The Syndicate

a2thezebra wrote:My town read of ika partially comes from his insistence on his reads and his total lack of hesitance to call people out for any little thing, similar to myself.

I don't even know what to think of ika anymore.

Shit, less than 45 minutes. I'm going to have to pick up the pace.

a2thezebra wrote:

Dyslexicon wrote:

a2thezebra wrote:My town read of ika partially comes from his insistence on his reads and his total lack of hesitance to call people out for any little thing, similar to myself.

I assume you read Golden as scum still. Who do you see as his teammates?

If not MM, then as much as I hate to say it, possibly MP. I'm not sure though and I definitely don't want to bite down on the latter conclusion too soon.

Don't worry, I'm not scum.

MM I think your math is off, but idk and I'm to tired to figure it out.

Could someone tell me the case on wilgy?

MovingPictures07 wrote:

a2thezebra wrote:

Dyslexicon wrote:

a2thezebra wrote:My town read of ika partially comes from his insistence on his reads and his total lack of hesitance to call people out for any little thing, similar to myself.

I assume you read Golden as scum still. Who do you see as his teammates?

If not MM, then as much as I hate to say it, possibly MP. I'm not sure though and I definitely don't want to bite down on the latter conclusion too soon.

Don't worry, I'm not scum.

And neither am I, so the whole thing will be moot.

I have very little doubt at this point that the idea we are baddie teammates will absolutely be debunked by the flip of whichever of us dies first.

sig wrote:MM I think your math is off, but idk and I'm to tired to figure it out.

Could someone tell me the case on wilgy?

He's throwing out suspicions but without substantiating any of them in reads or perspective.

VOTE INAWORDYES

I see you watching the thread. What's up?

Golden wrote:

Matt wrote:I don't agree with Zebra's assessment that Wilgy cares less what he looks like when he's good. I think Wilgy is completely random in any given game (he's told me as such, fyi).

I agree.

I'll add my agreement to this as well.

Golden wrote:

Marco wrote:If Wilgy is lynched and flips town, what leads are we looking at? I feel like his flip will give us the least information.

You seem focussed very much on the information we get 'if someone flips town'.

Yesterday, it was about it being three vs two.

This time, if its a two way battle between IAWY and Wilgy and the loser flips town, why would we get less information from Wilgy's townflip than IAWY's townflip?

FMPOV, Wilgy doesn't have much info attached to him. He has hardly spoken and most people keep taking about his "random" nature. We have a limited number of lynches. I'd rather use them to gain the most information.

Regardless, why not just answer the question? You might convince me to vote for him.

Dyslexicon wrote:Will PSI be replaced btw? I'm sick of having a non-participating player. It sucks for town no matter what his alignment is.

I'm wondering about this as well.

Dyslexicon wrote:I'm just going to wait for MP and get sane again.

sig wrote:MM I think your math is off, but idk and I'm to tired to figure it out.

Could someone tell me the case on wilgy?

I made those calculations with the assumption that mafia made the vig kill last night.

I mean just from an isolated stand, IAWY has more info attached to him than Wilgy going by just their engagement in the game. Then you have others constantly telling us he's very random.

Marco wrote:Regardless, why not just answer the question? You might convince me to vote for him.

I mean, I think your point that we don't get a lot from Wilgy if he flips town is completely fair and true. I can't think of anything. I just don't know that we get a lot from IAWY flipping town either.

I just don't know that we will get much from ANY town flips until we have at least one scum flip.

I wasn't really trying to convince you to vote Wilgy - I'm very comfortable knowing you are on the IAWY train.

Okay, finally caught up, though I did speedread those last couple of pages.

Current tally is 5-3-3 IAWY-Wilgy-Golden.

Despite some doubts that it's just his personality/meta, I still feel IAWY is the way to go, but I won't cry about Wilgy either. Especially when paired with those two, I will save Golden and do not think he should be lynched.

Metalmarsh89 wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:

Metalmarsh89 wrote:

sig wrote:

Metalmarsh89 wrote:

sig wrote:Either way vote for Ika he is such obvious mafia and I bet he killed Silver since she can read him, which is what I've been saying for awhile. Then we lynch MM two scum down.

If ika and I are both surely scum, why not leave your vote on me to keep me at 2 votes instead of putting each ika and I at 1 vote?

Oh that's a good point, but Ika is annoying me and you aren't so I wanna see him hang more right now. However, I'd be more then willing to switch to you before EOD.

You remind me of Matt in the GoC, and that guy was scum through and through.

Can you elaborate on this?

In the GoC, I was an Independent role (Ryuk from Death Note) and had an alternate win condition to get lynched on Day 1. I made an intentional scumslip to try and get lynched, and did several other things on Day 1 to support my lynchability. Matt called me out for it, but rode this suspicion until Day 9 or 10 when I was finally able to prove I actually wasn't scum. He followed this despite me acknowledging my intentions. Matt was mafia in that game.

Sig suspected me on Day 1 for one thing, and has been spinning my actions since that time. I think he is intentionally tunneling since I was a strong lynch candidate on Day 1.

I do want others' opinions on this because I do realize my view of this issue might be skewed.

Thanks for that, MM. I followed that game for a while there, but not intently, and then lost track of it for the second half so I wasn't exactly sure what you meant.

It's a possibility. Do you feel like sig is legitimately listening to anything you've had to say? If so, what instance(s)?

sig wrote:oh and one more point agaisnt IWAY he voted for Wilgy and I didn't like that vote or the reasoning for it. I also don't like how Matt jumped from the MM wagon onto that. I could see a MAtt/MM team.

Current mafia team thoughts.
Ika
MM
Matt
??? Maybe IWAY
IF IWAY is mafia
IWAY
MM/Matt
Ika
Zebra/matt

I normally wouldn't do this, but with no night posting I want to get my thoughts out in case I die. Also if we have a jailkeeper/doctor pleaseeeee protect me.

linki: Fine. But, I want him strung up!

I was getting info on someone I was null reading haha. I don't see why it's a strike against me unless you either didn't read or you're deliberately tunneling me to try and justify your suspicion once a I flip town.

I didn't like Wilgy's response because he said absolutely nothing of value and disappeared again, but I'm still in info-finding mode because I know I'm dying today regardless at this point, so let's move on to someone else in the null list since it won't make much of a difference to self-pres when I'm still getting lynched.

VOTE SIG

Heyo Sig! I don't like that you have a problem with my Wilgy vote. I also don't like that if my memory serves correctly, you have generally been sheeping other people's reads instead of your own content and just kinda going with the flow instead of actively scum hunting.

Can you give me anything that would prove otherwise? What are your current reads?

Golden wrote:It hasn't escaped my attention that, as a rule, I trust the people on the IAWY wagon a lot more than I trust the ones on the Wilgy wagon

I agree.

nice NO U vote,

why not? I don't agree with it.

I built a case on MM and Zebra. Plus some for Ika and Sloonie. I'm not sheeping at all.

Metalmarsh89 wrote:Based on the possible setups in play, we have a 44% chance that the civilians get a vig kill tonight, and an 11% chance that mafia still has one to use. But as we talked about already, in addition to the low odds that a civ vig made a kill last night, it doesn't make sense for a civilian to target Epignosis or Silverwolf.

Hence, if more than one person dies to night, I'd be ready to assume that one was done by a civilian.

Ooooh, stats.

Good to know.

MovingPictures07 wrote:

Golden wrote:It hasn't escaped my attention that, as a rule, I trust the people on the IAWY wagon a lot more than I trust the ones on the Wilgy wagon

I agree.

I don't like that sig guy he seems weird this game.

Inawordyes wrote:....

Are you bad?

Linki - Golden, MP, you thinkin' up reasons before IAWY's town flip on why you voted him? "Well, there were more trustworthy people on the IAWY wagon soooo...."

Matt wrote:Before a third person connects me and IAWY, I'd just like to say...

Nice to meet you, IAWY. Sorry you're about to get lynched apparently, while Wilgy is free to roam the town while killing us in our sleep

Heyo! Nice to meet you too! Sorry that we couldn't meet under better circumstances haha, but hey, if you happen to find yourself dead eventually, there's always Ghosties.

Here to stick till EOD.

Before you call me scummy for that, you should know I actually tend to show up before EOD a lot as town in MU games and the like.

Will read through for questions aimed at me, first. Meanwhile I can reply to questions you throw at me real time. I'll wrap up with reads on the wagons and hopefully on more people if I see I have time.

Inawordyes wrote:

sig wrote:oh and one more point agaisnt IWAY he voted for Wilgy and I didn't like that vote or the reasoning for it. I also don't like how Matt jumped from the MM wagon onto that. I could see a MAtt/MM team.

Current mafia team thoughts.
Ika
MM
Matt
??? Maybe IWAY
IF IWAY is mafia
IWAY
MM/Matt
Ika
Zebra/matt

I normally wouldn't do this, but with no night posting I want to get my thoughts out in case I die. Also if we have a jailkeeper/doctor pleaseeeee protect me.

linki: Fine. But, I want him strung up!

I was getting info on someone I was null reading haha. I don't see why it's a strike against me unless you either didn't read or you're deliberately tunneling me to try and justify your suspicion once a I flip town.

I didn't like Wilgy's response because he said absolutely nothing of value and disappeared again, but I'm still in info-finding mode because I know I'm dying today regardless at this point, so let's move on to someone else in the null list since it won't make much of a difference to self-pres when I'm still getting lynched.

VOTE SIG

Heyo Sig! I don't like that you have a problem with my Wilgy vote. I also don't like that if my memory serves correctly, you have generally been sheeping other people's reads instead of your own content and just kinda going with the flow instead of actively scum hunting.

Can you give me anything that would prove otherwise? What are your current reads?

You're going to die in less than 30 minutes. Why is this your post at this time? Where is your sense of urgency? Why aren't you fighting for your life and trying to gather people's trust/votes?

Golden wrote:

Marco wrote:Regardless, why not just answer the question? You might convince me to vote for him.

I mean, I think your point that we don't get a lot from Wilgy if he flips town is completely fair and true. I can't think of anything. I just don't know that we get a lot from IAWY flipping town either.

I just don't know that we will get much from ANY town flips until we have at least one scum flip.

I wasn't really trying to convince you to vote Wilgy - I'm very comfortable knowing you are on the IAWY train.

First, IAWY gives more info just going by numbers. Then you have the larger number of people with reads on IAWY. Then you have the tie from yesterday to look at. And the semi CFD. Is it just me who thinks IAWY unquestionably has more info attached to him?

Though you're right about town flips not giving us much, that doesn't mean we get no info from them.

Matt wrote:

Inawordyes wrote:....

Are you bad?

Linki - Golden, MP, you thinkin' up reasons before IAWY's town flip on why you voted him? "Well, there were more trustworthy people on the IAWY wagon soooo...."

Matt, I know you've replaced in, but I have plenty of interrogation and content suggesting my mafia read of IAWY, more than anyone else for that matter. I don't need excuses.

Matt wrote:

Inawordyes wrote:....

Are you bad?

Linki - Golden, MP, you thinkin' up reasons before IAWY's town flip on why you voted him? "Well, there were more trustworthy people on the IAWY wagon soooo...."

Sure, why not. It's not like I was one of the initiators of the IAWY bandwagon on day one or anything...

In all seriousness, though, I don't think I've ever blamed anyone else for why my vote is at the end of the day and nothing should ever be read as me excusing my vote on the basis of just 'trusting someone else'.

Zexy wrote:Here to stick till EOD.

Before you call me scummy for tha-

VOTE ZEXY

Metalmarsh89 wrote:VOTE INAWORDYES

I see you watching the thread. What's up?

I'm frantically catching up before EoD haha.

Marco wrote:

Golden wrote:

Marco wrote:Regardless, why not just answer the question? You might convince me to vote for him.

I mean, I think your point that we don't get a lot from Wilgy if he flips town is completely fair and true. I can't think of anything. I just don't know that we get a lot from IAWY flipping town either.

I just don't know that we will get much from ANY town flips until we have at least one scum flip.

I wasn't really trying to convince you to vote Wilgy - I'm very comfortable knowing you are on the IAWY train.

First, IAWY gives more info just going by numbers. Then you have the larger number of people with reads on IAWY. Then you have the tie from yesterday to look at. And the semi CFD. Is it just me who thinks IAWY unquestionably has more info attached to him?

Though you're right about town flips not giving us much, that doesn't mean we get no info from them.

I think all of this is correct. I'd sign off on it.

EBWOP: more than anyone else, as in, more than anyone else of my reads, not more than anyone else who suspects IAWY. I don't know about that.

MovingPictures07 wrote:

Inawordyes wrote:

sig wrote:oh and one more point agaisnt IWAY he voted for Wilgy and I didn't like that vote or the reasoning for it. I also don't like how Matt jumped from the MM wagon onto that. I could see a MAtt/MM team.

Current mafia team thoughts.
Ika
MM
Matt
??? Maybe IWAY
IF IWAY is mafia
IWAY
MM/Matt
Ika
Zebra/matt

I normally wouldn't do this, but with no night posting I want to get my thoughts out in case I die. Also if we have a jailkeeper/doctor pleaseeeee protect me.

linki: Fine. But, I want him strung up!

I was getting info on someone I was null reading haha. I don't see why it's a strike against me unless you either didn't read or you're deliberately tunneling me to try and justify your suspicion once a I flip town.

I didn't like Wilgy's response because he said absolutely nothing of value and disappeared again, but I'm still in info-finding mode because I know I'm dying today regardless at this point, so let's move on to someone else in the null list since it won't make much of a difference to self-pres when I'm still getting lynched.

VOTE SIG

Heyo Sig! I don't like that you have a problem with my Wilgy vote. I also don't like that if my memory serves correctly, you have generally been sheeping other people's reads instead of your own content and just kinda going with the flow instead of actively scum hunting.

Can you give me anything that would prove otherwise? What are your current reads?

You're going to die in less than 30 minutes. Why is this your post at this time? Where is your sense of urgency? Why aren't you fighting for your life and trying to gather people's trust/votes?

This. You should be more resistant, regardless of your assignment.

Zexy wrote:Here to stick till EOD.

Before you call me scummy for that, you should know I actually tend to show up before EOD a lot as town in MU games and the like.

Will read through for questions aimed at me, first. Meanwhile I can reply to questions you throw at me real time. I'll wrap up with reads on the wagons and hopefully on more people if I see I have time.

Reads! I need to know them!

haha, yeah, I skipped the first 55 pages sooooo

Thanks tho, just wanted to make sure ya all weren't doin' that.

Matt wrote:haha, yeah, I skipped the first 55 pages sooooo

Thanks tho, just wanted to make sure ya all weren't doin' that.

Let me know if you ever need links or anything. I'll try to dig them up for you if I have time. I know how hard it is to replace into a behemoth like this.

Going to work on a new rainbow reads list now.

Never did get to conduct more ISOs. Bah.

Matt wrote:

Inawordyes wrote:....

Are you bad?

Linki - Golden, MP, you thinkin' up reasons before IAWY's town flip on why you voted him? "Well, there were more trustworthy people on the IAWY wagon soooo...."

Nope, but I'm still gonna die today, so it doesn't really matter because you still don't get any info by mislynching me without a Mafia flip to check things against.

VOTE INAWORLDYES

mobile at work but this is still scum

Day 2: Rainbow List
(#2 d2, #4 overall)

Strong Town:
Dyslexicon

Moderate Town:
a2thezebra
Golden
Marco

Slight Town:
Metalmarsh89
Soneji

Slight Mafia:
Zexy
sig
Moonei (Matt/Sloonei)
DrWilgy
Psittacitform
ika

Moderate Mafia:
inawordyes

Strong Mafia:
N/A

I'm not too sure about all of those slights though, on either side.

Oops, that should be #3 d2, #5 overall, but no one cares so yeah.

MovingPictures07 wrote:

Inawordyes wrote:

sig wrote:oh and one more point agaisnt IWAY he voted for Wilgy and I didn't like that vote or the reasoning for it. I also don't like how Matt jumped from the MM wagon onto that. I could see a MAtt/MM team.

Current mafia team thoughts.
Ika
MM
Matt
??? Maybe IWAY
IF IWAY is mafia
IWAY
MM/Matt
Ika
Zebra/matt

I normally wouldn't do this, but with no night posting I want to get my thoughts out in case I die. Also if we have a jailkeeper/doctor pleaseeeee protect me.

linki: Fine. But, I want him strung up!

I was getting info on someone I was null reading haha. I don't see why it's a strike against me unless you either didn't read or you're deliberately tunneling me to try and justify your suspicion once a I flip town.

I didn't like Wilgy's response because he said absolutely nothing of value and disappeared again, but I'm still in info-finding mode because I know I'm dying today regardless at this point, so let's move on to someone else in the null list since it won't make much of a difference to self-pres when I'm still getting lynched.

VOTE SIG

Heyo Sig! I don't like that you have a problem with my Wilgy vote. I also don't like that if my memory serves correctly, you have generally been sheeping other people's reads instead of your own content and just kinda going with the flow instead of actively scum hunting.

Can you give me anything that would prove otherwise? What are your current reads?

You're going to die in less than 30 minutes. Why is this your post at this time? Where is your sense of urgency? Why aren't you fighting for your life and trying to gather people's trust/votes?

I already recognized earlier that I was going to die. Being missing D1 and Frog constantly claiming what my MU town meta was (which I'm not playing by becayse I don't have to here) invariably damaged my ability to play without being heavily suspected, so there's not much I can do at this point to avoid the lynch. I'm just focusing on getting info from people right now for everybody else's benefit since most of the focus is being pushed onto me as a distraction from actual scum hunting.

VOTE INAWORDYES

PS, if IAWY scum, I think we are in a world with a town cop. That comment he made still majorly pings me. Like he was pre-emptively thinking through a defence against a red peek.

Golden wrote:VOTE INAWORDYES

PS, if IAWY scum, I think we are in a world with a town cop. That comment he made still majorly pings me. Like he was pre-emptively thinking through a defence against a red peek.

I think you're right.

MovingPictures07 wrote:Thanks for that, MM. I followed that game for a while there, but not intently, and then lost track of it for the second half so I wasn't exactly sure what you meant.

It's a possibility. Do you feel like sig is legitimately listening to anything you've had to say? If so, what instance(s)?

It's too late today to really get to it, but I'll list the instances.

Here, here, here, here, here, here, this one is his vote, here, here, here, vote switch back to me, here, and finally here.

This isn't all of them, but these are many of the instances today where sig either twisted something that I said or did, made an argument that I find weak and/or invalid, or maintained his suspicion of me in a spot that doesn't make sense contextually.

Is this vintage civ sig I'm seeing and I'm wrong? Is he riding the throes of my Day 1 wagon?

Inawordyes wrote:I already recognized earlier that I was going to die. Being missing D1 and Frog constantly claiming what my MU town meta was (which I'm not playing by becayse I don't have to here) invariably damaged my ability to play without being heavily suspected, so there's not much I can do at this point to avoid the lynch. I'm just focusing on getting info from people right now for everybody else's benefit since most of the focus is being pushed onto me as a distraction from actual scum hunting.

There's been plenty of actual scum hunting in this thread not involving you.

Dammit, I wasn't around for enough of this EoD. Time has gone too quickly.

Metalmarsh89 wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:Thanks for that, MM. I followed that game for a while there, but not intently, and then lost track of it for the second half so I wasn't exactly sure what you meant.

It's a possibility. Do you feel like sig is legitimately listening to anything you've had to say? If so, what instance(s)?

It's too late today to really get to it, but I'll list the instances.

Here, here, here, here, here, here, this one is his vote, here, here, here, vote switch back to me, here, and finally here.

This isn't all of them, but these are many of the instances today where sig either twisted something that I said or did, made an argument that I find weak and/or invalid, or maintained his suspicion of me in a spot that doesn't make sense contextually.

Is this vintage civ sig I'm seeing and I'm wrong? Is he riding the throes of my Day 1 wagon?

Sweet, thanks for this. I'll review it, though inevitably I won't be able to comment until d3... if I'm still alive. Others should look as well.