The Syndicate

Ricochet wrote:
Nope.

ika wrote:

Ricochet wrote:
Nope.

so im null?

Matt wrote:You got a read on me yet Rico?

ika wrote:

LoRab wrote:

ika wrote:it was sig who said it...

you should get your people straight first.

but its seems to be clear that its cylons vs town witch truns into scum vs twon so all i need to do is basicly replace cylon with scum and you got your own answer

Sorry about that. It must be really nice to have never confused players before or misremembered something.

My point was that there isn't such thing as one way baddies do things. That you might not have ugly of something doesn't mean that wouldn't have been someone else's initial instinct. To assume that there is one way to think is dangerous.

And in particular, not knowing how the cylon sate organized, or even if they have BTSC, or even what their win conditions are (or anyone's win cons for that matter), I'm not sure how you could speculate that a cylon wouldn't think of something.

Linkitis: vegetarians and pescitariand rule!

did i ever say there was? im speakign in an objective view and that an objective viewpoint for scum is not going to see that right away.

i dont think its much of a stretch to think that the wincons are cylons vs everyone else, based on the lore silver gave about piolot episode it sounds like they are primary foes.

what do you think it is?

ika wrote:

Ricochet wrote:
It was no omission, it started the discussion well interested in this aspect, of the two you stated.

I have insinuated no such thing. To be incredulous to a player can't simply "do action X", when "not doing action X" is supposed to make the player suspicious, is not the same thing as saying I know "better" what actions that player would do.

I don't know how to play mafia subconsciously. Sounds esoteric.

well you should knwo that i use her reads a lot more on tryign to read her as well as sevral toher thing i have not divulged due to her not wanting it outed

you don thave to belive me one bit i know her and you saying such things is partal insuitaing that you knwo her better.

everyone does it, its the part of you that follows a wincon and makes you do actions aligned to your alignemtn. no matter what people say about meta, people have a unconscious way of playing knowing or not

Ricochet wrote:

Matt wrote:You got a read on me yet Rico?

I have a policy lynch, if it would please you, instead.

LoRab wrote:
I don't know what it is. But if it were a simple us v them, then I can't understand why host would make it that the win conditions are unknown. I think it necessarily has to be more complex.

are you saying you dont have a wincon?

So, you're saying that wolf could never change things up to consciously fool you. That seems quite insulting towards her (which I'm sure you don't intend). I don't know any couple that has ever not been wrong about each other. Yes, couples tend to read each other better. Even non-couples sometimes have a way with reading each other. But such concepts are also fallible.

I hope you realize that for your own readings and I know I will never fully believe your read just because you say so.

Scotty wrote:@JJJ what mechanics in this game are persuading you to change your usual style? I don't see that much different than a regular game to make you want to change it up, but I'm open to different strategies if they're founded.

Ricochet wrote:

ika wrote:

Ricochet wrote:
Nope.

so im null?

Neutral would be a read. I answered that I don't have a read.

Matt wrote:

Ricochet wrote:

Matt wrote:You got a read on me yet Rico?

I have a policy lynch, if it would please you, instead.

Can't get rid of me that easy, but k.

Anyway, looking over the Cylon roles...some of them have different colored names. I wonder if the Cylons are split into two btsc teams.

Weird, tho, because both Sharons, Athena and Boomer, are the same color, but I would imagine they wouldn't be on the same team because they were quite opposite in the show.

Boomer started off thinking she was human, but ended up taking on the Cylon cause. Athena knew she was a Cylon from the get go, but then rebelled against them and fought with the humans. I'm starting to wonder if the bad guys solely consist of Cylons or if some of the humans are Mafia, as well.

Ricochet wrote:By humans being Mafia, you mean the Final Five or any civilian role?

ika wrote:

LoRab wrote:
I don't know what it is. But if it were a simple us v them, then I can't understand why host would make it that the win conditions are unknown. I think it necessarily has to be more complex.

are you saying you dont have a wincon?

So, you're saying that wolf could never change things up to consciously fool you. That seems quite insulting towards her (which I'm sure you don't intend). I don't know any couple that has ever not been wrong about each other. Yes, couples tend to read each other better. Even non-couples sometimes have a way with reading each other. But such concepts are also fallible.

I hope you realize that for your own readings and I know I will never fully believe your read just because you say so.

I know she can change a few thigns here and there but she would never be able to fool me, i have said this in nearly every game now but we share empathy so we cant fake our reads/style/interaciton with each other without the other catching on. and actualy the fact she doesnt change it is a high compliment to her, i have yet to play a game where i have gotten her lynched when she was scum, as i have already said, the game where i was trying to get her lynched she got more town read based on it. she then killed me that night and cross killed by the ohter scum team cus they were town reading her so hard.

her meta is something i activly fear becasue she can win out over me. not in trying to convince me she is town but on me trying to convince ohters to lycnh her.

and i know most people wont belive me jsut shouting it so...... ya....

i mean you admited yoruself we have yet to fail reading so i will continue to do it. most times she ends up saving me thoguth :P

ika wrote:

Ricochet wrote:

ika wrote:

Ricochet wrote:
Nope.

so im null?

Neutral would be a read. I answered that I don't have a read.

everyone has a read on someone, saying you dont have one means i am at best null

but i will follow,why do you have no read on me?

Matt wrote:

Ricochet wrote:By humans being Mafia, you mean the Final Five or any civilian role?

Any civilian role. Well, not any, but specifically a few...

Gaius, Felix, and Tom Zarek come to mind as a few humans who could potentially be on a Mafia team, I would think. Maybe not Gaius, I guess it depends on your PoV.

Ricochet wrote:

ika wrote:

Ricochet wrote:
Nope.

so im null?

Neutral would be a read. I answered that I don't have a read.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Ricochet wrote:

ika wrote:

Ricochet wrote:
Nope.

so im null?

Neutral would be a read. I answered that I don't have a read.

I don't think it's possible to have the complete absence of a read on someone you've been having a conversation with. If that's how you feel, then the read is neutral/null by default. You haven't felt any inclination at all to this point in your chat to read ika one way or another, even if he's only moved a fraction of a smidgen from the center? That's surprising.

indiglo wrote:

Ricochet wrote:

DrumBeats wrote:

sig wrote:@HOST Will the final five know if they are cylons after the game starts. Or will it be revealed to them later?

Well Fine no helping solve the puzzle.


A

Looking back, minor townread on Sig right now for that question to the host. Final five mechanics, from what I understand of them, is something that makes a town player unknowingly scum. I do not feel like Sig would ask this if it did not apply to Sig, so I currently believe that Sig is either one of the final five, or a town player.

Wait, I revisited this post and I'm confused a bit by it, especially the underlined part. Why couldn't Sig be a Cylon (original) asking about the Final Five?

I think that's a definite possibility. I posted earlier about the 3 options I came up with that would allow a civ/townie to ask such a question. Now it's possible he is a civ/townie that isn't exempt from Cylonism, but to me it still seems like an odd question. Because he would have been told in his role pm that he was a human and secret Cylon. Or he would have been told he was a human, with no mention of being a secret Cylon. Either way, he would already know the answer to his question if he were a Human/civ/townie, simply by reading his role pm.

To me, asking that question makes more sense coming from a Cylon. But I am also aware everyone thinks differently. I am surprised this hasn't received more attention than it has, unless no one else reads it as odd. But I would still like more input from others, even if they don't think it's odd.



JJJ (can't I just call you P50 still?) - you do you, bro. Unless you really want to alter your play style. I understand your hesitancy to proclaim town reads this game, since those townies may be susceptible to being revealed as Cylons later (and possible town enemies). But still, you'll have those reads in your head at least, and will have to be aware enough to watch for changes in behavior from those town reads... so we may as well all watch for them together. Ya dig? I say play how you want to.

Ricochet wrote:

Matt wrote:

Ricochet wrote:By humans being Mafia, you mean the Final Five or any civilian role?

Any civilian role. Well, not any, but specifically a few...

Gaius, Felix, and Tom Zarek come to mind as a few humans who could potentially be on a Mafia team, I would think. Maybe not Gaius, I guess it depends on your PoV.

I find this to be pure Matttalk, the Host was clear that the Final Five would be randomised, if this concerns them (and whether they will switch to mafia or anti-civ). Any civilians besides the potential F5 ones would constitute civilian traitors and should normally mess with the game balance.

Then again, this game is a semi closed setup and I've been known to burn my face off before with thinking the game would be too straightforward.

LoRab wrote:
No. I'm just saying that the host posts clearly state that the win cons aren't posted. It does not make sense to post that if there are simple win-cons and teams. That wouldn't make sense.

actualy it would, for someone who was askign me why i think stuff, you seem to be narrow minded on that

So, either you are insulting her for her inability to change up her play or you are insulting all other couples playing this game because your relationship is that much deeper.

Or neither? i already said her inabilty to change it isnt ment to be an insult and thefact you are twisting it to me like that is insulint in itself. as i have said i fear her scum game

Either way, I don't buy it. I buy that you believe it, but I don't think that it's impossible for either of you to fool the other. I just don't. And I haven't played with either of you enough to even begin to trust your read of each other.

wasnt trying to convince you to begin with? i mean i get you wont buy it and i already said that. i think your misunderstanding what im saying by how deep our bond is. we live in 2 seprate state but we never fail to knwo each others emotuonsal distress. i mean i can be doing nothing and out of nowhere i just know somethings worng with silver and she does the same. i dont think everyone can do that. when i rolled scum against her, she knew very qucikly as you have seen if you check the games. when she rolled scum against me i could jsut sense something was off with her. its something i cant explain at all i jsut know shes scum. so if you want to argue that every couple has this and im insulting that plz go right ahead and show me how they all have such thing

And those that I do trust their read of each other with--I also know that sometimes they are wrong. Even the couples that are empathetic towards each other and have been married for years.

it will be a cold day in hell when that happens to one of us. the only timeit might ever happen is if we were both scums on opposing teams. if you knwo coulples that have the empathy im decribing i would like to hear it as well

You are welcome to have your thoughts about Wolf, whether or not they are niavely based. But just know that not everyone is going to jump onto believing you just because.

i know that? did i ever once say everyone should listen to me?

Also, it's always possible for you to be bad together...so...yeah.


im waiting for that game to happen, we would be very diffrent.

Ricochet wrote:As for smidgens and such, I believe I was asked for a read, not for smidgens or fractions. I don't believe it's surprising that I come with some sort of argumented text, that constitutes my read, when I have such material to publish.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Ricochet wrote:As for smidgens and such, I believe I was asked for a read, not for smidgens or fractions. I don't believe it's surprising that I come with some sort of argumented text, that constitutes my read, when I have such material to publish.

Gun to head read on ika, GO

sig wrote:I'm pretty sure one color is people who are on the colonies and the others are on the ship right?

LoRab wrote:

indiglo wrote:

Ricochet wrote:

DrumBeats wrote:

sig wrote:@HOST Will the final five know if they are cylons after the game starts. Or will it be revealed to them later?

Well Fine no helping solve the puzzle.


A

Looking back, minor townread on Sig right now for that question to the host. Final five mechanics, from what I understand of them, is something that makes a town player unknowingly scum. I do not feel like Sig would ask this if it did not apply to Sig, so I currently believe that Sig is either one of the final five, or a town player.

Wait, I revisited this post and I'm confused a bit by it, especially the underlined part. Why couldn't Sig be a Cylon (original) asking about the Final Five?

I think that's a definite possibility. I posted earlier about the 3 options I came up with that would allow a civ/townie to ask such a question. Now it's possible he is a civ/townie that isn't exempt from Cylonism, but to me it still seems like an odd question. Because he would have been told in his role pm that he was a human and secret Cylon. Or he would have been told he was a human, with no mention of being a secret Cylon. Either way, he would already know the answer to his question if he were a Human/civ/townie, simply by reading his role pm.

To me, asking that question makes more sense coming from a Cylon. But I am also aware everyone thinks differently. I am surprised this hasn't received more attention than it has, unless no one else reads it as odd. But I would still like more input from others, even if they don't think it's odd.



JJJ (can't I just call you P50 still?) - you do you, bro. Unless you really want to alter your play style. I understand your hesitancy to proclaim town reads this game, since those townies may be susceptible to being revealed as Cylons later (and possible town enemies). But still, you'll have those reads in your head at least, and will have to be aware enough to watch for changes in behavior from those town reads... so we may as well all watch for them together. Ya dig? I say play how you want to.

And how about that. Those of you that said Sig were wrong, too. The viewpoint I was referring to was from Indi. Sorry for confusing you with Nero, Indi.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:*spreadsheets Ricochet as "willfully uncooperative, Day 1*

Matt wrote:

Ricochet wrote:

Matt wrote:

Ricochet wrote:By humans being Mafia, you mean the Final Five or any civilian role?

Any civilian role. Well, not any, but specifically a few...

Gaius, Felix, and Tom Zarek come to mind as a few humans who could potentially be on a Mafia team, I would think. Maybe not Gaius, I guess it depends on your PoV.

I find this to be pure Matttalk, the Host was clear that the Final Five would be randomised, if this concerns them (and whether they will switch to mafia or anti-civ). Any civilians besides the potential F5 ones would constitute civilian traitors and should normally mess with the game balance.

Then again, this game is a semi closed setup and I've been known to burn my face off before with thinking the game would be too straightforward.

Pure Matttalk? Haha.

The Final Five has nothing to do with what I'm saying. Pretend they don't even exist for a moment.

What I'm saying, is that I think regular human non-cylons could be Mafia. It seems you've also seen the show, do you disagree with me that it's possible any or all of the names I mentioned could be Mafia?

Take into consideration, also, that the role list isn't divided between "civs" and "mafia", just "humans" and "cylons". And there are some Cylons (again, Athena, and the Final Five minus Tory) that could be considered "civs", so no I don't think it's "purely Matttalk".

Matt wrote:

Ricochet wrote:

Matt wrote:

Ricochet wrote:By humans being Mafia, you mean the Final Five or any civilian role?

Any civilian role. Well, not any, but specifically a few...

Gaius, Felix, and Tom Zarek come to mind as a few humans who could potentially be on a Mafia team, I would think. Maybe not Gaius, I guess it depends on your PoV.

I find this to be pure Matttalk, the Host was clear that the Final Five would be randomised, if this concerns them (and whether they will switch to mafia or anti-civ). Any civilians besides the potential F5 ones would constitute civilian traitors and should normally mess with the game balance.

Then again, this game is a semi closed setup and I've been known to burn my face off before with thinking the game would be too straightforward.

Pure Matttalk? Haha.

The Final Five has nothing to do with what I'm saying. Pretend they don't even exist for a moment.

What I'm saying, is that I think regular human non-cylons could be Mafia. It seems you've also seen the show, do you disagree with me that it's possible any or all of the names I mentioned could be Mafia?

Take into consideration, also, that the role list isn't divided between "civs" and "mafia", just "humans" and "cylons". And there are some Cylons (again, Athena, and the Final Five minus Tory) that could be considered "civs", so no I don't think it's "purely Matttalk".

ika wrote:

LoRab wrote:
No. I'm just saying that the host posts clearly state that the win cons aren't posted. It does not make sense to post that if there are simple win-cons and teams. That wouldn't make sense.

actualy it would, for someone who was askign me why i think stuff, you seem to be narrow minded on that

So, either you are insulting her for her inability to change up her play or you are insulting all other couples playing this game because your relationship is that much deeper.

Or neither? i already said her inabilty to change it isnt ment to be an insult and thefact you are twisting it to me like that is insulint in itself. as i have said i fear her scum game

Either way, I don't buy it. I buy that you believe it, but I don't think that it's impossible for either of you to fool the other. I just don't. And I haven't played with either of you enough to even begin to trust your read of each other.

wasnt trying to convince you to begin with? i mean i get you wont buy it and i already said that. i think your misunderstanding what im saying by how deep our bond is. we live in 2 seprate state but we never fail to knwo each others emotuonsal distress. i mean i can be doing nothing and out of nowhere i just know somethings worng with silver and she does the same. i dont think everyone can do that. when i rolled scum against her, she knew very qucikly as you have seen if you check the games. when she rolled scum against me i could jsut sense something was off with her. its something i cant explain at all i jsut know shes scum. so if you want to argue that every couple has this and im insulting that plz go right ahead and show me how they all have such thing

And those that I do trust their read of each other with--I also know that sometimes they are wrong. Even the couples that are empathetic towards each other and have been married for years.

it will be a cold day in hell when that happens to one of us. the only timeit might ever happen is if we were both scums on opposing teams. if you knwo coulples that have the empathy im decribing i would like to hear it as well

You are welcome to have your thoughts about Wolf, whether or not they are niavely based. But just know that not everyone is going to jump onto believing you just because.

i know that? did i ever once say everyone should listen to me?

Also, it's always possible for you to be bad together...so...yeah.


im waiting for that game to happen, we would be very diffrent.

Matt wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:*spreadsheets Ricochet as "willfully uncooperative, Day 1*

Fo sho.

Rico, so you don't believe it's possible that Felix or Tom Zarek (or even Gaius) could be "mafia" ?

Ricochet wrote:@Host: Do we find nothing throughout the game about the Cylons's powers?

Do the eight Cylons have BTSC?

Each person who is a cylon was given their own role powers in a PM, so they found out about at least one cylon's powers. It is entirely possible that they found out they don't have any, or that they do have some.

Beyond that...

For the most part (hopefully the whole part) things that are currently secret are designed to be currently secret. This doesn't mean they will necessarily always be that way. It also doesn't mean you shouldn't ask, because it is possible that there are things I haven't said that I don't intend to be secret.

But, regarding how much info you have about the cylons - what you see is what you've got.

Note also in the 'important information' post the part about secret abilities.

indiglo wrote:toaster sympathizers

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:*spreadsheets Ricochet as "willfully uncooperative, Day 1*

LoRab wrote:
1. Then please explain why a host would make win conditions unknown in a game that was a simple, typically structured game.

WIFOM, if you knew my hosting i would do something like this, not only thta i have seen tons of closed games that look super complex but are really jsut mafia vs town on the base. techancly speaking all game son the surface are mafia vs town.

2. OK, maybe that works for you. If someone told me I was incapable of change, it would be very insulting to me. I guess I'm just putting my own lens on what you said. But, really, I would not accept someone who told me I couldn't convincingly play a game of strategy with them.

more power to you. silver knows that what i say is praise to her. shes out atm but i know when she catches up she will clarify a lot of what is under your lens vs what we see

3. I'm not going to speak for the connections that other people have and what words they use to define and describe their connection. I don't buy that your connection is any deeper or qualitatively different in terms of ability to read each others' games.

again, where did i say you ahve to?

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Given that the toasters are divided into two colors like the humans, does anyone think we should be perceiving them as separate toaster teams? I ask because eight seems like a huge number for just one team.

Ricochet wrote:

sig wrote:I'm pretty sure one color is people who are on the colonies and the others are on the ship right?

You're talking with Matt.

Ricochet wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Given that the toasters are divided into two colors like the humans, does anyone think we should be perceiving them as separate toaster teams? I ask because eight seems like a huge number for just one team.

Welcome to Matt and Rico talk show, 20 minutes ago.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:I have an early town read on DrumBeats and Silverwolf, not for their part in solving the pre-game puzzle but for their treatment of other players relative to that puzzle. They both set out to generate reads based on the information available to them whether I agree with the methods or not, and that's worth some points to me.

ika's early play can be contrasted to what he put out in Turf Wars and the scrimmage on at least one front: he isn't voicing an absurd degree of confidence in his reads and appears to be working them out in a meaningful process. That's a decent look, even if it's just meta.

sig wrote:

Ricochet wrote:

sig wrote:I'm pretty sure one color is people who are on the colonies and the others are on the ship right?

You're talking with Matt.

Wait What?

Ricochet wrote:I think that human non-cylons being Mafia merely because there were conflicting stories and antagonists within the human universe of the show would be a stretch in the current balance we're supposedly dealing with.

Why is the humans v cylons separation of roles unsatisfying for you on a civs vs mafia level?

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Ricochet wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Given that the toasters are divided into two colors like the humans, does anyone think we should be perceiving them as separate toaster teams? I ask because eight seems like a huge number for just one team.

Welcome to Matt and Rico talk show, 20 minutes ago.

I thought y'all were talking about the Final Five, which I'm not. Anyway, what's your take?

indiglo wrote:TBH that "So say we all" rule is not necessarily a common type of role here either. (So far as I am aware.) I'm surprised more people haven't forgotten about it! It sounded kind of like Golden is giving us all a free day on these kinds of technical issues anyway, so hopefully it won't be a problem for anyone today.

I think keeping track of who forgets to do so could potentially prove helpful, just to see if there are consequences and/or what they might be. Unless they are made public by Admiral Golden.

Punishments for role breaches will not be made public by me, although it is possible that sometimes they will be visible in the thread. I am not giving people a free day on that particular rule. I've kept a very careful list, and Ricochet was down a name

nutella wrote:this game is confusing :/

after a quick readthrough the player who sticks out to me the most is ika I guess. Not only do I find his rife-with-ignored-typos posts difficult and obnoxious to read, I'm unsure what to think of his fierce insistence on being able to read silverwolf no matter what, and the back-and-forth with Rico has been interesting to say the least. To some extent I understand the idea that some players might not really be able to help how they behave as civ or scum (I have been guilty of it myself). But the way he's talking about it and not allowing for any possibility he could be wrong is just really setting me off.

I wouldn't say he's necessarily vote-worthy for it yet, he's just so far the only blip on my radar, and day 1 for me usually involves having no clue who to really suspect and just voting for the strongest slight ping, so something else could come up.

nutella wrote:this game is confusing :/

after a quick readthrough the player who sticks out to me the most is ika I guess. Not only do I find his rife-with-ignored-typos posts difficult and obnoxious to read, I'm unsure what to think of his fierce insistence on being able to read silverwolf no matter what, and the back-and-forth with Rico has been interesting to say the least. To some extent I understand the idea that some players might not really be able to help how they behave as civ or scum (I have been guilty of it myself). But the way he's talking about it and not allowing for any possibility he could be wrong is just really setting me off.

I wouldn't say he's necessarily vote-worthy for it yet, he's just so far the only blip on my radar, and day 1 for me usually involves having no clue who to really suspect and just voting for the strongest slight ping, so something else could come up.

Golden wrote:

indiglo wrote:TBH that "So say we all" rule is not necessarily a common type of role here either. (So far as I am aware.) I'm surprised more people haven't forgotten about it! It sounded kind of like Golden is giving us all a free day on these kinds of technical issues anyway, so hopefully it won't be a problem for anyone today.

I think keeping track of who forgets to do so could potentially prove helpful, just to see if there are consequences and/or what they might be. Unless they are made public by Admiral Golden.

Punishments for role breaches will not be made public by me, although it is possible that sometimes they will be visible in the thread. I am not giving people a free day on that particular rule. I've kept a very careful list, and Ricochet was down a name