The Syndicate

Matt wrote:Again, I love this site.

Matt you are one of my favourites.

Anyway peeps, I'm out. Good luck town!

Linki - Back atcha Golden. I was kind of upset earlier when you named MP your best friend here when we are clearly besties, but it's okay, I forgive you. Late!

Please don't tell glorfindel I'm building a clique.

@glorf - I see you lurking. I think this was a rough first game, but I still hope you give us another go I like you.

Matt wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:I'd vote for Roxy at this stage, frankly, but I'd like to ISO her, Dom, and others before I commit... we'll see how far I get. GTH I agree with Matt that I don't think a civilian Roxy would say "you'll catch a baddie", but I really don't know; she could just be a civilian saying that because she's so beyond wanting out of the game.

Well, I know DH and Epi must've had to reach deep into their bag of replacements to allow me to come back in (just kiddin' hosts...ummm kinda), so if Roxy is really done, then she's probably mod-killed, right?

In that case, I'm going to vote Roxy. Peeps seem to think she's bad anyway, and this way, we see her alignment as opposed to not if she's mod-killed.

MP and Daisy, Question - In Talking Heads, I sussed Black Rock for being bad simply because she replaced in and Long Con had been lynched and flipped mafia. I figured "Well hey, they are an item so they probably discuss their roles with each other if one of them isn't playing and therefore BR must be bad too." My question is, do the two of you discuss your roles with each other if the other isn't playing?

Linki - Yeah Zebra, I knew Mac was being funny, but thought I'd ask what peeps thought since no one seemed to bring it up.

Yeah, she probably would be modkilled, but I know Epi HATES to modkill, so I don't know that would happen.

Regarding your question to me and Daisy: I only will discuss an ongoing game (and my role) with Daisy if I know with 100% certainty there is absolutely no way she will be playing or replacing in. Doesn't happen too often, but sometimes RL or whatever precludes one of us from playing mafia or a game in particular completely, so then I'll be OK talking to her about it.

Golden wrote:@glorf - I see you lurking. I think this was a rough first game, but I still hope you give us another go I like you.

I second this. I like Glorfindel's style.

I just wish people wouldn't go

1 v 1.. Golden isn't being rational, he went off the deep end, my instinct is that it's a bad idea so I'll go with that.

And not take what I actually want them to take out of it, which is the opportunity to ask themselves why I'd suggest it and build theories based on it. Even if they are wrong theories. Which to me, is probably much more important than agreeing with it. I create content, but people don't see it as such.

Ironically, I see the fastidious anti-1 v 1 as being just about as myopic as mac and I are being.

Oh man, this ISO of Dom is taking forever. How does JJJ do this so regularly?

Daisy and I are going to the annual Accounting PhD Christmas Party soon, so I may not finish this... in fact, I want to produce a list of reads too, so I'll shift my focus a bit. Still want to look at Rox's and others' posts quickly though. I'll definitely be able to ISO folks once I'm off for break, but it's really tough to thoroughly ISO players right now.

Oh MP - by the way, even if you don't want to read the 14 pages, you should find my rainbow in there.

Golden wrote:@glorf - I see you lurking. I think this was a rough first game, but I still hope you give us another go I like you.

I agree 100%. I know how difficult it is to play at a new site with all new players, especially if one doesn't have a lot of time... it's rough. I really liked Glorfindel though, he seemed really nice, and I was sad to see him go.

EBWOP In fact, I think I've replaced out of roughly half of games I've tried playing on other sites. It sucks.

Lol, MP has a REALLY hard time not talking to me about games he is in which is precisely why we don't play many together. He does talk to me about games he is playing that I am not, but he always prefaces it by asking if there is any chance I might replace in. In this case I knew that this game had some inactivity problems because he tried to get me to replace in earlier, as he always does when games need replacements. I think it's the site admin in him. so in this case, no I didn't let him talk to me about it, because I wasn't able to replace in before getting past Black Friday. I work in retail management, it's just hellish.

Golden wrote:I just wish people wouldn't go

1 v 1.. Golden isn't being rational, he went off the deep end, my instinct is that it's a bad idea so I'll go with that.

And not take what I actually want them to take out of it, which is the opportunity to ask themselves why I'd suggest it and build theories based on it. Even if they are wrong theories. Which to me, is probably much more important than agreeing with it. I create content, but people don't see it as such.

Ironically, I see the fastidious anti-1 v 1 as being just about as myopic as mac and I are being.

I can recognize this, but you have to understand then that calling for a 1 v 1 under any circumstances is just unnecessary. Sell us on Mac, don't follow it up with a 1 v 1. I felt I would have personally been more willing to read every single one of your posts in detail, whereas I tried to do that here but eventually ended up skimming a lot of your and his conversation after a few pages.

Golden wrote:Oh MP - by the way, even if you don't want to read the 14 pages, you should find my rainbow in there.

Oh, I did! I meant to say something, it just got lost in my sea of responses. I'm constructing mine now, so I'll see what specific questions I have for you, since I'm interested in your reads of others.

Spacedaisy wrote:Lol, MP has a REALLY hard time not talking to me about games he is in which is precisely why we don't play many together. He does talk to me about games he is playing that I am not, but he always prefaces it by asking if there is any chance I might replace in. In this case I knew that this game had some inactivity problems because he tried to get me to replace in earlier, as he always does when games need replacements. I think it's the site admin in him. so in this case, no I didn't let him talk to me about it, because I wasn't able to replace in before getting past Black Friday. I work in retail management, it's just hellish.

So true.

I manage it though, somehow.

MovingPictures07 wrote:Oh man, this ISO of Dom is taking forever. How does JJJ do this so regularly?

Hi.

Iktf.

Hey, wait, you didn't mention me at all!



Bye.

My bad, Rico! Your analysis is always off the charts.

There are others who put an insane amount of effort into games, no slight against them. JJJ is just the first who came to mind because he's a machine.

Elohcin
Golden
Canucklehead
nijuukyugou
MacDougall
thellama73
Matt
MovingPictures07
sig
DFaraday
Bullzeye
Bass_the_Clever
Spacedaisy
Sorsha
DrWilgy
Russtifinko
Bubbles
Dom
Roxy

Not as ugly as my first rainbow but it is inconsistent.

Day 6 MP rainbow reads list:

MacDougall
Golden
nijuukyugou
a2thezebra

sig
Canucklehead

DFaraday
Bullzeye (TheFloyd73)
Matt F 2.0 (Banana)

Elohcin
Russtifinko
DrWilgy

Bubbles
Lukethellama1164673
GlorfinDaisy
Bass_the_Clever 2.0 (Mishimeals)

Sorsha
Dom
Roxy

Players are in order of read (confidence level) within groups.

So I've been making this in alphabetical order, but now each group is by preference within as well.

It's been too long since I made one of these! I have some major changes since my last list (Night 4), and even since the GTH read contest. Some of my reads are more substantive than others, and some are based much more on gut, so I hope to produce some content-driven analyses of these players as soon as I can.

I'll try to elaborate upon this more tonight... I need to leave. But a few remarks while I can:

Mac and Golden are my top 2 town reads. So yeah. Please don't lynch them. I think even during that 14-page fest they both oozed sincerity, even though they made some questionable jumps of logic that reeked of severe tunneling (I would know).

Despite GTHing DFaraday mafia, he ascends back higher again after his recent posts where he fully is able to show his train of thought and analysis. In those, I see a town-minded DFaraday who genuinely cares about catching mafia.

I moved GlorfinDaisy (I love portmanteaus) up because Daisy's contributions have been town-seeming to me... and I'm quick to pounce on her if I read her mafia, but I'm not seeing it here. Also due to some thoughts I mentioned earlier doubting my strong read on Glorfindel with respect to recent events of emotional frustration from him, Rox, etc.

Sorsha is someone that's been steadily falling down my list for a while. I don't see the town spark in her at all these past few cycles. Need to look into her.

Dom would have been an orange read until his most recent responses to me, which I did not feel good about. I felt as though he was purposefully misrepresenting me, and Mac's summation of Dom's behavior (as well as DF's) both align with what I've been seeing with him as well.

I've been thinking Roxy's lack of contributions early in the game, then subsequent attempts to contribute (but based on VERY vague thoughts) have been suspicious, along with her general demeanor. I haven't had the time to look into her properly today and ISO her (or anyone else for that matter), but now she wants out of the game, and I've seen a mafia Roxy quit before (Economics) and self-vote out of frustration. In fact, her playstyle in Economics, the more I think about it, very much aligns with what I've seen from her here, in terms of tone and the way in which she has been suspecting players (and whom she has suspected, such as zebra, whereas she had a similar problem with JJJ in that game for aggressively posting a lot of content).

Voting Roxy

etc. etc. I have to go...

Since it's past 3:00PM here, I need to start getting ready to go to this party, since it starts soon. I'll be back sometime tonight after the deadline for sure, then tomorrow and Monday are crunch study days.

Going to be leaving for a Christmas party shortly, but I did a read through of bass because you know it takes like a minute tops, lol. My thoughts are his pre lynched incarnation did not look bad like at all, so I'm very surprised he got lynched. He always is a low poster, but I didn't see anything else in his posts to make me suspect him so his civ flip is not at all surprising.

One thing of note from before he died:

Bass_the_Clever wrote:

Dom wrote:BAss-- what are you thinking?

I still don't trust zebra. As for Roxy I think it possible the RL is getting in the way of her playing like she normally does. I think if she was bad she would asked to be subbed out so it wouldn't effect her team.

Bass knows Roxy better than any of us, this statement makes me feel all the more that we will probably not get a baddie if we lynch her today. I think she made that statement about herself to try to ensure her lynch because she wants out.

As far as Bass since his replacement back into the game, there is literally nothing to judge. I have no idea what alignment he might have replaced into and would not be interested in voting him right now for that reason.

I have not heard anything back regarding my question about the vote, so I assume the glory index vote remains where it is and I will cast my first vote beginning in the next lynch. I have a couple more food preps to make and then leaving for the party, so I'll tackle the two bigger ISO subjects when I get home. Or maybe one today and one tomorrow, I don't know. I also want to read Glorfindel's posts because I have no clue what he even said, lol.

P.S. Glorfindel, I hope you don't give up on the site because I would like to get a chance to actually play with you.

Linki: whoa, rainbow lists incoming... Lol.

EBWOP: Glorfindel vote, not glory index vote, lol.

MovingPictures07 wrote:

Bullzeye wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:

Bullzeye wrote:

Golden wrote:

Matt wrote:Right now I'm really not liking Golden and Mac being swell with each other suddenly. I get people can change their minds, but I dunno, convenient?

I'm not swell with Mac. I still think a 1 v 1 is a good idea. But hey, MP is denouncing the whole 14 pages thing... that I told Mac I didn't want to do in the first place.

If you don't like the 14 pages between Mac and I, people should have done what I asked in the first place.

You can't denounce the 14 pages on one hand, and denounce the 1 v 1 on the other.

I don't think a 1 v 1 benefits anybody but the baddies, regardless of who the two people are. It's the best way to get away with a noncommital vote that you can in no way be held accountable for since, hey we agreed to do a 1 v 1 remember? So I think you can denounce both. I do. The 14 pages made it super hard to catch up and I don't think anything of value was gained. As a matter of fact I think it was a detriment to everyone, good or bad. I also think 1 v 1 is a poor choice. If you've already forgotten why, start reading this post again. I haven't decided what I think of Mac, but I definitely don't think you're bad at this stage, Golden, and will not be voting for you.

I agree completely, Bullz.

Who are you considering for your vote?

Basically anyone at this stage. There are a handful of people I think are civ, and then everyone else is neutral-bad. I suspected Elo at one point, and Roxy seemed suspicious to me for a bit but now I'm not sure about her. I could be talked into a Mac vote, his posts are sometimes reminding me of his general attitude in TH. I need to reconsider a lot of things but the Doctor Who season finale starts in 5 minutes so I won't be doing that for a little while.

How is it reminding you of Talking Heads, specifically? I thought Mac's early game especially was more sincere, but in Talking Heads I knew the whole time he was mafia, so I can't really compare with a fair judgment.

Can you recall why you suspected Elo and Rox?

I can't remember specifically what it was about Roxy, and would have to reread her. Elo was a few things including general vibe and partly based on the fact I was pretty sure Simon was also bad. There was also a point very early on where she labelled quiet players as bad in something like her very second post of the game, which seemed not only hypocritical but also a fairly irrelevant point so early in the game when 99% of players are quiet low posters.

As for Mac, he's reminding me of his later attitude in TH where he became gradually harsher in tone and more abrasive toward others. It's not a great look and I associate it with that particular baddie game.

Golden wrote:@zebra - if you were a prophet, then you'd be on board with the 1 v 1.

lol - zebra, it's not that.

It's that I know the right thing to do is to lynch Roxy. You can't risk that kind of thing ending in modkill.

But... I really also know that 1 v 1 is a great idea, despite you and others not believing or understanding it.

Golden wrote:I just wish people wouldn't go

1 v 1.. Golden isn't being rational, he went off the deep end, my instinct is that it's a bad idea so I'll go with that.

And not take what I actually want them to take out of it, which is the opportunity to ask themselves why I'd suggest it and build theories based on it. Even if they are wrong theories. Which to me, is probably much more important than agreeing with it. I create content, but people don't see it as such.

Ironically, I see the fastidious anti-1 v 1 as being just about as myopic as mac and I are being.

Please explain why 1 v 1 is a great idea and not an easy way for baddies to make throwaway votes.

I don't see how having everyone in the game agree to narrow our voting options to 2 people is a good idea and I don't think it's myopic to say so.

Okay so my top choice was Glorfindel, but I won't be voting there today. Roxy seems to be gaining votes and I would prefer her being lynched over Mac/Golden. However, I'm not sure about that lynch either. So I'll be voting for Sorsha I already gave my reasoning for it and will be placing my vote there today.

Don't got much time... I want to stay away from Mac vs. Golden. The 1v1 was fun while I was drunk, but I'm against it for now...

I meta'd Sig pretty hard previous and was thinking he was bad, as of late though, Im pretty sure he is civ and am agreeing with his observations... *grumble grumble*

The arguments for Roxy are compelling, I agree with what I have read of Zebra, MP, and Daisy.

My last opinion currently is that Bullzeye made a good point about Mac's behavior, and I agree. Oddly enough I don't think Golden is correct and I read Mac as genuine.

I'm going to place my vote on Sorsha for now. I may or may not be around for EOD, we will see.

Well fuck. That was an unpleasant catch up.
And now I've used up all my mafia-time for today reading instead of posting/looking into zebra/trying to get my head out of Mac v. Golden and onto players I actually think have a chance to be bad.


I'm going to go ahead and vote Roxy. She obviously wants out, and has baddie claimed. I obviously don't see what good it does keeping even an inactive baddie around (if she's telling the truth), and I don't think it's fair to ask someone to replace into the situation Roxy's departure created.
So I'm voting there.

Hopefully during the night phase I will have time to do some work here, but I can't stick around now.

Forgot to add: Roxy, I hope that whatever is upsetting you can be worked out and that you're not really gone for good. You're integral to this site!

Voting Mac. I think he came out the worse of the two in the exchange with Golden, and I don't think Roxy is the type to be so upset if bad.

I did not expect any more Mac or Golden votes after Dom's, interesting.

Counter vote! On Roxy!

I voted Roxy since I never really lost suspicion of her, her statement means she is either bad or causing disruption for the town, and I don't like how many votes Mac has taken.

Hmm... Votes aren't changeable...

DrWilgy wrote:Hmm... Votes aren't changeable...

You forgot this on Day 6? Come on bruh

But trees!!

DrWilgy wrote:But trees!!

Fucken trees.

I'm also gonna *Vote Roxy*. Clearly she wants out, and there has been some suspicion around her anyway. Hopefully this lynch can lead us to something new so that tomorrow isn't just dominated by the same tired Golden/Mac bromance.

Bromance, that's the perfect word for it.

Oh, are we not doing that thing anymore?

I feel like I'm not allowed to call anyone scum right now, like I've been backed into a corner because my playstyle has been so badly criticised by Dom. And also Golden has just taken up the same tired trope despite me trying to play around him which is really unfortunate... because he slipped straight back into the behaviour that had me stuck in a tunnely scum read of him, talking like he knows how I'm thinking when he doesn't. It's especially annoying because he criticised me for making assumptions of him because apparently I don't know him well enough but he thinks he knows me well enough to tunnel me like this. I was fine with the whole thing until I wake up and see that he's back at it after I called for a guns down. It's not fair.

If there are any votes left lynch me because I don't want to be disruptive and make people not want to be here and it appears as though I've done that. I'm a civilian but at least the Golden drama would be over and apparently nobody wants to lynch him, and people will have more fun without me.

Dom is bad, his personal attack on me "having a supreme command of Mafia" etc. revealed that he thinks I'm playing my genuine civ game, and yet he put his vote on me. That's about as obvious as it gets really. He's voted someone he thinks is a civilian.

What happened to the rest of the G2H reads Zebra? I've seen like 10 more people post and nobody has done it.

Bullzeye wrote:
Does nobody else think it's completely ridiculous that someone's role would have to perform a completely subjective act in order to gain benefit, with the sole judge of their success being someone who has btsc with them and not only knows what they have to do but likely shares the benefit? I think the whole idea is dumb tbh. Still catching up.

Agreed, but I'm a baddie for saying it apparently.

MovingPictures07 wrote:Also, I'm tired of you denouncing suspicion against me as a NO U, Dom, just because you expressed vague as hell suspicions of me first. I don't give a crap if it's a NO U. I suspect you for specific reasons, and I'm allowed to.

How about I voice suspicion of literally every other player in the game the next game I play, then denounce every single accusation made against me subsequently as a NO U?

What changed between your "slight town read" of me to now?

Nothing.


You are pulling things out of your ass because you're nervous that I think you're bad. I seriously doubt you're civvie.

MovingPictures07 wrote:The real shame about Golden and Mac's 14 pages of back-and-forth is that they could have spent all of that effort producing analysis of multiple players; instead, we're now at a situation where I feel like it's easy for players to come in and jump on anyone currently with votes.

And instead I feel like we've come to a point in the game where both can't exist.

Golden wrote:Roxy is probably the best way to vote.

I would agree.

a2thezebra wrote:Elohcin
Golden
Canucklehead
nijuukyugou
MacDougall
thellama73
Matt
MovingPictures07
sig
DFaraday
Bullzeye
Bass_the_Clever
Spacedaisy
Sorsha
DrWilgy
Russtifinko
Bubbles
Dom
Roxy

You, like MP, have given close to zero reasons for a mafia read of me.

MacDougall wrote:Dom is bad, his personal attack on me "having a supreme command of Mafia" etc. revealed that he thinks I'm playing my genuine civ game, and yet he put his vote on me. That's about as obvious as it gets really. He's voted someone he thinks is a civilian.

What happened to the rest of the G2H reads Zebra? I've seen like 10 more people post and nobody has done it.

I agree about Dom. G2H has yet to feel appropriate with the tone of the thread since the last one tbh, I feel like those that haven't done it yet wouldn't be up for it in the first place ala Bubbles.

Dom wrote:

Bullzeye wrote:
Does nobody else think it's completely ridiculous that someone's role would have to perform a completely subjective act in order to gain benefit, with the sole judge of their success being someone who has btsc with them and not only knows what they have to do but likely shares the benefit? I think the whole idea is dumb tbh. Still catching up.

Agreed, but I'm a baddie for saying it apparently.

Where did you say that and who replied that you were bad?

Dom wrote:I'm going to rehearsal-- since I have to let Mac know where I'll be so he won't think I'm lurking because god forbid!

But like, you were here, and you didn't post. And apparently it's because I'm a dick and totally responsible for the entire back and forth with Golden. He's fine, it was all me that was draining the energy out of the game. Not him at all. You and he are besties, your vote on me is just defending a god friend.

Whatever man, I'm done with you and I'm done with being personally attacked for playing the game. Eat a dick.

Dom, your vote on Mac isn't justifiable from a town perspective, any town perspective. Before that I was G2H gut-reading you as bad but after that you more or less confirmed it. Not to mention all of your posts since that vote have come off as extremely disingenuous. You've primarily responded just to defend yourself, and you've defended yourself poorly by misrepresenting any and all arguments against you.

linki - Dude

Mac, mods are here for a reason. Mafia is great because we can argue with each other about who's full of shit without any contempt.

5 people haven't voted. I'm only 2 votes behind Roxy. Dom is right Golden and I can't play together in this game and he can't be lynched today numerically so if you're yet to vote please vote me so the game can progress. Roxy should be mod-killed for outing herself anyway.

Yeah ok...

MacDougall wrote: Eat a dick.

I'm not sure if Dom swings that way

What I don't understadn though is both Mac and Golden made a huge fuss how players should vote for one of them then they think that when someone does vote for one of them they are scum>

I'm saying this today we can't have another day phase of golden/mac it has slowed down some since the start, but if it continues then we are providing perfect cover for the scum to not post. I think we will find a scum or two voting for Roxy regardless of how she flips.

I'll read over Dom and see what I see.
@Dom why do you think MP is scum, also why did you vote for Mac?

sig wrote:

MacDougall wrote: Eat a dick.

I'm not sure if Dom swings that way

What I don't understadn though is both Mac and Golden made a huge fuss how players should vote for one of them then they think that when someone does vote for one of them they are scum>

I'm saying this today we can't have another day phase of golden/mac it has slowed down some since the start, but if it continues then we are providing perfect cover for the scum to not post. I think we will find a scum or two voting for Roxy regardless of how she flips.

I'll read over Dom and see what I see.
@Dom why do you think MP is scum, also why did you vote for Mac?

What? I never told people to vote for me. I never agreed to the 1 v 1 at all. Golden is the one calling for votes on himself and he didn't get any. The earliest I started asking for votes is literally my last five posts. So how do you arrive at the conclusion that Mac told people to vote for him and is scum reading them for voting?

Ten dollars says MP says that this isn't an instance of a jaded baddie lashing out. This is different than whatever BS he's accusing me of.