Death Note Mafia [END]

[zeek]

How sorry are you?

[Turnip Head]

Not very, since I still think you might be bad and I think your reaction here is a little petty. But sorry enough in case you are genuinely upset for some reason.

[Spacedaisy]

If I no longer believe it to be true, then there is no risk of painting a target. Maybe you disagree with that

If you no longer believe it to be true, why even bring it up in the first place? Why do you need to say, I thought they were these very specific roles but I think I was wrong now. I wouldn't even have said anything about it because it is drawing a useless speculation about them. Especially with those two particular roles. I just don't see why you would say it.

[DharmaHelper]

Alright so this is not going to be a quote-pulling post, rather just my thoughts on each player as I read through their posts. Lets get started. *Editors Note: I realized I was gonna have to make multiple posts, so I covered what was on my mind right now in this post and will do the others later. The numbers are off because I copy/pasted from the front page, numbered those, and cut out the ones I'm covering later.*

1. AceofSpaces - I appreciate the effort he's put into the game up until now. Even if he was wrong about Trice, at least he put himself out there and went guns blazing for his suspect. I do want to point out something that has caught my eye reading back on him. Early on Day 1 he expressed a suspicion of Made, that seems to have gotten lost in the trice discussion. I am wondering where Ace stands on Made now? Made is not even in his "here are my thoughts" post after the Trice lynch.

2. Bass_the_Clever - *Very* blendy and sketchy. Not really putting forth anything that hasn't already been put forth. His suspicions are difficult to nail down, as most of his posts are "I don't know what to think about this" or something similar.

3. bea - Very friendly and blendy initially. In my experience, bea often posts big posts without saying much, or by repeating basically the same idea over and over. I am curious to hear from bea how she went from thinking FZ.'s case was a "no u" to it making bea feel better about FZ. Because that to me is a bit sketchy.

8. DisgruntledPorcupine - Typical non-factor play style from DP. I could spend a whole post getting mad about it but I will not.

10. Epignosis - His recent behavior is certainly suspect. Overall it feels like, to me, he's spending a majority of his time chastising people instead of looking for Kiras as he has repeatedly said we need to do. For someone who is concerned with turning the focus away from the Yotsuba, he is certainly not shy about reminding us about the Yotsuba every other post. Also, his crybaby fit last night made me feel even worse about him. I didn't realize Eloh was serious when she was talking about cutting his balls off.

22. Turnip Head - Almost as much of a non factor as DP. I will not be considering anything TH brings to the table as legitimate, as I think its pretty obvious he's just fishing for a reaction.

[zeek]

Not very, since I still think you might be bad and I think your reaction here is a little petty. But sorry enough in case you are genuinely upset for some reason.

A little petty? You're serious, aren't you?

Wow. This game is crazy. People are acting so crazy.

[Marmot]

Really? That's all the two of you have to say?

I suspect both of you, but I doubt it'd help to lynch either

You sound pretty upset Zeek.

That people don't have to give reasons and be open to discussion? Damn right. Clearly you're playing a different game to me and you don't need to do any thought on your vote. I think I'm just going to ignore you from now on.

I've interacted with Epi a ton and I don't feel good about it.

I'm compiling those reasons right now, so cool your jets man.

I think you have a 5% chance of being Kira.

[Turnip Head]

Is fishing for reactions a bad thing, DharmaHelper?

[DharmaHelper]

Is fishing for reactions a bad thing, DharmaHelper?

Its not a fantastic thing. You obviously are unconcerned with legitimate discussion, so I am unconcerned with any discussion you are concerned with,

[Turnip Head]

If my illegitimate discussion helps catch Kira I'll consider it a win

[Epignosis]

If I no longer believe it to be true, then there is no risk of painting a target. Maybe you disagree with that

If you no longer believe it to be true, why even bring it up in the first place? Why do you need to say, I thought they were these very specific roles but I think I was wrong now. I wouldn't even have said anything about it because it is drawing a useless speculation about them. Especially with those two particular roles. I just don't see why you would say it.

Transparency. It was part of the reason I initially trusted S~V~S.

[Turnip Head]

Could you be transparent with who you think is Kira, Epi?

[zeek]

If my illegitimate discussion helps catch Kira I'll consider it a win

[FZ.]

Really? That's all the two of you have to say?

I suspect both of you, but I doubt it'd help to lynch either

You sound pretty upset Zeek.

That people don't have to give reasons and be open to discussion? Damn right. Clearly you're playing a different game to me and you don't need to do any thought on your vote. I think I'm just going to ignore you from now on.

TH is playing a very different game from himself as well. But never in all my games with him (not that many, but enough), and I think I was on to his baddie behaviours earlier than most players when he was bad, had he acted like this. I think he would try a lot harder. I don't think he has it in him to be a careless baddie. I'm not saying he can't be an indie role or something other than a civ, but I can't see him being that kind of baddie.

MM, on the other hand, is a different story. I don't think I know how he plays. Though both MM and TH have voted early in all days, so I keep wondering if it's a role requirement or something.

[S~V~S]

Could you be transparent with who you think is Kira, Epi?

I an gonna guess he either says, "No", or he says "S~V~S".

[Marmot]

Really? That's all the two of you have to say?

I suspect both of you, but I doubt it'd help to lynch either

You sound pretty upset Zeek.

That people don't have to give reasons and be open to discussion? Damn right. Clearly you're playing a different game to me and you don't need to do any thought on your vote. I think I'm just going to ignore you from now on.

TH is playing a very different game from himself as well. But never in all my games with him (not that many, but enough), and I think I was on to his baddie behaviours earlier than most players when he was bad, had he acted like this. I think he would try a lot harder. I don't think he has it in him to be a careless baddie. I'm not saying he can't be an indie role or something other than a civ, but I can't see him being that kind of baddie.

MM, on the other hand, is a different story. I don't think I know how he plays. Though both MM and TH have voted early in all days, so I keep wondering if it's a role requirement or something.

I don't even know how I play.

[Zombarella]

Zombra I can't figure this out by reading Snowman so I hope you will assist. My questions are below in red:

Whatever, DH, I don't care what you say.

Yesterday I wasn't fully on board with lynching Snowman because I thought the evidence against him wasn't super strong. However, this post (the one below - NOT THE ONE FROM THREE DAYS AGO - has me convinced that he is bad. I am 100% on board with this.

THIS IS THE POST I WAS WAITING FOR:

@ Snowman, in all fairness - what do you think of how Zombra's been playing so far? Is she reading on the up and up to you? Besides llama, who else will you be looking at going into the next lynch?

I do think she's been a straight-shooter so far. The real test would be how she reacts to a legitimate accusation.

Snowman is exceptionally subtle in his implications. I am used to reading him and it's the duality of his post that gives him away. I use that tactic all the time, but he only does it when he feels cornered/guilty. That's really it. I know that you might feel that you don't have any reason to trust me but that's why I'm so excited about this. When we eventually find out that I am right, you will all trust me more
Here are my reasons. I know that you all haven't played with Snowman very much so you might not agree right now, but I have played with him for the last 20 years (mind out of the gutter) and once you find out (even if its at the end of the game) that I am a detective and he is bad you are guys are all going to put more stock in my opinion in future games. I am SO excited about this!

1) Snowman is threatened by me - I deduce that he is afraid I am about to figure him out. He wouldn't worry about this unless he was bad. Where and how does he indicate that he is afraid you are going to figure him out? How can you tell that he's worried?
2) Snowman does not think that we are on the same team. I know what team I'm on - so he must be bad.
3) Snowman doesn't want to come out and build a case against me himself because he thinks that I am good and that if you all lynch me and find that out, he will look bad. He wants someone else to build the case against me so they can take the heat when I flip detective. Why do you say this? How can you tell he wants someone else to build a case on you? He doesn't even say you are bad that I can see.

That is my case. I will vote Snowman at the first opportunity. I am officially calling out Llama to support me. He was gung ho to lynch Snowman yesterday. The case against him has only gotten stronger.

[Zombarella]

Zombra I can't figure this out by reading Snowman so I hope you will assist. My questions are below in red:

Whatever, DH, I don't care what you say.

Yesterday I wasn't fully on board with lynching Snowman because I thought the evidence against him wasn't super strong. However, this post (the one below - NOT THE ONE FROM THREE DAYS AGO - has me convinced that he is bad. I am 100% on board with this.

THIS IS THE POST I WAS WAITING FOR:

@ Snowman, in all fairness - what do you think of how Zombra's been playing so far? Is she reading on the up and up to you? Besides llama, who else will you be looking at going into the next lynch?

I do think she's been a straight-shooter so far. The real test would be how she reacts to a legitimate accusation.

Here are my reasons. I know that you all haven't played with Snowman very much so you might not agree right now, but I have played with him for the last 20 years (mind out of the gutter) and once you find out (even if its at the end of the game) that I am a detective and he is bad you are guys are all going to put more stock in my opinion in future games. I am SO excited about this!

1) Snowman is threatened by me - I deduce that he is afraid I am about to figure him out. He wouldn't worry about this unless he was bad. Where and how does he indicate that he is afraid you are going to figure him out? How can you tell that he's worried?
2) Snowman does not think that we are on the same team. I know what team I'm on - so he must be bad.
3) Snowman doesn't want to come out and build a case against me himself because he thinks that I am good and that if you all lynch me and find that out, he will look bad. He wants someone else to build the case against me so they can take the heat when I flip detective. Why do you say this? How can you tell he wants someone else to build a case on you? He doesn't even say you are bad that I can see.

That is my case. I will vote Snowman at the first opportunity. I am officially calling out Llama to support me. He was gung ho to lynch Snowman yesterday. The case against him has only gotten stronger.

Dang it! I posted my reply in the middle of the post. Here it is in proper format.

[Epignosis]

Could you be transparent with who you think is Kira, Epi?

I an gonna guess he either says, "No", or he says "S~V~S".

I have already expressed my opinions. I am not going to post again simply because a god of death (who voted for me already) asks me to do so. I think it's important that the non-Kira are able to read the thread and make informed decisions. I think some people will visit the thread and see they have dozens of pages to read and instantly feel overwhelmed. I think you mentioned something along those lines.

[Zombarella]

Zombra I can't figure this out by reading Snowman so I hope you will assist. My questions are below in red:

Whatever, DH, I don't care what you say.

Yesterday I wasn't fully on board with lynching Snowman because I thought the evidence against him wasn't super strong. However, this post (the one below - NOT THE ONE FROM THREE DAYS AGO - has me convinced that he is bad. I am 100% on board with this.

THIS IS THE POST I WAS WAITING FOR:

@ Snowman, in all fairness - what do you think of how Zombra's been playing so far? Is she reading on the up and up to you? Besides llama, who else will you be looking at going into the next lynch?

I do think she's been a straight-shooter so far. The real test would be how she reacts to a legitimate accusation.

Here are my reasons. I know that you all haven't played with Snowman very much so you might not agree right now, but I have played with him for the last 20 years (mind out of the gutter) and once you find out (even if its at the end of the game) that I am a detective and he is bad you are guys are all going to put more stock in my opinion in future games. I am SO excited about this!

1) Snowman is threatened by me - I deduce that he is afraid I am about to figure him out. He wouldn't worry about this unless he was bad. Where and how does he indicate that he is afraid you are going to figure him out? How can you tell that he's worried?
2) Snowman does not think that we are on the same team. I know what team I'm on - so he must be bad.
3) Snowman doesn't want to come out and build a case against me himself because he thinks that I am good and that if you all lynch me and find that out, he will look bad. He wants someone else to build the case against me so they can take the heat when I flip detective. Why do you say this? How can you tell he wants someone else to build a case on you? He doesn't even say you are bad that I can see.

That is my case. I will vote Snowman at the first opportunity. I am officially calling out Llama to support me. He was gung ho to lynch Snowman yesterday. The case against him has only gotten stronger.

Third time's a charm:
Snowman is exceptionally subtle in his implications. I am used to reading him and it's the duality of his post that gives him away. I use that tactic all the time, but he only does it when he feels cornered/guilty. That's really it. I know that you might feel that you don't have any reason to trust me but that's why I'm so excited about this. When we eventually find out that I am right, you will all trust me more

[Zombarella]

TH it seems like you would be trying to get us to vote Epi. Have you changed your mind about him?

It would just be nice to have more suspects in case people don't want to vote Epi but don't suspect Snowman either.

Yes, at the moment that is where I am sitting. I'm re-reading Zombrella's suspicion of Snowman but I can't figure out what he has said or done to back her accusations. On to reading him again.

Her suspicion of Snowman seemed to appear out of thin air, didn't it? One minute she was all "I need more, maybe once he does something more bad", and then like the very next post that Snowman makes, she suddenly has her proof.

Yes. That was my proof.

[Turnip Head]

Epi I honestly have no idea where you stand on anyone other than you think I'm a shinigami, juliets is Yotsuba, that SVS is not Penber or something, and who can forget your Day 1 case on Russ. None of these tell me who you think Kira is. And yet you keep stressing the importance of finding Kira, and how improbable it is that the detectives will succeed. You seem disinterested in actually helping find Kira, if you ask me, which I know you didn't. But this is not your civvie MO at all.

[S~V~S]

Could you be transparent with who you think is Kira, Epi?

I an gonna guess he either says, "No", or he says "S~V~S".

I have already expressed my opinions. I am not going to post again simply because a god of death (who voted for me already) asks me to do so. I think it's important that the non-Kira are able to read the thread and make informed decisions. I think some people will visit the thread and see they have dozens of pages to read and instantly feel overwhelmed. I think you mentioned something along those lines.

So instead of answering the question, you made a post about not making a post since it would be redundant? Which would clog up the thread as much as an answer, which would have actually made it easier for those catchers up to find your position.

[thellama73]

Could you be transparent with who you think is Kira, Epi?

I an gonna guess he either says, "No", or he says "S~V~S".

I have already expressed my opinions. I am not going to post again simply because a god of death (who voted for me already) asks me to do so. I think it's important that the non-Kira are able to read the thread and make informed decisions. I think some people will visit the thread and see they have dozens of pages to read and instantly feel overwhelmed. I think you mentioned something along those lines.

So instead of answering the question, you made a post about not making a post since it would be redundant? Which would clog up the thread as much as an answer, which would have actually made it easier for those catchers up to find your position.

Maybe he hopes that post will prevent him from having to make future posts, saving space in the long run.

[Turnip Head]

I'm looking back through Epi's posts... do you still suspect Boo and Snowman?

[bea]

awe - I wasn't even gone that long and I was missed. *feels the love* It warms my heart it does.

Just weird scheduling cause me to drop off there yesterday. Stayed up far to late Sat night (6 am) in an attempt to try to figure out how to ninja my hubby's up coming birthday. (Still not very far along on that front sadly ) - Went to bed - woke up in time to make it to work at 4 - closed - came home ate dinner and bed. Just now getting moving and getting some coffee in me.

DH - I said FZ's case felt kinda like a No U as I was reacting to it yes. And yes, it oddly did kinda help ease my feelings toward her. I expected her to bite back and she did. I would have been sketched out if she just sorta blew it off. Does that make more sense? Also my bad feelings about her eased as we talked through out the day more. I wouldn't say she's in my super trust list. I don't think anyone is there yet. But I don't necessicarly think she has earned my vote again either. Does that make more sense?

[Zombarella]

Hey DP! Anything to say?

TBH I really don't know who I'm going to vote today. I'll need to look at posts more.

You were on the thread when I wrote this, yet it took you more than 12 hours to respond.

[DharmaHelper]

awe - I wasn't even gone that long and I was missed. *feels the love* It warms my heart it does.

Just weird scheduling cause me to drop off there yesterday. Stayed up far to late Sat night (6 am) in an attempt to try to figure out how to ninja my hubby's up coming birthday. (Still not very far along on that front sadly ) - Went to bed - woke up in time to make it to work at 4 - closed - came home ate dinner and bed. Just now getting moving and getting some coffee in me.

DH - I said FZ's case felt kinda like a No U as I was reacting to it yes. And yes, it oddly did kinda help ease my feelings toward her. I expected her to bite back and she did. I would have been sketched out if she just sorta blew it off. Does that make more sense? Also my bad feelings about her eased as we talked through out the day more. I wouldn't say she's in my super trust list. I don't think anyone is there yet. But I don't necessicarly think she has earned my vote again either. Does that make more sense?

Let's say it does.

[bea]

good lord I'm redundant first thing in the morning.


lol - dh - if there's anything else I can to to "clarify" let me know. God I suck.

[Epignosis]

Could you be transparent with who you think is Kira, Epi?

I an gonna guess he either says, "No", or he says "S~V~S".

I have already expressed my opinions. I am not going to post again simply because a god of death (who voted for me already) asks me to do so. I think it's important that the non-Kira are able to read the thread and make informed decisions. I think some people will visit the thread and see they have dozens of pages to read and instantly feel overwhelmed. I think you mentioned something along those lines.

So instead of answering the question, you made a post about not making a post since it would be redundant? Which would clog up the thread as much as an answer, which would have actually made it easier for those catchers up to find your position.

Yep.

[Turnip Head]

Did you see my question too Epi?

[FZ.]

Epi I honestly have no idea where you stand on anyone other than you think I'm a shinigami, juliets is Yotsuba, that SVS is not Penber or something, and who can forget your Day 1 case on Russ. None of these tell me who you think Kira is. And yet you keep stressing the importance of finding Kira, and how improbable it is that the detectives will succeed. You seem disinterested in actually helping find Kira, if you ask me, which I know you didn't. But this is not your civvie MO at all.

Very good point. He also seems like he's just looking for reasons not to tell us who he thinks is bad.

[Ricochet]

Zombra I can't figure this out by reading Snowman so I hope you will assist. My questions are below in red:

Whatever, DH, I don't care what you say.

Yesterday I wasn't fully on board with lynching Snowman because I thought the evidence against him wasn't super strong. However, this post (the one below - NOT THE ONE FROM THREE DAYS AGO - has me convinced that he is bad. I am 100% on board with this.

THIS IS THE POST I WAS WAITING FOR:

@ Snowman, in all fairness - what do you think of how Zombra's been playing so far? Is she reading on the up and up to you? Besides llama, who else will you be looking at going into the next lynch?

I do think she's been a straight-shooter so far. The real test would be how she reacts to a legitimate accusation.

Here are my reasons. I know that you all haven't played with Snowman very much so you might not agree right now, but I have played with him for the last 20 years (mind out of the gutter) and once you find out (even if its at the end of the game) that I am a detective and he is bad you are guys are all going to put more stock in my opinion in future games. I am SO excited about this!

1) Snowman is threatened by me - I deduce that he is afraid I am about to figure him out. He wouldn't worry about this unless he was bad. Where and how does he indicate that he is afraid you are going to figure him out? How can you tell that he's worried?
2) Snowman does not think that we are on the same team. I know what team I'm on - so he must be bad.
3) Snowman doesn't want to come out and build a case against me himself because he thinks that I am good and that if you all lynch me and find that out, he will look bad. He wants someone else to build the case against me so they can take the heat when I flip detective. Why do you say this? How can you tell he wants someone else to build a case on you? He doesn't even say you are bad that I can see.

That is my case. I will vote Snowman at the first opportunity. I am officially calling out Llama to support me. He was gung ho to lynch Snowman yesterday. The case against him has only gotten stronger.

Third time's a charm:
Snowman is exceptionally subtle in his implications. I am used to reading him and it's the duality of his post that gives him away. I use that tactic all the time, but he only does it when he feels cornered/guilty. That's really it. I know that you might feel that you don't have any reason to trust me but that's why I'm so excited about this. When we eventually find out that I am right, you will all trust me more

I don't know how juliets feels, but I can't help noticing that you haven't really answered any of her questions in red.

[Marmot]

I'm not touching any of the Day 0 discussion, or really any of Day 1 for that matter. I'm also not touching Epi's vote non-vote for Russ on Day 1, because DH has already beaten that dead horse to a pulp.



So on Day 2, we got some odd behavior from Epi. It feels to me like he's trying to hide something.

I refuse to out other players even if my refusal to do so leads to others voting for me.

Who asked you to do that?

And SVS hit the nail on the head with this observation.

OK, Epi. You just go ahead and don't say anything about something no one asked you to talk about anyhow.

Then here's Epi's voting reasoning on Day 2...

Epi, aside from voting me, which obviously won't do much, who among those with votes are you willing to vote for?

See, this is what drives me bat-shit insane. I'm supposed to vote Snowman now because voting elsewhere won't do much? I will vote where I like, even if that person currently has zero votes.

I really think you are no good FZ.

Followed with an intention to vote for SVS...

Three lynches ending at the same hour.

I am going to vote for S~V~S. Her vote for me was unexplained, as were the three that preceded hers, and I intend to NO-U the hell out of that. Also, she said she wouldn't vote for boo unless there was a "smoking gun." She gives me no such allowance. She has also ignored two of my posts so far.

And another sudden reverse in decisions.

I voted Snowman. S~V~S is now my top suspect.

I didn't understand it then. I don't understand it now. Another instance of "Why didn't you vote Russ?"



Then we come to this post.

I am responding to this post, which I won't quite for the sake of brevity.

The detectives need the four Kira dead to win. That isn't a simplification, as S~V~S claims- that is literally what the host wrote. If the Yotsuba need the detectives dead to win, then:

1. That contradicts what is explicitly stated in the first post,
2. Would make the game 12 vs 14, which is not balanced,
3. And would not need to be a secret.

What I said regarding the Yotsuba early on bears repeating:

What is this "non-Light Mafia"/ "Mafia 2" I keep seeing?

Detectives win when all killers (Kiras) have been stopped and justice has prevailed.

I note that there are four Kiras: Kyosuke Higuchi (Third Kira), Light Yagami (Kira), Misa Amane (Second Kira), Teru Mikami (X Kira). Unless I am reading something incorrectly or the secret win conditions contradict this, these are the only people a detective needs dead to win. I am operating under the belief that the other Lighters play a supporting role, and that lynching them would be helpful for taking down three of the Kiras, but non-essential for victory. The host explicitly identified the killers as Kiras.

And with the exception of Kyosuke Higuchi, none of the Yotsuba are Kiras, and therefore do not need to be dead for a detective to win. I hated looking this up because I am only on episode 6, but according to http://deathnote.wikia.com/wiki/Kyosuke_Higuchi *SPOILERS* The Yotsuba betray Kyosuke Higuchi when they discover he is Kira. The premise sounds just like a Mafia game- eight people who meet, and they all know one of them is the killer but not who. Sounds like an ingenuous opportunity to put a mafia game IN a mafia game. *END SPOILERS*

Let me ask you this if you are a detective: How much closer did you come to satisfying your win condition by lynching birdwithteeth? I'll help you out: You hurt your chances. Why? Because you burned a lynch accomplishing something you didn't need to accomplish. Keep this up, and Kira will eliminate you.

The paranoia regarding independents on this site astounds me.

I ask Epi if he thinks SVS and Snowman are Kiras? He told me he would respond by the end of the night, of which he never did. In fact, Epi hasn't really responded to any of my questions. I don't know if he is intentionally ignoring me or not, but I've lost the ability to refer to him in second person because of this.

But the other point about this post is when it comes down to it, Epi is advocating against the lynching of Yotsuba. As I've said before, I agree with that idea. But as I've also said before, it is convenient for Epi that many players think that Epi is a member of the Yotsuba. Epi also continues to bring them up in conversation (see next point), which continues to draw attention to them. I don't think Epi is Yotsuba, but I think that he is using his current status to his advantage if he can.

And to anyone else who thinks Epi is Yotsuba, please explain why you want to lynch him.



But regarding the Yotsuba, Epi made this firm statement...

That won't happen Boomslang. I have three other people pegged as Yotsuba. I will not talk about them.

But again flipped around on that one. Unprovoked.

That won't happen Boomslang. I have three other people pegged as Yotsuba. I will not talk about them.

I completely understand you not wanting to reveal all your cards, especially when indicating people who might eventually get a kill. The claim that you've got three other Yotsuba suspects is at least interesting new intel. I don't expect you to name names, but can you say if you suspect them for the same reasons as you suspected LC? Would give us something to look for in possible rereads.

I firmly believe juliets is Yotsuba.

She'll deny it, and I refuse to give my reasoning, but I think I'm right.

I don't understand why he feels the need to call certain people out as certain roles, especially after stating he would not do such a thing. He's (probably) right that Kira nor the detectives need the Yotsuba dead to win, but that's one less person for them to worry about targeting now (unless he lied on purpose). And why does he continue to bring up the Yotsuba if, as he's stated numerous times, we don't need them dead?



Here's a strange inconsistency. He acknowledged doing the same thing boo did...

Boo, you said that Snowman hasn't had a chance to defend himself. I disagree. It has been more than 24 hours since the Day has started.

How long do you consider to be an adequate "chance to defend oneself" before you would be comfortable voting for someone (not necessarily Snowman)?

A reasonable person would wait until they have to actually vote or risk missing the vote before deciding the person isn't going to respond.

Like I did with Russ...and then decided not to since no one had voted him moments before poll close?

And turned around and accused boo for what he did...

Boo, you said that Snowman hasn't had a chance to defend himself. I disagree. It has been more than 24 hours since the Day has started.

How long do you consider to be an adequate "chance to defend oneself" before you would be comfortable voting for someone (not necessarily Snowman)?

A reasonable person would wait until they have to actually vote or risk missing the vote before deciding the person isn't going to respond.

So your contention is that Snowman "has not had the chance to respond" until the very moment of the poll closing? Surely you can see that this is madness.

If a potential voter is there right before the poll closes? Yes. If you have to vote 5 hours before it closes, then 5 hours is the answer. 24, 24, Etc, etc.

Unless we know for a fact he is here and is just choosing not to respond, he hasn't had the chance to respond. And since he and Zomba have both not posted in quite sometime, and it is friday night, it seems perfectly reasonable to say they just haven't been here today or tonight, which is why neither of them have posted.

I'm not sure what part of this is difficult to understand.

You have stated that there is no point of any duration at which you will consider a player to have had ample chance to respond to a vote. The implication is that any player can avoid your vote by not posting and not visiting the thread.

What is hard to understand is how this relates to your earlier statements about non-participants.

I agree with llama. This is yet another dissonance.

But after everything that happened, Epi found himself on boo's side of the argument. No explanation.

I want to make it clear that, despite boo's novel, I have no intention of voting llama today.

And then I've got a list of questions or comments I've asked, directed at Epi, but got no response. This list contains only game-related topics, but also includes points I've expounded on above.
1) Here - Although I acknowledged this question as rhetorical, I'm pointing it out again because this is one of the strangest posts I've seen from this mafia player.
2) Here - He didn't address my vote for him yesterday (or today). I am surprised by this. Should I be?
3) Here - I commented on something Epi did in which he proudly claims he doesn't do here.
4) Here - I brought up his vote yesterday again. Russgate, Take 2.
5) Here - Again, Epi addressed this, but never answered this question.
6) Here - The point about talking about Yotsuba.


I realize some of these points are weak, but my feelings on the matter are not.

[Turnip Head]

Well done, Metalmarsh! Don't be surprised if you make it into the Case Maker rankings as a result of your efforts here today!

[Zombarella]

Another thing to consider: Llama said he didn't think that someone who LC accused was the one who killed him, but when Llama and I were baddies together in Harry Potter mafia, Llama killed Dom while Dom was going after him, with no hesitation. He actually sent the kill PM before even discussing it in chat, that's how much he wanted Dom dead right at that moment So I think it's in Llama's wheelhouse to kill like that, despite what he's said in this game, and I think it's in Epi's arsenal as well.

That was one of the points I was going to bring up as well when I finished my catch up. There are a few players in this game that will kill just to shut them up, myself included. I will never believe that those kills are just set ups. Most people will kill someone before their voice is heard. IF LC was right about any of the people he was accusing now would be the perfect time to strike in hopes that the thread would forget about it.

I was actually thinking about this last night. I want to go back and read LC.

[Marmot]

Epi I honestly have no idea where you stand on anyone other than you think I'm a shinigami, juliets is Yotsuba, that SVS is not Penber or something, and who can forget your Day 1 case on Russ. None of these tell me who you think Kira is. And yet you keep stressing the importance of finding Kira, and how improbable it is that the detectives will succeed. You seem disinterested in actually helping find Kira, if you ask me, which I know you didn't. But this is not your civvie MO at all.

I completely forgot to talk about this, but I didn't see anything about Kira-suspicions in the thread when I was rereading him, so nothing to say really.

Linki @TH: Did you read it?

[Turnip Head]

Yes, though not the stuff you linked to. But you brought up some points that I hope Epi addresses.

[Marmot]

Zomba's new avi makes me want to vote for Snowman. Yay propaganda!

[DharmaHelper]

You know what, fuck it. I'm gonna vote Epi now. He is either a baddie pulling this stunt, or he is somehow not a baddie, but completely disinterested in making any kind of sense. Dead weight either way. Voting now :P

[Marmot]

You know what, fuck it. I'm gonna vote Epi now. He is either a baddie pulling this stunt, or he is somehow not a baddie, but completely disinterested in making any kind of sense. Dead weight either way. Voting now :P

Why didn't you vote Zomberella?

[DharmaHelper]

You know what, fuck it. I'm gonna vote Epi now. He is either a baddie pulling this stunt, or he is somehow not a baddie, but completely disinterested in making any kind of sense. Dead weight either way. Voting now :P

Why didn't you vote Zomberella?

*Something about Yotsuba being an independent team*

*Artificial indignation*

[Zombarella]

@ Snowman, in all fairness - what do you think of how Zombra's been playing so far? Is she reading on the up and up to you? Besides llama, who else will you be looking at going into the next lynch?

I do think she's been a straight-shooter so far. The real test would be how she reacts to a legitimate accusation.

I don't know how juliets feels, but I can't help noticing that you haven't really answered any of her questions in red.

1) Snowman is threatened by me - I deduce that he is afraid I am about to figure him out. He wouldn't worry about this unless he was bad. Where and how does he indicate that he is afraid you are going to figure him out? How can you tell that he's worried?
2) Snowman does not think that we are on the same team. I know what team I'm on - so he must be bad.
3) Snowman doesn't want to come out and build a case against me himself because he thinks that I am good and that if you all lynch me and find that out, he will look bad. He wants someone else to build the case against me so they can take the heat when I flip detective. Why do you say this? How can you tell he wants someone else to build a case on you? He doesn't even say you are bad that I can see.

The fact that he made the post about me tells me that he finds me as a threat. Look at his posts, he has done no baddie hunting. His posts are all defensive or jokes. Coming from Snowman, this is a defensive post. My name is in it, that means its about me. I get that the words are benign, but its the post's existence and form that alerts me.

I know that he wants someone else to build the case for two reasons: 1) he suggests that an accusations should be made against me in order to assess my response 2) he doesn't make that accusation himself. Remember that he finished a PhD in Psychology. I cannot stress how important this is. The words he uses are not what they seem.

[Zombarella]

You know what, fuck it. I'm gonna vote Epi now. He is either a baddie pulling this stunt, or he is somehow not a baddie, but completely disinterested in making any kind of sense. Dead weight either way. Voting now :P

Why didn't you vote Zomberella?

Cause I'm good.

[Zombarella]

Zomba's new avi makes me want to vote for Snowman. Yay propaganda!

My job here is done!

[Ricochet]

One lingering thing for me since D2 was the way FZ. led the BWT lynch. I think Llama called her on trying to manipulate the last hour of voting. For me, it's more the wording of her posts back then. I don't think I've ever seen so far somebody lobbying for players to "stop" voting for someone (in this case Snowman) or to "please consider" voting for the one she wants lynched (in this case BWT). Adding to that: her obvious disapproval and row with Epig, finding his wasting his vote and such. I am aware that many are feeling better about her right now, probably because she started being the more active player people expected (in which case she either is indeed warming up her usual gameplay or adapting to the requests), but what happened back then still pinged me completely, I'd say.

Unlike Boo, when I think someone is wrongfully being lynched, I'm going to do everything I can to stop it, even at the risk of looking bad. And sometimes I do end up looking bad because that person turns out bad. With all that's been going on the last day regarding Snowman's behaviour and Zomba's feelings about him, I'm starting to wonder if I was wrong.
But I would really like to know what you think I would gain from doing such an obvious and strong interfering?

I cannot project speculation on what would you gain from interfering with the vote on him, but I had seen no signals from your posts as to why Snowman is such a special case of "wrongfully being lynched" that you would need to be so imperative. But as I've said, the wording itself seemed to me so entirely uncharacteristic from any voting instance I've witness so far in gaming.

[zeek]

Very convincing case, MM, I hadn't put together all those inconsistencies from Epi. Although I'm not sure on you, your points are persuasive. I may vote Epi if he convince me otherwise.

I really don't know what to make of all the strange behaviour in this game tbh, feels like it's going to be quite a random game.

[bea]

MM - nice case! :nod: I'll admit, I've just kinda been skimming Epi - looking for stuff that actually helps and sorta ignoring the wonky. I could see myself voting there.

OMG Zombra's avi. You two have a super fun marriage don't you?

So, I think it was SVS (?) thinking that the LC kill was probably done by a Rev player. Does anyone have any feelings on this? BR - any ideas on who might have wanted LC out of the picture?

Hubby has a dental apt in like an hour - not sure if we are running around between then and our dinner date, but I will keep up on my phone (what else am I going to do while I'm sitting in the waiting room? )

[Ricochet]

@ Snowman, in all fairness - what do you think of how Zombra's been playing so far? Is she reading on the up and up to you? Besides llama, who else will you be looking at going into the next lynch?

I do think she's been a straight-shooter so far. The real test would be how she reacts to a legitimate accusation.

I don't know how juliets feels, but I can't help noticing that you haven't really answered any of her questions in red.

1) Snowman is threatened by me - I deduce that he is afraid I am about to figure him out. He wouldn't worry about this unless he was bad. Where and how does he indicate that he is afraid you are going to figure him out? How can you tell that he's worried?
2) Snowman does not think that we are on the same team. I know what team I'm on - so he must be bad.
3) Snowman doesn't want to come out and build a case against me himself because he thinks that I am good and that if you all lynch me and find that out, he will look bad. He wants someone else to build the case against me so they can take the heat when I flip detective. Why do you say this? How can you tell he wants someone else to build a case on you? He doesn't even say you are bad that I can see.

The fact that he made the post about me tells me that he finds me as a threat. Look at his posts, he has done no baddie hunting. His posts are all defensive or jokes. Coming from Snowman, this is a defensive post. My name is in it, that means its about me. I get that the words are benign, but its the post's existence and form that alerts me.

I know that he wants someone else to build the case for two reasons: 1) he suggests that an accusations should be made against me in order to assess my response 2) he doesn't make that accusation himself. Remember that he finished a PhD in Psychology. I cannot stress how important this is. The words he uses are not what they seem.

You don't have to tell me he's doing no baddie hunting and that his posts are all defensive or jokes, since I voted him for that. The next part, that I underlined, doesn't make any sense as to why you find him suspicious - and more importantly, bad - though. Was he supposed not to answer at all when being asked what he thinks about you? Also, regarding 1), I think others have pointed already that he may have meant you seem genuine so far, but that it will be more telling how you will react to accusations. And that you procedeed to sort of prove his point, by reacting to accusations he didn't even make in that post.

[Zombarella]

@ Bea - I can't believe that you aren't taking me seriously. Also, what is a Rev player?

[Marmot]

@ Bea - I can't believe that you aren't taking me seriously. Also, what is a Rev player?

Someone from here. As of this morning, I am member there. But the place is pretty barren right now.