Dr. Who Mafia - Night 12

[Tangrowth]

Great!

I am voting Enrique now then.

[Enrique]

Not really, to be honest (to both of your questions). I am comparing the situations because, yeah you acknowledge this, one was a much heavier argument to lead a lynch. Asking zeek about his possible BTSC is exactly the kind of question I ask in every game.

Sorry I'm having a dorm meeting rn I'll be back to respond in a bit.

[Tangrowth]

Hosts: Are we allowed to discuss the Day 0 poll, and any possible results of it?

Linki with Enri: So you don't really think it was suspicious, but that's what you said here:

No. It's suspicious that he used it without any indication that he was around when it was used.

And you were clearly trying to incriminate him with the when asking, yes?

And I look forward to your more proper response.

[Made]

And this was your intent the entire time? From the post Zeek made about describing characters in the show, to now? @ MP

[Tangrowth]

BAH! EBWOP: I meant to say... "So you don't really think it was suspicious, but that's NOT what you said here:"

[Dana]

Is no one else concerned that our hosts got killed? How are we supposed to play with dead hosts?!?! But I do love how they were all creative with the names in the poll. That is now my favorite thing about this game!

Also two votes for Enri already? You guys. I really don't see anything that weird about what's happened. I feel people may be making a big deal about tiny things.

Bingo. It was really just a bunch of bullshit, and I really have no idea if zeek is bad or not, but I won't be voting for him this time around.

Um, MP, why would you do this? It didn't go anywhere so you just decide "I'll say I was never serious in the first place!" I do not like these mind games, people should say what they mean and mean what they say.

Also what's QED?

[Tangrowth]

And this was your intent the entire time? From the post Zeek made about describing characters in the show, to now? @ MP

Indeed, though I didn't intend on revealing it unless/until I came across something suspicious that came out of it.

I figured: I've pulled all kinds of crazy Day 0 and Day 1 suspicions before, so it was a gambit I was really trying out, and I really wanted to start discussion, to see if people thought I was civvie or not, if they agreed with me or not, if they thought zeek was civvie or not, etc.

I think it worked, given we seem to have gotten a really weird attempt to push a zeek lynch based on something trivial by Enrique.

[Enrique]

BAH! EBWOP: I meant to say... "So you don't really think it was suspicious, but that's NOT what you said here:"

s/suspicious/noteworthy. At that point I'd already accepted your explanation.

[Tangrowth]

Is no one else concerned that our hosts got killed? How are we supposed to play with dead hosts?!?! But I do love how they were all creative with the names in the poll. That is now my favorite thing about this game!

Also two votes for Enri already? You guys. I really don't see anything that weird about what's happened. I feel people may be making a big deal about tiny things.

Bingo. It was really just a bunch of bullshit, and I really have no idea if zeek is bad or not, but I won't be voting for him this time around.

Um, MP, why would you do this? It didn't go anywhere so you just decide "I'll say I was never serious in the first place!" I do not like these mind games, people should say what they mean and mean what they say.

Also what's QED?

It's typically a tradition for the hosts (or host) to kill themselves in the first proper post of the game.

How do you not see anything weird? He clearly tried to say zeek could be suspicious for a ridiculous "slip", then after I responded and explained the situation, he said it would be "really weird thing to slip on", and then afterwards said it was "suspicious"?

And why wouldn't I do it? I really wanted to start discussion and get people talking. The only way to uncover whether someone is a baddie or not is to gauge their responses and discern whether they try pushing a false agenda.

I find your attempt to incriminate me kind of odd.

It was a gambit. I shook the tree up. I wanted to find baddies. I believe I have now. So it worked much better than just sitting and twiddling my thumbs, waiting for shit to happen.

[Tangrowth]

BAH! EBWOP: I meant to say... "So you don't really think it was suspicious, but that's NOT what you said here:"

s/suspicious/noteworthy. At that point I'd already accepted your explanation.

But I showed that it wasn't noteworthy, that it meant nothing. So how could it still be noteworthy?

[Enrique]

*the reason I brought it up in the first place*

Sorry I'm not the kind to pussy out of mafia but I'm literally having the shittest day. Think I'm out for the night. I'm innocent and answering honestly and all that.

[fingersplints]

Just FYI keys and I will be traveling to PA in the morning to visit Chris, so might not be around as much for a few days but will check in when we can

[Tangrowth]

*the reason I brought it up in the first place*

Sorry I'm not the kind to pussy out of mafia but I'm literally having the shittest day. Think I'm out for the night. I'm innocent and answering honestly and all that.

Sorry to hear that, hope it gets better!

Look, I'm willing to entertain that I'm wrong, I've been wrong before, but I'm unconvinced. I look forward to your response, but only after you've sorted out RL first. RL is always more important.

[birdwithteeth11]

Hosts: Are we allowed to discuss the Day 0 poll, and any possible results of it?

I don't have any objections to it. Go for it.

And hope tomorrow is a better day for you, Enrique! Shitty days suck.

[Dana]

I think it worked, given we seem to have gotten a really weird attempt to push a zeek lynch based on something trivial by Enrique.

I don't see anyone attempting to push a zeek lynch. Enrique found something that he thought was odd, commented on it (like you did, even though you weren't serious?) and got an answer. I'm not too sure what the issue is here. Though I also don't think someone who's bad would bring so much attention on themselves so early on, so for now, I think both you and Enrique are good.

He clearly tried to say zeek could be suspicious for a ridiculous "slip", then after I responded and explained the situation, he said it would be "really weird thing to slip on", and then afterwards said it was "suspicious"?

I do think it WOULD have been a weird thing to slip on, if it were a slip. It WAS suspicious when there wasn't the information that he could have known about "supatown". Now that the information has been brought here to the thread, I don't think there's anything too weird going on. It seems like he had accepted the explanation, and then when questioned, was explaining why he thought it was suspicious before. That doesn't mean he still thought it was suspicious at the time he said that.

I find your attempt to incriminate me kind of odd.

I'm not trying to incriminate you, I'm sorry if it seemed that way. Like I said before, I think you're good for right now. I just want us all to be friends!

[Tangrowth]

Hosts: Are we allowed to discuss the Day 0 poll, and any possible results of it?

I don't have any objections to it. Go for it.

And hope tomorrow is a better day for you, Enrique! Shitty days suck.

Did anyone receive any benefits or suffer any consequences as a result of the Day 0 poll? To my knowledge, I have not.

[birdwithteeth11]

Hosts: Are we allowed to discuss the Day 0 poll, and any possible results of it?

I don't have any objections to it. Go for it.

And hope tomorrow is a better day for you, Enrique! Shitty days suck.

Did anyone receive any benefits or suffer any consequences as a result of the Day 0 poll? To my knowledge, I have not.

[Tangrowth]

I think it worked, given we seem to have gotten a really weird attempt to push a zeek lynch based on something trivial by Enrique.

I don't see anyone attempting to push a zeek lynch. Enrique found something that he thought was odd, commented on it (like you did, even though you weren't serious?) and got an answer. I'm not too sure what the issue is here. Though I also don't think someone who's bad would bring so much attention on themselves so early on, so for now, I think both you and Enrique are good.

He clearly tried to say zeek could be suspicious for a ridiculous "slip", then after I responded and explained the situation, he said it would be "really weird thing to slip on", and then afterwards said it was "suspicious"?

I do think it WOULD have been a weird thing to slip on, if it were a slip. It WAS suspicious when there wasn't the information that he could have known about "supatown". Now that the information has been brought here to the thread, I don't think there's anything too weird going on. It seems like he had accepted the explanation, and then when questioned, was explaining why he thought it was suspicious before. That doesn't mean he still thought it was suspicious at the time he said that.

I find your attempt to incriminate me kind of odd.

I'm not trying to incriminate you, I'm sorry if it seemed that way. Like I said before, I think you're good for right now. I just want us all to be friends!

Fair, I don't feel very strongly about this Enrique suspicion, but I do believe in it, and I do think he very well could be bad. I wouldn't have voted him if we couldn't change votes, but since we can, thought I might as well.

No one was attempting to push a zeek lynch, but here's my point: Enrique clearly used the , trying to imply zeek could be bad based on the answer to his question, but here's the thing: There's any number of places zeek could have learned about Supatown. Additionally, even if he did have baddie teammates, why the hell would he purposefully talk about something like that when he could run the risk of this very thing happening? Even if he hadn't voted in the Felt mafia poll, if it was because he had BTSC, it seems to me anyone in their right mind would exercise some degree of caution in saying something like that in thread.

Enrique's supposed questioning was really pointless from the start, but I interpret it as an attempt to try to get zeek to flounder, and increase suspicion on him over the coming 48 hours, because Enrique hadn't expressed a firm opinion on anyone one way or the other thus far. Even if he didn't end up voting zeek, he easily could put more suspicion on zeek with this supposed "slip" and then cause chaos for me and attempt to build off of my original 'suspicion' of zeek being bad.

Personally, in my experience, these so called baddie "slips" are almost never true, so I find the discussion around them always suspicious. Add in the fact that Enrique has been strangely careful with his wording, generally noncommittal yet willing to comment about how weird I was acting, and then add in the fact that he switched from trying to interrogate zeek about this, then to accepting my explanation, then saying it was "suspicious", and NOT ONLY all of that but Enrique saying "usually" he supports SVS even though he just started playing mafia again after a multiple-year break... it just all reads like a lack of sincerity to me, a baddie caught in trying to manipulate something that didn't work out.

[Dana]

No one was attempting to push a zeek lynch, but here's my point: Enrique clearly used the , trying to imply zeek could be bad based on the answer to his question,

Does the usually mean "I think you're bad"? I took it to be maybe half-jokey, or just like "I'm going to keep an eye on you because I don't know for sure yet" not too serious sort of thing.

Enrique's supposed questioning was really pointless from the start, but I interpret it as an attempt to try to get zeek to flounder, and increase suspicion on him over the coming 48 hours, because Enrique hadn't expressed a firm opinion on anyone one way or the other thus far.

Has anyone? Dude, the game JUST started!

Personally, in my experience, these so called baddie "slips" are almost never true, so I find the discussion around them always suspicious. Add in the fact that Enrique has been strangely careful with his wording, generally noncommittal yet willing to comment about how weird I was acting, and then add in the fact that he switched from trying to interrogate zeek about this, then to accepting my explanation, then saying it was "suspicious", and NOT ONLY all of that but Enrique saying "usually" he supports SVS even though he just started playing mafia again after a multiple-year break... it just all reads like a lack of sincerity to me, a baddie caught in trying to manipulate something that didn't work out.

I don't really know much about slips, but yeah, I would think that baddies would be a lot more careful than that. But I also think they'd be a lot more careful than Enrique too, so I don't know.

[Tangrowth]

No one was attempting to push a zeek lynch, but here's my point: Enrique clearly used the , trying to imply zeek could be bad based on the answer to his question,

Does the usually mean "I think you're bad"? I took it to be maybe half-jokey, or just like "I'm going to keep an eye on you because I don't know for sure yet" not too serious sort of thing.

Enrique's supposed questioning was really pointless from the start, but I interpret it as an attempt to try to get zeek to flounder, and increase suspicion on him over the coming 48 hours, because Enrique hadn't expressed a firm opinion on anyone one way or the other thus far.

Has anyone? Dude, the game JUST started!

Personally, in my experience, these so called baddie "slips" are almost never true, so I find the discussion around them always suspicious. Add in the fact that Enrique has been strangely careful with his wording, generally noncommittal yet willing to comment about how weird I was acting, and then add in the fact that he switched from trying to interrogate zeek about this, then to accepting my explanation, then saying it was "suspicious", and NOT ONLY all of that but Enrique saying "usually" he supports SVS even though he just started playing mafia again after a multiple-year break... it just all reads like a lack of sincerity to me, a baddie caught in trying to manipulate something that didn't work out.

I don't really know much about slips, but yeah, I would think that baddies would be a lot more careful than that. But I also think they'd be a lot more careful than Enrique too, so I don't know.

Eh, regarding the eye, I guess it depends. But Enrique posted about it TWICE almost nearly sequentially. It just reads forced to me, totally over the top.

What do you mean has anyone? Clearly I have, and I started plenty of discussion for which he could have sided with or against me or zeek, but sure, that's a fair point; it is still early. And I still have plenty of time to change my vote, do I not?

Most of Enrique's game has been careful though, hasn't it? Up until that slip question? And even that was 'careful', until after I answered for zeek and Enrique sort of flip flopped about it.

Also, baddies can play aggressive games too. I do it all the time.

[Enrique]

Dana's explanation is spot on how I feel tbh. thx Dana, you're the best person.

I really really don't think I'm the kind of player to randomly pick on anyone on day 1, and I wasn't trying to. Give me some credit, guys, what would I be trying to accomplish? Call WIFOM or game-tell or whatever, there's only one other game that I've played in recent memory, but I'm not that risky of a player to try to get anyone killed without a solid reason. Why exactly would I push for the lynch of a random (as far as I'm concerned) civilian? So that I could do it maybe one more time as MP proposes and then get lynched myself? I'm not stupid either. I didn't have an agenda questioning zerk; rather I noticed something, asked him about it, got an explanation and immediately dropped it.

Dana is completely right about the other post calling him "suspicious." I used the same word Dom did, only explaining what my thought process had been. I wasn't trying to imply that I was leaning one way or another re: zeek.

@linki- I posted twice, yeah. First time when I noticed, second after doing a forum-wide search of "Supatown" to confirm zeek hadn't used it before.

Fwiw I pretty much agree with Dana that the game just started. IMO there wasn't as much worthwhile/serious discussion on Day 0 as you'd make it seem, but yeah, perspective.

[Epignosis]

*the reason I brought it up in the first place*

Sorry I'm not the kind to pussy out of mafia but I'm literally having the shittest day. Think I'm out for the night. I'm innocent and answering honestly and all that.

Don't buy real life excuses for a game you were happy in a couple of hours ago.

Leaving my vote on you. Still think you should be voted out.

[Enrique]

MP, not making any accusations, but you know what seemed really forced and over the top for me? Oh but then no one bought it, so I guess it was a ruse all along!

@Epig: ... no comment. You clearly know my life so well

[Tangrowth]

Anyway, it's obviously just become Day 1 and there's still so much game to happen. I'll consider other options. I hope BR, LC, and Snow Dog show up soon; all three of them can contribute intriguing perspectives to a game. I'm going to cool my activity a bit since I've made my point about Enrique, and Thursdays are my busy days, so I'll be a bit inactive, but I'll definitely be back. I'm curious to see what occurs next.

And Dana (or anyone else that is wondering), I just want to clarify that I know my gambit was risky, but I highly doubted anyone would take the bait, but on the off chance it did happen, I totally wanted to catch someone jumping onto a bullshit bandwagon. It was really just a beginning move and I don't have any intentions on regularly lying about my suspicions. :P There's a reason I kept emphasizing my suspicion on zeek was essentially equivalent to me randomly voting to find a baddie, and that's because that's exactly how I felt. So to be fair, it wasn't really that crazy of a gambit, I just wanted to see how everyone would react.

I'll take into consideration your thoughts about Enrique.

So to summarize, since people surely skip and skim my posts : I really do think Enrique may be bad, because his interactions especially regarding the zeek "slip" thing seem shady, and I feel relatively confident, but not like ABSOLUTELY confident. I really have no idea if zeek is bad or not.

Linki with Enrique: Alright, thanks for the response, I really appreciate it. I'll consider your words here and sit on it.

And I'm not trying to say there was tons of worthwhile discussion on Day 0, but at least there WAS discussion, and there was a main back and forth that you refused to really take any sort of opinion on despite the fact that you found my fixation weird. But I'll back off for now and let other things happen and people make up their minds. And who knows? There's still almost 48 hours, so plenty of time for something more incriminating to pop up. I hope anyway.

Linki AGAIN, man, I'm trying to leave. Here you go again. NOT making any accusations, yet you think my actions have seemed forced and over the top?

Look, why the hell would I need to lie about it as a ruse if no one else bought it? Maybe it's because you haven't played much with me, but I often hold unpopular opinions all the time. I'm not one to lie and say OMG it was a ruse! just because no one else agreed with me. That's absurd. It was a ruse all along, but it wasn't even really much of one, because anyone who was actually paying attention to what I was saying would have noticed I said MULTIPLE times that I really didn't think zeek was bad, and that I wasn't pushing for his lynch. Correct?

So now here you go trying to subtly push that my behavior was really forced and over the top, just like Dana, yet you're "not making any accusations"?

I don't buy it.

Am I bad or not, Enri?

[Dana]

What do you mean has anyone? Clearly I have, and I started plenty of discussion for which he could have sided with or against me or zeek, but sure, that's a fair point; it is still early. And I still have plenty of time to change my vote, do I not?

Of course. But there's also 30ish people in this game, and discussion has been centered on a few. Plenty of people haven't made up their minds about everyone else yet. I feel like it would be a good baddie tactic to just hang out on the sidelines and let all the civs help them by killing each other. That's also why I think early voting is a tiny bit suspicious, even if it can be changed.

Also, baddies can play aggressive games too. I do it all the time.

But it also gets you killed super early, at least as long as I've been around.

[Tangrowth]

What do you mean has anyone? Clearly I have, and I started plenty of discussion for which he could have sided with or against me or zeek, but sure, that's a fair point; it is still early. And I still have plenty of time to change my vote, do I not?

Of course. But there's also 30ish people in this game, and discussion has been centered on a few. Plenty of people haven't made up their minds about everyone else yet. I feel like it would be a good baddie tactic to just hang out on the sidelines and let all the civs help them by killing each other. That's also why I think early voting is a tiny bit suspicious, even if it can be changed.

Also, baddies can play aggressive games too. I do it all the time.

But it also gets you killed super early, at least as long as I've been around.

Sure, and baddies do that all the time, it's called flying under the radar. But it doesn't mean that's the only way they behave.

How is it suspicious if it can be changed? Wait a minute here, hold the phone. Didn't you JUST say you thought I was good, before? Right? So how is my vote suspicious, even a tiny bit?

Sure, I get lynched early sometimes, but other times I don't. I just play the game. I play to catch baddies. I've won as a baddie before, and I have won playing an incredibly aggressive game. And others have as well -- see DH in Misfits.

[Epignosis]

Also, baddies can play aggressive games too. I do it all the time.

But it also gets you killed super early, at least as long as I've been around.

No, I've gotten him killed super early.

[Made]

I think it worked, given we seem to have gotten a really weird attempt to push a zeek lynch based on something trivial by Enrique.

I don't see anyone attempting to push a zeek lynch. Enrique found something that he thought was odd, commented on it (like you did, even though you weren't serious?) and got an answer. I'm not too sure what the issue is here. Though I also don't think someone who's bad would bring so much attention on themselves so early on, so for now, I think both you and Enrique are good.

He clearly tried to say zeek could be suspicious for a ridiculous "slip", then after I responded and explained the situation, he said it would be "really weird thing to slip on", and then afterwards said it was "suspicious"?

I do think it WOULD have been a weird thing to slip on, if it were a slip. It WAS suspicious when there wasn't the information that he could have known about "supatown". Now that the information has been brought here to the thread, I don't think there's anything too weird going on. It seems like he had accepted the explanation, and then when questioned, was explaining why he thought it was suspicious before. That doesn't mean he still thought it was suspicious at the time he said that.

I find your attempt to incriminate me kind of odd.

I'm not trying to incriminate you, I'm sorry if it seemed that way. Like I said before, I think you're good for right now. I just want us all to be friends!

Fair, I don't feel very strongly about this Enrique suspicion, but I do believe in it, and I do think he very well could be bad. I wouldn't have voted him if we couldn't change votes, but since we can, thought I might as well.

No one was attempting to push a zeek lynch, but here's my point: Enrique clearly used the , trying to imply zeek could be bad based on the answer to his question, but here's the thing: There's any number of places zeek could have learned about Supatown. Additionally, even if he did have baddie teammates, why the hell would he purposefully talk about something like that when he could run the risk of this very thing happening? Even if he hadn't voted in the Felt mafia poll, if it was because he had BTSC, it seems to me anyone in their right mind would exercise some degree of caution in saying something like that in thread.

Enrique's supposed questioning was really pointless from the start, but I interpret it as an attempt to try to get zeek to flounder, and increase suspicion on him over the coming 48 hours, because Enrique hadn't expressed a firm opinion on anyone one way or the other thus far. Even if he didn't end up voting zeek, he easily could put more suspicion on zeek with this supposed "slip" and then cause chaos for me and attempt to build off of my original 'suspicion' of zeek being bad.

Personally, in my experience, these so called baddie "slips" are almost never true, so I find the discussion around them always suspicious. Add in the fact that Enrique has been strangely careful with his wording, generally noncommittal yet willing to comment about how weird I was acting, and then add in the fact that he switched from trying to interrogate zeek about this, then to accepting my explanation, then saying it was "suspicious", and NOT ONLY all of that but Enrique saying "usually" he supports SVS even though he just started playing mafia again after a multiple-year break... it just all reads like a lack of sincerity to me, a baddie caught in trying to manipulate something that didn't work out.

Just reread everything. MP, you played that perfectly (way better than when i tried to play this anyways).

The thing that's getting me is that Zeek did flounder after your questioning. Immediately he was put on the defensive and no u'd pretty hard.
I think the most interesting thing is the parallels that can be drawn between your fake behavior and Enri's suposive genuine behavior.

(btw are no u's definitively bad?)

linki- You of all people decided to do a day one gambit. I swear, you wonder why you don't normally make it past day 1....Needless to say i'm very proud.

[Dana]

*the reason I brought it up in the first place*

Sorry I'm not the kind to pussy out of mafia but I'm literally having the shittest day. Think I'm out for the night. I'm innocent and answering honestly and all that.

Don't buy real life excuses for a game you were happy in a couple of hours ago.

Leaving my vote on you. Still think you should be voted out.

I think this is such a bad reason to vote for someone. You can't say someone is lying about having a bad day because they were happy a few hours ago. That's not how life works at all. Things happen, and happy people can turn sad or upset or angry or any other emotion.

[Dana]

How is it suspicious if it can be changed? Wait a minute here, hold the phone. Didn't you JUST say you thought I was good, before? Right? So how is my vote suspicious, even a tiny bit?

Yes, I think you're good. I think the act of voting early in general is a slightly suspicious behavior, but I never said that I think you're bad because of it.

I've won as a baddie before, and I have won playing an incredibly aggressive game. And others have as well -- see DH in Misfits.

No shhhhhhh, we don't talk about DH in Misfits!

[Tangrowth]

Fuck leaving because I feel I'm dominating too much, I'm an addict. I'll be busy pretty much all of tomorrow anyway.

Also, baddies can play aggressive games too. I do it all the time.

But it also gets you killed super early, at least as long as I've been around.

No, I've gotten him killed super early.

LOL, this is true. So have BWT, Daisy, and other people.

I think it worked, given we seem to have gotten a really weird attempt to push a zeek lynch based on something trivial by Enrique.

I don't see anyone attempting to push a zeek lynch. Enrique found something that he thought was odd, commented on it (like you did, even though you weren't serious?) and got an answer. I'm not too sure what the issue is here. Though I also don't think someone who's bad would bring so much attention on themselves so early on, so for now, I think both you and Enrique are good.

He clearly tried to say zeek could be suspicious for a ridiculous "slip", then after I responded and explained the situation, he said it would be "really weird thing to slip on", and then afterwards said it was "suspicious"?

I do think it WOULD have been a weird thing to slip on, if it were a slip. It WAS suspicious when there wasn't the information that he could have known about "supatown". Now that the information has been brought here to the thread, I don't think there's anything too weird going on. It seems like he had accepted the explanation, and then when questioned, was explaining why he thought it was suspicious before. That doesn't mean he still thought it was suspicious at the time he said that.

I find your attempt to incriminate me kind of odd.

I'm not trying to incriminate you, I'm sorry if it seemed that way. Like I said before, I think you're good for right now. I just want us all to be friends!

Fair, I don't feel very strongly about this Enrique suspicion, but I do believe in it, and I do think he very well could be bad. I wouldn't have voted him if we couldn't change votes, but since we can, thought I might as well.

No one was attempting to push a zeek lynch, but here's my point: Enrique clearly used the , trying to imply zeek could be bad based on the answer to his question, but here's the thing: There's any number of places zeek could have learned about Supatown. Additionally, even if he did have baddie teammates, why the hell would he purposefully talk about something like that when he could run the risk of this very thing happening? Even if he hadn't voted in the Felt mafia poll, if it was because he had BTSC, it seems to me anyone in their right mind would exercise some degree of caution in saying something like that in thread.

Enrique's supposed questioning was really pointless from the start, but I interpret it as an attempt to try to get zeek to flounder, and increase suspicion on him over the coming 48 hours, because Enrique hadn't expressed a firm opinion on anyone one way or the other thus far. Even if he didn't end up voting zeek, he easily could put more suspicion on zeek with this supposed "slip" and then cause chaos for me and attempt to build off of my original 'suspicion' of zeek being bad.

Personally, in my experience, these so called baddie "slips" are almost never true, so I find the discussion around them always suspicious. Add in the fact that Enrique has been strangely careful with his wording, generally noncommittal yet willing to comment about how weird I was acting, and then add in the fact that he switched from trying to interrogate zeek about this, then to accepting my explanation, then saying it was "suspicious", and NOT ONLY all of that but Enrique saying "usually" he supports SVS even though he just started playing mafia again after a multiple-year break... it just all reads like a lack of sincerity to me, a baddie caught in trying to manipulate something that didn't work out.

Just reread everything. MP, you played that perfectly (way better than when i tried to play this anyways).

The thing that's getting me is that Zeek did flounder after your questioning. Immediately he was put on the defensive and no u'd pretty hard.
I think the most interesting thing is the parallels that can be drawn between your fake behavior and Enri's suposive genuine behavior.

(btw are no u's definitively bad?)

linki- You of all people decided to do a day one gambit. I swear, you wonder why you don't normally make it past day 1....Needless to say i'm very proud.

Haha, I appreciate the commentary, man.

I know. I was trying to determine whether he was baddie or civvie based on how he'd respond, but in the end I really just don't know; I was also trying to see how other people would play into the equation and see if they'd bandwagon.

I'm a bit confused about what you mean regarding parallels; can you re-word that?

No u's... I don't know, I'm torn. I don't really think so, personally. Honestly, I think I tend to no u more as a civvie than a baddie, but I've seen others very clearly no u and been bad, so it just really depends. The reason I tend to no u as a civvie sometimes if I don't watch myself is because I KNOW I'm a civvie, and when I feel someone is railroading me and not even considering other perspectives, it makes me think they're just trying to get me lynched, which makes me think they're bad. That's more of the impression I got out of zeek, but not being familiar with his style at all, I really just have no idea right now.

Eh, I play to have fun, in the end, and obviously to catch baddies if I'm a civvie. I am an obsessive addict, and as SD said, I'm pretty over the top in general in anything I do, so I just can't help myself. It means I usually don't survive until endgame, though sometimes I make it, but it's totally worth not making it if I feel I'm really playing the game to the best of my ability. What's a win if I don't feel I deserve it, you know?

[Tangrowth]

*the reason I brought it up in the first place*

Sorry I'm not the kind to pussy out of mafia but I'm literally having the shittest day. Think I'm out for the night. I'm innocent and answering honestly and all that.

Don't buy real life excuses for a game you were happy in a couple of hours ago.

Leaving my vote on you. Still think you should be voted out.

I think this is such a bad reason to vote for someone. You can't say someone is lying about having a bad day because they were happy a few hours ago. That's not how life works at all. Things happen, and happy people can turn sad or upset or angry or any other emotion.

I do think Enri needs seriously examined, and while I understand Epi's point that no one should be guilted away from voting someone, I sort of agree here.

How is it suspicious if it can be changed? Wait a minute here, hold the phone. Didn't you JUST say you thought I was good, before? Right? So how is my vote suspicious, even a tiny bit?

Yes, I think you're good. I think the act of voting early in general is a slightly suspicious behavior, but I never said that I think you're bad because of it.

I've won as a baddie before, and I have won playing an incredibly aggressive game. And others have as well -- see DH in Misfits.

No shhhhhhh, we don't talk about DH in Misfits!

Oh, okay, I understand you now. I was really confused by your apparent contradiction.

I actually agree with you; voting early without being able to change your vote doesn't make sense because there is still so much that can happen. Even when I feel REALLY certain someone is bad I don't like to vote early almost all of the time if I can't change my vote.

But since I can change my vote, I'm voting Enri. If I change my mind or see something else that I think will be better before day ends, I'll switch, but otherwise now I don't have to worry about missing the vote.

[Enrique]

I did give my opinion on the back and forth, though, Alex? You even linked the post. I said that I didn't think there was anything to it. That definitely happened.

I don't necessarily think you're bad (meaning I'm not leaning either way). Yeah, actually, bad habit of having to point out questionable behavior every time. This isn't too different from the Made/llama situation in Monty Python (where yes I flipped "recruited baddie," but the majority of discussion was on Day 1. In any case, Made wasn't my teammate like llama insisted). Few things llama said jumped at me, I felt the need to point them out, and we engaged on pointless back and forths where I had to explain that I wasn't pointing the finger at him as much as wondering if he could be bad. I really don't want to get into the same thing here.

Point wasn't trying to guilt anyone away. I'm really having a shit day, as anyone on my IRC channel can attest Point was that I'd need a break from the game for a bit. I don't even know if I was gone for 10 minutes. I, too, am an addict. Sorry. It's really hard to stay away, especially when I feel like I need to say something.

[Epignosis]

*the reason I brought it up in the first place*

Sorry I'm not the kind to pussy out of mafia but I'm literally having the shittest day. Think I'm out for the night. I'm innocent and answering honestly and all that.

Don't buy real life excuses for a game you were happy in a couple of hours ago.

Leaving my vote on you. Still think you should be voted out.

I think this is such a bad reason to vote for someone. You can't say someone is lying about having a bad day because they were happy a few hours ago. That's not how life works at all. Things happen, and happy people can turn sad or upset or angry or any other emotion.

Not the reason I voted.

Sets a bad precedent.

[Tangrowth]

I did give my opinion on the back and forth, though, Alex? You even linked the post. I said that I didn't think there was anything to it. That definitely happened.

I don't necessarily think you're bad (meaning I'm not leaning either way). Yeah, actually, bad habit of having to point out questionable behavior every time. This isn't too different from the Made/llama situation in Monty Python (where yes I flipped "recruited baddie," but the majority of discussion was on Day 1. In any case, Made wasn't my teammate like llama insisted). Few things llama said jumped at me, I felt the need to point them out, and we engaged on pointless back and forths where I had to explain that I wasn't pointing the finger at him as much as wondering if he could be bad. I really don't want to get into the same thing here.

Point wasn't trying to guilt anyone away. I'm really having a shit day, as anyone on my IRC channel can attest Point was that I'd need a break from the game for a bit. I don't even know if I was gone for 10 minutes. I, too, am an addict. Sorry. It's really hard to stay away, especially when I feel like I need to say something.

Okay, true, I suppose I didn't word that correctly -- I really meant more of an opinion that wasn't a big IDK, i.e., noncommittal, on both of our alignments.

Your last couple of responses have read genuine to me, so either I'm a fool or I could be off the mark. I guess we'll see what happens.

[Dana]

Point wasn't trying to guilt anyone away. I'm really having a shit day, as anyone on my IRC channel can attest

Unfortunately yes, I can confirm, bad day was actually being had.

[Made]

I'm a bit confused about what you mean regarding parallels; can you re-word that?

seemingly baseless arguments and use of an eye to denote suspicion should be directed towards a person(zeek) are the main ones I caught. What i find really interesting is how no one followed through on their suspicions. Like Myself, SVS, and Dana all pretty much excused the odd behavior( that we were right to call odd) on the grounds of you being you.

Voting Dana.

[Tangrowth]

I'm going to need to re-read the way everything went down and see if I can pick out anything else, and of course there's still plenty to happen...

I'm really starting to doubt the Enrique deal, but I don't know. Dammit, I really thought I was onto something. Well, hopefully my gambit wasn't in vain. :P

[Dana]

*the reason I brought it up in the first place*

Sorry I'm not the kind to pussy out of mafia but I'm literally having the shittest day. Think I'm out for the night. I'm innocent and answering honestly and all that.

Don't buy real life excuses for a game you were happy in a couple of hours ago.

Leaving my vote on you. Still think you should be voted out.

I think this is such a bad reason to vote for someone. You can't say someone is lying about having a bad day because they were happy a few hours ago. That's not how life works at all. Things happen, and happy people can turn sad or upset or angry or any other emotion.

Not the reason I voted.

Sets a bad precedent.

Can you explain why you did vote, then? I think it was MP (maybe?) who asked you why you voted for Enrique but I don't recall you ever answering.

[Dana]

I'm a bit confused about what you mean regarding parallels; can you re-word that?

seemingly baseless arguments and use of an eye to denote suspicion should be directed towards a person(zeek) are the main ones I caught. What i find really interesting is how no one followed through on their suspicions. Like Myself, SVS, and Dana all pretty much excused the odd behavior( that we were right to call odd) on the grounds of you being you.

Voting Dana.

Made, can you give me some explanation here please?

[Made]

I'm a bit confused about what you mean regarding parallels; can you re-word that?

seemingly baseless arguments and use of an eye to denote suspicion should be directed towards a person(zeek) are the main ones I caught. What i find really interesting is how no one followed through on their suspicions. Like Myself, SVS, and Dana all pretty much excused the odd behavior( that we were right to call odd) on the grounds of you being you.

Voting Dana.

Made, can you give me some explanation here please?

You were suppose to flip the fuck out, then i was suppose to laugh at you.....

[Dana]

I'm a bit confused about what you mean regarding parallels; can you re-word that?

seemingly baseless arguments and use of an eye to denote suspicion should be directed towards a person(zeek) are the main ones I caught. What i find really interesting is how no one followed through on their suspicions. Like Myself, SVS, and Dana all pretty much excused the odd behavior( that we were right to call odd) on the grounds of you being you.

Voting Dana.

Made, can you give me some explanation here please?

You were suppose to flip the fuck out, then i was suppose to laugh at you.....

Oh whoops, sorry, let me try this again. MADE WHAT WHY ARE YOU VOTING FOR ME I DIDN'T DO ANYTHING!?!?! Any better?

[Tangrowth]

I'm a bit confused about what you mean regarding parallels; can you re-word that?

seemingly baseless arguments and use of an eye to denote suspicion should be directed towards a person(zeek) are the main ones I caught. What i find really interesting is how no one followed through on their suspicions. Like Myself, SVS, and Dana all pretty much excused the odd behavior( that we were right to call odd) on the grounds of you being you.

Voting Dana.

You are sort of right; my behavior was at least somewhat odd because I was pulling shit about zeek, even though I was really clear to say I wasn't crusading him as bad. But I have made ridiculous observations like that before, so it's not odd for people to write it off as me just being me, because it really was.

I do agree on one point though, I think it's odd that the zeek/me thing didn't blow up into of a bandwagon one way or the other, which made me believe the baddies maybe are trying to be careful. But maybe it wasn't given the opportunity to.

Why Dana specifically? Not sure I follow you on that one.

Linki, so it was just a joke vote?

[Epignosis]

*the reason I brought it up in the first place*

Sorry I'm not the kind to pussy out of mafia but I'm literally having the shittest day. Think I'm out for the night. I'm innocent and answering honestly and all that.

Don't buy real life excuses for a game you were happy in a couple of hours ago.

Leaving my vote on you. Still think you should be voted out.

I think this is such a bad reason to vote for someone. You can't say someone is lying about having a bad day because they were happy a few hours ago. That's not how life works at all. Things happen, and happy people can turn sad or upset or angry or any other emotion.

Not the reason I voted.

Sets a bad precedent.

Can you explain why you did vote, then? I think it was MP (maybe?) who asked you why you voted for Enrique but I don't recall you ever answering.

http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 091#p85091

[Made]

I'm going to need to re-read the way everything went down and see if I can pick out anything else, and of course there's still plenty to happen...

I'm really starting to doubt the Enrique deal, but I don't know. Dammit, I really thought I was onto something. Well, hopefully my gambit wasn't in vain. :P

I'm going back to review the post Enri made about others. I remember something kinda pinging me about how a question was being proposed back when we were talking about easy lynches.

linki- I didn't vote lol. And thank you Dana, means a lot bud.

[Epignosis]

I am telling you to vote for Enrique. What do I have to gain from this?

If he is lynched and is bad, then I get Night killed.

If he is lynched and is good, then I get lynched.

Which is par for the course for me.

Vote for Enrique.

[Dana]

Vote for Enrique.

Enrique for president 2016

[Made]

I am telling you to vote for Enrique. What do I have to gain from this?

If he is lynched and is bad, then I get Night killed.

If he is lynched and is good, then I get lynched.

Which is par for the course for me.

Vote for Enrique.

The Suicidal Civvie Gambit. Having been on the opposite side of this gambit, i must say, you can get a very fun chain of civvies dying if you're not careful. Assuming you and Enrique are civvie, this would lead to a train of more civvies jumping on to kill the person who killed the previous civvie.

Linki- Isn't Enrique already president?

[Hedgeowl]

Mafia on STV wasn't fun, at all. Lol. *shudders*

Oh god I hated those "HURR 100% CIVVIE DEERRP!" roll call days. I remember once I wrote "100% mafia" just to break the monotony. I figured it would work the same, the LD would check it and it'd come up false, so no harm done, but the rest of the players didn't see things that way, and I was promptly lynched.

Starting to remember why I stopped playing this game in the first place! Ha!

Anyway, looking forward to Day 1.

I think you and Lizzy would get along. She has been lynched early for her eccentric anarchist playstyle as well, but is always a blast. She's also a damned clever baddie and never to be trusted, k.

This thread is long and I am not going to finish catch-up before bed, but looks to be some good debate. Yay! More doctor who smileys are needed though.

I'll be back tomorrow to give thoughts on who I think we should I mean lynch.

[Epignosis]

I am telling you to vote for Enrique. What do I have to gain from this?

If he is lynched and is bad, then I get Night killed.

If he is lynched and is good, then I get lynched.

Which is par for the course for me.

Vote for Enrique.

The Suicidal Civvie Gambit. Having been on the opposite side of this gambit, i must say, you can get a very fun chain of civvies dying if you're not careful. Assuming you and Enrique are civvie, this would lead to a train of more civvies jumping on to kill the person who killed the previous civvie.

Linki- Isn't Enrique already president?

I'm not careful.

Good night.