantano by not having terrible opinions on everything and actually knowing what you are talking about.

As for the review, I felt the same way. I felt like they could do more with less, although they weren't doing anything "wrong" necessarily. The vox were fairly strong imo. I was reminded too of Colin Meloy (with less of, well, whatever it is Colin Meloy has (he has a lot of it)).

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Their debut album The Village sounded a lot to me like a precursor to Beneath the Brine. By that I mean it sounded like a less refined expression of the same basic thing. Of course my perspective is influenced by having heard the latter first, so I don't know if I'd feel differently otherwise. I wouldn't say The Village was bad, but I did enjoy it less -- at least at first exposure.

Having listened to it earlier this morning, I would generally agree with this assessment. I gave it a 3.0.

I listened to Beneath the Brine directly thereafter too, just finished it (my third listen). I'd say I'm sticking firm with 3.5. Definitely a solid discovery, though I echo some of the things both G-Man and Rico said in their reviews yesterday as well. I wouldn't even say, like Rico, that they're doing anything 'wrong'; rather, there's just something (or perhaps a few things really) keeping this from breaking beyond the "solidly awesome" area of my collection to "mindblowing".

Awesome stuff either way though, and thanks so much for sharing, nutella. I definitely will be eagerly awaiting a new album by them.

I probably won't be able to "officially" shift us to the second album, but any moderator can feel free to edit the OP. MP, go ahead and introduce your album whenever you're ready tomorrow.

Thanks, nutella, for kicking us off with a strong selection.

Hey, gang!

Fishmans is a band that I've recently become introduced to by DisgruntledPorcupine after seeing the band's name in passing on RYM. They have since been absolutely blowing my mind and have quickly ascended my all-time favorites list. Even though I regularly discover a lot of good music, it certainly isn't often that a band has had such an incredibly strong impact on me, so I felt I should share them with you as well.

I don't want to influence you all re: experiencing this album, but a few things that I wanted to let you know quickly nonetheless before you hit play:

- Warning: This is a two-CD album clocking in at just over 2 hours total. Tracks 1-11 comprise Disc 1. Tracks 12-14 comprise Disc 2.
- This is a live album cataloging the band's final performance on December 28th, 1998.
- Re: Youtube, the fourth track, “Thank You”, ends after 2:59, but the video goes a few minutes longer than that for some reason, so I’d suggest that just manually skip to the next song at that point unless you want to listen to a few minutes of unintended silence.
- This main vocalist does have an androgynous voice, but he is male.

As Epignosis and others who have been discovering music alongside me for years can attest to, generally I hate two music formats: cover songs and live albums. I would assert that this is the only live album I have heard that I would rate very favorably. I truly love this album.

Lastly, I apologize that it is such a time consuming album and will take up a substantial chunk of your time for each listen, but I really hope you all enjoy this, or even if not at the very least get something out of the performance. I look forward to all of your thoughts regardless. Thanks for giving me the opportunity to share this discovery with you; I'm incredibly excited to be doing so.

Click here to listen on Youtube

Just finished the second track and I like it so far. He *IS* androgynous, but not in the same way, The other guy felt somewhat pretentious to me, almost like the pitch variation was an affectation. I don't get that feel here.

And like you, generally I prefer studio albums (although there are exceptions), but this is pretty tight. Look forward to finishing it.

Add me to the list of people who generally hate live albums. I think the reason is that in rock, as opposed to jazz, most of the time a live album is nothing more than a sloppier, noisier, retreading of studio tracks rather than an opportunity to do something really different and interesting. There are certainly exceptions though.

My first impression is that there is a lot to enjoy about this album. Like SVS, I am only two tracks in. There is definitely a debt to [psychedelia, and dare I say, surf music. The tone of the lead guitar is really nice. I also appreciate the minimalist aspect of the repeated chord progressions, which is effective at inducing a dreamlike state.

Wow, Track 6 is really beautiful. The simplicity of the organ line, the classic chord progression, the tender, tentative vocals and synthesizer solo, the wandering, yearning bass, the reggae-like guitar on the upbeat. It all works brilliantly. Easily my favorite thing I've heard so far on this.

For such a pleasant album and performance, it has quite the sad backstory.

I gave this one a first listen on Thursday or Friday. My first listens are always gut-check reactions that guide me through additional listens. My initial thought was that the album lacks bite, but that should probably be expected from a genre called dream pop.

I was pleasantly surprised by the dub sound though. Made it feel almost quasi-jam band-esque in places. I think those tracks may end up scoring higher for me. I will have to focus more on the trajectory of each song with my next listen. The first time around, it was a noisy day at the office, so I couldn't get too absorbed into it. A surface-level listen says it's okay but ultimately not my kind of music. We'll see how the week goes for this one.

Count me as a live album detractor for the most part. I think I only own six or seven live albums and the only essential one I need to buy is the debut album of the MC5. It's funny how that works because up-and-coming bands get noticed for their live shows but most end up sounding lousy live because albums are so squeaky clean and over-produced these days. Then again, showmanship on stage can't be seen on an album. Maybe that's the missing piece.

Finished listening to it!

Overall, I quite liked it. My favorites were Track 6, discussed above, Track 7, with a piano part that makes my think of Henry Mancini scoring a 1960s comedy set in Italy, Track 11, which has everything I like about funk in it with none of the stuff I hate, and the epic performance of the entire Long Season album. The counterpoint between the violin and guitar near the end is brilliant.

Things I didn't like: while I appreciate a good space out as much as the next guy, I did find myself getting bored during some of the more groove-based tracks. And I apologize for how this sounds, but I have never been much of a fan of Japanese vocalists. They tend to sound weak, frail, and hesitant, in my opinion. It's one of the main things that prevents me from enjoying Can as much as I think I should. I would have preferred a vocalist with a little more power and confidence in his performance.

Very cool band. Thanks for the recommendation, MP!

This exists, if anyone is interested:

Hope you all love it. It's easily my favourite live album of all time, and possibly one of my favourite albums. Easy 10/10 (along with their studio album Long Season, which as you may have guessed contains a single track which is the final track of this live performance).

ゆらめき in the Air and Long Season are the easy favourite tracks for me. Both are masterpieces. なんてったの is an underrated one. Beautiful pop-flavoured song.

Just starting now. Pretty excited for this one -- I've listened to a fair bit of Fishmans since MP posted about them a couple weeks ago, and have really liked what I've heard.

Re: live recordings: I also tend to prefer studio recordings, but there are some exceptions; some live versions are far superior to album versions. One example that comes to mind is Paul Simon's Concert in the Park, especially "The Cool, Cool River" -- I love the live version of that song and the original album one just really pales in comparison. Also, same goes for all of Stop Making Sense -- obviously the visual component of the film and David Byrne's crazy antics go along with that, but even with audio only the SMS versions are definitely preferable to the album versions.

Yes, a live album CAN trump a studio version when the performance is especially inspired. In most cases, though, what seems like an exciting performance to a live audience ends up being too fast, too sloppy, or just not that interesting to someone listening at home in their living room. One must be careful not to conufse the adrenaline of a throng of fans all gathered in the same place at the same time with a great musical performance.

Finished first half. Not very much stands out to me but I mostly like the overall sound. Sometimes I find the vocals a little annoying/grating tbh, but in some places they fit very well. I'm really liking a lot of the bass parts in particular, as well as the drums. I also LOVE the violin in "In the Flight" (predictably; violin is the easiest way to my heart ).
I've heard (a version of) Long Season before and liked it, so looking forward to that in the second half.

Listen #2 in progress. I enjoy the chill vibe of the music but there's some weirdness going on (the recurring shouting/proclaiming of "Fishmans!" on track 1 for starters) plus the tone of the singers voice reminds me of Radiohead's whinier moments, which I still haven't managed to appreciate. I think I may end up being in the minority on this one unless this album grows on me something fierce over the next few days.

G-Man wrote:I think I may end up being in the minority on this one unless this album grows on me something fierce over the next few days.

The minority's not such a bad place to be. Especially when the majority is wrong.

I finally got a few minutes to watch ricos review of beneath the brine, but I'm sorry rico it's a little spooky and uncanny because you are kind of not so far from being my doppelgänger. Even my wife thinks you look like me.

I've no idea how you look, didn't you have an afro hairdo?

I also don't have a wife.

I'm a few tracks in to my first listen. I'm guessing given the run time it will only be one listen, but I'll see what happens.

I didn't know what I was in for, so now reading people calling it 'dream pop' makes sense. It was not at all what I expected from mp.

So - seven tracks in, and it's an enjoyable enough experience. The first track I didn't enjoy at all - too bizarre, and while the guitar riff felt like something that would be fun to play for the first minute or so, it never went anywhere. The whole thing felt bizarre to me, and perhaps the exact thing that others describe about the drawback of live albums. It feels like 'you have to be there'.

But then, something happens. It hits a funk vibe - almost brassless ska - and seems to stay right in that pocket. It feels like an outdoor concert on a summers Saturday afternoon - something to take a picnic to and allow it to wash over you. In fact, I might say it almost feels like a Japanese sound with New Zealand sensibilities - something like fat freddys drop. Actually it feels a lot like home in that sense. It fits like a glove. This even holds when it hits a more reggae vibe in track 6. (Would love to know what dp makes of freddys. Mp too now, for that matter.) The more the tracks passed, the more the comparison felt apt.

What does this mean? Well, it's still not for me, even though it's probably a close relative of things I would really adore. For me, up to track seven, there's a few things which hold it back from me being able to adore it. There's not really enough going on for me to get a huge amount out of it as a pure auditory experience (which, in a way, makes the fact it's a 'live album' feel oddly appropriate, since that's the setting I think I'd find myself enjoying it in most.) I'd be far more likely to listen to it while doing other things, rather than treat it as the thing that I am doing. Also, the vocalist doesn't really do it much for me. The last thing is that, for music like this, I find lyrics can really push it over the edge. Unfortunately, I don't speak Japanese. This has the advantage that no lyrical choices can be annoying (as I found last week with 'Love Don't Go') but also the disadvantage that it could just as well work as an instrumental for me.

I'm in the huge final track now (finishing my first listen). I think the album started very well, and I was enthusiastic about it probably through the first three tracks. The momentum didn't hold though and I eventually found myself checking my invisible watch a few times. I think the concept of the music is appealing and I appreciate the effort, but there are a couple things that I think hold it back from being something I like more:

~ The length. This might seem like a petty complaint, but I really do think it's too much. It's a recording of a live performance so I can understand, but I find myself assuming that listening to this for over 2 hours is more interesting at the live performance than in my living room. I would label very few double or triple studio albums among my favorites as well, because so much content is going to seem like it's dragging at points.

~ The language. I don't think the Japanese language sounds bad or is a problem, but it does prevent me from getting more into the music. I don't think lyrics are a critical component of making music enjoyable, but they certainly can help to elevate an album above "good". Without that element present in a way that I can understand it's just potential that can't be realized unless I go out and learn Japanese.

Some positives:

~ The music is diverse enough to keep my attention. If a release is going to be as long as this one is, it better not be filled with samey or repetitive themes/sounds and I think this one meets that criteria admirably.

~ The quality of the performance is strong. Remove all of the idle chatter from between tracks and the sounds of the audience and I may not realize this is a live album. I'm not quite as anti-live as some people here seem to be, but I also don't go out of my way to hear live recordings. I don't think this one suffered for being live at all.

~ The atmosphere of the music is agreeable. The best qualities of the "dream pop" aesthetic are done justice without the music seeming formulaic as it often does with that genre in my opinion.

Overall I'd say it was a positive experience to listen to the album, but it will also be difficult to motivate myself to do it again. This thing is obviously a 2+ hour commitment and I don't know when I am going to both have time for it and also want to hear it again -- the planets have to align very closely. That'll hinder its chances of growing on me. I may be able to listen to portions of it though; it isn't necessarily imperative to hear it all at once in proper order every time.

Thanks for sharing MP. It's an interesting addition to my pile of ratings. As I type this I am arriving into the latter half of "Long Season" and that piano is hitting the spot after such a long audio trip. A strong finish will be appreciated.

I will comment more later, but I just wanted to quickly recommend a listen to either Long Season or Uchu Nippon Setagaya (or both!) for any of you folks who might want to hear really strong Fishmans material in a shorter, studio recording format.

The former is the studio version counterpart to "Long Season", the last track on the live album, while the latter is the final Fishmans studio album (subsequent to Long Season) that was released just prior to this live performance. "In the Flight" and "Walking in the Rhythm" are the tracks that originate from this album.

Both albums are quite excellent.

And thanks to you all for giving this a shot. I know it was a behemoth of an album, and I can understand it might not be to everyone's tastes.

I could listen to Rico review things all day.

Ricochet wrote:

Spoiler: show

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:I could listen to Rico review things all day.

I know, right? Same here.

I gave the album a second spin today while I was doing other things. The two hours passed a little more smoothly this time; I didn't feel like I was just waiting for it to be over. At the same time I was paying less deliberate attention.

I can tell the interest in this thread dipped this week, judging by the views of vidya #2. Half of which were me rechecking it. Week 4, at this rate, will be me talking to myself.

Also, I'm a total noob at this, so if anyone has specific technical suggestios how to adjust the colors of my recording, lemme know. I can tell my ugly forehead is glowing. Thing is, if I edit the visual before trimming and such, the previewing in Sony Vegas will start lagging as heck.

Also #2, if this was supposed to be a "behemot of an album", wonder what that makes of the usual ambient juggernauts I listen to.

Rico, sorry I haven't listened yet but it's because I haven't listened to the album yet. You know I won't miss an opportunity to hear you talk.

I haven't listened to crap this week except my own sighing.

Rico, you are phenomenal. That was a step up from week one, which given how good week one was is impressive. Hilarious, thoughtful - and it made me think of the album slightly differently, so genuine impact too.

I will watch your video when I get around to it Rico. I think I will try to fit in a second listen first (and at some point those other albums MP suggested -- which I think I've heard at least parts of?)

I did like it alot having listened all the way through. Maybe becasue their sound was so unique, it did not have the drawbacks live albums usually have.

Someone earlier said they found the "fishman"s of the first track annoying; that was what actually hooked me to finish the album, I really liked the first track.

S~V~S wrote:I did like it alot having listened all the way through. Maybe becasue their sound was so unique, it did not have the drawbacks live albums usually have.

Someone earlier said they found the "fishman"s of the first track annoying; that was what actually hooked me to finish the album, I really liked the first track.

That was me. One day we'll see eye to eye on something

I'll try to give my full review tonight or tomorrow. Still trying to pick my top three tracks. To be brief, this album was odd but rather pleasant.

G-Man wrote:To be brief, this album was odd but rather pleasant.

I think that's where I landed too.

I couldn't possibly pick three tracks. It is very different to Beneath the Brine in how I would consume it in the future. Last week I could see a couple of tracks fitting into a regular playlist. This album is more likely to be the thing I stick on as a whole, occasionally, when I'm in a very particular mood.

Rico I thoroughly enjoyed your review, thank you for taking the time to do it.

I'm listening to Uchu Nippon Setagaya atm and I think I'm enjoying it rather more thoroughly than most of the live album. I definitely really enjoyed the first three tracks. I guess I liked the live version of In the Flight more though And I do love Long Season, so the live album has that going for it.

Finally got a chance to listen (it had to be done in spurts, unfortunately, as I don't have 2+ hours of uninterrupted listening time).

In a nutshell:

Dig the music, but the gimmicky vocals in places largely detract from the otherwise pleasant experience. The third piece was significantly enjoyable, particularly with the staggered bass line. Sometimes (as with the extended reggae piece), I feel like I'm listening to Muzak- I know that's rather disparaging to say, but that doesn't mean I don't enjoy it. It just doesn't move me. "In the Flight" was a good tune, and I found the slick violin glissando a swell turn on an otherwise repetitive number.

"Long Season" is worth the price of admission alone, however. 4/5 for that. 3/5 for the concert.

We've arrived at Sunday, so it's time to move on to our next album. Thanks again for sharing Fishmans, MP; I'm glad a number of people were able to get exposure to them including me.
Tell us about this psychedelic thang, Boomslang.

Cool cover art. I'll listen today.

Wow. I absolutely loved that. I loved the modal melodies, the raga-like rhythms, the use of guitar feedback, the droning organs, and mostly I loved how much fun the band seemed to be having playing together. Great find. I may pick up their albums.

I wish they were touring. I bet it would be an amazing live show.