The Syndicate

Dragon D. Luffy wrote:

Golden wrote:

Dragon D. Luffy wrote:Town's cause is to lynch scum.
Scum's cause is not to lynch scum.

Town is active. Scum is passive. Scum plays by stalling and not actually doing things. If someone is not trying to scum, they are more likely to be bad. Because that's the bread and butter of bads.

If I am bad in a game with two baddie teams, I'll be scum-hunting, not stalling.

Why do you think scum would not be genuinely scum-hunting when they have a whole team out there to find?

I admit I was kind of ignoring the specifics of this game, and just talking about general mafia theory to explain why SD not hunting baddies is not a good sign for him.

At that time, though, SD had not 'not hunted baddies'.

All he happened to have done was claimed he didn't read his role. At that point, I'm not sure I'd even posted at all. Isn't it a bit soon to say someone wasn't hunting baddies? And who is to even say that 'not reading his role' would mean he wouldn't hunt baddies, even if he was unaware of his win condition?

What I find odd in the whole thing is how 'gospel' some people seemed to take his statement. Day zeroes are full of banter early. If I saw a statement like that from someone I didn't know very well, my first point of call would be to verify whether or not there was any reason for the statement - for example, start by asking SD questions (and asking anyone else if they are familiar than Snow Dog) rather than immediately throwing him in the drink...

Golden wrote:

Dragon D. Luffy wrote:

Golden wrote:

Dragon D. Luffy wrote:Town's cause is to lynch scum.
Scum's cause is not to lynch scum.

Town is active. Scum is passive. Scum plays by stalling and not actually doing things. If someone is not trying to scum, they are more likely to be bad. Because that's the bread and butter of bads.

If I am bad in a game with two baddie teams, I'll be scum-hunting, not stalling.

Why do you think scum would not be genuinely scum-hunting when they have a whole team out there to find?

I admit I was kind of ignoring the specifics of this game, and just talking about general mafia theory to explain why SD not hunting baddies is not a good sign for him.

At that time, though, SD had not 'not hunted baddies'.

All he happened to have done was claimed he didn't read his role. At that point, I'm not sure I'd even posted at all. Isn't it a bit soon to say someone wasn't hunting baddies? And who is to even say that 'not reading his role' would mean he wouldn't hunt baddies, even if he was unaware of his win condition?

What I find odd in the whole thing is how 'gospel' some people seemed to take his statement. Day zeroes are full of banter early. If I saw a statement like that from someone I didn't know very well, my first point of call would be to verify whether or not there was any reason for the statement - for example, start by asking SD questions (and asking anyone else if they are familiar than Snow Dog) rather than immediately throwing him in the drink...

You make a good point. I highlighted a specific bit but I'm on board with basically all of this.

I think Luffy was way too eager to try and paint Snow Dog as bad for it. I don't know why Snow Dog has dominated the discussion, especially among Monkey Islanders. Not going to complain though.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote:By the way, is Day 0 followed by Day 1 or Night 0?

One of the fun things about this site is the inventive things that people come up with when they construct their game. Sometimes but very rarely you'd start with Night 0 so that abilities have effect from day one, but it would be very odd to start with Day 0 and night 0 - I don't think I've ever seen that.

Dragon D. Luffy wrote:Two pages after his first post and I already think Sig looks fishy.

Must... not... lynch... Sig... again.

Has there been anything else to really talk about? I mean day 0 is in general fluff and checking in. There was some drama with Snow Dog, but it didn't give me a good feeling of anything.

I also agree with SD on the point she made.

SD = snow dog = he?
SD = Spacedaisy = she?

Lets try to avoid using SD! So confusing.

Golden wrote:SD = snow dog = he?
SD = Spacedaisy = she?

Lets try to avoid using SD! So confusing.

HEY MATTY
are you mafia?

Lest I remind you, sig, we could be in for Snow Dog and sig confusion due to scotty's autocorrect (quote from BSG):

Scotty wrote:EBWOP
SVS could eat a hat, not cat.

Now please, a few more people vote for dog

[/quote]

Quin, I expect my opening will be a bit lower volume than Monkey Island due to vacation and preparing for vacation - hence the whole "I shouldn't join but I love you guys too much to do anything else" thing.

Nachomamma8 wrote:Quin, I expect my opening will be a bit lower volume than Monkey Island due to vacation and preparing for vacation - hence the whole "I shouldn't join but I love you guys too much to do anything else" thing.

That's all good. I wasn't calling you suspicious for it or anything, it was just an observation I felt needed to be made.

Quin wrote:

Golden wrote:

Dragon D. Luffy wrote:

Golden wrote:

Dragon D. Luffy wrote:Town's cause is to lynch scum.
Scum's cause is not to lynch scum.

Town is active. Scum is passive. Scum plays by stalling and not actually doing things. If someone is not trying to scum, they are more likely to be bad. Because that's the bread and butter of bads.

If I am bad in a game with two baddie teams, I'll be scum-hunting, not stalling.

Why do you think scum would not be genuinely scum-hunting when they have a whole team out there to find?

I admit I was kind of ignoring the specifics of this game, and just talking about general mafia theory to explain why SD not hunting baddies is not a good sign for him.

At that time, though, SD had not 'not hunted baddies'.

All he happened to have done was claimed he didn't read his role. At that point, I'm not sure I'd even posted at all. Isn't it a bit soon to say someone wasn't hunting baddies? And who is to even say that 'not reading his role' would mean he wouldn't hunt baddies, even if he was unaware of his win condition?

What I find odd in the whole thing is how 'gospel' some people seemed to take his statement. Day zeroes are full of banter early. If I saw a statement like that from someone I didn't know very well, my first point of call would be to verify whether or not there was any reason for the statement - for example, start by asking SD questions (and asking anyone else if they are familiar than Snow Dog) rather than immediately throwing him in the drink...

You make a good point. I highlighted a specific bit but I'm on board with basically all of this.

I think Luffy was way too eager to try and paint Snow Dog as bad for it. I don't know why Snow Dog has dominated the discussion, especially among Monkey Islanders. Not going to complain though.

(In reference to the blue mostly)

I'm excited to understand this site's meta more where I can start to understand roles more - I didn't have a single guess to who was what role by the end of Monkey Island and I've found the lack of information makes me feel very very lost, but I'm hoping that changes pretty soon!!

Quin wrote:

Nachomamma8 wrote:Quin, I expect my opening will be a bit lower volume than Monkey Island due to vacation and preparing for vacation - hence the whole "I shouldn't join but I love you guys too much to do anything else" thing.

That's all good. I wasn't calling you suspicious for it or anything, it was just an observation I felt needed to be made.

I'm utterly heartbroken that you were scum last game, I thought we were fated to be brothers

Nachomamma8 wrote:

Quin wrote:

Nachomamma8 wrote:Quin, I expect my opening will be a bit lower volume than Monkey Island due to vacation and preparing for vacation - hence the whole "I shouldn't join but I love you guys too much to do anything else" thing.

That's all good. I wasn't calling you suspicious for it or anything, it was just an observation I felt needed to be made.

I'm utterly heartbroken that you were scum last game, I thought we were fated to be brothers

I was not! I was indie, so that may yet be our fate

What I'm getting at is the situation isn't this huge conflict. It's a statement, a joke, and it's only purpose as of now is generating content that we can't even use, it's more so being used to setup boundaries/groups of people for whatever reason

sprityo wrote:What I'm getting at is the situation isn't this huge conflict. It's a statement, a joke, and it's only purpose as of now is generating content that we can't even use, it's more so being used to setup boundaries/groups of people for whatever reason

Why do you think we can't use it? I've taken quite a lot out of the discussion so far.

But for real though, Golden and Quin makes a good point about it

Quin wrote:

sprityo wrote:What I'm getting at is the situation isn't this huge conflict. It's a statement, a joke, and it's only purpose as of now is generating content that we can't even use, it's more so being used to setup boundaries/groups of people for whatever reason

Why do you think we can't use it? I've taken quite a lot out of the discussion so far.

What have you taken away, since I just see it as filler

Golden's opening seems good; I tenatively agree with his townread on Zebra although I expect a good portion of my townread on her is just for her being different from last game and I know it's a bad metric when she's publicly declared she was using a different style this game.

I think that MM's approach seems very MM-esque, am soul reading him as town but that read is weak enough where it will change at the slightest hint of trouble.

Agreeing that New Jack City seems town; I don't at all agree with his approach to the Snow Dog thing but the way he pursued was dripping with conviction and while that's not exactly a town tell in multiball I like people who stick their necks out that much early.

sprityo wrote:

Quin wrote:

sprityo wrote:What I'm getting at is the situation isn't this huge conflict. It's a statement, a joke, and it's only purpose as of now is generating content that we can't even use, it's more so being used to setup boundaries/groups of people for whatever reason

Why do you think we can't use it? I've taken quite a lot out of the discussion so far.

What have you taken away, since I just see it as filler

Off the topic of my head:

- I don't trust DDL. I'll probably vote for him today.
- I recall Epi pulling up the names of people who took part in the discussion that also played Monkey Island, so I can analyse their content to see if it's compatible with that.
- Epi put some blind trust for Day 1 in Jack and (someone else), so that's something we can look at in hindsight if one of them flips bad later on.

Also, I'm not getting linki for some reason. Am I the only one?

It's a bad idea to style-read Zebra, but what I perceive in her posts are good motives and an effort to cut through bullsuit.

-what about DXL makes him untrustworthy. Is it his playstyle, or something he's said or done thus far?
-I personally don't trust cross analysis of past games since a new game is opportunity for change every single time. Habits are there sure, but nothing can stop a person from changing
-I'm following what you're saying, and I suppose that's about the extent that you can go outside of role claiming day 0.

Quin wrote:Also, I'm not getting linki for some reason. Am I the only one?

Oop, yea I didn't get it just now

I haven't specifically noticed not getting linki but I have noticed that I 'missed' reading some posts so that could explain why.

I went looking through setting to see if you could have turned it off accidentally. Maybe it's a thread setting.

sprityo wrote:-what about DXL makes him untrustworthy. Is it his playstyle, or something he's said or done thus far?
-I personally don't trust cross analysis of past games since a new game is opportunity for change every single time. Habits are there sure, but nothing can stop a person from changing
-I'm following what you're saying, and I suppose that's about the extent that you can go outside of role claiming day 0.

1. When Wilgy claimed he was going to play without reading his role in Monkey Island, I knew by common sense that he was having us on, so I find it off-putting that anybody took Snow Dog seriously, even among those that didn't play MI. Luffy is the only one I can recall having done so, but this really applies to anybody. I think Golden's also made good points against him.

2. Neither do I. But in this case, it's about what do people 'know' as opposed to how to people 'act'.

3. That's all speculation. I don't have a read of Epi, Jack or Snow Dog (the other person Epi put his trust in) yet.

Golden wrote:I haven't specifically noticed not getting linki but I have noticed that I 'missed' reading some posts so that could explain why.

I went looking through setting to see if you could have turned it off accidentally. Maybe it's a thread setting.

Yeah, that's exactly what I'm experiencing. But I think I've had it happen since before this game.

Wait, did you interpret something from that post sprityo? I didn't intend that, if you did.

Dragon D. Luffy wrote:

insertnamehere wrote:

Dragon D. Luffy wrote:

Epignosis wrote:Additionally, if "scum is passive" then I'm terrible when I'm Mafia. If you really believe that DDL, then you would be eager to lynch someone who hadn't posted at all at that point (like me or Eloh), but you went for Snow Dog. Why?

They are. It's the basic nature of the game. Multi-faction games kind of damp that, but generally, mafias are passive.

The game thread is about finding scum. It's what everyone is either doing, or pretending to be doing. The side that is not doing it is the passive one.

Mafias can do things (like manipulate players to act their way and such), but most of them are just smokescreen so civs don't realize they are not actually doing jack shit. Mafias want the day to end already so they can kill players faster and get to LyLo.

Dragon D. Luffy wrote:Also when I say "passive", it's not about number of posts. A player can make 100 posts a day and still not do anything. The scariest baddies are the ones who can do exactly that and still be hard to read, imo.

So, really, "passive baddies" equals people whose cases DDL doesn't agree with?

This just feels very subjective, and not warranting grand statements like calling it the "basic nature of the game."

DDL, when you are bad, do you not try to play as closely to your civ game as possible? Thinking that "aggressive" = civ, and "passive" = scum, wouldn't you try to be as aggressive as possible regardless of alignment?

It feels like a system where you'll always be townread, regardless of actual alignment.

The first statement is putting things in my mouth. I didn't say that.

My baddie game is a work in progress since I'm usually pretty terrible at it and I've only recently played my first game where I lived until the end as bad. So I can't really say much about how I play as baddie, I change it every game. What I can say is, if someone is bad, they will try to look like they are scumhunting, but other than those games with two or more factions, baddies can't scumhunt. So they have to pretend they are doing it. Since that's the number one thing the game thread is for, baddies are passive in the game thread by nature. They have to pretend they are doing the one thing everyone is doing.

And yes, my opinion are subjective. Problem? I refuse to change them because some people think having them makes me a baddie.

You underestimate good mafia. When I'm bad, I can do nothing and still make you think I'm your only hope.

Golden wrote:It's a bad idea to style-read Zebra, but what I perceive in her posts are good motives and an effort to cut through bullsuit.

With an axe made of further bullshit.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote:

Golden wrote:It's a bad idea to style-read Zebra, but what I perceive in her posts are good motives and an effort to cut through bullsuit.

With an axe made of further bullshit.

Maybe, maybe not, but it feels like all of her views are genuinely held, which is ultimately what we are looking for, is it not?

(Still - what about the axe don't you like?)

Epignosis wrote:

Dragon D. Luffy wrote:

insertnamehere wrote:

Dragon D. Luffy wrote:

Epignosis wrote:Additionally, if "scum is passive" then I'm terrible when I'm Mafia. If you really believe that DDL, then you would be eager to lynch someone who hadn't posted at all at that point (like me or Eloh), but you went for Snow Dog. Why?

They are. It's the basic nature of the game. Multi-faction games kind of damp that, but generally, mafias are passive.

The game thread is about finding scum. It's what everyone is either doing, or pretending to be doing. The side that is not doing it is the passive one.

Mafias can do things (like manipulate players to act their way and such), but most of them are just smokescreen so civs don't realize they are not actually doing jack shit. Mafias want the day to end already so they can kill players faster and get to LyLo.

Dragon D. Luffy wrote:Also when I say "passive", it's not about number of posts. A player can make 100 posts a day and still not do anything. The scariest baddies are the ones who can do exactly that and still be hard to read, imo.

So, really, "passive baddies" equals people whose cases DDL doesn't agree with?

This just feels very subjective, and not warranting grand statements like calling it the "basic nature of the game."

DDL, when you are bad, do you not try to play as closely to your civ game as possible? Thinking that "aggressive" = civ, and "passive" = scum, wouldn't you try to be as aggressive as possible regardless of alignment?

It feels like a system where you'll always be townread, regardless of actual alignment.

The first statement is putting things in my mouth. I didn't say that.

My baddie game is a work in progress since I'm usually pretty terrible at it and I've only recently played my first game where I lived until the end as bad. So I can't really say much about how I play as baddie, I change it every game. What I can say is, if someone is bad, they will try to look like they are scumhunting, but other than those games with two or more factions, baddies can't scumhunt. So they have to pretend they are doing it. Since that's the number one thing the game thread is for, baddies are passive in the game thread by nature. They have to pretend they are doing the one thing everyone is doing.

And yes, my opinion are subjective. Problem? I refuse to change them because some people think having them makes me a baddie.

You underestimate good mafia. When I'm bad, I can do nothing and still make you think I'm your only hope.

I think Josephine needs to fact check this.

Nachomamma8 wrote:I'm excited to understand this site's meta more where I can start to understand roles more - I didn't have a single guess to who was what role by the end of Monkey Island and I've found the lack of information makes me feel very very lost, but I'm hoping that changes pretty soon!!

You!

You're the guy who got me lynched on mafiascum but you couldn't explain why I was scummy.

I got lynched, was town, and you were immediately replaced and I never learned why you thought I was mafia. Quite annoyed with you, I was.

In fairness, I was probably shit at vanilla mafia at the time.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?p=4955712

Uh oh spaghettiohs

Jackofhearts2005 wrote:

Nachomamma8 wrote:I'm excited to understand this site's meta more where I can start to understand roles more - I didn't have a single guess to who was what role by the end of Monkey Island and I've found the lack of information makes me feel very very lost, but I'm hoping that changes pretty soon!!

You!

You're the guy who got me lynched on mafiascum but you couldn't explain why I was scummy.

I got lynched, was town, and you were immediately replaced and I never learned why you thought I was mafia. Quite annoyed with you, I was.

In fairness, I was probably shit at vanilla mafia at the time.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?p=4955712

I'd vote Nacho just for a Mariner's Revenge Song narrative as that.

If I had a daykill, I would not have been able to resist.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote:

Nachomamma8 wrote:I'm excited to understand this site's meta more where I can start to understand roles more - I didn't have a single guess to who was what role by the end of Monkey Island and I've found the lack of information makes me feel very very lost, but I'm hoping that changes pretty soon!!

You!

You're the guy who got me lynched on mafiascum but you couldn't explain why I was scummy.

I got lynched, was town, and you were immediately replaced and I never learned why you thought I was mafia. Quite annoyed with you, I was.

In fairness, I was probably shit at vanilla mafia at the time.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?p=4955712

To be fair, you look pretty town in retrospect but holy shit have I mislynched some people for horrible reasons in my day so at least you have company, right...?

Elohcin wrote:then I guess you cannot take me seriously.

I'd guess Epi not taking you seriously isn't a new phenomenon

Well at least if I die night 1 everyone will know what happened!!

I hope that Epi's scum game is half as good as he says it is!!

Nachomamma8 wrote:

Jackofhearts2005 wrote:

Nachomamma8 wrote:I'm excited to understand this site's meta more where I can start to understand roles more - I didn't have a single guess to who was what role by the end of Monkey Island and I've found the lack of information makes me feel very very lost, but I'm hoping that changes pretty soon!!

You!

You're the guy who got me lynched on mafiascum but you couldn't explain why I was scummy.

I got lynched, was town, and you were immediately replaced and I never learned why you thought I was mafia. Quite annoyed with you, I was.

In fairness, I was probably shit at vanilla mafia at the time.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?p=4955712

To be fair, you look pretty town in retrospect but holy shit have I mislynched some people for horrible reasons in my day so at least you have company, right...?

Vindication. Finally.

Nachomamma8 wrote:

Jackofhearts2005 wrote:

Nachomamma8 wrote:I'm excited to understand this site's meta more where I can start to understand roles more - I didn't have a single guess to who was what role by the end of Monkey Island and I've found the lack of information makes me feel very very lost, but I'm hoping that changes pretty soon!!

You!

You're the guy who got me lynched on mafiascum but you couldn't explain why I was scummy.

I got lynched, was town, and you were immediately replaced and I never learned why you thought I was mafia. Quite annoyed with you, I was.

In fairness, I was probably shit at vanilla mafia at the time.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?p=4955712

To be fair, you look pretty town in retrospect but holy shit have I mislynched some people for horrible reasons in my day so at least you have company, right...?

We are two mariners
Our ship's sole survivors
In this belly of a whale
It's ribs are ceiling beams
It's guts are carpeting
I guess we have some time to kill

Epignosis wrote:

Nachomamma8 wrote:

Jackofhearts2005 wrote:

Nachomamma8 wrote:I'm excited to understand this site's meta more where I can start to understand roles more - I didn't have a single guess to who was what role by the end of Monkey Island and I've found the lack of information makes me feel very very lost, but I'm hoping that changes pretty soon!!

You!

You're the guy who got me lynched on mafiascum but you couldn't explain why I was scummy.

I got lynched, was town, and you were immediately replaced and I never learned why you thought I was mafia. Quite annoyed with you, I was.

In fairness, I was probably shit at vanilla mafia at the time.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?p=4955712

To be fair, you look pretty town in retrospect but holy shit have I mislynched some people for horrible reasons in my day so at least you have company, right...?

We are two mariners
Our ship's sole survivors
In this belly of a whale
It's ribs are ceiling beams
It's guts are carpeting
I guess we have some time to kill

Nacho and epi confirmed mafia scummates

Golden wrote:

Epignosis wrote:

Nachomamma8 wrote:

Jackofhearts2005 wrote:

Nachomamma8 wrote:I'm excited to understand this site's meta more where I can start to understand roles more - I didn't have a single guess to who was what role by the end of Monkey Island and I've found the lack of information makes me feel very very lost, but I'm hoping that changes pretty soon!!

You!

You're the guy who got me lynched on mafiascum but you couldn't explain why I was scummy.

I got lynched, was town, and you were immediately replaced and I never learned why you thought I was mafia. Quite annoyed with you, I was.

In fairness, I was probably shit at vanilla mafia at the time.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?p=4955712

To be fair, you look pretty town in retrospect but holy shit have I mislynched some people for horrible reasons in my day so at least you have company, right...?

We are two mariners
Our ship's sole survivors
In this belly of a whale
It's ribs are ceiling beams
It's guts are carpeting
I guess we have some time to kill

Nacho and epi confirmed mafia scummates

Golden does get the context of the song. Shame on him.

The narrator in the song is Jack, and the other mariner is Nacho.

Listen to the song. Good stuff.

*does not

If Epi and I are mafia mates then I mean what I said before except double :o

Nachomamma8 wrote:I hope that Epi's scum game is half as good as he says it is!!

I don't have a "scum game."

Although I'd hope that my scum partner wouldn't just refer to me as "the other guy", things like that make a guy feel like he's not being appreciated.

Epignosis wrote:

Golden wrote:

Epignosis wrote:

Nachomamma8 wrote:

Jackofhearts2005 wrote:

Nachomamma8 wrote:I'm excited to understand this site's meta more where I can start to understand roles more - I didn't have a single guess to who was what role by the end of Monkey Island and I've found the lack of information makes me feel very very lost, but I'm hoping that changes pretty soon!!

You!

You're the guy who got me lynched on mafiascum but you couldn't explain why I was scummy.

I got lynched, was town, and you were immediately replaced and I never learned why you thought I was mafia. Quite annoyed with you, I was.

In fairness, I was probably shit at vanilla mafia at the time.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?p=4955712

To be fair, you look pretty town in retrospect but holy shit have I mislynched some people for horrible reasons in my day so at least you have company, right...?

We are two mariners
Our ship's sole survivors
In this belly of a whale
It's ribs are ceiling beams
It's guts are carpeting
I guess we have some time to kill

Nacho and epi confirmed mafia scummates

Golden does get the context of the song. Shame on him.

The narrator in the song is Jack, and the other mariner is Nacho.

Listen to the song. Good stuff.

Something nacho...sweet mamma. There's a pun there somewhere, I just know it.













Find him bind him...

Epignosis wrote:

Nachomamma8 wrote:I hope that Epi's scum game is half as good as he says it is!!

I don't have a "scum game."

You probably do, just don't know it yet