The Syndicate

Sloonei wrote:

Long Con wrote:Looking back, I noticed this post from you, Sloon:

Sloonei wrote:A note: When I've caught Scotty as scum before, it's been for contradictions and inconsistencies in his behavior. I don't typically view him doing weird things with his vote and playing loose as bad things. That is just Scotty being Scotty.

Would you classify Scotty's stump/target-proving claim as contradictory or inconsistent? Why or why not?

I don't think that I would describe it in those terms. It's shady on some level, but I think he's been consistent with the claim at least. His failure to deliver on verification opens the whole thing up to skepticism. I'm not willing to dismiss him as a suspect for claiming a role that he can't or won't prove, but he's not doing anything contradictory.

juliets wrote:

Golden wrote: <snip>

2) Jay, it's true I didn't have much of a progression in marmot. One thing you left out is the first reads post (where I had him as town) was so early that I didn't even have a read on nutella yet. I liked his map cover and the way he handled himself around it. I didn't like much else thereafter. I referenced Dune which was a game where he lacked in any real content. That's exactly what he felt like here.

On the day he was lynched, I had to be absent and had very little time to contribute, so it is an accurate observation to say I didn't push my marmot suspicion much but I didn't really push any much (even inh, who I voted for). I wish I could say who I would have voted for or what I might have contributed if I was around, but I can't. I think it would probably have been marmot, but perhaps my participation in the thread would have seen inh lynched and delayed the marmot vote. Who knows.

Golden, on the subject of your progression, you indicate you didn't have much of a read on nutella when you did your first reads on Marmot. I took this to mean once you got a civ read on nutella it influenced your thoughts on marmot because she came out against him. I checked her posts and your posts though and you changed your read on marmot before nutella came out against him. Maybe I am misunderstanding what you are saying about the relationship between the two in your mind. Could you clarify?

Soneji wrote:[VOTE: ] aubergine[VOTE:

Out of all the people I've had some suspicion on today, this one is the strongest. I had some doubts about culture clash but the more I see from Silver Lantern and JoH, the less his posts are excusable. They both have been in the thick of things, not using their unfamiliarity with the posters/style here to excuse their activity/opinions. posted his opinion on the Dys situation to then turn around and say his opinion should be ignored in favor of others. He posted that seeming scummy is a town method of surviving longer where he is from, which I can't see much of a town motivation for posting here. He at that point could tell that is not the standard here nor was there any suspicion on him at the time, so mentioning it could only ever serve as a preliminary defense for any future scum behavior from him or SL/JoH's. Preemptive defenses are near the top of my scumtell list.

Could still be culture clash but I'm betting my money that it is attempting to abuse culture clash to gain an edge.] aubergine

Long Con wrote:

Strawhenge wrote:<snip>

4. After some folks explain why INH's worries were valid, he says that the Dys slip is much more 'juicy'. Possible attempt to redirect conversation. In the same post he says the INH vote was just a pressure-vote. I'm struggling to see why a pressure-vote was needed there.
Again, as I talked about much earlier, I used the term "pressure-vote" to explain the way I was voting him - to indicate a mild suspicion.

<snip>

6. All in one post: snarks at INH, throws shade at Jay for laying off of Golden, asks Dys if we should move on from being suspicious of Dys. That Dys item hurts my brain. LC must be pretty confident that Dys is town if he's asking DYS if we should stop grilling them about it.
Not sure about the first two, but the Dys question was to determine if Dys planned to "do" anything more with his fakeslip. It wasn't about confidence in his town-ness, it was about getting him to reveal if he was done with it, or if he was going anywhere with it. Not going anywhere with it was suspicious in my eyes. Best way to find out is to ask.

<snip>

9. Asks the map-holders if we should trust them. Map-holder or not, a map-claimer is going to say yes to that question.
I don't believe that's what I asked. I asked if the map holders believed that they could promote a Civ victory with the map information they had, not if I could trust them. I wanted to know if they were holding a map and saying "I don't know what the hell I'm looking at here" or if there was some clear info that they could use.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote:I want Golden's night results.

Claiming watcher puts a target on your back. Doing so without bringing forward good information is unnecessary.

I can understand some hesitancy to reveal night information due to the possibility of outing say, the doctor, but I think that ship has sailed.

We already ran into trouble with Golden misinterpreting his information (thinking Marmot had busdriver JJJ and Fred). I wouldn't be surprised (assuming Golden is town) if there was a useful gem of information for the town in those results.

Sloonei wrote:

Soneji wrote:[VOTE: ] aubergine[VOTE:

Out of all the people I've had some suspicion on today, this one is the strongest. I had some doubts about culture clash but the more I see from Silver Lantern and JoH, the less his posts are excusable. They both have been in the thick of things, not using their unfamiliarity with the posters/style here to excuse their activity/opinions. posted his opinion on the Dys situation to then turn around and say his opinion should be ignored in favor of others. He posted that seeming scummy is a town method of surviving longer where he is from, which I can't see much of a town motivation for posting here. He at that point could tell that is not the standard here nor was there any suspicion on him at the time, so mentioning it could only ever serve as a preliminary defense for any future scum behavior from him or SL/JoH's. Preemptive defenses are near the top of my scumtell list.

Could still be culture clash but I'm betting my money that it is attempting to abuse culture clash to gain an edge.] aubergine

[VOTE: This is an intriguing post in the universe where Soneji and Fredwood are scum together.] aubergine

Golden wrote:What 'useful gem of information' do you think is in there? Because I can only think of one, and that is knowing who I've targeted, and I think that's of more use to scum than town.

Golden wrote:

Jackofhearts2005 wrote:I want Golden's night results.

Claiming watcher puts a target on your back. Doing so without bringing forward good information is unnecessary.

I can understand some hesitancy to reveal night information due to the possibility of outing say, the doctor, but I think that ship has sailed.

We already ran into trouble with Golden misinterpreting his information (thinking Marmot had busdriver JJJ and Fred). I wouldn't be surprised (assuming Golden is town) if there was a useful gem of information for the town in those results.

Bullshit. We didn't run into any trouble with me misinterpreting information. I made the claim specifically because I was trying to draw out whether or not jay was bad (I mean, it followed from my claim that I was misdirected). Then I gave accurate information that I did not misinterpret.

I have been very clear that I saw no one but me in my watching results the last two nights. What 'useful gem of information' do you think is in there? Because I can only think of one, and that is knowing who I've targeted, and I think that's of more use to scum than town.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Golden wrote:What 'useful gem of information' do you think is in there? Because I can only think of one, and that is knowing who I've targeted, and I think that's of more use to scum than town.

The believability of your claim does hinge on those targets largely, because the last two night kills have been pretty obvious targets -- the sorts of targets often watched by watchers.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Sloonei wrote:

Soneji wrote:[VOTE: ] aubergine[VOTE:

Out of all the people I've had some suspicion on today, this one is the strongest. I had some doubts about culture clash but the more I see from Silver Lantern and JoH, the less his posts are excusable. They both have been in the thick of things, not using their unfamiliarity with the posters/style here to excuse their activity/opinions. posted his opinion on the Dys situation to then turn around and say his opinion should be ignored in favor of others. He posted that seeming scummy is a town method of surviving longer where he is from, which I can't see much of a town motivation for posting here. He at that point could tell that is not the standard here nor was there any suspicion on him at the time, so mentioning it could only ever serve as a preliminary defense for any future scum behavior from him or SL/JoH's. Preemptive defenses are near the top of my scumtell list.

Could still be culture clash but I'm betting my money that it is attempting to abuse culture clash to gain an edge.] aubergine

[VOTE: This is an intriguing post in the universe where Soneji and Fredwood are scum together.] aubergine

[VOTE:

I think it looks like Soneji trying to smear a guy for reasons that are unfair -- reading Fredwood as scum because he isn't behaving the same way as JOH or SL isn't about "culture clash" unless you expect everyone from a given culture to be clones.] aubergine

Sloonei wrote:Why is Soneji your top POE suspect?

juliets wrote:
Fred - 3 - I read his posts and it seemed he mentioned Jack was probably bad a lot yet doesn't rate Jack in his top two. I thought this was odd. Fred, have you been burned badly by Jack in the past? It feels like you think you have to keep mentioning him as bad.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:The tree stump role is stunted in that it's benefits are realized at the expense of a civilian vote. That's a big loss when you're talking about the numbers game and town's ability to control a lynch (typically tied directly into the win condition for the mafia). For numbers purposes, Scotty is effectively dead if the activates that role.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:unless you expect everyone from a given culture to be clones.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Sloonei wrote:Why is Soneji your top POE suspect?

I could come up with something to say in defense of every player except for him. I have no idea what he's done in this game that should indicate him to be a civilian.

Fredwood wrote:I don't think I have been specifically burned by him, the only time I actually remember being burned by a player was Adamical. I may have been in games where he did burn someone, but I was probably dead by then. If I make it to the end game I have a high win percentage, so It's not that, but in general I've found that my best approach with Jack is to be careful unless given a reason to put him strongly into one category (Town) or the other (scum).

What makes me think he's a suspect is that he keeps misrepresenting my posts, which makes me distrust his other posts regarding others. Additionally, part of the read is based of process of elimination. He keeps harping on that I proffered a theory about strong players wanting to discredit each other early in the game, when 3 strong players were each fighting each other simultaneously. I thought it was an interesting interaction and pointed it out. He then twists it and then uses it as the only proof he really has that he thinks I am bad. The rest of his stuff isn't committal, or just not accurate, and he keeps changing those non-committal reads without any follow up even though I address what he accused me of and he doesn't respond. Up until today I really didn't have a ton of strong thoughts one way or the other and felt there was a slight scum tinge to his game along with a few other people and a number of actual targets. I don't know where people are saying I rank him 3rd among my targets, I might put him in the bottom 3 now but I haven't really done a read list yet.

It feels like today specifically that he wants me to lynching him or Quin, when I think that argument has been exhausted to that point, and I still don't really trust either of them, apparently this train is going to a hospital. And as such am unsure who to go after...I will admit that I am non-commital on that specific argument, because today has been a massive clusterfuck.

Sloonei wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Sloonei wrote:Why is Soneji your top POE suspect?

I could come up with something to say in defense of every player except for him. I have no idea what he's done in this game that should indicate him to be a civilian.

Has he done anything (beyond the one point you just mentioned) that indicates he is scum?

Strawhenge wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:unless you expect everyone from a given culture to be clones.

Aren't we though? Balls to the wall, 'my night role involves choosing a townie to die', etc.?

Strawhenge wrote:

Long Con wrote:

Strawhenge wrote:<snip>

4. After some folks explain why INH's worries were valid, he says that the Dys slip is much more 'juicy'. Possible attempt to redirect conversation. In the same post he says the INH vote was just a pressure-vote. I'm struggling to see why a pressure-vote was needed there.
Again, as I talked about much earlier, I used the term "pressure-vote" to explain the way I was voting him - to indicate a mild suspicion.

<snip>

6. All in one post: snarks at INH, throws shade at Jay for laying off of Golden, asks Dys if we should move on from being suspicious of Dys. That Dys item hurts my brain. LC must be pretty confident that Dys is town if he's asking DYS if we should stop grilling them about it.
Not sure about the first two, but the Dys question was to determine if Dys planned to "do" anything more with his fakeslip. It wasn't about confidence in his town-ness, it was about getting him to reveal if he was done with it, or if he was going anywhere with it. Not going anywhere with it was suspicious in my eyes. Best way to find out is to ask.

<snip>

9. Asks the map-holders if we should trust them. Map-holder or not, a map-claimer is going to say yes to that question.
I don't believe that's what I asked. I asked if the map holders believed that they could promote a Civ victory with the map information they had, not if I could trust them. I wanted to know if they were holding a map and saying "I don't know what the hell I'm looking at here" or if there was some clear info that they could use.

4. Your answer about INH is fine, but I'm still stuck on Dizzy's thing being more juicy than more rational (though, now, incorrect) suspicions. Here's a huge reveal: I didn't really believe Dizzy truly fakeslipped. I pressed that obviously ridiculous reasoning to see who would jump on that bandwagon. I'm not very good at gambits like that, because nobody truly took that bait. You didn't take my bait either, but you still called the fake slip debacle juicy as if to draw more attention to it. What say you to that?
"As if to draw more attention to it"... loaded language. I wasn't trying to draw undue attention. It was juicy. I thought it was juicy. Didn't you? I mean... it's designed to be juicy. If it wasn't juicy, it wouldn't get attention. It got my attention, mucho juice.

6. Again on the Dizzy thing, you say here that asking Dizzy if we should leave it alone or not was a prompt for Dizzy to 'do' something with it. That makes no sense. If you're suspicious of someone, like you claimed to be, a) they don't get to tell you when the questioning is done, and b) what the hell else was Dizzy going to do to sway opinion at that point?
The fakeslip was Dizzy's baby. She planned it, she planted it, and I expected her to tend to it and reap the bounty of the results. Instead, she seemed to plant it and walk away. This defied my expectations of such a gambit, but I didn't want to default to feeling suspicious if she wasn't done with it. So I asked if she was done with it. I deny your "that makes no sense".

9. [facepalm] Asking the map holders if they could lead us to victory is tantamount to asking if we can trust them.
We can trust the mapholder to be Civ without them thinking they can decipher the map in such a way that promotes Civ victory. It's two different things.

Fredwood wrote:

juliets wrote:
Fred - 3 - I read his posts and it seemed he mentioned Jack was probably bad a lot yet doesn't rate Jack in his top two. I thought this was odd. Fred, have you been burned badly by Jack in the past? It feels like you think you have to keep mentioning him as bad.

I don't think I have been specifically burned by him, the only time I actually remember being burned by a player was Adamical. I may have been in games where he did burn someone, but I was probably dead by then. If I make it to the end game I have a high win percentage, so It's not that, but in general I've found that my best approach with Jack is to be careful unless given a reason to put him strongly into one category (Town) or the other (scum).

What makes me think he's a suspect is that he keeps misrepresenting my posts, which makes me distrust his other posts regarding others. Additionally, part of the read is based of process of elimination. He keeps harping on that I proffered a theory about strong players wanting to discredit each other early in the game, when 3 strong players were each fighting each other simultaneously. I thought it was an interesting interaction and pointed it out. He then twists it and then uses it as the only proof he really has that he thinks I am bad. The rest of his stuff isn't committal, or just not accurate, and he keeps changing those non-committal reads without any follow up even though I address what he accused me of and he doesn't respond. Up until today I really didn't have a ton of strong thoughts one way or the other and felt there was a slight scum tinge to his game along with a few other people and a number of actual targets. I don't know where people are saying I rank him 3rd among my targets, I might put him in the bottom 3 now but I haven't really done a read list yet.

It feels like today specifically that he wants me to lynching him or Quin, when I think that argument has been exhausted to that point, and I still don't really trust either of them, apparently this train is going to a hospital. And as such am unsure who to go after...I will admit that I am non-commital on that specific argument, because today has been a massive clusterfuck.

Fredwood wrote:

juliets wrote:
Fred - 3 - I read his posts and it seemed he mentioned Jack was probably bad a lot yet doesn't rate Jack in his top two. I thought this was odd. Fred, have you been burned badly by Jack in the past? It feels like you think you have to keep mentioning him as bad.

I don't think I have been specifically burned by him, the only time I actually remember being burned by a player was Adamical. I may have been in games where he did burn someone, but I was probably dead by then. If I make it to the end game I have a high win percentage, so It's not that, but in general I've found that my best approach with Jack is to be careful unless given a reason to put him strongly into one category (Town) or the other (scum).

What makes me think he's a suspect is that he keeps misrepresenting my posts, which makes me distrust his other posts regarding others. Additionally, part of the read is based of process of elimination. He keeps harping on that I proffered a theory about strong players wanting to discredit each other early in the game, when 3 strong players were each fighting each other simultaneously. I thought it was an interesting interaction and pointed it out. He then twists it and then uses it as the only proof he really has that he thinks I am bad. The rest of his stuff isn't committal, or just not accurate, and he keeps changing those non-committal reads without any follow up even though I address what he accused me of and he doesn't respond. Up until today I really didn't have a ton of strong thoughts one way or the other and felt there was a slight scum tinge to his game along with a few other people and a number of actual targets. I don't know where people are saying I rank him 3rd among my targets, I might put him in the bottom 3 now but I haven't really done a read list yet.

It feels like today specifically that he wants me to lynching him or Quin, when I think that argument has been exhausted to that point, and I still don't really trust either of them, apparently this train is going to a hospital. And as such am unsure who to go after...I will admit that I am non-commital on that specific argument, because today has been a massive clusterfuck.

Long Con wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:The tree stump role is stunted in that it's benefits are realized at the expense of a civilian vote. That's a big loss when you're talking about the numbers game and town's ability to control a lynch (typically tied directly into the win condition for the mafia). For numbers purposes, Scotty is effectively dead if the activates that role.

I'm still not understanding Stump. Could you maybe give me an example of what my role card would look like if I received "Stump"?

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:I don't know exactly what Scotty's claim entails, but this is the stump I know:

"At any point in the game [or during any night phase] you may elect to become a stump. You will be immune to kills and all other night actions. You cannot be lynched. You may not vote."

Basically it makes the player mechanically useless, but gives their voice immortality. Think of Ricochet in the 2015 GOC; similar deal.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Golden wrote:What 'useful gem of information' do you think is in there? Because I can only think of one, and that is knowing who I've targeted, and I think that's of more use to scum than town.

The believability of your claim does hinge on those targets largely, because the last two night kills have been pretty obvious targets -- the sorts of targets often watched by watchers.

Perhaps instead of revealing the targets immediately, you could start by revealing why you didn't watch Silver Lantern or nutella.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Long Con wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:The tree stump role is stunted in that it's benefits are realized at the expense of a civilian vote. That's a big loss when you're talking about the numbers game and town's ability to control a lynch (typically tied directly into the win condition for the mafia). For numbers purposes, Scotty is effectively dead if the activates that role.

I'm still not understanding Stump. Could you maybe give me an example of what my role card would look like if I received "Stump"?

I don't know exactly what Scotty's claim entails, but this is the stump I know:

"At any point in the game [or during any night phase] you may elect to become a stump. You will be immune to kills and all other night actions. You cannot be lynched. You may not vote."

Basically it makes the player mechanically useless, but gives their voice immortality. Think of Ricochet in the 2015 GOC; similar deal.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Long Con wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:The tree stump role is stunted in that it's benefits are realized at the expense of a civilian vote. That's a big loss when you're talking about the numbers game and town's ability to control a lynch (typically tied directly into the win condition for the mafia). For numbers purposes, Scotty is effectively dead if the activates that role.

I'm still not understanding Stump. Could you maybe give me an example of what my role card would look like if I received "Stump"?

I don't know exactly what Scotty's claim entails, but this is the stump I know:

"At any point in the game [or during any night phase] you may elect to become a stump. You will be immune to kills and all other night actions. You cannot be lynched. You may not vote."

Basically it makes the player mechanically useless, but gives their voice immortality. Think of Ricochet in the 2015 GOC; similar deal.

Long Con wrote:

Strawhenge wrote:

Long Con wrote:

Strawhenge wrote:<snip>

4. After some folks explain why INH's worries were valid, he says that the Dys slip is much more 'juicy'. Possible attempt to redirect conversation. In the same post he says the INH vote was just a pressure-vote. I'm struggling to see why a pressure-vote was needed there.
Again, as I talked about much earlier, I used the term "pressure-vote" to explain the way I was voting him - to indicate a mild suspicion.

<snip>

6. All in one post: snarks at INH, throws shade at Jay for laying off of Golden, asks Dys if we should move on from being suspicious of Dys. That Dys item hurts my brain. LC must be pretty confident that Dys is town if he's asking DYS if we should stop grilling them about it.
Not sure about the first two, but the Dys question was to determine if Dys planned to "do" anything more with his fakeslip. It wasn't about confidence in his town-ness, it was about getting him to reveal if he was done with it, or if he was going anywhere with it. Not going anywhere with it was suspicious in my eyes. Best way to find out is to ask.

<snip>

9. Asks the map-holders if we should trust them. Map-holder or not, a map-claimer is going to say yes to that question.
I don't believe that's what I asked. I asked if the map holders believed that they could promote a Civ victory with the map information they had, not if I could trust them. I wanted to know if they were holding a map and saying "I don't know what the hell I'm looking at here" or if there was some clear info that they could use.

4. Your answer about INH is fine, but I'm still stuck on Dizzy's thing being more juicy than more rational (though, now, incorrect) suspicions. Here's a huge reveal: I didn't really believe Dizzy truly fakeslipped. I pressed that obviously ridiculous reasoning to see who would jump on that bandwagon. I'm not very good at gambits like that, because nobody truly took that bait. You didn't take my bait either, but you still called the fake slip debacle juicy as if to draw more attention to it. What say you to that?
"As if to draw more attention to it"... loaded language. I wasn't trying to draw undue attention. It was juicy. I thought it was juicy. Didn't you? I mean... it's designed to be juicy. If it wasn't juicy, it wouldn't get attention. It got my attention, mucho juice.

6. Again on the Dizzy thing, you say here that asking Dizzy if we should leave it alone or not was a prompt for Dizzy to 'do' something with it. That makes no sense. If you're suspicious of someone, like you claimed to be, a) they don't get to tell you when the questioning is done, and b) what the hell else was Dizzy going to do to sway opinion at that point?
The fakeslip was Dizzy's baby. She planned it, she planted it, and I expected her to tend to it and reap the bounty of the results. Instead, she seemed to plant it and walk away. This defied my expectations of such a gambit, but I didn't want to default to feeling suspicious if she wasn't done with it. So I asked if she was done with it. I deny your "that makes no sense".

9. [facepalm] Asking the map holders if they could lead us to victory is tantamount to asking if we can trust them.
We can trust the mapholder to be Civ without them thinking they can decipher the map in such a way that promotes Civ victory. It's two different things.

Strawhenge wrote:Another subject: Golden has a crapload of material to read through, and I've not the requisite time to comb through it for an ISO. My guilt over having little time for this game is raging like some inflamed pustule. He remains in my 'vaguely suspicious' category. I'll do my ultimate damnedest to stay abreast of current goings on.

Long Con wrote:EBWOP: I mean Sloonei. Damn name similarities.

juliets wrote:Fred, when you come on today and after you catch up would you give a set of reads please?

Also guys, just trying to put the pieces together, is a stump someone who doesn't talk or vote? And does it make sense that you would "activate" your stumpiness? I'm just totally unfamiliar with a role like this.

I can't help with the balance issues, I generally don't host and when I do, have help with balance.

Golden wrote:Even at the time, as the actual map holder, it was clear to me lc was not asking if he could trust me but rather if the map was useful, which is why my response to him was what it was.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:As the day wears on I am find myself returning/regressing to my suspicion of JOH too. If I were to make a bulleted list of scummy things said/done by every player, his list would be the longest.

Long Con wrote:To the three Map-Holders: Do you think you should be followed? Do you feel like you can look at the map and further a Civ win with your choices?

Just curious because my choice (East) was mostly random.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:As the day wears on I am find myself returning/regressing to my suspicion of JOH too. If I were to make a bulleted list of scummy things said/done by every player, his list would be the longest.

juliets wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:As the day wears on I am find myself returning/regressing to my suspicion of JOH too. If I were to make a bulleted list of scummy things said/done by every player, his list would be the longest.

Do you feel like only one of JOH or Quin is bad?

linki

juliets wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:As the day wears on I am find myself returning/regressing to my suspicion of JOH too. If I were to make a bulleted list of scummy things said/done by every player, his list would be the longest.

Do you feel like only one of JOH or Quin is bad?

linki

Strawhenge wrote:I've been meaning to ask, but refresh me on the meaning of POE.

Strawhenge wrote:I've been meaning to ask, but refresh me on the meaning of POE.

Sloonei wrote:

Golden wrote:

Jackofhearts2005 wrote:I want Golden's night results.

Claiming watcher puts a target on your back. Doing so without bringing forward good information is unnecessary.

I can understand some hesitancy to reveal night information due to the possibility of outing say, the doctor, but I think that ship has sailed.

We already ran into trouble with Golden misinterpreting his information (thinking Marmot had busdriver JJJ and Fred). I wouldn't be surprised (assuming Golden is town) if there was a useful gem of information for the town in those results.

Bullshit. We didn't run into any trouble with me misinterpreting information. I made the claim specifically because I was trying to draw out whether or not jay was bad (I mean, it followed from my claim that I was misdirected). Then I gave accurate information that I did not misinterpret.

I have been very clear that I saw no one but me in my watching results the last two nights. What 'useful gem of information' do you think is in there? Because I can only think of one, and that is knowing who I've targeted, and I think that's of more use to scum than town.

Why are you alive? Why did you not watch the publicly exposed vigilante and cop the last two nights?