The Syndicate

Turnip Head wrote:Someone is killing off experienced players.

You and llama?

boo wrote:

Turnip Head wrote:Someone is killing off experienced players.

You and llama?

Can you repeat the question?

Turnip Head wrote:

Zomberella12 wrote:

Turnip Head wrote:Someone is killing off experienced players.

I wish we knew if the Kira has to be on the site to send in a kill. If so, I'm looking at Zeek.

I don't think that is the case. If anything, I think this proves that Kira can send in his kills early, and they occur at predetermined times.

After I posted that I immediately regretted it. I think you are right. Sending it in ahead of time makes much more sense.

Turnip Head wrote:

boo wrote:

Turnip Head wrote:Someone is killing off experienced players.

You and llama?

Can you repeat the question?

murderer.

I resemble that remark!

Okay, Porcupine. Time to stop hiding and give us something to work with. What are you thinking?

This thread continues to balloon, and I'm surprised by the kill of SVS (RIPIYWG). But I'm not going to have time to catch up now or vote later due to school commitments, so I'll stick with my previous thoughts and *vote Snowman*.

Russt must have forgotten to vote earlier like he said he would. Odds he'll be back in time to avoid MP's wrath?

RIP S~V~S

Zomberella12 wrote:So by your own logic I can't be Kira because I'm not playing it safe. Also, you might have missed it, but I tore up my noob boob card. I can't play it. It's gone.

Not really, how would you say you're not playing it safe?

Zomberella12 wrote:I wish we knew if the Kira has to be on the site to send in a kill. If so, I'm looking at Zeek.

I wasn't even online but a lot of people were

Turnip Head wrote:Someone is killing off experienced players.

Agreed. They're killing off experience and unlikely to be lynched player IMO.

zeek wrote:RIP S~V~S

Zomberella12 wrote:So by your own logic I can't be Kira because I'm not playing it safe. Also, you might have missed it, but I tore up my noob boob card. I can't play it. It's gone.

Not really, how would you say you're not playing it safe?

Maybe explain to me what your version of playing it safe is.

Zomberella12 wrote:Maybe explain to me what your version of playing it safe is.

You first

You were online, Zomberella, have you heard the saying, "she whom smelt it, dealt it"? Pretty quick on the accusation there and to throw the accusation on somebody you've never suspected before? Weak. A weak NO U on the only person with a slight suspicion of you today

Honestly, I think it must be pretty easy for a baddie in a relationship with another player to accuse them of being bad. Makes things easier at home. but that is all WIFOM for sure. I think you've played it quite safe so far. You didn't start the case on Snowman, you just carried with it. You're not pissing people off and your back and forth is Snowman devolved into a series of memes. Not exactly putting the heat on. So, I do think you've played a pretty safe game.

I am shocked and saddened by SVS's death. RIP SVS. That really sucks.

I read Epi's novel, but do not really feel any wiser for it.

zeek wrote:You were online, Zomberella, have you heard the saying, "she whom smelt it, dealt it"? Pretty quick on the accusation there and to throw the accusation on somebody you've never suspected before? Weak. A weak NO U on the only person with a slight suspicion of you today

Honestly, I think it must be pretty easy for a baddie in a relationship with another player to accuse them of being bad. Makes things easier at home. but that is all WIFOM for sure. I think you've played it quite safe so far. You didn't start the case on Snowman, you just carried with it. You're not pissing people off and your back and forth is Snowman devolved into a series of memes. Not exactly putting the heat on. So, I do think you've played a pretty safe game.

The main reason players fly under the radar is because other players let them. Zomba should not be accused as such, but the rest of us should.

thellama73 wrote:I am shocked and saddened by SVS's death. RIP SVS. That really sucks.

I read Epi's novel, but do not really feel any wiser for it.

I'm glad I'm not the only one who read it then.

Where are you voting today llama?

Anyway, I'm voting now. I'll be reading for the next hour, so I'll pop back, but I'm so tired at the moment I doubt I'll be posting again this period.

It's a two horse race and I don't like voting players not in the race in situations like this. Gives an out in regard to future voting analysis. I don't think Epi is a Kira, but Snowman could be. So I'm voting Snowman.

linki I never said she was fly under the radar. What's your point, MM?

zeek wrote:

Zomberella12 wrote:Maybe explain to me what your version of playing it safe is.

You first

Okay. I'm not playing it safe. I'm going after a player who I think is bad. I'm pushing pretty hard and making tons of posts. I'm not playing it safe. There. Now you. How is that safe?

zeek wrote:Anyway, I'm voting now. I'll be reading for the next hour, so I'll pop back, but I'm so tired at the moment I doubt I'll be posting again this period.

It's a two horse race and I don't like voting players not in the race in situations like this. Gives an out in regard to future voting analysis. I don't think Epi is a Kira, but Snowman could be. So I'm voting Snowman.

linki I never said she was fly under the radar. What's your point, MM?

You're accusing her of 'playing it safe' right? I don't really understand why you think that.

See above. Safe play =/= flying under radar.

zeek wrote:See above. Safe play =/= flying under radar.

Fine. I misunderstood you.

Posting from train but definitely not staying till the end of the poll, so will vote after this post. Also, a reminder that very limited Mafia from me until Thursday.

I think Epig's humongous post wasn't in very good form and I'm starting to lose sense of what pleasure does he get from creating so much vexation.. But since his greatest motto is to focus on the Kiras, I don't think he is a Kira and I don't think he'd play so brazingly as to set himself on fire as a Kira. In fact, post-game chapeaus to any of the big players, if they played so openly confrontational as either Kira or L/Near.

Voting Snowman for reasons already stated.

MovingPictures07 wrote:
S~V~S: TURNIP HEAD IS KIRA!! HE'S THE ONE KILLING ME! AVENGE ME!!! PLEA---

???

still voting wrong.

boo wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:
S~V~S: TURNIP HEAD IS KIRA!! HE'S THE ONE KILLING ME! AVENGE ME!!! PLEA---

???

still voting wrong.

flavour

Oh damn! SVS! And that damn Kira made you cry that sonofabitch.

I think I've held my vote long enough for something to happen and nothing has (well, Epi's book but it didn't make me want to vote him). I'm going with Snowman today and as Zomba says at least I will know whether to trust her in the future. Snowman isn't helping his case though, I would have at least expected a short post before school asking us to hold our vote until he was finished for the day. Someone else just said they didn't think Epi was a kira because of his behavior but Snowman could be one and I agree with that thought. OK, off to vote.

FYI, unlike night periods, I would not be against ending a Day period early if every single player were to vote early, and it made sense from a scheduling perspective (not TOO early).

Addendum: Of course, no need to rush votes, and I'm entirely doubtful that would ever happen, but nonetheless that is my policy on the matter.

I'm going to be gone for the rest of the day, so I'm going to vote for Snowman , seeing as my opinion on him has not changed.

RIP SVS I really enjoyed playing with you. I have this little hope that you were fooling us and were bad, and Kira was fooled too, but I doubt that's the case.


If we think Epi can't be Kira because he's not playing a safe game, then I disagree. I can easily see how he started out playing a very safe game, and got dragged into a less safer game. if you think of what we expect from Epi, he can't lay low and not be himself. If a person doesn't act like we expect them to act, then they immediately get looked at (look at how people were suspicious of me because I wasn't aggressive as I'm allegedly supposed to be), so Epi had to at least try and be Epi. What does he do? Get into an argument with DH from the get go, yet says at that point that he doesn't necessarily believe he's bad. Then he picks Russ and goes after him while Russ appears to be unable to reply. Is that not safe? I don't know.

Even now he's made this huge (understatement of the year) post and he sums it up by saying he doesn't think DH is a detective. He doesn't say he thinks he's bad. But he was the one lecturing us about how the only people we're supposed to be concerned with are Kiras. So if you're not going to call him a Kira, what's the point of the big post?

RIP SVS.

WOW Epi! So that's what you were doing this morning.

Epignosis wrote:That's 21 anti-detective items, 23 attempts to dodge accountability, 22 dismissive gestures, and 48 inconsistencies. I do not believe DharmaHelper is a detective.

Am I being helpful now?

DharmaHelper wrote:I'm gonna catch up now, but from the looks of things Epi finally had a psychotic break?

Nah, just a snow day Tell him he ought to have been doing our taxes instead

I will go ahead and vote now, because I have to leave around 5 anyhow, and this way, I won't have to rush to get home.

Not voting Epi, I don't really know what to make of him. I will vote Snowman, because I still think that Zombarellas case is coming from an inexperienced place. Maybe I'm basing my decision on what I have done in the past, but when I went hard against someone with just a gut feeling during my first year of playing, I was right. It was unfortunate that I didn't realize I needed something more substantial in my posts, and asking ppl to just trust me was only making people upset with me. But I only did it when I was 100% sure, so I'm guessing Z is probably right.

Metalmarsh89 wrote:The majority of your points I do not agree with Epi. A few I do though, which I will address.

Epignosis wrote:

DharmaHelper wrote:Gonna take a page out of Epi's book *Warning: Big post*

Using the system we have now of 27 Players, and list randomizer from Random.org

L's list will have to have 13 People on it, as will Light's. Lets assume for the sake of argument, that L and Light both put themselves on their respective lists. Since all we know for sure is that Light has BTSC with Ryuk, lets assume he puts Ryuk on his list. I will use Blue for L and Red For Light:

Right now:

L's List:
L

Light/Kira's List:
Light
Ryuk

Completely Randomizing L's list, this is the first (Blind) option I got, after having put every role in a radomizer in the order they are on the front page:

Sidoh (Independant)
Takahashi (Mafia 2)
Penber (Civvie)
Mogi (Civvie)
Watari (Civie)
Higuchi (Mafia 2)
Matsuda (Civvie)
Ide (Civvie)
Demegawa (Mafia 1)
Mido (Mafia 2)
Misora (Civvie)
Mikami (Mafia 1)
L(Civvie)

So, completely randomly, L's list Includes:
Civilians (Including L) 8
Mafia 1 (Light's Team) 2
Mafia 2 (Yotsuba) 3

I want to stress that this is completely randomly, and does not take into account anything other than cold numbers.

Light's List:
Sidoh (Indie)
Mido (Mafia 2)
Matsuda (Civvie)
Light (Mafia 1)
Mikami (Mafia 1)
Ryuk (Mafia 1)
Yagami (Civvie)
Misora (Civvie)
Ooi (Mafia 2)
Near (Civvie)
Shimura (Mafia 2)
Takahashi (Mafia 2)

Lights list includes:
Civilians - 4
Mafia 1 - 3
Mafia 2 - 3
Indies - 1


The following appear on both lists and therefore have a buffed vote:
Sidoh (Independent)
Mido (Mafia 2)
Matsuda (Civ)
Mikami (Mafia 1)
Misora (Civ)
Takahashi (Mafia 2)

The following appear on neither list and therefore do not have a vote:
Aizawa (Civ)
Ukita (Civ)
Mello (Civ)
Namikawa (Mafia 2)
Kida (Mafia 2)
Amane (Mafia 1)
Rem (Mafia 1)
Takada (Mafia 1)

Total of:
Civilians - 3
Mafia 1 - 3
Mafia 2 - 2

Which means the votes that would count on this theoretical day:
Sidoh (Independant) - Buffed
Takahashi (Mafia 2) - 5 Buffed
Penber (Civvie) - Normal
Mogi (Civvie) - Normal
Watari (Civie)- Normal
Higuchi (Mafia 2) - Normal
Matsuda (Civvie) - Buffed
Ide (Civvie) - Normal
Demegawa (Mafia 1) - Normal
Mido (Mafia 2) - Buffed
Misora (Civvie) - Buffed
Mikami (Mafia 1) - Buffed
L(Civvie) - Normal
Light (Mafia 1) - Normal
Ryuk (Mafia 1) - Normal
Yagami (Civvie) - Normal
Ooi (Mafia 2) - Normal
Near (Civvie) - Normal
Shimura (Mafia 2) - Normal


For a Grand total of:
Civilian Votes: 9 total (2 Buffed 7 Normal)
Mafia 1 Votes: 4 total (1 Buffed 3 Normal)
Mafia 2 Votes: 5 total (1 Buffed 4 Normal)
Indie Votes: 1 total (1 Buffed)

19 of 27 players have a vote that is at least Normal. Rougly 70% of the active players. Of those, 47% are civ, 21% are on Lights team, and 26% are on the Yotsuba team. Civvies have the majority vote AND the majority of buffs. This is not as advantageous for Light as it initially seems.

Admittedly this is ONE scenario, and I'm sure there are variables I did not account for, but as you can hopefully see its not as one-sided as you'd think.

DharmaHelper wrote:EBWOP: *JUST* realized Mikami was the 13th pick on L's list, since L had to include himself, so take that into account. Sorry. :P

DharmaHelper wrote:

DharmaHelper wrote:EBWOP: *JUST* realized Mikami was the 13th pick on L's list, since L had to include himself, so take that into account. Sorry. :P

Meaning Lights list should have 13 not 12 (and Penber was the 13th Light pick)

So again, not as mafia-heavy as you'd think.

In contrast to my post, which came from a gamemaker's perspective, DharmaHelper opted to give ONE random example for the L / Light lynch option that was supposed to demonstrate that that option was good for civilians. It doesn't take a mathematician to note the flaws in this. I'm a gambler, so these flaws were apparent. One random example could show that I could make a fortune in a casino. However, that isn't sound long-range planning. Had DharmaHelper shown, say, 100 random examples, then a clearer picture could have been formed.

Actually, it did take a mathematician to note these flaws. I don't recall anyone else calling him out for this post aside from this person.

Epignosis wrote:

DharmaHelper wrote:AceofSpaces - Not seeing him as bad atm
Bass_the_Clever - Not willing to vote for him right now, but not willing to give him a pass overall.
bea - Nothing stands out
birdwithteeth11 - Nothing stands out
Black Rock - Nothing stands out
boo - Not seeing him as bad.
Boomslang - Commenting mostly on other suspicions/discussions...
DharmaHelper - Definitely civ.
DisgruntledPorcupine - Who?
Elohcin - Nothing pops out.
Epignosis - Slowly creeping up my list.
FZ. - No read.
juliets - No read.
Long Con - No Read.
Made - No Read.
Matahari - Very good at playing low key and clueless when the reality is the opposite.
Metalmarsh89 - No read.
Ricochet - Leaning civ
Roxy - No read.
Russtifinko - No write.
S~V~S - I don't know yet.
Snowman - No read
Spacedaisy - Leaning civ
thellama73 - Who?
triceratopzeuhl - Suspect.
Turnip Head -
Zomberella12 - Found some of her early posts suspect. Not willing to give her a pass for playing the "I'm new here" card.


Epi can you explain to me why your suspicion of Russ is 100% based on the lore of Death Note, and you were ready to lynch Rico for making lore-based assumptions regarding L/Watari?

This is hyperbole, one of DH's most relied upon tactics. I hope you recognize it. I was never "ready to lynch" Ricochet. I engaged him during Day 0 and found better suspects on Day 1. There is nothing wrong with that. Another Mafia tactic is making people feel like they have to vote the way they are leaning at one point even if new information comes to light. This is inconsistent because DharmaHelper has expressed more than one suspect.

Yes. Your calling of this list (and TH's lists) as distracting are something I can agree upon.

Epignosis wrote:Vote early and answer questions later.

DharmaHelper wrote:Does trice always change his avatar this frequently?

DharmaHelper wrote:

DharmaHelper wrote:Does trice always change his avatar this frequently?

DharmaHelper wrote:

DharmaHelper wrote:

DharmaHelper wrote:Does trice always change his avatar this frequently?

DharmaHelper wrote:

Metalmarsh89 wrote:

DharmaHelper wrote:

DharmaHelper wrote:

DharmaHelper wrote:Does trice always change his avatar this frequently?

What does this have to do with the game? Do baddies change avatars frequently?

X Kira must adhere to a strict, daily schedule.

DharmaHelper wrote:Well that's all I wanted to know.

DharmaHelper had already voted. Now he turns everyone's attention back to Trice, a detective (for a lore-based reason). If you can keep your man from getting lynched, then you can avoid accountability. I said this on Day 0.

Thank you for bringing this one up.

Epignosis wrote:

DharmaHelper wrote:

boo wrote:

Turnip Head wrote:I'm satisfied. What about you guys?

If it's such an obvious mechanic as Epi is making it sound like, when he's 7 episodes in, why did no one who has seen all of it not already mentioned it as a mechanic we should be worried about, and DH, who has seen it was still suspicious of Epi (at least before he gave the explanation). So either it's an elaborate set up by everyone who knows the theme to get Epi killed, or it's a minor thing and it's still weird Epi thinks it is so obvious it's a game mechanic and it's weird he just happened to bring it up before any non-baddie could know it was in the game with certainty.

In all fairness, I was aware of the Shinigami Eyes as they relate to the show and silently considered they could play a part in the game. I just felt like it would be more appropriate to wait until more information presented itself before I added my two cents.

If you are a detective with this knowledge, then why not come out with it sooner? Doesn't seem very civilian-friendly to me.

Covering his tracks.



Addendum. This read to me like the biggest no u I've ever seen. That is an overgeneralization, yes. You brought forth some good points (very good ones), but I found much of this case to be borderline insulting and exhaustively so. You nitpicked every single post DH has made from what I can see. Even anything productive DH had to offer produced a some backlash from you Epi. I will agree that DH has done much of the same throughout this game, so you aren't traveling a one-way street. I dunno how you can accuse him of being dismissive with a dismissive comment. But DH is guilty too. He gone poked the "Epi-bear" and here we are.

Another question. What are the odds, in your opinion, that DH is Kira?

1. I showed one of several (probably several thousand) options that were civ friendly. Of course, several thousand options are also mafia friendly. My point was to show that it could be done. Doesn't matter though.

2. I made that list once in order to show my thoughts on everyone. Sorry if that distracted you.

3. I thought it could be possible Trices avatar switching was Kira X related but clearly I was wrong.

4. Maybe I should have kept my mouth shut and not come to Epi's defense regarding the Eye deal. That would have been less suspicious and according to Epi, detective-like behavior. I didn't mention the Eye Deal simply because I had no idea if it was actually in the game, and I wanted to keep my thoughts about it to myself until necessary.

Hello friends! this game is very busy and intimidating. That said, i have nothing to do till lynch, so lezzgo. Stand by.

Metalmarsh89 wrote: Where are you voting today llama?

Snowman. In fact, I'm doing it now.

*votes Snowman*

Then there is Snowman who has played the epitome of playing safe until he was accused by his own wife. All his replies are jokey, which is something that seems to give off the impression of "I'm not that bothered". We often think that defensiveness means someone is a baddie, but I think more often civvies get more defensive when accused over and over again, while baddies try to keep calm, like they have nothing to hide.


I'm going to sum up some measures people used for suspecting them and see which one was higher on that measure and then try to some it up.

Playing it safe: Snowman
Defensiveness: By my book, Epi is more defensive therefore seems more genuine
Helpful: Epi. At least to some extent he advanced discussion and mechanics of the game and at the beginning actually looked at players. Sadly, I don't think he's been helpful in a long time. And I agree, that "case" on


I guess if I don't have more measures, I'll be going with Snowman

Oops, somehow my sentence was cut in the middle. I agree that the case on DH is not helpful at all

Turnip Head wrote:

Epignosis wrote:Perhaps it is the novelty of having a game with more posts than Dr. Who, but I wonder why TH and MM continue to post and post and post and post even after they have voted. Is it an effort to make it difficult for detectives to read and catch up?

I believe this post is Hypocritical Hot Pink

I said all of that in eight posts. I tried to get it in one post, but received an error message: "Your message contains 204818 characters. The maximum number of allowed characters is 60000."

I think it says a lot about my character that I will spend 9 hours doing something most people will probably ignore. This is why I will never be rich.

Metalmarsh89 wrote:Just finished reading volume 1. Question for you Epi. At this point in the game, do you think that Light/Kira has a better feel for who his sympathizers are than L does for who any detectives are? Do you think your answer could have been anticipated on Day 1?

I'm not sure what you're asking. Which point in the game- Day 0 (which is what the quote I cut out was reference) or right now? And my answer regarding what?

zeek wrote:Woah I agree Epi's conclusion came first, but I can understand that because he probably set out to prove a point. DH has been one of his biggest critics. That said, I'm still on the fence with Epi. He's made some good points but it can also be read as the largest NO U in Mafia history. I'm glad he's playing ball a bit more though, even if he's not properly defending himself.

I don't know where it vote today. I'm curious about Zomberella and she could get my vote. Snowman and TH are also up there, with MM in the mix as well.

linki - DH, that's quite dismissive

zeek, I stopped caring about "NO U" around my third game. It's a logically impaired approach, one I'm surprised still maintains currency. Think about it: If you have two players, one good (G) and one bad (B), and B makes a case against G, but G fires back with a case of his own, people cry "NO U" and lynch G. It's even worse if you have an aggressive Mafia.

When DH framed his suspicion of me such that I would be bad no matter what I did (on Day 1 no less), that in itself was what made me start suspecting that he was bad. Now then, how do I voice that without getting shouted down? Simple: I just do it and don't worry what anybody will say. I do not fear the NO U.

And if you don't believe that DH has painted a "damned if I do, damned if I don't" picture, his reaction to my latest post demonstrates it. If I "don't," it's "come on son" and "get over it" and "you're a sad puppy." If I "do," it's "childish" and a "bullshit tantrum."

FZ. wrote:Epig, I actually read 90% of this. Sadly, I agreed with almost nothing. Maybe it's me, but I don't go and read all the details of the roles, but it doesn't make me a baddie, so I disagree with that. I can agree that he wasn't been too nice, but I can see his point when he's saying that he hoped that if you were a civ, it would make you wake up and do what needs to be done. I'm really trying to view this with an open mind.

I do want to ask you, you say you don't think he's a detective, but you keep saying that non Kiras are sort of potential civvies as well, so would you want to lynch him?

I didn't say that not reading the roles makes someone bad- I said that not reading the roles while pushing for a dangerous Day 0 option is anti-detective.

Given the unusual setup, FZ., I have had to take a different approach (mentally, not in the thread) in how to determine who is bad. I won't go into details, but it has been an interesting change of pace. For example, we're up against what is not traditionally a team, but a quartet of serial killers. That drives things hard into luck territory. There are a few people in this who have serial killer tells. However, I have not seen any of those.

For another example, unlike a typical Mafia with maybe a couple of secrets, this is rife with them, and these secrets are being leaked. One thing I've thought of is this: Now that we know a vote cast by a Kira victim will count that Day, what is to be made of the early voters?

Just something to think about. In regards to your question, I don't know. While I do not believe he is a detective, I also do not believe he is Yotsuba. At the same time, I don't believe he is doing the killing. However, there is value in lynching the "supporting cast" if only to remove their vote from the pool and remove their power from play. I would have no qualms lynching DharmaHelper.

I get that, Epi. It's still prevalent in Mafia, however. I don't necessarily believe it was a NO U, I'm just saying it can be read that way. However, unless you believe DH is a Kira, surely your post was in vain?

zeek wrote:I get that, Epi. It's still prevalent in Mafia, however. I don't necessarily believe it was a NO U, I'm just saying it can be read that way. However, unless you believe DH is a Kira, surely your post was in vain?

I was...



bored.

If that's true... well, damn... you're my hero

And if you don't believe that DH has painted a "damned if I do, damned if I don't" picture, his reaction to my latest post demonstrates it. If I "don't," it's "come on son" and "get over it" and "you're a sad puppy." If I "do," it's "childish" and a "bullshit tantrum."

I dont want to play this game anymore.

Epignosis wrote:

FZ. wrote:Epig, I actually read 90% of this. Sadly, I agreed with almost nothing. Maybe it's me, but I don't go and read all the details of the roles, but it doesn't make me a baddie, so I disagree with that. I can agree that he wasn't been too nice, but I can see his point when he's saying that he hoped that if you were a civ, it would make you wake up and do what needs to be done. I'm really trying to view this with an open mind.

I do want to ask you, you say you don't think he's a detective, but you keep saying that non Kiras are sort of potential civvies as well, so would you want to lynch him?

I didn't say that not reading the roles makes someone bad- I said that not reading the roles while pushing for a dangerous Day 0 option is anti-detective.

Given the unusual setup, FZ., I have had to take a different approach (mentally, not in the thread) in how to determine who is bad. I won't go into details, but it has been an interesting change of pace. For example, we're up against what is not traditionally a team, but a quartet of serial killers. That drives things hard into luck territory. There are a few people in this who have serial killer tells. However, I have not seen any of those.

For another example, unlike a typical Mafia with maybe a couple of secrets, this is rife with them, and these secrets are being leaked. One thing I've thought of is this: Now that we know a vote cast by a Kira victim will count that Day, what is to be made of the early voters?

Just something to think about. In regards to your question, I don't know. While I do not believe he is a detective, I also do not believe he is Yotsuba. At the same time, I don't believe he is doing the killing. However, there is value in lynching the "supporting cast" if only to remove their vote from the pool and remove their power from play. I would have no qualms lynching DharmaHelper.

I have actually been thinking about the SK thing myself, and was wondering whether the Kiras themselves actually care if all the rest die or not. Maybe in order to survive until the end, it's better for them to just help lynch the other Kiras and look better to all the rest. If that's the case, maybe we should actually be looking at the most aggressive or "case makers" (not including me :P ). I'm just not sure what is the best way to approach this game


linki: I have to side with DH on this, Epi. I don't think he's done anything that is out of the realm of a normal mafia game, and I feel like you're making it personal

FZ. wrote:

Epignosis wrote:

FZ. wrote:Epig, I actually read 90% of this. Sadly, I agreed with almost nothing. Maybe it's me, but I don't go and read all the details of the roles, but it doesn't make me a baddie, so I disagree with that. I can agree that he wasn't been too nice, but I can see his point when he's saying that he hoped that if you were a civ, it would make you wake up and do what needs to be done. I'm really trying to view this with an open mind.

I do want to ask you, you say you don't think he's a detective, but you keep saying that non Kiras are sort of potential civvies as well, so would you want to lynch him?

I didn't say that not reading the roles makes someone bad- I said that not reading the roles while pushing for a dangerous Day 0 option is anti-detective.

Given the unusual setup, FZ., I have had to take a different approach (mentally, not in the thread) in how to determine who is bad. I won't go into details, but it has been an interesting change of pace. For example, we're up against what is not traditionally a team, but a quartet of serial killers. That drives things hard into luck territory. There are a few people in this who have serial killer tells. However, I have not seen any of those.

For another example, unlike a typical Mafia with maybe a couple of secrets, this is rife with them, and these secrets are being leaked. One thing I've thought of is this: Now that we know a vote cast by a Kira victim will count that Day, what is to be made of the early voters?

Just something to think about. In regards to your question, I don't know. While I do not believe he is a detective, I also do not believe he is Yotsuba. At the same time, I don't believe he is doing the killing. However, there is value in lynching the "supporting cast" if only to remove their vote from the pool and remove their power from play. I would have no qualms lynching DharmaHelper.

I have actually been thinking about the SK thing myself, and was wondering whether the Kiras themselves actually care if all the rest die or not. Maybe in order to survive until the end, it's better for them to just help lynch the other Kiras and look better to all the rest. If that's the case, maybe we should actually be looking at the most aggressive or "case makers" (not including me :P ). I'm just not sure what is the best way to approach this game


linki: I have to side with DH on this, Epi. I don't think he's done anything that is out of the realm of a normal mafia game, and I feel like you're making it personal

I meant that literally. If MP wasn't my Funny or Die blood brother, and I hadn't had my reputation of rarely subbing out of games, and I didn't like Death Note as much, I'd be gone by now. Call it what you want considering my thoughts when Epi was all "fuck this noise", but I honestly can't take it. Misery loves company, eh?

I just won £1100 on a bet. I'm out, bitches. Night

I just don't understand how you can go from this:

DharmaHelper wrote:

Epignosis wrote:

DharmaHelper wrote:You know what, fuck it. I'm gonna vote Epi now. He is either a baddie pulling this stunt, or he is somehow not a baddie, but completely disinterested in making any kind of sense. Dead weight either way. Voting now :P

Yes. I am disinterested. I've done what I could, but all it turns into is "stuff to use against Epi later." I am voting Snowman and will allow the rest of the voters to decide if they want me around or not. I'm tired.

zeek wrote:Very convincing case, MM, I hadn't put together all those inconsistencies from Epi. Although I'm not sure on you, your points are persuasive. I may vote Epi if he convince me otherwise.

I really don't know what to make of all the strange behaviour in this game tbh, feels like it's going to be quite a random game.

Go for it zeek. I didn't even read MM's case on me and don't plan to post any manner of defense. I'm the easy choice today and I'm okay with that. If you're a detective though, lynching me won't help you.

If you're ready to quit at Day 3 then I am ready to help you.

To this:

DharmaHelper wrote:

And if you don't believe that DH has painted a "damned if I do, damned if I don't" picture, his reaction to my latest post demonstrates it. If I "don't," it's "come on son" and "get over it" and "you're a sad puppy." If I "do," it's "childish" and a "bullshit tantrum."

I dont want to play this game anymore.

I'll leave you alone if you want though. I don't want to upset you.

Epignosis wrote:I just don't understand how you can go from this:

DharmaHelper wrote:

Epignosis wrote:

DharmaHelper wrote:You know what, fuck it. I'm gonna vote Epi now. He is either a baddie pulling this stunt, or he is somehow not a baddie, but completely disinterested in making any kind of sense. Dead weight either way. Voting now :P

Yes. I am disinterested. I've done what I could, but all it turns into is "stuff to use against Epi later." I am voting Snowman and will allow the rest of the voters to decide if they want me around or not. I'm tired.

zeek wrote:Very convincing case, MM, I hadn't put together all those inconsistencies from Epi. Although I'm not sure on you, your points are persuasive. I may vote Epi if he convince me otherwise.

I really don't know what to make of all the strange behaviour in this game tbh, feels like it's going to be quite a random game.

Go for it zeek. I didn't even read MM's case on me and don't plan to post any manner of defense. I'm the easy choice today and I'm okay with that. If you're a detective though, lynching me won't help you.

If you're ready to quit at Day 3 then I am ready to help you.

To this:

DharmaHelper wrote:

And if you don't believe that DH has painted a "damned if I do, damned if I don't" picture, his reaction to my latest post demonstrates it. If I "don't," it's "come on son" and "get over it" and "you're a sad puppy." If I "do," it's "childish" and a "bullshit tantrum."

I dont want to play this game anymore.

I'll leave you alone if you want though. I don't want to upset you.

It would definitely take a lot to go from one extreme to another, I agree. At least 240,000 characters.

DharmaHelper wrote:

FZ. wrote:

Epignosis wrote:

FZ. wrote:Epig, I actually read 90% of this. Sadly, I agreed with almost nothing. Maybe it's me, but I don't go and read all the details of the roles, but it doesn't make me a baddie, so I disagree with that. I can agree that he wasn't been too nice, but I can see his point when he's saying that he hoped that if you were a civ, it would make you wake up and do what needs to be done. I'm really trying to view this with an open mind.

I do want to ask you, you say you don't think he's a detective, but you keep saying that non Kiras are sort of potential civvies as well, so would you want to lynch him?

I didn't say that not reading the roles makes someone bad- I said that not reading the roles while pushing for a dangerous Day 0 option is anti-detective.

Given the unusual setup, FZ., I have had to take a different approach (mentally, not in the thread) in how to determine who is bad. I won't go into details, but it has been an interesting change of pace. For example, we're up against what is not traditionally a team, but a quartet of serial killers. That drives things hard into luck territory. There are a few people in this who have serial killer tells. However, I have not seen any of those.

For another example, unlike a typical Mafia with maybe a couple of secrets, this is rife with them, and these secrets are being leaked. One thing I've thought of is this: Now that we know a vote cast by a Kira victim will count that Day, what is to be made of the early voters?

Just something to think about. In regards to your question, I don't know. While I do not believe he is a detective, I also do not believe he is Yotsuba. At the same time, I don't believe he is doing the killing. However, there is value in lynching the "supporting cast" if only to remove their vote from the pool and remove their power from play. I would have no qualms lynching DharmaHelper.

I have actually been thinking about the SK thing myself, and was wondering whether the Kiras themselves actually care if all the rest die or not. Maybe in order to survive until the end, it's better for them to just help lynch the other Kiras and look better to all the rest. If that's the case, maybe we should actually be looking at the most aggressive or "case makers" (not including me :P ). I'm just not sure what is the best way to approach this game


linki: I have to side with DH on this, Epi. I don't think he's done anything that is out of the realm of a normal mafia game, and I feel like you're making it personal

I meant that literally. If MP wasn't my Funny or Die blood brother, and I hadn't had my reputation of rarely subbing out of games, and I didn't like Death Note as much, I'd be gone by now. Call it what you want considering my thoughts when Epi was all "fuck this noise", but I honestly can't take it. Misery loves company, eh?

I'm sorry you feel this way. For what it's worth, I like having you here and I think you're playing mafia like you should. I think Epi is just really frustrated (no matter the alignment), and I have no idea what yours is, but I don't think it should become personal, no matter what.

Voted snowman.might get stuck at work longer and don't want to run the risk of missing the vote.

I think everybody just needs to take a deep breath.

204k not 240k.