The Syndicate

Posted: **Mon Sep 20, 2021 10:15 am**

NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Mon Sep 20, 2021 9:32 am
Johanna wrote: ↑Mon Sep 20, 2021 9:28 am It's so quiet today.
There's nothing to discuss aside from the election, but y'all aren't Canadian.

There was recently the election here too. So much voting.

Posted: **Mon Sep 20, 2021 10:16 am**

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon Sep 20, 2021 9:43 am We might consider timing a hammer such that EOD is timed better. If I’d known it would change the game schedule I might not have done it when I did last time.

Last hammer was better for me lol. =p

Couple of hours before normal EoD time would be great. But I think we have people in all kinds of time zones here.

Posted: **Mon Sep 20, 2021 10:20 am**

What are you talking about, this EoD is GREAT!

Although I'm actually attending a social event tomorrow at about that time so...

Spoiler: show

Posted: **Mon Sep 20, 2021 10:31 am**

NotAnAxehole wrote: ↑Mon Sep 20, 2021 9:54 am
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon Sep 20, 2021 9:43 am We might consider timing a hammer such that EOD is timed better. If I’d known it would change the game schedule I might not have done it when I did last time.
Are you the god of hammers?

Yes

Posted: **Mon Sep 20, 2021 10:32 am**

If this is better then sure okay

Posted: **Mon Sep 20, 2021 10:57 am**

Where we at on ilario @Dyslexicon?

Posted: **Mon Sep 20, 2021 10:57 am**

Seems all the suspects have vanished except for G-Man.

Posted: **Mon Sep 20, 2021 11:02 am**

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon Sep 20, 2021 10:57 am Where we at on ilario @Dyslexicon?

I still think he's town. I don't want everything to have been a lie.

Posted: **Mon Sep 20, 2021 11:02 am**

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon Sep 20, 2021 10:57 am Seems all the suspects have vanished except for G-Man.

This is definitely a thing though.

Posted: **Mon Sep 20, 2021 11:03 am**

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Mon Sep 20, 2021 11:02 am
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon Sep 20, 2021 10:57 am Where we at on ilario @Dyslexicon?
I still think he's town. I don't want everything to have been a lie.

Would you agree he's kinda been pulling a Son of Anarch the last two days?

Posted: **Mon Sep 20, 2021 11:04 am**

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon Sep 20, 2021 11:03 amWould you agree he's kinda been pulling a Son of Anarch the last two days?

If I think about it, yes.

Posted: **Mon Sep 20, 2021 11:07 am**

If we accept "vanished from the game" as valid evidence (I do), then the most typical POE pool is sustained: [Dolby, ilario, falcon, G-Man]. G-Man hasn't vanished, but I haven't quite been able to find town in his posts the way I have Johanna's. I can find angles and agendas in his posts without needing to squint.

Posted: **Mon Sep 20, 2021 11:08 am**

I asked you to make room in your triad. I really don't want Ilario to be scum here though. I felt so lock on him when I "found" him.

Posted: **Mon Sep 20, 2021 11:09 am**

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Mon Sep 20, 2021 11:04 am
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon Sep 20, 2021 11:03 amWould you agree he's kinda been pulling a Son of Anarch the last two days?
If I think about it, yes.

One thing that could perhaps help you sort this would be to examine SoA and ilario each specifically for how they treated each other relative to how they treated you. You formed the second triad, and there might be visible evidence in their words that you were the unfortunate civilian to be stuck under their shadows. I don't actually know; I haven't looked for this exact thing.

Posted: **Mon Sep 20, 2021 11:10 am**

But why vanish from the game. It's so weird. Granted I don't think I've seen w!Dolby in forever, it just doesn't seem like him.

I don't know the others. I'm going to hate it if Sort By PostCount delivers victory unto us.

Posted: **Mon Sep 20, 2021 11:11 am**

Johanna wrote: ↑Mon Sep 20, 2021 11:10 am But why vanish from the game. It's so weird. Granted I don't think I've seen w!Dolby in forever, it just doesn't seem like him.

I don't know the others. I'm going to hate it if Sort By PostCount delivers victory unto us.

I'm sure it's not a strategy. If the mafia are in that group, then their morale is spent. Even when their team wasn't perfectly solved, we were very close -- and now we're on it (if that's the team). It can be difficult to will oneself into a game thread under those conditions, when not only are you caught, but so are your mates.

Posted: **Mon Sep 20, 2021 11:11 am**

As I think I expressed several times during previous days, I thought there was a strong possibility of partnered wolves in one of the triads.

Ilario would fit there, although I haven't really gone back to reassess their ISO.

Posted: **Mon Sep 20, 2021 11:12 am**

By the way, G-Man: regardless of your alignment I appreciate your efforts the last few days. It does honor to the game.

Posted: **Mon Sep 20, 2021 11:13 am**

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon Sep 20, 2021 11:09 amOne thing that could perhaps help you sort this would be to examine SoA and ilario each specifically for how they treated each other relative to how they treated you. You formed the second triad, and there might be visible evidence in their words that you were the unfortunate civilian to be stuck under their shadows. I don't actually know; I haven't looked for this exact thing.

One thing I already thought about way back (and probably should've brought up then, but I didn't) was that I was a little bit confused how Ilario had Soa as strong town as me or even stronger, when I felt I could feel our connection in a stronger sense than I felt my own connection to Soa, certainly, but also how I perceived their connection to be. I'll look at this actually. I've blocked thinking about Ilario as scum out of my brain (while knowing that is what I'm doing), which is not great, but it just feels bad. And I feel kind of dumb if I got a really stinky triad deal here lol. But I'll get over it.

Posted: **Mon Sep 20, 2021 11:16 am**

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Mon Sep 20, 2021 11:13 am
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon Sep 20, 2021 11:09 amOne thing that could perhaps help you sort this would be to examine SoA and ilario each specifically for how they treated each other relative to how they treated you. You formed the second triad, and there might be visible evidence in their words that you were the unfortunate civilian to be stuck under their shadows. I don't actually know; I haven't looked for this exact thing.
One thing I already thought about way back (and probably should've brought up then, but I didn't) was that I was a little bit confused how Ilario had Soa as strong town as me or even stronger, when I felt I could feel our connection in a stronger sense than I felt my own connection to Soa, certainly, but also how I perceived their connection to be. I'll look at this actually. I've blocked thinking about Ilario as scum out of my brain (while knowing that is what I'm doing), which is not great, but it just feels bad. And I feel kind of dumb if I got a really stinky triad deal here lol. But I'll get over it.

There'd be no shame in it if that's what happened. You'll get it right when it counts. It's not even affirmed anyway.

Posted: **Mon Sep 20, 2021 11:22 am**

Perhaps my most pertinent question today has become:

Can ilario and falcon both be mafia? My instinct is that they don't fit together well at all, but I acknowledge that wifom exists in my view that could theoretically be turned the other way. I think it's important in that the only way I can identify (barring being super wrong about a town read) that G-Man can be town is if both ilario and falcon are mafia. Otherwise he's just kinda sunk.

Posted: **Mon Sep 20, 2021 11:30 am**

I'm not sure. Nothing is definitive

Spoiler: show

Posted: **Mon Sep 20, 2021 11:32 am**

wow, spoiler fail. let me try again.

I'm not sure. Nothing is definitive

Spoiler: show

but generally I think it's clear that the wolves have pushed for falcon, and whether it is distancing or a concerted effort at a mischop is up in the air.

I think it's possible wolves were fishing for where to push so now we all got stock on falcon.

I think D2 was, with all its chaos, more or less close that they thought they could make a push against him, so I tend to think falcon might be, based less so on post-to-post interaction and more on thread states the weaker link of the established PoE.

Posted: **Mon Sep 20, 2021 11:37 am**

That tends to be my view as well, Johanna. I would probably feel stronger if falcon hadn't joined the vanishing club.

Posted: **Mon Sep 20, 2021 11:57 am**

How does everyone feel about hammering in about an hour? If the current deadline is to be sustained it's gotta be soon or otherwise wait until the entire day passes. I don't feel strongly either way as long as Dolby is the next to go.

Posted: **Mon Sep 20, 2021 12:23 pm**

[VOTE: Dolby] aubergine

Posted: **Mon Sep 20, 2021 12:23 pm**

I would like everyone to chip in.

Spoiler: show

It's also no trouble if EoD comes a few hours later.

I feel rather disappointed than 30% of the players haven't bothered to even show up.

Posted: **Mon Sep 20, 2021 12:23 pm**

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon Sep 20, 2021 11:37 am That tends to be my view as well, Johanna. I would probably feel stronger if falcon hadn't joined the vanishing club.

Sometimes I drink a lot of vodka...and whisky....and tequila

Posted: **Mon Sep 20, 2021 12:26 pm**

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon Sep 20, 2021 12:18 am
G-Man wrote: ↑Mon Sep 20, 2021 12:14 am
Marmot wrote: ↑Sun Sep 19, 2021 11:47 pm
Even if you don't read the JJJ outcomes of the interactive analyses, he at least did a reasonable legwork compiling the interactions to save time.

Those will hopefully be my breakfast reading in the morning.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon Sep 20, 2021 12:02 am @G-Man I’m not clear on your explanation for Dolby being more likely innocent (relative to SoA) than falcon. Could you expand or restate?
It's not a 'Dolby is more innocent' thing. It's a 'Falcon is more guilty' thing just because Falcon's been on my radar for a phase longer. I didn't pick up on Dolby until I read his ISO and saw that the forest wasn't as impressive as some of the individual trees.

Perhaps I can deep dive into Dolby again over lunch, but I have to prep for my evening obligation at lunchtime as well.
I’d love to hear what @Dolby and @falcon45ca each think of G-Man’s perspectives.

I think Gman's having trouble advancing his reads, which is something scum often have trouble doing.

The last sentence is rather scummy IMO

Posted: **Mon Sep 20, 2021 12:28 pm**

Johanna wrote: ↑Mon Sep 20, 2021 11:10 am But why vanish from the game. It's so weird. Granted I don't think I've seen w!Dolby in forever, it just doesn't seem like him.

I don't know the others. I'm going to hate it if Sort By PostCount delivers victory unto us.

It's posts like this that make me wonder if you're a wolf who's just slipping by with little suspicion

Posted: **Mon Sep 20, 2021 12:33 pm**

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon Sep 20, 2021 11:57 am How does everyone feel about hammering in about an hour? If the current deadline is to be sustained it's gotta be soon or otherwise wait until the entire day passes. I don't feel strongly either way as long as Dolby is the next to go.

I'm not opposed, tho I'd rather have more time with you helping us solve.

Sorry for tunneling you BTW, but I'm kinda not sorry & it might happen again in other games

Posted: **Mon Sep 20, 2021 12:34 pm**

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Mon Sep 20, 2021 12:33 pm
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon Sep 20, 2021 11:57 am How does everyone feel about hammering in about an hour? If the current deadline is to be sustained it's gotta be soon or otherwise wait until the entire day passes. I don't feel strongly either way as long as Dolby is the next to go.
I'm not opposed, tho I'd rather have more time with you helping us solve.

Sorry for tunneling you BTW, but I'm kinda not sorry & it might happen again in other games

If you want more time then you should have it. You could well be the game's most important slot right now. I'd like to see your accusations become dialogues today, e.g. with G-Man and Johanna.

Posted: **Mon Sep 20, 2021 12:37 pm**

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon Sep 20, 2021 12:34 pm
falcon45ca wrote: ↑Mon Sep 20, 2021 12:33 pm
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon Sep 20, 2021 11:57 am How does everyone feel about hammering in about an hour? If the current deadline is to be sustained it's gotta be soon or otherwise wait until the entire day passes. I don't feel strongly either way as long as Dolby is the next to go.
I'm not opposed, tho I'd rather have more time with you helping us solve.

Sorry for tunneling you BTW, but I'm kinda not sorry & it might happen again in other games
If you want more time then you should have it. You could well be the game's most important slot right now. I'd like to see your accusations become dialogues today, e.g. with G-Man and Johanna.

How do you feel about Johanna's recent posts?

There's just like a weird...I dunno, lamenting tone about them that just doesn't feel organic to me.

Posted: **Mon Sep 20, 2021 12:40 pm**

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Mon Sep 20, 2021 12:37 pm How do you feel about Johanna's recent posts?

There's just like a weird...I dunno, lamenting tone about them that just doesn't feel organic to me.

That's not really my impression. I think she is doing her best to make her mark in a game where a lot may already feel "decided". There may be some manner of "lament" in the tone, but that's not something that concerns me. I don't think it's out of place contextually.

Nonetheless I'd like to hear what she has to say in response to your suspicion so things can develop.

Posted: **Mon Sep 20, 2021 12:42 pm**

I don't think Falcon's slot is all that important. He was set up as the counter wagon on multiple days, he doesn't work with SoA as far as I can tell based on my own reads... I would 100% kill Dolby, G-Man, Ilario before Falcon, maybe even Johanna tbh.

Posted: **Mon Sep 20, 2021 12:47 pm**

My main hangup with respect to falcon's fit with SoA is that SoA's effort to make a wagon of him on Day 2 was quite weak per the timeline. He placed the vote, called himself a "falcon killer", and disappeared for the remaining 90 minutes of the day. The push certainly wasn't sustained.

One could also make the argument in the opposite direction that it evidenced he was perfectly content on Falcon and maybe wanted to save Lime Coke for next, so shrug. I 85% agree, NAA (though I don't think I put Johanna before him).

Posted: **Mon Sep 20, 2021 12:48 pm**

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon Sep 20, 2021 12:40 pm
falcon45ca wrote: ↑Mon Sep 20, 2021 12:37 pm How do you feel about Johanna's recent posts?

There's just like a weird...I dunno, lamenting tone about them that just doesn't feel organic to me.
That's not really my impression. I think she is doing her best to make her mark in a game where a lot may already feel "decided". There may be some manner of "lament" in the tone, but that's not something that concerns me. I don't think it's out of place contextually.

Nonetheless I'd like to hear what she has to say in response to your suspicion so things can develop.

That's been my general impression as well, and it could be that I'm getting a bit tinfoil-y on her for spurious reasons.

Posted: **Mon Sep 20, 2021 12:50 pm**

Dolby is confirmed mafia
G-Man is likely mafia
ilario fits better with SoA than falcon does

If that's not the team then falcon is my next up. If it's anyone else, then I am wrong and will need to lean on those who outlive me to figure it out. I don't feel wrong.

That's essentially my view of the game.

Posted: **Mon Sep 20, 2021 12:52 pm**

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Mon Sep 20, 2021 12:48 pm That's been my general impression as well, and it could be that I'm getting a bit tinfoil-y on her for spurious reasons.

Do you have any immediate doubts or concerns about this as the team: Dolby, G-Man, ilario?

Posted: **Mon Sep 20, 2021 12:53 pm**

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon Sep 20, 2021 12:50 pm Dolby is confirmed mafia
G-Man is likely mafia
ilario fits better with SoA than falcon does

If that's not the team then falcon is my next up. If it's anyone else, then I am wrong and will need to lean on those who outlive me to figure it out. I don't feel wrong.

That's essentially my view of the game.

I'd like to flip Dolby, then Gman & Ilario, quit reading my thoughts.

There are unclean images in there ya know

Posted: **Mon Sep 20, 2021 12:56 pm**

I'm good with hammering whenever people want. I don't really have time to hang around tonight anyway, so up to the people who's here

Posted: **Mon Sep 20, 2021 12:59 pm**

I do think Dolby is always the chop today, no discussion there.

I'm perfectly understanding of "tinfoil" because I am usually not very assertive. I value my own honesty and I'm generally not going to argue forcefully for things I do not strongly believe in.

This game maybe even more so because I know nobody and it has just been weird in general. Starting by missing the entirety of D1, although lately I've kind of made it my M.O.

Posted: **Mon Sep 20, 2021 1:03 pm**

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Sat Sep 11, 2021 10:10 pm
Son of Anarch wrote: ↑Sat Sep 11, 2021 6:29 pm Sig's defensive reaction ain't good... Kinda yikes if ya ask me.
Redundant. If it ain't good, you don't need to also tell us it's yikes.

Why do I feel you're trying to sell me something?

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Sat Sep 11, 2021 10:11 pm
Son of Anarch wrote: ↑Sat Sep 11, 2021 6:03 pm Also I'm thinkin' there's probably a scum in the 0-posters. Not sure if mafia the syndicate is the same, but on mafia scum a ton of folk hate randin' mafia to the point where they'll barely post. It can get pretty annoyin' and well... we've got three guys here not speakin' and I don't feel super bamboozled yet. I think I'm gonna make an enemy out of anyone who comes into the thread now.
Pushing low posters D1? Never seen scum do that before...

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Sun Sep 12, 2021 5:27 pm
Son of Anarch wrote: ↑Sun Sep 12, 2021 5:14 pm
falcon45ca wrote: ↑Sun Sep 12, 2021 5:13 pm
Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Sun Sep 12, 2021 4:59 pm
falcon45ca wrote: ↑Sun Sep 12, 2021 4:55 pm [VOTE: Ilario] aubergine
This chop won't happen.
If you had to choose between the people having votes already, who would it be?
Also what's your thoughts on Sig?
Not with that kind of attitude.

GTH sig is town
What’s he done to “earn” your town read?
He hasn't, a GTH read from me is the same as a gut read.

I feel he'd come across more agenda-y if he were Maf

Moments like these make me want to separate falcon from SoA. I haven't been able to pull the trigger since falcon kind of treats everyone like this at least once.

Posted: **Mon Sep 20, 2021 1:04 pm**

what is GTH?

Posted: **Mon Sep 20, 2021 1:06 pm**

Son of Anarch wrote: ↑Mon Sep 13, 2021 7:22 pm Ah man, can't say I'm stoked about that at all. My Internet was down until around this aftenoon so backreadin' wasn't really possible for me. I'm gonna say though that I still think Falcon Man's EOD wasn't the greatest and I'd like to hear some of the other thoughts on that.

Another interestin' thing is that if SPF is poisoned that might reflect well on the triad 'cause they were kinda all huddlin' together, yeah? Normally if you're tryin' to pocket someone you don't kill them. That's just a basic read though.

Son of Anarch wrote: ↑Mon Sep 13, 2021 7:37 pm
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon Sep 13, 2021 7:33 pm I just ran through the end of the day and frankly found it meaningless. That doesn't necessarily mean the posts cannot be assessed meaningfully, but that's why I don't care to play ketchup. The thread becomes a contextless void to me.

Would anyone be able to describe for me, as you saw it, the progression of events/posts/whatever that caused falcon to become a wagon? I poked in here and there when my phone was dying and saw votes on him, but had no context in the moment.
It's simple. Falcon Man at end of day voted Ilario, when my pal Dizzy told him no one was gonna vote Ilario he basically said that "you never know". Then when me and Dizzy gave him the ol' 1-2 vote and Stayposi joined in, he accused two of us of bein' mafia. One being me, as he scum read me earlier and the other person bein'... TBD... I don't think he ever clarified who the second scum on him was. So that gave me the confidence to just hold my vote and to watch what happened.

Son of Anarch wrote: ↑Tue Sep 14, 2021 12:03 am
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon Sep 13, 2021 11:59 pm
Son of Anarch wrote: ↑Mon Sep 13, 2021 11:57 pm If someone could ask me a few questions or somethin' to help me get on some sorta track that'd be swell
What would you say has changed most about your view of the game, if anything, since sig flipped town?
To be fully honest, not that much. I think Sloonei got a little scummier to me 'cause I didn't like the way he was handlin' the discussion between me and sig. I think it's kinda weird how we had more than one person sayin' sig was explicitly town rather than sayin' he should have more time to post, I already find Falcon Man to be the most suspicious on that list to start with. Other than that, I'm not super shocked the dude flipped town. I'd need to examine the wagon too because there's probably at least one wolf on there considerin' how votes went. Overall, still feelin' pretty good about game and game state.

These posts open Day 2 (among others) for SoA after having voted falcon prior to EOD1 and bouncing. So while he didn't sustain the push against falcon during that EOD, he did leave his vote and then pick up the case immediately once Day 2 was underway. So in that sense he "sustained" it, perhaps to falcon's credit.

Posted: **Mon Sep 20, 2021 1:07 pm**

Johanna wrote: ↑Mon Sep 20, 2021 1:04 pmwhat is GTH?

gun-to-head read

Posted: **Mon Sep 20, 2021 1:08 pm**

the only thing that came to mind was go to hell and that didn't quite make sense. kept meaning to and forgetting to ask

Posted: **Mon Sep 20, 2021 1:09 pm**

ilario wrote: ↑Fri Sep 17, 2021 11:24 pm
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Fri Sep 17, 2021 8:18 pm @ilario just for the log, is Son of Anarch still a town read?
He’s been trending down and down

But that’s mostly because others are trending up and not so much due to the fact that he has done anything I find to be scummy

I think falcons reasoning for all his votes, like his recent vote on gman are all incredibly shallow and in a world where falcon is scum I feel better about soa

This post has been a bit of a smoking gun lingering in my brain. That last sentence brings together my entire team theory in one nicely collapsed moment.

ilario accuses falcon of making a shallow vote on G-Man (thereby defending G-Man) and suggests a mafia falcon flip would make him feel better about SoA (thereby endorsing a falcon elimination before an SoA elimination).

Posted: **Mon Sep 20, 2021 1:10 pm**

lmao. yeah that's extremely damning tbh. It just reinforces the "falcon for Mafia mischop 2020" idea.

Posted: **Mon Sep 20, 2021 1:11 pm**

God we're in 2021. God.

The Syndicate

Fleabag Mafia mafia win

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