The Syndicate

Wisp wrote: ↑Sat Jul 11, 2020 11:04 am Called into work earlier, rip...
Will be around for EoD though

@ColinIsCool
#3249 pretty much amounts to "I am getting scumread for the things that other people are doing," and means very little to me

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Fri Jul 10, 2020 11:28 pm I’m the protagonist of Bioshock if that helps sort the character dynamic (relationship between character and role/alignment)

Epignosis wrote: ↑Sat Jul 11, 2020 11:46 am

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Fri Jul 10, 2020 11:28 pm I’m the protagonist of Bioshock if that helps sort the character dynamic (relationship between character and role/alignment)

I am only upset with myself for not figuring out that you're Jack Ryan.

Now, would you kindly vote for a mafia member?

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sat Jul 11, 2020 1:19 am Jay is taking every opportunity to say that he doesn't think I look townie but he hasn't moved me down on his list, which seems arbitrary. His list, in fact, basically hasn't changed at all since day 1 from what I can tell.

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sat Jul 11, 2020 1:27 am

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sat Jul 11, 2020 1:25 am For those still concerned about Epignosis, I think your best bet is to review his ISO with a specific objective: determine who would fit as his mafia teammates. When I reviewed them all in speed mode at EON1 (link), I determined he could be a compatible teammate of seven players:

ColinIsCool
Pawnyo -- these two are in the POE, and are co-compatible. So technically Epignosis, Colin, Pawnyo is a plausible team.
Spacedaisy
Wisp
Kitsu
sabie12 -- fitting with these players is irrelevant if they're civilians.
Nanook

If the team isn't exactly Epignosis/Pawn/Colin, then it's more difficult to see a mafioso in Epi. If any among you investigate for yourselves you may feel differently. I think this is ideal though as opposed to the vaguer notions of suspicion with which he has been cased for the most part.

I think it can easily be you / epi but otherwise came to the same conclusion on epi earlier.

Epignosis wrote: ↑Sat Jul 11, 2020 11:46 am

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Fri Jul 10, 2020 11:28 pm I’m the protagonist of Bioshock if that helps sort the character dynamic (relationship between character and role/alignment)

I am only upset with myself for not figuring out that you're Jack Ryan.

Now, would you kindly vote for a mafia member?

sabie12 wrote: ↑Sat Jul 11, 2020 1:43 am

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sat Jul 11, 2020 1:16 am Wisp
Hally

Long Con
Spacedaisy

sabie12
KitsuShel
Epignosis

TonyStarkPrime
Alison

ColinIsCool
Pawn Lelouch
DrWilgy

This is pretty much where I'm at right now.

Epignosis wrote: ↑Sat Jul 11, 2020 11:58 am

sabie12 wrote: ↑Sat Jul 11, 2020 1:43 am

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sat Jul 11, 2020 1:16 am Wisp
Hally

Long Con
Spacedaisy

sabie12
KitsuShel
Epignosis

TonyStarkPrime
Alison

ColinIsCool
Pawn Lelouch
DrWilgy

This is pretty much where I'm at right now.

You'd put yourself in the middle?

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sat Jul 11, 2020 2:21 am

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sat Jul 11, 2020 2:01 am I understand why. But like. You allow your role to be taken advantage of as quickly as possible for no discernable value.

My role has no discernible value. It is explicitly crippled. If I have to go off explaining it later in a game then people like TonyStarkPrime think I'm a bullshitter and I just don't want to deal with that. That's not healthy for the civilian faction.

Epignosis wrote: ↑Sat Jul 11, 2020 11:58 am

sabie12 wrote: ↑Sat Jul 11, 2020 1:43 am

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sat Jul 11, 2020 1:16 am Wisp
Hally

Long Con
Spacedaisy

sabie12
KitsuShel
Epignosis

TonyStarkPrime
Alison

ColinIsCool
Pawn Lelouch
DrWilgy

This is pretty much where I'm at right now.

You'd put yourself in the middle?

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sat Jul 11, 2020 2:31 am Like. I get your logic. I think it's in profile for you too. But understand that if anyone else did it this way I'd probably be voting for them right now.

ColinIsCool wrote: ↑Sat Jul 11, 2020 10:19 am The only times I can ever remember myself “catching“ Jay as mafia were not games (might have just been one, actually) where he was directing activity in the thread, forming POEs, serving as morale captain, etc. I just don’t see scum Jay there, and if there is scum Jay there, it’s beyond my abilities right now to sort through his ISO and make that case. Is that defeatist? Hi, I’m Colin, nice to meet you.

I’ve gotten in trouble as scum for TMIing Jay in games past so I see where the accusation is coming from, but here it’s just a read.

Alison wrote: ↑Sat Jul 11, 2020 4:09 am
I think Epi is the scummiest player outside of the POE

Alison wrote: ↑Sat Jul 11, 2020 5:13 am I can see why civillian Epi would suspect me but the defense of Pawn simply for having a few words that make sense put together in one post seems to be extremely out of character

In a world where Epi was a civillian I'd expect him to just put me and Pawn in a bucket and say we are both scum and should be shot. That makes sense to me. "Alison is scum, Pawn is town, kill Alison and definitely not Pawn" doesn't.

Wisp wrote: ↑Sat Jul 11, 2020 11:52 am

Epignosis wrote: ↑Sat Jul 11, 2020 11:46 am

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Fri Jul 10, 2020 11:28 pm I’m the protagonist of Bioshock if that helps sort the character dynamic (relationship between character and role/alignment)

I am only upset with myself for not figuring out that you're Jack Ryan.

Now, would you kindly vote for a mafia member?

who are the mafia members again?

Epignosis wrote: ↑Fri Jul 10, 2020 11:00 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Fri Jul 10, 2020 10:56 pm

Epignosis wrote: ↑Fri Jul 10, 2020 10:53 pmThere's plenty of people.

The rest of your gripe is irrelevant. Let’s focus on this right here.

Who’s “plenty”? You suspect Alison. Who else?

Colin, Wilgy, Alison, TSP.

Can I post please?

Wisp wrote: ↑Sat Jul 11, 2020 11:52 am The towniest thing about Colin's iso is that there really isn't anything explicitly wolfy... from my POV

1. He is very dismissive
2. Asks questions with no follow-ups
3. Has done very little scum hunting
4. wants to avoid the low-poster PoE because it's lazy? which is pretty ironic since he has been leaving all the work to us

but on the other hand, he feels like he is in his own world
its definitely a read I've use before, for example, Game 6 of Champs

Alison wrote: ↑Sat Jul 11, 2020 12:05 pm

ColinIsCool wrote: ↑Sat Jul 11, 2020 10:19 am The only times I can ever remember myself “catching“ Jay as mafia were not games (might have just been one, actually) where he was directing activity in the thread, forming POEs, serving as morale captain, etc. I just don’t see scum Jay there, and if there is scum Jay there, it’s beyond my abilities right now to sort through his ISO and make that case. Is that defeatist? Hi, I’m Colin, nice to meet you.

I’ve gotten in trouble as scum for TMIing Jay in games past so I see where the accusation is coming from, but here it’s just a read.

I have two possible beliefs I could hold.

1) I could believe that Colin is just a very defeatist person and signs up to games knowing that he's basically going to be pocketed and work against town if JJJ rolls wolf, and also has no desire to improve by at least trying to catch JJJ as scum

2) I could believe that Colin is just making up a random excuse as scum when questioned about his behavior in the thread

I believe 2) is significantly more likely than 1) unless you show me compelling evidence as to why 1) is the belief backed by more evidence. I think 1) is pretty far-fetched and I just don't see it so you'll have to do a lot of work to convince me it's true, like showing me a couple of past games where you just completely ignored the possibility of JJJ scum when you were town because you were convinced you'd never catch him.

ColinIsCool wrote: ↑Sat Jul 11, 2020 12:31 pmTowniest thing about me is that I’m town

ColinIsCool wrote: ↑Sat Jul 11, 2020 12:37 pm You’re reading a lot into this when you really shouldn’t.

Jay’s behavior here is so towny — we, meaning the game at large, seem to largely agree on this.

If he isn’t town, the only argument I can make to that end is tinfoil, and I try to avoid tinfoil because I have the bad habit of buying into my own BS constantly. Maybe at a future date if we’re both alive I’ll scope out Jay, but as for now, until I’m given a reason otherwise, he’s not on my radar.

That is all my little jokey post to a friend meant. If I am to be lynched over it, then so be it, but realize shortly thereafter that it’s a pretty bad reason to lynch me.

Epignosis wrote: ↑Sat Jul 11, 2020 12:16 pm

Alison wrote: ↑Sat Jul 11, 2020 5:13 am I can see why civillian Epi would suspect me but the defense of Pawn simply for having a few words that make sense put together in one post seems to be extremely out of character

In a world where Epi was a civillian I'd expect him to just put me and Pawn in a bucket and say we are both scum and should be shot. That makes sense to me. "Alison is scum, Pawn is town, kill Alison and definitely not Pawn" doesn't.

Your issue with me is that I didn't do something you would expect?

Wisp wrote: ↑Sat Jul 11, 2020 12:45 pm I can buy Colin's reasoning since I get caught up in my own tinfoils a lot.

Lately I've been trying to avoid trying to find malice in higher posters, because most of the time that just isn't the correct answer
Maybe down the line that will become a thing, if people like jagged don't just end up dead or correct at some point

Anyways I'll be back later, work for 6 hours

Alison wrote: ↑Sat Jul 11, 2020 12:55 pm

Epignosis wrote: ↑Sat Jul 11, 2020 12:16 pm

Alison wrote: ↑Sat Jul 11, 2020 5:13 am I can see why civillian Epi would suspect me but the defense of Pawn simply for having a few words that make sense put together in one post seems to be extremely out of character

In a world where Epi was a civillian I'd expect him to just put me and Pawn in a bucket and say we are both scum and should be shot. That makes sense to me. "Alison is scum, Pawn is town, kill Alison and definitely not Pawn" doesn't.

Your issue with me is that I didn't do something you would expect?

My issue with you is that you defended Pawn in a scummy way

Epignosis wrote: ↑Sat Jul 11, 2020 1:00 pm

Alison wrote: ↑Sat Jul 11, 2020 12:55 pm

Epignosis wrote: ↑Sat Jul 11, 2020 12:16 pm

Alison wrote: ↑Sat Jul 11, 2020 5:13 am I can see why civillian Epi would suspect me but the defense of Pawn simply for having a few words that make sense put together in one post seems to be extremely out of character

In a world where Epi was a civillian I'd expect him to just put me and Pawn in a bucket and say we are both scum and should be shot. That makes sense to me. "Alison is scum, Pawn is town, kill Alison and definitely not Pawn" doesn't.

Your issue with me is that I didn't do something you would expect?

My issue with you is that you defended Pawn in a scummy way

What would a "non-scummy" defense look like?

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sat Jul 11, 2020 5:21 am I think Alison looks authentic on this page.

Alison wrote: ↑Sat Jul 11, 2020 1:03 pm

Epignosis wrote: ↑Sat Jul 11, 2020 1:00 pm

Alison wrote: ↑Sat Jul 11, 2020 12:55 pm

Epignosis wrote: ↑Sat Jul 11, 2020 12:16 pm

Alison wrote: ↑Sat Jul 11, 2020 5:13 am I can see why civillian Epi would suspect me but the defense of Pawn simply for having a few words that make sense put together in one post seems to be extremely out of character

In a world where Epi was a civillian I'd expect him to just put me and Pawn in a bucket and say we are both scum and should be shot. That makes sense to me. "Alison is scum, Pawn is town, kill Alison and definitely not Pawn" doesn't.

Your issue with me is that I didn't do something you would expect?

My issue with you is that you defended Pawn in a scummy way

What would a "non-scummy" defense look like?

pointing out actual townie things he did rather than just selecting a post of his that has a bunch of stuff that could be made up as scum to townread?

the basis of my read is that I really do not think there is anything townie about that post (it isn't actively scummy, but it doesn't scream town either) and I don't really get the impression that you're the kind of player who just gives towncred to anyone who sounds reasonably articulate. this suggests to me that maybe you're reversing the order of things: you're walking into the thread with the intention of defending Pawn and looking at his ISO to see if there's any posts that look surface-level good that you can pick out and pretend to townread. And this is behavior is fundamentally scummy

Alison wrote: ↑Sat Jul 11, 2020 12:59 pm

Wisp wrote: ↑Sat Jul 11, 2020 12:45 pm I can buy Colin's reasoning since I get caught up in my own tinfoils a lot.

Lately I've been trying to avoid trying to find malice in higher posters, because most of the time that just isn't the correct answer
Maybe down the line that will become a thing, if people like jagged don't just end up dead or correct at some point

Anyways I'll be back later, work for 6 hours

JJJ is actually an interesting case. Usually I suspect something is off if someone is obvtown and they still aren't shot by the mafia night after night, but in this case the mafia do have a legitimate reason to leave JJJ alive because of how much his role is a liability in endgame. Like especially because it's a plurality vote, so they can't end the day early. For example let's say a mafia member gets into F3 with JJJ and another townie. Even if they are 100% outed, if the other townie isn't around during EoD (which can easily happen with RL schedules getting in the way through nobody's fault), then the mafia member can simply order JJJ to vote the other townie and then vote them for the win.

I'm not 100% sure how to manage this because it's a fairly unprecedented effect in my time playing mafia but I suspect that this being the case means that we should put less weight on the "X hasn't died yet, why?" line of reasoning when it comes to tinfoils involving JJJ

Alison wrote: ↑Sat Jul 11, 2020 1:01 pm It's possible I'm overvaluing how powerful the effect is, since if the other townie is around it's negated and it's pure luck whether or not they are around. But it could just as easily be F5 and one of the two other townies are not around. Or F7 and one of the three other townies aren't around. What I know for sure is that if I was mafia I'd be tempted to leave JJJ alive to the endgame to abuse his post restriction and if I can think that then the mafia can think that as well

Hally wrote: ↑Sat Jul 11, 2020 1:06 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sat Jul 11, 2020 5:21 am I think Alison looks authentic on this page.

i agree

Hally wrote: ↑Sat Jul 11, 2020 1:15 pm @Epignosis who is bad and why?

have you called anyone scum this game yet?

Long Con wrote: ↑Sat Jul 11, 2020 1:19 pm

Alison wrote: ↑Sat Jul 11, 2020 1:01 pm It's possible I'm overvaluing how powerful the effect is, since if the other townie is around it's negated and it's pure luck whether or not they are around. But it could just as easily be F5 and one of the two other townies are not around. Or F7 and one of the three other townies aren't around. What I know for sure is that if I was mafia I'd be tempted to leave JJJ alive to the endgame to abuse his post restriction and if I can think that then the mafia can think that as well

Let's make a rule: if you are town, you may not command JJJ's vote.

Alison wrote: ↑Sat Jul 11, 2020 1:20 pm

Long Con wrote: ↑Sat Jul 11, 2020 1:19 pm

Alison wrote: ↑Sat Jul 11, 2020 1:01 pm It's possible I'm overvaluing how powerful the effect is, since if the other townie is around it's negated and it's pure luck whether or not they are around. But it could just as easily be F5 and one of the two other townies are not around. Or F7 and one of the three other townies aren't around. What I know for sure is that if I was mafia I'd be tempted to leave JJJ alive to the endgame to abuse his post restriction and if I can think that then the mafia can think that as well

Let's make a rule: if you are town, you may not command JJJ's vote.

yeah but if it's endgame and the other town isn't around during EoD there's nothing anyone can do if the mafia want to force JJJ to do stuff

that's why it's a massive liability

Alison wrote: ↑Sat Jul 11, 2020 1:19 pm

Hally wrote: ↑Sat Jul 11, 2020 1:06 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sat Jul 11, 2020 5:21 am I think Alison looks authentic on this page.

i agree

my theory is that it's because I'm not puting as much effort into formatting and punctuating my posts which makes my posts look like they're streaming directly from my mind and not structured or planned out. I will experiment with doing this more in order to get townread for free in my next few games until people get used to it and I no longer get towncred for it

Long Con wrote: ↑Sat Jul 11, 2020 1:19 pm

Hally wrote: ↑Sat Jul 11, 2020 1:15 pm @Epignosis who is bad and why?

have you called anyone scum this game yet?

He made a short list and posted it, and when Wisp asked him recently who the Mafia are, he reposted it.

Hally wrote: ↑Sat Jul 11, 2020 1:15 pm @Epignosis who is bad and why?

have you called anyone scum this game yet?

Epignosis wrote: ↑Sat Jul 11, 2020 1:30 pm

Hally wrote: ↑Sat Jul 11, 2020 1:15 pm @Epignosis who is bad and why?

have you called anyone scum this game yet?

Not really. I'm working the other way around.

I have no reason to believe DrWilgy or TonyStarkPrime are good. Colin has shown more effort. I looked through TonyStarkPrime's posts to figure out why he's voting Colin and I didn't find any answer in his posts. I don't believe Alison's treatment of me is genuine. That is my group right now.

Why should Alison not be in this group?

Hally wrote: ↑Sat Jul 11, 2020 1:35 pm i honestly would rather pawn have votes over wilgy and colin but im not gonna cry if those two get it instead

i think im most actively sus of pawn though

colins posts arent terrible imo and wilgy is a nonentity