Game of Champions 2017 - GAME OVER

[Kylemii]

Sea Salt is my real name IRL

[Spacedaisy]

respectfully dsagree wth you Ep but you stll won't get my vote because 'm feelng pretty cv about you.

It's Kyle's current discord name, I couldn't get my K to work and I thought it might be clearer to him that I was talking to him.

[Epignosis]

In any event, I'm sorry I wasn't able to put any time into this today. Work started back up and has resumed shaving minutes off my life.

[Boomslang]

Big damn detective role right there.

Seconded.

[colonialbob]

So... Are we just going to forget that we almost lynched cbob yesterday?

Out of an extremely limited pool of suspects?

Also we also almpst lynched you, didn't we? Are we just going to forget about that as well?

NO U Vote colonialbob aubergine.

that's not what that means

like, at all

[colonialbob]

what was the case on cbob? I'm not positive I read the latter half of the last day phase

His first role was mafia as fuck and he played in a way that capitalized on it.

That's why I've wanted to loynch him so far. I kind of stopped thinking of it a few times but that feeling never left.

this is bad reasoning.

also please explain how i capitalized on it, how am i supposed to stop people voting for me in a game where I can't infodrop?

[S~V~S]

Big damn detective role right there.

Seconded.

Drive by Mafia defined

[nijuukyugou]

In any event, I'm sorry I wasn't able to put any time into this today. Work started back up and has resumed shaving minutes off my life.

Just minutes? Ughhhhhhhh

[Scotty]

Let's say Sea Salt that you can only vote for one of the followng four Me Epi or Scotty. Who is it going to be? Because feel confdent that one of us s an Even and am not afrad of beng part of a four PoE pool because I know t's not me. I'd rather put my ass on the lne and get us movng n the rght direction than let the tinfoil lead us off trac. So who is it in your opinion yle?

SVS did I tae myself out of the group? No, I did not. Focus on this group and 'm certan we will get an Even.

I have to go to work but I'll answer this in more detail later when I'm off for the day and have had time to review some important details regarding timing and whatnot but right now I'm strongly leaning towards Scotty. like 85%

Well of course you lean that way- if not you then me. Sloonei shouldn’t be lynched tomorrow, and SD looks civ as fuck.

I’m strongly leaning towards you, like 100%.

[Scotty]

Big damn detective role right there.

Seconded.

Thanks for your non vote for cbob to add to the oh wait you didn’t add anything. You just moved down my list into bad territory again. I think you could definitely be an even. Choosing to abstain with a shitty reason (NO U which was basically Everclear of reasoning) is unacceptable at this point.

Kyle, Boom = evens
INH = Strex

The end let’s go

[Sloonei]

Look guys we know that there is an Even among the group left from pikachu 2.0. That at this point should narrow your list down to Epi, me, Kyle and Scotty. You are going to get a badde out of one the four of us. Please don't fuck around outside of this group. Let's lynch an Even and see if the game continues and reevaluate from there. This is why I voted Kyle. I could vote Kyle or Scotty again tomorrow. I won't be putting my vote anywhere other than one of those two.

Sorry I couldn't stop the lynch train Sloonster.

I don't agree with this method.

I've seen, what, three roles that make other roles that can look this way or that? All it takes is one mafia role that says, "You can target someone from either tribe."

I swear if people come at me like they did Sloonei, I'm gonna be swinging chairs and shit.

Is this to say you disapprove of the theory that has been dominating and guiding the thread for the last three phases?

[Epignosis]

Look guys we know that there is an Even among the group left from pikachu 2.0. That at this point should narrow your list down to Epi, me, Kyle and Scotty. You are going to get a badde out of one the four of us. Please don't fuck around outside of this group. Let's lynch an Even and see if the game continues and reevaluate from there. This is why I voted Kyle. I could vote Kyle or Scotty again tomorrow. I won't be putting my vote anywhere other than one of those two.

Sorry I couldn't stop the lynch train Sloonster.

I don't agree with this method.

I've seen, what, three roles that make other roles that can look this way or that? All it takes is one mafia role that says, "You can target someone from either tribe."

I swear if people come at me like they did Sloonei, I'm gonna be swinging chairs and shit.

Is this to say you disapprove of the theory that has been dominating and guiding the thread for the last three phases?

The theory is fine. The method is shit.

[Epignosis]

I think if S~V~S so vehemently disapproves with people stating "We know" this or "We know" that, she would have jumped on this Spacedaisy claim. Sloonei made it, and she went after him. Spacedaisy makes it. Now what?

[S~V~S]

Look guys we know that there is an Even among the group left from pikachu 2.0. That at this point should narrow your list down to Epi, me, Kyle and Scotty. You are going to get a badde out of one the four of us. Please don't fuck around outside of this group. Let's lynch an Even and see if the game continues and reevaluate from there. This is why I voted Kyle. I could vote Kyle or Scotty again tomorrow. I won't be putting my vote anywhere other than one of those two.

Sorry I couldn't stop the lynch train Sloonster.

I don't agree with this method.

I've seen, what, three roles that make other roles that can look this way or that? All it takes is one mafia role that says, "You can target someone from either tribe."

I swear if people come at me like they did Sloonei, I'm gonna be swinging chairs and shit.

Is this to say you disapprove of the theory that has been dominating and guiding the thread for the last three phases?

This dominating and guiding the thread business is part of the problem. That makes people not part of the dominating and guiding clique feel unimportant. We are 20 some individuals, not a hive mind. We need to keep that in mind and not let us it others off if they don't agree with every aspect of heterodox thought.

[Epignosis]

Look guys we know that there is an Even among the group left from pikachu 2.0. That at this point should narrow your list down to Epi, me, Kyle and Scotty. You are going to get a badde out of one the four of us. Please don't fuck around outside of this group. Let's lynch an Even and see if the game continues and reevaluate from there. This is why I voted Kyle. I could vote Kyle or Scotty again tomorrow. I won't be putting my vote anywhere other than one of those two.

Sorry I couldn't stop the lynch train Sloonster.

I don't agree with this method.

I've seen, what, three roles that make other roles that can look this way or that? All it takes is one mafia role that says, "You can target someone from either tribe."

I swear if people come at me like they did Sloonei, I'm gonna be swinging chairs and shit.

Is this to say you disapprove of the theory that has been dominating and guiding the thread for the last three phases?

This dominating and guiding the thread business is part of the problem. That makes people not part of the dominating and guiding clique feel unimportant. We are 20 some individuals, not a hive mind. We need to keep that in mind and not let us it others off if they don't agree with every aspect of heterodox thought.

If I can dominate and guide the thread, I will do so.

You don't win this game by making people feel important.

[Epignosis]

And this is coming from someone who dominated and guided the thread Day 15.

[S~V~S]

I don't think we're talking about the same thing

[Epignosis]

I don't think we're talking about the same thing

You dominated and lead the Day 15 phase. And to be honest, I don't think you were listening to anything anybody else had to say. It lead to a bad result.

That's my perception of it.

[Epignosis]

In Syndicate Mafia II, no civilian dominated the thread or took the lead. You bad guys did that. Civilians lost.

Dominating and leading is a civilian attitude. Not a mafia one.

[Epignosis]

It's bogus that you went after Sloonei for that.

[Epignosis]

The problem now is that we could have had a good Sloonei who could have opened things up, and now we have to start all over with Sloonei.

[Epignosis]

Not a lot of talkers after the lynch?

[Spacedaisy]

Just waiting the night out. And I've said all I think I need to say right now.

[Sloonei]

Why did scum sloonei campaign to save scotty and push to lynch kyle for multiple phases in a row, even when kyle wasn't on the poll?

why would that be civ exclusive behavior?

Because of what scotty just said. If I'm bad, I'm happy to lynch either of yu. I'd probably even prefer Scotty given his level of activity compared to yours in this game (no offense). I've suspected you over him for several days now and been very clear about this.

okay but that implies that a mafia Sloonei would come in and talk about how much they don't care who gets lynched. I don't believe that's true. it wouldn't be good strategy.

and that's exactly what I'm talking about actually. as soon as sprityo died and it was brought up that sprityo's killer could be narrowed down to a small circle of players, you were the one to quickly stratify that grouping of players, placing yourself above the middle

what does this even mean and where am I guilty of doing it?

...ensuring that at the very least Wilgy, Scotty, and I would be lynched before you would be. you've meanwhile been bringing up the idea that maybe cross tribe kills are actually possible after all, setting things up for the eventuality where all that's left in the PoE is you and Epignosis, at which point you'd have bought 4-5 cycles in which to either expand PoE or figure something else out.

I find it disconcerting that I've been the only one speculating about the possibility of cross-tribe kills. I don't currently believe that it was in play, but we don't know that it wasn't. I'm going to bring that up 100 times out of 100. Also this is a convoluted plan and bad sloon would have just not said "Hey, we still don't know who killed sprit" after wilgy flipped strex when no one else seemed to want to acknowledge that fact.

that's not to say that the only reason why you'd treat the PoE in the way you've done would be for those reasons but I think saying that being specific about your lynches RE the sprityo murder crime is an indication of you being civ is false. I think you'd push the same sort of investigation regardless of whether you were the one who did the murder

I wanted to get people to consider my motives because I felt I was being tunneled. I'm vindicated now, right? we can accept that I was being tunneled and that lynch was an errant one, can't we? I was trying to push people off of me. I was hoping others might arrive at the civilian indicators in my behavior if I guided them there. You misconstrued these actions to justify a vote for me, it seems. I get self-preservation, but you pursued me in a way that I'm not sure I like.

Stay tuned for more!

[Sloonei]

I don't understand why you would suspect Sloonei for giving you a surface read of civ for me, but not suspect me?

what I said about sloonei had basically nothing to do with you. my point was that Sloonei's order of operations for the process of elimination on the whole pika2.0 thing was potentially self-serving and shouldn't qualify as a reason to trust him.

"Potentially self-serving... shouldn't be a reason to trust him." It seemed more like you were denying any potential for good-doing on my behalf because my actions were "potentially self-serving". First off, all my actions are self-serving. Second, of course there's potential for nefariousness in things. But there's also potential for honesty in those same things. My beef with you here, which I was desperately trying to get across while also running around at work, was that you seemed to be turning a completely blind eye toward the other side of this argument. I don't see you leaving the door open at all to consider that I wasn't doing the things you were accusing me of, and that you were even willfully ignoring the points which would work against you (ie, my town read on Daisy).

him putting you high up on the list for reasons that he also applied to scotty, who was low on his list doesn't look good to me.

your being good or bad isn't particularly relevant to Sloonei's treatment of you and others in regards to the PoE. the only way Sloonei pulling you away from the fire looks bad for both you and him is if you're both evens, which seems unlikely and also isn't the point that I'm arguing.

Yeah, see? This is bullshit. For one, Scotty is one of my top town reads, which is the reason I've been so damn conflicted about this whole thing for the last week. But I'm not certain about him, so he's not someone I felt comfortable dismissing right away. And then you go on to deny the relevance of my read on Daisy to your read on me. It seems like it should be a central aspect to all of this, but you're just denying that it means much of anything here and continuing to push forward with the one-sided view of me. Either you are trapped in a tunnel due to circumstances, or you're bad and trying to force a justification for the vote you know you need to put on me.

[Sloonei]

So... Are we just going to forget that we almost lynched cbob yesterday?

Out of an extremely limited pool of suspects?

Also we also almpst lynched you, didn't we? Are we just going to forget about that as well?

NO U Vote colonialbob aubergine.

This vote got me lynched.

[Kylemii]

Let's say Sea Salt that you can only vote for one of the followng four Me Epi or Scotty. Who is it going to be? Because feel confdent that one of us s an Even and am not afrad of beng part of a four PoE pool because I know t's not me. I'd rather put my ass on the lne and get us movng n the rght direction than let the tinfoil lead us off trac. So who is it in your opinion yle?

SVS did I tae myself out of the group? No, I did not. Focus on this group and 'm certan we will get an Even.

I have to go to work but I'll answer this in more detail later when I'm off for the day and have had time to review some important details regarding timing and whatnot but right now I'm strongly leaning towards Scotty. like 85%

Well of course you lean that way- if not you then me. Sloonei shouldn’t be lynched tomorrow, and SD looks civ as fuck.

I’m strongly leaning towards you, like 100%.

no. that's not actually it. I mean... yeah the fact that I know I'm innocent informs my decision but it's more than that.

sloonei's flip and his ability in particular puts some things in a different perspective in kind of an important way. I think he's actually much less likely to be mafia, and spacedaisy is... moderately less likely I think? Epignosis is still the least suspect based on his interactions with nut and long con. I know its not me, so that leaves you, with maybe a very niche chance of it being Space Daisy.

[Sloonei]

Don't want to lynch Kyle
But stats are not in favour
Of him being good

Epi and Scotty
Are both viable suspects
To read tomorrow

Quin goes off the main path for his suspects, but still makes sure his vote counts. If he's bad, he's hinted at suspecting me a number of times earlier in the game and could have followed through on that with an easy vote. Instead he expressed his internal conflict, stated his preferences, and voted for Kyle. Leaning town on Quin2.

[Sloonei]

Why did scum sloonei campaign to save scotty and push to lynch kyle for multiple phases in a row, even when kyle wasn't on the poll?

This is where "I'm not engaged" fails to engage me because you clearly are.

if i was fully engaged i'd have 500 posts right now

It's easy to say that when the thread is dead and you are the one doing the most talking in it.

What posts would you make? Endless post-by-post analysis of every post in the game? There's only so much of that one can do before they get bored or realize they could be doing somethinhg useful. Besides one could say making 500 posts in a day when everyone else makes 100 combined is counter-productive to the civilians. You drown discussion in your posts and nobody reads all of them.

Are you posting less than your usual because you are busy, or because the thread is dead so you don't need to say more to dominate it?

The former. But I'm motivated and less busy now. So I'm looking at you because this post doesn't really contribute anything other than to pile shade on me when I was floundering. So I went looking for the justification of your eventual vote for me. It doesn't exist. Help me out. I see you've been mentioning me as a suspect for a while, but I don't see anything backing that up either. why should I trust you?

[Sloonei]

fuck it

voting sloonei to tie it up, and to see how others react

[VOTE: sloonei] aubergine

I'd be hella pissed at this if you hadn't also vaguely proclaimed Kyle as a slight civ read earlier in the day. That said...

... Kyle is also pretty null, and someone I plan on ISO'ing at some point...

Kyle is someone I don't have particularly strong feelings one way or the other. I was convinced his behavior in LOTR was scummy, but I was proven hella wrong. I haven't really figured out how to read him. He feels like the "easiest" lynch out of the group.

I'm feeling fairly conflicted here. The cases against Kyle keep reminding me of LOTR Mafia, when I was convinced he was scum. Instead, we were both hella town. I highly doubt my vote's going there today.

You seemed to be shrugging at him for a while, but then when the cards were on the table you listlessly flopped onto me and declared that Kyle was now a town read based on a game that is not this one.

[Sloonei]

voting for [VOTE: sloonei] aubergine for self preservation I guess, and also in the hopes that he's the pika2 killer

what the hell was your read on me?

[Sloonei]

Could be a civ or bad role.

Better for a bad than a civ but that can describe every role.

how?

[Kylemii]

what does this even mean and where am I guilty of doing it?

you postured yourself so you were never in the PoE pool by putting 3 players as lynch priorities,

this is no longer important.

I find it disconcerting that I've been the only one speculating about the possibility of cross-tribe kills. I don't currently believe that it was in play, but we don't know that it wasn't. I'm going to bring that up 100 times out of 100. Also this is a convoluted plan and bad sloon would have just not said "Hey, we still don't know who killed sprit" after wilgy flipped strex when no one else seemed to want to acknowledge that fact.

what?

I wanted to get people to consider my motives because I felt I was being tunneled. I'm vindicated now, right? we can accept that I was being tunneled and that lynch was an errant one, can't we? I was trying to push people off of me. I was hoping others might arrive at the civilian indicators in my behavior if I guided them there. You misconstrued these actions to justify a vote for me, it seems. I get self-preservation, but you pursued me in a way that I'm not sure I like.

your motivations re: spacedaisy only make sense now with the context of your role, there was no reason to believe that was the case prior to the flip. we hadn't seen any pseudo info type roles so i was under the impression that there just wasn't anything like that in this setup.

"Potentially self-serving... shouldn't be a reason to trust him." It seemed more like you were denying any potential for good-doing on my behalf because my actions were "potentially self-serving". First off, all my actions are self-serving. Second, of course there's potential for nefariousness in things. But there's also potential for honesty in those same things. My beef with you here, which I was desperately trying to get across while also running around at work, was that you seemed to be turning a completely blind eye toward the other side of this argument. I don't see you leaving the door open at all to consider that I wasn't doing the things you were accusing me of, and that you were even willfully ignoring the points which would work against you (ie, my town read on Daisy).

i wasn't accusing you of being bad for doing the things you did, I was explaining why your explanation for how you couldn't possibly be bad because you were accusing some players more than others was faulty.

Yeah, see? This is bullshit. For one, Scotty is one of my top town reads, which is the reason I've been so damn conflicted about this whole thing for the last week. But I'm not certain about him, so he's not someone I felt comfortable dismissing right away. And then you go on to deny the relevance of my read on Daisy to your read on me. It seems like it should be a central aspect to all of this, but you're just denying that it means much of anything here and continuing to push forward with the one-sided view of me. Either you are trapped in a tunnel due to circumstances, or you're bad and trying to force a justification for the vote you know you need to put on me.

Ok but see? don't you see the contradiction there? spacedaisy were both top town reads for you but you ONLY considered the possibilities of a bad Scotty and never considered the possibilities of a bad spacedaisy.

I don't really understand the insinuation that Spacedaisy's actual alignment should have had a logical direct correlation to yours. my issue with you was related to your treatment of your spacedaisy read in relation to your other reads, not the actual read itself.

again, all of that makes sense in light of current events

[Sloonei]

I'm talking about your argument which is based on my treatment of daisy but which gives no consideration to why I might honestly town read her.

your being honest or dishonest ... has very little bearing on anything.

That's... that's what this game is about. what?

[Sloonei]

Look guys we know that there is an Even among the group left from pikachu 2.0. That at this point should narrow your list down to Epi, me, Kyle and Scotty. You are going to get a badde out of one the four of us. Please don't fuck around outside of this group. Let's lynch an Even and see if the game continues and reevaluate from there. This is why I voted Kyle. I could vote Kyle or Scotty again tomorrow. I won't be putting my vote anywhere other than one of those two.

Sorry I couldn't stop the lynch train Sloonster.

I don't agree with this method.

I've seen, what, three roles that make other roles that can look this way or that? All it takes is one mafia role that says, "You can target someone from either tribe."

I swear if people come at me like they did Sloonei, I'm gonna be swinging chairs and shit.

Is this to say you disapprove of the theory that has been dominating and guiding the thread for the last three phases?

This dominating and guiding the thread business is part of the problem. That makes people not part of the dominating and guiding clique feel unimportant. We are 20 some individuals, not a hive mind. We need to keep that in mind and not let us it others off if they don't agree with every aspect of heterodox thought.

I was just referring to the topic which has been the driving force in this game (the Pika2 killer) for the last several days. Everyone has a voice and no one should be included, and that's kind of why I was questioning Epi here. I thought he was suddenly objecting to this approach after watching us all chase it around for a few days. But I misunderstood him.

That said, it is preferable for civilians to exert as much authority on the thread as they're able. It's how we win. By controlling the narrative in ways that are beneficial to the civilians rather than mafia.

[Kylemii]

I'm talking about your argument which is based on my treatment of daisy but which gives no consideration to why I might honestly town read her.

your being honest or dishonest ... has very little bearing on anything.

That's... that's what this game is about. what?

...no? do you think that mafia members only exclusively tell lies about their reads?

do you see no possible variation of events where you would ever townread a player while being a mafia member

[Kylemii]

i'm glad that "pika2 killer" has caught on

i think we should start calling the mafia teams "the Strex Armstrongs" and "Even Stevens"

[Kylemii]

I'm talking about your argument which is based on my treatment of daisy but which gives no consideration to why I might honestly town read her.

your being honest or dishonest ... has very little bearing on anything.

That's... that's what this game is about. what?

...no? do you think that mafia members only exclusively tell lies about their reads?

do you see no possible variation of events where you would ever townread a player while being a mafia member

you clipped out the context, that was specifically referring to your level of honesty re: your read on SD.

[Sloonei]

what does this even mean and where am I guilty of doing it?

you postured yourself so you were never in the PoE pool by putting 3 players as lynch priorities,

this is no longer important.

I removed myself from my own POE because why on the earth would I not? I never told others that they needed to do the same. Except for that one time where I literally did exactly that, but whatever.
It is important to me in that I am trying to understand what you were thinking as you decided to lynch me.

I find it disconcerting that I've been the only one speculating about the possibility of cross-tribe kills. I don't currently believe that it was in play, but we don't know that it wasn't. I'm going to bring that up 100 times out of 100. Also this is a convoluted plan and bad sloon would have just not said "Hey, we still don't know who killed sprit" after wilgy flipped strex when no one else seemed to want to acknowledge that fact.

what?[/quote]Civilians do not know what the Mafia team kill mechanics are like. we do not know for certain that they needed to target players in the same tribe as them.
Also, I believe I was the one who brought us back onto the topic of identifying the Even from Pikachu after wilgy had flipped Strex. He was lynched, I think, under the belief that he'd flip Even and be revealed to have killed Sprityo. But instead he flipped Strex, and we still had to identify the Even. I mentioned this at a time when (I believe) no one else was talking about it. If I am bad, I'd let that shit slide by unnoticed for as long as possible.

I know this isn't as relevant now that I'm not being suspected but dammit i'm HOT, let me get this off my chest. And also I'm trying to figure out your thought process and all that crap.

I wanted to get people to consider my motives because I felt I was being tunneled. I'm vindicated now, right? we can accept that I was being tunneled and that lynch was an errant one, can't we? I was trying to push people off of me. I was hoping others might arrive at the civilian indicators in my behavior if I guided them there. You misconstrued these actions to justify a vote for me, it seems. I get self-preservation, but you pursued me in a way that I'm not sure I like.

your motivations re: spacedaisy only make sense now with the context of your role, there was no reason to believe that was the case prior to the flip. we hadn't seen any pseudo info type roles so i was under the impression that there just wasn't anything like that in this setup.[/quote]You were under the impression that this wacky ass, gigantic role madness game which restricts info-dumping featured 0 information roles?

"Potentially self-serving... shouldn't be a reason to trust him." It seemed more like you were denying any potential for good-doing on my behalf because my actions were "potentially self-serving". First off, all my actions are self-serving. Second, of course there's potential for nefariousness in things. But there's also potential for honesty in those same things. My beef with you here, which I was desperately trying to get across while also running around at work, was that you seemed to be turning a completely blind eye toward the other side of this argument. I don't see you leaving the door open at all to consider that I wasn't doing the things you were accusing me of, and that you were even willfully ignoring the points which would work against you (ie, my town read on Daisy).

i wasn't accusing you of being bad for doing the things you did, I was explaining why your explanation for how you couldn't possibly be bad because you were accusing some players more than others was faulty.[/quote]I wasn't explaining why I couldn't possibly be bad.

Yeah, see? This is bullshit. For one, Scotty is one of my top town reads, which is the reason I've been so damn conflicted about this whole thing for the last week. But I'm not certain about him, so he's not someone I felt comfortable dismissing right away. And then you go on to deny the relevance of my read on Daisy to your read on me. It seems like it should be a central aspect to all of this, but you're just denying that it means much of anything here and continuing to push forward with the one-sided view of me. Either you are trapped in a tunnel due to circumstances, or you're bad and trying to force a justification for the vote you know you need to put on me.

Ok but see? don't you see the contradiction there? spacedaisy were both top town reads for you but you ONLY considered the possibilities of a bad Scotty and never considered the possibilities of a bad spacedaisy.

I don't really understand the insinuation that Spacedaisy's actual alignment should have had a logical direct correlation to yours. my issue with you was related to your treatment of your spacedaisy read in relation to your other reads, not the actual read itself.

again, all of that makes sense in light of current events
[/quote]
My issue is that there doesn't seem to be any consideration from you as to what my Spacedaisy read actually was or where it might have come from. None of this is to say I had or have any privileged information about spacedaisy or any other player, but I find it troubling that the issue of my read on Spacedaisy became pivotal to your apparent suspicion of me even though there is no identifiable reason why my read of Spacedaisy should have been indicative of scumminess on my part. It seems like you are clutching to a false issue in order to back up a vote you don't believe in.

[Sloonei]

it's 2 AM and I don't know how to format junk.

[Sloonei]

I'm talking about your argument which is based on my treatment of daisy but which gives no consideration to why I might honestly town read her.

your being honest or dishonest ... has very little bearing on anything.

That's... that's what this game is about. what?

...no? do you think that mafia members only exclusively tell lies about their reads?

do you see no possible variation of events where you would ever townread a player while being a mafia member

I think mafia members are inherently inclined to give reads that they don't believe in, and thus are more likely to tell lies, yes.

I see possible scenarios where a mafia member can earnestly town read a player. But I don't see how you could have arrived at a suspicion of me based on a behavior of mine without any consideration of its level of authenticity.

[Kylemii]

voting for [VOTE: sloonei] aubergine for self preservation I guess, and also in the hopes that he's the pika2 killer

what the hell was your read on me?

I was fairly convinced there was a good chance you were bad up until quin posted something about having an idea what was going on between you and SD that made me think you might have been masons or something. i was getting ready to suggest a cfd on like a 3rd player or something but there wasn't enough time left.

hhhhfuck

this was the actual moment it hit me

[Sloonei]

voting for [VOTE: sloonei] aubergine for self preservation I guess, and also in the hopes that he's the pika2 killer

what the hell was your read on me?

I was fairly convinced there was a good chance you were bad up until quin posted something about having an idea what was going on between you and SD that made me think you might have been masons or something. i was getting ready to suggest a cfd on like a 3rd player or something but there wasn't enough time left.

hhhhfuck

this was the actual moment it hit me

Can you summarize the reasons why you thought I might be bad if you haven't already repeated them a bunch of times?

[Sloonei]

DDL, INH, and Boomslang all came out of this lynch looking various shades of bad in my very biased opinion.

[Spacedaisy]

Kyle, I am increasingly ready to lynch you. Your arguments make no logical sense to me. Why would Sloonei include himself in considering who his personal PoE pool has been limited to? That was what Sloonei was doing, not posturing, he was the playing the game. Neither Civ nor mafia in their right mind would ever include themselves as possibly being a contender in their own personal PoE pool of suspects.

[Kylemii]

I think mafia members are inherently inclined to give reads that they don't believe in, and thus are more likely to tell lies, yes.

in what scenario would a mafia member ever lie about a town read, barring the scenario where the read in question were their teammate? by definition mafia members are almost always telling the truth about their town reads.

I see possible scenarios where a mafia member can earnestly town read a player. But I don't see how you could have arrived at a suspicion of me based on a behavior of mine without any consideration of its level of authenticity.

sloonei you were citing your specific behaviors as being purely indicative of civ alignment and they weren't so I disputed it directly because i was putting your level of authenticity into question. that was kind of the whole point.

[Sloonei]

I think mafia members are inherently inclined to give reads that they don't believe in, and thus are more likely to tell lies, yes.

in what scenario would a mafia member ever lie about a town read, barring the scenario where the read in question were their teammate? by definition mafia members are almost always telling the truth about their town reads.

Throw the word "lie" out then. A mafia member giving a town read on a town player is still a false read because it's not something they deduced or worked toward. It's just something that they know. It's a dishonest read in the sense that it's not actually a read at all.

I see possible scenarios where a mafia member can earnestly town read a player. But I don't see how you could have arrived at a suspicion of me based on a behavior of mine without any consideration of its level of authenticity.

sloonei you were citing your specific behaviors as being purely indicative of civ alignment and they weren't so I disputed it directly because i was putting your level of authenticity into question. that was kind of the whole point.
[/quote]
That is not what I was doing. And it is not a great look for you that this is the only contribution you made in the discussion about the player you voted to lynch. It certainly looks like this was the basis of your vote. If there was another reason, you never touched on it. Actually...

Sloonei dancing around the "why is SD town" question makes me want to vote for him.

Why?

Because civs generally have a reason for civ-reading somebody so strongly. Nobody was asking for a case with posting history laid out chapter and verse, but you didn't even say "I feel her reads are genuine, particularly of X and Y" or whatever. Your read of her is a smooth surface that we can't interact with.

this is what bugs me as well. I don't have a problem with sloonei townreading SD for vague reasons by itself, but the fact that she's being excluded from the process of elimination pool with no presented reason other than good vibes seems shady, when he's presenting the narrative that it has to be Scotty or me because it can't be the other two or himself

Yeah, this is the reason you cited for suspecting me.

[Kylemii]

Kyle, I am increasingly ready to lynch you. Your arguments make no logical sense to me. Why would Sloonei include himself in considering who his personal PoE pool has been limited to? That was what Sloonei was doing, not posturing, he was the playing the game. Neither Civ nor mafia in their right mind would ever include themselves as possibly being a contender in their own personal PoE pool of suspects.

that's not what im saying at all

obviously sloonei didn't need to include himself in his own PoE. I was saying that Sloonei avoided being in the PoE pool in general by jumping in and leading the charge on the whole PoE thing early and pushing specific narratives so that he was out of the firing line. Wilgy was lynched because of Sloonei's PoE. Scotty and I were put into the fire because of Sloonei's PoE etc etc etc.

[Kylemii]

it literally says right there in the post you quoted that the thing that bugged me was the discrepancy in your treatment of Scooty and SD

[Sloonei]

Kyle, I am increasingly ready to lynch you. Your arguments make no logical sense to me. Why would Sloonei include himself in considering who his personal PoE pool has been limited to? That was what Sloonei was doing, not posturing, he was the playing the game. Neither Civ nor mafia in their right mind would ever include themselves as possibly being a contender in their own personal PoE pool of suspects.

that's not what im saying at all

obviously sloonei didn't need to include himself in his own PoE. I was saying that Sloonei avoided being in the PoE pool in general by jumping in and leading the charge on the whole PoE thing early and pushing specific narratives so that he was out of the firing line. Wilgy was lynched because of Sloonei's PoE. Scotty and I were put into the fire because of Sloonei's PoE etc etc etc.

I'm to blame for pushing the narratives which I thought were most likely to result in a successful lynch? what about the people who followed my suggestions, if any of this is even bad? So far the only person to be mislynched from all of this is me.

The "pushing narratives" accusations is nonsense, and it's one that I'm always gonna reject. "Pushing narratives" is what everybody should be doing at all times in a game. Civilians should want to manipulate the conversation in a thread so that we are discussing the things that seem most constructive to us. Yes, mafia might also try to steer conversation in a certain direction. Both sides are working to their respective goals by pushing the narratives that are favorable to them. This is not something that should be wielded as a mark of suspicion against anybody.