The Syndicate

Epignosis wrote: ↑Sat Aug 24, 2019 11:14 pm When I played, I had fun. That's important.

Owner of a Lonely Heart wrote: ↑Sat Aug 24, 2019 11:17 pm I thought the mafia team had specifically chosen to kill me with the bomb, but nope, just a flat rng.... : PerC Dry emoji :

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Sat Aug 24, 2019 11:18 pm

Epignosis wrote: ↑Sat Aug 24, 2019 11:14 pm When I played, I had fun. That's important.

Thanks, Epi. And sorry for any annoyance caused. Truth is, I've made and hosted about 10 role madness games so far. Only 2 really left me satisfied: Hogwarts and Ace Attorney. This one was one of my best ones I think, but still doesn't ompare to those too. It seems making a perfect RM game is a huge task.

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Sat Aug 24, 2019 11:19 pm

Owner of a Lonely Heart wrote: ↑Sat Aug 24, 2019 11:17 pm I thought the mafia team had specifically chosen to kill me with the bomb, but nope, just a flat rng.... : PerC Dry emoji :

That sucks, but it could have been worse. Could have lynched Quin again.

Epignosis wrote: ↑Sat Aug 24, 2019 11:20 pm

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Sat Aug 24, 2019 11:18 pm

Epignosis wrote: ↑Sat Aug 24, 2019 11:14 pm When I played, I had fun. That's important.

Thanks, Epi. And sorry for any annoyance caused. Truth is, I've made and hosted about 10 role madness games so far. Only 2 really left me satisfied: Hogwarts and Ace Attorney. This one was one of my best ones I think, but still doesn't ompare to those too. It seems making a perfect RM game is a huge task.

Don't sweat it.

Early Epi death = Juliets is bad.

Go from there.

Owner of a Lonely Heart wrote: ↑Sat Aug 24, 2019 11:17 pm I thought the mafia team had specifically chosen to kill me with the bomb, but nope, just a flat rng.... : PerC Dry emoji :

Epignosis wrote: ↑Sat Aug 24, 2019 11:20 pm

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Sat Aug 24, 2019 11:18 pm

Epignosis wrote: ↑Sat Aug 24, 2019 11:14 pm When I played, I had fun. That's important.

Thanks, Epi. And sorry for any annoyance caused. Truth is, I've made and hosted about 10 role madness games so far. Only 2 really left me satisfied: Hogwarts and Ace Attorney. This one was one of my best ones I think, but still doesn't ompare to those too. It seems making a perfect RM game is a huge task.

Don't sweat it.

Early Epi death = Juliets is bad.

Go from there.

Owner of a Lonely Heart wrote: ↑Sat Aug 24, 2019 11:17 pm I thought the mafia team had specifically chosen to kill me with the bomb, but nope, just a flat rng.... : PerC Dry emoji :

timmer wrote: ↑Sun Aug 25, 2019 4:07 am Thanks for the game, everyone!

I knew juliets was off but didn't know how to show it... and you know, sometimes I really am just busy and following the game without posting much, because I'm truly have little to add. I never know how to defend against charges that that means that I'm bad, it's happened for years. I really do prefer to follow when I lack the insight to push the game in a direction. But serious question, what am I supposed to say to charges that my lack of output means I'm bad, if I lack the time to force output?

Quin wrote: ↑Sat Aug 24, 2019 6:13 pm Aw. So close. But it really was a stretch for me to stand a good chance of winning this. When I subbed in the game was more or less solved and most of the popular lynch candidates weren't sparks.

In the end, if I'd had juliets lynched today, I'd have boosted Michelle's vote tonight and won with mafia by lynching the last spark tomorrow. Town had already lost the game on Day 10 unless they managed some lucky tie shenanigans, I'm assuming jack was aware of that which is why he wouldn't go for juliets. Phooey.

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Sat Aug 24, 2019 11:19 pm

Owner of a Lonely Heart wrote: ↑Sat Aug 24, 2019 11:17 pm I thought the mafia team had specifically chosen to kill me with the bomb, but nope, just a flat rng.... : PerC Dry emoji :

That sucks, but it could have been worse. Could have lynched Quin again.

juliets wrote: ↑Sat Aug 24, 2019 10:21 pm

Dom wrote: ↑Sat Aug 24, 2019 10:02 pm

Quin wrote: ↑Sat Aug 24, 2019 6:13 pm Aw. So close. But it really was a stretch for me to stand a good chance of winning this. When I subbed in the game was more or less solved and most of the popular lynch candidates weren't sparks.

In the end, if I'd had juliets lynched today, I'd have boosted Michelle's vote tonight and won with mafia by lynching the last spark tomorrow. Town had already lost the game on Day 10 unless they managed some lucky tie shenanigans, I'm assuming jack was aware of that which is why he wouldn't go for juliets. Phooey.

I would have killed Michelle at night.

Did you have a strongman kill? I can't remember. She would have blocked you but if you had a strongman it would have gotten her.

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Sat Aug 24, 2019 10:40 pm This game was a stomp. Mafia was much better than the civilians, as observed by how the civilians had an incredibly low scum lynch ratio.

Granted, you guys spent half the games milling through the indies, but if civs and indies only attack each other that means the mafia is doing well.

The only reason the game wasn't over by Day 8, which it should when civs are that bad at lynching mafia, is because of the Tarvek role. That role was allowed to be that good because I assumed it would be balanced by its inability to detect culted civilians. But nutella died too early so Jack was allowed to build a perfect PoE, which ended up breaching through the non-claim rule (something I allowed it to do or the role would have been pointless), and turn the endgame into a boring stalemate. Mafia was able to power through in the end because I like to ensure mafia always has the tools to shut down civilians who reveal their abilities in the open (like they did here), as well as prevent civs from beating mafia with abilities only. Civs need to lynch, and civs didn't lynch mafia in this game. At least not until Jack started monopolizing it with his role.

Juliets was one-shot BP. Big deal. So was Higgs an most of the indies. In a game with so many kills, mafia also needs kill protection. Everything in mafia's arsenal was meant to counter something the civs had.

The Take 5 Bomb was considerably more powerful. But town had a revive, which Mac could have had used but he decided to save it for later for some reason and then mafia managed to cop him and take him down before he could). And the Take 5 Bomb pratically ensured the saved mafioso would die next day, unless they pulled a huge vote fliparound, as well as blocked and silenced 2 mafiosos.

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Sat Aug 24, 2019 10:57 pm

Epignosis wrote: ↑Sat Aug 24, 2019 10:54 pm When you want to balance something, look at your game and ask yourself this:

"I am signing up for this game. Which side do I want to be on?"

Honestly, I went in thinking the civs had the highest risk of being OP.

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sun Aug 25, 2019 9:08 am

Quin wrote: ↑Sat Aug 24, 2019 6:13 pm Aw. So close. But it really was a stretch for me to stand a good chance of winning this. When I subbed in the game was more or less solved and most of the popular lynch candidates weren't sparks.

In the end, if I'd had juliets lynched today, I'd have boosted Michelle's vote tonight and won with mafia by lynching the last spark tomorrow. Town had already lost the game on Day 10 unless they managed some lucky tie shenanigans, I'm assuming jack was aware of that which is why he wouldn't go for juliets. Phooey.

Oh or this plan works too but lynching Quin would be fun

Quin wrote: ↑Sat Aug 24, 2019 6:13 pm Aw. So close. But it really was a stretch for me to stand a good chance of winning this. When I subbed in the game was more or less solved and most of the popular lynch candidates weren't sparks.

In the end, if I'd had juliets lynched today, I'd have boosted Michelle's vote tonight and won with mafia by lynching the last spark tomorrow. Town had already lost the game on Day 10 unless they managed some lucky tie shenanigans, I'm assuming jack was aware of that which is why he wouldn't go for juliets. Phooey.

Dom wrote: ↑Sat Aug 24, 2019 10:02 pm

Quin wrote: ↑Sat Aug 24, 2019 6:13 pm Aw. So close. But it really was a stretch for me to stand a good chance of winning this. When I subbed in the game was more or less solved and most of the popular lynch candidates weren't sparks.

In the end, if I'd had juliets lynched today, I'd have boosted Michelle's vote tonight and won with mafia by lynching the last spark tomorrow. Town had already lost the game on Day 10 unless they managed some lucky tie shenanigans, I'm assuming jack was aware of that which is why he wouldn't go for juliets. Phooey.

I would have killed Michelle at night.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Sun Aug 25, 2019 11:03 am

Quin wrote: ↑Sat Aug 24, 2019 6:13 pm Aw. So close. But it really was a stretch for me to stand a good chance of winning this. When I subbed in the game was more or less solved and most of the popular lynch candidates weren't sparks.

In the end, if I'd had juliets lynched today, I'd have boosted Michelle's vote tonight and won with mafia by lynching the last spark tomorrow. Town had already lost the game on Day 10 unless they managed some lucky tie shenanigans, I'm assuming jack was aware of that which is why he wouldn't go for juliets. Phooey.

Yeah. I assumed we were playing an ugly game of chicken where we lose if we vote Juliets, you lose if you vote Michelle and everyone loses if nobody moves.

Dom wrote: ↑Sun Aug 25, 2019 10:39 am I didn't out myself. They had a role check. It was only obvious what was going on when there were literally only civs who had had BTSC left and Mafia who had btsc left. That wasn't my doing.
Baddies have significantly more information than any one civilian. And they can leverage it better. That's the trade off for fewer numbers.

Quin wrote: ↑Sun Aug 25, 2019 11:08 am

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Sun Aug 25, 2019 11:03 am

Quin wrote: ↑Sat Aug 24, 2019 6:13 pm Aw. So close. But it really was a stretch for me to stand a good chance of winning this. When I subbed in the game was more or less solved and most of the popular lynch candidates weren't sparks.

In the end, if I'd had juliets lynched today, I'd have boosted Michelle's vote tonight and won with mafia by lynching the last spark tomorrow. Town had already lost the game on Day 10 unless they managed some lucky tie shenanigans, I'm assuming jack was aware of that which is why he wouldn't go for juliets. Phooey.

Yeah. I assumed we were playing an ugly game of chicken where we lose if we vote Juliets, you lose if you vote Michelle and everyone loses if nobody moves.

To be honest, at first I was considering voting Michelle just giving you the win, mainly because I'd subbed in more or less when the game was already solved (and Quin 1.0 was townie, I guess). But I figured that wasn't fair to DDL and the role he designed, so I went with the juliets lynch to try pull it off.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Sun Aug 25, 2019 11:01 am Lol at Michelle attempting to convince Dom she wasn't scum up until the deadline when she had been mechanically outed like 3 phases prior.

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Sun Aug 25, 2019 11:35 am

Quin wrote: ↑Sun Aug 25, 2019 11:08 am

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Sun Aug 25, 2019 11:03 am

Quin wrote: ↑Sat Aug 24, 2019 6:13 pm Aw. So close. But it really was a stretch for me to stand a good chance of winning this. When I subbed in the game was more or less solved and most of the popular lynch candidates weren't sparks.

In the end, if I'd had juliets lynched today, I'd have boosted Michelle's vote tonight and won with mafia by lynching the last spark tomorrow. Town had already lost the game on Day 10 unless they managed some lucky tie shenanigans, I'm assuming jack was aware of that which is why he wouldn't go for juliets. Phooey.

Yeah. I assumed we were playing an ugly game of chicken where we lose if we vote Juliets, you lose if you vote Michelle and everyone loses if nobody moves.

To be honest, at first I was considering voting Michelle just giving you the win, mainly because I'd subbed in more or less when the game was already solved (and Quin 1.0 was townie, I guess). But I figured that wasn't fair to DDL and the role he designed, so I went with the juliets lynch to try pull it off.

I thank you for playing your role to the best of your ability, even though you had an unlucky situation to face (most sparks survived longer than they should have).

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Sun Aug 25, 2019 11:30 am A mafia team that can punish civs who openly claim each other is a good thing. That's why most mafia teams have roleblocks, it's basic protection against civ role abuse.

Dom wrote: ↑Sun Aug 25, 2019 10:39 am

juliets wrote: ↑Sat Aug 24, 2019 10:21 pm

Dom wrote: ↑Sat Aug 24, 2019 10:02 pm

Quin wrote: ↑Sat Aug 24, 2019 6:13 pm Aw. So close. But it really was a stretch for me to stand a good chance of winning this. When I subbed in the game was more or less solved and most of the popular lynch candidates weren't sparks.

In the end, if I'd had juliets lynched today, I'd have boosted Michelle's vote tonight and won with mafia by lynching the last spark tomorrow. Town had already lost the game on Day 10 unless they managed some lucky tie shenanigans, I'm assuming jack was aware of that which is why he wouldn't go for juliets. Phooey.

I would have killed Michelle at night.

Did you have a strongman kill? I can't remember. She would have blocked you but if you had a strongman it would have gotten her.

...why did she have a block too? How many blocks did you guys have?
I became an entirely useless player very quickly and you had a role check.
Like--- which baddie in their right mind isn't blocking me every single night? I couldn't block anyone every night. I couldn't protect anyone every night. I couldn't track anyone every night.

Though-- I just remembered I could have forced you to vote for yourself or Michelle for you because DDL differentiated that into a day power, not a night power.

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Sat Aug 24, 2019 10:40 pm This game was a stomp. Mafia was much better than the civilians, as observed by how the civilians had an incredibly low scum lynch ratio.

Granted, you guys spent half the games milling through the indies, but if civs and indies only attack each other that means the mafia is doing well.

The only reason the game wasn't over by Day 8, which it should when civs are that bad at lynching mafia, is because of the Tarvek role. That role was allowed to be that good because I assumed it would be balanced by its inability to detect culted civilians. But nutella died too early so Jack was allowed to build a perfect PoE, which ended up breaching through the non-claim rule (something I allowed it to do or the role would have been pointless), and turn the endgame into a boring stalemate. Mafia was able to power through in the end because I like to ensure mafia always has the tools to shut down civilians who reveal their abilities in the open (like they did here), as well as prevent civs from beating mafia with abilities only. Civs need to lynch, and civs didn't lynch mafia in this game. At least not until Jack started monopolizing it with his role.

Juliets was one-shot BP. Big deal. So was Higgs an most of the indies. In a game with so many kills, mafia also needs kill protection. Everything in mafia's arsenal was meant to counter something the civs had.

The Take 5 Bomb was considerably more powerful. But town had a revive, which Mac could have had used but he decided to save it for later for some reason and then mafia managed to cop him and take him down before he could). And the Take 5 Bomb pratically ensured the saved mafioso would die next day, unless they pulled a huge vote fliparound, as well as blocked and silenced 2 mafiosos.

I didn't out myself. They had a role check. It was only obvious what was going on when there were literally only civs who had had BTSC left and Mafia who had btsc left. That wasn't my doing.
Baddies have significantly more information than any one civilian. And they can leverage it better. That's the trade off for fewer numbers.

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Sat Aug 24, 2019 10:57 pm

Epignosis wrote: ↑Sat Aug 24, 2019 10:54 pm When you want to balance something, look at your game and ask yourself this:

"I am signing up for this game. Which side do I want to be on?"

Honestly, I went in thinking the civs had the highest risk of being OP.

When they can be role checked and then blocked indefinitely, nah.



I had a lot of fun though. It just became apparent that we couldn't win very quickly after I was infinitely blocked.

Quin wrote: ↑Sun Aug 25, 2019 11:43 am

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Sun Aug 25, 2019 11:35 am

Quin wrote: ↑Sun Aug 25, 2019 11:08 am

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Sun Aug 25, 2019 11:03 am

Quin wrote: ↑Sat Aug 24, 2019 6:13 pm Aw. So close. But it really was a stretch for me to stand a good chance of winning this. When I subbed in the game was more or less solved and most of the popular lynch candidates weren't sparks.

In the end, if I'd had juliets lynched today, I'd have boosted Michelle's vote tonight and won with mafia by lynching the last spark tomorrow. Town had already lost the game on Day 10 unless they managed some lucky tie shenanigans, I'm assuming jack was aware of that which is why he wouldn't go for juliets. Phooey.

Yeah. I assumed we were playing an ugly game of chicken where we lose if we vote Juliets, you lose if you vote Michelle and everyone loses if nobody moves.

To be honest, at first I was considering voting Michelle just giving you the win, mainly because I'd subbed in more or less when the game was already solved (and Quin 1.0 was townie, I guess). But I figured that wasn't fair to DDL and the role he designed, so I went with the juliets lynch to try pull it off.

I thank you for playing your role to the best of your ability, even though you had an unlucky situation to face (most sparks survived longer than they should have).

Seeing TSP dead last night instead of Dom or Jack was the biggest surprise I've gotten from a NK. That needed to get shut down days ago.

Dom wrote: ↑Sun Aug 25, 2019 11:52 am Especially when they have a permanent -1 in the polls.

Quin wrote: ↑Sun Aug 25, 2019 11:43 am

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Sun Aug 25, 2019 11:35 am

Quin wrote: ↑Sun Aug 25, 2019 11:08 am

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Sun Aug 25, 2019 11:03 am

Quin wrote: ↑Sat Aug 24, 2019 6:13 pm Aw. So close. But it really was a stretch for me to stand a good chance of winning this. When I subbed in the game was more or less solved and most of the popular lynch candidates weren't sparks.

In the end, if I'd had juliets lynched today, I'd have boosted Michelle's vote tonight and won with mafia by lynching the last spark tomorrow. Town had already lost the game on Day 10 unless they managed some lucky tie shenanigans, I'm assuming jack was aware of that which is why he wouldn't go for juliets. Phooey.

Yeah. I assumed we were playing an ugly game of chicken where we lose if we vote Juliets, you lose if you vote Michelle and everyone loses if nobody moves.

To be honest, at first I was considering voting Michelle just giving you the win, mainly because I'd subbed in more or less when the game was already solved (and Quin 1.0 was townie, I guess). But I figured that wasn't fair to DDL and the role he designed, so I went with the juliets lynch to try pull it off.

I thank you for playing your role to the best of your ability, even though you had an unlucky situation to face (most sparks survived longer than they should have).

Seeing TSP dead last night instead of Dom or Jack was the biggest surprise I've gotten from a NK. That needed to get shut down days ago.

Epignosis wrote: ↑Sat Aug 24, 2019 10:12 pm Too many lynches had to go right, and civilians weren't afforded enough of them. DDL, how were the civilians expected to win?

"The Baron has a good reputation as a keeper of peace. He appears as civilian on investigations."

" [Construct Body]: The Baron has an abnormal body. He survives the first regular kill that hits him."

"Juliets used Take 5 Bomb to remove herself and Michelle from the poll."

When you ensure mafia can't be lynched or killed, mafia win.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Sun Aug 25, 2019 1:59 pm When did I hint Dom was Agatha?

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Sun Aug 25, 2019 1:59 pm When did I hint Dom was Agatha?

Epignosis wrote: ↑Sat Aug 24, 2019 10:35 pm Civilians needed nutella dead (not mafia).

Civilians needed Lunalee dead (not mafia).

Civilians needed sprityo dead (not mafia).

Civilians needed five more people dead.

That's eight.

That's too many.

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Sat Aug 24, 2019 10:40 pm This game was a stomp. Mafia was much better than the civilians, as observed by how the civilians had an incredibly low scum lynch ratio.