The Syndicate

DrWilgy wrote:Scotty. Don't argue the AFK angle, that cup of WIFOM is full of tears and anguish.

Argue my suspicion please.

DrWilgy wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:Scotty could be mafia; nonetheless, I think DrWilgy is a better bet, especially since Scotty has been willing to engage in active hunting and conversation.

Did Scotty dip though?

I don't like his response to me really.

@Scotty, why did you strike for angles other than the one I found suspicious?

Zebra being fishy didn't have anything to do with my suspicion, nor did Pablo Picasso being AFK. Why bring them up unless you don't want to argue my observation? Was I right? Also really odd that you felt strongly about Sig, but then swapped to me for a reason you aren't fully informed about... Why?

DrWilgy wrote:

Scotty wrote:Ok, I'm sold on a Wilgy lynch.

I jumped in the game trying to solve a puzzle while missing 50% of the puzzle. I might be tunneling on sig a bit. I do that.

I'll err on the side of falling back on those that have been in the game so far and have more garnered info.

If what you say is true about this matrix, Golden, you are correct that Wilgy cannot be checking anyone if he is good. And I see no reason for a civ to be absolutely sure Soneji is bad and come out with that kind of info.

So there's actually a fault in this line here. Whenever someone sees no reason, it means they aren't willing to see a reason. I can think of plenty, reaction judging, nk baiting, bluffing the baddies. That line in specific reveals a forced intention.

Scotty wrote:

DrWilgy wrote:Scotty. Don't argue the AFK angle, that cup of WIFOM is full of tears and anguish.

Argue my suspicion please.

DrWilgy wrote:

Scotty wrote:Ok this here. What's happening here. Does anyone else find it fucking fishy as fuck? Like a salmon in a burrito.

Zebra, what did I do to you?

Explaine this to me. Y is this so

Y is wat so?

DrWilgy wrote:

Scotty wrote:

DrWilgy wrote:Waaaaiiiittttt....

Scotty...

Have you read my posts?

A few.

MovingPictures07 wrote:I want to do GTH reads. I wonder when would be the best time for that. Thoughts, folks?

I don't have much time today (I have 2 shows and lots of work in between) but if you start I'll add when I can. Though I'm not sure how useful my reads are.

Your vote on me for a fabricated red check came abit slow. I already explained that it was. Seems rather opportunistic that you would go for that without reading me.

Slow? I'm reading as I go. You literally posted that red check today, if I recall. I'm sorry I'm not at your speed in catching up.


hey Mp I'll give thoughts on all 3 at some point, but it won't be today, I'm afraid. I have too little time. But I also advise not talking ourselves out of things

If this is true, you've caught up now and saw that your vote reason is null. Why is your vote still on me?

quote="Scotty"]

Golden wrote:Wilgy vs Scotty. Phew. This is more like it!

The war to end all wars. The doctor vs the mechanic. One comes from humble beginnings, one comes from a place of lies.

DrWilgy wrote:I never stated that I wanted to or not cfd. Just wondering Sigs Ideas.

No I'm not Scotty. If you could fully respond to the questions I've asked I would be appreciative.

DrWilgy wrote:

Scotty wrote:

DrWilgy wrote:VOTE SCOTTY

I'm more OK with a Scotty shanking than Zebra ganking.

I really want to lynch you. I think of me and zebra, zebra looks shadier.

My mom would agree.

Why do you want to lynch me? Again? I've asked this.

• DrWilgy is at hammer -1

• DrWilgy is at hammer -1

Scotty wrote:I am in a show and have nothing to add. I feel best voting for zebra or Wilgy. We want to consolidate?

MovingPictures07 wrote:

Golden wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:It'd be nice to hear from Scotty and Soneji as well.

Yeah, I really want to hear from these guys.

Same. We need to be united in this. I'll consider moving my vote, but I'm most comfortable with zebra or Wilgy.

I will admit, Wilgy's last few posts have seemed like he legitimately gives a shit, so I'm feeling slightly better about him.

Could it be that he had votes against him and started giving a shit? I don't find that alignment indicative.

Scotty wrote:Also Soneji needs to get his ass back like 70 hours ago.

Golden wrote:Thoughts on IAWY relationships:

Spoiler: show

Inawordyes wrote:Okay, sorry! Sorry sorry sorry. This is game relevant, but I'll put it in OT anyways; I was super tired and fell asleep Saturday night while I was catching up, hence why I just randomly disappeared abruptly, and I fully intended to be here yesterday, but some things came up unexpectedly unexpectedly after I started catching up in the morning, and I ended up being tied up all day and didn't get a chance to check the site until after EoD. But I'm here now, so hopefully I'll be fine.

I caught up with the rest of the day last night post-EoD but I'm not gonna go back and relook over then at the moment because I went to bed with a headache and woke up with a bloody nose, so I'm just not feeling like it haha, so again, if anybody has any specific points or quotes they want my thoughts on, quote 'em forward!

Current thoughts I have from memory: I don't like Frog's insistence on knowing my meta. Haha yes, this is another meta comment, but seriously, I don't step up as a leader when I'm a goodie on any other site other than MU because MU is so different than sites that I usually play on. Case on point is this MM game that I played that just finished this week:

http://mafiamaniac.net/index.php?showtopic=4037

I don't have that big of a thread presence except where it's necessary to avoid being wrongfully suspected and lunched for it, I.e. in any MU game. So I feel like, while I understand why he mentioned it because that's the only experience he has with me, it's unfair to hold me to my MU meta when I only use that meta on MU because MU is vastly sifferent than what we play here or at MM. And repeating it so often led to other people getting into the mindset that that's how I play, and without being anle to be here to correct him, I'm just kinda invariably damaged goods coming into D2 haha, because that's the perception of me now.

I understand, along those lines, why the IAWY wagon formed, but I do not like how it formed, and how it stayed. A CFD three hours before EoD on an MIA player just seems like going for low-hanging fruit, which is the strategy that Frog advocated for and it got him lynched, in the biggest of ironies haha. So that's pretty dumb haha.

Has anyone noticed that in MP's ISO reads, he's just reading posts null after null after null? I don't understand how he's getting town and Mafia leans when he's not reading all the posts he quoting either way. I understand why he'd scumread me for cultural differences - which he expressed that he knew from pregame stuff is my personality anyways - but it seems like he's being a little heavy-handed in keeping the read. I do think he's on the right side of the numbers, but if he keeps on me like that, he's gonna drop spots fast.

I didn't like how Soneji entered the thread guns-blazing with an aggressive attitude, I also didn't like how he didn't address my RVS vote at all but used it offhand as a reason to scum read me. I would lean him baddie for that.

I don't understand the backlash on Zebra and the wagon that formed on him for self-voting, that was kinda weird, and then IIRC (and correct me if I'm wrong, I'm going from memory) all his voters went from him, to MP, to me.

That's what I got at the moment, quote forward relevant issues or points that were directed at me since I know where we're quite a few of them, and I'll do my best to answer them.

The bit in orange would lean towards MP and Soneji not being teammates. He seems to have been most in dispute with them (something borne out by looking at the other side of the conversation). His point on zebra doesn't seems teammate neutral, rather than indicative. It's in IAWY's interests to find the backlash on zebra odd regardless of zebra's alignment.

Spoiler: show

Inawordyes wrote:

Inawordyes wrote:

Metalmarsh89 wrote:Inawordyes used the word unexpectedly twice in a row.

No need to be pedantic. I didn't realize I did that, sorry!

Is that your only response to my post, though? IIRC you were one of the people who was most on my case for being inactive, which kinda makes me suspicious that you're not more into calling out points I made.

This, from day two, makes me very slightly lean away from MM being a teammate, I think in particular given IAWY and MM were the two with votes beforehand so it behooves IAWY to make MM look a little dodgier. The fact it took him two bites in response to MM to do this also helps me lean away from it being an overnight plan for him to suspect MM.

Spoiler: show

Inawordyes wrote:

Metalmarsh89 wrote:An ISO of MP's ISOs This is ridiculous, but not as ridiculous as MP having over 300 posts on Day 1. For the numbers included next to each name, the first one is the number of null posts read, while the second number is the total number of posts observed.

Psittaciform - (2/2) All null post reads, but gives a slight mafia read.

Metalmarsh89 - (6/6) All null post reads, but initially gives a slight mafia read before considering to push it to moderate mafia read.

Long Con - (10/14) 10 null posts, 2 town posts, and 2 scum posts. Ultimately gives Long Con a slight mafia read.

Inawordyes - (10/17) 7 mafia posts (that vary in strength) and the rest null, which result in a moderate mafia read on Inawordyes.

DrWilgy - (15/15) All null posts that result in a null read.

Soneji - (7/9) 7 null post reads and two town post reads, which result in a slight town read.

@Inawordyes: I see what you're saying here. 3 players on this list roughly equate to null reads, but MP gives them slight or moderate mafia reads anyway. He did say in my ISO that he is ignoring null reads. I don't understand that reason for this, especially since he still gave DrWilgy a null read (or more accurately, gave no read). Anyway, if you want to look deeper into the ISOs, the links are here.

It's not even necessarily that I disagree with why he read them null, but going over all their posts and in three cases null-reading all their posts at the time of he ISO but then leaning them either way seems kinda counter-intuitive. I know that he said he was reserving straight-null for Soneji at the start because Soneji was the only NK-shower at the time, but with that many nulls you can't really expect to be able to read them either way without having some sort of slight town and scum basis.

It looks like MP is just posting to post and look like he's contributing. It's not inherently scummy because he's done a lot of other stuff that townish, but it's something to keep an eye on.

I think it's worth noting that IAWY is contributing to the 'MP is just trying to look like he's contributing' push.

Spoiler: show

Inawordyes wrote:

Golden wrote:Here's the thing, zebra. Full seriousness.

I am town, but I'd sooner mislynch you and leave my vote on you than be lynched myself. I'm playing this game for practice for champs. I don't actually care if you go down. I don't actually WHO goes down. I'm going to do my best to try to solve the game and thats all there is to it.

I'll do what I have to do to survive in this game. If that means lynching the people who think I'm bad, even if they are town, then so be it. Means I get longer to practice.

I don't have any teammates to come to my rescue and help. If I do get lynched today, I'll call it a failed endeavour. Certainly, I'll give up, because I don't have time for this shit. I'm playing because JJJ was nice enough to give me a chance to practice, even though I really don't have time for it.

If you don't care about the game itself and just see it as practice, then you're not practicing that well because you're missing a fundamental part of the experience, which is that you have to care at least a little. Surviving to a new day means nothing if you don't care about who's surviving with you, you can't solve the game if you're disinterested in haphazardly taking down goodies in your wake.

Not everybody you think is Mafia is mafia, nor is everybody you think is Town town. If you haphazardly lynch whoever pings your radar without concern for whether they're goodies at the end of it, then you're not learning anything that will help you in the MU games, and from my own experience, I can tell you that you will be called to account for it.

That's my 2¢.

This is much more indicative of zebra being IAWY's teammate, particularly the bit I underlined. I feel like this is a soft defence of a teammate, without appearing to be directly taking a view on zebra's alignment (but implying I'm willing to haphazardly take down goodies).

There are a few more posts from IAWY that lead me even further down the track of MP not being a teammate. No point quoting them all. This one is a good one, though.

Spoiler: show

Inawordyes wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:

Dyslexicon wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:Would you be able to rank your scum reads somehow?

What did you think of my Soneji ISO earlier?

I could, eventually. But I still feel I want to hear more from most of them (since they are all/most pretty quiet). It still feels unsolved to me in a way, if that makes sense. But IAWY is my prefered lynch, and my strongest suspicion.

I was so tired when I read the Soneji-ISO I don't really remember. Sorry. I do appreciate you putting in the work, and I will surely get back to it. Apart from that I've looked into his ISO on my own today to check up on things. I'm not convinced by him, he's a null I'm suspicious of. He could very well be teamed with IAWY if he is indeed scum. I don't feel his push on Sig is very good. Firstly because I feel Sig is a player that would be easy to push on (easy target, for various reasons), and two because the argument doesn't seem all that strong to me and gets a bit repetative. I don't think it makes that much sense for scum!Sig to push on Soneji of all people if Sig is scum. That being said, I don't think it's impossible for Soneji to be town doing all this either. So it's inconclusive atm.

No worries, that's understandable. I feel like we're mind melding the most this phase, so I'm with you on IAWY. It would take some real town spark from IAWY to get me to move that vote, because I have not liked his recent posts (though he seems like a nice fellow).

Not a problem, let me know what you think when you get to it. Yeah, sig is an easy mislynch (or lynch in general), so I think he's particularly difficult to read. I need to figure him out myself.

Thanks for the elaboration.

Once you read me as Mafia you stop looking at me as town, so commenting that you don't like my recent posts is meaningless except as a tool to convince others to look at me the same way, which is a scummy tactic, or possibly a cop tactic but I don't think you would've been this subtle about a redcheck on me if that was a possibility.

Then he goes on to question all his null reads but there really isn't anything there. He votes for each in turn but there is little that can be said for each in way of engagement, I think, except for his engagement with me. I'm not reading into his final rainbow list because wifom.

Metalmarsh89 wrote:I think we should lynch zebra today. Twice, she intentionally put DrWilgy in a near hammer situation. I don't think she would do such a thing if DrWilgy were a civilian, or a vanilla mafia.

Tin-foil hat time. I think zebra is a power role on the mafia team, and she's trying to make it through the day alive, hence attempting to off DrWilgy.

Metalmarsh89 wrote:I think we should lynch zebra today. Twice, she intentionally put DrWilgy in a near hammer situation. I don't think she would do such a thing if DrWilgy were a civilian, or a vanilla mafia.

Tin-foil hat time. I think zebra is a power role on the mafia team, and she's trying to make it through the day alive, hence attempting to off DrWilgy.

Metalmarsh89 wrote:EBWOP: I think zebra would only do such a thing, not wouldn't.

Metalmarsh89 wrote:I think we should lynch zebra today. Twice, she intentionally put DrWilgy in a near hammer situation. I think she would only do such a thing if DrWilgy were a civilian, or a vanilla mafia.

Tin-foil hat time. I think zebra is a power role on the mafia team, and she's trying to make it through the day alive, hence attempting to off DrWilgy.

Golden wrote:

Metalmarsh89 wrote:I think we should lynch zebra today. Twice, she intentionally put DrWilgy in a near hammer situation. I don't think she would do such a thing if DrWilgy were a civilian, or a vanilla mafia.

Tin-foil hat time. I think zebra is a power role on the mafia team, and she's trying to make it through the day alive, hence attempting to off DrWilgy.

This could also explain her 'I'm happier to be lynched myself than have MP lynched' stuff on day one.

Metalmarsh89 wrote:For what it's worth, Soneji was gone for almost the entirety of last weekend as well.

Still doesn't make me feel better about him at this stage in the game.

MovingPictures07 wrote:

Golden wrote:

Metalmarsh89 wrote:I think we should lynch zebra today. Twice, she intentionally put DrWilgy in a near hammer situation. I don't think she would do such a thing if DrWilgy were a civilian, or a vanilla mafia.

Tin-foil hat time. I think zebra is a power role on the mafia team, and she's trying to make it through the day alive, hence attempting to off DrWilgy.

This could also explain her 'I'm happier to be lynched myself than have MP lynched' stuff on day one.

You mean in that it was a reverse psychology gambit that was sure to take votes off of her?

MovingPictures07 wrote:

Metalmarsh89 wrote:For what it's worth, Soneji was gone for almost the entirety of last weekend as well.

Still doesn't make me feel better about him at this stage in the game.

I know... and I'm strong town reading him, but he needs to really show us more of where he's at. I hope I'm not wrong about him at this stage.

Golden wrote:

Metalmarsh89 wrote:I think we should lynch zebra today. Twice, she intentionally put DrWilgy in a near hammer situation. I don't think she would do such a thing if DrWilgy were a civilian, or a vanilla mafia.

Tin-foil hat time. I think zebra is a power role on the mafia team, and she's trying to make it through the day alive, hence attempting to off DrWilgy.

This could also explain her 'I'm happier to be lynched myself than have MP lynched' stuff on day one.

Golden wrote:Since this is ending soon anyway...

I once again implore the town vig... use your kill to take out someone who we don't want to be at lylo with, because they are difficult to understand. Wilgy would be my preference.

Please don't use it on someone we are more likely to be able to figure out on our own, even if you think they are bad.

Metalmarsh89 wrote:

Golden wrote:

Metalmarsh89 wrote:I think we should lynch zebra today. Twice, she intentionally put DrWilgy in a near hammer situation. I don't think she would do such a thing if DrWilgy were a civilian, or a vanilla mafia.

Tin-foil hat time. I think zebra is a power role on the mafia team, and she's trying to make it through the day alive, hence attempting to off DrWilgy.

This could also explain her 'I'm happier to be lynched myself than have MP lynched' stuff on day one.

I honestly don't think this and that are related, since zebra has a much different mindset today than she did Day 1.

Golden wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:

Metalmarsh89 wrote:For what it's worth, Soneji was gone for almost the entirety of last weekend as well.

Still doesn't make me feel better about him at this stage in the game.

I know... and I'm strong town reading him, but he needs to really show us more of where he's at. I hope I'm not wrong about him at this stage.

The interaction between him and IAWY speaks fairly strongly.

Golden wrote:Since this is ending soon anyway...

I once again implore the town vig... use your kill to take out someone who we don't want to be at lylo with, because they are difficult to understand. Wilgy would be my preference.

Please don't use it on someone we are more likely to be able to figure out on our own, even if you think they are bad.

Golden wrote:

Metalmarsh89 wrote:

Golden wrote:

Metalmarsh89 wrote:I think we should lynch zebra today. Twice, she intentionally put DrWilgy in a near hammer situation. I don't think she would do such a thing if DrWilgy were a civilian, or a vanilla mafia.

Tin-foil hat time. I think zebra is a power role on the mafia team, and she's trying to make it through the day alive, hence attempting to off DrWilgy.

This could also explain her 'I'm happier to be lynched myself than have MP lynched' stuff on day one.

I honestly don't think this and that are related, since zebra has a much different mindset today than she did Day 1.

It doesn't need to be related... simply the fact she is MPR would be enough to make that particular thing worth doing on day one tactically, since it makes her look more vanilla.

DrWilgy wrote:

Golden wrote:Since this is ending soon anyway...

I once again implore the town vig... use your kill to take out someone who we don't want to be at lylo with, because they are difficult to understand. Wilgy would be my preference.

Please don't use it on someone we are more likely to be able to figure out on our own, even if you think they are bad.

Or... We could y'know... Kill the baddies?

Do we even know when LYLO is?

(i'll go back to barking up my tree now though... No one u understands the wiggles)

DrWilgy wrote:

Golden wrote:Since this is ending soon anyway...

I once again implore the town vig... use your kill to take out someone who we don't want to be at lylo with, because they are difficult to understand. Wilgy would be my preference.

Please don't use it on someone we are more likely to be able to figure out on our own, even if you think they are bad.

Or... We could y'know... Kill the baddies?

Do we even know when LYLO is?

(i'll go back to barking up my tree now though... No one u understands the wiggles)

Metalmarsh89 wrote:Sig! Fix your vote.

sig wrote:VOTE ZEBRA


There is no good civ reason to encourage a hammer after being the hammer which lynched a civ and pushed us to lynch or loose.


ONCE AGAIN THIS IS LYNCH OR LOOSE!

Zebra is trying to force a hammer in an attempt to win no civ should be advocating for a hammer this early into a phase especially WITHOUT A CASE

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:VOTING INFORMATION

Voting in this game will be a two-piece operation. You'll place a vote in the game thread (this is a requirement by rule for those Syndicate regulars who may not be accustomed to that). This must be formatted the same way by all players:

In the "Large" font size and in all capital letters, write "VOTE [PLAYER]. For example, a vote for me would look like this: VOTE JAGGEDJIMMYJAY

Please write the FULL USERNAME of the player you wish to vote for. The automated tallier on Mafia Universe might recognize some abbreviations, but not all. So use this game to get accustomed to being thorough about it. In the official games you won't have to write "VOTE" because there will be [v] [/v] code for it. In this game, "VOTE" is replacing that.

MovingPictures07 wrote:

DrWilgy wrote:

Golden wrote:Since this is ending soon anyway...

I once again implore the town vig... use your kill to take out someone who we don't want to be at lylo with, because they are difficult to understand. Wilgy would be my preference.

Please don't use it on someone we are more likely to be able to figure out on our own, even if you think they are bad.

Or... We could y'know... Kill the baddies?

Do we even know when LYLO is?

(i'll go back to barking up my tree now though... No one u understands the wiggles)

You don't appear to be helping much with this though.

DrWilgy wrote:

DrWilgy wrote:Scotty. Don't argue the AFK angle, that cup of WIFOM is full of tears and anguish.

Argue my suspicion please.

DrWilgy wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:Scotty could be mafia; nonetheless, I think DrWilgy is a better bet, especially since Scotty has been willing to engage in active hunting and conversation.

Did Scotty dip though?

I don't like his response to me really.

@Scotty, why did you strike for angles other than the one I found suspicious?

Zebra being fishy didn't have anything to do with my suspicion, nor did Pablo Picasso being AFK. Why bring them up unless you don't want to argue my observation? Was I right? Also really odd that you felt strongly about Sig, but then swapped to me for a reason you aren't fully informed about... Why?

DrWilgy wrote:

Scotty wrote:Ok, I'm sold on a Wilgy lynch.

I jumped in the game trying to solve a puzzle while missing 50% of the puzzle. I might be tunneling on sig a bit. I do that.

I'll err on the side of falling back on those that have been in the game so far and have more garnered info.

If what you say is true about this matrix, Golden, you are correct that Wilgy cannot be checking anyone if he is good. And I see no reason for a civ to be absolutely sure Soneji is bad and come out with that kind of info.

So there's actually a fault in this line here. Whenever someone sees no reason, it means they aren't willing to see a reason. I can think of plenty, reaction judging, nk baiting, bluffing the baddies. That line in specific reveals a forced intention.

Scotty wrote:

DrWilgy wrote:Scotty. Don't argue the AFK angle, that cup of WIFOM is full of tears and anguish.

Argue my suspicion please.

DrWilgy wrote:

Scotty wrote:Ok this here. What's happening here. Does anyone else find it fucking fishy as fuck? Like a salmon in a burrito.

Zebra, what did I do to you?

Explaine this to me. Y is this so

Y is wat so?

DrWilgy wrote:

Scotty wrote:

DrWilgy wrote:Waaaaiiiittttt....

Scotty...

Have you read my posts?

A few.

MovingPictures07 wrote:I want to do GTH reads. I wonder when would be the best time for that. Thoughts, folks?

I don't have much time today (I have 2 shows and lots of work in between) but if you start I'll add when I can. Though I'm not sure how useful my reads are.

Your vote on me for a fabricated red check came abit slow. I already explained that it was. Seems rather opportunistic that you would go for that without reading me.

Slow? I'm reading as I go. You literally posted that red check today, if I recall. I'm sorry I'm not at your speed in catching up.


hey Mp I'll give thoughts on all 3 at some point, but it won't be today, I'm afraid. I have too little time. But I also advise not talking ourselves out of things

If this is true, you've caught up now and saw that your vote reason is null. Why is your vote still on me?

Scotty wrote:

Golden wrote:Wilgy vs Scotty. Phew. This is more like it!

The war to end all wars. The doctor vs the mechanic. One comes from humble beginnings, one comes from a place of lies.

Why do you want a 1v1?

DrWilgy wrote:I never stated that I wanted to or not cfd. Just wondering Sigs Ideas.

No I'm not Scotty. If you could fully respond to the questions I've asked I would be appreciative.

DrWilgy wrote:

Scotty wrote:

DrWilgy wrote:VOTE SCOTTY

I'm more OK with a Scotty shanking than Zebra ganking.

I really want to lynch you. I think of me and zebra, zebra looks shadier.

My mom would agree.

Why do you want to lynch me? Again? I've asked this.

These are all the posts that I have directed towards you that haven't been responded to Scotty.