The Syndicate

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Sun Jan 21, 2018 1:19 am

Elohcin wrote: ↑Sat Jan 20, 2018 9:32 pm I haven't read in a couple days, but I do remember Dunya coming in here defending Simon a lot to someone who was suspecting him. So, that alone is a Simon/Dunya teammie ping. I will put my vote on Dunya since she has the most already. And if she turns out bad, I say we go Simon next.

Yuckyuckyuck.

Y'all told me to just pick someone to vote for. And now you want to say, "yuck"? The two with the most votes were dunya and Simon. Dunya had the most. And I am not sure, but I think if I had voted Simon, it would have made a tie. No, thank you.

My migraine let up for about an hour or two yesterday evening but came back in the middle of the night. I'm starting to think something is wrong with me.

lapluie wrote: ↑Sun Jan 21, 2018 3:09 am For the record, I had my vote on Simon before dunya when I agreed to removing my vote from her. speedhcucks logic on how Simon is no good. I dont know what happens if votes are tied, I still don't think simon is bad just because he's noncommittal & lacking communication throughout this entire game. Mac's logic made most sense to bus simon out of the game because itd be an easy target & it seemed believable that it'd happen. I switched in fear knowing I would have made a bad decision if I didn't go with mac's words how dunya is probably manipulating us to sympathize. I realised we fudged up when she told us to check Elohcin right after polls closed.

I don't understand what this is talking about...check me after polls are closed. Can you explain?

lapluie wrote: ↑Sun Jan 21, 2018 3:17 am @Elohcin did chime in asking who to pick for lynch, out of simon & speed. why dunya?

I chose dunya cause she had the most votes at the time. I asked who I should pick out of dunya, Simon, and chuck becuase they were the top three voted for at the time.

(Yes, I am resorting to searching for my name in the thread and responding. I just want to be open and honest with you all. I am seriously in pain and just trying to get through these days and keep up with the things I am responsible for i.e. mafia, laundry, feeding my children, etc. Bare minimum is what you all are getting from me and that's just gotta be enough for you right now.)

Elohcin wrote: ↑Sun Jan 21, 2018 2:18 pm

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Sun Jan 21, 2018 1:19 am

Elohcin wrote: ↑Sat Jan 20, 2018 9:32 pm I haven't read in a couple days, but I do remember Dunya coming in here defending Simon a lot to someone who was suspecting him. So, that alone is a Simon/Dunya teammie ping. I will put my vote on Dunya since she has the most already. And if she turns out bad, I say we go Simon next.

Yuckyuckyuck.

Y'all told me to just pick someone to vote for. And now you want to say, "yuck"? The two with the most votes were dunya and Simon. Dunya had the most. And I am not sure, but I think if I had voted Simon, it would have made a tie. No, thank you.

My migraine let up for about an hour or two yesterday evening but came back in the middle of the night. I'm starting to think something is wrong with me.

Your vote is not yuck (though I wish you had voted Simon).

What is yuck is picking to vote for the townie and then tying their alignments together. You avoided lynching a baddie and then put forth an excuse to not vote him later either.

Sorry about your migraine. I hope you feel better.

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sun Jan 21, 2018 12:31 pm If we lynch Simon and he’s mafia we have to choose whether to pursue JJJ/ Wilgy or Nutella / Eloh / Lap and there’s way too much room for error. M

what does this mean? where did those groups of names come from and what do they have to do with each other and why do we have to choose between them?

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sun Jan 21, 2018 1:16 pm

Marmot wrote: ↑Sun Jan 21, 2018 1:07 pm Actually Tony, who do you want to lynch tomorrow if you think Simon's a bad lynch?

Good question.

Probably Nutella.

Over Wilgy? Really?

And Jack, yeah I misread your post about Jay. I guess it's more likely that either Simon and Jay are bad together or Simon and Speed are bad together and probably not both. Do you think both Jay and Wilgy are bad for voting for speed?

nutella wrote: ↑Sun Jan 21, 2018 3:58 pm

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sun Jan 21, 2018 12:31 pm If we lynch Simon and he’s mafia we have to choose whether to pursue JJJ/ Wilgy or Nutella / Eloh / Lap and there’s way too much room for error. M

what does this mean? where did those groups of names come from and what do they have to do with each other and why do we have to choose between them?

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sun Jan 21, 2018 1:16 pm

Marmot wrote: ↑Sun Jan 21, 2018 1:07 pm Actually Tony, who do you want to lynch tomorrow if you think Simon's a bad lynch?

Good question.

Probably Nutella.

Over Wilgy? Really?

And Jack, yeah I misread your post about Jay. I guess it's more likely that either Simon and Jay are bad together or Simon and Speed are bad together and probably not both. Do you think both Jay and Wilgy are bad for voting for speed?

JJJ and Wilgy voted together on Speedchuck and would be linked, a case for or against one would almost always involve the other. Eloh and Lap are some of my top suspects on the Dunya lynch. You got thrown in there because I think you’re Mafia. I guess you’re your own category.

OK, I see. Except I still think Lap is town. Her back-and-forth on dunya was unfortunate but I think it was genuine.

nutella wrote: ↑Sun Jan 21, 2018 5:10 pm OK, I see. Except I still think Lap is town. Her back-and-forth on dunya was unfortunate but I think it was genuine.

I’m leaning Town on Lap but man was that EOD rough.

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sun Jan 21, 2018 5:07 pm Eloh and Lap are some of my top suspects on the Dunya lynch.

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sun Jan 21, 2018 5:11 pm I’m leaning Town on Lap

k dude

Night three Nutella read:

nutella wrote: ↑Sun Jan 21, 2018 7:56 am Had I not been so unjustly disenfranchised, I would have tried to save dunya and lynch Simon. I agreed with Jay that speedchuck was the better option, but since he didn't get enough votes and it came down to a near-tie I'd probably have gone Simon. I must admit I did have some doubts about dunya for a bit when the wagon was picking up, but her pleads when it came down to the wire sounded sincere.

I haven't done any in-depth analysis but off the top of my head Jack, Kyle, Lap, and Rabbit come out of this looking pretty good, and Eloh, Quin, LC, and Speed come out looking not-so-good. Jack and Rabbit especially (and Mac but he's dead) did some solid confident hunting work both before and after the result there, and I'm inclined to follow their intuitions. I can't decide how I feel about Jay but I suppose I could see the tinfoil that he's mafia with Simon and Speed. Geez being in two concurrent games with several of the same players is mentally exhausting, I'm trying not to conflate too much meta from Fiddler but I have so many confusing tinfoily wifomy thoughts about Jay in both games lol. It's been hard to keep track but I definitely have a more traditionally civ vibe from him in this game compared to that one, but compared to previous games where he was supatown it's been a bit on the weaker side.

First paragraph reads really Mafia to me. Saying you would vote Simon is one thing but after the lynch it reads like a lot of self cover, especially considering Nut could talk during day 2. He did imply he would vote Simon / Speedchuck if he could, but this was a lot of defense when it wasn’t required.
Second paragraph is fine but also makes room for wishywashy-ness on JJJ.


@linki It’s a mystery.... Dun Dun Dah!

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sun Jan 21, 2018 5:18 pm Night three Nutella read:

nutella wrote: ↑Sun Jan 21, 2018 7:56 am Had I not been so unjustly disenfranchised, I would have tried to save dunya and lynch Simon. I agreed with Jay that speedchuck was the better option, but since he didn't get enough votes and it came down to a near-tie I'd probably have gone Simon. I must admit I did have some doubts about dunya for a bit when the wagon was picking up, but her pleads when it came down to the wire sounded sincere.

I haven't done any in-depth analysis but off the top of my head Jack, Kyle, Lap, and Rabbit come out of this looking pretty good, and Eloh, Quin, LC, and Speed come out looking not-so-good. Jack and Rabbit especially (and Mac but he's dead) did some solid confident hunting work both before and after the result there, and I'm inclined to follow their intuitions. I can't decide how I feel about Jay but I suppose I could see the tinfoil that he's mafia with Simon and Speed. Geez being in two concurrent games with several of the same players is mentally exhausting, I'm trying not to conflate too much meta from Fiddler but I have so many confusing tinfoily wifomy thoughts about Jay in both games lol. It's been hard to keep track but I definitely have a more traditionally civ vibe from him in this game compared to that one, but compared to previous games where he was supatown it's been a bit on the weaker side.

First paragraph reads really Mafia to me. Saying you would vote Simon is one thing but after the lynch it reads like a lot of self cover, especially considering Nut could talk during day 3. He did imply he would vote Simon / Speedchuck if he could, but this was a lot of defense when it wasn’t required.
Second paragraph is fine but also makes room for wishywashy-ness on JJJ.


@linki It’s a mystery.... Dun Dun Dah!

EBWOP

Well, at one point during the lynch when Jay was pushing to vote for speed, I said that I would have voted for speed if it would have likely gained momentum, but by the end when it was still between Simon and Dunya and a speed vote would be ultimately inconsequential I would have gone for Simon.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Sun Jan 21, 2018 2:31 pm

Elohcin wrote: ↑Sun Jan 21, 2018 2:18 pm

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Sun Jan 21, 2018 1:19 am

Elohcin wrote: ↑Sat Jan 20, 2018 9:32 pm I haven't read in a couple days, but I do remember Dunya coming in here defending Simon a lot to someone who was suspecting him. So, that alone is a Simon/Dunya teammie ping. I will put my vote on Dunya since she has the most already. And if she turns out bad, I say we go Simon next.

Yuckyuckyuck.

Y'all told me to just pick someone to vote for. And now you want to say, "yuck"? The two with the most votes were dunya and Simon. Dunya had the most. And I am not sure, but I think if I had voted Simon, it would have made a tie. No, thank you.

My migraine let up for about an hour or two yesterday evening but came back in the middle of the night. I'm starting to think something is wrong with me.

Your vote is not yuck (though I wish you had voted Simon).

What is yuck is picking to vote for the townie and then tying their alignments together. You avoided lynching a baddie and then put forth an excuse to not vote him later either.

Sorry about your migraine. I hope you feel better.

So we know Simon is bad?

Thanks. I look some tylenol codeine I had left over from surgery recovery (which I hate to do) and it finally helped enough for me to be able to get up and get some things done. Estrogen can be a real bitch.

nutella wrote: ↑Sun Jan 21, 2018 3:58 pm

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sun Jan 21, 2018 12:31 pm If we lynch Simon and he’s mafia we have to choose whether to pursue JJJ/ Wilgy or Nutella / Eloh / Lap and there’s way too much room for error. M

what does this mean? where did those groups of names come from and what do they have to do with each other and why do we have to choose between them?

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sun Jan 21, 2018 1:16 pm

Marmot wrote: ↑Sun Jan 21, 2018 1:07 pm Actually Tony, who do you want to lynch tomorrow if you think Simon's a bad lynch?

Good question.

Probably Nutella.

Over Wilgy? Really?

And Jack, yeah I misread your post about Jay. I guess it's more likely that either Simon and Jay are bad together or Simon and Speed are bad together and probably not both. Do you think both Jay and Wilgy are bad for voting for speed?

I think Wilgy is bad for the same reasons I've thought all game. He's not hunting. He's just playing with WIFOM.

I think Jimmy is bad for continually saying he thinks Simon is bad and then looking for excuses to vote for other players instead, particularly switching from basically tied baddie Simon to Speedchuck with no real case even though there were only 15 min until end of day and even though Speed had only one vote on him. This resulted in Dunya, a townie, dying instead of Simon, a baddie.

nutella wrote: ↑Sun Jan 21, 2018 5:14 pm

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sun Jan 21, 2018 5:07 pm Eloh and Lap are some of my top suspects on the Dunya lynch.

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sun Jan 21, 2018 5:11 pm I’m leaning Town on Lap

k dude

Tony is all over the place after that mislynch. Reads of opportunism and fear of being caught pushing a bad idea.

He's passed Wilgy as a scumspect in my book.

jack I think I already know the answer to this but do you advocate a Simon lynch day 4?

Kylemii wrote: ↑Sun Jan 21, 2018 6:44 pm jack I think I already know the answer to this but do you advocate a Simon lynch day 4?

Yes. Simon was around at least twice and choose to vote but not address the accusations against him.

Additionally, he's way too difficult to lynch. Jimmy acted to save him. Tony is advocating lynching someone else. Eloh choose Dunya over him on what is supposedly a coin toss and then advocated lynching Simon too if Dunya was bad (but she wasn't). Marmot stated he thought I had info on Simon but voted Dunya.

Now, I doubt that's the 5 person mafia. Too easy. But some of them are defending their buddy. If I was wrong on Simon, he'd have been lynched yesterday.

I think I'm in agreement on Simon. his previous behavior was hit or miss but showing up and almost getting lynched and not commenting on it is like.... I feel like he'd have had to have had something to say about that.

There's also a really eerie contrast between elohs treatment of Simon here and how she treated him in vocaroo (where they were both civ)

Not that it matters what I think now but if I were around next Day phase, I wouldn’t consider lynching Elohcin. She’s claimed consideration from us on compassionate grounds (I too, wish you a speedy recovery, Eloh) and I cannot believe that she would take advantage of that as Mafia. That (to me) would be totally unconscionable and I’d frankly never play again with anyone that did something as unethical as that. I don’t believe Eloh is that kind of person.

Glorfindel wrote: ↑Sun Jan 21, 2018 7:34 pm Not that it matters what I think now but if I were around next Day phase, I wouldn’t consider lynching Elohcin. She’s claimed consideration from us on compassionate grounds (I too, wish you a speedy recovery, Eloh) and I cannot believe that she would take advantage of that as Mafia. That (to me) would be totally unconscionable and I’d frankly never play again with anyone that did something as unethical as that. I don’t believe Eloh is that kind of person.

To be clear, I don't believe Eloh would lie about illness to avoid responsibility. I don't think she's the kind of person who'd do that.

I also wouldn't prioritize her over Simon, since a portion of suspicion against her relies on a link between them anyways, and I'd rather wait til she feels better and can respond.

If I put them in order from least to most bad, it would go Eloh, Marmot, Tony, Jimmy, Simon.

I wouldn't be even worried if I was Eloh and town. It's just the sheer number of people reacting to the Simon train badly that they can't all be town. I doubt all are mafia.

I'm not significantly worried about Lap or Speed. Yeah, maybe there's a baddie in there but there's time to find them later. Nutella, Kyle, Rabbit all trending upward imo.

I'm not a civilian.

I'm not mafia either.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sun Jan 21, 2018 8:53 pm I'm not a civilian.

I'm not mafia either.

I'm gonna lynch you anyway.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Sun Jan 21, 2018 9:07 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sun Jan 21, 2018 8:53 pm I'm not a civilian.

I'm not mafia either.

I'm gonna lynch you anyway.

Then you don't care about the civilian win condition.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sun Jan 21, 2018 9:08 pm

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Sun Jan 21, 2018 9:07 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sun Jan 21, 2018 8:53 pm I'm not a civilian.

I'm not mafia either.

I'm gonna lynch you anyway.

Then you don't care about the civilian win condition.

We have no reason to believe you are neutral and you have shown yourself to be against the town. At best you are an honorary mafia member with a weak nightpower. More likely, you are actually mafia.

Doesn't really matter.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sun Jan 21, 2018 8:53 pm I'm not a civilian.

I'm not mafia either.

I don't understand this post.

Long Con wrote: ↑Sun Jan 21, 2018 9:15 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sun Jan 21, 2018 8:53 pm I'm not a civilian.

I'm not mafia either.

I don't understand this post.

Trying to avoid lynch. Figures lie is easier to swallow than saying he's town.

Show of hands. If Jimmy is really neutral and it came down to 3 town, 3 mafia and Jimmy, anybody think he's gonna vote for the town?

We were always going to have to eliminate Kano.

I don't understand it because I think it's against the rules, and that doesn't jive with what I know of JJJ's usual M.O. So he must be lying.

nutella wrote: ↑Sun Jan 21, 2018 5:14 pm

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sun Jan 21, 2018 5:07 pm Eloh and Lap are some of my top suspects on the Dunya lynch.

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sun Jan 21, 2018 5:11 pm I’m leaning Town on Lap

k dude

Welp

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Sun Jan 21, 2018 9:13 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sun Jan 21, 2018 9:08 pm

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Sun Jan 21, 2018 9:07 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sun Jan 21, 2018 8:53 pm I'm not a civilian.

I'm not mafia either.

I'm gonna lynch you anyway.

Then you don't care about the civilian win condition.

We have no reason to believe you are neutral and you have shown yourself to be against the town. At best you are an honorary mafia member with a weak nightpower. More likely, you are actually mafia.

Doesn't really matter.

Allow me to give you a little advice for future games which you can take or leave:

What I said before about catching mafia not being that easy was the truth. Recall Mountain Mafia. You helped to lynch me, correctly, and for that you deserve credit. Well done and well played. What you did very poorly though was to identify my teammates, and it was the result of you following the most blindingly obvious leads in the thread (Quin and Dom) and ignoring the subtleties of my play.

If you read my posts in this game and actually respect the subtlety, I think you can figure this out. I've given you the answer, all you need to do is find the clues.

I'm not "against the town" as much as you might want to make that assumption for the pleasure of lynching me. The civilians have a limited number of lynches left in this game to eliminate five mafia members. Indeed, I'd be surprised if you have more than 8 opportunities to get 5 baddies. And if you lynch me, you'll have 7 opportunities to get 5 baddies. Don't like what I have to say? Don't trust me? Then don't listen to me.

If you fail to heed my words and you're a civilian, then that is your fault and I can't be assed to help you. I have nobody in this game to disappoint other than myself, and that isn't happening when I am already so goddamned bored.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Sun Jan 21, 2018 9:18 pm We were always going to have to eliminate Kano.

I'm not going to say anything about Kano or any other role, but what you just said is literally false. You don't have to eliminate Ermac either. Neither of them has a thing to do with a civilian victory. It's in the first post. It's directly under the "Order of Light" header. This isn't some "gambit". This is fact.

Long Con wrote: ↑Sun Jan 21, 2018 9:20 pm I don't understand it because I think it's against the rules, and that doesn't jive with what I know of JJJ's usual M.O. So he must be lying.

It's cool, I asked first. I am not trying to be a rule-breaker. I did the same thing in The Office with essentially the same motive and then the mafia blew my head off. Maybe they'll do it again.

While we're giving out advice, don't claim antitown roles.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sun Jan 21, 2018 8:53 pm I'm not a civilian.

I'm not mafia either.

I'm here to counterclaim this shit.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Sun Jan 21, 2018 9:25 pm While we're giving out advice, don't claim antitown roles.

There are only five anti-town roles in this game. There are also two loner roles, neither of whom has to be dead for the civilians to win. Tell me this is a falsehood. Please, try to tell me that.

Marmot wrote: ↑Sun Jan 21, 2018 9:27 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sun Jan 21, 2018 8:53 pm I'm not a civilian.

I'm not mafia either.

I'm here to counterclaim this shit.

Are you the other one? 'Sup bro.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Sun Jan 21, 2018 9:25 pm While we're giving out advice, don't claim antitown roles.

Oh dang, missed this nugget.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sun Jan 21, 2018 9:27 pm

Marmot wrote: ↑Sun Jan 21, 2018 9:27 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sun Jan 21, 2018 8:53 pm I'm not a civilian.

I'm not mafia either.

I'm here to counterclaim this shit.

Are you the other one? 'Sup bro.

Don't other one me. I am you.

If I do eventually get lynched, then y'all should be mindful of anyone who didn't give a shit about the civilian win condition in the process of doing so. There's no civilian motive for that.

"You're lying, JJJ" is the predictable easy-button response, and if y'all want to go there then be my guest. I couldn't have seen that coming..

Anyone though who acknowledges the possibility that I am truthful and still wants to lynch me either has no idea how to do math or is mafia.

I thought I was supposed to be Kano.

Marmot wrote: ↑Sun Jan 21, 2018 9:31 pm Don't other one me. I am you.

You just don't want me to have all the fun.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sun Jan 21, 2018 9:34 pm

Marmot wrote: ↑Sun Jan 21, 2018 9:31 pm Don't other one me. I am you.

You just don't want me to have all the fun.

Are you having fun though?

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sun Jan 21, 2018 9:33 pm If I do eventually get lynched, then y'all should be mindful of anyone who didn't give a shit about the civilian win condition in the process of doing so. There's no civilian motive for that.

"You're lying, JJJ" is the predictable easy-button response, and if y'all want to go there then be my guest. I couldn't have seen that coming..

Anyone though who acknowledges the possibility that I am truthful and still wants to lynch me either has no idea how to do math or is mafia.

But the Civilian win condition requires Civilians to be alive, and Kano's goal is to make Civilians dead.

Maybe I'm Sonya or Jax and I really want you gone.

Achieving a win isn't always as black and white as reading the win condition. We have to play the game.

Scenario 1. We let JJJ live, and he manages to make cases and make votes that make Civs die. Civs lose, Kano wins.

Scenario 2. We lynch JJJ, and get rid of an anti-Civ force in the game. Less Civs die, cleaner lynches, Civs win.

You getting the more complex, raw, gameplay angle here?

RIP Rabbit8. Don't leave.

What the heck..

I'm finally feeling a good bit better, yay. I saw some posts using my real life migraine to decide whether you think I am good or bad in game. I only shared about my RL situation so you all knew why I was so aloof and only responding to posts with my name in them. Don't try to read deeper than that. It isn't fair to use that as an indication of alignment. Just didn't want you guys to think I fell off the face of the earth.

woah linki

[quote=JaggedJimmyJay post_id=399184 time=1516584430 user_id=402]
[quote=Jackofhearts2005 post_id=399182 user_id=541]
While we're giving out advice, don't claim antitown roles.
[/quote]

There are only five anti-town roles in this game. There are also two loner roles, neither of whom has to be dead for the civilians to win. Tell me this is a falsehood. Please, try to tell me that.
[/quote]

Survivors are antitown until there is one mafia member left.

If a survivor plays as a townie, the mafia should shoot them. This secures the survivor's vote for the mafia.

By claiming survivor, a survivor ensures a nightkill will not hit them, essentially killing a townie in the process to save themself.

Kano in particular must eliminate certain townies, making him antitown even if there is only one mafia member left.

With 5 townies, 3 mafia members and a claimed Kano, a lynched townie or going no lynch results in a town loss. Lynching Kano puts it at 4 townies vs 3 mafia and the game continues at lynch or lose, same as if a mafia member was lynched.

And this is even assuming anyone believes your claim, which I don't. A baddie could do this and hope to be left alone. Kano gains nothing from this play.

I'm not buying whatever elochin is putting out, my vote will be on her.

Long Con wrote: ↑Sun Jan 21, 2018 9:38 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sun Jan 21, 2018 9:33 pm If I do eventually get lynched, then y'all should be mindful of anyone who didn't give a shit about the civilian win condition in the process of doing so. There's no civilian motive for that.

"You're lying, JJJ" is the predictable easy-button response, and if y'all want to go there then be my guest. I couldn't have seen that coming..

Anyone though who acknowledges the possibility that I am truthful and still wants to lynch me either has no idea how to do math or is mafia.

But the Civilian win condition requires Civilians to be alive, and Kano's goal is to make Civilians dead.

Maybe I'm Sonya or Jax and I really want you gone.

Achieving a win isn't always as black and white as reading the win condition. We have to play the game.

Scenario 1. We let JJJ live, and he manages to make cases and make votes that make Civs die. Civs lose, Kano wins.

Scenario 2. We lynch JJJ, and get rid of an anti-Civ force in the game. Less Civs die, cleaner lynches, Civs win.

You getting the more complex, raw, gameplay angle here?

The civilians must defeat Outworld. Not Death. Or IndyMarmot.

Are you fucking serious.