The Syndicate

Dyslexicon wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Marmot wrote:I see ValidVompyVay is having an identity crisis. Someone help that poor man.

I'm thinking of wearing a Marmot mask next.

Do me! I somehow feel like I'm obstucting the game when I'm the only one gifing. o.o

Marmot wrote:I don't think I can keep up, but I can try.

speedchuck wrote:MAYBE LYNCH:
Luke11646
insertnamehere
DrWilgy
Elohcin
FZ

Dyslexicon wrote:Could lynch:
Luke
FZ
Eloh
INH
Wilgy

Or something like that.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:MP, please tell me more about your town read on speedchuck.

Dyslexicon wrote:@Speed - I didn't mean to say you seemed smug at all, sorry if that came out wrong. It was really more of a compliment of I don't know quite where I have you alignment wise (and it was the same last game), which is really a good thing in mafia.

Dyslexicon wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:MP, please tell me more about your town read on speedchuck.

Wait, does MP town read Speed or not? o.o

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Dyslexicon wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:MP, please tell me more about your town read on speedchuck.

Wait, does MP town read Speed or not? o.o

It was asserted here, though the feeling seems to have waned since.

speedchuck wrote:As for MP's question that you didn't like my snarky response to: I honestly have no idea what an answer to that question would be. "You remind me of something I do as both alignments, but feel more pressure to do as scum. What do you say about that?" - to paraphrase. What do I say about that?

Dyslexicon wrote:@JJJ - The Marmot read was kind of a tinfoil thought that has been disproved. Marmot is a null read, maybe slight town if I was to go crazy. The Speed feeling different to me is nothing more than just that. He feels not as careful and more playfool/bouncy (?). Coupled with him enjoying to play anti-town it does give me a hmmmm.

DrWilgy wrote:Just considering the flow of votes, this is more likely a save than a bus.

Oh well.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

speedchuck wrote:As for MP's question that you didn't like my snarky response to: I honestly have no idea what an answer to that question would be. "You remind me of something I do as both alignments, but feel more pressure to do as scum. What do you say about that?" - to paraphrase. What do I say about that?

Instead of focusing on the notion that MP is working from a perspective of his own meta as he perceives it, you could focus on the assertion itself -- that you were excusing your lack of activity frequently enough to be suspicious. That is an accusation independent of meta. If you feel it shouldn't speak to your alignment, you could say why.

DrWilgy wrote:Going back to work. Lynch Epi everyone.

MovingPictures07 wrote:

Spoiler: show

FZ. wrote:I'm going to start by saying that I hate games that start with me having to defend myself. It never ends well. Either I get lynched, or I spend the entire game trying to tell people that they are wrong, and everything I say just fits into their misconception of me being bad, and whether I succeed or not, I don't have much fun. Therefore, I'm going to do my best to defend myself, but I'm not going to go nuts when people decide to attack and tell me I'm No Uing, and silly stuff like that. This is how I play.
So:

A. MP, in general, this is day 1. Yes, more has happened than usual first days here, but still, it's not like I have evidence of someone actually being bad. I talk about what I read and pops to mind as I read it, and if someone pressures me for a read, I'll state what I see. What I saw (and forgive me for not fully reading your long strategy post), was you suggesting, or at least I assumed you were, that we play the cop card smartly, and a few fake claim. Thus, the baddies can't catch the real cop. Am I wrong about that?

Then, you give about 3-4 names in green, and the rest in grey. So far, so good. I can see you doing it both as a civ and as a baddie. Then, when someone else gives a coloured list, you don't ask about their suspects, but rather why that person trusts Marmot. How can you not see why this looks suspicious? It felt to me like someone trying to fish for reasons for trusting people. And the fact that you were first to give your list (no matter that it wasn't a coloured one, got me even more worried. It's like you were drawing out people to make such a list so you can use it.

Given all that, the fact that you joined the vote on me made me doubt your civviness.
I appreciate you trying to get to the bottom of things, and if you are a civvie, then yes, we should clear things fast, but please explain to me how your actions are from a civvie point of view.


Damn, I need to go. Plenty more to say. I hope to be back later before you all lynch me.

Thank you so much, FZ.; I understand much better now.

I really didn't fathom how my post inquiring about Marmot could be seen as suspicious because I didn't even think of that interpretation.

I can now comprehend how you reached that perspective, but it wasn't what I was accomplishing with that post. I specifically asked about Marmot because the rest of the reads seemed immediately agreeable or reasonable to me, and I have trouble reading Marmot especially early in games.

On reflection, I might not have made that same post if I realized the perspective that you spouted here.

I'm not one to exercise caution when discussing information in the thread, for better or worse, not because I'm careless but in this case because I just didn't think of it that way.

I still don't think it'll matter much though if everyone posts their damn reads, so that we don't have a situation like this.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:F.Z.

Her first post is rather difficult to follow. It has already been discussed some; I have a couple different questions based upon the highlighted content:

Spoiler: show

FZ. wrote:Hi. I was sure a lot more people would check in by now, and I'd miss a lot.

Epi and LC have started the game strongly quite early. This is unlike the last heist game where they seemed relatively trusting of each other (and were both civvies). It feels genuine at the moment, especially since Epi just went back on his suspicion. We'll see. And I have no idea how Insertnamehere factors into things, but while the jokey atmosphere is not uncommon for day 0, I always feel like it's an easy way for baddies to blend in on day 0 and appear like they have no care in the world. So I'll be keeping an eye here.

Carry on.

~ Can you expand on what differences you perceive in the LC/Epi interaction early in this game versus the previous heist (Blue vs. Red?) and what that difference means to you? It is unclear. LC and Epi seemed to trust each other at the start of last game. LC acted like he's Epi's body guard or something, and when I asked Epi about it, he preferred not to answer. ANd like I said, they were both civvies. So when they started going at each other right at the start, it felt different. The jokey tone made me doubt my initial gut feeling that the difference meant something, so my post there just conveys that I've noticed something and I'm keeping an eye

~ What was the purpose or inspiration for mentioning INH in this post? when I thought that maybe that exchange could be innocent, INH was someone I thought could be trying to make something more of that situation with his facetious attitude. Like I said, it's easy to look at ease on the first day when you're bad. I don't think INH has posted much or at all since then.

Spoiler: show

FZ. wrote:This feels like you're trying to draw out the cop. And it feels even worse when it was your idea in the first place to give a list of civvie reads.


I think I might vote for you MP.

This strikes me as a reach, considering MP is Ask About Every Read in the Entire Thread guy.Like I said, it's interesting that he didn't ask about the suspects, only about one specific trusted one, who wasn't on others' list or a consensus among the players

Spoiler: show

FZ. wrote:To be fair, I think that Nutella and I are getting accused for similar things. If it's between me and her, I'll vote Nutella to save myself, but I can't say I really see what Epi is seeing. People keep thinking that only baddies say something but contradict themselves in the same post to leave every option open later on. That's bullshit. As a baddie, I've tried to look determined plenty of times. Going after someone relentlessly, and I'm often a lot more hesitant as a civvie because the pressure of making a mistake is making me doubt myself.

Regarding the highlighted portion, it'd be ideal if you could expand, FZ, on the specifics of Epi's suspicion of nutella that you don't agree with. You've sort of paired yourself with her by stating that the cases are similar and that she'd only be your vote if self-preservation demands it. Tell me more about the similarities you observe. At them time, I felt that we were both being suspected for basically one post which people viewed as containing both smudging someone and taking it back, or something like that. Apparently, I wasn't being accusatory enough in my post, just throwing something out there and going back on it. That's how I perceived that accusation, and thought Nutella was being accused for the same thing. But since then Epi has explained that his suspicion was for different reasons, and I can't say her post with her vote put me at ease. I will address that later on.

That I've so many questions to ask stemming from 11 posts isn't ideal.

I'll note separately that F.Z. has been the most animated respondent to criticism, there's not a lack of emotion here. I'll have to look back into some prior games to see if I can determine what meaning that has if anything.

Long Con wrote:Hi MP! You're probably bad k

speedchuck wrote:

Long Con wrote:Hi MP! You're probably bad k

Does anyone have any questions for me?

Long Con wrote:Hi MP! You're probably bad k

nutella wrote:

Long Con wrote:Hi MP! You're probably bad k

I'm going back to wanting to think this as well.

MovingPictures07 wrote:

speedchuck wrote:

Long Con wrote:Hi MP! You're probably bad k

Does anyone have any questions for me?

Why do you ask out of nowhere?

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:...I see one post suitable to the character I’d associate with his town play which also inspires a question...

speedchuck wrote:Gut feels right now. Order does not matter.

DO NOT LYNCH:
Dyslexicon
Marmot
Epignosis
JaggedJimmyJay
Long Con
speedchuck
nutella

MAYBE SOMETHING PARANOIA:
MovingPictures07

MAYBE LYNCH:
Luke11646
insertnamehere
DrWilgy
Elohcin
FZ

speedchuck wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:

speedchuck wrote:

Long Con wrote:Hi MP! You're probably bad k

Does anyone have any questions for me?

Why do you ask out of nowhere?

It's something I do sometimes. Helps me with direction in the game, gets me into discussion.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Please expand on the tinfoil concern you previously had about Marmot.

DrWilgy wrote:Expanding on this, at the time of this posts it was 3 vs 4 with Hazelnut in the lead.

The order of votes was that the 3 on FZ came before the 4 on Hazelnut. I don't think it's likely there was a bussing on Hazelnut meaning a busser would have to tie thier teammate up if they are into that, then put them in the lead.

The exception would be Epignosis. Epignosis wouldn't have known in a 3v1 scenario that Hazelnut could take the lead, thus making him a possible busser.

This is all on the assumption Hazelnut is bad.

Going back to work. Lynch Epi everyone.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:That I've so many questions to ask stemming from 11 posts isn't ideal.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:I'll note separately that F.Z. has been the most animated respondent to criticism, there's not a lack of emotion here. I'll have to look back into some prior games to see if I can determine what meaning that has if anything.

speedchuck wrote: This has been the most awkward post.

Dyslexicon wrote:

DrWilgy wrote:Expanding on this, at the time of this posts it was 3 vs 4 with Hazelnut in the lead.

The order of votes was that the 3 on FZ came before the 4 on Hazelnut. I don't think it's likely there was a bussing on Hazelnut meaning a busser would have to tie thier teammate up if they are into that, then put them in the lead.

The exception would be Epignosis. Epignosis wouldn't have known in a 3v1 scenario that Hazelnut could take the lead, thus making him a possible busser.

This is all on the assumption Hazelnut is bad.

Going back to work. Lynch Epi everyone.

If this reasoning hinges on Nut being scum, why not vote Nut instead who actually already have a vote on her? As I see it Epi is pretty unlikely to get lynched as it stands, or do you disagree with this?

MovingPictures07 wrote:I generally agree with your reads here, Jay.

I have one question re: DrWilgy though since I haven't sorted him yet. You said:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:...I see one post suitable to the character I’d associate with his town play which also inspires a question...

Can you elaborate upon this?

speedchuck wrote:I hate to answer Wilgy's question for him, but since he may not be back:

That post was in response to a bus vs save situation. The post talks about a world that assumes nut is bad. Wilgy was analyzing that world, but that doesn't mean anything regarding his read on nut. I don't know how he reads nut.

I would like to know that, though.

Dyslexicon wrote:@MP - Also, regarding your self meta thing. This is all good and well and I follow you on all points. It basically boils down to do I believe you or do I not? I don't want to use my experience or perception of you against you in an unfair way, I just have the thoughts and feels that I do. And I'm not really scum reading you, actually thinking it's (well percentage wise (?)) likely that you are town. In any case, keep on keeping on. One question though - How did Speed go from being a town read to one of your two vote considerations of the day? I didn't follow the progression when I looked over your posts. Can you talk about that?

FZ. wrote:You're also very welcome to check my previous games when I'm suspected. Let me know what you find...

MovingPictures07 wrote:I understand your response regarding my mannerisms. I would emphasize that they're non-alignment-indicative, but obviously you can do with that information however you wish. When I'm actually invested in games, I've grown accustomed to getting the eyeball. I'm not always good at dealing with it but feel free to suspect or prod me however you like, and I'll try to do my best to alleviate any concerns.

Dyslexicon wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:MP, please tell me more about your town read on speedchuck.

Wait, does MP town read Speed or not? o.o