The Syndicate

If the day ended right now Jay, who would get your vote?

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Epignosis wrote:My point is you normally try to listen to fellow civilians. You are one of the few who make honest efforts to understand a civilian angle to a person's posts, but you didn't do that. You certainly never listened to me. You're not a civilian this time.

Hey 3J-

Who is the serial killer?

You're taking two lynches you didn't like and then casting an umbrella over my entire performance in this game. I have tried the best I can to listen to other people's perspectives. When I have agreed I have said so, and when I have not agreed I have said so.

The reasons you gave in defense of INH and A Person were either completely irrelevant to my suspicions or just plain crap. Your defense of A Person was based on his post count. You were on a team with reywaS in recent memory and know better than that logic.

I don't know who the SK is. I don't even know if the SK is alive. If it's one of you my first guess would be Marmot.

Mafia -- Epignosis
Civilian -- Wilgy
SK -- Marmot

If the SK is dead, Marmot is civilian.

Woah woah woah.

I missed this post.

My defense of A Person was based on his post count?

Jay, that tells me you didn't even bother with my defense of A Person.

Metalmarsh89 wrote:If the day ended right now Jay, who would get your vote?

Epignosis.

Epignosis wrote:Woah woah woah.

I missed this post.

My defense of A Person was based on his post count?

Jay, that tells me you didn't even bother with my defense of A Person.

If you feel you made a brilliant point in his defense that should have changed my mind, share it now and tell me why.

And answer my damned question. Who are the SK and Mladic?

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:And answer my damned question. Who are the SK and Mladic?

You and you.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Epignosis wrote:Woah woah woah.

I missed this post.

My defense of A Person was based on his post count?

Jay, that tells me you didn't even bother with my defense of A Person.

If you feel you made a brilliant point in his defense that should have changed my mind, share it now and tell me why.

What's the point?

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Metalmarsh89 wrote:If the day ended right now Jay, who would get your vote?

Epignosis.

Clearly we're on different wavelengths here.

Linki: lol

Epignosis wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:And answer my damned question. Who are the SK and Mladic?

You and you.

No. You've placed us in a scenario where there's still a serial killer and a mafioso. So define that scenario clearly.

Metalmarsh89 wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Metalmarsh89 wrote:If the day ended right now Jay, who would get your vote?

Epignosis.

Clearly we're on different wavelengths here.

Linki: lol

I'm considering your BTSC theory and currently looking through alternative possibilities. I don't think your theory is lock-tight, I think Epignosis has done plenty of scummy shit in this game, and I think he looks bad next to Dom.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Metalmarsh89 wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Metalmarsh89 wrote:If the day ended right now Jay, who would get your vote?

Epignosis.

Clearly we're on different wavelengths here.

Linki: lol

I'm considering your BTSC theory and currently looking through alternative possibilities. I don't think your theory is lock-tight, I think Epignosis has done plenty of scummy shit in this game, and I think he looks bad next to Dom.

What "scummy" things have I done Jay?

Marmot, how would you assign alignments to the remaining players?

Epignosis wrote:What "scummy" things have I done Jay?

Claimed credit and moral high ground for doing nothing, criticized other players who didn't do nothing, lynched G-Man without listening to anything he said or respecting his effort, called me scum for things you're also guilty of, and made less effort to hunt for bad guys than your post count implies you would have.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Metalmarsh89 wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Metalmarsh89 wrote:If the day ended right now Jay, who would get your vote?

Epignosis.

Clearly we're on different wavelengths here.

Linki: lol

I'm considering your BTSC theory and currently looking through alternative possibilities. I don't think your theory is lock-tight, I think Epignosis has done plenty of scummy shit in this game, and I think he looks bad next to Dom.

Considering BWT's disappearance, do you still think he/DrWilgy can be the SK?

Jay = evil marmot-slayer
DrWilgy = if he's bad, then he's mafia
Epignosis = 09-15-00

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Epignosis wrote:What "scummy" things have I done Jay?

Claimed credit and moral high ground for doing nothing, criticized other players who didn't do nothing, lynched G-Man without listening to anything he said or respecting his effort, called me scum for things you're also guilty of, and made less effort to hunt for bad guys than your post count implies you would have.

That sounds like my civilian curriculum vitae.

Epignosis wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Epignosis wrote:What "scummy" things have I done Jay?

Claimed credit and moral high ground for doing nothing, criticized other players who didn't do nothing, lynched G-Man without listening to anything he said or respecting his effort, called me scum for things you're also guilty of, and made less effort to hunt for bad guys than your post count implies you would have.

That sounds like my civilian curriculum vitae.

You'd like to think so, but no way.

I'd like to think so.

This guy.

Metalmarsh89 wrote:Considering BWT's disappearance, do you still think he/DrWilgy can be the SK?

I'd have to review the exact moment of Wilgy's arrival relative to the SK kills to be certain. My take has been that it'd be unlikely. I did think he was among the most-implicated players relative to trice's posts. It warrants thorough investigation under the circumstances.

Another note, there was obviously an insanifier role in this game, one that is likely mafia. Dom is most likely Sleep, so he could not have that power. G-Man did not have that power. I feel confident that Quin and LoRab were civilians with BTSC, thus didn't have that power. Sig was not around to properly and so methodically use that power.

The players that are left: I feel confident Epignosis is a civilian. DrWilgy/BWT haven't been around to effectively use that power. That leaves you Jay. But with Sleep presumably dead, the trend makes sense that if you are mafia, then you could only kill, not use such a power.

OR

You are the SK, and you opted not to kill or use that power to give the impression that the SK is dead (unlikely).

Jay, you voted me the day G-Man was lynched. Why did you vote for me?

Epignosis wrote:I'd like to think so.

This guy.

I think a more accurate depiction of your civilian game relative to those specific beefs would be:

Claims credit and moral high ground for presenting a preferable alternative which was ignored, criticize other players who didn't accept that alternative while also carrying on a discussion with those people, maybe lynch G-Man after having a mutual exchange in which you felt his content was faked after discussing why you felt it was faked or maybe decide that's not the greatest lynch, called me scum for things you're also guilty of (I'll give you that one), and made a visible and consistent effort to hunt for bad guys comparable to the most effortful players in the game.

Metalmarsh89 wrote:Another note, there was obviously an insanifier role in this game, one that is likely mafia. Dom is most likely Sleep, so he could not have that power. G-Man did not have that power. I feel confident that Quin and LoRab were civilians with BTSC, thus didn't have that power. Sig was not around to properly and so methodically use that power.

The players that are left: I feel confident Epignosis is a civilian. DrWilgy/BWT haven't been around to effectively use that power. That leaves you Jay. But with Sleep presumably dead, the trend makes sense that if you are mafia, then you could only kill, not use such a power.

OR

You are the SK, and you opted not to kill or use that power to give the impression that the SK is dead (unlikely).

I think Sleep could have had that power in the [secrets], and the absence of a Captain Insano today would seem to indicate that ability has gone.

Metalmarsh89 wrote:Jay, you voted me the day G-Man was lynched. Why did you vote for me?

I felt you were are viable candidate for either baddie faction, mafia or SK. Your lynch survival played a part in that, as did the general suspicions I've discussed and trice's posts (you were close to the top of that analysis too).

I thought G-Man was a good SK prospect and a bad mafia prospect.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Metalmarsh89 wrote:Jay, you voted me the day G-Man was lynched. Why did you vote for me?

I felt you were are viable candidate for either baddie faction, mafia or SK. Your lynch survival played a part in that, as did the general suspicions I've discussed and trice's posts (you were close to the top of that analysis too).

I thought G-Man was a good SK prospect and a bad mafia prospect.

You survived a lynch as well (and clearly so). What should I make of that?

Metalmarsh89 wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Metalmarsh89 wrote:Jay, you voted me the day G-Man was lynched. Why did you vote for me?

I felt you were are viable candidate for either baddie faction, mafia or SK. Your lynch survival played a part in that, as did the general suspicions I've discussed and trice's posts (you were close to the top of that analysis too).

I thought G-Man was a good SK prospect and a bad mafia prospect.

You survived a lynch as well (and clearly so). What should I make of that?

You should consider why I felt that way about you specifically as it pertains to game balance. Otherwise that's a question for you to answer.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Metalmarsh89 wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Metalmarsh89 wrote:Jay, you voted me the day G-Man was lynched. Why did you vote for me?

I felt you were are viable candidate for either baddie faction, mafia or SK. Your lynch survival played a part in that, as did the general suspicions I've discussed and trice's posts (you were close to the top of that analysis too).

I thought G-Man was a good SK prospect and a bad mafia prospect.

You survived a lynch as well (and clearly so). What should I make of that?

You should consider why I felt that way about you specifically as it pertains to game balance. Otherwise that's a question for you to answer.

I don't know why I wasn't lynched, nor even if I was the one who was supposed to die.

You implied some knowledge of the events around your lynch.

So, nope, I got nothing except oodles of wariness.

Metalmarsh89 wrote:I don't know why I wasn't lynched, nor even if I was the one who was supposed to die.

You implied some knowledge of the events around your lynch.

So, nope, I got nothing except oodles of wariness.

You're right that it isn't fully affirmed that you were the one saved in that lynch. I'm not going to role hint. All I can do is try to direct your head to the right place.

Ask yourself why I might be inordinately concerned when someone else survives a lynch?

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Metalmarsh89 wrote:I don't know why I wasn't lynched, nor even if I was the one who was supposed to die.

You implied some knowledge of the events around your lynch.

So, nope, I got nothing except oodles of wariness.

You're right that it isn't fully affirmed that you were the one saved in that lynch. I'm not going to role hint. All I can do is try to direct your head to the right place.

Ask yourself why I might be inordinately concerned when someone else survives a lynch?

You would be concerned if you are a civilian that the lynch-save is malicious.

You are trying to direct my head to the right place...

So I should be concerned that your lynch-save is malicious?

There are so many possible BTSC combinations to look at and it's taking forever.

Metalmarsh89 wrote:You would be concerned if you are a civilian that the lynch-save is malicious.

You are trying to direct my head to the right place...

So I should be concerned that your lynch-save is malicious?

I don't think you're understanding me.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Epignosis wrote:I'd like to think so.

This guy.

I think a more accurate depiction of your civilian game relative to those specific beefs would be:

Claims credit and moral high ground for presenting a preferable alternative which was ignored, criticize other players who didn't accept that alternative while also carrying on a discussion with those people, maybe lynch G-Man after having a mutual exchange in which you felt his content was faked after discussing why you felt it was faked or maybe decide that's not the greatest lynch, called me scum for things you're also guilty of (I'll give you that one), and made a visible and consistent effort to hunt for bad guys comparable to the most effortful players in the game.

This is all very funny to me.

No, what I've done here is not what I normally do as a civilian. I tried this crazy thing where you look for the civilians instead. It's a thing nobody would expect me to try since I've criticized it so much before, and in a game with so many secrets and a serial killer, it's a terribly impactical strategy.

Yet I feel like I did it better than I've ever seen it done.

No, I didn't have to provide an alternative lynch victim. My objective was finding a good reason why someone shouldn't be lynched, and offer that to the thread. People didn't listen, and that's on them, not me.

I've tried every method I've ever been critical of at least once. I've participated in your "GTH reads.". I've done a rainbow list (granted, I was the Warden), so I thought I'd try something else this time.

The irony is that you've lambasted me for trying out an idea you brought here. I worked out three civilians in the early game phase, and you didn't see that as a grounds for congratulations or even to smugly say, "See what I've been saying?"

And for all of this, you have my vote.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Metalmarsh89 wrote:You would be concerned if you are a civilian that the lynch-save is malicious.

You are trying to direct my head to the right place...

So I should be concerned that your lynch-save is malicious?

I don't think you're understanding me.

Clearly.

Epignosis wrote:And for all of this, you have my vote.

I had your vote last night. You don't care.

Metalmarsh89 wrote:Clearly.

I'll try this another way.

Consider two lynch survivals, regardless of who. Consider the mindsets of those players and the possible reasons for their survivals.

Then consider game balance and how people might feel about what they observe.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Metalmarsh89 wrote:Clearly.

I'll try this another way.

Consider two lynch survivals, regardless of who. Consider the mindsets of those players and the possible reasons for their survivals.

Then consider game balance and how people might feel about what they observe.

Done!

Vote JaggedJimmyJay

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Epignosis wrote:And for all of this, you have my vote.

I had your vote last night. You don't care.

You had no one's vote last time.

What don't I care about?

According to you, I'm the last mafia. I SHOULDN'T have to care, so why does that bother you?

Metalmarsh89 wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Metalmarsh89 wrote:Clearly.

I'll try this another way.

Consider two lynch survivals, regardless of who. Consider the mindsets of those players and the possible reasons for their survivals.

Then consider game balance and how people might feel about what they observe.

Done!

Vote JaggedJimmyJay

Okay. Why?

Epignosis wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Epignosis wrote:And for all of this, you have my vote.

I had your vote last night. You don't care.

You had no one's vote last time.

What don't I care about?

According to you, I'm the last mafia. I SHOULDN'T have to care, so why does that bother you?

I said last night. You're acting like you just decided to vote for me after considering the details and that's a joke. Your point is also nonsense. You don't care because you have no real motive to judge my alignment.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Metalmarsh89 wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Metalmarsh89 wrote:Clearly.

I'll try this another way.

Consider two lynch survivals, regardless of who. Consider the mindsets of those players and the possible reasons for their survivals.

Then consider game balance and how people might feel about what they observe.

Done!

Vote JaggedJimmyJay

Okay. Why?

Trice and I tied for a lynch, but one survived (and trice's role implied it wasn't him).

You survived a lynch.



Game mechanics, balancing shit, and all that jazz suggest that one is a good lynch-survival and one is an evil lynch-survival.

Coincidentally, I came to the conclusion you are an evil marmot-slayer many days ago.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Epignosis wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Epignosis wrote:And for all of this, you have my vote.

I had your vote last night. You don't care.

You had no one's vote last time.

What don't I care about?

According to you, I'm the last mafia. I SHOULDN'T have to care, so why does that bother you?

I said last night. You're acting like you just decided to vote for me after considering the details and that's a joke. Your point is also nonsense. You don't care because you have no real motive to judge my alignment.

No, I'm acting like I'm voting you after considering the other choices.

That's how "Process of Elimination" works, right?

Oh, and you cursed me, you killed my bride, you tried to lynch me three times, and you're willing to believe that Epignosis is more likely to be a mafioso than a simple civilian with BTSC.

Metalmarsh89 wrote:Trice and I tied for a lynch, but one survived (and trice's role implied it wasn't him).

You survived a lynch.

Game mechanics, balancing shit, and all that jazz suggest that one is a good lynch-survival and one is an evil lynch-survival.

Coincidentally, I came to the conclusion you are an evil marmot-slayer many days ago.

Then your reason for suspicion is exactly the same as mine. And yet I am still here working out other possibilities because Mafia is not that simple -- especially not around here. If you're civilian then you'd better do the same or the game is over.

Welcome to the party DrWilgy. That puts all living players online at once!

Metalmarsh89 wrote:Oh, and you cursed me, you killed my bride, you tried to lynch me three times, and you're willing to believe that Epignosis is more likely to be a mafioso than a simple civilian with BTSC.

Your current assignment is to look at the Golden/Niju interaction. Get busy.

Epignosis wrote:No, I'm acting like I'm voting you after considering the other choices.

That's how "Process of Elimination" works, right?

You you aren't. What a load of shit.

Also you still haven't told me who the SK and Mladic are. Because you don't care about answering the most important question in the game.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Epignosis wrote:No, I'm acting like I'm voting you after considering the other choices.

That's how "Process of Elimination" works, right?

You you aren't. What a load of shit.

Also you still haven't told me who the SK and Mladic are. Because you don't care about answering the most important question in the game.

Haven't you been paying attention?

I've been figuring out who is NOT them.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Wilgy: thoughts on all three please.

Marmot - Civ, I don't see him PoE-ing Epi at this point if he were bad.

You and Epi may be both bad if there SK isn't dead. If the SK is dead, I think you are more likely to be bad JJJ, but this is purely tin foil at this point.

Linki - but I wanna go to beeeeed.

I plan on personally reviewing Dom tomorrow but for now I sleep.

Epignosis wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Epignosis wrote:No, I'm acting like I'm voting you after considering the other choices.

That's how "Process of Elimination" works, right?

You you aren't. What a load of shit.

Also you still haven't told me who the SK and Mladic are. Because you don't care about answering the most important question in the game.

Haven't you been paying attention?

I've been figuring out who is NOT them.

No, you literally haven't been doing that.

You disqualified everyone except me in a world you claim still has two non-civilians.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Metalmarsh89 wrote:Oh, and you cursed me, you killed my bride, you tried to lynch me three times, and you're willing to believe that Epignosis is more likely to be a mafioso than a simple civilian with BTSC.

Your current assignment is to look at the Golden/Niju interaction. Get busy.

Excellent! That accounts for the other round of civilian "BTSC" (Sunshine + Gasoline). Good eye Jay.