The Syndicate

Alison wrote: ↑Tue Jun 30, 2020 3:36 am

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Tue Jun 30, 2020 3:33 am

Alison wrote: ↑Tue Jun 30, 2020 3:31 am

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Tue Jun 30, 2020 3:28 am I’ll real time with you though if you want to! I’m aroundish for a bit.

What do you think about the way Carot has been fixated on me being scum?

Well, it’s a read I mostly share, so....not terrible tbh

Carot’s tough for me to make a good call on cause my time online hasn’t overlapped much with theirs

That is a pretty shallow take on it though. Like agreeing with the read is one thing, but I've constantly emphasized that there's a disparity between Carot's claimed read on me and her actions. Like Carot says I am scum a lot but does very little to actually push me, engage with me, make a case on me, show other people what she sees and why those things paint me as scum... yet is tunnelled enough on me to refuse to consider other pairings simply because I'm not in them, and has basically said she opposes any shot that isn't me.

Does none of that seem AI to you at all?

Could just be play style. Carotenoid said they scumread epi at same time I did but just stayed silent on it for ages.

Alison wrote: ↑Tue Jun 30, 2020 3:37 am I feel like every time I ask you to give a take on Carot action X or Carot action Y you like, silently shrug your shoulders and go "I guess that's reasonable" or "yeah I think it's right" or "tbh I'm not convinced by your case on her".

I feel like Carotenoid Alison debate is most likely town on town, small chance of wolf on town (I would lean carotenoid as the wolf in this world) and very low chance wolf on wolf. The arguments haven't seemed super strong to me and it's been going on for ages, which just means they both believe in their arguments. I feel mafia don't continue pushing a case that isn't getting much support from others, unless I'm misreading the sentiment in their pushes on eachother.

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Tue Jun 30, 2020 3:40 am

Alison wrote: ↑Tue Jun 30, 2020 3:36 am

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Tue Jun 30, 2020 3:33 am

Alison wrote: ↑Tue Jun 30, 2020 3:31 am

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Tue Jun 30, 2020 3:28 am I’ll real time with you though if you want to! I’m aroundish for a bit.

What do you think about the way Carot has been fixated on me being scum?

Well, it’s a read I mostly share, so....not terrible tbh

Carot’s tough for me to make a good call on cause my time online hasn’t overlapped much with theirs

That is a pretty shallow take on it though. Like agreeing with the read is one thing, but I've constantly emphasized that there's a disparity between Carot's claimed read on me and her actions. Like Carot says I am scum a lot but does very little to actually push me, engage with me, make a case on me, show other people what she sees and why those things paint me as scum... yet is tunnelled enough on me to refuse to consider other pairings simply because I'm not in them, and has basically said she opposes any shot that isn't me.

Does none of that seem AI to you at all?

I mean, different people do different things with their reads, yeah? Like...I personally don’t really push reads usually, I just make them then either try to strongarm people into listening to them or barter with townreads to get them to accept my read if I’ll accept one of theirs or whatever. So like...I don’t think handling a read the way you’re describing is particularly AI, tbh? Now, if she makes the read but keeps pushing other places, that I could see maybe.

Or if you can contrast it to a town game where she handled a strong scum read differently, that would potentially be AI.

First time I have come across the concept of horse trading town reads with people and then accepting them. This feels super weird to me. Can someone confirm whether this is common, accepted as good, and that Nanook has an established meta for participating in this activity.

If the plan is to shoot between me and proto and Tony anyway, go ahead. Why bother lol.

Alison wrote: ↑Tue Jun 30, 2020 3:54 am I'm not sure how to get through to you why I think what I think here

I don't think I get it either if that helps.

sabie12 wrote: ↑Tue Jun 30, 2020 6:47 am Awwwww RIP LC Hope to play with you again soon! If I had to pick from the remaining three of protos plan I'd say dunya is the most sketchy. I felt like from the time I came in I thought she was alien but couldn't quite figure out what it is. Her end of day push on dizzy wasn't great. Some town reads on her came from her saying oh I never would have killed hally.

I also thought carrots end of day wasn't great either. Them saying dont shoot dizzy so they could look like hey see they were town I'm good and then kinda disappearing.


Nanook its funny you don't like tutuus suspicion on allison but you also think allison is bad. You suspect me for something I can't defend or explain. Dizzy agreed with me on the points I made against you and now they're dead.

I think Dunya admitted that if they were mafia that Hally is within their kill pool so shouldn't town read her for that.

protocultures wrote: ↑Tue Jun 30, 2020 8:36 am

sabie12 wrote: ↑Tue Jun 30, 2020 6:47 am Awwwww RIP LC Hope to play with you again soon! If I had to pick from the remaining three of protos plan I'd say dunya is the most sketchy. I felt like from the time I came in I thought she was alien but couldn't quite figure out what it is. Her end of day push on dizzy wasn't great. Some town reads on her came from her saying oh I never would have killed hally.

I also thought carrots end of day wasn't great either. Them saying dont shoot dizzy so they could look like hey see they were town I'm good and then kinda disappearing.


Nanook its funny you don't like tutuus suspicion on allison but you also think allison is bad. You suspect me for something I can't defend or explain. Dizzy agreed with me on the points I made against you and now they're dead.

I think Dunya admitted that if they were mafia that Hally is within their kill pool so shouldn't town read her for that.

I said exactly the opposite actually. I would never kill a new player night 1.

You're mistaking me with Dizzy.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Thu Jun 25, 2020 10:06 pm @nutella do you think Dunya would kill Hally after subbing in and then make a post like "oh a syndikat would never do dis omg"?

Notwithstanding I am like 99% sure Epi would have absolutely vetoed that kill if he was mafia.

How did that one percent grow to thinking epi is mafia?

protocultures wrote: ↑Tue Jun 30, 2020 8:05 am

Alison wrote: ↑Tue Jun 30, 2020 3:19 am I protected nut last night btw. I hadn't read the thread yet, but saw the notification to protect her.

Can you also confirm you didn't bunkersave anyone on night 2? Sorry if you did already.

I holstered night 2, yeah.

It's offensive to me people who have played with me for a long time think I can do that. It's one thing if the game had redirects, but deciding yea dunya gonna shoot Hallys head off after hally replaced in without playing for 24 hrs. And yeah dunya gonna take case LC during the night then kill him.

I don't blame the new folks, but Epi and mac and nutella. What is wrong with me??

dunya wrote: ↑Tue Jun 30, 2020 8:32 am If the plan is to shoot between me and proto and Tony anyway, go ahead. Why bother lol.

Don't just give up and lie down to die if you're town. Keep pushing the people you scumread (even if it's me) and project town to nutella. What are your theories about why the wolf team shot LC?

nutella wrote: ↑Thu Jun 25, 2020 10:23 pm

MacDougall wrote: ↑Thu Jun 25, 2020 10:06 pm @nutella do you think Dunya would kill Hally after subbing in and then make a post like "oh a syndikat would never do dis omg"?

Notwithstanding I am like 99% sure Epi would have absolutely vetoed that kill if he was mafia.

I was kinda thinking the same thing about what dunya said and also kinda thinking it could be wifom but honestly idk if even evil dunya is that evil?

ugh she totally could be though

idk

I think I agree with you

So my memory was off. Nutella was saying they don't discount possibility of Dunya killing Hally rather than Dunya admitting they might have killed Hally if they were an alien.

I'm pissed off tbh. I'm gonna try to cool off.

I really don't like to see players just give up when they're under pressure. If they are wolves, it's an unsatisfactory win at best where it felt like they conceded it to us rather than us being sharp-eyed enough to catch them and push the lynch through. If they are town, that is even worse. I've seen you put effort and engagement into the game, I know you can do it. You aren't the only person on nutella's PoE either, so show her why you don't deserve to be the top wolfread there. If you are tilted, go and cool off and come back with a better head to play mafia.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Mon Jun 29, 2020 9:36 pm

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Mon Jun 29, 2020 9:34 pm

MacDougall wrote: ↑Mon Jun 29, 2020 9:33 pm TSP just did a lot of meh things in that post

If you think it’s exactly TSP/Dunya, sure.

I mean why not?

Cause it's not me. Therefore, it's not me and Dunya. Therefore, shoot Carotte or something.
I also don't think it's Dunya for the LC stuff n3 but that can be theatre and if Nutella shoots Dunya and Dunya's an alien we'd be in a good enough position that I'd be fine taking one for the team.

There are a lot of reasons why it's not me and Dunya but we can cross that bridge when we get there too.

Alison wrote: ↑Tue Jun 30, 2020 8:47 am I really don't like to see players just give up when they're under pressure. If they are wolves, it's an unsatisfactory win at best where it felt like they conceded it to us rather than us being sharp-eyed enough to catch them and push the lynch through. If they are town, that is even worse. I've seen you put effort and engagement into the game, I know you can do it. You aren't the only person on nutella's PoE either, so show her why you don't deserve to be the top wolfread there. If you are tilted, go and cool off and come back with a better head to play mafia.

Please dont patronize me. That's not nice either.

dunya wrote: ↑Tue Jun 30, 2020 8:51 am

Alison wrote: ↑Tue Jun 30, 2020 8:47 am I really don't like to see players just give up when they're under pressure. If they are wolves, it's an unsatisfactory win at best where it felt like they conceded it to us rather than us being sharp-eyed enough to catch them and push the lynch through. If they are town, that is even worse. I've seen you put effort and engagement into the game, I know you can do it. You aren't the only person on nutella's PoE either, so show her why you don't deserve to be the top wolfread there. If you are tilted, go and cool off and come back with a better head to play mafia.

Please dont patronize me. That's not nice either.

It wasn't my intent to be patronizing and I'm sorry it came off that way.

I find it difficult to read this amount of raw emotion as anything but town though, as much as I hate being swayed by AtE. Like I genuinely believe dunya is offended that people thought she was mean enough to kill Hally N1.

sabie looks worse than tutuu but I think tutuu was just town and their alignment doesn't change just because a sub out happened. Plus my best guess for the scumteam right now is probably nanook/carot and the way nanook wanted to shoot either of us makes me think we're both town and that's why nanook doesn't particularly care which one of us goes.

So it's established the only way I make sense as scum is if I'm w/w with Dunya via mechanics and interactions. I've only played like one and a half games with Dunya, but read over the last day and a half of her ISO and tell me it reads like a wolf at all. It conveys towniness on all levels. Mechanical stuff be damned. (There are one or two posts that still give me hesitation but whatever.) Proto and Epi is v/v, but they've also been spewing towniness all game independently. Mac is town. That leaves what, three names? One of them seems to have disappeared off the face of the earth and one of them hasn't been around anyways.

Alison wrote: ↑Tue Jun 30, 2020 8:53 am I find it difficult to read this amount of raw emotion as anything but town though, as much as I hate being swayed by AtE. Like I genuinely believe dunya is offended that people thought she was mean enough to kill Hally N1.

!

Alison wrote: ↑Tue Jun 30, 2020 8:55 am sabie looks worse than tutuu but I think tutuu was just town and their alignment doesn't change just because a sub out happened. Plus my best guess for the scumteam right now is probably nanook/carot and the way nanook wanted to shoot either of us makes me think we're both town and that's why nanook doesn't particularly care which one of us goes.

!

Why is Mac town [mention]TonyStarkPrime[/mention]

dunya wrote: ↑Tue Jun 30, 2020 9:00 am Why is Mac town @TonyStarkPrime

He can be allowed to be town based on the day 1 entrance and then specifically the interactions with Rej that seem to spew him town. This is the one I'd be most willing to reevaluate on should it prove necessary.

It is sort of crucial that we hit an alien today so I'll do some digging and look for something a little more substantial.

Why is Dragomir not wolf?

Here's where I'm at. List is in order of confidence: the people at the top are the ones I'm most confident putting into that category.

Town:
Epignosis - He has an established meta that would forbid him to shoot Hally, plus the way Rej claimed a save on him makes me think he's spewed clear.
protocultures - Just consistently the most transparent player in the game. Emotion feels pure when he has it and the Epi/proto tunnel felt like genuine stubbornness on a scumread (if horribly unproductive).
dunya - As mentioned, I think her emotion today is genuine, and I think her play for most of the game has been textbook townie - solving, picking up on clues, paranoia about being manipulated.
MacDougall - there's a lot of fluff to sift through, but when he makes a post that isn't fluff, it's usually good. Interactions with Rej/Soneji clear him. Wasn't sure whether to put him or dunya higher.
sabie - looks worse than tutuu did, but I had a pretty confident townread on tutuu and sabie hasn't done anything to undermine that.

Null:
TSP - The attack on Soneji D1 bought him some towncred in my eyes, but I haven't really been able to get a grasp on him since then, he grapples with a lot of mechanical stuff which just ends up reading as NAI to me (him and proto are like the players I've mentally demarcated as "mechanical play posters" this game). If I'm wrong about my scumreads, probably he's the one I'd look at first.

Scum:
Carotenoid - really low effort shade-casting and I think the push on me is very bad. The reasons themselves for reading me scum are individually bad but the disconnect between the way they're selling their read and the way they actually act is something I can't get over. It reads to me like scum going "oh yeah, I should be scumreading/pushing alison here", but their heart's not in it becauase they know it's not a real read.

Nanook - Kind of annoyed it's D4 and he still hasn't stepped it up. Really do not like the waffly attitude wrt Carot, and I think "sabie/alison" as his PoE is just him picking two random townies to blast without really caring who goes.

Alison wrote: ↑Tue Jun 30, 2020 8:52 am

dunya wrote: ↑Tue Jun 30, 2020 8:51 am

Alison wrote: ↑Tue Jun 30, 2020 8:47 am I really don't like to see players just give up when they're under pressure. If they are wolves, it's an unsatisfactory win at best where it felt like they conceded it to us rather than us being sharp-eyed enough to catch them and push the lynch through. If they are town, that is even worse. I've seen you put effort and engagement into the game, I know you can do it. You aren't the only person on nutella's PoE either, so show her why you don't deserve to be the top wolfread there. If you are tilted, go and cool off and come back with a better head to play mafia.

Please dont patronize me. That's not nice either.

It wasn't my intent to be patronizing and I'm sorry it came off that way.

I'm glad Alison is in the game because very often I think I need to reply to a post and see they have already replied with the follow up question or comment that I would want to make. As such I have a decent idea of how their mind works because it's similar to mine. Doesn't mean they are town for that specifically though since I think we both see that either of us can do that as either alignment.

I will say though that I did not see their post as intending to patronise you either.

So I'm with Alison that i hate reading emotion as town, but I dont think Dunya is faking it here, plus I dont think alien dunya makes a fake accusation of Alison patronising them either, so like, I struggle to see Dunya as an alien unless its exactly Dunya/Alison.

If Alison is an alien, (I dont think so), I think Sabie or Mac is their partner.

I dont think Sabie is ever a partner with Nanook.

Nanook can be partners with almost anyone imo. Their refusal to provide a list and keep pushing off their content to later days which makes it impossible for us to read them is scummy.

Tony is always in my POE but kind of agree, if Dunya is town, I feel less good about him getting lasered. As in, I would prefer the shot went elsewhere. Like Mac.

Giving Sabie a further pass to catch up and give content before I make any super strong reads on them which might be sheeped to pocket me.

Carotenoid I agree has fallen off a bit but theres still beter places to look first. If they do flip scum, that will now be the third time I have said that about scum which makes me look pretty bad. <shrugs> Its my first forum game, I have a license to be bad at the game.

Epi is just lock town.

[mention]Alison[/mention]

What do u mean mac is cleared from rej soneji interactions. Pls explain.

Alison wrote: ↑Tue Jun 30, 2020 9:09 am protocultures - Just consistently the most transparent player in the game. Emotion feels pure when he has it and the Epi/proto tunnel felt like genuine stubbornness on a scumread (if horribly unproductive).

I actually think the tunnel from both sides was massively productive, because we now lock town read eachother.

I am emotional in either alignment; I get invested in my games and I'm a very competitive person, but just like you clear Epi for not killing Hally night 1 based on meta, the same applies to me and the fact it's people I've played with for years who still insist I'm bad despite that is just...mind blowing. Especially when I know 2 of them are town.

I get a taste of my own medicine for refusing to see the light on Dizzy. That's cool. I accept the lesson.

Why are you backing from your own plan, Proto? Wasn't the plan us three must go?

Now it's if nutella kills me and I flip town then Tony is town? How did you reach that conclusion?

dunya wrote: ↑Tue Jun 30, 2020 10:05 am I am emotional in either alignment; I get invested in my games and I'm a very competitive person, but just like you clear Epi for not killing Hally night 1 based on meta, the same applies to me and the fact it's people I've played with for years who still insist I'm bad despite that is just...mind blowing. Especially when I know 2 of them are town.

I get a taste of my own medicine for refusing to see the light on Dizzy. That's cool. I accept the lesson.

I townread Epi for it being unlikely they killed Hally, I lock townread Epi for other things.

If it makes you feel better, I dont think the specific people who are supposed to have better meta on you think you are insisting you are bad, they are just open to the idea.

if you do turn out to be an alien, since you say you get emotional as either alignment, I will put it in a notebook and the next time I am scum and you are town, will do a dirty dirty pocket scheme on you. lol.

Also proto, you didn't give us a blurb about Mac.

Epi has been on my ass since day 1. That's not just "open to the idea". Nutella is convinced it's likely just "dunya and tony lol".

I don't know why either of them town read mac. In at a loss.

dunya wrote: ↑Tue Jun 30, 2020 10:07 am Why are you backing from your own plan, Proto? Wasn't the plan us three must go?

Now it's if nutella kills me and I flip town then Tony is town? How did you reach that conclusion?

Well as I said, i was a bit shaken that Dizzy was town but still thought the plan was the best to continue.

Now you did your emotional posts, I kind of townread you. Which means its just 1 alien in there being Tony, which seems less likely.

I much prefer Nutella shoots Tony before you, and then can decide if we shoot you if Tony flips Alien. If Tony flips town, I kind of dont want you to get lasered anymore.

People can read that as you and me partners, but whatever.

I dont think you think Nutella shoots you before Tony though for what its worth.

How am I partners with Tony? That's what I'd like to know.

The other thing is that now, your appeal to emotion post which I townread is not directed at everyone, but people who know your meta, which is much more "allowed" in my moral sphere I have constructed for you when you do this to people you play with often.

dunya wrote: ↑Tue Jun 30, 2020 10:14 am How am I partners with Tony? That's what I'd like to know.

I just think there were likely to be 2 mafia in the 4.

Mac thinking Proto/Epi is scum theatre blows my mind. Thats why I scumread him. I did say, it might have been a trap post to see who supports the idea.

I am not within my wolf range.

Hally kill makes me not in my wolf range.

Thanks aliens for making it easy for me!

Oh look, I just learned what "wolf range" is the other day from ted and now I'm using it.

I love these new players.

[mention]tedxtr[/mention] thanks babe!

protocultures wrote: ↑Tue Jun 30, 2020 10:17 am Mac thinking Proto/Epi is scum theatre blows my mind. Thats why I scumread him. I did say, it might have been a trap post to see who supports the idea.

What do you think of Dragomir independent of Mac?

I need someone to throw out theories as to why aliens killed LC. That really surprised me.

Least likely to be bunker protected.

I don't think me and the aliens think on the same wavelength anyway considering night 2.

dunya wrote: ↑Tue Jun 30, 2020 10:19 am

protocultures wrote: ↑Tue Jun 30, 2020 10:17 am Mac thinking Proto/Epi is scum theatre blows my mind. Thats why I scumread him. I did say, it might have been a trap post to see who supports the idea.

What do you think of Dragomir independent of Mac?

I didnt think much of Dragomir, kind of NAI from what i remember which is why i wanted to give mac a clean slate. I do also remember when Mac subbed in that a lot of people wanted DragoMac to be lasered next, including Soneji and Rej.