Mountain Mafia [END]

[colonialbob]

To what degree do you believe in your case?
why is mesk a better lynch than elohcin and dom?

I believe in my Elohcin case enough to want to lynch her.

Mesk is not a better lynch than Elohcin. Mesk is a better lynch than Dom because the low-poster motivation suits both of them, while only the former's content features tangible reasons for suspicion.

Bullshit. The latter has no content to compare.

That's the point. -1 is less than 0.

can you see no town conviction behind mesk's posts?

Why if you hated voting for her and seemed to see some towniness in Mesk, did you vote for her? I mean, I get the general feel of why but why her over Dom in your case? Please and thank you.

my vote for mesk was purely a means to prevent vote shenanigans. I don't like ties and I didn't want any unforeseen last second changes to the lynch result. All the votes were piling on Mesk so I padded her lead. It was not a lynch that I wanted, but at this stage in the game I wanted a clean lynch more than anything. It probably wasn't the best strategic move.

I'm still behind on the thread and not getting caught up at the moment. I'll have a lot of free time later this evening and hopefully then I can start making confident reads.

No, I feel you. I think having a clear lynch is important after so many non deaths, especially with vote manipulation and things floating around. When I went to bed the votes were 6-3 Dom to Jack, and I considered switching but felt 6-3 was good enough and wanted to allow for more switching just in case. Bit of an understatement apparently.

[speedchuck]

For the record, far too early for me (got to page 11) to get any sort of good reads yet, BUT when you talk about lynching a player spot immediately after they've been replaced? That seems fairly scummy to me. Especially with the meta-logic of "well, they were replaced so they must be mafia" which is, frankly, crap logic.

I'd also like to point out I replaced in before you, and I'm town. There were three other inactives, Mesk, you, and insertnamehere (who became inactive after replacing another inactive). Is it likely all 4 inactives were town and not even 1 was mafia? Possible, but I wouldn't call it likely.

I'm town, Mesk flipped town, so the logic that you COULD be scum isn't fool proof, but it isn't coming straight out of my ass either, I reckon. Read on, show us what you got. I've been in your shoes and it wasn't a fun process--especially when the person I replaced was a lynch-candidate the day before I replaced.

So if malakim is town, you're probably scum right?

[Quin]

I have a grievance with the amount of times Kyle has used his Pirate Mafia performance as a way to fend off suspicion. He played games somewhere else that he's also talked about but I didn't quote them. No, I don't care that most of these are direct accusations about his Pirates performance. I think he's using meta as a shield.

You should care that those were in direct response to meta accusations. Why wouldn't you care about that?

You're rejecting perceptions before easing concerns. You're saying "I wasn't an active force in Pirates" when you should be saying "I'm actually not someone who takes the front line" if what they're saying is false about your playstyle.

You are reaching so hard I think you'll accidentally touch the sun and get burned. Be careful.

[malakim2099]

I have no reason to suspect you other than basic statistics and probability at this point in time. Also that fucking SF game

I won't be scrambling to lynch you any time soon. Please, get comfortable and show us your pearly white peak.

Well, normally I don't do this on my first night...

Spoiler: show

[Quin]

Like in here, Quin started pushing the Mesk lynch before everyone. He pushed and he pushed until people took the bait. If one of Jay or New Dom is bad, Quin looks terrible. On the other hand, it is a risky play for a baddie. He more or less took the lead on it.

Or did he? He was the fourth one to vote in the poll (can we trust the pool order, btw? This site changes too much). That means he kept suggesting it until some people voted for her, then jumped on the wagon himself.

Still catching up, but if the bolded is true, that feels very scummy.

hi the bolded isn't true please love me

[Quin]

I wasn't planning on thoroughly looking at J³ until tomorrow, is there a significant chance that he's mafia

would you have voted for him if someone had said yes?

[dunya]

For the record, far too early for me (got to page 11) to get any sort of good reads yet, BUT when you talk about lynching a player spot immediately after they've been replaced? That seems fairly scummy to me. Especially with the meta-logic of "well, they were replaced so they must be mafia" which is, frankly, crap logic.

I'd also like to point out I replaced in before you, and I'm town. There were three other inactives, Mesk, you, and insertnamehere (who became inactive after replacing another inactive). Is it likely all 4 inactives were town and not even 1 was mafia? Possible, but I wouldn't call it likely.

I'm town, Mesk flipped town, so the logic that you COULD be scum isn't fool proof, but it isn't coming straight out of my ass either, I reckon. Read on, show us what you got. I've been in your shoes and it wasn't a fun process--especially when the person I replaced was a lynch-candidate the day before I replaced.

So if malakim is town, you're probably scum right?

nah, then we'll look into INH

[Kylemii]

I wasn't planning on thoroughly looking at J³ until tomorrow, is there a significant chance that he's mafia

would you have voted for him if someone had said yes?

If someone had shown me a convincing enough case in those 11 remaining minutes I might have.

[malakim2099]

For the record, far too early for me (got to page 11) to get any sort of good reads yet, BUT when you talk about lynching a player spot immediately after they've been replaced? That seems fairly scummy to me. Especially with the meta-logic of "well, they were replaced so they must be mafia" which is, frankly, crap logic.

I'd also like to point out I replaced in before you, and I'm town. There were three other inactives, Mesk, you, and insertnamehere (who became inactive after replacing another inactive). Is it likely all 4 inactives were town and not even 1 was mafia? Possible, but I wouldn't call it likely.

I'm town, Mesk flipped town, so the logic that you COULD be scum isn't fool proof, but it isn't coming straight out of my ass either, I reckon. Read on, show us what you got. I've been in your shoes and it wasn't a fun process--especially when the person I replaced was a lynch-candidate the day before I replaced.

So if malakim is town, you're probably scum right?

That makes sense to me. After all, I'm town, Mesk was revealed as town... simple numbers, it has to be dunya.

[Quin]

[mention]Dragon D. Luffy[/mention] , please show posts where I take the lead on the Lasagne lynch.
[mention]speedchuck[/mention] , please show posts where I was hands-off the Lasagne lynch.

[dunya]

why do some people spell it lasagna and some people lasagne?

[Kylemii]

I think it's a geographic thing

[Quin]

why do some people spell it lasagna and some people lasagne?

They ones who spell it as lasagna are all heathens.

[speedchuck]

Dragon D. Luffy , please show posts where I take the lead on the Lasagne lynch.
speedchuck , please show posts where I was hands-off the Lasagne lynch.

There aren't any. Once the train started, you weren't here. You never really argued strongly for the lynch in the first place. When JJJ (I think it was) voted for Mesk and you mistook it for just her name, you were curious. When you found out it was a vote, you were like "never mind"
I'd think JJJ's opinion matters even more if it was a vote, right?

So yeah. Lack of posts. Nothing super strongly condemning there, looking back. Do you think you're a fall guy for the lynch? If so, who is pushing that on you hardest?

[Quin]

Dragon D. Luffy , please show posts where I take the lead on the Lasagne lynch.
speedchuck , please show posts where I was hands-off the Lasagne lynch.

There aren't any. Once the train started, you weren't here. You never really argued strongly for the lynch in the first place. When JJJ (I think it was) voted for Mesk and you mistook it for just her name, you were curious. When you found out it was a vote, you were like "never mind"
I'd think JJJ's opinion matters even more if it was a vote, right?

So yeah. Lack of posts. Nothing super strongly condemning there, looking back. Do you think you're a fall guy for the lynch? If so, who is pushing that on you hardest?

I realised the flaw in asking for you posts showing my lack of posts. Still.

I wanted an Eloh lynch yesterday. When I saw that we were going to go down the low-poster route I figured I'd suggest someone I thought actually looked bad. 3J gave thoughts too, yeah? He'd done an ISO already.

I think it could turn out that way. I'm leaning closer to your perspective that I was more hands-off yesterday, so DDL saying that I "pushed and pushed" until I got my way gets on my nerves. I'd say him.

[colonialbob]

why do some people spell it lasagna and some people lasagne?

An e looks like an upside down a, Australia is upside down, you can figure out the rest

[colonialbob]

A moment of silence.

Also I legitimately laughed out loud this morning at this. Almost forgot.

Ok, back to game-related posts.

[colonialbob]

Seeing some very potential JJJ/quin links page 65. Also, did tripJ ever explain his late swap from Eloh back to Mesk?

[Epignosis]

If you lynch somebody, it damn well better be because you think that person is bad, not because you need the more "informative" lynch. If you aren't lynching people you think are bad, I'm sure there's a simple explanation for that.

I love this post.

You had a vote on Dom for a bit. Did you think he was bad while you did have a vote on Dom?

Dom was a top suspect of mine until it became apparent that one individual could submit actions for an entire team. That doesn't mean I was going to take my foot off the gas. He remains a suspect by default.

I mean, my read on Epi was town before. I just hate inconsistencies and anything hypocritical that stands out I feel should be questioned.

"A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little mountains."

[dunya]

Dom was a top suspect of mine until it became apparent that one individual could submit actions for an entire team.

you mean "any" individual can submit actions for an entire team, right?

[dunya]

when is sig due to be back from inactivity land?

[Kylemii]

hobgoblin, explain

[nutella]

Technically in Italian "lasagne" is plural and "lasagna" is singular. Since a typical dish of lasagne is made up of multiple pieces of lasagna (the flat pieces of pasta themselves) it makes sense to use the plural. But "lasagna" is a generally acceptable use in English.

Malakim, sorry, but I strongly believe Dom is bad because of how the lynch went down yesterday. Nothing to do with your replacement.

[Epignosis]

Dom was a top suspect of mine until it became apparent that one individual could submit actions for an entire team.

you mean "any" individual can submit actions for an entire team, right?

Correct.

[Epignosis]

hobgoblin, explain

Are you asking me to explain something? If so, what do you want explained?

[Kylemii]

what is the hobgoblin?

[Epignosis]

what is the hobgoblin?

You need more...(heh, watch this)...immersion (get it? get it?) in Transcendentalist literature.

[Jackofhearts2005]

Jack, your opinion of speedchuck would be one of the most relevant now. You were scumbuddies in Pirates. How is his general presence in this game pinging you?

Pretty similar.

Two things I noticed in Pirates.

1) Speed was comfortable being suspected and coasting as long as he wasn't top lynch guy. He'd not throw out enough reads to look fake supatown but rather supply them as if they were a daily vitamin. Give once a day to keep the townies away. Doing that here, too.

2) Didn't mind pushing junk lynches like the no lynch and Wilgy. That hasn't happened here.

I gut read him bad and then waver when he coasts or says nice things about me.

I think he's bad but maybe...3rd or 4th top suspect.

[Jackofhearts2005]

To what degree do you believe in your case?
why is mesk a better lynch than elohcin and dom?

I believe in my Elohcin case enough to want to lynch her.

Mesk is not a better lynch than Elohcin. Mesk is a better lynch than Dom because the low-poster motivation suits both of them, while only the former's content features tangible reasons for suspicion.

Bullshit. The latter has no content to compare.

That's the point. -1 is less than 0.

can you see no town conviction behind mesk's posts?

Why if you hated voting for her and seemed to see some towniness in Mesk, did you vote for her? I mean, I get the general feel of why but why her over Dom in your case? Please and thank you.

my vote for mesk was purely a means to prevent vote shenanigans. I don't like ties and I didn't want any unforeseen last second changes to the lynch result. All the votes were piling on Mesk so I padded her lead. It was not a lynch that I wanted, but at this stage in the game I wanted a clean lynch more than anything. It probably wasn't the best strategic move.

I'm still behind on the thread and not getting caught up at the moment. I'll have a lot of free time later this evening and hopefully then I can start making confident reads.

I don't get this mentality

[Jackofhearts2005]

For the record, far too early for me (got to page 11) to get any sort of good reads yet, BUT when you talk about lynching a player spot immediately after they've been replaced? That seems fairly scummy to me. Especially with the meta-logic of "well, they were replaced so they must be mafia" which is, frankly, crap logic.

Nutella, aside from the fact that Dom was completely inert, why am I bad?
Dunya, likewise.

If I'm locked into dying via lynch in the next couple days (which definitely helps the mafia narrow down who they don't have to bother NKing)... I'd like to know why at least. Consider it a professional courtesy.

(Normally I'd just defend myself, but I'm curious what their reasoning is in lynching someone who is going to actually be active in the game going forward?)

I have no reason to suspect you other than basic statistics and probability at this point in time. Also that fucking SF game

I won't be scrambling to lynch you any time soon. Please, get comfortable and show us your pearly white peak.

SF! That's the other time I knew you were good.

[Epignosis]

Don't let Eloh fool you. She just solved a game of Clue on her first turn.

[Jackofhearts2005]

what is the hobgoblin?

It's like a regular goblin only bigger and orange.

[Kylemii]

what is the hobgoblin?

You need more...(heh, watch this)...immersion (get it? get it?) in Transcendentalist literature.

Oh! So it was a joke/reference to Ralph Waldo Emerson? Not necessarily a comment on your beliefs about logical inconsistencies in relationships to mafios.

(It was a good joke, it made me laugh AND it made me learn.)

[speedchuck]

Jack, your opinion of speedchuck would be one of the most relevant now. You were scumbuddies in Pirates. How is his general presence in this game pinging you?

I gut read him bad and then waver when he coasts or says nice things about me.

[Epignosis]

what is the hobgoblin?

You need more...(heh, watch this)...immersion (get it? get it?) in Transcendentalist literature.

Oh! So it was a joke/reference to Ralph Waldo Emerson? Not necessarily a comment on your beliefs about logical inconsistencies in relationships to mafios.

(It was a good joke, it made me laugh AND it made me learn.)

Glad to hear it.

I do agree with Emerson, however, as his comment applies to our present situation.

[Kylemii]

what is the hobgoblin?

You need more...(heh, watch this)...immersion (get it? get it?) in Transcendentalist literature.

Oh! So it was a joke/reference to Ralph Waldo Emerson? Not necessarily a comment on your beliefs about logical inconsistencies in relationships to mafios.

(It was a good joke, it made me laugh AND it made me learn.)

Glad to hear it.

I do agree with Emerson, however, as his comment applies to our present situation.

Can you explain how? (for those of us who barely skimmed the essays description on wikipedia)

[Epignosis]

what is the hobgoblin?

You need more...(heh, watch this)...immersion (get it? get it?) in Transcendentalist literature.

Oh! So it was a joke/reference to Ralph Waldo Emerson? Not necessarily a comment on your beliefs about logical inconsistencies in relationships to mafios.

(It was a good joke, it made me laugh AND it made me learn.)

Glad to hear it.

I do agree with Emerson, however, as his comment applies to our present situation.

Can you explain how? (for those of us who barely skimmed the essays description on wikipedia)

The criticism raised against me is that I have been inconsistent.

The truth is, in Mafia, I don't care about being (or even looking) consistent.

I am not interested in holding onto a view I had Day 1 when I change my mind Day 2 or 3. Outsiders will accuse me of being inconsistent. To that I say, "So what?"

Emerson believed that purposeless consistency was a demon. If you hold fast to something without challenging why you hold fast to it, then you are probably doing yourself a disservice.

It is the mafia that try to look consistent. Civilians have no reason to be such.

Which, of course, raises some very fun issues with respect to game theory.

[Kylemii]

huh interesting.

[Sloonei]

huh interesting.

gimme two town reads and two scum reads. please and thanks

[Kylemii]

huh interesting.

gimme two town reads and two scum reads. please and thanks

Spacedaisy, Nutella
Jay, epignosis

but also, don't ever tell me what to do.

[Kylemii]

huh interesting.

gimme two town reads and two scum reads. please and thanks

You do it too.

[Epignosis]

but also, don't ever tell me what to do.

Hypocrisy.

[Sloonei]

huh interesting.

gimme two town reads and two scum reads. please and thanks

Spacedaisy, Nutella
Jay, epignosis

but also, don't ever tell me what to do.

You've been talking with Epi for a while and I've been loosely following along. what is the crux of your suspicion of him?

[Sloonei]

huh interesting.

gimme two town reads and two scum reads. please and thanks

You do it too.

Town: Epignosis, spacedaisy
scum: Jay, you

[Kylemii]

huh interesting.

gimme two town reads and two scum reads. please and thanks

Spacedaisy, Nutella
Jay, epignosis

but also, don't ever tell me what to do.

You've been talking with Epi for a while and I've been loosely following along. what is the crux of your suspicion of him?

I mostly named him cus he was fresh in my mind and your wording implied you wanted answers quickly. Our discussion has nothing to do with him being a suspect, I'm actually just interested in the philosophy, and I don't even think of him as a big suspect.

He's been neutral but leaning slightly towards mafia since he came after me for voting Mesk when he also was going to vote for Dom. I understand his Ralph Waldo Emerson anecdote but I don't think Ralphie was talking about opinions you state within the space of 24 hours.

[nutella]

Good philosophy. "Sometimes a hypocrite is nothing more than a man in the process of changing."

[Elohcin]

I wish you'd have lynched me, even! I wouldn't have even been mad. That would have been more useful than a Mesk flip.

eeeeggghhhhhwwwwwgh

If you're defending this, I hate you too.

Oh you voted for Dom.

Please tell me, how you thought a Dom flip would assist us in scumhunting more than any other player.

If you're telling me after 2600 posts itt you didn't have any better leads than Dom, then you're scum.

Screw you mate. I already put my thoughts down on the infolynch stuff earlier. Look for it. I'm not going to be helpful while you're being all self-righteous and crap. Reminds me of stuff I would do as mafia, too. Coming in after a lynch and being all strong-willed, condemning, and self-righteous. you aren't doing yourself any favors with this post train of snit.

As for the "eeeeggghhhhhwwwwwgh" post, I was reacting to your "I wish I had died instead." Bull crap for a few reasons.
1. You, if town, are more useful than mesk right now.
2. You, if town, know your alignment is town and that there was a chance mesk was scum.
3. I've seen townies prop the perspective that "townies don't need much self-preservation." That's stupid. I will call it stupid in every game I see it, and I will be wary of any posts that say, esp. after the fact, "Man, you should have just killed me instead. Because I'm totally town and don't care if I die. riiight? It would have been better because info." Heck, mesk could have said the same thing if we switched to you. "Oh, you shoud have lynched me. I'm town so I don't care if I live, and I wouldn't have been as big a loss. Because I'm totes town. Riiiggghhhttt???"

So yeah, this post is crap and managed to, along with all the posturing you're doing right now, squash my townread on you.
You wanna act all self-righteous and condemning? Here, have some conflict.
(And for the record, if I was here at EOD, I wouldn't have been on Mesk. Probably J3.)

You look very town in this post.

I agree and its throwing me for a loop because he is convincing. I don't know who to be suspicious of.

[Kylemii]

Town: Epignosis, spacedaisy
scum: Jay, you

I'd like to hear an explanation on 3 of those.

[Epignosis]

huh interesting.

gimme two town reads and two scum reads. please and thanks

Spacedaisy, Nutella
Jay, epignosis

but also, don't ever tell me what to do.

You've been talking with Epi for a while and I've been loosely following along. what is the crux of your suspicion of him?

I mostly named him cus he was fresh in my mind and your wording implied you wanted answers quickly. Our discussion has nothing to do with him being a suspect, I'm actually just interested in the philosophy, and I don't even think of him as a big suspect.

He's been neutral but leaning slightly towards mafia since he came after me for voting Mesk when he also was going to vote for Dom. I understand his Ralph Waldo Emerson anecdote but I don't think Ralphie was talking about opinions you state within the space of 24 hours.

I didn't excuse my vote for Dom as "for information."

[Sloonei]

huh interesting.

gimme two town reads and two scum reads. please and thanks

Spacedaisy, Nutella
Jay, epignosis

but also, don't ever tell me what to do.

You've been talking with Epi for a while and I've been loosely following along. what is the crux of your suspicion of him?

I mostly named him cus he was fresh in my mind and your wording implied you wanted answers quickly. Our discussion has nothing to do with him being a suspect, I'm actually just interested in the philosophy, and I don't even think of him as a big suspect.

He's been neutral but leaning slightly towards mafia since he came after me for voting Mesk when he also was going to vote for Dom. I understand his Ralph Waldo Emerson anecdote but I don't think Ralphie was talking about opinions you state within the space of 24 hours.

Do you think your vote for mesk is directly equivalent to Epi's vote for Dom much earlier in the day?