The Syndicate

So rather than selecting to analyse a guy you continue to think is bad you choose the guys who are online. It just doesn't make sense to me that a civ would do that. Particularly one who doesn't produce mass wall posts reads on a whim.

MacDougall wrote:

Glorfindel wrote:

MacDougall wrote:

Glorfindel wrote:

MacDougall wrote:That last paragraph is fairly waffly Glorf. You didn't just make that huge post to make yourself look civvie did you?

My most sincere apologies for my lack of clarity, my friend. Please allow me to clarify; I think motel room is Town, I don't share that view of INH.

How is INH alive if he isn't Silvertongue who saved himself?

What evidence have you that he did? There are 12 other players left in this game and anyone of them (more likely not the five that voted for him) could've made that call. Personally, I'd think his reaction earlier in the Day would suggest that he was not Silvertongue as I cannot see any logical correlation between his role and his reaction. Please don't get me wrong, I am genuinely concerned about the guy but no, I don't think he was Silvertongue. I'd also point out that the use of the pardon ability on himself was not automatic (meaning that he would still have to have notified the host of his intention to apply it) and he wasn't anywhere around for ages before the EoD which again, suggests to me that it was another player who pardoned him.

Why would a player with no confirmation of INH's role save him when his role is a potential lynch pardon of him or herself later. Talk about your all time wastes.

INH also vanishing says to me than he submitted his lynch pardon and bailed.

Because, just maybe, someone out there BELIEVED in him. As I think Jay mentioned earlier, this game is a little too tight for comfort. Who knows if they (Silvertongue) would even be around later to use it? I don't expect you to believe this but there ARE players out there who would sacrifice that ability if they genuinely believed INH to be innocent (in their situation, I'd have done that myself for someone who I felt strongly was being railroaded). It has the added chance (probability-wise) of buying us another day so in answer to your question, yes, I still believe it is the most likely scenario.

Nup not buying sorry. Good try.

MacDougall wrote:I feel like 'because they were online' is not a good reason at this juncture. If you want to contribute you should be analysing the isos of those you were suspicious of, especially as your first major contribution. It makes me feel like you don't really have any suspicions, which would make your previous read of INH fabricated.

I think you contributed to saving indiglo too. Your eod posts were nervy as fuck.

Well, that's your opinion - I wanted to start somewhere and that's where I started. Maybe I should've started with other players but I have time for that.

Glorfindel wrote:

MacDougall wrote:I feel like 'because they were online' is not a good reason at this juncture. If you want to contribute you should be analysing the isos of those you were suspicious of, especially as your first major contribution. It makes me feel like you don't really have any suspicions, which would make your previous read of INH fabricated.

I think you contributed to saving indiglo too. Your eod posts were nervy as fuck.

Well, that's your opinion - I wanted to start somewhere and that's where I started. Maybe I should've started with other players but I have time for that.

So you have the intention of ISO analysing all of is?

Go ahead. Start with INH and then me if I may request.

MacDougall wrote:Nup not buying sorry. Good try.

No, of course you're not. You never were. Thank you though, you helped me think through a lot of things and that's helped me a great deal I think. Thanks!

MacDougall wrote:

Glorfindel wrote:

MacDougall wrote:I feel like 'because they were online' is not a good reason at this juncture. If you want to contribute you should be analysing the isos of those you were suspicious of, especially as your first major contribution. It makes me feel like you don't really have any suspicions, which would make your previous read of INH fabricated.

I think you contributed to saving indiglo too. Your eod posts were nervy as fuck.

Well, that's your opinion - I wanted to start somewhere and that's where I started. Maybe I should've started with other players but I have time for that.

So you have the intention of ISO analysing all of is?

Go ahead. Start with INH and then me if I may request.

I'll certainly take your request under advisement.

I am not so much questioning who you chose to iso. I am questioning why you chose to iso those guys and not your suspects when you are clearly time poor in this game.

It is just easy to rationalise as a Mafia player. Oh dang Mac voted me ... better make a contributing post ... might as well just pick these two randoms.

I think I'm okay with Glorfindel right now. He didn't waffle like Mac said, and he was clear about motel room in the initial post as Quin said he wasn't.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:I think I'm okay with Glorfindel right now. He didn't waffle like Mac said, and he was clear about motel room in the initial post as Quin said he wasn't.

What. No. You can't just do that and complain when people call you arrogant.

Like that is literally dictionary shit man. Just wand waving my opinion like I am a moron.

Also you are wrong. He made an ISO of what he said was Sloonei but was actually Motel Room to neg read INH. And his closing post was what I call waffling. Unless you have a different meaning.

MacDougall wrote:Like that is literally dictionary shit man. Just wand waving my opinion like I am a moron.

I didn't say or imply that you are a moron. I am saying I disagree with your assessment. What did you feel was waffly about the thing you called waffly?

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

MacDougall wrote:Like that is literally dictionary shit man. Just wand waving my opinion like I am a moron.

I didn't say or imply that you are a moron. I am saying I disagree with your assessment. What did you feel was waffly about the thing you called waffly?

Fuck dude. I have laid out what I consider a pretty solid series of reads and you didn't even give me (or quin) the courtesy of explaining how we are wrong. Just because you are confirmed doesn't give you the right to just appear and wrestle the microphone away.

Fuck it. I am going to bed.

MacDougall wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

MacDougall wrote:Like that is literally dictionary shit man. Just wand waving my opinion like I am a moron.

I didn't say or imply that you are a moron. I am saying I disagree with your assessment. What did you feel was waffly about the thing you called waffly?

Fuck dude. I have laid out what I consider a pretty solid series of reads and you didn't even give me (or quin) the courtesy of explaining how we are wrong. Just because you are confirmed doesn't give you the right to just appear and wrestle the microphone away.

Fuck it. I am going to bed.

Okay. I'm sorry you've interpreted my post that way. It wasn't my intention. I will explain what I meant.

It's whatever man. Forums game. You can be captain if it makes you happy or whatever. I am grumpy because I am sick.

MacDougall wrote:That last paragraph is fairly waffly Glorf. You didn't just make that huge post to make yourself look civvie did you?

I assume this refers to this, being the last paragraph of Glorfindel's large post:

Glorfindel wrote:My verdict here is a fairly solid Town read on MR based on his posts above. I can't say I necessarily see his perspective in regard to his judgements on a number of players but it appears he was correct about MP when there were accusations being thrown around about him. I still believe his suspicions on INH are justified (even if there is a chance that they're wrong). I think (as I've suggested earlier) there is some foundation for those suspicions and no, I don't agree with the camp that believes INH was Silvertongue. I cannot see his reaction on Day 4 aligning to him being that role.

I underlined and bolded the portion that I felt was most pertinent. Glorfindel stated he disagreed with motel room on a few points, but in the end still felt inclined to call him a fairly solid town read. If this were waffling, I wouldn't expect that first sentence to exist. He qualified the read with points of dissent, but he didn't caveat the read into something less than it started (something like "I would say he's a fairly solid town read, but there's this bit about him that makes him suspicious that I can't get past...").

What was your specific interpretation of waffling, Mac? Please remember that I have to judge your alignment too.

I just use it as a catch all for over wordliness. Especially when you produce a lot of words to make a weak or simple point.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

MacDougall wrote:That last paragraph is fairly waffly Glorf. You didn't just make that huge post to make yourself look civvie did you?

I assume this refers to this, being the last paragraph of Glorfindel's large post:

Glorfindel wrote:My verdict here is a fairly solid Town read on MR based on his posts above. I can't say I necessarily see his perspective in regard to his judgements on a number of players but it appears he was correct about MP when there were accusations being thrown around about him. I still believe his suspicions on INH are justified (even if there is a chance that they're wrong). I think (as I've suggested earlier) there is some foundation for those suspicions and no, I don't agree with the camp that believes INH was Silvertongue. I cannot see his reaction on Day 4 aligning to him being that role.

I underlined and bolded the portion that I felt was most pertinent. Glorfindel stated he disagreed with motel room on a few points, but in the end still felt inclined to call him a fairly solid town read. If this were waffling, I wouldn't expect that first sentence to exist. He qualified the read with points of dissent, but he didn't caveat the read into something less than it started (something like "I would say he's a fairly solid town read, but there's this bit about him that makes him suspicious that I can't get past...").

What was your specific interpretation of waffling, Mac? Please remember that I have to judge your alignment too.

What kind of weird comment is that last sentence?

Glorfindel wrote:

MacDougall wrote:

Glorfindel wrote:

MacDougall wrote:That last paragraph is fairly waffly Glorf. You didn't just make that huge post to make yourself look civvie did you?

My most sincere apologies for my lack of clarity, my friend. Please allow me to clarify; I think motel room is Town, I don't share that view of INH.

How is INH alive if he isn't Silvertongue who saved himself?

What evidence have you that he did? There are 12 other players left in this game and anyone of them (more likely not the five that voted for him) could've made that call. Personally, I'd think his reaction earlier in the Day would suggest that he was not Silvertongue as I cannot see any logical correlation between his role and his reaction. Please don't get me wrong, I am genuinely concerned about the guy but no, I don't think he was Silvertongue. I'd also point out that the use of the pardon ability on himself was not automatic (meaning that he would still have to have notified the host of his intention to apply it) and he wasn't anywhere around for ages before the EoD which again, suggests to me that it was another player who pardoned him.

What about INH's behavior suggests to you that he's incompatible with the Silvertongue role?

MacDougall wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Please remember that I have to judge your alignment too.

What kind of weird comment is that last sentence?

Sometimes I get the impression people don't consider that when I'm being told in some way or another that I'm being a ball hog. When I make a post like the one I entered this thread with just now, the intent isn't to be an authoritarian figure and shut down dissenters, but to incite reactions from people who can be bad. I didn't intend for that reaction to be an emotional/personal one though, so perhaps it's my fault for not considering the appearance of the post before putting it down.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:indiglo

The more I consider things, the less I feel her behavior in this game is compatible with the town indiglo I played with in Battlestar Galactica and Turf Wars. To be frustrated about facing suspicion when you replace in is understandable, but to abjectly refuse to even play the game is not. Attempts were made to cool those tensions and have a conversation with her, and those attempts were met with contempt. It seems over the top to me and less likely to be completely organic. I struggle to believe that if she's town in this game that wouldn't at least try to communicate and understand points of view. She was great about that in her town games.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

MacDougall wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Please remember that I have to judge your alignment too.

What kind of weird comment is that last sentence?

Sometimes I get the impression people don't consider that when I'm being told in some way or another that I'm being a ball hog. When I make a post like the one I entered this thread with just now, the intent isn't to be an authoritarian figure and shut down dissenters, but to incite reactions from people who can be bad. I didn't intend for that reaction to be an emotional/personal one though, so perhaps it's my fault for not considering the appearance of the post before putting it down.

How do you take Epi's immediate backing down when you pointed out that you had an attempt on your life. Didn't seem very Epi to make such a sheepish reply.

MacDougall wrote:How do you take Epi's immediate backing down when you pointed out that you had an attempt on your life. Didn't seem very Epi to make such a sheepish reply.

I'm not sure he had a choice since the suspicion implied in his "huh" was soundly annihilated. It's worth asking him about though.

Epignosis, before you realized I was saved from a night kill, you clearly implied that you were surprised to see me alive. You specifically referred to your own past body's death on Night 1, drawing some sort of relevance between those things. What did you mean?

The MP kill is bugging me. Who dunnit? MP's four sub-orange reads in his dying rainbow were Glorfindel, DrWilgy, Scotty 2.0, and indiglo.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:The MP kill is bugging me. Who dunnit? MP's four sub-orange reads in his dying rainbow were Glorfindel, DrWilgy, Scotty 2.0, and indiglo.

If I was to make a skittle list Glor, Wilg, Indi would be red. Wilgy is less of a kill his adversaries guy tho.

Say we are playing with a Zebra, Glor and Indi mafia team. Zebra has her real world issues and has to bail. Glor and Indi are left to make the call. MP has shown suspicion of both. No Zebra to take the steering wheel.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

MacDougall wrote:How do you take Epi's immediate backing down when you pointed out that you had an attempt on your life. Didn't seem very Epi to make such a sheepish reply.

I'm not sure he had a choice since the suspicion implied in his "huh" was soundly annihilated. It's worth asking him about though.

Epignosis, before you realized I was saved from a night kill, you clearly implied that you were surprised to see me alive. You specifically referred to your own past body's death on Night 1, drawing some sort of relevance between those things. What did you mean?

I would expect Epi to have analysed the lay of the land with a little more oomph before making a 'my bad' type post. And I was online at the time. The timing makes me think he didn't even go back and look at the lynch result. He just quickly pivoted. As though he wanted to get outta Dodge.

Interesting to note that Zebra's vote at eod was on MP and not INH too.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

What happened to the chart?

Scotty replaced Sprityo right?

MacDougall wrote:Scotty replaced Sprityo right?

He did.

Not sure what happened to the chart, the hosting site may have crapped out. I'll see if I can re-upload. I have all these GTH charts on my computer, I need a life.

Night 3 GTH chart re-uploaded:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Glorfindel wrote:

MacDougall wrote:

Glorfindel wrote:

MacDougall wrote:That last paragraph is fairly waffly Glorf. You didn't just make that huge post to make yourself look civvie did you?

My most sincere apologies for my lack of clarity, my friend. Please allow me to clarify; I think motel room is Town, I don't share that view of INH.

How is INH alive if he isn't Silvertongue who saved himself?

What evidence have you that he did? There are 12 other players left in this game and anyone of them (more likely not the five that voted for him) could've made that call. Personally, I'd think his reaction earlier in the Day would suggest that he was not Silvertongue as I cannot see any logical correlation between his role and his reaction. Please don't get me wrong, I am genuinely concerned about the guy but no, I don't think he was Silvertongue. I'd also point out that the use of the pardon ability on himself was not automatic (meaning that he would still have to have notified the host of his intention to apply it) and he wasn't anywhere around for ages before the EoD which again, suggests to me that it was another player who pardoned him.

What about INH's behavior suggests to you that he's incompatible with the Silvertongue role?

Hey, Jay! As I said previously tonight, when INH left us a little under 22 hours before EoD he was in a fairly aggravated state, you were there, you witnessed it for yourself. I can't speak for anyone else but if I were him, in that state of mind - I honestly can't say that I would've bothered taking the time out to PM the host asking to pardon myself at the end of that day phase and then not return. It is patently clear from G's write-up that Silvertongue was responsible for no lynch at the end of the last Day phase. Like I said, I think it's more likely that another player (the real Silvertongue) witnessed his 'reaction' and rightly or wrongly interpreted it as indicative of his innocence and acted accordingly. If I'm wrong about that as Mac insists I am and there is no one else out there who would be willing to act out of compassion for another and do that, then I'm really not sure I'm cut out for these games.

I'm off to bed and will catch up with you tomorrow. 'Night!

That's just a bit too speculative for my comfort, Matty, regarding what INH may or may not have done with any night actions in his period of frustration. If Silvertongue saved INH, and INH himself wasn't the one to do that -- I can only see one other player in this game who'd be likely to take that action: you. And I only say that now because you're currently promoting the notion that it wasn't him.

I don't recall anyone having enough trust in INH to make that decision. I myself was far from certain about him flipping mafia, but I still wouldn't have stopped the lynch if I could have. I felt it was something we needed to get past. If someone else did save him though don't take this as an admonishment.

I don't like Glorfindel's voting record.
Day 1, early Mac vote. Disappears later and lets the wind of time dictate the lynch.
Day 2, no vote.
Day 3, he makes the second to last vote in the poll and votes for LoRab to tie the lynch. Motel room brings down the hammer on Elo. (Good look for MR)
Day 4, (which i just read) he says he broke the tie, but I can't tell. This one I'm not as bothered about, because he had expressed suspicion of INH prior to the vote. This EoD makes me twitch slightly because we DONT have a lynch and so it's hard to analyze if anyone was protecting someone with votes. I'd like to believe that Wilgy is still bad. But Glorf could be an accomplice.

I don't know Glorf's baddie game all that well. I could be looking for truffles in the wrong forest.

Voting Wilgy

MP's death seems to me a product of lazy killing. MP was already plenty suspicious by several people and therefore if a baddie was killing him based on the danger of people taking to his reads, they must have not been reading the thread. UNLESs that last long legacy post Mp made scared the shit out of someone and they dun pulled the trigger.

I do see validity in one of Mp's orange reads being mafia, but I also walk into that with caution knowing I'm one of them.

The mafia seem to not like big talkers this game. Does someone fit that profile? I know for instance Epi doesnt like to NK JJJ because he likes the challenge of getting him mislynched instead.
But how about Epi/JJJ/Rico/MP. The ones that talk the most?

And why not Sloonei over MP last night? By post count alone, he fits the profile of someone that is likely to be Nk'd.

indiglo wrote:Voting Wilgy

Hi.

You and I are suspicious for one reason or another, how does that make you feel?

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

MacDougall wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Please remember that I have to judge your alignment too.

What kind of weird comment is that last sentence?

Sometimes I get the impression people don't consider that when I'm being told in some way or another that I'm being a ball hog. When I make a post like the one I entered this thread with just now, the intent isn't to be an authoritarian figure and shut down dissenters, but to incite reactions from people who can be bad. I didn't intend for that reaction to be an emotional/personal one though, so perhaps it's my fault for not considering the appearance of the post before putting it down.

Your intent is to incite bad people, but sometimes you can incite egoistic good people too. Just offering this viewpoint because I can be one of those bullheaded people. I just choose not to be incited these days

While I didn't suspect MP, the tinfoil part of me wonders if mafia took one of their own out to throw off everyone's numbers and leave his identity unknown, lol. But given MP's dead comment, and knowing him to be a player of integrity, I don't think he'd make an on topic post, so that makes me feel better. Yup. I'm clearly in the paranoid portion of the game.

Dom wrote:

Epignosis wrote:I am not reading 50 pages. I have two jobs and both involve computer screens.

I'm going to read the host posts and whatever you tell me is important.

Summarize for me, with links if you would like.

I will judge you each based on that. Go. Fresh mind. Blah blah blah.

i think indiglo is bad, i think i was wrong about inh and mp, and i don't feel great about lorab

So you keep saying about me.

Epignosis wrote:INH is either Silvertongue and useless or someone really trusts him. I've never known anybody to trust INH.

Or INH is one of the 2 roles that survives the first death attempt.

MacDougall wrote:

Glorfindel wrote:

MacDougall wrote:That last paragraph is fairly waffly Glorf. You didn't just make that huge post to make yourself look civvie did you?

My most sincere apologies for my lack of clarity, my friend. Please allow me to clarify; I think motel room is Town, I don't share that view of INH.

How is INH alive if he isn't Silvertongue who saved himself?

I agree with you that INH is not civ. I still contend, as I typed above, that he's a role that survives. GMan said that we can't necessarily read into the posts how a player survived. (on that same note, I also won't call JJJ confirmed for the same reason--I also don't suspect him, but I don't consider him confirmed)

If INH were silvertongue, why would he bother to save himself if he were going to bail from the game entirely? Why not just let himself die if he was no longer going to play?

Hummm. I can definitely see indi as bad.

And if Indi is bad, I have a very strong inclination that Sloonei is her teammate. It adds up based on a quick search of indiglo through Sloonei's posts. He has been protecting her most the game. Hell, Sloonei's first mention of her is:

Sloonei wrote:Thanks for the reminder, MP! Look how weak this GTH scum team is.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Elohcin, Glorfindel, sprityo, indiglo

AKA "The four quietest players in the game"

A casual defending of Elo and possibly Indi.

In a previous day, he starts casting little glances over his merry Sloon kingdom to Indi as if he could very well vote for her over Wilgy or sprityo, but even so he says

Sloonei wrote:If the choice came down to Scotty and indiglo, i'd choose Scotty 9 times out of 10.

Check out this post in Day 4:

Sloonei wrote:

LoRab wrote:

Sloonei wrote:I ain't reading shit tonight, but if anyone's got questions for me I'm all ears until I pass out in a drunken stupor in an hour or two.

What's your gut read of Dom?

Indiglo?

I think Dom's good. He's just taking a tight lipped approach, is all.

Indi is I dunno. Gun to head, I'll call her scum. There has been frustration in her response to the conversation around her, but I could go either way on that. If she's town and came in to pre-existing suspicion, bummer. But if she's scum then that's an even bigger bummer, and I think she'd have even more cause for frustration. I'll need to do more digging on her before I can offer a confident read.

'She could be bad I guess, but, like, she could be good and I want her to be good, and it would really make my day poopie if she were bad, so I'm just gonna go brush my teeth'

Dunno what came of the digging. But if Indi were lynched, Sloon could reference this post and go 'See! I had suspicion of her this whole time!'


Note this is from the perspective that Sloon is protecting indi. If indi is good, then that's a far bette rlooo for him. But also I'm just surprised Sloon is still alive, which is what got me looking at him to begin with.

@JJJ: indi just drops a vote unannounced and doesn't offer anything else on the table.

Is that a civ or mafia look for her?

indiglo wrote:Voting Wilgy

Well this is not making me feel great about my vote.

Scotty wrote:@JJJ: indi just drops a vote unannounced and doesn't offer anything else on the table.

Is that a civ or mafia look for her?

I think it is a bad look. It hints at her being withdrawn and uninspired again.

Sloonei wrote:

Scotty wrote:@JJJ: indi just drops a vote unannounced and doesn't offer anything else on the table.

Is that a civ or mafia look for her?

I think it is a bad look. It hints at her being withdrawn and uninspired again.

Would you vote for her? This is the most trepidation I've seen from you regarding indi, but haven't yet seen you pull the trigger.