The Syndicate

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Fri Jul 10, 2020 3:57 am is this a real question

Yes.

Do you have any general theory of the game, or are you just spouting random takes to maintain some image of involvement?

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Fri Jul 10, 2020 3:57 am

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Fri Jul 10, 2020 3:57 am is this a real question

Yes.

Do you have any general theory of the game, or are you just spouting random takes to maintain some image of involvement?

no I don't but I'm not through the early day 2 stuff maybe I'll emerge with one also no I'm not

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Fri Jul 10, 2020 3:58 am

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Fri Jul 10, 2020 3:57 am

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Fri Jul 10, 2020 3:57 am is this a real question

Yes.

Do you have any general theory of the game, or are you just spouting random takes to maintain some image of involvement?

no I don't but I'm not through the early day 2 stuff maybe I'll emerge with one also no I'm not

Okay. I'll let you catch up.

To be more clear: I have no idea what you actually think of anyone. That's not to say you haven't given reads -- but to my immediate recollection, those reads have all been in this tiny format: see a post and make a comment. Those comments have been up and down for numerous people, so whatever actual reads you have are lost in that. If you have them at all.

i mean regardless if wolf epi would have shot nanook we do know for a fact that 1) nanook was confident that epi was town based on some read he chose not to share with us at this point in time and 2) nanook is town and his read was presumably in good faith

if you trust that nanook doesn't just randomly let himself get pocketed by meaingless stuff which I think I do then we have to assume that the read on epi has merit and we should give credence to that. knowing a read was made in 100% good faith is a powerful tool to use

Alison wrote: ↑Fri Jul 10, 2020 4:02 am i mean regardless if wolf epi would have shot nanook we do know for a fact that 1) nanook was confident that epi was town based on some read he chose not to share with us at this point in time and 2) nanook is town and his read was presumably in good faith

if you trust that nanook doesn't just randomly let himself get pocketed by meaingless stuff which I think I do then we have to assume that the read on epi has merit and we should give credence to that. knowing a read was made in 100% good faith is a powerful tool to use

another way of putting this that I think might make sense to some of you is that nanook is now a permanent and confirmed member of the towncore and so if he chose to take epi out of his kill pool we should take that seriously

I don't disagree.

Hally wrote: ↑Fri Jul 10, 2020 12:45 am i can mechanically confirm wisp’s claim is true

he is town

what the hecka

my debate tournament is over unfortunately early, my teammate got sick so we had to drop out after 2 rounds

on the plus side that means I can check the thread slightly more

[mention]Pawn Lelouch[/mention], even if the game state strongly implicates you, I want it known that I appreciate your willingness to take on this big old thread and catch up with things.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Fri Jul 10, 2020 1:49 am Little Lou, Ugly JACK, Prophet John, Belle and Sebastian

What prompted this? I haven't listened to the vocaroo

Long Con wrote: ↑Fri Jul 10, 2020 9:01 am

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Fri Jul 10, 2020 1:49 am Little Lou, Ugly JACK, Prophet John, Belle and Sebastian

What prompted this? I haven't listened to the vocaroo

Just felt like being thematic. It’s irrelevant.

Wisp wrote: ↑Fri Jul 10, 2020 1:12 am I voted Jack on because it was the less inappropriate one!
/r/Wholesome

Why do i find the colored part disappointing?

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Fri Jul 10, 2020 1:13 am lol I was making a distasteful joke

I voted for Off to be cheeky because I didn’t think that poll was anything but snark.

Alison wrote: ↑Fri Jul 10, 2020 1:22 am

Hally wrote: ↑Fri Jul 10, 2020 1:19 am

Alison wrote: ↑Fri Jul 10, 2020 1:17 am LC, Hally, Wisp lock town

i see some people townreading SD. why can't the claim be fake?

why would she ever fake that as wolf?

i thought she was town before that anyway

fair enough

i agree with both of these things on re-read of the context she claimed in

LC, Hally, Wisp, SD lock town

no reason to scumread JJJ now that I'm satisfied it wasn't a bus

will still look at the interactions to see if I can piece something out of it after my tournament

Idk if I’d lock them in, but I feel better about them as possible town atm. My core of trust going into today was Nanook, Jay, Alison, Hally, and Sabie, with Wisp and SD on the middle tier, so I’m okay.

It’s just, what are the chances a misdirector would hit a cop on the first try?

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Fri Jul 10, 2020 1:51 am Anyone else that wouldn't kill Nanook? Maybe Kitsu? Let's WIFOM for days

WIFOM?

On a side note, how far apart are out time differences? Lol

I’ll be heading out in about an hour to take my son to his dr appointment, but it’s my day off so I’ll be around pretty much all day after that.

hmm. Why does a misdirector target SD there of all people? Mafia misdirector trying to hit quiet players, thinking they're more likely to be PRs lurking in the shadows is my best bet.

Just in case: if you are town and a misdirector or similar, please do not use your action on people just yet. At this stage in the game is is a liability and creates chaos.

Alison wrote: ↑Fri Jul 10, 2020 4:22 am my debate tournament is over unfortunately early, my teammate got sick so we had to drop out after 2 rounds

sorry it didnt go well

KitsuShel wrote: ↑Fri Jul 10, 2020 10:01 am

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Fri Jul 10, 2020 1:51 am Anyone else that wouldn't kill Nanook? Maybe Kitsu? Let's WIFOM for days

WIFOM?

wine in front of me

the circular reasoning that results from someone knowing their actions will be subject to scrutiny

i.e. epi wouldnt kill nanook. but he would know we’d think he wouldnt kill nanook so hed kill him to clear himself. but he would know wed suspect just that so he wouldnt kill him after all. but... and so on

Alison wrote: ↑Fri Jul 10, 2020 11:29 am hmm. Why does a misdirector target SD there of all people? Mafia misdirector trying to hit quiet players, thinking they're more likely to be PRs lurking in the shadows is my best bet.

Just in case: if you are town and a misdirector or similar, please do not use your action on people just yet. At this stage in the game is is a liability and creates chaos.

if there is town who used a redirect on daisy they gotta claim that. it outs the 3p

my guess is its an anti-town role though so i doubt we get a claim

Hally wrote: ↑Fri Jul 10, 2020 11:38 am

Alison wrote: ↑Fri Jul 10, 2020 11:29 am hmm. Why does a misdirector target SD there of all people? Mafia misdirector trying to hit quiet players, thinking they're more likely to be PRs lurking in the shadows is my best bet.

Just in case: if you are town and a misdirector or similar, please do not use your action on people just yet. At this stage in the game is is a liability and creates chaos.

if there is town who used a redirect on daisy they gotta claim that. it outs the 3p

my guess is its an anti-town role though so i doubt we get a claim

why does town who used redirect on daisy claiming out the 3P?

I also think it's probably an anti-town role but it doesn't hurt to say it just in case I guess. Some people have an itchy trigger finger

is there any other explanation for my, wisps and daisys actions last night besides that daisy was redirected to the real 3p?

just wanna make sure we leave no stone unturned

Hally wrote: ↑Fri Jul 10, 2020 11:36 am

KitsuShel wrote: ↑Fri Jul 10, 2020 10:01 am

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Fri Jul 10, 2020 1:51 am Anyone else that wouldn't kill Nanook? Maybe Kitsu? Let's WIFOM for days

WIFOM?

wine in front of me

the circular reasoning that results from someone knowing their actions will be subject to scrutiny

i.e. epi wouldnt kill nanook. but he would know we’d think he wouldnt kill nanook so hed kill him to clear himself. but he would know wed suspect just that so he wouldnt kill him after all. but... and so on

I think the most compelling reason to think Epi killed nanook is along the lines of "Epi has no idea why nanook townread him, and isn't sure he can keep up whatever behavior he did to get townread, so he shoots nanook before nanook can cotton on and catch him." I don't really see Epi as the kind of wolf player to fearkill people though, and there are many much more simple and obvious reasons why a wolf would shoot nanook so it doesn't really make me suspect Epi.

Alison wrote: ↑Fri Jul 10, 2020 11:40 am

Hally wrote: ↑Fri Jul 10, 2020 11:38 am

Alison wrote: ↑Fri Jul 10, 2020 11:29 am hmm. Why does a misdirector target SD there of all people? Mafia misdirector trying to hit quiet players, thinking they're more likely to be PRs lurking in the shadows is my best bet.

Just in case: if you are town and a misdirector or similar, please do not use your action on people just yet. At this stage in the game is is a liability and creates chaos.

if there is town who used a redirect on daisy they gotta claim that. it outs the 3p

my guess is its an anti-town role though so i doubt we get a claim

why does town who used redirect on daisy claiming out the 3P?

I also think it's probably an anti-town role but it doesn't hurt to say it just in case I guess. Some people have an itchy trigger finger

because the redirector targeted daisy and redirected her to an unknown player that investigated as 3p. we dont know who this unknown player is but the redirector does because they know who they made daisy target instead

Alison wrote: ↑Fri Jul 10, 2020 11:41 am

Hally wrote: ↑Fri Jul 10, 2020 11:36 am

KitsuShel wrote: ↑Fri Jul 10, 2020 10:01 am

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Fri Jul 10, 2020 1:51 am Anyone else that wouldn't kill Nanook? Maybe Kitsu? Let's WIFOM for days

WIFOM?

wine in front of me

the circular reasoning that results from someone knowing their actions will be subject to scrutiny

i.e. epi wouldnt kill nanook. but he would know we’d think he wouldnt kill nanook so hed kill him to clear himself. but he would know wed suspect just that so he wouldnt kill him after all. but... and so on

I think the most compelling reason to think Epi killed nanook is along the lines of "Epi has no idea why nanook townread him, and isn't sure he can keep up whatever behavior he did to get townread, so he shoots nanook before nanook can cotton on and catch him." I don't really see Epi as the kind of wolf player to fearkill people though, and there are many much more simple and obvious reasons why a wolf would shoot nanook so it doesn't really make me suspect Epi.

i dont disagree

was just explaining the concept to kitsu

Alison wrote: ↑Fri Jul 10, 2020 11:40 am

Hally wrote: ↑Fri Jul 10, 2020 11:38 am

Alison wrote: ↑Fri Jul 10, 2020 11:29 am hmm. Why does a misdirector target SD there of all people? Mafia misdirector trying to hit quiet players, thinking they're more likely to be PRs lurking in the shadows is my best bet.

Just in case: if you are town and a misdirector or similar, please do not use your action on people just yet. At this stage in the game is is a liability and creates chaos.

if there is town who used a redirect on daisy they gotta claim that. it outs the 3p

my guess is its an anti-town role though so i doubt we get a claim

why does town who used redirect on daisy claiming out the 3P?

I also think it's probably an anti-town role but it doesn't hurt to say it just in case I guess. Some people have an itchy trigger finger

My bad - just realized that Spacedaisy found 3P when they checked LC, so it means they were redirected to 3P.

Hally wrote: ↑Fri Jul 10, 2020 11:40 am is there any other explanation for my, wisps and daisys actions last night besides that daisy was redirected to the real 3p?

just wanna make sure we leave no stone unturned

insane cops (cops that give the opposite result of whatever is the truth, seeing townies as scum and scum as townies) and paranoid cops (cops that see everyone as scum) exist. maybe there's some kind of "3P" cop that sees everyone as 3P?

that's my best guess if redirection wasn't involved

Alison wrote: ↑Fri Jul 10, 2020 11:44 am

Hally wrote: ↑Fri Jul 10, 2020 11:40 am is there any other explanation for my, wisps and daisys actions last night besides that daisy was redirected to the real 3p?

just wanna make sure we leave no stone unturned

insane cops (cops that give the opposite result of whatever is the truth, seeing townies as scum and scum as townies) and paranoid cops (cops that see everyone as scum) exist. maybe there's some kind of "3P" cop that sees everyone as 3P?

that's my best guess if redirection wasn't involved

it cant be this because i would still have seen daisys action target lc with my voyeur in that case. i only saw wisp’s thing though, not daisys

Hally wrote: ↑Fri Jul 10, 2020 11:42 am because the redirector targeted daisy and redirected her to an unknown player that investigated as 3p. we dont know who this unknown player is but the redirector does because they know who they made daisy target instead

(We’re sitting and wait for his dr who’s running late, lol)

What if the redirector doesn’t know who the new target was? In my experience, MD (misdirectors) don’t know who their targets will target, it’s usually randomized by the mod. Occasionally, there is a CMD (Controlled Misdirector), but those are usually non-town friendly.

Alison wrote: ↑Fri Jul 10, 2020 11:44 am

Hally wrote: ↑Fri Jul 10, 2020 11:40 am is there any other explanation for my, wisps and daisys actions last night besides that daisy was redirected to the real 3p?

just wanna make sure we leave no stone unturned

insane cops (cops that give the opposite result of whatever is the truth, seeing townies as scum and scum as townies) and paranoid cops (cops that see everyone as scum) exist. maybe there's some kind of "3P" cop that sees everyone as 3P?

that's my best guess if redirection wasn't involved

That would get exposed very quickly. "Geez, why is everyone 3p?" I agree, best guess is scum redirect, and they ain't tellin' who it is.

Why has no one questioned whether SD wasn't redirected? Maybe Wisp was instead. I mean, that's not true, and I did try to confirm my role based on what he saw on my role card... but still. Maybe I'm 3p, Cult Leader, and I recruited Wisp last night and we made this whole plan up. I don't know why I come up with these things.

Hally wrote: ↑Fri Jul 10, 2020 11:43 am

Alison wrote: ↑Fri Jul 10, 2020 11:41 am

Hally wrote: ↑Fri Jul 10, 2020 11:36 am

KitsuShel wrote: ↑Fri Jul 10, 2020 10:01 am

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Fri Jul 10, 2020 1:51 am Anyone else that wouldn't kill Nanook? Maybe Kitsu? Let's WIFOM for days

WIFOM?

wine in front of me

the circular reasoning that results from someone knowing their actions will be subject to scrutiny

i.e. epi wouldnt kill nanook. but he would know we’d think he wouldnt kill nanook so hed kill him to clear himself. but he would know wed suspect just that so he wouldnt kill him after all. but... and so on

I think the most compelling reason to think Epi killed nanook is along the lines of "Epi has no idea why nanook townread him, and isn't sure he can keep up whatever behavior he did to get townread, so he shoots nanook before nanook can cotton on and catch him." I don't really see Epi as the kind of wolf player to fearkill people though, and there are many much more simple and obvious reasons why a wolf would shoot nanook so it doesn't really make me suspect Epi.

i dont disagree

was just explaining the concept to kitsu

Which I thank you for. Once you spelled out the acronym, I understood . TPB is one of my favorite movies, lol.

KitsuShel wrote: ↑Fri Jul 10, 2020 11:49 am

Hally wrote: ↑Fri Jul 10, 2020 11:42 am because the redirector targeted daisy and redirected her to an unknown player that investigated as 3p. we dont know who this unknown player is but the redirector does because they know who they made daisy target instead

(We’re sitting and wait for his dr who’s running late, lol)

What if the redirector doesn’t know who the new target was? In my experience, MD (misdirectors) don’t know who their targets will target, it’s usually randomized by the mod. Occasionally, there is a CMD (Controlled Misdirector), but those are usually non-town friendly.

uh that would be more like a scrambler right?

i thought redirectors do know who theyre redirecting to?

Long Con wrote: ↑Fri Jul 10, 2020 11:49 am

Alison wrote: ↑Fri Jul 10, 2020 11:44 am

Hally wrote: ↑Fri Jul 10, 2020 11:40 am is there any other explanation for my, wisps and daisys actions last night besides that daisy was redirected to the real 3p?

just wanna make sure we leave no stone unturned

insane cops (cops that give the opposite result of whatever is the truth, seeing townies as scum and scum as townies) and paranoid cops (cops that see everyone as scum) exist. maybe there's some kind of "3P" cop that sees everyone as 3P?

that's my best guess if redirection wasn't involved

That would get exposed very quickly. "Geez, why is everyone 3p?" I agree, best guess is scum redirect, and they ain't tellin' who it is.

Why has no one questioned whether SD wasn't redirected? Maybe Wisp was instead. I mean, that's not true, and I did try to confirm my role based on what he saw on my role card... but still. Maybe I'm 3p, Cult Leader, and I recruited Wisp last night and we made this whole plan up. I don't know why I come up with these things.

because i saw wisps action hit you, and it wouldnt have hit you if he got redirected

Hally wrote: ↑Fri Jul 10, 2020 11:52 am

KitsuShel wrote: ↑Fri Jul 10, 2020 11:49 am

Hally wrote: ↑Fri Jul 10, 2020 11:42 am because the redirector targeted daisy and redirected her to an unknown player that investigated as 3p. we dont know who this unknown player is but the redirector does because they know who they made daisy target instead

(We’re sitting and wait for his dr who’s running late, lol)

What if the redirector doesn’t know who the new target was? In my experience, MD (misdirectors) don’t know who their targets will target, it’s usually randomized by the mod. Occasionally, there is a CMD (Controlled Misdirector), but those are usually non-town friendly.

uh that would be more like a scrambler right?

i thought redirectors do know who theyre redirecting to?

That may be the case here, but the term I’m more familiar with is a controlled misdirector. Someone who basically changes X’s target to Y, instead of their original. Is that what you’re callin a Redirector?

i mean, it could be a scrambler too? which means yeah, whoever used the action on daisy doesnt know who the 3p is

i think if scum does know who it is, we’ll be getting a 3p flip soon enough so i wouldnt sweat it

KitsuShel wrote: ↑Fri Jul 10, 2020 11:55 am

Hally wrote: ↑Fri Jul 10, 2020 11:52 am

KitsuShel wrote: ↑Fri Jul 10, 2020 11:49 am

Hally wrote: ↑Fri Jul 10, 2020 11:42 am because the redirector targeted daisy and redirected her to an unknown player that investigated as 3p. we dont know who this unknown player is but the redirector does because they know who they made daisy target instead

(We’re sitting and wait for his dr who’s running late, lol)

What if the redirector doesn’t know who the new target was? In my experience, MD (misdirectors) don’t know who their targets will target, it’s usually randomized by the mod. Occasionally, there is a CMD (Controlled Misdirector), but those are usually non-town friendly.

uh that would be more like a scrambler right?

i thought redirectors do know who theyre redirecting to?

That may be the case here, but the term I’m more familiar with is a controlled misdirector. Someone who basically changes X’s target to Y, instead of their original. Is that what you’re callin a Redirector?

yeah

Hally wrote: ↑Fri Jul 10, 2020 11:53 am

Long Con wrote: ↑Fri Jul 10, 2020 11:49 am

Alison wrote: ↑Fri Jul 10, 2020 11:44 am

Hally wrote: ↑Fri Jul 10, 2020 11:40 am is there any other explanation for my, wisps and daisys actions last night besides that daisy was redirected to the real 3p?

just wanna make sure we leave no stone unturned

insane cops (cops that give the opposite result of whatever is the truth, seeing townies as scum and scum as townies) and paranoid cops (cops that see everyone as scum) exist. maybe there's some kind of "3P" cop that sees everyone as 3P?

that's my best guess if redirection wasn't involved

That would get exposed very quickly. "Geez, why is everyone 3p?" I agree, best guess is scum redirect, and they ain't tellin' who it is.

Why has no one questioned whether SD wasn't redirected? Maybe Wisp was instead. I mean, that's not true, and I did try to confirm my role based on what he saw on my role card... but still. Maybe I'm 3p, Cult Leader, and I recruited Wisp last night and we made this whole plan up. I don't know why I come up with these things.

because i saw wisps action hit you, and it wouldnt have hit you if he got redirected

Also, Wisp mentioned Samurai Jack in reference to LC. That would be hella easy for LC to bust if he was incorrect, which means either they’re working together, or Wisp hit his intended target.

So, reading back, Long Con confirmed that he knows what I mean by Samurai Jack, so my role pm is correct

Wisp wrote: ↑Fri Jul 10, 2020 12:00 pm So, reading back, Long Con confirmed that he knows what I mean by Samurai Jack, so my role pm is correct

i mean uh

if it was incorrect and he was bad he wouldnt exactly tell you lol

Long Con wrote: ↑Fri Jul 10, 2020 11:49 am That would get exposed very quickly. "Geez, why is everyone 3p?" I agree, best guess is scum redirect, and they ain't tellin' who it is.

Why has no one questioned whether SD wasn't redirected? Maybe Wisp was instead. I mean, that's not true, and I did try to confirm my role based on what he saw on my role card... but still. Maybe I'm 3p, Cult Leader, and I recruited Wisp last night and we made this whole plan up. I don't know why I come up with these things.

Hally is a voyeur and saw Wisp check you, so unless Hally and Wisp were both redirected to the same person their story holds water. Occam's Razor is that Spacedaisy was the one that was messed with, since she's the one out of the three with an inconsistent result.

you should have just asked him to character claim

like i already know you (wisp) arent lying because of my action

what we actually needed was to know if the role pm you saw was indeed his not that you saw his role pm

but w/e

Hally wrote: ↑Fri Jul 10, 2020 12:01 pm

Wisp wrote: ↑Fri Jul 10, 2020 12:00 pm So, reading back, Long Con confirmed that he knows what I mean by Samurai Jack, so my role pm is correct

i mean uh

if it was incorrect and he was bad he wouldnt exactly tell you lol

lol...

Hally wrote: ↑Fri Jul 10, 2020 11:55 am i mean, it could be a scrambler too? which means yeah, whoever used the action on daisy doesnt know who the 3p is

i think if scum does know who it is, we’ll be getting a 3p flip soon enough so i wouldnt sweat it

Not sure about the second bit. I often leave 3P alive as scum to mess with town, especially if I think the 3P is more along the lines of Jester (wants to get themselves executed) or Executioner (wants to get a specific townie executed) than an SK (which is what the night results would seem to indicate, since I think FG was shot by a Vigilante and not an SK). In any case the 3P could be immune also.

It all seems to be a wash either way since we can't do much about it if that's the case though. But it's better to find out about a scum misdirector here and now than to get tricked by it later on.

ahh, I see your point now
Whats done is done though

@long con can you paraphrase the flavor on your role card?

then wisp can verify if it matches what he saw

[mention]Long Con[/mention] ^

I kind of already did a little bit. Enemy.

I thought you saw that *someone* targeted me, not that wisp targeted me.

Long Con wrote: ↑Fri Jul 10, 2020 12:14 pm I thought you saw that *someone* targeted me, not that wisp targeted me.

yes, but i saw somebody target you with the exact action that wisp is claiming

how could he know that if its not his action? occams razor hes town and is being truthful and my action corroborates that