The Syndicate

Ever since I noticed the "limited role claiming" thing I've been waiting for someone to do it defensively.

Convenient claim, but considering my logistical issues with a scumteam cancelling the lynch, it kind of makes sense to me. The big question mark would be why you didn't claim yesterday; even acknowledging that you were busy and needed to leave, the poll was rapidly winding down to a 1-on-1. While it would mean scum would hesitate to target you thereafter, you'd still remain a townie thorn in their side as long as you lived.

Yeah I didn't think I was allowed to outright tell people I'm immune to lynches. Otherwise I probably would have.

Question to Syndicaters: is it normal for a seemer role to change both alignment and role? E.g. could someone be out there with a "JaggedJimmyJay. Towniest town. Immune to a single death of any kind" write-up?

I'm going to switch to Tranq temporarily until I sort things out and know where to go next. If JJJ is lying, it will come to bite him eventually. If there are multiple anti-town factions out there, no matter his alignment he should eventually come under fire. I think staying on him would be a waste of a lynch.

HamburgerBoy wrote:Question to Syndicaters: is it normal for a seemer role to change both alignment and role? E.g. could someone be out there with a "JaggedJimmyJay. Towniest town. Immune to a single death of any kind" write-up?

I'm going to switch to Tranq temporarily until I sort things out and know where to go next. If JJJ is lying, it will come to bite him eventually. If there are multiple anti-town factions out there, no matter his alignment he should eventually come under fire. I think staying on him would be a waste of a lynch.

The one time I can recall being a seemer I was able to fake everything.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Turnip Head wrote:I'll refer you to two relevant rules:

S~V~S wrote:*No reproducing or paraphrasing host PMs, or direct discussing of night results or of if you were targeted or with what.
*This game is closed set up. This allows for limited role claiming. But be careful about that, and do NOT involve other people in your claim.

We're not going to stop anyone from saying "I have a civ role", and we're not going to stop anyone from saying "My role was civ in another game", either.

Oh hey, I can claim my role.

I was immune to my first death, lynch or night kill. I tried to evade the lynch because stopping a night kill is much more productive. I knew if this happened I'd just get lynched again and here we are. Oh well, ship's sailed. I also thought talking about this would be taboo before, I'm not used to having this freedom here.

Now stop theorizing about crazy things. There's your answer.

I don't believe you. A civvie doesn't role out that kind of power, especially at this time of day.

Also, a seemer is usually required to declare a target at a specific time, right? That way, if anyone knocks off Jimmy on a random night, there will be a higher chance the flip was genuine.

DharmaHelper wrote:I don't believe you. A civvie doesn't role out that kind of power, especially at this time of day.

You don't seem to know much about what civvies do.

DharmaHelper wrote:I don't believe you. A civvie doesn't role out that kind of power, especially at this time of day.

But his role is useless now, right? As he wrote it, the power has already been consumed. If he's telling the truth as a civvie, there's no reason for him not to out it.

HamburgerBoy wrote:Also, a seemer is usually required to declare a target at a specific time, right? That way, if anyone knocks off Jimmy on a random night, there will be a higher chance the flip was genuine.

I don't remember if Long Con let me pick my role ahead of time, but I wouldn't put that out of the realm of possibility for TH/SVS to do.

HamburgerBoy wrote:

DharmaHelper wrote:I don't believe you. A civvie doesn't role out that kind of power, especially at this time of day.

But his role is useless now, right? As he wrote it, the power has already been consumed. If he's telling the truth as a civvie, there's no reason for him not to out it.

No. A civvie does not want to appear vulnerable to the mafia if he can avoid it. Surviving a lynch is a show of strength. Revealing the reasoning behind it is like a magician that shows you how to do all his tricks. JJJ basically killed himself if he's telling the truth. Ergo, he's not.

lol as if I'm not actively trying to get lynched right now

My continued survival is the worst thing for town at this point. Y'all will never shut the hell up about it.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:lol as if I'm not actively trying to get lynched right now

My continued survival is the worst thing for town at this point. Y'all will never shut the hell up about it.

This is a weird post tbh. People were on and off about you during Talking Heads for most of the game, and I remember even saying in the chatroom that even if you were town, it looked like you were fighting too hard for your survival when your death come lylo seemed imminent, and that it was only hurting the other hapless townies being sacrificed. In the end it obviously paid off cuz you and Rico stayed thoroughly analytical and your Blind thing put a coin flip in town's favor, so why are you saying this now?

DharmaHelper wrote:

HamburgerBoy wrote:Question to Syndicaters: is it normal for a seemer role to change both alignment and role? E.g. could someone be out there with a "JaggedJimmyJay. Towniest town. Immune to a single death of any kind" write-up?

I'm going to switch to Tranq temporarily until I sort things out and know where to go next. If JJJ is lying, it will come to bite him eventually. If there are multiple anti-town factions out there, no matter his alignment he should eventually come under fire. I think staying on him would be a waste of a lynch.

The one time I can recall being a seemer I was able to fake everything.

I had just joined Syndicate and had begun my papryquest to win Film Directors and once in a while I'd take a look at what's going on during the '14 Champies' endgame and was like wtf to whatever you were doing and how mad the others were.

The only time I was a seemer, I pulled off a perfect survival whilst in the frying pan (hunted all Day long, no votes on me at the end ), after a second tracker in the game accidentally interpreted my flip as bad voodoo. I couldn't do anything, though, after the real player I "seemed" flipped and my game was toast.

HamburgerBoy wrote:so why are you saying this now?

Whatever it takes to make people stop calling me suspicious and talking about the suspicious things I'm doing and the case to be made against JJJ and what happens if JJJ is bad and who tried to save baddie JJJ and have you heard JJJ likes pancakes it's all a huge waste of time. All of it.

Just stop already, all of you. Okay great, I'm suspicious. Lynch me. That's the solution.

In the mean time, use your time wisely for the love of God. There are like 20-25 people that need your attention. I have received enough of it. This is not productive ever.

Ricochet wrote:

DharmaHelper wrote:

HamburgerBoy wrote:Question to Syndicaters: is it normal for a seemer role to change both alignment and role? E.g. could someone be out there with a "JaggedJimmyJay. Towniest town. Immune to a single death of any kind" write-up?

I'm going to switch to Tranq temporarily until I sort things out and know where to go next. If JJJ is lying, it will come to bite him eventually. If there are multiple anti-town factions out there, no matter his alignment he should eventually come under fire. I think staying on him would be a waste of a lynch.

The one time I can recall being a seemer I was able to fake everything.

I had just joined Syndicate and had begun my papryquest to win Film Directors and once in a while I'd take a look at what's going on during the '14 Champies' endgame and was like wtf to whatever you were doing and how mad the others were.

The only time I was a seemer, I pulled off a perfect survival whilst in the frying pan (hunted all Day long, no votes on me at the end ), after a second tracker in the game accidentally interpreted my flip as bad voodoo. I couldn't do anything, though, after the real player I "seemed" flipped and my game was toast.

Then again, it seemed I referenced the wrong game in which you were seemr.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

HamburgerBoy wrote:so why are you saying this now?

Whatever it takes to make people stop calling me suspicious and talking about the suspicious things I'm doing and the case to be made against JJJ and what happens if JJJ is bad and who tried to save baddie JJJ and have you heard JJJ likes pancakes it's all a huge waste of time. All of it.

Just stop already, all of you. Okay great, I'm suspicious. Lynch me. That's the solution.

In the mean time, use your time wisely for the love of God. There are like 20-25 people that need your attention. I have received enough of it. This is not productive ever.

Don't look at me, But here I am making ten million posts about why you shouldn't look at me

Wait, what if LoRab is a seemer, because of all the "seem" wording Epig picked up on?

Question to any non-JJJ player

Did anyone receive so far strange, coded, spooky, spaghetti, etc. stuff, messages, info or such during a Night phase? Mind you, it could have come via the Hosts, but it was something delivered by a player, so you should normally be able to hint at that.

pls answr

Ricochet wrote:Wait, what if LoRab is a seemer, because of all the "seem" wording Epig picked up on?

I don't think that roleclaiming a Seemer is a usual thing to do.

Ricochet wrote:Question to any non-JJJ player

Did anyone receive so far strange, coded, spooky, spaghetti, etc. stuff, messages, info or such during a Night phase? Mind you, it could have come via the Hosts, but it was something delivered by a player, so you should normally be able to hint at that.

pls answr

I have received nothing.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Turnip Head wrote:I'll refer you to two relevant rules:

S~V~S wrote:*No reproducing or paraphrasing host PMs, or direct discussing of night results or of if you were targeted or with what.
*This game is closed set up. This allows for limited role claiming. But be careful about that, and do NOT involve other people in your claim.

We're not going to stop anyone from saying "I have a civ role", and we're not going to stop anyone from saying "My role was civ in another game", either.

Oh hey, I can claim my role.

I was immune to my first death, lynch or night kill. I tried to evade the lynch because stopping a night kill is much more productive. I knew if this happened I'd just get lynched again and here we are. Oh well, ship's sailed. I also thought talking about this would be taboo before, I'm not used to having this freedom here.

Now stop theorizing about crazy things. There's your answer.

Ha, so you are claiming Duncan Idaho then?

If I am right and the role remains in tact that means you will have a kill shot to use now.

Also yes I am genuine in my suspicions of you. Maybe I haven't learned my lessons or maybe this is different. Those two quotes of mine (the tree one and this one) both came in games I was/am a civ.

Also in tree, you left a much greater lasting legacy on the day you got lynched. You did a G2H on every player, gave three names you wouldn't lynch, left a long ISO of MP (who was bad) and spread your analysis out. Here you were focused on an insular 1v1 until such times as you weren't and then you made an ISO of Boomslang and left. Would you be suspicious of you if you were me?

Linki: I'll also note that the day after I was lynched with Jimmy defending me in TH (as scum) and he was adamant he'd be lynched he went pedal to the metal on scum hunting, ISO'd just about everyone and all around bossed the game and didn't end up getting lynched and town ended up winning. As DH just touched on he's only replicating that in words. He's not doing the same thing.

Ricochet wrote:Question to any non-JJJ player

Did anyone receive so far strange, coded, spooky, spaghetti, etc. stuff, messages, info or such during a Night phase? Mind you, it could have come via the Hosts, but it was something delivered by a player, so you should normally be able to hint at that.

pls answr

I've received nothing.

FYI HB you literally let him buddy you into changing your vote. Kudos for being such a pussy.

Running my daughter's birthday party today and after that will be sleeping off the hangover caused by two dozen screaming 5 year olds so bye.

Ricochet wrote:Question to any non-JJJ player

Did anyone receive so far strange, coded, spooky, spaghetti, etc. stuff, messages, info or such during a Night phase? Mind you, it could have come via the Hosts, but it was something delivered by a player, so you should normally be able to hint at that.

pls answr

I'll refer you two two relevant rules:

S~V~S wrote:*No reproducing or paraphrasing host PMs, or direct discussing of night results or of if you were targeted or with what.
*No info dumping~ which means no night results, no info gleaned via BTS, etc.

Don't make me start sending spooky spaghetti messages out myself

Ech. Ok then.

I'll go back and look over 2015 roles that had a one-time immunity, in case it's a role in which this part hasn't been modified. If it was, then .

It wasn't just Duncan Idaho, Mac.

My role was originally town and is town again.

Pure-blood town?

I dunno what that means.

Town-sided role sharing town's basic win con and nothing else.

DharmaHelper wrote:FWIW If the FZ train starts selling tickets put me down for a first class car.

Don't put the cart before the horse.

Ricochet wrote:Any non-long-con player, your thoughts on what LC inquired.

I'm leaning civ ATM.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

DharmaHelper wrote:Except that's not at all what occured. You were likely to be lynched. Not two people, just you buddy. FZ actively participated in saving you by bussing onto someone she FULL ADMITTED she thought was being genuine. Civs do not bus other civs to save other civs. The math on that does not compute any way you try to spin it.

Except I absolutely do that all the time. So you're full of shit.

Not all civ reads are the same. Some are stronger.

You wouldn't choose someone else in that scenario? Like someone who you don't think is civ?

Ricochet wrote:Town-sided role sharing town's basic win con and nothing else.

I guess so. I don't know what you're describing if that's not every town role.

Dom wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

DharmaHelper wrote:Except that's not at all what occured. You were likely to be lynched. Not two people, just you buddy. FZ actively participated in saving you by bussing onto someone she FULL ADMITTED she thought was being genuine. Civs do not bus other civs to save other civs. The math on that does not compute any way you try to spin it.

Except I absolutely do that all the time. So you're full of shit.

Not all civ reads are the same. Some are stronger.

You wouldn't choose someone else in that scenario? Like someone who you don't think is civ?

If it's late in the phase and only two people have enough votes to be realistic final choices, I will usually pick one of them -- even if I read both as civilians. I think it's usually pointless to defiantly vote for one's own pet suspect when that vote has no chance of amounting to an actual lynch. Townies need to have accountability and responsibility for moving the game as a team.

Dom wrote:

Ricochet wrote:Any non-long-con player, your thoughts on what LC inquired.

I'm leaning civ ATM.

I ask about what LC inquired, you tell me what you think of LC himself.

Ok.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Ricochet wrote:Town-sided role sharing town's basic win con and nothing else.

I guess so. I don't know what you're describing if that's not every town role.

Some town roles can be divergent.

Civs are not a team, they are a faction. As a civ, I don't know if I'm joining civ, mafia or indy in performing an action (such as a lynch). As such, I cannot call it a team.

Mafia are a team, because they are exactly aware who they are, what they are doing and how they position themselves throughout the game.

Ricochet wrote:Civs are not a team, they are a faction. As a civ, I don't know if I'm joining civ, mafia or indy in performing an action (such as a lynch). As such, I cannot call it a team.

Mafia are a team, because they are exactly aware who they are, what they are doing and how they position themselves throughout the game.

We disagree in the strongest possible way on this. So be it.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Ricochet wrote:Civs are not a team, they are a faction. As a civ, I don't know if I'm joining civ, mafia or indy in performing an action (such as a lynch). As such, I cannot call it a team.

Mafia are a team, because they are exactly aware who they are, what they are doing and how they position themselves throughout the game.

We disagree in the strongest possible way on this. So be it.

Oldest argument in Mafia

DharmaHelper wrote:Are you fucking kidding me right now.

This post from DH pings me a bit. For context, it was posted right after JJ was allowed to role claim and did so. To me it reads like DH had built his case counting on the fact that JJ wouldn't be able to be too specific about his role, and the hosts ruling threw a monkey wrench in his plans. Almost this exact thing has has happened to me before when I was bad: an unexpected host decision exposing the flimsy nature of my case. It's a small thing, but it caught my eye.

thellama73 wrote:

DharmaHelper wrote:Are you fucking kidding me right now.

This post from DH pings me a bit. For context, it was posted right after JJ was allowed to role claim and did so. To me it reads like DH had built his case counting on the fact that JJ wouldn't be able to be too specific about his role, and the hosts ruling threw a monkey wrench in his plans. Almost this exact thing has has happened to me before when I was bad: an unexpected host decision exposing the flimsy nature of my case. It's a small thing, but it caught my eye.

I just don't like role claims. Legitimate or not.

thellama73 wrote:

DharmaHelper wrote:Are you fucking kidding me right now.

This post from DH pings me a bit. For context, it was posted right after JJ was allowed to role claim and did so. To me it reads like DH had built his case counting on the fact that JJ wouldn't be able to be too specific about his role, and the hosts ruling threw a monkey wrench in his plans. Almost this exact thing has has happened to me before when I was bad: an unexpected host decision exposing the flimsy nature of my case. It's a small thing, but it caught my eye.

How is a host decision/ruling that has been written in the beginning of this game "unexpected"? JJJ asking for it is not the same thing with JJJ not being allowed until the time of asking to do it.

"asking for it" sounds spooky, uhm "JJJ asking whether he's allowed"*

Ricochet wrote:"asking for it" sounds spooky, uhm "JJJ asking whether he's allowed"*

Look at his slutty avatar. He was asking for it.

MacDougall wrote:FYI HB you literally let him buddy you into changing your vote. Kudos for being such a pussy.

Since when does roleclaim = buddying? What's the advantage to lynching him now even if he is scum? Can you agree that it seems like a waste for his own team to have saved him from death, if his claim is fake?

HamburgerBoy wrote:

MacDougall wrote:FYI HB you literally let him buddy you into changing your vote. Kudos for being such a pussy.

Since when does roleclaim = buddying? What's the advantage to lynching him now even if he is scum? Can you agree that it seems like a waste for his own team to have saved him from death, if his claim is fake?

Come again?

I bought a vacuum cleaner today and I'm pretty sure I just broke it.

Also, I was part of mafia manipulating the lynch to save a teamie twice, which we did to save us a Day, so... nope.

...of course, it pays off much more when you actually have a Night phase afterwards, not like right now.

Ricochet wrote:

HamburgerBoy wrote:

MacDougall wrote:FYI HB you literally let him buddy you into changing your vote. Kudos for being such a pussy.

Since when does roleclaim = buddying? What's the advantage to lynching him now even if he is scum? Can you agree that it seems like a waste for his own team to have saved him from death, if his claim is fake?

Come again?

If Jimmy is scum, it seems like there are two scum teams at play, one of them containing the person that cursed Draconus and Boomslang. They will be just as compelled as we are to kill Jimmy. Even if it doesn't happen right away, it presumably has to happen for that other team to win eventually.

HamburgerBoy wrote:

MacDougall wrote:FYI HB you literally let him buddy you into changing your vote. Kudos for being such a pussy.

Since when does roleclaim = buddying? What's the advantage to lynching him now even if he is scum? Can you agree that it seems like a waste for his own team to have saved him from death, if his claim is fake?

The buddying was the part where he civ read you despite you "scum" reading him. Followed by your apparent scum read of him resulting in you now moving your vote.

Did you really just ask what the advantage was to lynching him now even if he is scum? Lynching a scum would result in the lynch of a scum.

Also Jimmy's claim means his role passively caused the failed lynch, not anything his team did. There was no way to stop it. So whatever you're getting at is irrelevant.