The Syndicate

FZ. wrote:I'm okay with a Boomslang vote, though it's kind of worrying that everyone is okay with a Boomslang vote

FZ. wrote:I'd also like to point that I don't think I trust any of the JJJ voters, except for maybe LC. I think Wilgy is trying a different scum game where it's all jokes and no business from him. If not, he should start being more productive.

MM did not contribute anything to the game since I joined it, and Dom, well, I'm not sure what to make of him yet, but he's not on my highly trusted group for sure.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

FZ. wrote:I'm okay with a Boomslang vote, though it's kind of worrying that everyone is okay with a Boomslang vote

Yeah that is a thing, isn't it. Off the top of my head...

JJJ
FZ
Golden
llama
LC
Epignosis (awaiting Boomslang response)

All have voiced willingness to lynch/suspicion of Boomslang since I put that case up.

It should also be noted that only two people have actually placed the vote though (the two people currently at greatest risk of being lynched).

juliets wrote:First, i agree with FZ. regarding the JJJ voters. I was thinking about who I trusted out of that list when you posted.

Second, JJJ I am also willing to put in a Boomslang vote especially since two people I see as leaning good have already voted him. Like Epig though, I would like to see his response before I make a final decision. On the contrary side, like people are saying, this is beginning to look like a rush to Boomslang which makes me uneasy.

juliets wrote:First, i agree with FZ. regarding the JJJ voters. I was thinking about who I trusted out of that list when you posted.

Second, JJJ I am also willing to put in a Boomslang vote especially since two people I see as leaning good have already voted him. Like Epig though, I would like to see his response before I make a final decision. On the contrary side, like people are saying, this is beginning to look like a rush to Boomslang which makes me uneasy.

FZ. wrote:The more people talk, the more confused I get. llama has a way of making me go back on my suspicion. That said, no one really replied to what I asked about him before. I'll post it again:

FZ. wrote: I asked llama why he feels different to me than his normal civ game, and now I'll say what I think his civ game is like, and people can tell me if they see it or not.

Often, when llama is suspected he tends to disregard those accusations with a kind of condescending remark like "you don't scare me", and the likes. He similarly addresses his suspicions in that way as well. For example, I remember a game when he was very suspicious of me (I think it was death note), where he just said something like "nobody is buying what you're selling". When he builds a case, he quotes a lot and shows how those quotes lead to the person being bad. He tends to be cocky in his suspicions, thinking he can't be wrong, or even if he can be wrong, still push his suspicion until he gets his lynch, when he feels someone is bad.

I am not seeing any of that here. I've waited and waited, and even asked him if there's a reason he could think of, to why I don't feel he's being his usual civ. His answer that he's more busy does not explain the attitude. It can explain less posts and maybe less involvement, but I assume the attitude would still be there when he found something he didn't like. Right now, it just looks like he's leaning on what Golden says and replies to him, instead of leading the conversation and pushing him.

Can those familiar with llama's game please tell me if they see what I see?

thellama73 wrote:

FZ. wrote:The more people talk, the more confused I get. llama has a way of making me go back on my suspicion. That said, no one really replied to what I asked about him before. I'll post it again:

FZ. wrote: I asked llama why he feels different to me than his normal civ game, and now I'll say what I think his civ game is like, and people can tell me if they see it or not.

Often, when llama is suspected he tends to disregard those accusations with a kind of condescending remark like "you don't scare me", and the likes. He similarly addresses his suspicions in that way as well. For example, I remember a game when he was very suspicious of me (I think it was death note), where he just said something like "nobody is buying what you're selling". When he builds a case, he quotes a lot and shows how those quotes lead to the person being bad. He tends to be cocky in his suspicions, thinking he can't be wrong, or even if he can be wrong, still push his suspicion until he gets his lynch, when he feels someone is bad.

I am not seeing any of that here. I've waited and waited, and even asked him if there's a reason he could think of, to why I don't feel he's being his usual civ. His answer that he's more busy does not explain the attitude. It can explain less posts and maybe less involvement, but I assume the attitude would still be there when he found something he didn't like. Right now, it just looks like he's leaning on what Golden says and replies to him, instead of leading the conversation and pushing him.

Can those familiar with llama's game please tell me if they see what I see?

My response to this is thta it was never my intention to push a case on Golden. The sequence of events was: 1. I said I wanted to look at people who painted a target on Fuzz's back. 2. Golden came at me hard. 3. I defended myself, and in the process saw some stuff that made me suspicious of Golden, but I am far from convinced that he is bad. I was much more confident about Sig.

Also, if you look at my recent games (which I don't really expect you to do) you will see that big case building llama hasn't been around for a while. It just takes more time and commitment than I have been able to muster in the last six months or so.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:It's always possible that contextual details are overlooked in an ISO. It's a restricted view of thread content, deliberately. From the Boomslang ISO, it looked to me like he was frequently asking people to measure their read on him against the behavior of Tranq, and I think it's reasonable for me to find that suspicious. If I did miss important context, then could you please display it here instead of just talk about it? I don't remember each of these sectors of the thread clearly enough to follow your train of thought without quotes.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Spoiler: show

Boomslang wrote:

Long Con wrote:*votes Boomslang*

Boomslang was the first vote I cast in the game, as I recall, because he made me suspicious back then:

Spoiler: show

Long Con wrote:

Epignosis wrote:

Boomslang wrote:Tranq's slip of calling Finn McMissile mafia (the role was part of a second civ team) is too easily fact-checkable to be intentional, imo.

It wasn't a slip. It was Tranq being a nub. Hence my opening post.

What I'm seeing here is, on the surface, a possible Boomslang-Tranq baddie teamup. That's just surface though, and I don't really think that's what's going on here.

However, my ideal civ-mindset would hold back and wait to see if anyone jumps on Tranq opportunistically, rather than defuse the situation with some textbook "let's not get too finger-pointy" sanity. Short-term "obvious Civ" statements can be long-term "don't worry about me, I'm cooler than being cool" baddie groundwork.

And recently his sig vote twanged me in the twingiest of ways. So, Day 3 starts with a vote on him, foremost of my suspicions.

Never thought too much about it before, but Boomslang is a pretty kick ass handle.

Do you think Tranq is civ? Do you think his behavior over the past few nights has changed the value of that (very early) post of mine?

It's Day 3.0 and I'm still seeing this -- Boomslang asking people to read him based upon the behavior of someone else (Tranq). I do not like that.

FZ. wrote:I'm okay with a Boomslang vote, though it's kind of worrying that everyone is okay with a Boomslang vote

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:I have to go to sleep soon. The discussion has moved nicely but the tally remains particularly gross. If I get lynched that'll be two town lynches in a row for me, and that's not how JJJ plays ball.

Golden wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:I have to go to sleep soon. The discussion has moved nicely but the tally remains particularly gross. If I get lynched that'll be two town lynches in a row for me, and that's not how JJJ plays ball.

I'm willing to shift to boomslang, but I'm not going to shift my vote if it puts you in jeopardy of a lynch.

HamburgerBoy wrote:

FZ. wrote:I'm okay with a Boomslang vote, though it's kind of worrying that everyone is okay with a Boomslang vote

Why are you OK with a Boomslang vote?

FZ. wrote:Hi

I was really hoping that if I have to replace it will be when there are less players, because it's really hard for me to keep up with this level of reading and catching up.
I can't promise to read back everything, but I'll try skimming. If anyone wants to summarize the important stuff, that would be great, but I'm not holding my breath.

I started reading from a little bit after the lynch.

This post caught my eye:

Boomslang wrote:Well, I had no idea this lynch result was even possible, but I'm pretty pleased by it. I think having a confirmed civ as a discussion resource is worth more than people realize: we all now know exactly where Rico's opinions are coming from, and the way people agree/disagree with his arguments take on a lot more meaning.

Regarding the night poll, I'm going to vote for Bos taurus because, like Boomslang, it starts with B. Disappointed there's no Dispholidus typus option :P

Blendy post, with what seems to be a logical and helpful point, when in fact, he's just stating the obvious and not really saying anything. I guess I'll have to go back and read Bullzeye now, but I had to react to that post.

When I saw what JJJ wrote about zebra and her enjoying his curse, my first reaction was exactly like HB's, thinking that he could easily be on her team. Give credit early on to someone while giving someone who is a very high poster a legit reason to post less, which is something I would appreciate as a baddie having to live up to the expectations people have of my civ persona. That said, I didn't read any day 1 discussion, so I don't know how much JJJ contributed to the discussion. If he was in fact limited in what he could say or convey, I'd expect him to come in full force when he was released from the curse and share his thoughts and ease his frustration. Has he done that? I'm still reading. So, for all of you who have been here on day 1, how does his behaviour fit in with what I said?

DharmaHelper wrote:I'm not sure where I sit on the JJJ vs. Llama debate just yet. I was leaning JJ until his posts on Boom which read honest. And I haven't made heads or tails of the case on llama at all. So in the meantime I'm placing a token vote on Sorsha for her odd comments regarding Golden's culpability in Fuzz's death.

thellama73 wrote:

Golden wrote: I literally cannot conceive of any game scenario where calling people a civ is detrimental to my chances of winning as a civ.

In a game with multiple mafias, their night kills have a chance of taking out each other, making the civs' jobs easier. If instead they are able to target people they know are civs, that possibility goes away, making the civs' jobs harder. You literally cannot conceive of that? I literally don't believe you.

MacDougall wrote:I actually can see where HB is coming from. Plucking Boomslang's name out and making him the counterwagon makes me feel like you've done it quite deliberately because you know that there has been suspicion on him from other players so he's a very good chance to be counterwagoned.

Boomslang and I have been at odds in this game and my feeling is hard to put aside but I can't deny what I am seeing.

And you're going to sleep on a day where you are looking like a good chance to get lynched and you haven't left us with a legacy post either which is totally unlike you. You've picked a candidate to hang your counterwagon on and expect it will work. That doesn't sound like the actions of a civilian JJJ.

HamburgerBoy wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:It's always possible that contextual details are overlooked in an ISO. It's a restricted view of thread content, deliberately. From the Boomslang ISO, it looked to me like he was frequently asking people to measure their read on him against the behavior of Tranq, and I think it's reasonable for me to find that suspicious. If I did miss important context, then could you please display it here instead of just talk about it? I don't remember each of these sectors of the thread clearly enough to follow your train of thought without quotes.

You quoted part of it:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Spoiler: show

Boomslang wrote:

Long Con wrote:*votes Boomslang*

Boomslang was the first vote I cast in the game, as I recall, because he made me suspicious back then:

Spoiler: show

Long Con wrote:

Epignosis wrote:

Boomslang wrote:Tranq's slip of calling Finn McMissile mafia (the role was part of a second civ team) is too easily fact-checkable to be intentional, imo.

It wasn't a slip. It was Tranq being a nub. Hence my opening post.

What I'm seeing here is, on the surface, a possible Boomslang-Tranq baddie teamup. That's just surface though, and I don't really think that's what's going on here.

However, my ideal civ-mindset would hold back and wait to see if anyone jumps on Tranq opportunistically, rather than defuse the situation with some textbook "let's not get too finger-pointy" sanity. Short-term "obvious Civ" statements can be long-term "don't worry about me, I'm cooler than being cool" baddie groundwork.

And recently his sig vote twanged me in the twingiest of ways. So, Day 3 starts with a vote on him, foremost of my suspicions.

Never thought too much about it before, but Boomslang is a pretty kick ass handle.

Do you think Tranq is civ? Do you think his behavior over the past few nights has changed the value of that (very early) post of mine?

It's Day 3.0 and I'm still seeing this -- Boomslang asking people to read him based upon the behavior of someone else (Tranq). I do not like that.

But I think this shows fuller extent of the suspicion against him. I don't understand the purpose of an ISO if you deliberately don't try to find his apparent motive for saying the things he said.

MacDougall wrote:I actually can see where HB is coming from. Plucking Boomslang's name out and making him the counterwagon makes me feel like you've done it quite deliberately because you know that there has been suspicion on him from other players so he's a very good chance to be counterwagoned.

Boomslang and I have been at odds in this game and my feeling is hard to put aside but I can't deny what I am seeing.

And you're going to sleep on a day where you are looking like a good chance to get lynched and you haven't left us with a legacy post either which is totally unlike you. You've picked a candidate to hang your counterwagon on and expect it will work. That doesn't sound like the actions of a civilian JJJ.

MacDougall wrote:I actually can see where HB is coming from. Plucking Boomslang's name out and making him the counterwagon makes me feel like you've done it quite deliberately because you know that there has been suspicion on him from other players so he's a very good chance to be counterwagoned.

Boomslang and I have been at odds in this game and my feeling is hard to put aside but I can't deny what I am seeing.

And you're going to sleep on a day where you are looking like a good chance to get lynched and you haven't left us with a legacy post either which is totally unlike you. You've picked a candidate to hang your counterwagon on and expect it will work. That doesn't sound like the actions of a civilian JJJ.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

MacDougall wrote:I actually can see where HB is coming from. Plucking Boomslang's name out and making him the counterwagon makes me feel like you've done it quite deliberately because you know that there has been suspicion on him from other players so he's a very good chance to be counterwagoned.

Boomslang and I have been at odds in this game and my feeling is hard to put aside but I can't deny what I am seeing.

And you're going to sleep on a day where you are looking like a good chance to get lynched and you haven't left us with a legacy post either which is totally unlike you. You've picked a candidate to hang your counterwagon on and expect it will work. That doesn't sound like the actions of a civilian JJJ.

If I want a counterwagon, why on Earth wouldn't I just go after llama, the very same guy I've been after for the whole game prior? He is tied with me. When I mounted that Boomslang case the thread was even more anti-llama in climate than it is now -- due in part to my own shift. That doesn't make sense.

You're gawd damned right I'm going to sleep. I don't have fucking time to leave you a legacy. I'm so sick of this crap -- it's not going to happen, I've said that eight hundred times. Me getting enough sleep on a work night is more important than staying a live in a bloody Mafia game. I would love to be a part of EOD, but I have to have priorities.

Golden wrote:I just realised - Boomslang currently has the curse Draconus had on day one.

MacDougall wrote:Jimmy how come every time I interact with you to put pressure on you you react like a scolded dog?

MacDougall wrote:That is obviously the question, why wouldn't you just put the foot down on Llama's throat. Why haven't you? Was your previous suspicion of him disingenuous?

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Golden wrote:I just realised - Boomslang currently has the curse Draconus had on day one.

I hadn't noticed this either. Good eye.

I'm willing to bet the question-curser is on a separate mafia team to Zebra's. Unless Boom was cursed by a team mate (here we go again), that'd be a tick in his favor at least for one side.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

MacDougall wrote:Jimmy how come every time I interact with you to put pressure on you you react like a scolded dog?

I'm sorry, I shouldn't lash out like that. Forgive me. It's just frustrating to be held to the "massive legacy post/make posts from bathroom stalls/be a lunatic" standard all the time.

MacDougall wrote:That is obviously the question, why wouldn't you just put the foot down on Llama's throat. Why haven't you? Was your previous suspicion of him disingenuous?

I've talked about that in the thread recently, just have a look.

FZ. wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Golden wrote:I just realised - Boomslang currently has the curse Draconus had on day one.

I hadn't noticed this either. Good eye.

I'm willing to bet the question-curser is on a separate mafia team to Zebra's. Unless Boom was cursed by a team mate (here we go again), that'd be a tick in his favor at least for one side.

Boomslang was being talked about and suspected. He had more to gain than you in terms of using the curse on himself if he's on that team. And again, what is the curse?

Golden wrote:

FZ. wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Golden wrote:I just realised - Boomslang currently has the curse Draconus had on day one.

I hadn't noticed this either. Good eye.

I'm willing to bet the question-curser is on a separate mafia team to Zebra's. Unless Boom was cursed by a team mate (here we go again), that'd be a tick in his favor at least for one side.

Boomslang was being talked about and suspected. He had more to gain than you in terms of using the curse on himself if he's on that team. And again, what is the curse?

Speaking only in yes/no questions.

FZ. wrote:

Golden wrote:

FZ. wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Golden wrote:I just realised - Boomslang currently has the curse Draconus had on day one.

I hadn't noticed this either. Good eye.

I'm willing to bet the question-curser is on a separate mafia team to Zebra's. Unless Boom was cursed by a team mate (here we go again), that'd be a tick in his favor at least for one side.

Boomslang was being talked about and suspected. He had more to gain than you in terms of using the curse on himself if he's on that team. And again, what is the curse?

Speaking only in yes/no questions.

You can still say whatever you want with a curse like that, can't you? So the curse shouldn't stop him from speaking his mind.

Theoretically, one can say, "Don't you think X and Y?" or stuff like that.

Golden wrote:I'd actually be ok seeing Sorsha or LoRab lynched.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:I really have to go. I'm set for 6 hours of sleep if I can fall unconscious right... now.

Nope.

Anyway, I'm going to leave my vote on Boomslang. I've decided I prefer him over llama, and I think he's a more viable candidate right now than LoRab (I'd support her lynch too). I encourage y'all to continue having this productive discourse all the way to the final buzzer of the phase. Make EOD exciting, that's when people crack.

G'night folks. Beware shenanigans.

Golden wrote:But JJ already had suspicion of llama. Why ignore the viable counterwagon that already exists and completely be consistent with JJJ's stated suspicions, instead turning it around in a completely different direction which risks his own lynch more?

I'm not sure I follow that logic from a baddie mindset.

Sorsha wrote:

Golden wrote:I'd actually be ok seeing Sorsha or LoRab lynched.

I agree with 50% of this statement. Voting LoRab again.

FZ. wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:I really have to go. I'm set for 6 hours of sleep if I can fall unconscious right... now.

Nope.

Anyway, I'm going to leave my vote on Boomslang. I've decided I prefer him over llama, and I think he's a more viable candidate right now than LoRab (I'd support her lynch too). I encourage y'all to continue having this productive discourse all the way to the final buzzer of the phase. Make EOD exciting, that's when people crack.

G'night folks. Beware shenanigans.

If Golden feels Boomslang is a civ, maybe we should switch to someone else? If you split your votes, you'll end up being lynched

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

FZ. wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:I really have to go. I'm set for 6 hours of sleep if I can fall unconscious right... now.

Nope.

Anyway, I'm going to leave my vote on Boomslang. I've decided I prefer him over llama, and I think he's a more viable candidate right now than LoRab (I'd support her lynch too). I encourage y'all to continue having this productive discourse all the way to the final buzzer of the phase. Make EOD exciting, that's when people crack.

G'night folks. Beware shenanigans.

If Golden feels Boomslang is a civ, maybe we should switch to someone else? If you split your votes, you'll end up being lynched

LoRab?