The Syndicate

Posted: **Mon Nov 20, 2023 11:16 pm**

Gira wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2023 11:11 pm
leetic wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2023 11:06 pm We have 2 PRs flipped and 2 VTs flipped, alongside two other claimed PRs. The exact ratio of PR/V is unclear, still it's probably unlikely we are dealing with Heist levels of PR stinginess.
dunno wouldn't be shocked if it's a relatively low # of town PRs given the severed mechanic is probably also part of the calculation

"at least a substantial portion of the players will have power roles", according to the signups thread. Although what is meant by "substantial" is unclear

Posted: **Mon Nov 20, 2023 11:18 pm**

pyxxy wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2023 11:12 pm
leetic wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2023 10:22 pm I tried to track tedxtr since 1. that was the only track that would be guaranteed to give me information (or so I thought) and 2. given some of WW's EoD posting I thought it would be helpful to resolve the slot, especially as tedxtr doesn't have much going for them besides their claim. Oh well
what did you mean by guaranteed

I was guaranteed to either get information on who he targeted, or that he targeted no one at all (which would still be information given that he claimed PR). Every other slot is more of a gamble as to whether I'd hit VT. Except Windward I guess, but why would I want to track Windward

Posted: **Mon Nov 20, 2023 11:19 pm**

leetic wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2023 11:18 pm
pyxxy wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2023 11:12 pm
leetic wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2023 10:22 pm I tried to track tedxtr since 1. that was the only track that would be guaranteed to give me information (or so I thought) and 2. given some of WW's EoD posting I thought it would be helpful to resolve the slot, especially as tedxtr doesn't have much going for them besides their claim. Oh well
what did you mean by guaranteed
I was guaranteed to either get information on who he targeted, or that he targeted no one at all (which would still be information given that he claimed PR). Every other slot is more of a gamble as to whether I'd hit VT. Except Windward I guess, but why would I want to track Windward

but unfortunately you got rb'd

Posted: **Mon Nov 20, 2023 11:20 pm**

Especially as Windward will self-resolve, as they'll be able to claim their target to the other thread, and when someone from the other thread comes here we'll know

Posted: **Mon Nov 20, 2023 11:21 pm**

pyxxy wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2023 11:19 pm
leetic wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2023 11:18 pm
pyxxy wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2023 11:12 pm
leetic wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2023 10:22 pm I tried to track tedxtr since 1. that was the only track that would be guaranteed to give me information (or so I thought) and 2. given some of WW's EoD posting I thought it would be helpful to resolve the slot, especially as tedxtr doesn't have much going for them besides their claim. Oh well
what did you mean by guaranteed
I was guaranteed to either get information on who he targeted, or that he targeted no one at all (which would still be information given that he claimed PR). Every other slot is more of a gamble as to whether I'd hit VT. Except Windward I guess, but why would I want to track Windward
but unfortunately you got rb'd

You don't say?

Posted: **Mon Nov 20, 2023 11:25 pm**

leetic wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2023 11:21 pm
pyxxy wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2023 11:19 pm
leetic wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2023 11:18 pm
pyxxy wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2023 11:12 pm
leetic wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2023 10:22 pm I tried to track tedxtr since 1. that was the only track that would be guaranteed to give me information (or so I thought) and 2. given some of WW's EoD posting I thought it would be helpful to resolve the slot, especially as tedxtr doesn't have much going for them besides their claim. Oh well
what did you mean by guaranteed
I was guaranteed to either get information on who he targeted, or that he targeted no one at all (which would still be information given that he claimed PR). Every other slot is more of a gamble as to whether I'd hit VT. Except Windward I guess, but why would I want to track Windward
but unfortunately you got rb'd
You don't say?

you can act rude and indignant all you want

with the blitz that started this phase, people are going to be confused and skip things and want summaries, and I want to make sure I get it right

Posted: **Mon Nov 20, 2023 11:26 pm**

pyxxy wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2023 11:25 pm
leetic wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2023 11:21 pm
pyxxy wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2023 11:19 pm
leetic wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2023 11:18 pm
pyxxy wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2023 11:12 pm
leetic wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2023 10:22 pm I tried to track tedxtr since 1. that was the only track that would be guaranteed to give me information (or so I thought) and 2. given some of WW's EoD posting I thought it would be helpful to resolve the slot, especially as tedxtr doesn't have much going for them besides their claim. Oh well
what did you mean by guaranteed
I was guaranteed to either get information on who he targeted, or that he targeted no one at all (which would still be information given that he claimed PR). Every other slot is more of a gamble as to whether I'd hit VT. Except Windward I guess, but why would I want to track Windward
but unfortunately you got rb'd
You don't say?
you can act rude and indignant all you want

with the blitz that started this phase, people are going to be confused and skip things and want summaries, and I want to make sure I get it right

You're willing to read back in my ISO yet skip the like five times I claimed I was roleblocked?

Posted: **Mon Nov 20, 2023 11:27 pm**

pyxxy wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2023 11:25 pm
leetic wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2023 11:21 pm
pyxxy wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2023 11:19 pm
leetic wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2023 11:18 pm
pyxxy wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2023 11:12 pm
leetic wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2023 10:22 pm I tried to track tedxtr since 1. that was the only track that would be guaranteed to give me information (or so I thought) and 2. given some of WW's EoD posting I thought it would be helpful to resolve the slot, especially as tedxtr doesn't have much going for them besides their claim. Oh well
what did you mean by guaranteed
I was guaranteed to either get information on who he targeted, or that he targeted no one at all (which would still be information given that he claimed PR). Every other slot is more of a gamble as to whether I'd hit VT. Except Windward I guess, but why would I want to track Windward
but unfortunately you got rb'd
You don't say?
you can act rude and indignant all you want

with the blitz that started this phase, people are going to be confused and skip things and want summaries, and I want to make sure I get it right

Anyway, you should know by now I'm not a viable push, so besides Ranmilia who do you think is a wolf?

Posted: **Mon Nov 20, 2023 11:32 pm**

Ranmilia wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2023 10:14 pm Yee. o7 Wind

chicken scratch TSP ISO thoughts overnight.

Spoiler: show
TSP ISO thoughts
#285 "wolves in nutella brad monroe scotty" in other thread
early back and forths with leetic, abigail
#483 i'm bad at the game
randomly townreads pyxxy when gira/pyxxy call him scummy
asks me about pyxxy
shades me shading dizzy
#671 says i should not have a serious wolfread on dizzy
claims not to realize abigail asked me the question...
#728 calls gira most likely wolf when i press him
"we're about to chop rondo, right"
#1166 votes wind, "convinced myself against the leetic vote" what leetic vote???
#1180: "Here’s the situation: not all is right. We’re about to limp into the stupidest looking bereft chop I’ve ever seen. It’s probably rand and there are somewhat good reasons not to do that. So then, who’s in this game who should know better? I promise I didn’t just immediately jump to the two voters on Bereft for the record, I think that looks slightly towny. Leetic seems to have lost a bit of the edge, can’t tell why. WWA is posting a lot but has no thread control nor have they attempted to wrest it. I won’t vote for Mac or dizzy day 1. Ted seems alright. Mac’s defending Gira. I won’t vote Rondo D1 for opposite reasons. Ran and Robyn are self resolving."
then "can't bring himself to think leetic is a wolf"
"if we are going to roll the dice beter to do it on abigail imo"
calls abi/pyxxy the standard d1s that don't have votes
opposes consolidating on bereft
keeps naming leetic/abigail/gira in interactions
responds to dizzy disavowing setting up a ran/dizzy dichotomy
votes robyn claims "going with the flow", says ted not a good choice today.
-- d2
claims he would have left his vote off wagon, prob on abigail or "maybe" dizzy
claims dizzy looks better, abby looks bad
#2124 doubles down on abi attack
has the bad push on me
"Could it be that Mac was killed because he was wrong, not because he was right?" lol
then throws out Gira/Ran/x team
"Five flips are dizzy rondo bereft ran and Abigail narrowly over Ted before Leetic asks"
pyxxy asks if i have wolf equity with dizzy, tsp says no
then kinda shuts down
"Actually like ok yeah Rondo / Abby / Bereft / Dizzy is probably a two wolf group"
and then all seems noncommittal towards eod and ghosts the actual eod
Conclusions: prob exactly 1 in bereft/dizzymade and the other in pyxxy/leetic, pretty heavily leaning pyxxy since not making eod is pretty congruous with no one trying to save TSP.
Rondo, Gira town, Abi town unless world's best theatre.

[VOTE: Pyxxy] aubergine

okay

so then the other wolves just didn't bother to try and save me during that ~3 hours where I was lead wagon and afk and then posting the forum equivalent of gruel?

just want to make sure I understand your worldview here

"Actually like ok yeah Rondo / Abby / Bereft / Dizzy is probably a two wolf group"

what's the context for this note?

because it seems unclear if it's about me or not, when taken as four lines together

pyxxy asks if i have wolf equity with dizzy, tsp says no
then kinda shuts down
"Actually like ok yeah Rondo / Abby / Bereft / Dizzy is probably a two wolf group"
and then all seems noncommittal towards eod and ghosts the actual eod

and like, I'm not sure I even wrote rondo's name yesterday, based on skimming my own iso just now

Posted: **Mon Nov 20, 2023 11:32 pm**

I'm here if people have questions or actual things to discuss. Bereft, where you at?

Posted: **Mon Nov 20, 2023 11:33 pm**

leetic wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2023 11:26 pm
pyxxy wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2023 11:25 pm
leetic wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2023 11:21 pm
pyxxy wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2023 11:19 pm
leetic wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2023 11:18 pm
pyxxy wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2023 11:12 pm
leetic wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2023 10:22 pm I tried to track tedxtr since 1. that was the only track that would be guaranteed to give me information (or so I thought) and 2. given some of WW's EoD posting I thought it would be helpful to resolve the slot, especially as tedxtr doesn't have much going for them besides their claim. Oh well
what did you mean by guaranteed
I was guaranteed to either get information on who he targeted, or that he targeted no one at all (which would still be information given that he claimed PR). Every other slot is more of a gamble as to whether I'd hit VT. Except Windward I guess, but why would I want to track Windward
but unfortunately you got rb'd
You don't say?
you can act rude and indignant all you want

with the blitz that started this phase, people are going to be confused and skip things and want summaries, and I want to make sure I get it right
You're willing to read back in my ISO yet skip the like five times I claimed I was roleblocked?

you again can't be assed to actually read what I wrote

people are going to be confused and skip things and want summaries, and I want to make sure I get it right

only once because no spam! but once doesn't seem to be enough for you

Posted: **Mon Nov 20, 2023 11:36 pm**

pyxxy wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2023 11:32 pm
Ranmilia wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2023 10:14 pm Yee. o7 Wind

chicken scratch TSP ISO thoughts overnight.

Spoiler: show
TSP ISO thoughts
#285 "wolves in nutella brad monroe scotty" in other thread
early back and forths with leetic, abigail
#483 i'm bad at the game
randomly townreads pyxxy when gira/pyxxy call him scummy
asks me about pyxxy
shades me shading dizzy
#671 says i should not have a serious wolfread on dizzy
claims not to realize abigail asked me the question...
#728 calls gira most likely wolf when i press him
"we're about to chop rondo, right"
#1166 votes wind, "convinced myself against the leetic vote" what leetic vote???
#1180: "Here’s the situation: not all is right. We’re about to limp into the stupidest looking bereft chop I’ve ever seen. It’s probably rand and there are somewhat good reasons not to do that. So then, who’s in this game who should know better? I promise I didn’t just immediately jump to the two voters on Bereft for the record, I think that looks slightly towny. Leetic seems to have lost a bit of the edge, can’t tell why. WWA is posting a lot but has no thread control nor have they attempted to wrest it. I won’t vote for Mac or dizzy day 1. Ted seems alright. Mac’s defending Gira. I won’t vote Rondo D1 for opposite reasons. Ran and Robyn are self resolving."
then "can't bring himself to think leetic is a wolf"
"if we are going to roll the dice beter to do it on abigail imo"
calls abi/pyxxy the standard d1s that don't have votes
opposes consolidating on bereft
keeps naming leetic/abigail/gira in interactions
responds to dizzy disavowing setting up a ran/dizzy dichotomy
votes robyn claims "going with the flow", says ted not a good choice today.
-- d2
claims he would have left his vote off wagon, prob on abigail or "maybe" dizzy
claims dizzy looks better, abby looks bad
#2124 doubles down on abi attack
has the bad push on me
"Could it be that Mac was killed because he was wrong, not because he was right?" lol
then throws out Gira/Ran/x team
"Five flips are dizzy rondo bereft ran and Abigail narrowly over Ted before Leetic asks"
pyxxy asks if i have wolf equity with dizzy, tsp says no
then kinda shuts down
"Actually like ok yeah Rondo / Abby / Bereft / Dizzy is probably a two wolf group"
and then all seems noncommittal towards eod and ghosts the actual eod
Conclusions: prob exactly 1 in bereft/dizzymade and the other in pyxxy/leetic, pretty heavily leaning pyxxy since not making eod is pretty congruous with no one trying to save TSP.
Rondo, Gira town, Abi town unless world's best theatre.

[VOTE: Pyxxy] aubergine
okay

so then the other wolves just didn't bother to try and save me during that ~3 hours where I was lead wagon and afk and then posting the forum equivalent of gruel?

just want to make sure I understand your worldview here

"Actually like ok yeah Rondo / Abby / Bereft / Dizzy is probably a two wolf group"
what's the context for this note?

because it seems unclear if it's about me or not, when taken as four lines together

pyxxy asks if i have wolf equity with dizzy, tsp says no
then kinda shuts down
"Actually like ok yeah Rondo / Abby / Bereft / Dizzy is probably a two wolf group"
and then all seems noncommittal towards eod and ghosts the actual eod
and like, I'm not sure I even wrote rondo's name yesterday, based on skimming my own iso just now

My top worldview is you/dizzy/tsp and wolves couldn't get anything going yesterday, yeah. The four names group is a quote from TSP, his last substantial post.

Posted: **Mon Nov 20, 2023 11:38 pm**

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sat Nov 18, 2023 6:52 pm Actually like ok yeah Rondo / Abby / Bereft / Dizzy is probably a two wolf group

Posted: **Mon Nov 20, 2023 11:38 pm**

@Ranmilia what's your breakdown or VCA of the last ~6 hours from D2's EOD?

How did wolf TSP get chopped but wolf pyxxy didn't?

If that's the results wolves wanted, why didn't I just throw a random ass vote on TSP and parade around the ring with my quotes sussing TSP on D1?

such as:

pyxxy wrote: ↑Tue Nov 14, 2023 5:18 pm
Gira wrote: ↑Tue Nov 14, 2023 2:13 pmtsp kinda scummy
uncomfortable mindmeld

I didnt remember tsp being like this, I remember tsp being lhf

pyxxy wrote: ↑Tue Nov 14, 2023 5:46 pm
pyxxy wrote: ↑Tue Nov 14, 2023 5:30 pm
Ranmilia wrote: ↑Tue Nov 14, 2023 3:46 pm I've played with TSP on the ground twice, technically, but in both games he got mech cleared/essentially mech cleared and was only alive with me for one day phase. I've read a few more of his games and every one where he was scum I saw a great disparity, he basically phoned in the game and didn't play or contribute any complex thought at any point. So there is that. I'm sure he has better scum games but that is what forms my baseline. And in this game specifically, he entered posting a lot of stuff about me which is correct and (in my eyes) fairly insightful and beyond anything I've seen him do as a wolf.

... granted that does amount to "he's buttering up me specifically and talking about me specifically." So there is that too.
maybe my memory is wrong

brb
my memory doesn't seem to be wrong

hotdog fingers aka the example TSP brought up, lowposted through D1
search.php?keywords=&t=2508&author=Tony ... sf=msgonly

GoC 2022, lowposted but idk seems different maybe
secret playerlist was secret playerlist and posted a bit more but not as seriously as here

TSP what's a scum game that you're proud of

pyxxy wrote: ↑Wed Nov 15, 2023 2:50 am
robyn wrote: ↑Wed Nov 15, 2023 2:46 am
pyxxy wrote: ↑Wed Nov 15, 2023 2:38 am
Gira wrote: ↑Wed Nov 15, 2023 2:32 am
pyxxy wrote: ↑Wed Nov 15, 2023 2:29 am
Gira wrote: ↑Wed Nov 15, 2023 1:43 am by all accounts dizzy is an excellent and highly motivated player of the mafia alignment, so i don't particularly think him being "flaccid" is a valid scumtell. I struggle to believe he chooses to start a game off by lowposting and taking potshots at one player as mafia. I have, on the other hand, seen him get miskilled for being "underwhelming".

neon is, uh, i think town in that she is doing her usual stream of consciousness and the thoughts that come out seem believable even if some of the reasoning is bizarre
what are the odds wolf gira makes this post

below rand, methinks, unless there's a partner in dizzy/abi. which I have no reason to suspect
why do you think that?
there's been too much townreading so far this game

in so far as, if it's accurate, it's going to form a towncore e.g. Abigail will pop off on D2/D3, robyn will form a solve and tunnel it, I'll accidentally vote mafia and clear myself

ranmilla was one person who actually tried to shake things up re: reads, but everyone not getting the questions thing is pretty funny and humanizing

in context consider this a reaction to my previous game where I was scum and I feel like a big mistake I made was letting town find each other fairly easily

the thread feels quite chummy and I think it's generally a good thing so I would expect scum (i restate: no meta on you on this) to want to stir things more or just sit things out for a bit and let lowposters be afk and then maybe jump in with ~24h to go to start some topics, idk
if you had to list 3 names of scum who would they be
tsp ranmilla and unsure

ted feels like a lazy pick / ignoring slank cover but maybe ted

and then opening D2

pyxxy wrote: ↑Sat Nov 18, 2023 4:57 am so does this mean I was right about TSP talking too much

Posted: **Mon Nov 20, 2023 11:38 pm**

pyxxy wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2023 11:38 pm How did wolf TSP get chopped but wolf pyxxy didn't?

consider this answered, ty

Posted: **Mon Nov 20, 2023 11:40 pm**

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sat Nov 18, 2023 6:49 pm it’s probably complete wifom but most wolf teams probably wouldn’t triple stack on Robyn so off wins by a hair

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sat Nov 18, 2023 6:50 pm Now if Dizzy is a wolf that’s kinda out the window because that vote wasn’t really placed with intention

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sat Nov 18, 2023 6:52 pm Actually like ok yeah Rondo / Abby / Bereft / Dizzy is probably a two wolf group

Three consecutive TSP posts. So if he was talking about the people off robyn, why did he list Dyslexicon over pyxxy (or why did he exclude pyxxy, if putting Dyslexicon on the list despite them being on robyn was intentional)? The other three names on the list are correct

Posted: **Mon Nov 20, 2023 11:40 pm**

Rondo and others said that I play scum by bussing

(I disagree, I just keep getting paired with nook! but for the sake of being annoying....)

and I seem to have set up myself to bus TSP

and just......didn't?

sorry, sorry, it's all WIFOM, especially when it comes to pyxxy /s

Posted: **Mon Nov 20, 2023 11:42 pm**

pyxxy wrote: ↑Tue Nov 14, 2023 5:46 pm
pyxxy wrote: ↑Tue Nov 14, 2023 5:30 pm
Ranmilia wrote: ↑Tue Nov 14, 2023 3:46 pm I've played with TSP on the ground twice, technically, but in both games he got mech cleared/essentially mech cleared and was only alive with me for one day phase. I've read a few more of his games and every one where he was scum I saw a great disparity, he basically phoned in the game and didn't play or contribute any complex thought at any point. So there is that. I'm sure he has better scum games but that is what forms my baseline. And in this game specifically, he entered posting a lot of stuff about me which is correct and (in my eyes) fairly insightful and beyond anything I've seen him do as a wolf.

... granted that does amount to "he's buttering up me specifically and talking about me specifically." So there is that too.
maybe my memory is wrong

brb
my memory doesn't seem to be wrong

hotdog fingers aka the example TSP brought up, lowposted through D1
search.php?keywords=&t=2508&author=Tony ... sf=msgonly

GoC 2022, lowposted but idk seems different maybe
secret playerlist was secret playerlist and posted a bit more but not as seriously as here

TSP what's a scum game that you're proud of

this quote goes

razy, y'all

I just had to re-post in its own post

@Gira come on, you gotta give pyxxy a little treat for this one

Posted: **Mon Nov 20, 2023 11:43 pm**

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sun Nov 19, 2023 7:52 pm Wind do you have thoughts about the quick emergence of a wagon on pyxxy

TSP did spend what time he had at EoD trying to deflect from a pyxxy wagon. Probably the one thing in Dyslexicon's favor as they were really the only viable wagon besides TSP/pyxxy at the time. I mean, unless TSP really thought he could get the RDB wagon going again.

Posted: **Mon Nov 20, 2023 11:43 pm**

pyxxy wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2023 11:38 pm
pyxxy wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2023 11:38 pm How did wolf TSP get chopped but wolf pyxxy didn't?
consider this answered, ty

Because town decided to chop TSP over pyxxy?
I don't understand the point here.

Posted: **Mon Nov 20, 2023 11:44 pm**

pyxxy wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2023 11:40 pm Rondo and others said that I play scum by bussing

(I disagree, I just keep getting paired with nook! but for the sake of being annoying....)

and I seem to have set up myself to bus TSP

and just......didn't?

sorry, sorry, it's all WIFOM, especially when it comes to pyxxy /s

This kinda goes away if you and Dizzy are w/w though

Posted: **Mon Nov 20, 2023 11:45 pm**

Bereft wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2023 11:43 pm
pyxxy wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2023 11:38 pm
pyxxy wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2023 11:38 pm How did wolf TSP get chopped but wolf pyxxy didn't?
consider this answered, ty
Because town decided to chop TSP over pyxxy?
I don't understand the point here.

Also, TSP had the "advantage" of having a secret vote against him, making it that much more difficult for an opposing wagon to compete

Posted: **Mon Nov 20, 2023 11:47 pm**

Granted, my thoughts on the Dyslexicon slot will probably be more determined by how their replacement does. I also think that Abby should be pushed at least a little this phase.

Posted: **Mon Nov 20, 2023 11:48 pm**

pyxxy wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2023 11:42 pm
pyxxy wrote: ↑Tue Nov 14, 2023 5:46 pm
pyxxy wrote: ↑Tue Nov 14, 2023 5:30 pm
Ranmilia wrote: ↑Tue Nov 14, 2023 3:46 pm I've played with TSP on the ground twice, technically, but in both games he got mech cleared/essentially mech cleared and was only alive with me for one day phase. I've read a few more of his games and every one where he was scum I saw a great disparity, he basically phoned in the game and didn't play or contribute any complex thought at any point. So there is that. I'm sure he has better scum games but that is what forms my baseline. And in this game specifically, he entered posting a lot of stuff about me which is correct and (in my eyes) fairly insightful and beyond anything I've seen him do as a wolf.

... granted that does amount to "he's buttering up me specifically and talking about me specifically." So there is that too.
maybe my memory is wrong

brb
my memory doesn't seem to be wrong

hotdog fingers aka the example TSP brought up, lowposted through D1
search.php?keywords=&t=2508&author=Tony ... sf=msgonly

GoC 2022, lowposted but idk seems different maybe
secret playerlist was secret playerlist and posted a bit more but not as seriously as here

TSP what's a scum game that you're proud of
this quote goes razy, y'all

I just had to re-post in its own post

@Gira come on, you gotta give pyxxy a little treat for this one

i dunno am i supposed to give cred for that when you did nothing with that? because that looks like it can easily be standard distancing

Posted: **Mon Nov 20, 2023 11:49 pm**

pyxxy wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2023 11:38 pm @Ranmilia what's your breakdown or VCA of the last ~6 hours from D2's EOD?

How did wolf TSP get chopped but wolf pyxxy didn't?

If that's the results wolves wanted, why didn't I just throw a random ass vote on TSP and parade around the ring with my quotes sussing TSP on D1?

I mean

yes, exactly

why didn't you vote TSP after sussing him d1? Instead you parked on dizzy.

And yeah dizzy is probably also a wolf but you're yelling about doming me for... going back and forth and also wanting dizzy and tsp out??

This is the same sort of opposites land stuff TSP was pushing.

Posted: **Mon Nov 20, 2023 11:49 pm**

There being two in pyxxy/Dyslexicon/Abby seems like the easy solve, but it just might be easy enough to be true. If there's one who voted TSP it would probably be Bereft or Ranmilia, but I doubt they're w/w so I think it's almost guaranteed that we have a wolf in the previous group.

Posted: **Mon Nov 20, 2023 11:50 pm**

Bereft wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2023 11:43 pm
pyxxy wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2023 11:38 pm
pyxxy wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2023 11:38 pm How did wolf TSP get chopped but wolf pyxxy didn't?
consider this answered, ty
Because town decided to chop TSP over pyxxy?
I don't understand the point here.

I think I overheated with this one, idk and I'm sorry but it's just another "it fits in my brain" situation

it's that given wagons were like, 3-3-2 for a while there? tell me if I'm wrong I caught up but ofc I didn't see poll in real time. my point is like, wolves were lost at EOD but why would TSP and I not just cross for bussing points, especially when I got brought into the POE only during the second half of the day

which would imply that I was otherwise, as TSP said, "above water". and like if Dizzy is the third, then wolves _desperately_ need a deep wolf. TSP and dizzy are already wagons. why not go all in on bussing one or the other and let wolf pyxxy (me) gain massive credit?

that's kinda the perspective I'm having here

Posted: **Mon Nov 20, 2023 11:51 pm**

RDB just looks really good from that EoD. Not only TSP being on a vanity wagon at EoD, but RDB had the opportunity to make Dyslexicon go down or at least be equal with TSP but chose TSP in the end. Even if TSP and Dyslexicon are w/w, wolves would probably want to get rid of the slanker.

Posted: **Mon Nov 20, 2023 11:51 pm**

leetic wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2023 11:44 pm
pyxxy wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2023 11:40 pm Rondo and others said that I play scum by bussing

(I disagree, I just keep getting paired with nook! but for the sake of being annoying....)

and I seem to have set up myself to bus TSP

and just......didn't?

sorry, sorry, it's all WIFOM, especially when it comes to pyxxy /s
This kinda goes away if you and Dizzy are w/w though

if I'm w/w with Dizzy, am I not the best chance at wolves winning? and wouldn't the plan be to let me do mech things, strongly guess from ~midday that Ilario and TSP are scum-tied-together, and then I get credit from the bus _while also not being good enough at actual solving to eat the nk_?*

*this got invalidated later with WWA claiming

Posted: **Mon Nov 20, 2023 11:51 pm**

Ranmilia wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2023 11:49 pm
pyxxy wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2023 11:38 pm @Ranmilia what's your breakdown or VCA of the last ~6 hours from D2's EOD?

How did wolf TSP get chopped but wolf pyxxy didn't?

If that's the results wolves wanted, why didn't I just throw a random ass vote on TSP and parade around the ring with my quotes sussing TSP on D1?

I mean

yes, exactly

why didn't you vote TSP after sussing him d1? Instead you parked on dizzy.

And yeah dizzy is probably also a wolf but you're yelling about doming me for... going back and forth and also wanting dizzy and tsp out??

This is the same sort of opposites land stuff TSP was pushing.

TSP was pushing what exactly?

Posted: **Mon Nov 20, 2023 11:52 pm**

leetic wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2023 11:45 pm
Bereft wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2023 11:43 pm
pyxxy wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2023 11:38 pm
pyxxy wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2023 11:38 pm How did wolf TSP get chopped but wolf pyxxy didn't?
consider this answered, ty
Because town decided to chop TSP over pyxxy?
I don't understand the point here.
Also, TSP had the "advantage" of having a secret vote against him, making it that much more difficult for an opposing wagon to compete

another reason to for wolf pyxxy to bus TSP

ty leetic

Posted: **Mon Nov 20, 2023 11:52 pm**

pyxxy wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2023 11:51 pm
leetic wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2023 11:44 pm
pyxxy wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2023 11:40 pm Rondo and others said that I play scum by bussing

(I disagree, I just keep getting paired with nook! but for the sake of being annoying....)

and I seem to have set up myself to bus TSP

and just......didn't?

sorry, sorry, it's all WIFOM, especially when it comes to pyxxy /s
This kinda goes away if you and Dizzy are w/w though
if I'm w/w with Dizzy, am I not the best chance at wolves winning? and wouldn't the plan be to let me do mech things, strongly guess from ~midday that Ilario and TSP are scum-tied-together, and then I get credit from the bus _while also not being good enough at actual solving to eat the nk_?*

*this got invalidated later with WWA claiming

If Dizzy and TSP are w/w, wolves would probably want to get rid of the slanker if they had to choose

Posted: **Mon Nov 20, 2023 11:55 pm**

Gira wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2023 11:48 pm
pyxxy wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2023 11:42 pm
pyxxy wrote: ↑Tue Nov 14, 2023 5:46 pm
pyxxy wrote: ↑Tue Nov 14, 2023 5:30 pm
Ranmilia wrote: ↑Tue Nov 14, 2023 3:46 pm I've played with TSP on the ground twice, technically, but in both games he got mech cleared/essentially mech cleared and was only alive with me for one day phase. I've read a few more of his games and every one where he was scum I saw a great disparity, he basically phoned in the game and didn't play or contribute any complex thought at any point. So there is that. I'm sure he has better scum games but that is what forms my baseline. And in this game specifically, he entered posting a lot of stuff about me which is correct and (in my eyes) fairly insightful and beyond anything I've seen him do as a wolf.

... granted that does amount to "he's buttering up me specifically and talking about me specifically." So there is that too.
maybe my memory is wrong

brb
my memory doesn't seem to be wrong

hotdog fingers aka the example TSP brought up, lowposted through D1
search.php?keywords=&t=2508&author=Tony ... sf=msgonly

GoC 2022, lowposted but idk seems different maybe
secret playerlist was secret playerlist and posted a bit more but not as seriously as here

TSP what's a scum game that you're proud of
this quote goes razy, y'all

I just had to re-post in its own post

@Gira come on, you gotta give pyxxy a little treat for this one
i dunno am i supposed to give cred for that when you did nothing with that? because that looks like it can easily be standard distancing

that's fair

but I think if I distance, I vote there

like how I did with nook in Beans Mafia

nook and TSP are similar liabilities to scum

in Beans I didn't commit to the bus and should have lost that game for it

I think scum me comes into this gave favoring a stronger and more deadly bussing, if presented with a similar situation

Posted: **Mon Nov 20, 2023 11:57 pm**

leetic wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2023 11:52 pm
pyxxy wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2023 11:51 pm
leetic wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2023 11:44 pm
pyxxy wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2023 11:40 pm Rondo and others said that I play scum by bussing

(I disagree, I just keep getting paired with nook! but for the sake of being annoying....)

and I seem to have set up myself to bus TSP

and just......didn't?

sorry, sorry, it's all WIFOM, especially when it comes to pyxxy /s
This kinda goes away if you and Dizzy are w/w though
if I'm w/w with Dizzy, am I not the best chance at wolves winning? and wouldn't the plan be to let me do mech things, strongly guess from ~midday that Ilario and TSP are scum-tied-together, and then I get credit from the bus _while also not being good enough at actual solving to eat the nk_?*

*this got invalidated later with WWA claiming
If Dizzy and TSP are w/w, wolves would probably want to get rid of the slanker if they had to choose

And you also have to consider that TSP was a PR. Especially since town had an open roleblocker, TSP could have protected a wolf from being potentially mechanically outed, which the wolves could definitely see as being more valuable than whatever Dyslexicon had to offer.

Posted: **Mon Nov 20, 2023 11:57 pm**

oh wait, leetic can understand this perspective way better since they were in Beans

@/leetic, reading time ^

Posted: **Mon Nov 20, 2023 11:58 pm**

oh dang that's a good point about TSP being a PR

Posted: **Mon Nov 20, 2023 11:58 pm**

pyxxy wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2023 11:51 pm
Ranmilia wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2023 11:49 pm
pyxxy wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2023 11:38 pm @Ranmilia what's your breakdown or VCA of the last ~6 hours from D2's EOD?

How did wolf TSP get chopped but wolf pyxxy didn't?

If that's the results wolves wanted, why didn't I just throw a random ass vote on TSP and parade around the ring with my quotes sussing TSP on D1?

I mean

yes, exactly

why didn't you vote TSP after sussing him d1? Instead you parked on dizzy.

And yeah dizzy is probably also a wolf but you're yelling about doming me for... going back and forth and also wanting dizzy and tsp out??

This is the same sort of opposites land stuff TSP was pushing.
TSP was pushing what exactly?

TSP's abi/ran/gira stuff throughout the game.

You're in the same breath calling me a mastermind wolf hard bussing dizzy/tsp and calling yourself town because you can't possibly be a mastermind wolf bussing dizzy/tsp because you didn't go tsp when chips were down.

Like what even is your thought process here?

Posted: **Mon Nov 20, 2023 11:59 pm**

pyxxy wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2023 11:55 pm
Gira wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2023 11:48 pm
pyxxy wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2023 11:42 pm
pyxxy wrote: ↑Tue Nov 14, 2023 5:46 pm
pyxxy wrote: ↑Tue Nov 14, 2023 5:30 pm
Ranmilia wrote: ↑Tue Nov 14, 2023 3:46 pm I've played with TSP on the ground twice, technically, but in both games he got mech cleared/essentially mech cleared and was only alive with me for one day phase. I've read a few more of his games and every one where he was scum I saw a great disparity, he basically phoned in the game and didn't play or contribute any complex thought at any point. So there is that. I'm sure he has better scum games but that is what forms my baseline. And in this game specifically, he entered posting a lot of stuff about me which is correct and (in my eyes) fairly insightful and beyond anything I've seen him do as a wolf.

... granted that does amount to "he's buttering up me specifically and talking about me specifically." So there is that too.
maybe my memory is wrong

brb
my memory doesn't seem to be wrong

hotdog fingers aka the example TSP brought up, lowposted through D1
search.php?keywords=&t=2508&author=Tony ... sf=msgonly

GoC 2022, lowposted but idk seems different maybe
secret playerlist was secret playerlist and posted a bit more but not as seriously as here

TSP what's a scum game that you're proud of
this quote goes razy, y'all

I just had to re-post in its own post

@Gira come on, you gotta give pyxxy a little treat for this one
i dunno am i supposed to give cred for that when you did nothing with that? because that looks like it can easily be standard distancing
that's fair

but I think if I distance, I vote there

like how I did with nook in Beans Mafia

nook and TSP are similar liabilities to scum

in Beans I didn't commit to the bus and should have lost that game for it

I think scum me comes into this gave favoring a stronger and more deadly bussing, if presented with a similar situation

In Beans, you voted the slanker. So why are you arguing you would have voted TSP over slanker Dyslexicon if the three of you were wolves?

Posted: **Tue Nov 21, 2023 12:01 am**

Ranmilia wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2023 11:58 pm
pyxxy wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2023 11:51 pm
Ranmilia wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2023 11:49 pm
pyxxy wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2023 11:38 pm @Ranmilia what's your breakdown or VCA of the last ~6 hours from D2's EOD?

How did wolf TSP get chopped but wolf pyxxy didn't?

If that's the results wolves wanted, why didn't I just throw a random ass vote on TSP and parade around the ring with my quotes sussing TSP on D1?

I mean

yes, exactly

why didn't you vote TSP after sussing him d1? Instead you parked on dizzy.

And yeah dizzy is probably also a wolf but you're yelling about doming me for... going back and forth and also wanting dizzy and tsp out??

This is the same sort of opposites land stuff TSP was pushing.
TSP was pushing what exactly?
TSP's abi/ran/gira stuff throughout the game.

You're in the same breath calling me a mastermind wolf hard bussing dizzy/tsp and calling yourself town because you can't possibly be a mastermind wolf bussing dizzy/tsp because you didn't go tsp when chips were down.

Like what even is your thought process here?

um

I very much am pointing out that you didn't hard bus TSP

you shaded him but when it mattered, you hedged and wanted Dizzy to die instead

Posted: **Tue Nov 21, 2023 12:02 am**

leetic wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2023 11:59 pm
pyxxy wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2023 11:55 pm
Gira wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2023 11:48 pm
pyxxy wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2023 11:42 pm
pyxxy wrote: ↑Tue Nov 14, 2023 5:46 pm
pyxxy wrote: ↑Tue Nov 14, 2023 5:30 pm
Ranmilia wrote: ↑Tue Nov 14, 2023 3:46 pm I've played with TSP on the ground twice, technically, but in both games he got mech cleared/essentially mech cleared and was only alive with me for one day phase. I've read a few more of his games and every one where he was scum I saw a great disparity, he basically phoned in the game and didn't play or contribute any complex thought at any point. So there is that. I'm sure he has better scum games but that is what forms my baseline. And in this game specifically, he entered posting a lot of stuff about me which is correct and (in my eyes) fairly insightful and beyond anything I've seen him do as a wolf.

... granted that does amount to "he's buttering up me specifically and talking about me specifically." So there is that too.
maybe my memory is wrong

brb
my memory doesn't seem to be wrong

hotdog fingers aka the example TSP brought up, lowposted through D1
search.php?keywords=&t=2508&author=Tony ... sf=msgonly

GoC 2022, lowposted but idk seems different maybe
secret playerlist was secret playerlist and posted a bit more but not as seriously as here

TSP what's a scum game that you're proud of
this quote goes razy, y'all

I just had to re-post in its own post

@Gira come on, you gotta give pyxxy a little treat for this one
i dunno am i supposed to give cred for that when you did nothing with that? because that looks like it can easily be standard distancing
that's fair

but I think if I distance, I vote there

like how I did with nook in Beans Mafia

nook and TSP are similar liabilities to scum

in Beans I didn't commit to the bus and should have lost that game for it

I think scum me comes into this gave favoring a stronger and more deadly bussing, if presented with a similar situation
In Beans, you voted the slanker. So why are you arguing you would have voted TSP over slanker Dyslexicon if the three of you were wolves?

my point is

why didn't TSP bus with me in this game, if that's the scum team here

Posted: **Tue Nov 21, 2023 12:04 am**

scum team gets into the thick of EOD and seems to have lost control of the thread

all three are being voted up

why do TSP and I not both just consolidate on Dizzy, WIFOM aside, and score town points for it

especially after I just played a game I should have lost for _not burying the slanker teammate_

that's my point

you played that game with me, you understand my perspective better than anyone else can here

Posted: **Tue Nov 21, 2023 12:05 am**

pyxxy wrote: ↑Tue Nov 21, 2023 12:02 am
leetic wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2023 11:59 pm
pyxxy wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2023 11:55 pm
Gira wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2023 11:48 pm
pyxxy wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2023 11:42 pm
pyxxy wrote: ↑Tue Nov 14, 2023 5:46 pm
pyxxy wrote: ↑Tue Nov 14, 2023 5:30 pm

maybe my memory is wrong

brb
my memory doesn't seem to be wrong

hotdog fingers aka the example TSP brought up, lowposted through D1
search.php?keywords=&t=2508&author=Tony ... sf=msgonly

GoC 2022, lowposted but idk seems different maybe
secret playerlist was secret playerlist and posted a bit more but not as seriously as here

TSP what's a scum game that you're proud of
this quote goes razy, y'all

I just had to re-post in its own post

@Gira come on, you gotta give pyxxy a little treat for this one
i dunno am i supposed to give cred for that when you did nothing with that? because that looks like it can easily be standard distancing
that's fair

but I think if I distance, I vote there

like how I did with nook in Beans Mafia

nook and TSP are similar liabilities to scum

in Beans I didn't commit to the bus and should have lost that game for it

I think scum me comes into this gave favoring a stronger and more deadly bussing, if presented with a similar situation
In Beans, you voted the slanker. So why are you arguing you would have voted TSP over slanker Dyslexicon if the three of you were wolves?
my point is

why didn't TSP bus with me in this game, if that's the scum team here

They last showed up 90 minutes before EoD, and had their last substantial post a half hour earlier. Interestingly, TSP had kind of hinted at moving towards you

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sun Nov 19, 2023 8:01 pm Pyxxy is still above water in my personal POE but as they say a rising tide sinks some ships

but apparently wasn't able to show up to follow through on that.

Posted: **Tue Nov 21, 2023 12:07 am**

pyxxy wrote: ↑Tue Nov 21, 2023 12:04 am scum team gets into the thick of EOD and seems to have lost control of the thread

all three are being voted up

why do TSP and I not both just consolidate on Dizzy, WIFOM aside, and score town points for it

especially after I just played a game I should have lost for _not burying the slanker teammate_

that's my point

you played that game with me, you understand my perspective better than anyone else can here

Anyway, if you aren't a wolf, do you agree there is at least one wolf in Dizzy/Abby?

Posted: **Tue Nov 21, 2023 12:07 am**

pyxxy wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2023 11:55 pm that's fair

but I think if I distance, I vote there

like how I did with nook in Beans Mafia

nook and TSP are similar liabilities to scum

in Beans I didn't commit to the bus and should have lost that game for it

I think scum me comes into this gave favoring a stronger and more deadly bussing, if presented with a similar situation

you were busy for a lot of the day, right? i legit dunno if you were even around when tsp was a wagon although i see your point

tsp also just flat out did not show for that EOD so "why didn't he bus" doesn't say a whole lot

i still get what you're saying at least broadly though

Posted: **Tue Nov 21, 2023 12:07 am**

pyxxy wrote: ↑Tue Nov 21, 2023 12:01 am
Ranmilia wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2023 11:58 pm
pyxxy wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2023 11:51 pm
Ranmilia wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2023 11:49 pm
pyxxy wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2023 11:38 pm @Ranmilia what's your breakdown or VCA of the last ~6 hours from D2's EOD?

How did wolf TSP get chopped but wolf pyxxy didn't?

If that's the results wolves wanted, why didn't I just throw a random ass vote on TSP and parade around the ring with my quotes sussing TSP on D1?

I mean

yes, exactly

why didn't you vote TSP after sussing him d1? Instead you parked on dizzy.

And yeah dizzy is probably also a wolf but you're yelling about doming me for... going back and forth and also wanting dizzy and tsp out??

This is the same sort of opposites land stuff TSP was pushing.
TSP was pushing what exactly?
TSP's abi/ran/gira stuff throughout the game.

You're in the same breath calling me a mastermind wolf hard bussing dizzy/tsp and calling yourself town because you can't possibly be a mastermind wolf bussing dizzy/tsp because you didn't go tsp when chips were down.

Like what even is your thought process here?
um

I very much am pointing out that you didn't hard bus TSP

you shaded him but when it mattered, you hedged and wanted Dizzy to die instead

1. I am responsible for TSP even being a wagon in the first place.
2. Yes and? I still want that slot dead.
3. which people may not be considering if they weren't there for the EOD: I went back to dizzy offering a fortnite gift card because the eod was so weirdly static to see who would jump. That was an info play. Nobody jumped. I can't prove this to you, and I can't say I never considered going through and killing dizzy if my towns were willing, but on the main I said I was voting with Wind and I meant that.

Posted: **Tue Nov 21, 2023 12:09 am**

@ both of you

wolves generally tell their partners if they're gonna be afk (well, my partners have been nice enough, at least)

if TSP is going ghost in more ways than one, I bury dat ass in one post on my way home from home depot and hope for the best

Posted: **Tue Nov 21, 2023 12:10 am**

leetic wrote: ↑Tue Nov 21, 2023 12:05 am They last showed up 90 minutes before EoD, and had their last substantial post a half hour earlier. Interestingly, TSP had kind of hinted at moving towards you

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sun Nov 19, 2023 8:01 pm Pyxxy is still above water in my personal POE but as they say a rising tide sinks some ships
but apparently wasn't able to show up to follow through on that.

that is the type of post i have seen scum make about their partners where they don't want to bus but don't want to be seen as defending

could just be that pyxxy was a town yeet he didn't want to be voting on though. hard to say.the fact that he initially criticized the wagon as saying "that can't be pure" WAS an attempt to discredit, though.

Posted: **Tue Nov 21, 2023 12:12 am**

Ranmilia wrote: ↑Tue Nov 21, 2023 12:07 am 1. I am responsible for TSP even being a wagon in the first place.

the one who was responsible for tsp going over was wind, anything else is revisionist history, that wagon was dead and she dared people to bring it back.

anyway i'm out for the night so won't be here to respond to further questioning, laters

Posted: **Tue Nov 21, 2023 12:12 am**

leetic wrote: ↑Tue Nov 21, 2023 12:07 am
pyxxy wrote: ↑Tue Nov 21, 2023 12:04 am scum team gets into the thick of EOD and seems to have lost control of the thread

all three are being voted up

why do TSP and I not both just consolidate on Dizzy, WIFOM aside, and score town points for it

especially after I just played a game I should have lost for _not burying the slanker teammate_

that's my point

you played that game with me, you understand my perspective better than anyone else can here
Anyway, if you aren't a wolf, do you agree there is at least one wolf in Dizzy/Abby?

I had to write out names to see if this is just a math test

pyxxy - town

bereft - town
gira - town
leetic - town
Rondo - town
ranmilia - scum

that leaves

dizzy
abigail
ted

I think my answer is yes

Posted: **Tue Nov 21, 2023 12:15 am**

pyxxy wrote: ↑Tue Nov 21, 2023 12:12 am
leetic wrote: ↑Tue Nov 21, 2023 12:07 am
pyxxy wrote: ↑Tue Nov 21, 2023 12:04 am scum team gets into the thick of EOD and seems to have lost control of the thread

all three are being voted up

why do TSP and I not both just consolidate on Dizzy, WIFOM aside, and score town points for it

especially after I just played a game I should have lost for _not burying the slanker teammate_

that's my point

you played that game with me, you understand my perspective better than anyone else can here
Anyway, if you aren't a wolf, do you agree there is at least one wolf in Dizzy/Abby?
I had to write out names to see if this is just a math test

pyxxy - town

bereft - town
gira - town
leetic - town
Rondo - town
ranmilia - scum

that leaves

dizzy
abigail
ted

I think my answer is yes

You/Dizzy/Abby all being town would mean both remaining wolves were on TSP, which would be odd as there'd be seemingly little incentive to bus in that situation

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