STAR WARS Mafia [ENDGAME]

[Golden]

And it is entirely within the rules.

[Golden]

What exactly am I crafting Golden. Crafting indicates I am producing a story. All I am doing is looking at what happened in the thread and pointing it out. That's not crafting, that's looking. And how does any of this have the end goal of me trying to not look Hutt? Are you saying that I am bussing you? Really? Are you trying to plant a seed of doubt in towns mind that I have actually bussed you when you flip Hutt?

Oh of course, Matt, because everyone would buy that I was bussing my final teammate if I flipped Hutt

[sig]

Assume it is a calculated gesture by Mac, what does he have to gain Golden? There are still more then enough civs that there is no way the mafia can win tomorrow we aren't close to lynch or loose, so why would he do this if it would result in him being lynched tomorrow?

[Golden]

You don't even realise how far off the deep end you've gone. None of your case is in any way consistent with a rational game plan.

You think I saved enrique and had him in my top town reads to the extent that he was no longer taking votes, only to suddenly turn on him after BC flipped? Great master plan.
You think I distanced from brian to the point where he backed off me, only to go at him when he went after bubbles? Great master plan.
You think I planned with brian for him to lol at my posts, with him giving absolutely no cover by laughing at other peoples posts as well, thereby apparently obviously outing ourselves? Great master plan!

If you are not scum, your theory is the biggest paranoid delusion I've ever seen in a game of mafia. The behaviour you claim makes me scum makes LITERALLY NO SENSE if I was scum, or at least on team hutt. It has literally no sound scum motivations. There is no way you can possibly have thought 'where would golden's head be at' and come up with that. The only way it makes sense is for you to have divorced yourself from reason and hope it sticks through effort.

Then, your double down and triple down in the face of any rational defence... because you have no choice. I've been there. I know what that looks like.

Mac, I've stopped responding to your case because... I see literally no point in defending it. I see it as an entirely defensive move from your perspective, so people don't see you for what you are. I'm under no illusions. You don't actually suspect me. You are a rational player. I do not believe you could buy into your own case if you were sincere. You would see it for the stupidity it would have to be.

[Golden]

@sig - what does he have to gain?

Is there a single person listening to me that he is on team hutt... even one?

No.

No-one believes me, because why would someone on team hutt make such a passionate case for why I am on that team? It clears him of being on his own team.

[MacDougall]

Lol good attempt Golden but I thought you weren't going to try.

[sig]

But if you flip town/3P then Mac would in theory be the next player to go.

[MacDougall]

@sig - what does he have to gain?

Is there a single person listening to me that he is on team hutt... even one?

No.

No-one believes me, because why would someone on team hutt make such a passionate case for why I am on that team? It clears him of being on his own team.

You haven't even bothered to explain why I would need to. Nobody but you and apparently Glorfindel thinks I am bad.

You calling my case paranoid is funny when yours has no basis at all. You aren't paranoid. You are bad.

[Golden]

But if you flip town/3P then Mac would in theory be the next player to go.

Oh, I really seriously hope so. Thats why I'm pushing so hard.

But no. People don't get lynched for being wrong. That's why I say MAC IS NOT WRONG. And when he tries to claim he was just reading me wrong, and that it is all MY fault because I look so bad, and I had all these such obvious baddie tells etc, the stuff he is loving to spout.... please don't let him get in your head that way. Lynch him.

[Golden]

yeah yeah Mac, more of the same

"Noone believes you golden"
"Everyone believes me, there is no way I will get lynched"

I know it Mac. That's why I asked for today to be 1 vs 1. At the end of today's lynch, when the lynch post goes up... they WILL believe me... no matter which of us gets lynched.

[MacDougall]

But if you flip town/3P then Mac would in theory be the next player to go.

It never works out that way and he knows it man. How many times have you seen the lynch me if I am wrong play actually result in the dude receiving the commupance. He is trying to play it cool and get everyone to turn against me before him so he can talk his way out afterwards with ease when I ain't around to scold him.

I would actually say lynch me first but I have a valuable civ role and I don't trust he wouldn't wriggle out afterwards. I would much rather oversee his lynch.

[MacDougall]

But if you flip town/3P then Mac would in theory be the next player to go.

Oh, I really seriously hope so. Thats why I'm pushing so hard.

But no. People don't get lynched for being wrong. That's why I say MAC IS NOT WRONG. And when he tries to claim he was just reading me wrong, and that it is all MY fault because I look so bad, and I had all these such obvious baddie tells etc, the stuff he is loving to spout.... please don't let him get in your head that way. Lynch him.

If you flip civ I will do all those things because they would be true.

Your refusal to entertain the idea of me not being bad is the worst part of your look. Nobody gets your argument. You should just scum claim and go do the stuff you claimed would prevent you being here and hasn't.

[a2thezebra]

@Zebra No I don't think Enrique new who his teammates were.

I don't think he knew either. Do you see what I'm getting at by agreeing with you that the Hutts poisoning Enrique would be funny?

[Golden]

@Mac - my refusal to entertain YOU being good?

You are the one who has been trying to find a way for me to be scum all game.

My refusal to entertain you being good is based on exactly one thing - your refusal to entertain me being good.

I spent all yesterday talking about why you were wrong, and you ignored it all. Everything that gets said, you twist into a new string to your bow.

For me, it is YOUR refusal to entertain me being good that has me convinced.

[Golden]

And, this is why I fucking didn't want to read your case.

Because I have too much to do and I get stuck drawn in to fighting with you. I hate it, tbh.

I would much prefer it if you and I both stop talking and everyone just picked a side and voted one of us.

Because I want to be very clear to the entire thread about this... if we are both still alive tomorrow, this will continue. It won't end. I will be pushing for Mac vs me until one of us is lynched. The game cannot proceed without it being resolved.

[MacDougall]

@Mac - my refusal to entertain YOU being good?

You are the one who has been trying to find a way for me to be scum all game.

My refusal to entertain you being good is based on exactly one thing - your refusal to entertain me being good.

I spent all yesterday talking about why you were wrong, and you ignored it all. Everything that gets said, you twist into a new string to your bow.

For me, it is YOUR refusal to entertain me being good that has me convinced.

So you admit your entire case is OMGUS lol. Golden your did what you did. For me to entertain you being civ would be me lying. So ultimately your case is that I am not lying. Good chat.

[MacDougall]

And, this is why I fucking didn't want to read your case.

Because I have too much to do and I get stuck drawn in to fighting with you. I hate it, tbh.

I would much prefer it if you and I both stop talking and everyone just picked a side and voted one of us.

Because I want to be very clear to the entire thread about this... if we are both still alive tomorrow, this will continue. It won't end. I will be pushing for Mac vs me until one of us is lynched. The game cannot proceed without it being resolved.

Aww diddums. Fuck off you live for this shit you are so bullshitting right now.

[a2thezebra]

Civ Golden is a hurrican of self-assurance.

[sig]

Ugh you two are both acting like your my age. :P

Also everyone realize we have over 24 hours left this phase. I think we can find a third person to lynch who might actually be mafia.

Does anyone have anything to discuss not related to the Golden vs Mac thing? Potentially mafia members, civ reads, or theories anything?

linki: Yes I might be getting it, or I'm completely off. Either way one might wonder who else amused Brian? I think someone mentioned BK but BK is dead right?

[a2thezebra]

*hurricane, FUCK

[Golden]

At this point, Mac, even if you saw the light - eg, made any effort at all to try and figure out my actual role - I'd take it as you doing whatever it takes to get the heat off yourself.

I just can't see any world in which you are good. You've called so much of what I've done from day one of the game bad in such absolute terms that it's ridiculous. I'll remind you of the first thing...

If he had managed to explain a thought process behind this switch, that'd be one thing, but the kicker is that he has failed to address your suspicion whatsoever.

I'm not sold, but I'm listening. I'd like to hear Enrique address your thoughts.

What do you think this was (from before your post):

thats like the biggest nonstory ive seen presented as a case on mafia

tbh i had no idea what "Yavin" was until i read the descriptions, at which point it was a bit of a no-brainer. like really? the place is literally the civvie base where the civvies do cool things in the movies. i DID consider my options (tattooine, endor) up until i found out about yavin. but then when it looked so good, surely i was missing something that kept people away from it? nobody gave it any consideration so i just put it down to lack of familiarity and went ahead and voted.

like i dont even understand what the baddie logic behind anything there would be.

Whether the truth or not, it definitely is a 'thought process behind the switch'.

Golden I expect better from you. This is a textbook example of taking something completely out of context.

MP was referencing enrique's initial reactions to my initial suspicions and his lack of response to them, anything that enrique said subsequent was not on the table.

Day zero. Me defending Enrique.

From day zero, you've been saying things like 'you expect better of me'.

You've tried to put me down in the eyes of others all game.

You've called me mean and belittling.

You've said I'm not bringing supatown golden.

You've very much admitted you are trying to get inside my head.

But you know what I see when I read that post above?

A teammate of Enrique thinking that Enrique is going down and getting cred in advance. That's what I see.

I've asked people to iso you. The evidence is there, if they look. You say my case is rubbish... no, it's not.

You've been manipulative the entire game.

[a2thezebra]

If you get it sig, do you agree?

[MacDougall]

At this point, Mac, even if you saw the light - eg, made any effort at all to try and figure out my actual role - I'd take it as you doing whatever it takes to get the heat off yourself.

I just can't see any world in which you are good. You've called so much of what I've done from day one of the game bad in such absolute terms that it's ridiculous. I'll remind you of the first thing...

If he had managed to explain a thought process behind this switch, that'd be one thing, but the kicker is that he has failed to address your suspicion whatsoever.

I'm not sold, but I'm listening. I'd like to hear Enrique address your thoughts.

What do you think this was (from before your post):

thats like the biggest nonstory ive seen presented as a case on mafia

tbh i had no idea what "Yavin" was until i read the descriptions, at which point it was a bit of a no-brainer. like really? the place is literally the civvie base where the civvies do cool things in the movies. i DID consider my options (tattooine, endor) up until i found out about yavin. but then when it looked so good, surely i was missing something that kept people away from it? nobody gave it any consideration so i just put it down to lack of familiarity and went ahead and voted.

like i dont even understand what the baddie logic behind anything there would be.

Whether the truth or not, it definitely is a 'thought process behind the switch'.

Golden I expect better from you. This is a textbook example of taking something completely out of context.

MP was referencing enrique's initial reactions to my initial suspicions and his lack of response to them, anything that enrique said subsequent was not on the table.

Day zero. Me defending Enrique.

From day zero, you've been saying things like 'you expect better of me'.

You've tried to put me down in the eyes of others all game.

You've called me mean and belittling.

You've said I'm not bringing supatown golden.

You've very much admitted you are trying to get inside my head.

But you know what I see when I read that post above?

A teammate of Enrique thinking that Enrique is going down and getting cred in advance. That's what I see.

I've asked people to iso you. The evidence is there, if they look. You say my case is rubbish... no, it's not.

You've been manipulative the entire game.

I have had you pegged since day 1. Thank you for reminding me how good at Mafia I am.

[MacDougall]

@Zebra No I don't think Enrique new who his teammates were.

I don't think he knew either. Do you see what I'm getting at by agreeing with you that the Hutts poisoning Enrique would be funny?

Lol it's a thought but why would the role not have thread actions. It would be pointless if it didn't.

[a2thezebra]

@Zebra No I don't think Enrique new who his teammates were.

I don't think he knew either. Do you see what I'm getting at by agreeing with you that the Hutts poisoning Enrique would be funny?

Lol it's a thought but why would the role not have thread actions. It would be pointless if it didn't.

That is a thread action. Enrique being poisoned effected the game.

[a2thezebra]

Affected? Offected? idk

[sig]

If I get it I agree, though I don't see how that helps us pin down anymore scum?

[Golden]

Day zero, Mac, day zero

Please, everybody, just lynch me.

I'm begging you all. Don't even make it 1 v 1. I want everyone to see my role, and know how wrong Mac is.

But, don't forget my legacy post. It's important.

[a2thezebra]

If I get it I agree, though I don't see how that helps us pin down anymore scum?

We can look for other similarly bizarre behavior from other players that Jabba specifically might find amusing.

[MacDougall]

@Zebra No I don't think Enrique new who his teammates were.

I don't think he knew either. Do you see what I'm getting at by agreeing with you that the Hutts poisoning Enrique would be funny?

Lol it's a thought but why would the role not have thread actions. It would be pointless if it didn't.

That is a thread action. Enrique being poisoned effected the game.

No need to be coy. You are saying that Crumb poisons people and he intentionally poisoned a teammate for the lulz right?

Or the dude that made Jabba laugh did it.

[Golden]

If I get it I agree, though I don't see how that helps us pin down anymore scum?

We can look for other similarly bizarre behavior from other players that Jabba specifically might find amusing.

Now this kind of thing I could see being a legit Salacious secret. Just that he gets to prank someone. What if Enrique wasn't even actually poisoned? It would have a double whammy... Enrique thinking he was poisoned would be funny, but he wouldn't take any extra votes and it might actually discourage people to vote for him.

[MacDougall]

If I get it I agree, though I don't see how that helps us pin down anymore scum?

We can look for other similarly bizarre behavior from other players that Jabba specifically might find amusing.

You mean like an unfunny meme directly speaking to Jabba that he lol and loves. Come on you are trying hard not to see something so obvious.

[sig]

Being coy is fun though.

[Golden]

Mac, you've made your point many times. If you are the one of the two of us who is so open-minded to the possibility you are wrong, why don't you countenance the idea that zebra might be on to something?

[a2thezebra]

@Zebra No I don't think Enrique new who his teammates were.

I don't think he knew either. Do you see what I'm getting at by agreeing with you that the Hutts poisoning Enrique would be funny?

Lol it's a thought but why would the role not have thread actions. It would be pointless if it didn't.

That is a thread action. Enrique being poisoned effected the game.

No need to be coy. You are saying that Crumb poisons people and he intentionally poisoned a teammate for the lulz right?

Or the dude that made Jabba laugh did it.

I was being coy to gauge reactions. If my theory is right and someone knows too much about it then they might respond to it a certain way. And that's not quite what I'm saying. Golden's got it closer to my interpretation.

[a2thezebra]

If I get it I agree, though I don't see how that helps us pin down anymore scum?

We can look for other similarly bizarre behavior from other players that Jabba specifically might find amusing.

You mean like an unfunny meme directly speaking to Jabba that he lol and loves. Come on you are trying hard not to see something so obvious.

That's just it, it's too obvious. I think that would be a weak game mechanic that doesn't add up with the rest of the game's flair.

[Golden]

Thank you zebra. Exactly what I've been saying since the start.

A very weak game mechanic... I could have said 'I think MP is bad' and brian could have responded 'lol' and... success?

[Golden]

And, honestly, if that was it... why wouldn't brian lol at everyone to cover up who his teammate is?

But this is stuff that Mac has just continuously ignored.

[a2thezebra]

I've been saying it since the start too...but not with a different theory to possibly counter it. Anyway I'm going to be gone for a bit, I should be back in less than a couple of hours.

[MacDougall]

And, honestly, if that was it... why wouldn't brian lol at everyone to cover up who his teammate is?

But this is stuff that Mac has just continuously ignored.

Okay yet Canucklehead pointed out this exact mechanic has been in effect in another Epi game that you both played in that you are ignoring. So your argument that it's a silly idea is a bit hilarious.

[MacDougall]

There are still far too many players who are lurking. Players who I know have been online too. Lurky civs are shithouse. Please contribute.

[sig]

I see Zebra lurking she lied about leaving for a few hours. :P

[MacDougall]

sig can you please do me a favour and tell me who outside of this shitfight you have been casing etc. in a summary format I can read easily so I can take a look. Ta.

Canuck if you come back you too please.

[Canucklehead]

I'm here. I just....don't know? I think both Mac and Golden are civ? If it really were a 1v1 and I HAD to choose one of them to lynch, I think I'd lynch Golden...but I would do it thinking that there was a very good chance Golden was civ.

I think, honestly, that zebra looks the worst out of the whole exchange. She's been subtly fanning the whole thing along, and using key moments to set herself up to look fantastic regardless of the outcome. She hasn't fought hard against the accusation that she's Golden's teammate because she know if he's lynched, he'll likely flip civ (though she's gambling that he's not empire), and she'll be cleared as a hutt....which I think she is.

Unfortunately, I gotta go to a Christmas party, so I'm just going to have to leave that little turd and run. I am NOT in any way sure of this read, it's just an inkling that I thought I would share. Tomorrow, I hope to look and see if the evidence actually backs up my gut feel by looking closely at z's role in the Mac/G conversation, and by looking at her interactions with known Hutts. I probably should've held off on saying anything until I did that....but now I've typed all this shit I can't be bothered to delete it.
Sorry, Z. Don't feel like you need to respond/defend until I actually make a case, k?

[MacDougall]

I'm here. I just....don't know? I think both Mac and Golden are civ? If it really were a 1v1 and I HAD to choose one of them to lynch, I think I'd lynch Golden...but I would do it thinking that there was a very good chance Golden was civ.

I think, honestly, that zebra looks the worst out of the whole exchange. She's been subtly fanning the whole thing along, and using key moments to set herself up to look fantastic regardless of the outcome. She hasn't fought hard against the accusation that she's Golden's teammate because she know if he's lynched, he'll likely flip civ (though she's gambling that he's not empire), and she'll be cleared as a hutt....which I think she is.

Unfortunately, I gotta go to a Christmas party, so I'm just going to have to leave that little turd and run. I am NOT in any way sure of this read, it's just an inkling that I thought I would share. Tomorrow, I hope to look and see if the evidence actually backs up my gut feel by looking closely at z's role in the Mac/G conversation, and by looking at her interactions with known Hutts. I probably should've held off on saying anything until I did that....but now I've typed all this shit I can't be bothered to delete it.
Sorry, Z. Don't feel like you need to respond/defend until I actually make a case, k?

That's not what I asked for you to do but okay...

[sig]

Okay I don't really have much this phase, but I think Sorsha seems scummy. Her lie detecting post as well as her soft defense of Enrique seems scummy to me. She is potential Hutt.
I think either Roxy/Eloh is a scum not sure which though, this is because of their back and forth.
Wilgy is a minor scum ping to me, he hasn't posted much but when he does his posts aren't really that helpful.
I still think we have a few inactive/former inactive people on the Empires team, and maybe one active member but I have no real leads on them outside of this. If they silenced me it seems random at this time.

I think Glorfindel/Space could be mafia this is based off of Glor's game. I'm hesitant about this though since I would like to give Space a chance. I'm also though used to not being able to lynch a replacement there first day. Thoughts on this?

linki: That is interesting, I will need to think on it and reread Zebra.

[MacDougall]

If I have been unable to convince civilians that Golden is bad, despite all evidence to the contrary, then I can see this phase ending up in a multi way low vote tie towards the end of day and I don't like days like that because people can come on late and just dictate who gets lynched. We need solid countercases to me and Golden if one of us isn't going to run away with the vote and I feel like you and Canucklehead are best placed to do so because your games have felt like it has been parallel to mine rather than intertwined and I have strong civ reads on you both.

If you could case those players a bit deeper sig that would be wonderful.

[sig]

I did Sorsha already I'll quote it, Roxy/Eloh no real reasoning besides their own arguments, Wilgy is gut read. Glorfindel is gut/meta and his posts as I said some seemed real others didn't.
quote="sig"]Ugh I made a big ass post, and then my computer crashed. So here is a watered down version
Summery I was silenced I found Glors post/vote stange.
Sorry MM for dying didn't see anything when I ISO'd Enrique today, think we have to focus on other people and there actions especially if he didn't know who was on his team.
Welcome Llama we are lynching Simon based around his votes nothing to do with Fett, also I disagree with you on Golden I don't think he is mafia.
I agree with Mac about hunting both teams, also Mac is a civ read to me. MAtt is also a slight civ read to me. Out of the three newly replaced it is more likely Bass/Bulls.

quote="Sorsha"]

I am voting for Elohcin. I don't feel like her vote for zebra is genuine.

:P

Perhaps you are zebra's teammate.

For real though...Zebra's tone just isn't of her normal civ self imo. Could I be wrong, sure. But I think Bass and Enri both have a good chance of being civ. So I didn't want to place my vote on either.

As far as I know I'm not on zebras team, I'm a part of the rebel alliance so if she is too then yes, we are teammates.

So what changed for you between day one and day two? Because on day one you voted for Enrique but now you think he is civ? That's why I voted you btw, your change with no explanation and your vote out of the blue with no explanation.

Can you quote posts of zebra's that are showing her non civvie tone? I'm not trying to defend her but like bass, it seems like zebra is quite easy to lynch at times as well.... Or at least gets herself into trouble early.

This post doesn't sit right with me. The blue part just sounds like something a baddie Sorsha would say.

Funny how that's a perfectly lie detectable statement that you don't like there BR [/quote]

Surprised these posts haven't gotten more attention, this also something I find quite damning which was overlooked is her defense of Enrique. In these three posts.

Meh- I'm not feeling the Enrique case. He seems pretty sincere to me

Meh- I'm not feeling the Enrique case. He seems pretty sincere to me

bcornett sounded sincere too. Not every scum player is incapable of lying without coming across like a really bad actor. The points are stacking up against him.

And civ players do dumb shit that makes them look bad. Remember me in talking heads?

Meh- I'm not feeling the Enrique case. He seems pretty sincere to me

bcornett sounded sincere too. Not every scum player is incapable of lying without coming across like a really bad actor. The points are stacking up against him.

And civ players do dumb shit that makes them look bad. Remember me in talking heads?

Yeah but the main idea here is that civ players behave like civ players and we try to find inconsistencies in the posts of the players and lynch the ones who are more inconsistent and/or genuine right?

Civs can dig themselves into big holes trying to defend themselves.

What exactly did bcornet sound sincere about anyway? He didn't even give a reason for his vote yesterday that I could see...

BUT then her next post is this.

Voted Enriqe. Hope you're bad!

Linki- I just want answers!!

Then some fluff, almost votes for Simon decides to hold her vote and in the end votes for him anyway. Her vote comes only after six people voted for Simon so she could be a potential teammate of his if not I still lean mafia on her.

Oops I was wrong about Simon, still think Sorsha could be mafia though. Also since Simon isn't a Hutt perhaps Luke was which would know be Llama, this allowed him to defend Simon and look slightly more civvie for not voting him, the same could be said for Glorfindel.[/quote]

Sorsha or Glor(Space Daisy) aremy two highest scum reads today.

[Golden]

And, honestly, if that was it... why wouldn't brian lol at everyone to cover up who his teammate is?

But this is stuff that Mac has just continuously ignored.

Okay yet Canucklehead pointed out this exact mechanic has been in effect in another Epi game that you both played in that you are ignoring. So your argument that it's a silly idea is a bit hilarious.

No - I pointed out that mechanic. I even explained exactly how it worked in that game.

Canuck only mentioned I pointed it out, while saying she forgot it existed and talking about her own mechanic in that game, which was a completely different thing.

In both the case of Canuck's mechanic, and mine, epi's execution was clever.

[Golden]

And that, Mac, is a great example of exactly how you have been completely ignoring the responses I've actually been making.

You are so consumed by your insistence I am bad... I brought up that mechanic in response yesterday while trying to explain why your idea that the 'lol' thing was some kind of clear link was wrong, and you ignored it.