The Syndicate

Posted: **Sun Jul 25, 2021 9:59 pm**

MacDougall wrote: ↑Sun Jul 25, 2021 9:54 pm N2 Honey gets Nook's card. Nook gets TH's card. Dolby gets Honey's card. Neither Nook or Dolby claim it. Honey didn't do it or she would have told HK in DVC. The default swap chance is very low so for all these to go off is odd.
N3 Nook swaps it with Listo and again succeeds against the odds.

TH therefore has Dolby's card?

Someone has an ability to make all card swaps succeed and used it n2? Possibly a passive of someone's?

@Dolby should we be concerned if TH has your card?

But we can only attempt to swap on odd nights. So something is amiss.

Posted: **Sun Jul 25, 2021 10:02 pm**

@c4e5g3d5 @Alison @Lime Coke @Scotty you all still have your original cards yes?

Posted: **Sun Jul 25, 2021 10:05 pm**

MacDougall wrote: ↑Sun Jul 25, 2021 10:02 pm @c4e5g3d5 @Alison @Lime Coke @Scotty you all still have your original cards yes?

As far as I know I still have my original card.

Posted: **Sun Jul 25, 2021 10:05 pm**

Alison wrote: ↑Sun Jul 25, 2021 9:54 pm It's worth noting that LoMo actually claimed a role in the thread before he died.

lost monkey wrote: ↑Tue Jul 20, 2021 9:34 am @hollowkatt @TonyStarkPrime If you have any important info please share it in a single post in your chat.
This is a blatant as day medium claim and LoMo is very clearly not the kind of player to lie about his role for gambit purposes.

Yet he was taken out during the night and not via soupkill. This is another reason to believe that the soupkill attempt is real and mafia legitimately does not have a soupkill left.

Unless as was suggested. Lomo was not the original target

Posted: **Sun Jul 25, 2021 10:05 pm**

MacDougall wrote: ↑Sun Jul 25, 2021 10:02 pm @c4e5g3d5 @Alison @Lime Coke @Scotty you all still have your original cards yes?

Ay

Posted: **Sun Jul 25, 2021 10:06 pm**

listo95 wrote: ↑Sun Jul 25, 2021 9:59 pm
MacDougall wrote: ↑Sun Jul 25, 2021 9:54 pm N2 Honey gets Nook's card. Nook gets TH's card. Dolby gets Honey's card. Neither Nook or Dolby claim it. Honey didn't do it or she would have told HK in DVC. The default swap chance is very low so for all these to go off is odd.
N3 Nook swaps it with Listo and again succeeds against the odds.

TH therefore has Dolby's card?

Someone has an ability to make all card swaps succeed and used it n2? Possibly a passive of someone's?

@Dolby should we be concerned if TH has your card?
But we can only attempt to swap on odd nights. So something is amiss.

Could be a JOAT ability to make people swap cards without them knowing. Would be a good mafia ability. Make A and B swap cards, A accuses B of forcing a swap, B denies it and accuses A of forcing the swap, they thunderdome, two townies are at each other's throats.

The more I think about it the more I think that makes sense. Guillo went to the trouble of making a custom flavor card with pictures and labels for each person, he would almost certainly add roles that manipulate it to the game.

Posted: **Sun Jul 25, 2021 10:07 pm**

Scotty wrote: ↑Sun Jul 25, 2021 10:05 pm
Alison wrote: ↑Sun Jul 25, 2021 9:54 pm It's worth noting that LoMo actually claimed a role in the thread before he died.

lost monkey wrote: ↑Tue Jul 20, 2021 9:34 am @hollowkatt @TonyStarkPrime If you have any important info please share it in a single post in your chat.
This is a blatant as day medium claim and LoMo is very clearly not the kind of player to lie about his role for gambit purposes.

Yet he was taken out during the night and not via soupkill. This is another reason to believe that the soupkill attempt is real and mafia legitimately does not have a soupkill left.
Unless as was suggested. Lomo was not the original target

The question is not why was LoMo nightkilled. The question was "why is LoMo not soupkilled" (or Mac, or HK, or Dolby).

Occam's Razor says the answer is that they don't have any soupkills left.

Posted: **Sun Jul 25, 2021 10:09 pm**

or its on a cycle

Posted: **Sun Jul 25, 2021 10:09 pm**

So now…since we can infer that TH didn’t actually give listo their card directly,..the flavor card means nothing?

Sounds like TH should flip with someone else’s (whoever they stole N1?)

Posted: **Sun Jul 25, 2021 10:09 pm**

MacDougall wrote: ↑Sun Jul 25, 2021 9:54 pm N2 Honey gets Nook's card. Nook gets TH's card. Dolby gets Honey's card. Neither Nook or Dolby claim it. Honey didn't do it or she would have told HK in DVC. The default swap chance is very low so for all these to go off is odd.
N3 Nook swaps it with Listo and again succeeds against the odds.

TH therefore has Dolby's card?

Someone has an ability to make all card swaps succeed and used it n2? Possibly a passive of someone's?

@Dolby should we be concerned if TH has your card?

Every player can on odd nights, attempt to swap the flavor card in their possession with another player's. This decision does not have to be consensual and once submitted, the swap will go through. Every player has ONE chance to swap at night and once the swap is submitted to the host, it cannot be changed.

Mafia may or may not have a different swapping process than town. This action does not count as a role action.

Do note that none of the flavor cards are alignment indicative and that they will flip with a dead player too (whichever is in their possession at the time).

Each card has a small chance at triggering a specific effect for whoever is carrying the card, again, these effects are not alignment indicative.

I don't think swaps work the way you seem to think they do

Posted: **Sun Jul 25, 2021 10:11 pm**

MacDougall wrote: ↑Sun Jul 25, 2021 10:09 pm or its on a cycle

If it's on a cycle we will find out soon enough lol.

Posted: **Sun Jul 25, 2021 10:11 pm**

Scotty wrote: ↑Sun Jul 25, 2021 10:09 pm So now…since we can infer that TH didn’t actually give listo their card directly,..the flavor card means nothing?

Sounds like TH should flip with someone else’s (whoever they stole N1?)

If we're wrong and triple flips town this seems an awful lot like tmi to me

Posted: **Sun Jul 25, 2021 10:12 pm**

Actually the soup kill is probably on a cycle if 3. It wasn't triggered until d3. Was a day ability. Makes sense itd be the last used in a cycle. That it was on a cycle means it was forced d3 which explains why they took a risky shot with it. This also means it is back tomorrow. Given Martin and TH both went belly up we might actually have lost the game to the last wolf who has the soup in their joat set and already has a game winning soup.

Posted: **Sun Jul 25, 2021 10:13 pm**

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Sun Jul 25, 2021 10:11 pm
Scotty wrote: ↑Sun Jul 25, 2021 10:09 pm So now…since we can infer that TH didn’t actually give listo their card directly,..the flavor card means nothing?

Sounds like TH should flip with someone else’s (whoever they stole N1?)
If we're wrong and triple flips town this seems an awful lot like tmi to me

What does?

In what world is TH town

Posted: **Sun Jul 25, 2021 10:13 pm**

I think this means we need to kill the wolf who has the soup here instead of TH?

Posted: **Sun Jul 25, 2021 10:15 pm**

didn't find anything

Posted: **Sun Jul 25, 2021 10:15 pm**

MacDougall wrote: ↑Sun Jul 25, 2021 10:13 pm I think this means we need to kill the wolf who has the soup here instead of TH?

I doubt it’s one ability. It’s probably shared as a team thing.

Like, if one wolf has that ability, is lynched D1, how broken is that

Posted: **Sun Jul 25, 2021 10:16 pm**

Scotty wrote: ↑Sun Jul 25, 2021 10:13 pm
NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Sun Jul 25, 2021 10:11 pm
Scotty wrote: ↑Sun Jul 25, 2021 10:09 pm So now…since we can infer that TH didn’t actually give listo their card directly,..the flavor card means nothing?

Sounds like TH should flip with someone else’s (whoever they stole N1?)
If we're wrong and triple flips town this seems an awful lot like tmi to me
What does?

In what world is TH town

In a world you're mafia

Its not a high probability world tbf

Posted: **Sun Jul 25, 2021 10:16 pm**

Alison wrote: ↑Sun Jul 25, 2021 9:54 pm It's worth noting that LoMo actually claimed a role in the thread before he died.

lost monkey wrote: ↑Tue Jul 20, 2021 9:34 am @hollowkatt @TonyStarkPrime If you have any important info please share it in a single post in your chat.
This is a blatant as day medium claim and LoMo is very clearly not the kind of player to lie about his role for gambit purposes.

Yet he was taken out during the night and not via soupkill. This is another reason to believe that the soupkill attempt is real and mafia legitimately does not have a soupkill left.

right, that's why lomo died. b/c wolves knew there was fuckery abounding in dvc

Posted: **Sun Jul 25, 2021 10:18 pm**

MacDougall wrote: ↑Sun Jul 25, 2021 10:02 pm @c4e5g3d5 @Alison @Lime Coke @Scotty you all still have your original cards yes?

Yes I still have my card.

Posted: **Sun Jul 25, 2021 10:18 pm**

MacDougall wrote: ↑Sun Jul 25, 2021 10:12 pm Actually the soup kill is probably on a cycle if 3. It wasn't triggered until d3. Was a day ability. Makes sense itd be the last used in a cycle. That it was on a cycle means it was forced d3 which explains why they took a risky shot with it. This also means it is back tomorrow. Given Martin and TH both went belly up we might actually have lost the game to the last wolf who has the soup in their joat set and already has a game winning soup.

I don't think we do. None of nanook, listo, c4, Scotty has claimed anything. Scum missed on my role during the initial soup and I have said nothing about what it actually is other than that it was a close guess.

Nevertheless if that is the case there is nothing we can do about it so it is correct to just play as though it isn't true.

Posted: **Sun Jul 25, 2021 10:18 pm**

in my experience soup isn't an ability any given wolf has, it's an ability that is given to the wolf team as a whole.
like in the avatar game we could soup and kill and use our other actions. the drawback to soup was that it would be published by nanook in the thread who carried the soup

Posted: **Sun Jul 25, 2021 10:19 pm**

Scotty wrote: ↑Sun Jul 25, 2021 10:15 pm
MacDougall wrote: ↑Sun Jul 25, 2021 10:13 pm I think this means we need to kill the wolf who has the soup here instead of TH?
I doubt it’s one ability. It’s probably shared as a team thing.

Like, if one wolf has that ability, is lynched D1, how broken is that

I don't necessarily agree tbh. I have seen a soup mechanic be the ability of a single wolf before I am sure. If the host considers it a mafia ability as opposed to anticlaim for balance purposes it makes sense.

Posted: **Sun Jul 25, 2021 10:20 pm**

hollowkatt wrote: ↑Sun Jul 25, 2021 10:18 pm in my experience soup isn't an ability any given wolf has, it's an ability that is given to the wolf team as a whole.
like in the avatar game we could soup and kill and use our other actions. the drawback to soup was that it would be published by nanook in the thread who carried the soup

In Shadow Corridors it was one specific wolf that had the soup.

I missed playing with TH.

Posted: **Sun Jul 25, 2021 10:20 pm**

this is what guillo says about soup:

Mafia also has the soup kill, a mechanic that allows them to kill players by correctly guessing their role actions. Scum has to submit only 1 of a player's JOAT's abilities for the soup kill to work. This is a mechanic that punishes claiming, there is no info of how many soup kill shots scum got, it could be 1 or it could be infinite. The soup kill is absolute and inevitable if a role ability is submitted correctly.

To me that reads as if it's a "wolf team" action, not "player x can soup"
they are required to submit at least one joat action

Posted: **Sun Jul 25, 2021 10:21 pm**

MacDougall wrote: ↑Sun Jul 25, 2021 10:19 pm
Scotty wrote: ↑Sun Jul 25, 2021 10:15 pm
MacDougall wrote: ↑Sun Jul 25, 2021 10:13 pm I think this means we need to kill the wolf who has the soup here instead of TH?
I doubt it’s one ability. It’s probably shared as a team thing.

Like, if one wolf has that ability, is lynched D1, how broken is that
I don't necessarily agree tbh. I have seen a soup mechanic be the ability of a single wolf before I am sure. If the host considers it a mafia ability as opposed to anticlaim for balance purposes it makes sense.

I’m gonna hard pass on this possibility. If I saw a wolf flip with that, I would probably advocate mass claiming.

Too much room for exploitation by town.

Posted: **Sun Jul 25, 2021 10:22 pm**

MacDougall wrote: ↑Sun Jul 25, 2021 10:19 pm
Scotty wrote: ↑Sun Jul 25, 2021 10:15 pm
MacDougall wrote: ↑Sun Jul 25, 2021 10:13 pm I think this means we need to kill the wolf who has the soup here instead of TH?
I doubt it’s one ability. It’s probably shared as a team thing.

Like, if one wolf has that ability, is lynched D1, how broken is that
I don't necessarily agree tbh. I have seen a soup mechanic be the ability of a single wolf before I am sure. If the host considers it a mafia ability as opposed to anticlaim for balance purposes it makes sense.

Mafia also has the soup kill, a mechanic that allows them to kill players by correctly guessing their role actions. Scum has to submit only 1 of a player's JOAT's abilities for the soup kill to work. This is a mechanic that punishes claiming, there is no info of how many soup kill shots scum got, it could be 1 or it could be infinite. The soup kill is absolute and inevitable if a role ability is submitted correctly.

This wording seems to imply it's a factional thing at least. "Mafia" as a collective whole have a soupkill as a "mechanic" (not an ability), and it is meant to punish claiming for balance purposes.

In other words Guillo was at least worried the game could be broken if a massclaim happened so if it was tied to an ability and that mafia got exed D1 then the game would be over.

Posted: **Sun Jul 25, 2021 10:22 pm**

Scotty wrote: ↑Sun Jul 25, 2021 10:21 pm
MacDougall wrote: ↑Sun Jul 25, 2021 10:19 pm
Scotty wrote: ↑Sun Jul 25, 2021 10:15 pm
MacDougall wrote: ↑Sun Jul 25, 2021 10:13 pm I think this means we need to kill the wolf who has the soup here instead of TH?
I doubt it’s one ability. It’s probably shared as a team thing.

Like, if one wolf has that ability, is lynched D1, how broken is that
I don't necessarily agree tbh. I have seen a soup mechanic be the ability of a single wolf before I am sure. If the host considers it a mafia ability as opposed to anticlaim for balance purposes it makes sense.
I’m gonna hard pass on this possibility. If I saw a wolf flip with that, I would probably advocate mass claiming.

Too much room for exploitation by town.

As an addendum- this isn’t Guillo’s first rodeo, and the possibility you suggest is woefully unbalanced. I would expect more from a seasoned host

Posted: **Sun Jul 25, 2021 10:22 pm**

All three of us made the same post at once lol.

Posted: **Sun Jul 25, 2021 10:22 pm**

We are Fluffy

Posted: **Sun Jul 25, 2021 10:23 pm**

lol that's funny, but also means we're kinda thinking on the same wavelength which seems good for scotty

Posted: **Sun Jul 25, 2021 10:24 pm**

hollowkatt wrote: ↑Sun Jul 25, 2021 10:23 pm lol that's funny, but also means we're kinda thinking on the same wavelength which seems good for scotty

I mean…I feel like I’ve been thinking on the same wave length since like d3 but I’ll take it

Posted: **Sun Jul 25, 2021 10:27 pm**

Gah mac trying to usurp my top post count. Get outta here with your wordy words you dingo

Posted: **Sun Jul 25, 2021 10:37 pm**

Unless I’m interesting the order of operations here, it sounds like TH switched early with Nook, who swapped with…honey? So TH should have honey’s?

Regardless, if TH’s ability is really neg utility, they would probably want to switch to someone not teamed with them, which looks good for nook?

I’m super confused now

Posted: **Sun Jul 25, 2021 10:37 pm**

Scotty wrote: ↑Sun Jul 25, 2021 10:37 pm Unless I’m interesting the order of operations here, it sounds like TH switched early with Nook, who swapped with…honey? So TH should have honey’s?

Regardless, if TH’s ability is really neg utility, they would probably want to switch to someone not teamed with them, which looks good for nook?

I’m super confused now

Interesting=interpreting

Posted: **Sun Jul 25, 2021 10:43 pm**

Scotty wrote: ↑Sun Jul 25, 2021 10:37 pm Unless I’m interesting the order of operations here, it sounds like TH switched early with Nook, who swapped with…honey? So TH should have honey’s?

Regardless, if TH’s ability is really neg utility, they would probably want to switch to someone not teamed with them, which looks good for nook?

I’m super confused now

I didn't swap with honey

Posted: **Sun Jul 25, 2021 10:44 pm**

Wow that Ender card has some confusing syntax.
“There is a 10% chance that whoever targets your target for a kill, gets its identity revealed to the thread”

Because that to me reads as “whoever targets your [target for a kill]”
But it can just as easily read as “whoever targets your target (for a kill). Badly worded, extreme mafia on one hand and extreme town on the other

Posted: **Sun Jul 25, 2021 10:44 pm**

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Sun Jul 25, 2021 10:43 pm
Scotty wrote: ↑Sun Jul 25, 2021 10:37 pm Unless I’m interesting the order of operations here, it sounds like TH switched early with Nook, who swapped with…honey? So TH should have honey’s?

Regardless, if TH’s ability is really neg utility, they would probably want to switch to someone not teamed with them, which looks good for nook?

I’m super confused now
I didn't swap with honey

honey died with your card, which leads me to believe she swapped with you

Posted: **Sun Jul 25, 2021 10:45 pm**

Scotty wrote: ↑Sun Jul 25, 2021 10:44 pm
NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Sun Jul 25, 2021 10:43 pm
Scotty wrote: ↑Sun Jul 25, 2021 10:37 pm Unless I’m interesting the order of operations here, it sounds like TH switched early with Nook, who swapped with…honey? So TH should have honey’s?

Regardless, if TH’s ability is really neg utility, they would probably want to switch to someone not teamed with them, which looks good for nook?

I’m super confused now
I didn't swap with honey
honey died with your card, which leads me to believe she swapped with you

She probably did the swapping. Then some time after, TH swapped with you

Posted: **Sun Jul 25, 2021 10:46 pm**

Scotty wrote: ↑Sun Jul 25, 2021 10:44 pm
NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Sun Jul 25, 2021 10:43 pm
Scotty wrote: ↑Sun Jul 25, 2021 10:37 pm Unless I’m interesting the order of operations here, it sounds like TH switched early with Nook, who swapped with…honey? So TH should have honey’s?

Regardless, if TH’s ability is really neg utility, they would probably want to switch to someone not teamed with them, which looks good for nook?

I’m super confused now
I didn't swap with honey
honey died with your card, which leads me to believe she swapped with you

I mean, maybe, but I never got honey's card

Posted: **Sun Jul 25, 2021 10:47 pm**

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Sun Jul 25, 2021 10:46 pm
Scotty wrote: ↑Sun Jul 25, 2021 10:44 pm
NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Sun Jul 25, 2021 10:43 pm
Scotty wrote: ↑Sun Jul 25, 2021 10:37 pm Unless I’m interesting the order of operations here, it sounds like TH switched early with Nook, who swapped with…honey? So TH should have honey’s?

Regardless, if TH’s ability is really neg utility, they would probably want to switch to someone not teamed with them, which looks good for nook?

I’m super confused now
I didn't swap with honey
honey died with your card, which leads me to believe she swapped with you
I mean, maybe, but I never got honey's card

Might have been a host-determined PEMDAS

Posted: **Sun Jul 25, 2021 10:49 pm**

One look at GG’s flavor and osie’s flavor tells me that those are factional alignment.

I see a strong correlation with the ones that flipped town and towny powers accompanying them. I think Mac is right- if you have a towny card you’re probably town

Posted: **Sun Jul 25, 2021 10:52 pm**

I sort of think we are running into a trap if we try solving based on flavor cards.

Guillo is not an idiot. He implemented a soupkill specifically to try to stop people massclaiming to break his game. I do not believe we will solve this game just by examining flavor cards.

Posted: **Sun Jul 25, 2021 11:19 pm**

MacDougall wrote: ↑Sun Jul 25, 2021 10:02 pm @c4e5g3d5 @Alison @Lime Coke @Scotty you all still have your original cards yes?

I don't know what this means

Posted: **Sun Jul 25, 2021 11:34 pm**

Caught up and saw that there are some exceedingly specific and direct reasons the soup was real so uh
Alright

Posted: **Sun Jul 25, 2021 11:47 pm**

Scotty wrote: ↑Sun Jul 25, 2021 10:49 pm One look at GG’s flavor and osie’s flavor tells me that those are factional alignment.

I see a strong correlation with the ones that flipped town and towny powers accompanying them. I think Mac is right- if you have a towny card you’re probably town

Op says flavor cards aren't AI

Posted: **Mon Jul 26, 2021 12:43 am**

c4e5g3d5 wrote: ↑Sun Jul 25, 2021 11:19 pm
MacDougall wrote: ↑Sun Jul 25, 2021 10:02 pm @c4e5g3d5 @Alison @Lime Coke @Scotty you all still have your original cards yes?
I don't know what this means

in the discord you will have a card at the top of the chan you have with guillo... it should be creatures card

Posted: **Mon Jul 26, 2021 12:52 am**

MacDougall wrote: ↑Sun Jul 25, 2021 9:54 pm N2 Honey gets Nook's card. Nook gets TH's card. Dolby gets Honey's card. Neither Nook or Dolby claim it. Honey didn't do it or she would have told HK in DVC. The default swap chance is very low so for all these to go off is odd.
N3 Nook swaps it with Listo and again succeeds against the odds.

TH therefore has Dolby's card?

Someone has an ability to make all card swaps succeed and used it n2? Possibly a passive of someone's?

@Dolby should we be concerned if TH has your card?

TH having my card isn't an issue given they die today and the next opportunity to pass it would have been tonight

Also, I received Nanook's card during N3/dawn leading into D4

Posted: **Mon Jul 26, 2021 12:59 am**

A surviving mafia having my card is... not bad but worse than them not having it. Assuming that Nanook is town, TH might have a ability to force 2 or even 3 player swaps on even nights.

Posted: **Mon Jul 26, 2021 1:05 am**

Cycle soup is something I’m worried about

Not game ending but we’d take a very significant hit in 3/4 of our previous soup clears

I guess we’ll learn beforehand based on if Mac survives the night

The Syndicate

Everyone's JOATED: Guillo's Roles (Town Wins)

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