Philosophers' Mafia [ENDGAME]

[Amy]

Tutu if you’re town it probably is correct to not be voting yet fwiw

Nanook, if you're town, you should have listened to my reads ages ago.

I am not unvoting the wolf.

yeah hally/lc team rescinded this is a wolf glgl

[Amy]

hally nanook hard deconfirmed

leaves:
tutuu/nanook
tutuu/lc
hally/lc

we learn morw when lc shows i guess

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

If you’re trying to get me to vote with you that’s not how to do it lol

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

I know I’m usually the “hammer fast and hammer hard” guy but I don’t think this is the time for fast votes

[tutuu]

If you’re trying to get me to vote with you that’s not how to do it lol

I am telling you the truth. You do what you want. I'm not going to suck up to you and treat you like a pretty princess.

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

K

So you’re either mafia going after the town vote in Hally/LC

Or you’re town being an asshole and assuming lone wolf


I’m not asking you to suck up to me I’m literally just saying that if you’re town voting this early is likely incorrect

[Amy]

if i call nanook v for peek related reasons

lc being 3p means tutuu/hally 100% w/w

lc being wolf means one villa in tutuu/hally

idk what correct play is tbh. headaches back

[tutuu]

I'm not an asshole. You're extremely thin-skinned and yet you talk smack to others people all the time. This always bothered me about you.

Amy has been extremely obvious Mafia in every single universe. And I am not assuming lone wolf necessarily.

I have put 10000 times more effort than normal to prove Amy is wolf.

If you can't see it it's not my fault. Play better!

[Amy]

the way tutuu's playing makes me think tutuu/lc

if games still on when i wake up i reread to analyze that possibility

done wasting posts for now

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

Idk why you’re making this personal but cool I guess

If you’re town I’m trying to figure this out and literally all you’re saying is “fuck you if you don’t already believe me,” I don’t see any reason for me to continue to engage with this. Probably should’ve not bothered to begin with ig

[tutuu]

You can try reading my posts on Day 5 and Night 5 and you see why Amy is scum for yourself!

[Hally]

i just reread to see where and how amy voted kza. here’s the vote:

kinda wanna kill kza tbh

i understand he has a reputation of not playing the game even as town but in the champs game i observed it wasn't... this bad

[VOTE: KZA] aubergine

16/60

this is the extent to which amy “pushes” kza

it’s just this post

this is on page 12 after benson was already voting kza and repeatedly saying he was scum

it was also after amy was already under a ton of pressure herself and may have tried to get anti-spewy

i don’t believe this is clearing in any way, shape or form. i would hardly even call it a push. it’s a vote on a wolf under pressure from someone who was also under pressure

amy did not push kza or advocate his yeet again until after nanook began pushing him and got the votes on him

amy was away from the thread for a long time in between her vote on kza and when nanook began dunking him. it’s possible in fairness to her that she would have pushed kza harder but couldn’t. she claims her internet was out and i have no reason to disbelieve that

however her saying she pushed kza is kind of an overstatement

she voted him after benson was pushing him, was gone from the thread, then returned after nanook had dunked kza and he had four or five other people voting him

amy could not get off kza’s wagon at that point. it was a few hours before EoD when she re-entered and all the momentum was headed towards a kza yeet. if she is a wolf she was stuck there

so i have to say that i don’t find the argument of “i’d never have bussed kza that hard D1” convincing

i would say, just from how it appears in the thread, that the vote can easily be a bus. regardless of her alignment, amy was not at all instrumental to kza eventually becoming the yeet. at this point in the game, i would assign extremely minimal credit to amy for it

it somewhat bothers me how much i believe amy is overstating her push on kza and the extent to which she should be cleared or receive town cred off it

[Hally]

i’m going to be frank and say i am heavily leaning towards voting amy

the alternative is that i entertain worlds in which either
- tutuu has fake claimed cop, outed a partner D2 after two of her teammates have already been killed and been blindingly villagery the whole game even independent of her claim
- nanook is a wolf dayvig who used his kill on outed mafia after two teammates already died (both of whom he pushed for hard) instead of dayviging the claimed cop or the claimed redirector or anyone else
- lc is a wolf who set up this fake 3P claim from the very beginning of the game and snap fake claimed that he ate the N1 kill before i ever said anything

i don’t think i can realistically entertain these words enough to bet the game on them

the simplest world by far is that amy is the last wolf and lc is 3P as he claims (or mafia with amy)

if this isn’t the case, it means either nanook just murdered his whole team with his bare hands as quickly as possible (which i don’t believe) or tutuu outed a third teammate after two already died when she totally didn’t need to (which i also don’t believe)

if we had actually been able to yeet lc last day like i wanted and iaafr had not gotten himself modkilled, we would actually have the numbers right now for me to feel confident just voting amy. it would be 4 town and 1 wolf instead of 3 town, 1 wolf, and 1 unknown. it’s extremely unfortunate we are in this position and it was entirely avoidable

[tutuu]

Feel free to vote whenever you want, if possible at the same time LC is in the thread.

I'd like to make it proven I'm not w/w with him and lock the game.

If anyone is paranoid of Amy still being town: I am not insisting we quickhammer. I am simply expressing my subjective opinion on what Hally should do. Because I know that I'm town and being honest with what's in my head.

We can discuss all we want.

I am never unvoting.

[Hally]

i won’t be voting any time soon

i’d like lc to check in and confirm i’m not w/w with him

then the only worlds will be
1) amy solo wolf, lc 3P
2) amy wolf, lc wolf
3) tutuu wolf, nanook wolf, lc 3P
4) tutuu wolf, lc wolf

lc checking in and no hammer should confirm a wolf within amy/tutuu, correct?

[tutuu]

There are worlds where you are wolf too

"lc checking in and no hammer should confirm a wolf within amy/tutuu, correct?"

Yes

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

i won’t be voting any time soon

i’d like lc to check in and confirm i’m not w/w with him

then the only worlds will be
1) amy solo wolf, lc 3P
2) amy wolf, lc wolf
3) tutuu wolf, nanook wolf, lc 3P
4) tutuu wolf, lc wolf

lc checking in and no hammer should confirm a wolf within amy/tutuu, correct?

Yeh I think so, assuming we’re both online while he is

[Hally]

i was gonna suggest yeeting lc but idk if that is something we can afford

so like, say we do that

whether he is a wolf or 3P, we get 3/1 going into the night with amy, tutuu, me and nanook

then i can redirect amy (assuming redirect takes priority over block, which i will double check). if she’s the last wolf, i make her kill tutuu and this outs amy because there is always a wolf in amy/tutuu

if tutuu lives, it’s 2 town and 1 wolf and we know that amy cannot be the wolf or else tutuu would be dead. so then tutuu is confirmed as the last wolf and we just yeet her in F3?

actually tutuu cannot even be a solo wolf because i redirected her to amy and amy didn’t die. also amy claims to be blocked, which means that i could not have been blocked in a wolf!tutuu world

so tutuu can only be a wolf with either lc or nanook, and this assumes there are even two wolves left

if we yeet lc and he flips 3P, we rule out the tutuu/lc and amy/lc worlds

but if we yeet lc and he is 3P and the team is either amy/nanook (is this possible) or tutuu/nanook, it will be 2 vs 2 and we lose

so the only possible way we lose by yeeting lc is if there are two wolves left and neither of them is lc

but this requires people to trust that i’m not wolf with amy, because theoretically a team of amy/me wins if we yeet lc here

i know i’m town so this seems like a legit option to me but i can’t really convince tutuu to bet the game on this

idk it is a plan though and i would like it on the table at least

[tutuu]

Let's wait for LC to come, confirm a wolf in Tutuu and Amy, and yeet in Tutuu and Amy. Seems like the most sensible course of action.

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

Even if we assume for the sake of argument you’re 100% town, it just ends up with f4, yeah? ScumTutu holds the kill to avoid clearing Amy, scumAmy holds the kill to avoid outing.

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

I guess I’m assuming that mafia are able to hold kills, I don’t see why they wouldn’t be able to tho

[tutuu]

Even if we assume for the sake of argument you’re 100% town, it just ends up with f4, yeah? ScumTutu holds the kill to avoid clearing Amy, scumAmy holds the kill to avoid outing.

Not sure what you mean in the second sentence

[tutuu]

Nvm you were talking to Hally

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

Even if we assume for the sake of argument you’re 100% town, it just ends up with f4, yeah? ScumTutu holds the kill to avoid clearing Amy, scumAmy holds the kill to avoid outing.

Not sure what you mean in the second sentence

In the scenario Hally proposed, whichever of you/Amy is mafia would not make a kill (hold the kill, holster the kill, no kill, whatever terminology you want to use)

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

I have to peace out a bit for my own sanity/to get some sleep hopefully

Maybe the answer will come to me in a dream

[Hally]

can i just rule out a nanook/tutuu w/w world with lc as 3P?

or a amy/nanook w/w workd with lc as 3P?

i really dont think that there can be two wolves AND a 3P left and if there are i will say gg w/e especially if it’s tutuu/nanook because on its face that is by far the most unlikely world to me. if those are the last two then fine, you can win

i basically think that either lc is a wolf and there is one other (either amy or tutuu) or lc is 3P and there is only one wolf (amy or tutuu)

i just... cannot realistically see how a two wolf + 1 3P world makes sense

that would mean 5 wolves and 1 3P in a wolf!radishes world, which is a ridiculous split

or 4 wolves and 1 3P in a town!radishes world, but i don’t think we can be in a town!radishes world

ALSO in a town!radishes world, lc has to be 3P basically otherwise why would he claim his vest broke? in a town!radishes world that only works if lc is mafia who fake claimed the vest or if radishes was town!vig in addition to nanook and nut, both of whom have to be town in this world

i kinda just wanna rule that out. town!radishes is not possible unless lc is mafia, and in that world lc is good yeet. and i also rule out the 5 wolves + 1 3P world because it’s dumb

so we have 1 wolf and 1 3P OR 2 wolves (one of whom must be lc and the other of whom must be amy or tutuu)

nanook is just lock town if i rule out 5 wolves plus 1 3P

the worlds can only be
- tutuu wolf, lc wolf
- amy wolf, lc wolf
- amy wolf, lc 3P

that’s it. so yeeting lc licks the game for town regardless of whether he’s 3P or mafia and regardless of who in amy/tutuu is the wolf

i believe we cannot lose if we yeet lc here

[Hally]

Even if we assume for the sake of argument you’re 100% town, it just ends up with f4, yeah? ScumTutu holds the kill to avoid clearing Amy, scumAmy holds the kill to avoid outing.

mafia cannot holster their kill, it’s compulsory. i checked

[Hally]

ALSO in a town!radishes world, lc has to be 3P basically otherwise why would he claim his vest broke? in a town!radishes world that only works if lc is mafia who fake claimed the vest or if radishes was town!vig in addition to nanook and nut, both of whom have to be town in this world

i kinda just wanna rule that out. town!radishes is not possible unless lc is mafia, and in that world lc is good yeet. and i also rule out the 5 wolves + 1 3P world because it’s dumb

i worded this extremely poorly

essentially, in a town!radishes world, either
1) radishes was a vig along with nut? i guess nanook can possibly be mafia dayvig in this world, but nah. i’m not betting the game on radishes being exactly vig. that’s dumb. ruling this option out
2) lc is mafia who fake claimed his vest after he saw the mafia kill didnt go through. my redirect is irrelevant in this world and the mafia kill was eaten by a doc save

if option 1 is ruled out, a town!radishes world means lc is mafia and only mafia

a wolf!radishes world means lc is 3P or wolf but that it’s impossible for there to be two wolves OUTSIDE of lc

it’s either amy or tutuu as wolf and then lc as wolf or 3P

in whatever world, we lock the game if we yeet lc here

this is the way i think

[tutuu]

Not in the world where you are w/w with Amy.

You will not be allowed to yeet LC today Hally.

Today's yeet is between Tutuu and Amy and that's final.

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

Even if we assume for the sake of argument you’re 100% town, it just ends up with f4, yeah? ScumTutu holds the kill to avoid clearing Amy, scumAmy holds the kill to avoid outing.

mafia cannot holster their kill, it’s compulsory. i checked

Oh really? Nice.

Yeah lemme think about this when I’m not about to pass out

[tutuu]

so the only possible way we lose by yeeting lc is if there are two wolves left and neither of them is lc

There are way too many ways this could go very very wrong.

[Hally]

Not in the world where you are w/w with Amy.

You will not be allowed to yeet LC today Hally.

Today's yeet is between Tutuu and Amy and that's final.

well yea, you don’t know i’m town

that’s why i said i will never convince you to vote lc

and i will never convince amy to do that either because once lc checks in she knows you are lock wolf from her pov just like you know she is from yours

so you both will cross vote always

and then lc obviously will not vote himself

so the only person who realistically could vote lc are me and nanook, which is not enough votes

but amy might do it because if she doesn’t then i will yeet her today. lc is her only out regardless of her alignment because i am never voting you today

so i have leverage over her. i don’t need to convince you if i can force amy to vote lc and also convince nanook that this is the way

you can do what you want

[Hally]

so the only possible way we lose by yeeting lc is if there are two wolves left and neither of them is lc

There are way too many ways this could go very very wrong.

please list them all

[tutuu]

Not in the world where you are w/w with Amy.

You will not be allowed to yeet LC today Hally.

Today's yeet is between Tutuu and Amy and that's final.

well yea, you don’t know i’m town

that’s why i said i will never convince you to vote lc

and i will never convince amy to do that either because once lc checks in she knows you are lock wolf from her pov just like you know she is from yours

so you both will cross vote always

and then lc obviously will not vote himself

so the only person who realistically could vote lc are me and nanook, which is not enough votes

but amy might do it because if she doesn’t then i will yeet her today. lc is her only out regardless of her alignment because i am never voting you today

so i have leverage over her. i don’t need to convince you if i can force amy to vote lc and also convince nanook that this is the way

you can do what you want

yea, what they said ^

Please don't take this as me needling you Nanook, I'm sure you will come to the conclusion yourself, but if you vote for LC, Hally and Amy (if both wolves) are gonna blitz and that's still a world I'm paranoid of. I believe we don't have any reason to believe Hally and Amy still can't be w/w.

so the only possible way we lose by yeeting lc is if there are two wolves left and neither of them is lc

There are way too many ways this could go very very wrong.

please list them all

Hally + Amy
Hally + Nanook
Hally + Tutuu
Amy + Nanook
Amy + Tutuu
Nanook + Tutuu

Obviously we can clear a lot of these but the fact remains that, if there is 1 confirmed wolf between Tutuu and Amy, it is extremely silly to yeet outside of those two.

[Hally]

Not in the world where you are w/w with Amy.

You will not be allowed to yeet LC today Hally.

Today's yeet is between Tutuu and Amy and that's final.

well yea, you don’t know i’m town

that’s why i said i will never convince you to vote lc

and i will never convince amy to do that either because once lc checks in she knows you are lock wolf from her pov just like you know she is from yours

so you both will cross vote always

and then lc obviously will not vote himself

so the only person who realistically could vote lc are me and nanook, which is not enough votes

but amy might do it because if she doesn’t then i will yeet her today. lc is her only out regardless of her alignment because i am never voting you today

so i have leverage over her. i don’t need to convince you if i can force amy to vote lc and also convince nanook that this is the way

you can do what you want

yea, what they said ^

Please don't take this as me needling you Nanook, I'm sure you will come to the conclusion yourself, but if you vote for LC, Hally and Amy (if both wolves) are gonna blitz and that's still a world I'm paranoid of. I believe we don't have any reason to believe Hally and Amy still can't be w/w.

so the only possible way we lose by yeeting lc is if there are two wolves left and neither of them is lc

There are way too many ways this could go very very wrong.

please list them all

Hally + Amy
Hally + Nanook
Hally + Tutuu
Amy + Nanook
Amy + Tutuu
Nanook + Tutuu

Obviously we can clear a lot of these but the fact remains that, if there is 1 confirmed wolf between Tutuu and Amy, it is extremely silly to yeet outside of those two.

but the thing is i don’t believe that there can be two wolves left plus a 3P!lc, because it means either radishes was town or the split was 11/5/1. i don’t think either of those are the case and i feel comfortable betting the game on that

in my view if there are two wolves left lc is one of them, so yeeting him is correct, and if he’s 3P, only one wolf remains, which is confirmed to not be you since i redirected you to amy and she didn’t die

so removing the possibility of lc being mafia actually locks you as town from my pov and makes the game unwinnable for wolf!amy

whereas right now i can’t know if you are a wolf with lc, and if you are then us yeeting town!amy loses us the game and you/lc win

so this is my perspective. in my mind yeeting lc confirms a town win, whereas yeeting amy MAY result in a loss

[tutuu]

You just said you are set on yeeting Amy, Hally.

What is causing you to change your mind?

Getting cold feet?

[tutuu]

If anyone believes LC is Mafia, vote for me, because I am objectively his most likely Mafia partner, if I am Mafia.

Anyone voting outside of Tutuu/Amy once LC checks in and confirms there is 1 wolf in there, is gamethrowing.

[Hally]

You just said you are set on yeeting Amy, Hally.

What is causing you to change your mind?

Getting cold feet?

i said that i am set on yeeting amy if and only if lc is not an option

if i’m absolutely forced to choose between you and her, i will vote her

but i would rather not be forced to choose and just mech lock it instead

[tutuu]

If anyone believes LC is Mafia, vote for me, because I am objectively his most likely Mafia partner, if I am Mafia.

Anyone voting outside of Tutuu/Amy once LC checks in and confirms there is 1 wolf in there, is gamethrowing.

Gamethrowing or Mafia*

[Hally]

If anyone believes LC is Mafia, vote for me, because I am objectively his most likely Mafia partner, if I am Mafia.

Anyone voting outside of Tutuu/Amy once LC checks in and confirms there is 1 wolf in there, is gamethrowing.

nah

if you’re town, you dismissing any perspective that isn’t your own is really unproductive

i’m not trying to convince you. i understand that is impossible because you’ve made up your mind. so let the people that actually do want to talk to each other and consider every course of action do that and you can just sit here

[tutuu]

I am not dismissing perspectives that aren't my own just because they aren't my own.

I am dismissing perspectives that are terrible and anti-town.

[Hally]

I am not dismissing perspectives that aren't my own just because they aren't my own.

I am dismissing perspectives that are terrible and anti-town.

tutuu, you advocated for yeeting me yesterday over amy or lc

so i’m sorry to say that im not so keen to trust your judgment when you say other people are pushing terrible, anti-town things

just stop. let nanook and i talk about this. you’ve made your position clear

[Long Con]

Hi dudes!

[Hally]

posting to confirm not w/w with lc

[Long Con]

I absolutely would have tried to kill you N1 as a wolf

I know that's what you tried to do. Benson saved me N1.

Again, that's not accurate. I survived the N1 kill, not you.

hally nanook hard deconfirmed

leaves:
tutuu/nanook
tutuu/lc
hally/lc

we learn more when lc shows i guess

The education is thus: I'm still 3p, still townsiding.

i’m going to be frank and say i am heavily leaning towards voting amy

the alternative is that i entertain worlds in which either
- tutuu has fake claimed cop, outed a partner D2 after two of her teammates have already been killed and been blindingly villagery the whole game even independent of her claim
- nanook is a wolf dayvig who used his kill on outed mafia after two teammates already died (both of whom he pushed for hard) instead of dayviging the claimed cop or the claimed redirector or anyone else
- lc is a wolf who set up this fake 3P claim from the very beginning of the game and snap fake claimed that he ate the N1 kill before i ever said anything

i don’t think i can realistically entertain these words enough to bet the game on them

the simplest world by far is that amy is the last wolf and lc is 3P as he claims (or mafia with amy)

if this isn’t the case, it means either nanook just murdered his whole team with his bare hands as quickly as possible (which i don’t believe) or tutuu outed a third teammate after two already died when she totally didn’t need to (which i also don’t believe)

if we had actually been able to yeet lc last day like i wanted and iaafr had not gotten himself modkilled, we would actually have the numbers right now for me to feel confident just voting amy. it would be 4 town and 1 wolf instead of 3 town, 1 wolf, and 1 unknown. it’s extremely unfortunate we are in this position and it was entirely avoidable

My plan, until rabbit imploded, was going to be getting myself modkilled, while presenting the reality that you'd still have to yeet someone after I was gone, all to ease you into the idea that a No Lynch was a better idea than yeeting a 3p Friendly like me. That would have been a better solution than me dead, which helps nothing.

i won’t be voting any time soon

i’d like lc to check in and confirm i’m not w/w with him

then the only worlds will be
1) amy solo wolf, lc 3P
2) amy wolf, lc wolf
3) tutuu wolf, nanook wolf, lc 3P
4) tutuu wolf, lc wolf

lc checking in and no hammer should confirm a wolf within amy/tutuu, correct?

Just please don't hammer without me!

[Hally]

what

how would getting yourself modkilled help you

actually don’t answer that

we cannot discuss this

[Long Con]

what

how would getting yourself modkilled help you

actually don’t answer that

we cannot discuss this

If I were dead anyway by yeet, then dead is dead and there's no helping me. I would much rather take myself out of the equation by my own hand in order to shove your faces into your own cowardice, and make you choose a wolf to chop.

And anyway, it wasn't supposed to end with my modkill, it was supposed to end with you guys realizing that trying to chop me wouldn't help you, and putting back on the big boy pants and trying to yeet Mafia.

[Long Con]

Also I should add that I won't be removed from play if I am involved with a Mafia chop. I still have to survive, my vote would still be there if we get down to 1v1v1. I'm hoping it's just Amy. That's what I believe right now.

Can I vote her yet?

[Hally]

stop talking about modkilling yourself what are you doing

[Hally]

also you can vote whenever. you aren’t town so it’s irrelevant where you vote