The Syndicate

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:<snip>

Metalmarsh89 wrote:

Elohcin wrote:

Quin wrote:

Elohcin wrote:

Quin wrote:

Elohcin wrote:Quin, who should I vote for?

I wouldn't recommend voted outside of those already on the poll. Decent cases have been made for everyone currently on it.

and who would that be?

I won't tell you that. I'd rather you make a decision on your own.

I just wanted to know who even had votes. Ah well..whatever. I'm over this game.

and the linki is INSANE....has been all hour.

AH....like 4ths linki and I finally see votals. really? votals? lord. I vote Elohcin


LINKI LINKI GAHHHHHH

Scum would not make such a ballsy move.

[/spoiler]

Marmot went to a lot of trouble to stand in Elohcin's defense. He put more into that than he put into anything else in his post history, by my measure. He provided a meta perspective of her play which I would call patently false (Elohcin has plenty of mafia games where she does very little). The truly interesting portion though is the one I have highlighted at the end.

I think Marmot spewed her town. Marmot has the advantage of inside knowledge given his team's makeup, and contrary to popular belief -- a scum has reasons to town read a low content player like Elohcin. Bad guys perceive these opportunities as cake-walks to creditsville -- civilians love to lynch people with Elohcin's general profile in this game, and when they get it wrong they turn on one another for attacking the easy target. Marmot high-roaded it instead, and that last post was a mistake of his IMO. She self-voted because she was genuinely sick of trying to deal with this game (and I don't think she'd have been inclined to do that as a baddie; I've been teamed with her twice), and Marmot felt like he had to react to it in some way.

So he reacted with the truth.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Marmot's self-vote lasted exactly 4 minutes, so that was a joke. He is known for doing that.

Elohcin's self-vote stuck through the day and she hasn't posted anything since. I think she is literally done with this game like she said she was.

speedchuck wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Marmot's self-vote lasted exactly 4 minutes, so that was a joke. He is known for doing that.

Elohcin's self-vote stuck through the day and she hasn't posted anything since. I think she is literally done with this game like she said she was.

True.

But the self-vote hadn't lasted all day when he said that. Talking about the Marmot's reaction, point stands. This was a joke based on his own self-vote, it seems, and I won't read as much into it regarding Eloh's alignment.

Strawhenge wrote:Jay, do you have any counterpoints to my GTH reads? I'd be interested in hearing why any positions in that list should change, in your opinion.

Also, are we focusing on what a dead scum said to/about an AWOL player? Because the worst-case is that Eloh is an inactive (read: unable to influence current discussion) scum. I'd rather try to find the scum who are actively influencing the thread.

speedchuck wrote:http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 80#p337151
http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 80#p337173

Hm. I must have misremembered. I was sure that someone said something directly to that effect. Apparently not.

Point mostly withdrawn. I need to stop relying on my memory, but I'm on a slow computer and digging through posts is a pain.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote:Is fake claiming never a thing here?

I see Nut, JJJ and Silver with verifiable claims.

Quin and Scotty could be vanilla given their claims and the actual results we've seen.

What's the reasoning behind automatically believing such role claims as several people (some confirmed town) have done?

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:I don't believe Long Con ever addressed Strawhenge's review. I called for this once already.

Hey LC:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Interaction of Metalmarsh89 and DFaraday / juliets

speedchuck wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Interaction of Metalmarsh89 and DFaraday / juliets

BUT WHAT DAY DID YOU DO THE ANALYSIS?

Golden wrote:Jay, do strawhenge interactions please, if you have time.

Strawhenge wrote:ISOing Long Con right now. He's the most active player who has caught my eye a couple times. Some items have already been addressed, and I know that; I'm just compiling them.

Also, I'm on my phone, so I'm sorry for lack of quotes; that's more work for you. I'll list things in chronological order though.

1. He claimed to have the map. He followed this claim with a suggestion that we go to Candy Mountain, so the claim might be a joke. Or it's an I Am Spartacus move.
That was a joke, but what is an I Am Spartacus move?

2. INH points out that the three map-claimers (at the time) all wanted different directions, and said that's a problem. LC said, 'You're inventing a problem where there isn't one,' then voted for INH. Huh. Overreactive.
I talked about this when it was current... I thought this would be like the only other game I played like this, where votes go flying as soon as the game starts. That's how it was on Jesus Toast Mafia. That vote was to indicate that I was slightly suspicious of his motives.

3. Elaborates on INH vote by saying Spartacus-ing map-claims is a town thing to do, because it covers for the real map-holder. Odd that he doesn't take into account the benefit a scum would have in map-claiming.
Spartacus-ing is...faking? I think it's more townish to cover for the fake claimer. Now we have seen that MM fake-claimed it, but never tried to influence anyone to follow his lead, despite being bad, so I take that as confirmation that I was right. If we had evidence of a baddie trying to influence map decisions, then I would admit I was wrong.

4. After some folks explain why INH's worries were valid, he says that the Dys slip is much more 'juicy'. Possible attempt to redirect conversation. In the same post he says the INH vote was just a pressure-vote. I'm struggling to see why a pressure-vote was needed there.
Again, as I talked about much earlier, I used the term "pressure-vote" to explain the way I was voting him - to indicate a mild suspicion.

5. When Jay pointed this out, LC pointed to game meta and basically said, 'I thought pressure-votes were what we were doing, oh well.'
Yes.

6. All in one post: snarks at INH, throws shade at Jay for laying off of Golden, asks Dys if we should move on from being suspicious of Dys. That Dys item hurts my brain. LC must be pretty confident that Dys is town if he's asking DYS if we should stop grilling them about it.
Not sure about the first two, but the Dys question was to determine if Dys planned to "do" anything more with his fakeslip. It wasn't about confidence in his town-ness, it was about getting him to reveal if he was done with it, or if he was going anywhere with it. Not going anywhere with it was suspicious in my eyes. Best way to find out is to ask.

7. And then votes Dys.
Yes, because he answered in the way that was suspicious to me.

8. And then tells Dys that they're not actually scum hunting. When Dys says that they are, LC says, 'Well, yeah, your other posts do.'
Obviously referencing the lack of scumhinting in his "fakeslip plan".

8.5. CALLS ME STONEHENGE, EXCUSE YOU
Inexcusable, voteworthy in itself.

9. Asks the map-holders if we should trust them. Map-holder or not, a map-claimer is going to say yes to that question.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:One thing about Elohcin that would really be nice:

Please drop in for at least one more post so you can either corroborate or not Golden's N1 claim. Did you target Fredwood?

Long Con wrote:

Jackofhearts2005 wrote:Is fake claiming never a thing here?

I see Nut, JJJ and Silver with verifiable claims.

Quin and Scotty could be vanilla given their claims and the actual results we've seen.

What's the reasoning behind automatically believing such role claims as several people (some confirmed town) have done?

I don't understand.

How are Nut, JJJ, and Silver's claims connected to each other?

Why are Quin and Scotty vanilla together?

You have to explain that or it makes no sense.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote:

Long Con wrote:

Jackofhearts2005 wrote:Is fake claiming never a thing here?

I see Nut, JJJ and Silver with verifiable claims.

Quin and Scotty could be vanilla given their claims and the actual results we've seen.

What's the reasoning behind automatically believing such role claims as several people (some confirmed town) have done?

I don't understand.

How are Nut, JJJ, and Silver's claims connected to each other?

Why are Quin and Scotty vanilla together?

You have to explain that or it makes no sense.

They aren't?

Nut claimed daycop then had his cop results appear in the write up. Silver's kill happened and we can see Wigly died. JJJ confirmed my claimed night target. These are proven powers and I expect people to read these people better because of them. (These players happen to be trusted for other reasons.)

Quin claimed odd night doctor but there's nothing proving or even implying he is. Scotty claimed the ability to prove himself at night somehow but for two nights, it hasn't happened. There's no proof he actually has this ability. Both Quin and Scotty could make these claims no matter what their roles actually are, even if they are vanilla. (I don't actually think they are vanilla.)

Now, this doesn't make Scotty or Quin scum. Most of us don't have night action proof at this point. The key bit is that since there's no evidence of these claimed powers, there should be no credit gained by claiming these powers. Some players (specifically, Golden) have weighed in on these claims positively. This I cannot understand.

Does that make sense?

Long Con wrote:

Jackofhearts2005 wrote:

Long Con wrote:

Jackofhearts2005 wrote:Is fake claiming never a thing here?

I see Nut, JJJ and Silver with verifiable claims.

Quin and Scotty could be vanilla given their claims and the actual results we've seen.

What's the reasoning behind automatically believing such role claims as several people (some confirmed town) have done?

I don't understand.

How are Nut, JJJ, and Silver's claims connected to each other?

Why are Quin and Scotty vanilla together?

You have to explain that or it makes no sense.

They aren't?

Nut claimed daycop then had his cop results appear in the write up. Silver's kill happened and we can see Wigly died. JJJ confirmed my claimed night target. These are proven powers and I expect people to read these people better because of them. (These players happen to be trusted for other reasons.)

Quin claimed odd night doctor but there's nothing proving or even implying he is. Scotty claimed the ability to prove himself at night somehow but for two nights, it hasn't happened. There's no proof he actually has this ability. Both Quin and Scotty could make these claims no matter what their roles actually are, even if they are vanilla. (I don't actually think they are vanilla.)

Now, this doesn't make Scotty or Quin scum. Most of us don't have night action proof at this point. The key bit is that since there's no evidence of these claimed powers, there should be no credit gained by claiming these powers. Some players (specifically, Golden) have weighed in on these claims positively. This I cannot understand.

Does that make sense?

No, how do they connect to each other?

Jackofhearts2005 wrote:

Long Con wrote:And juliets, your coloration in that list wasn't because I have specific suspicions of you to point out. Most of the list is in relation to the other folks on the list, especially the middle area. Gut feels. You could have easily been on the lighter yellow side. You're just not green because, well, why should I read you as green/Civ? Convince me that's where you should be, and maybe you can be movin' on up.

JJJ
Quin
Golden
Dyslexicon
Sloonei
Elohcin
juliets
Soneji
insertnamehere
Fredwood
Scotty
Strawhenge
Speedchuck
Jackofhearts

Again, Speedchuck and Jack are those that I specifically think are bad. JJJ, Golden, Quin, Dizzy, I specifically think are good. The rest I have generally ordered in what I recall feeling about them. I know I'm not playing this game at the level that some of you are, so sorry, please don't expect me to have grand cases. And don't ask me to prove my suspicion by being able to name your teammates - that's a bullshit request, and really just makes me suspect you more. Like, don't defend yourself - send out a verbal trap instead to make your accuser look like his accusations are invalid. Nah buddy.

A trap?

I'm asking you to explain a contradiction. How is pointing out a contradiction and asking you to explain it scummy?

You didn't say either me or Speed is bad. You said that you think we're both bad. As in together. Makes no sense. Why don't you want to talk about that?

Long Con wrote: Guys, I'm just proving how ridiculous this post is:

Jackofhearts2005 wrote:

Long Con wrote:And juliets, your coloration in that list wasn't because I have specific suspicions of you to point out. Most of the list is in relation to the other folks on the list, especially the middle area. Gut feels. You could have easily been on the lighter yellow side. You're just not green because, well, why should I read you as green/Civ? Convince me that's where you should be, and maybe you can be movin' on up.

JJJ
Quin
Golden
Dyslexicon
Sloonei
Elohcin
juliets
Soneji
insertnamehere
Fredwood
Scotty
Strawhenge
Speedchuck
Jackofhearts

Again, Speedchuck and Jack are those that I specifically think are bad. JJJ, Golden, Quin, Dizzy, I specifically think are good. The rest I have generally ordered in what I recall feeling about them. I know I'm not playing this game at the level that some of you are, so sorry, please don't expect me to have grand cases. And don't ask me to prove my suspicion by being able to name your teammates - that's a bullshit request, and really just makes me suspect you more. Like, don't defend yourself - send out a verbal trap instead to make your accuser look like his accusations are invalid. Nah buddy.

A trap?

I'm asking you to explain a contradiction. How is pointing out a contradiction and asking you to explain it scummy?

You didn't say either me or Speed is bad. You said that you think we're both bad. As in together. Makes no sense. Why don't you want to talk about that?

Jack wants to twist the narrative so I can't suspect two different people without demonstrating how they're bad together. Just showing how that's illogical.

Long Con wrote:No I didn't. I named the two of you as my top suspicions. YOU are the one who made it "bad together".

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:I'm game to push for the distant item, based on the assumption that working harder to get there will reap a reward (not guaranteed). It'd also be easier to ensure that item falls into the right hands. The added risk sounds fun.

I don't object to the alternative though if that's the consensus preference.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Long Con wrote:No I didn't. I named the two of you as my top suspicions. YOU are the one who made it "bad together".

Do you think there's any room for JOH to fairly interpret your rainbow/comments the way he did?

Golden wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:I'm game to push for the distant item, based on the assumption that working harder to get there will reap a reward (not guaranteed). It'd also be easier to ensure that item falls into the right hands. The added risk sounds fun.

I don't object to the alternative though if that's the consensus preference.

I'm wrong. I just double checked. There's a portal that would allow us to get all five on the trot either way.

I'm pretty sure this works, unless I've missed something.

Just, whatever people do, follow me where you can (but it does take me time to check the correct direction each day) but definitely DON'T GO IN THE EXACT OPPOSITE COMPASS DIRECTION TO WHAT WE WENT THE DAY BEFORE.

Long Con wrote:Um... I guess we're not playing "pretend I have the map" anymore, eh JJJ?

Long Con wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Long Con wrote:No I didn't. I named the two of you as my top suspicions. YOU are the one who made it "bad together".

Do you think there's any room for JOH to fairly interpret your rainbow/comments the way he did?

Not really. It's a tactic to deflect suspicion. I didn't say anything about them being bad together. His retaliation presumes that any suspicion of more than one player must be justified by proving how the two suspicions are bad together. Has he forced this interpretation on anyone else who has had two suspects at the same time? I don't think so. At least if he was consistent about it, that would be something. As it is, no, I don't see any room for it to be called "fair".

speedchuck wrote:

Long Con wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Long Con wrote:No I didn't. I named the two of you as my top suspicions. YOU are the one who made it "bad together".

Do you think there's any room for JOH to fairly interpret your rainbow/comments the way he did?

Not really. It's a tactic to deflect suspicion. I didn't say anything about them being bad together. His retaliation presumes that any suspicion of more than one player must be justified by proving how the two suspicions are bad together. Has he forced this interpretation on anyone else who has had two suspects at the same time? I don't think so. At least if he was consistent about it, that would be something. As it is, no, I don't see any room for it to be called "fair".

The way you worded it, in my opinion, could have been misconstrued.

However, if a player wants to make a statement as strong as "Not only do I consider these people scummy, I think they're aligned as scum" would not leave it up to inference. The question should have been (if Jack was iffy on it):

Clarify: Do you think I and speed are scum together, or do you just have strong scumreads on us both?
Rather than all of this confusement.

Long Con wrote:

Jackofhearts2005 wrote:

Long Con wrote:

Jackofhearts2005 wrote:

Long Con wrote:I don't have a lot of time right now, I just wanted to catch up on the night's posts. I'll just give a rainbow for now, then do farm chores, shower, and go to work... arriving home in perhaps 5 hours from now, give or take half an hour. Then some family time and dinner, but that still leaves time within that 13 hours before lynch time.

Nutella
Golden
Dyslexicon
Quin
Sloonei
Elohcin
juliets
Soneji
insertnamehere
Fredwood
Scotty
Strawhenge
Jackofhearts
JJJ
Speedchuck

Hey LC.

Who am I scumbuddies with? Speed or Scotty?

Speed, I suspect him much more.

You serious? The guy I've been after all game that is now voting for me?

Oh I get it, it's a trap...

Dyslexicon wrote:Is anyone seeing Quin/Jack as possible teammates, or am I just crazy?