The Syndicate

EllieDelight wrote: ↑Sat Jan 23, 2021 3:21 am

Esooa wrote: ↑Sat Jan 23, 2021 3:17 am

EllieDelight wrote: ↑Sat Jan 23, 2021 3:16 am

Esooa wrote: ↑Sat Jan 23, 2021 3:14 am we should always go Ellie over made imo btw

you're going to kill another town and mafia are going to use that to get you killed like what's happening RIGHT NOW. i wish i was scum so you wouldn't look so evil but im not

can you give a general reads list

made is 1000% scum, i have done nothing in this game for him to bend over backwards. i couldnt tell you anyone else, michelle looked scum to me d1 but idk what to say now. probably scum if shes helping made though.

nook, spf, nutter are lock town.

idk where to put you since i thought you were scum so bad yesterday but now im confused.

grogu is a passing thought and i dont care either way since he's inactive.

EllieDelight wrote: ↑Sat Jan 23, 2021 3:16 am

Esooa wrote: ↑Sat Jan 23, 2021 3:14 am we should always go Ellie over made imo btw

you're going to kill another town and mafia are going to use that to get you killed like what's happening RIGHT NOW. i wish i was scum so you wouldn't look so evil but im not

EllieDelight wrote: ↑Sat Jan 23, 2021 3:21 am

Esooa wrote: ↑Sat Jan 23, 2021 3:17 am

EllieDelight wrote: ↑Sat Jan 23, 2021 3:16 am

Esooa wrote: ↑Sat Jan 23, 2021 3:14 am we should always go Ellie over made imo btw

you're going to kill another town and mafia are going to use that to get you killed like what's happening RIGHT NOW. i wish i was scum so you wouldn't look so evil but im not

can you give a general reads list

made is 1000% scum, i have done nothing in this game for him to bend over backwards. i couldnt tell you anyone else, michelle looked scum to me d1 but idk what to say now. probably scum if shes helping made though.

nook, spf, nutter are lock town.

idk where to put you since i thought you were scum so bad yesterday but now im confused.

grogu is a passing thought and i dont care either way since he's inactive.

Esooa wrote: ↑Sat Jan 23, 2021 3:22 am

EllieDelight wrote: ↑Sat Jan 23, 2021 3:21 am

Esooa wrote: ↑Sat Jan 23, 2021 3:17 am

EllieDelight wrote: ↑Sat Jan 23, 2021 3:16 am

Esooa wrote: ↑Sat Jan 23, 2021 3:14 am we should always go Ellie over made imo btw

you're going to kill another town and mafia are going to use that to get you killed like what's happening RIGHT NOW. i wish i was scum so you wouldn't look so evil but im not

can you give a general reads list

made is 1000% scum, i have done nothing in this game for him to bend over backwards. i couldnt tell you anyone else, michelle looked scum to me d1 but idk what to say now. probably scum if shes helping made though.

nook, spf, nutter are lock town.

idk where to put you since i thought you were scum so bad yesterday but now im confused.

grogu is a passing thought and i dont care either way since he's inactive.

you're gonna have to explain why you're so different this game if you ever want my vote moved off you btw

nutella wrote: ↑Sat Jan 23, 2021 3:24 am

EllieDelight wrote: ↑Sat Jan 23, 2021 3:21 am

Esooa wrote: ↑Sat Jan 23, 2021 3:17 am

EllieDelight wrote: ↑Sat Jan 23, 2021 3:16 am

Esooa wrote: ↑Sat Jan 23, 2021 3:14 am we should always go Ellie over made imo btw

you're going to kill another town and mafia are going to use that to get you killed like what's happening RIGHT NOW. i wish i was scum so you wouldn't look so evil but im not

can you give a general reads list

made is 1000% scum, i have done nothing in this game for him to bend over backwards. i couldnt tell you anyone else, michelle looked scum to me d1 but idk what to say now. probably scum if shes helping made though.

nook, spf, nutter are lock town.

idk where to put you since i thought you were scum so bad yesterday but now im confused.

grogu is a passing thought and i dont care either way since he's inactive.

Ellie/Michelle/.....nanook

or nanook is actually just pocketed by michelle and she openly said so lol and the third is someone else


lol i gotta stop trying to team build

Esooa wrote: ↑Sat Jan 23, 2021 3:24 am

nutella wrote: ↑Sat Jan 23, 2021 3:22 am Michelle is really nitpicking at things that are inconsequential, which like I think she does as town but in a better balance with actual real reads and productive pushes tbh.

Really feeling she's mafia here, and I think Made is more likely town in comparison.

I agree though thinking of made town is *shudders* rn cause of how much he's scum siding if so. But it makes Ellie look bad cause she's trying to get him to go first. But Ellie at the same time is just straight up right that Mades treatment of her makes no sense at all

EllieDelight wrote: ↑Sat Jan 23, 2021 3:25 am

Esooa wrote: ↑Sat Jan 23, 2021 3:22 am

EllieDelight wrote: ↑Sat Jan 23, 2021 3:21 am

Esooa wrote: ↑Sat Jan 23, 2021 3:17 am

EllieDelight wrote: ↑Sat Jan 23, 2021 3:16 am

Esooa wrote: ↑Sat Jan 23, 2021 3:14 am we should always go Ellie over made imo btw

you're going to kill another town and mafia are going to use that to get you killed like what's happening RIGHT NOW. i wish i was scum so you wouldn't look so evil but im not

can you give a general reads list

made is 1000% scum, i have done nothing in this game for him to bend over backwards. i couldnt tell you anyone else, michelle looked scum to me d1 but idk what to say now. probably scum if shes helping made though.

nook, spf, nutter are lock town.

idk where to put you since i thought you were scum so bad yesterday but now im confused.

grogu is a passing thought and i dont care either way since he's inactive.

you're gonna have to explain why you're so different this game if you ever want my vote moved off you btw

i uh, cared more about flirting the first two games and coming across as cute rather than trying super hard. but now i can just try and dont care about looking bitchy. cringe cringe cringe

Made wrote: ↑Sat Jan 23, 2021 3:27 am oh, i should make it official
[VOTE: Esooa] aubergine

EllieDelight wrote: ↑Sat Jan 23, 2021 3:25 am

Esooa wrote: ↑Sat Jan 23, 2021 3:22 am

EllieDelight wrote: ↑Sat Jan 23, 2021 3:21 am

Esooa wrote: ↑Sat Jan 23, 2021 3:17 am

EllieDelight wrote: ↑Sat Jan 23, 2021 3:16 am

Esooa wrote: ↑Sat Jan 23, 2021 3:14 am we should always go Ellie over made imo btw

you're going to kill another town and mafia are going to use that to get you killed like what's happening RIGHT NOW. i wish i was scum so you wouldn't look so evil but im not

can you give a general reads list

made is 1000% scum, i have done nothing in this game for him to bend over backwards. i couldnt tell you anyone else, michelle looked scum to me d1 but idk what to say now. probably scum if shes helping made though.

nook, spf, nutter are lock town.

idk where to put you since i thought you were scum so bad yesterday but now im confused.

grogu is a passing thought and i dont care either way since he's inactive.

you're gonna have to explain why you're so different this game if you ever want my vote moved off you btw

i uh, cared more about flirting the first two games and coming across as cute rather than trying super hard. but now i can just try and dont care about looking bitchy. cringe cringe cringe

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Sat Jan 23, 2021 3:18 am

EllieDelight wrote: ↑Sat Jan 23, 2021 3:16 am

Esooa wrote: ↑Sat Jan 23, 2021 3:14 am we should always go Ellie over made imo btw

you're going to kill another town and mafia are going to use that to get you killed like what's happening RIGHT NOW. i wish i was scum so you wouldn't look so evil but im not

i'm pretty surprised by the level of certainty you have right now that esooa is town - how sure are u?

Made wrote: ↑Sat Jan 23, 2021 3:20 am

EllieDelight wrote: ↑Sat Jan 23, 2021 3:17 am

Made wrote: ↑Sat Jan 23, 2021 3:15 am

EllieDelight wrote: ↑Sat Jan 23, 2021 3:14 am

Made wrote: ↑Sat Jan 23, 2021 3:11 am okay so
nutella, essoa, nanook, made, michelle, ellie

of us active at this moment right now, ALL of us can't bad so there's definitely some friendly fire here, and people who are just mistaken.

it'd be wild if 3 of us were bad, so like. maybe i'm wrong, maybe y'all wrong, but most of us are well intentioned

silence and die scum

i was really hoping we could be friend.

can we at least work together to get you off the chopping block?

HOW DOES NO ONE SEE THAT MADE IS TRYING TO MAKE ME LOOK SCUM WITH HIM??? ME AND HIM ARE THE WAGONS, WHAT SANE PERSON WOULD WANT ME OFF THE CHOPPING BLOCK?????

fix'd that for you pal <3

Made wrote: ↑Sat Jan 23, 2021 3:20 am

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Sat Jan 23, 2021 3:18 am

EllieDelight wrote: ↑Sat Jan 23, 2021 3:16 am

Esooa wrote: ↑Sat Jan 23, 2021 3:14 am we should always go Ellie over made imo btw

you're going to kill another town and mafia are going to use that to get you killed like what's happening RIGHT NOW. i wish i was scum so you wouldn't look so evil but im not

i'm pretty surprised by the level of certainty you have right now that esooa is town - how sure are u?

oh god, she does???

Made wrote: ↑Sat Jan 23, 2021 3:23 am

EllieDelight wrote: ↑Sat Jan 23, 2021 3:21 am

Esooa wrote: ↑Sat Jan 23, 2021 3:17 am

EllieDelight wrote: ↑Sat Jan 23, 2021 3:16 am

Esooa wrote: ↑Sat Jan 23, 2021 3:14 am we should always go Ellie over made imo btw

you're going to kill another town and mafia are going to use that to get you killed like what's happening RIGHT NOW. i wish i was scum so you wouldn't look so evil but im not

can you give a general reads list

made is 1000% scum, i have done nothing in this game for him to bend over backwards. i couldnt tell you anyone else, michelle looked scum to me d1 but idk what to say now. probably scum if shes helping made though.

nook, spf, nutter are lock town.

idk where to put you since i thought you were scum so bad yesterday but now im confused.

grogu is a passing thought and i dont care either way since he's inactive.

post like this, and your "ewww grosss made" only making me more confident that ur town. i see why that's problematic, but like it's gonna work out dw

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Sat Jan 23, 2021 3:24 am

EllieDelight wrote: ↑Sat Jan 23, 2021 3:21 am

Esooa wrote: ↑Sat Jan 23, 2021 3:17 am

EllieDelight wrote: ↑Sat Jan 23, 2021 3:16 am

Esooa wrote: ↑Sat Jan 23, 2021 3:14 am we should always go Ellie over made imo btw

you're going to kill another town and mafia are going to use that to get you killed like what's happening RIGHT NOW. i wish i was scum so you wouldn't look so evil but im not

can you give a general reads list

made is 1000% scum, i have done nothing in this game for him to bend over backwards. i couldnt tell you anyone else, michelle looked scum to me d1 but idk what to say now. probably scum if shes helping made though.

nook, spf, nutter are lock town.

idk where to put you since i thought you were scum so bad yesterday but now im confused.

grogu is a passing thought and i dont care either way since he's inactive.

i'm concerned, because you don't seem very confused about esooa's alignment in this post:

EllieDelight wrote: ↑Sat Jan 23, 2021 3:16 am

Esooa wrote: ↑Sat Jan 23, 2021 3:14 am we should always go Ellie over made imo btw

you're going to kill another town and mafia are going to use that to get you killed like what's happening RIGHT NOW. i wish i was scum so you wouldn't look so evil but im not

u sound pretty confident that she's town that's in danger of getting mischopped, right? so how can you have that level of certainty while still not knowing where to put esooa on your reads list?

Made wrote: ↑Sat Jan 23, 2021 3:27 am @NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME if ur so solid that i'm bad, why aren't you intervening on any of my bullshit?

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Sat Jan 23, 2021 3:24 am

EllieDelight wrote: ↑Sat Jan 23, 2021 3:21 am

Esooa wrote: ↑Sat Jan 23, 2021 3:17 am

EllieDelight wrote: ↑Sat Jan 23, 2021 3:16 am

Esooa wrote: ↑Sat Jan 23, 2021 3:14 am we should always go Ellie over made imo btw

you're going to kill another town and mafia are going to use that to get you killed like what's happening RIGHT NOW. i wish i was scum so you wouldn't look so evil but im not

can you give a general reads list

made is 1000% scum, i have done nothing in this game for him to bend over backwards. i couldnt tell you anyone else, michelle looked scum to me d1 but idk what to say now. probably scum if shes helping made though.

nook, spf, nutter are lock town.

idk where to put you since i thought you were scum so bad yesterday but now im confused.

grogu is a passing thought and i dont care either way since he's inactive.

i'm concerned, because you don't seem very confused about esooa's alignment in this post:

EllieDelight wrote: ↑Sat Jan 23, 2021 3:16 am

Esooa wrote: ↑Sat Jan 23, 2021 3:14 am we should always go Ellie over made imo btw

you're going to kill another town and mafia are going to use that to get you killed like what's happening RIGHT NOW. i wish i was scum so you wouldn't look so evil but im not

u sound pretty confident that she's town that's in danger of getting mischopped, right? so how can you have that level of certainty while still not knowing where to put esooa on your reads list?

Esooa wrote: ↑Sat Jan 23, 2021 3:28 am

Made wrote: ↑Sat Jan 23, 2021 3:27 am oh, i should make it official
[VOTE: Esooa] aubergine

make what official? that you're scum?

goodnight y'all

Michelle wrote: ↑Sat Jan 23, 2021 3:25 am Exhibit no 1: Nut can't read me this game. Never happened before.
Exhibit no 2: Mac died and he suspected Esooa
Exhibit no 3: Nutella don't give a fuck on Mac's read and accepts Esooa's pocketing.

Something is not right.

I will go to work now.

nutella wrote: ↑Sat Jan 23, 2021 3:27 am

Esooa wrote: ↑Sat Jan 23, 2021 3:24 am

nutella wrote: ↑Sat Jan 23, 2021 3:22 am Michelle is really nitpicking at things that are inconsequential, which like I think she does as town but in a better balance with actual real reads and productive pushes tbh.

Really feeling she's mafia here, and I think Made is more likely town in comparison.

I agree though thinking of made town is *shudders* rn cause of how much he's scum siding if so. But it makes Ellie look bad cause she's trying to get him to go first. But Ellie at the same time is just straight up right that Mades treatment of her makes no sense at all

I've seen town do similar things to how made is treating ellie in similar situations

@staypositivefriend and @JaggedJimmyJay, I'm thinking of Ara's defense of Ephemera for instance here

think he's just misguided

EllieDelight wrote: ↑Sat Jan 23, 2021 3:31 am i kinda dont lime nut's defense of made since made is so obv scum, ngl

EllieDelight wrote: ↑Sat Jan 23, 2021 3:25 am

Esooa wrote: ↑Sat Jan 23, 2021 3:22 am

EllieDelight wrote: ↑Sat Jan 23, 2021 3:21 am

Esooa wrote: ↑Sat Jan 23, 2021 3:17 am

EllieDelight wrote: ↑Sat Jan 23, 2021 3:16 am

Esooa wrote: ↑Sat Jan 23, 2021 3:14 am we should always go Ellie over made imo btw

you're going to kill another town and mafia are going to use that to get you killed like what's happening RIGHT NOW. i wish i was scum so you wouldn't look so evil but im not

can you give a general reads list

made is 1000% scum, i have done nothing in this game for him to bend over backwards. i couldnt tell you anyone else, michelle looked scum to me d1 but idk what to say now. probably scum if shes helping made though.

nook, spf, nutter are lock town.

idk where to put you since i thought you were scum so bad yesterday but now im confused.

grogu is a passing thought and i dont care either way since he's inactive.

you're gonna have to explain why you're so different this game if you ever want my vote moved off you btw

i uh, cared more about flirting the first two games and coming across as cute rather than trying super hard. but now i can just try and dont care about looking bitchy. cringe cringe cringe

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Sat Jan 23, 2021 3:29 am

Made wrote: ↑Sat Jan 23, 2021 3:27 am @NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME if ur so solid that i'm bad, why aren't you intervening on any of my bullshit?

What would that look like

nutella wrote: ↑Sat Jan 23, 2021 3:32 am Michelle doesn't have the guts to straight out say she suspects me because she damn well knows I'm obvious town so instead she resorts to vague shit like "something isn't right"

she's just mafia

DaughterOfOmega wrote: ↑Sat Jan 23, 2021 3:21 am Michelle, it's hard to remember your past games I've seen, but I don't think you ever come across as towny

Made wrote: ↑Sat Jan 23, 2021 3:32 am

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Sat Jan 23, 2021 3:29 am

Made wrote: ↑Sat Jan 23, 2021 3:27 am @NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME if ur so solid that i'm bad, why aren't you intervening on any of my bullshit?

What would that look like

i just feel like if a person were tunneled they'd be primed to see the logical leaps in w/e their tunnel-ee is doing. I know that's the case for me anyways

EllieDelight wrote: ↑Sat Jan 23, 2021 3:29 am
id feel bad out of game if she was mischopped, since id be to blame but in game im unsure if she is actually town

Made wrote: ↑Sat Jan 23, 2021 3:32 am

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Sat Jan 23, 2021 3:29 am

Made wrote: ↑Sat Jan 23, 2021 3:27 am @NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME if ur so solid that i'm bad, why aren't you intervening on any of my bullshit?

What would that look like

i just feel like if a person were tunneled they'd be primed to see the logical leaps in w/e their tunnel-ee is doing. I know that's the case for me anyways

nutella wrote: ↑Sat Jan 23, 2021 3:30 am

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Sat Jan 23, 2021 3:24 am

EllieDelight wrote: ↑Sat Jan 23, 2021 3:21 am

Esooa wrote: ↑Sat Jan 23, 2021 3:17 am

EllieDelight wrote: ↑Sat Jan 23, 2021 3:16 am

Esooa wrote: ↑Sat Jan 23, 2021 3:14 am we should always go Ellie over made imo btw

you're going to kill another town and mafia are going to use that to get you killed like what's happening RIGHT NOW. i wish i was scum so you wouldn't look so evil but im not

can you give a general reads list

made is 1000% scum, i have done nothing in this game for him to bend over backwards. i couldnt tell you anyone else, michelle looked scum to me d1 but idk what to say now. probably scum if shes helping made though.

nook, spf, nutter are lock town.

idk where to put you since i thought you were scum so bad yesterday but now im confused.

grogu is a passing thought and i dont care either way since he's inactive.

i'm concerned, because you don't seem very confused about esooa's alignment in this post:

EllieDelight wrote: ↑Sat Jan 23, 2021 3:16 am

Esooa wrote: ↑Sat Jan 23, 2021 3:14 am we should always go Ellie over made imo btw

you're going to kill another town and mafia are going to use that to get you killed like what's happening RIGHT NOW. i wish i was scum so you wouldn't look so evil but im not

u sound pretty confident that she's town that's in danger of getting mischopped, right? so how can you have that level of certainty while still not knowing where to put esooa on your reads list?

now *that* is what a tmi read looks like

the particular way she addresses Esooa there is how scum addresses town knowing their alignment

Michelle wrote: ↑Sat Jan 23, 2021 3:34 am

DaughterOfOmega wrote: ↑Sat Jan 23, 2021 3:21 am Michelle, it's hard to remember your past games I've seen, but I don't think you ever come across as towny

I will give you a hint about how i come across, in my second mentor/mentee game, the town mentors could bet i am wolf, and i was villager.
And that was before Monstrman adviced me to play bolder as villager.
I think we never played together, or at least i don't remember.
I don't pay attention at my play to be townish, i rather need to receive answers from the thread than have an universally town read who is blurring my view over the game.

nutella wrote: ↑Sat Jan 23, 2021 3:32 am Michelle doesn't have the guts to straight out say she suspects me because she damn well knows I'm obvious town so instead she resorts to vague shit like "something isn't right"

she's just mafia

EllieDelight wrote: ↑Sat Jan 23, 2021 3:31 am i kinda dont lime nut's defense of made since made is so obv scum, ngl

nutella wrote: ↑Sat Jan 23, 2021 3:34 am

EllieDelight wrote: ↑Sat Jan 23, 2021 3:29 am
id feel bad out of game if she was mischopped, since id be to blame but in game im unsure if she is actually town

yeah this just seems like a fake backtrack ngl

DaughterOfOmega wrote: ↑Sat Jan 23, 2021 3:36 am

Michelle wrote: ↑Sat Jan 23, 2021 3:34 am

DaughterOfOmega wrote: ↑Sat Jan 23, 2021 3:21 am Michelle, it's hard to remember your past games I've seen, but I don't think you ever come across as towny

I will give you a hint about how i come across, in my second mentor/mentee game, the town mentors could bet i am wolf, and i was villager.
And that was before Monstrman adviced me to play bolder as villager.
I think we never played together, or at least i don't remember.
I don't pay attention at my play to be townish, i rather need to receive answers from the thread than have an universally town read who is blurring my view over the game.

We've come across one another a couple times, you may have been in the last mafia game I played

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Sat Jan 23, 2021 3:36 am if ellie ~does~ flip scum then this game is a good primer on why i shouldn't care about tone at all in mafia games

because sometimes when i read ellie's posts her tone just "sounds" authentic to me, even though her logic and her reads don't. and i think what kept me from committing to her on d1 is the feeling that her "tone" was just too genuine - but i would be a fool if i prioritized her tone over her logic and her reads atm

nutella wrote: ↑Sat Jan 23, 2021 3:36 am

EllieDelight wrote: ↑Sat Jan 23, 2021 3:31 am i kinda dont lime nut's defense of made since made is so obv scum, ngl

why would i side with my top mafia read on their relentless tunnel? like i know i said your push on him could be teammate wifom but atp i think youre kinda spewing him town. if you are town then he looks more scummy from your pov sure but i dont have that perspective and dont think you flip green. and i think michelle is far scummier here and dont really think theyre partnered

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Sat Jan 23, 2021 3:31 am

nutella wrote: ↑Sat Jan 23, 2021 3:27 am

Esooa wrote: ↑Sat Jan 23, 2021 3:24 am

nutella wrote: ↑Sat Jan 23, 2021 3:22 am Michelle is really nitpicking at things that are inconsequential, which like I think she does as town but in a better balance with actual real reads and productive pushes tbh.

Really feeling she's mafia here, and I think Made is more likely town in comparison.

I agree though thinking of made town is *shudders* rn cause of how much he's scum siding if so. But it makes Ellie look bad cause she's trying to get him to go first. But Ellie at the same time is just straight up right that Mades treatment of her makes no sense at all

I've seen town do similar things to how made is treating ellie in similar situations

@staypositivefriend and @JaggedJimmyJay, I'm thinking of Ara's defense of Ephemera for instance here

think he's just misguided

mm it's possible, but i found it pretty easy to understand ara's thought process behind defending/townreading ephemera even though i disagreed with her

but in the case of made, i have consistently struggled to understand his thought process and get on the same page as him - probably more than any other player this game. at least in terms of how genuine the defenses feel, im not sure how well the ara/eph comparison works

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Sat Jan 23, 2021 3:36 am if ellie ~does~ flip scum then this game is a good primer on why i shouldn't care about tone at all in mafia games

because sometimes when i read ellie's posts her tone just "sounds" authentic to me, even though her logic and her reads don't. and i think what kept me from committing to her on d1 is the feeling that her "tone" was just too genuine - but i would be a fool if i prioritized her tone over her logic and her reads atm

tutuu wrote: ↑Sat Jan 23, 2021 3:38 am Let's put JJJ at L-1 just for the fun of it

Esooa wrote: ↑Sat Jan 23, 2021 3:39 am

tutuu wrote: ↑Sat Jan 23, 2021 3:38 am Let's put JJJ at L-1 just for the fun of it

why

actual reasons pls

nutella wrote: ↑Sat Jan 23, 2021 3:36 am

EllieDelight wrote: ↑Sat Jan 23, 2021 3:31 am i kinda dont lime nut's defense of made since made is so obv scum, ngl

why would i side with my top mafia read on their relentless tunnel? like i know i said your push on him could be teammate wifom but atp i think youre kinda spewing him town. if you are town then he looks more scummy from your pov sure but i dont have that perspective and dont think you flip green. and i think michelle is far scummier here and dont really think theyre partnered