Fargo Mafia [Game Ends]

[BoKnows]

Im a cop lol

Ahhh say less

[Long Con]

Im a cop lol

Nah.

[MacDougall]

For what its worth I recognise your disgust with me misreading you as your town reaction.

"Disgust" is a pretty strong word. I'm thinking your past good reads of me might have just been lucky, and your luck has changed these days.

That seems needlessly harsh.

I thought disgust was a harsher reaction. How do you explain being good, and then suddenly not being good? I didn't change my play.

I haven't been towny very much lately without dying too soon for my opinions to have been anything more than my early game reaction testing.

Also I can't remember the last time I actually tried hard as town to read anyone. I'm not even trying hard here. I've probably read less than 20% of the total game.

[MacDougall]

Im a cop lol

Ahhh say less

Lmfao dying rn

[MacDougall]

Im a cop lol

Nah.

Lmfao dying rn

[MacDougall]

Alison: LC or either town or mafia
LC: So I'm mafia...

[Alison]

Anyway LC is either town or determined to bus a teammate so either way I'm fine letting him do his thing D1.

Who's the teammate, out of curiosity? Oddmerta? Or BoKnows?

I've made it clear that I have Oddmerta as top town so I'm mostly thinking if you're mafia you looked at me and Mac catching BK/Al and decided to bus. Speaking of which you should shift your vote.

[Long Con]

For what its worth I recognise your disgust with me misreading you as your town reaction.

"Disgust" is a pretty strong word. I'm thinking your past good reads of me might have just been lucky, and your luck has changed these days.

That seems needlessly harsh.

I thought disgust was a harsher reaction. How do you explain being good, and then suddenly not being good? I didn't change my play.

I haven't been towny very much lately without dying too soon for my opinions to have been anything more than my early game reaction testing.

Also I can't remember the last time I actually tried hard as town to read anyone. I'm not even trying hard here. I've probably read less than 20% of the total game.

I may be confusing early game reaction testing with actual solid reads.

[MacDougall]

Anyway LC is either town or determined to bus a teammate so either way I'm fine letting him do his thing D1.

Who's the teammate, out of curiosity? Oddmerta? Or BoKnows?

niccagehysteria.gif

[BoKnows]

Alison: LC or either town or mafia
LC: So I'm mafia...

What's the point of the above statement. Isn't everyone either town or mafia?

[Alison]

Anyway LC is either town or determined to bus a teammate so either way I'm fine letting him do his thing D1.

Who's the teammate, out of curiosity? Oddmerta? Or BoKnows?

I've made it clear that I have Oddmerta as top town so I'm mostly thinking if you're mafia you looked at me and Mac catching BK/Al and decided to bus. Speaking of which you should shift your vote.

Oh yeah tutuu also caught them. Credit where it's due.

[Long Con]

Alison: LC or either town or mafia
LC: So I'm mafia...

lol nah.

[MacDougall]

For what its worth I recognise your disgust with me misreading you as your town reaction.

"Disgust" is a pretty strong word. I'm thinking your past good reads of me might have just been lucky, and your luck has changed these days.

That seems needlessly harsh.

I thought disgust was a harsher reaction. How do you explain being good, and then suddenly not being good? I didn't change my play.

I haven't been towny very much lately without dying too soon for my opinions to have been anything more than my early game reaction testing.

Also I can't remember the last time I actually tried hard as town to read anyone. I'm not even trying hard here. I've probably read less than 20% of the total game.

I may be confusing early game reaction testing with actual solid reads.

A lot of people do that. I'm not saying I don't believe my early game reads but part of my playstyle, at least when I'm trying to win for town, is to make my reads with supreme confidence even when they are just gut or based on mildly over rand things. It's tactical. I built a playstyle that allows me to be wrong in a helpful way lol.

I know it sounds bs but its the truth.

[Long Con]

Anyway LC is either town or determined to bus a teammate so either way I'm fine letting him do his thing D1.

Who's the teammate, out of curiosity? Oddmerta? Or BoKnows?

niccagehysteria.gif

You're losing me.

[MacDougall]

Alison: LC or either town or mafia
LC: So I'm mafia...

What's the point of the above statement. Isn't everyone either town or mafia?

What man?

Alison made a LC is either town or mafia because read.

He immediately responded to her mafia read on him lol.

[Long Con]

Anyway LC is either town or determined to bus a teammate so either way I'm fine letting him do his thing D1.

Who's the teammate, out of curiosity? Oddmerta? Or BoKnows?

I've made it clear that I have Oddmerta as top town so I'm mostly thinking if you're mafia you looked at me and Mac catching BK/Al and decided to bus. Speaking of which you should shift your vote.

Ok I'll vote Bo again. [VOTE: BoKnows] aubergine

Anyway LC is either town or determined to bus a teammate so either way I'm fine letting him do his thing D1.

Who's the teammate, out of curiosity? Oddmerta? Or BoKnows?

I've made it clear that I have Oddmerta as top town so I'm mostly thinking if you're mafia you looked at me and Mac catching BK/Al and decided to bus. Speaking of which you should shift your vote.

Oh yeah tutuu also caught them. Credit where it's due.

I gave her credit!

[MacDougall]

I don't think it's like uber scummy it's just funny. It's like a little towny if anything. Mafia probably read Alison saying they're either town or mafia cuz and feel relieved rather than attacking her.

[BoKnows]

Alison: LC or either town or mafia
LC: So I'm mafia...

What's the point of the above statement. Isn't everyone either town or mafia?

What man?

Alison made a LC is either town or mafia because read.

He immediately responded to her mafia read on him lol.

But everyone is either town or mafia. Wtf is a town/mafia read? That sounds unbelievably redundant.

[MacDougall]

As I said i identify the LC that is town and acts harsh and ridicules people when they scumread them. He hasnt been like "fuck off you people are morons" level harsh but there is a sense of severe irritation that indicates that to me.

[Alison]

I said LC is either town or a bussing mafia.

[MacDougall]

Alison: LC or either town or mafia
LC: So I'm mafia...

What's the point of the above statement. Isn't everyone either town or mafia?

What man?

Alison made a LC is either town or mafia because read.

He immediately responded to her mafia read on him lol.

But everyone is either town or mafia. Wtf is a town/mafia read? That sounds unbelievably redundant.

You are making zero effort to actually attempt to understand are you lol.

[BoKnows]

I said LC is either town or a bussing mafia.

Ahhh I see. How did you get to this conclusion?

[Long Con]

I don't think it's like uber scummy it's just funny. It's like a little towny if anything. Mafia probably read Alison saying they're either town or mafia cuz and feel relieved rather than attacking her.

I don't think t was an attack, I just wanted to understand her better.

Alison: LC or either town or mafia
LC: So I'm mafia...

What's the point of the above statement. Isn't everyone either town or mafia?

What man?

Alison made a LC is either town or mafia because read.

He immediately responded to her mafia read on him lol.

But everyone is either town or mafia. Wtf is a town/mafia read? That sounds unbelievably redundant.

That's... not the right angle for understanding.

[BoKnows]

Alison: LC or either town or mafia
LC: So I'm mafia...

What's the point of the above statement. Isn't everyone either town or mafia?

What man?

Alison made a LC is either town or mafia because read.

He immediately responded to her mafia read on him lol.

But everyone is either town or mafia. Wtf is a town/mafia read? That sounds unbelievably redundant.

You are making zero effort to actually attempt to understand are you lol.

a little

[Long Con]

As I said i identify the LC that is town and acts harsh and ridicules people when they scumread them. He hasnt been like "fuck off you people are morons" level harsh but there is a sense of severe irritation that indicates that to me.

This is 100% wrong, Joe what are you doing?

[MacDougall]

Lol wait Bo just didn't bother reading the last few posts on the previous page but kept live engaging. That's a lil towny maybe.

[MacDougall]

As I said i identify the LC that is town and acts harsh and ridicules people when they scumread them. He hasnt been like "fuck off you people are morons" level harsh but there is a sense of severe irritation that indicates that to me.

This is 100% wrong, Joe what are you doing?

So you're mafia then?

[BoKnows]

Lol wait Bo just didn't bother reading the last few posts on the previous page but kept live engaging. That's a lil towny maybe.

I just read what's in front of me.

[Long Con]

As I said i identify the LC that is town and acts harsh and ridicules people when they scumread them. He hasnt been like "fuck off you people are morons" level harsh but there is a sense of severe irritation that indicates that to me.

This is 100% wrong, Joe what are you doing?

So you're mafia then?

I think I have gotten more irate at suspicion in the past when I've been mafia, not when I'm town, like you said.

Also, I am really not feeling any irritation at all in this game, and I don't know where you are reading that.

[BoKnows]

As I said i identify the LC that is town and acts harsh and ridicules people when they scumread them. He hasnt been like "fuck off you people are morons" level harsh but there is a sense of severe irritation that indicates that to me.

This is 100% wrong, Joe what are you doing?

So you're mafia then?

I just don't understand how you guys get to these conclusions. How does this tell you that LC is scum?

[MacDougall]

LC Im sorry if you disagree but the most recent scenario in which I was partly responsible for wrongly killing you when you were town you went down screeching and feelings hurting lol. That I can sense a similar thing in you here isn't actively for you to determine because I dont think its a conscious response.

[BoKnows]

nearly half my posts came from this game.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

In my experience, Long Con has displayed irritation when suspected either way, but the form of the irritation may be distinct. When he's mafia, the irritation is a more overt kind of rage, like someone railing against an offensive that truly threatens him. When's he's town, the irritation is a more sarcastic dismissal of everyone else, like they and the entire game of Mafia itself are all nonsense that should be treated like nonsense.

I don't know that I see much irritation at this point though.

[MacDougall]

Perhaps you are more consciously severe when mafia but I am feeling a similar type of response to suspicion from you here as I felt as we were killing you in the other game when you flipped town. It's very "vibes". It's entirely possibly just bullshit but its just my vibes.

[MacDougall]

In my experience, Long Con has displayed irritation when suspected either way, but the form of the irritation may be distinct. When he's mafia, the irritation is a more overt kind of rage, like someone railing against an offensive that truly threatens him. When's he's town, the irritation is a more sarcastic dismissal of everyone else, like they and the entire game of Mafia itself are all nonsense that should be treated like nonsense.

I don't know that I see much irritation at this point though.

Gosh you really summarised it nicely actually.

[Long Con]

LC Im sorry if you disagree but the most recent scenario in which I was partly responsible for wrongly killing you when you were town you went down screeching and feelings hurting lol. That I can sense a similar thing in you here isn't actively for you to determine because I dont think its a conscious response.

I know when I'm feeling upset, and it hasn't happened yet. But I haven't felt really threatened yet either, so no reason to.

[Long Con]

In my experience, Long Con has displayed irritation when suspected either way, but the form of the irritation may be distinct. When he's mafia, the irritation is a more overt kind of rage, like someone railing against an offensive that truly threatens him. When's he's town, the irritation is a more sarcastic dismissal of everyone else, like they and the entire game of Mafia itself are all nonsense that should be treated like nonsense.

I don't know that I see much irritation at this point though.

Gosh you really summarised it nicely actually.

LOL he really did.

[MacDougall]

In my experience, Long Con has displayed irritation when suspected either way, but the form of the irritation may be distinct. When he's mafia, the irritation is a more overt kind of rage, like someone railing against an offensive that truly threatens him. When's he's town, the irritation is a more sarcastic dismissal of everyone else, like they and the entire game of Mafia itself are all nonsense that should be treated like nonsense.

I don't know that I see much irritation at this point though.

Okay irritation being the wrong word but him railing against my skill and questioning why he ever respected me is aligned closer to how you describe his town version of irritation. That's the link.

[Long Con]

Bottom line is: LC is a big baby mostly.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

One thing that I thought ought to be stated with regard to AL_sama: a number of folks have noted that they produced a reads list "out of nowhere". I'm not sure that's really true, since I repeatedly poked them with requests for reads.

This doesn't mean they're town. I think they still took quite a long time to produce reads that are generally nondescript and safe, and I trust them no more than before as a result. But I like to be precise about my accusations.

[MacDougall]

LC Im sorry if you disagree but the most recent scenario in which I was partly responsible for wrongly killing you when you were town you went down screeching and feelings hurting lol. That I can sense a similar thing in you here isn't actively for you to determine because I dont think its a conscious response.

I know when I'm feeling upset, and it hasn't happened yet. But I haven't felt really threatened yet either, so no reason to.

Yeah I've not used the right words to describe it. Irritation may not be what you feel. But the mindset you are in to respond to me the way you did is aligned to how I've seen you respond to miselims imo.

[Long Con]

I'm not confident in scumreading a new player I have never seen before on Day 1, because I don't know how they usually are, and also the community thing.

[BoKnows]

One thing that I thought ought to be stated with regard to AL_sama: a number of folks have noted that they produced a reads list "out of nowhere". I'm not sure that's really true, since I repeatedly poked them with requests for reads.

This doesn't mean they're town. I think they still took quite a long time to produce reads that are generally nondescript and safe, and I trust them no more than before as a result. But I like to be precise about my accusations.

What are you thoughts on his reaction to the read list when Falcon added a little bit of pressure?

[Long Con]

LC Im sorry if you disagree but the most recent scenario in which I was partly responsible for wrongly killing you when you were town you went down screeching and feelings hurting lol. That I can sense a similar thing in you here isn't actively for you to determine because I dont think its a conscious response.

I know when I'm feeling upset, and it hasn't happened yet. But I haven't felt really threatened yet either, so no reason to.

Yeah I've not used the right words to describe it. Irritation may not be what you feel. But the mindset you are in to respond to me the way you did is aligned to how I've seen you respond to miselims imo.

Acceptable. Really, self-analysis isn't my strong suit, so I should trust others who know me.

[MacDougall]

Bottom line is: LC is a big baby mostly.

Lol no. You just are so frequently the centre of a push that benchmarks of your reactions are established. I assume that is simply because you've had the misfortune of randing mafia frequently enough for people to feel they have good meta on you so you get poked for reactions more than others which in the absence of alternatives is sometimes enough to lead to real threat. This perpetual cycle makes you a chew toy in mafia games.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

One thing that I thought ought to be stated with regard to AL_sama: a number of folks have noted that they produced a reads list "out of nowhere". I'm not sure that's really true, since I repeatedly poked them with requests for reads.

This doesn't mean they're town. I think they still took quite a long time to produce reads that are generally nondescript and safe, and I trust them no more than before as a result. But I like to be precise about my accusations.

What are you thoughts on his reaction to the read list when Falcon added a little bit of pressure?

Like someone timid in the face of a harsh assessment. I think someone (maybe you?) suggested it looked mafia/mafia -- I don't think I agree with that. If AL_sama is mafia, I think that looks like them shrinking visibly from the pressure presented by someone outside their comfort zone. AL's reaction doesn't have to be a mafia one. It doesn't tell me much in general about them on its own power. It at least fits within the broader image of what I think a mafia AL would be in this game.

[MacDougall]

And being a chew toy would be annoying for anyone.

[TonyStarkPrime]

Let's play a game:

Is this low-hanging fruit, or is this a justifiable suspect?

AL_sama
BoKnows
fingersplints
JPIC
KZA
Long Con
Marmot
tedxtr

I extract these specific names because they strike me as applicable to the question -- either facing generic suspicions or otherwise pretty blank slates.

Down the line:
1
2
Neither it’s a trick question
1 for some reason
2
Actually feeling 2 but idk why
1
1

Why is Al_sama town?

LHF \neq town

Okay.

Here's the thing.

You and I are completely polarised in our reads.

If yours are correct then that means substantial shit.

So I ask again how confident are these reads. Are you overpromoting them for a town benefit you can articulate? Because if you are town you are either supremely wrong for some reason or I am and if I am then I am heavily pocketed and promoting scum wincon right now and need to figure out if I am.

The problem is that the potential pocketeers are just so brutally obviously town to me. I just am going to find it so hard to see otherwise.

So the outlier is that not only am I wrong but Alison, Jay, Sloonei and other more consensus contributors are all wrong and you are right. There are no wolves that profile as wolves in that scenario that make sense.

The only possibility that makes any sense is you are just hyping your shit reads and know they are baseless but are pushing them anyway for some reason as town or mafia.

If town. Stop it lo.

I think we strongly disagree on two people max

[BoKnows]

One thing that I thought ought to be stated with regard to AL_sama: a number of folks have noted that they produced a reads list "out of nowhere". I'm not sure that's really true, since I repeatedly poked them with requests for reads.

This doesn't mean they're town. I think they still took quite a long time to produce reads that are generally nondescript and safe, and I trust them no more than before as a result. But I like to be precise about my accusations.

What are you thoughts on his reaction to the read list when Falcon added a little bit of pressure?

Like someone timid in the face of a harsh assessment. I think someone (maybe you?) suggested it looked mafia/mafia -- I don't think I agree with that. If AL_sama is mafia, I think that looks like them shrinking visibly from the pressure presented by someone outside their comfort zone. AL's reaction doesn't have to be a mafia one. It doesn't tell me much in general about them on its own power. It at least fits within the broader image of what I think a mafia AL would be in this game.

Tutuu said it looked like it was Al and I and w/w. Alison then broke it down, and I kinda understood it but not really. Kinda like if you read a scientific paper on blackholes you understand the words but it doesn't make sense to you. To me when his reaction of not being confident in his reads list just tells me that he slapped together a reads list just to gave one. That may not be the case if you asked him to make one.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

For what it's worth to Long Con: I think the frequency with which he receives suspicion is a product of two things above all else:

1) lower activity level -- it may be lame that this happens, but it's not surprising. When more and more players adopt a POE-styled approach, players who offer less material to interpret are going to be read with less confidence by default. It's inescapable. That's why some people seem to find themselves in POE pools every game. I'm sorry that happens, but I don't know what can be done about it on the part of the hunters.

2) Long Con has a way of inviting it as a self-fulfilling prophecy and causing snowball effects. I might as well not even try, because I'll just get read as mafia -- this is an anecdotal view based on some frustrating incidents where trying did result in suspicion. But in general, trying harder is going to result in greater trust. It's also inescapable.