Murder, Mayhem, and Mafia
https://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/
yea well tony was mafia? so i dont see the problem? if u had voted for wilgy, a mafia would have been chopped on d3Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Tue Mar 30, 2021 6:06 pm If I had voted Wilgy, nothing stops LC from voting JPIC and yeeting Tony.
If I voted Wilgy, nothing stops Enrique from voting JPIC and yeeting me.Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Tue Mar 30, 2021 6:07 pmExcept Tony was a wolf right? LolJackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Tue Mar 30, 2021 6:06 pm If I had voted Wilgy, nothing stops LC from voting JPIC and yeeting Tony.
then enrique gets questioned why did he vote for jpic at the last secondJackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Tue Mar 30, 2021 6:08 pmIf I voted Wilgy, nothing stops Enrique from voting JPIC and yeeting me.Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Tue Mar 30, 2021 6:07 pmExcept Tony was a wolf right? LolJackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Tue Mar 30, 2021 6:06 pm If I had voted Wilgy, nothing stops LC from voting JPIC and yeeting Tony.
Town did not mechanically control the yeet D3.
should let players vent but hosts cant vent, they are your retail workers that are supposed to just smile and nod along am i rightNANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Tue Mar 30, 2021 6:09 pm GM and players arguing in post isn't fun
Sometimes better to just let players vent and realize its not meant as a personal attack
Except we didn’t control the yeet D4 either because the wolves had the ability to take 3 wolves off the poll.tutuu wrote: ↑Tue Mar 30, 2021 6:07 pmif wolves didnt play along with the most pro-town plan you could have chopped themJackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Tue Mar 30, 2021 6:01 pmYour proposed plan only works if ALL players play along, even wolves.
I literally had no ability to effect the yeet as a townie for half the game.
That’s broken.
Town had to catch and all specifically agree on two wolves to yeet a wolf D3.
Town had to catch specifically JPIC and all agree on D4.
That’s broken.
I’m not upset I lost. I like being fooled. I have never once been mad at a wolf for tricking me. I probably have lost half of the town games I’ve played. Maybe more.
For you to dismiss criticism of this game by calling me a poor sport is bullshit and rude.
you had the ability to affect the chop on d3, on d4 u had ur voice
the town had no just agree to chop a wolf on d3
town didnt have to catch specifically jpic. it was 2 townies and 1 mafia deciding the chop. then jpic made it 50/50 between himself and a town. "Town had to catch specifically JPIC and all agree on D4. - this line makes no sense
i dont think the setup was broken
in order to take 3 wolves off the poll they had to make it 50/50 between a wolf and a town...Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Tue Mar 30, 2021 6:11 pm
Except we didn’t control the yeet D4 either because the wolves had the ability to take 3 wolves off the poll.
It didn’t matter if most of the wolf team outted D3.
Which ignores that “it would make them look bad to do X” is not the same as “they couldn’t do X.”
"As long as town doesn’t play perfectly, game can’t be broken, right?" im not arguing that, im responding to what i perceived to be ur argument about why the reverse chop was brokenJackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Tue Mar 30, 2021 6:17 pm As long as town doesn’t play perfectly, game can’t be broken, right?
I’m not arguing town deserved to win this game.
I’m arguing the game was broken and town only had the ability to yeet their top suspect on D1 and D2.
you are arguing that the d3 chop was broken because even if town played perfectly they could have been robbed of it. thats what i understoodJackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Tue Mar 30, 2021 6:21 pm You keep bringing up mistakes the town made as a defense against criticism of the game’s balance.
How the town played is 100% irrelevant to the overall balance of most setups and it’s entirely irrelevant here.tutuu wrote: ↑Tue Mar 30, 2021 6:25 pmyou are arguing that the d3 chop was broken because even if town played perfectly they could have been robbed of it. thats what i understoodJackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Tue Mar 30, 2021 6:21 pm You keep bringing up mistakes the town made as a defense against criticism of the game’s balance.
so i responded with "town didnt even play perfectly in the first place. but even if they did, a mafia would have looked scummy for the unexplained cfd"
am i missing something?
wrongJackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Tue Mar 30, 2021 6:29 pm Town plays 100% perfectly -> wolves control the yeet and have to look bad but it doesn’t matter because they can take themselves off the poll.
This seems uncalled fortutuu wrote: ↑Tue Mar 30, 2021 6:11 pmshould let players vent but hosts cant vent, they are your retail workers that are supposed to just smile and nod along am i rightNANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Tue Mar 30, 2021 6:09 pm GM and players arguing in post isn't fun
Sometimes better to just let players vent and realize its not meant as a personal attack
What are you talking about? Wolves controlled the yeet entirely D3 because it was not mechanically possible for the town to vote all town players unless they correctly identified and all agreed on who that town was and even then, wolves could all vote each other and do whatever they want. There is zero way to mathematically ensure a wolf yeet on D3 even with perfect reads. You’ve proposed a way. I vote Wilgy. Okay. And then any wolf voting a townie Jpic and they still yeet a townie.tutuu wrote: ↑Tue Mar 30, 2021 6:34 pmwrongJackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Tue Mar 30, 2021 6:29 pm Town plays 100% perfectly -> wolves control the yeet and have to look bad but it doesn’t matter because they can take themselves off the poll.
if town played perfectly u would have voted for wilgy or jpic instead of essentially no-voting on d3. town (and ultimately u) had control there
3 wolves were taken off the poll on d3 but also a whole bunch of town. the ability was public. town could have scumread the person responsible for taking people off the poll and thunderdoming a marked target. town could have voted jpic. town could have convinced epi and hkatt to vote jpic. epi and hkatt could have listened to the other townies
wolves did not mechanically control the yeet
If so let me vent instead of firing back at me, yeah? Am i not a fellow community member?NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Tue Mar 30, 2021 6:39 pmThis seems uncalled fortutuu wrote: ↑Tue Mar 30, 2021 6:11 pmshould let players vent but hosts cant vent, they are your retail workers that are supposed to just smile and nod along am i rightNANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Tue Mar 30, 2021 6:09 pm GM and players arguing in post isn't fun
Sometimes better to just let players vent and realize its not meant as a personal attack
You know I host frequently, I am no stranger to people complaining about a setup in post. Frustrating or not, sometimes people need to vent and that's OK, responding with emotion just leads to hurt feelings and frustration on both sides. I get it, you put a lot of work into this setup and its frustrating to see people complain about or criticize it. Realize that they aren't customers venting at retail workers, they're fellow community members expressing an opinion. You can ignore that opinion if you think its wrong, but firing back does little good.
Wolves controlling the yeet but looking scummy in the circumstance of town being right =/= wolves controlling the yeet full stop though, thats obviousJackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Tue Mar 30, 2021 6:42 pmWhat are you talking about? Wolves controlled the yeet entirely D3 because it was not mechanically possible for the town to vote all town players unless they correctly identified and all agreed on who that town was and even then, wolves could all vote each other and do whatever they want. There is zero way to mathematically ensure a wolf yeet on D3 even with perfect reads. You’ve proposed a way. I vote Wilgy. Okay. And then any wolf voting a townie Jpic and they still yeet a townie.tutuu wrote: ↑Tue Mar 30, 2021 6:34 pmwrongJackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Tue Mar 30, 2021 6:29 pm Town plays 100% perfectly -> wolves control the yeet and have to look bad but it doesn’t matter because they can take themselves off the poll.
if town played perfectly u would have voted for wilgy or jpic instead of essentially no-voting on d3. town (and ultimately u) had control there
3 wolves were taken off the poll on d3 but also a whole bunch of town. the ability was public. town could have scumread the person responsible for taking people off the poll and thunderdoming a marked target. town could have voted jpic. town could have convinced epi and hkatt to vote jpic. epi and hkatt could have listened to the other townies
wolves did not mechanically control the yeet
Wolves controlled the yeet but they would look bad if they did under certain scenarios =/= town controlling the yeet.
Town did scumread the wolf left on the poll but 2/3rds of us weren’t allowed to vote.
And the point about the gladiator wasn’t “wolves controlled D4’s yeet.”
The point is that the apparent balancing mechanic to allowing wolves to entirely control D3’s yeet is that they might end up looking bad, which I’m pointing out is entirely irrelevant since wolves can remove most of their team from the poll.
A wolf gladiator is unbalanced for other reasons but we’ve already gone over player expectations and how that fits into game balance.
Im...not firing back at you?tutuu wrote: ↑Tue Mar 30, 2021 8:45 pmIf so let me vent instead of firing back at me, yeah? Am i not a fellow community member?NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Tue Mar 30, 2021 6:39 pmThis seems uncalled fortutuu wrote: ↑Tue Mar 30, 2021 6:11 pmshould let players vent but hosts cant vent, they are your retail workers that are supposed to just smile and nod along am i rightNANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Tue Mar 30, 2021 6:09 pm GM and players arguing in post isn't fun
Sometimes better to just let players vent and realize its not meant as a personal attack
You know I host frequently, I am no stranger to people complaining about a setup in post. Frustrating or not, sometimes people need to vent and that's OK, responding with emotion just leads to hurt feelings and frustration on both sides. I get it, you put a lot of work into this setup and its frustrating to see people complain about or criticize it. Realize that they aren't customers venting at retail workers, they're fellow community members expressing an opinion. You can ignore that opinion if you think its wrong, but firing back does little good.
@NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOMEtutuu wrote: ↑Tue Mar 30, 2021 8:45 pmIf so let me vent instead of firing back at me, yeah? Am i not a fellow community member?NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Tue Mar 30, 2021 6:39 pmThis seems uncalled fortutuu wrote: ↑Tue Mar 30, 2021 6:11 pmshould let players vent but hosts cant vent, they are your retail workers that are supposed to just smile and nod along am i rightNANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Tue Mar 30, 2021 6:09 pm GM and players arguing in post isn't fun
Sometimes better to just let players vent and realize its not meant as a personal attack
You know I host frequently, I am no stranger to people complaining about a setup in post. Frustrating or not, sometimes people need to vent and that's OK, responding with emotion just leads to hurt feelings and frustration on both sides. I get it, you put a lot of work into this setup and its frustrating to see people complain about or criticize it. Realize that they aren't customers venting at retail workers, they're fellow community members expressing an opinion. You can ignore that opinion if you think its wrong, but firing back does little good.
The difference is if every wolf jumps on a town wagon, town normally have the ability to mathematically counter this. Once they cease to have this power, the game is deemed to be over.tutuu wrote: ↑Tue Mar 30, 2021 8:52 pmWolves controlling the yeet but looking scummy in the circumstance of town being right =/= wolves controlling the yeet full stop though, thats obviousJackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Tue Mar 30, 2021 6:42 pmWhat are you talking about? Wolves controlled the yeet entirely D3 because it was not mechanically possible for the town to vote all town players unless they correctly identified and all agreed on who that town was and even then, wolves could all vote each other and do whatever they want. There is zero way to mathematically ensure a wolf yeet on D3 even with perfect reads. You’ve proposed a way. I vote Wilgy. Okay. And then any wolf voting a townie Jpic and they still yeet a townie.tutuu wrote: ↑Tue Mar 30, 2021 6:34 pmwrongJackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Tue Mar 30, 2021 6:29 pm Town plays 100% perfectly -> wolves control the yeet and have to look bad but it doesn’t matter because they can take themselves off the poll.
if town played perfectly u would have voted for wilgy or jpic instead of essentially no-voting on d3. town (and ultimately u) had control there
3 wolves were taken off the poll on d3 but also a whole bunch of town. the ability was public. town could have scumread the person responsible for taking people off the poll and thunderdoming a marked target. town could have voted jpic. town could have convinced epi and hkatt to vote jpic. epi and hkatt could have listened to the other townies
wolves did not mechanically control the yeet
Wolves controlled the yeet but they would look bad if they did under certain scenarios =/= town controlling the yeet.
Town did scumread the wolf left on the poll but 2/3rds of us weren’t allowed to vote.
And the point about the gladiator wasn’t “wolves controlled D4’s yeet.”
The point is that the apparent balancing mechanic to allowing wolves to entirely control D3’s yeet is that they might end up looking bad, which I’m pointing out is entirely irrelevant since wolves can remove most of their team from the poll.
A wolf gladiator is unbalanced for other reasons but we’ve already gone over player expectations and how that fits into game balance.
In a normal game a town can wagon a scum, and scum can cfd to save their wolf, looking scummy in the process
I dont see the difference
I acknowledge it was too hard and frustrating, i reject the notion that it was impossible or that towm had no chance
You not being allowed to vote for ur correct scumread on d4 does not make the game broken, since i ensured town was in control of the chop on d4 mathematically if u will. The triple neighborhood ability forced the user to target two town.
Epignosis wrote: ↑Tue Mar 30, 2021 8:53 pm Hello. Can everyone take a step back and maybe take the rest of the evening (morning, afternoon, wheresoever you may be) off?
I understand the desire to discuss balance and mechanics and all of that, and I understand both the frustrations stemming from this as a long-time host and as a long-time player, but in the end this was a game on the Internet and nobody was maimed or made poorer because of it (unless you were caught playing Mafia at work and got fired, in which case, I'm sorry, good luck on the job hunt).
Relationships > Games on the Internet
I'm not asking anybody to ignore it.
