Mafia Misplay Mafia

[MacDougall]

@Jackofhearts2005 where's your head at right now?

[☆Princess Abigail☆]

The... start of today was weird though and I dunno what to make of it

what part?

Repeatedly questioning if the NK had a role was weird cause like... the set up of this game.

I also don't like people basically giving up and saying they need to die or be lock town.

Might've been asking about Flavor actually...I don't remember can't check... but either is weird in this set up

[MacDougall]

@Lilypetal you said i've been doing bad pushes all game, which would you characterise as bad?

[MacDougall]

@NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME thoughts on esooa?

[MacDougall]

@risiinq- what's your current appraisal of the game?

[MacDougall]

The... start of today was weird though and I dunno what to make of it

what part?

Repeatedly questioning if the NK had a role was weird cause like... the set up of this game.

I also don't like people basically giving up and saying they need to die or be lock town.

Might've been asking about Flavor actually...I don't remember can't check... but either is weird in this set up

I think it's pretty obvious that wasn't the situation.

[MacDougall]

@Esooa you're lilypetal's mentor right?

[MacDougall]

kinda just feel like mac is a wolf bcuz he's off, i dont really have a super concrete reason and im voting there to just test the waters.

when i get in front of my desk again ill try to do some isos/notetaking, although i do have some work to do

At the time of this post i am pretty sure i was being hard pushed by like at minimum 3 other players. You and I both voted Ender over HK. Both had Visor as town. The best you can articulate on me is that I am "off" but we have had largely the same reads.

i have no current problem with visor tbh and i think choosing ender over hk is kinda logical anyways

I have seen nothing disagreeable from Visor and he's far and away my top town.

top town??

I don't understand this reaction contextually.

sabi
porscha
lily
outed wolf
achro
neon
mac
drwilgy
santy
hk
jack
esooa
ender
nook


hmmmmm

How did I get from above the null line to so off that you're voting me without making a single post?

You listed wilgy and I in your POE and left out Santy and HK? Why?

[MacDougall]

I feel like trusting with my life now in Ris, Porscha, nook and Lily. Prob in that order.

I thought that maybe ow kill was one to maintain status quo in thread, but just glossing at player list wilgs was there and feels like far more juicier then Outed Wolf there to kill so eeeeeh Im still lost on why ow could die.

I see the mac case and like yeah, could be. But also it isnt like, too much level 0 as a take? Mac isn the only scum so there should be two other people who would agree with that and why???

Explain the read on Risiinq please.

[risiinq-]

1. what does you being hard pushed by 3 other people have anything to do with what i was talking about which was mainly just where i was at in terms of my thoughts on ur slot?

2. if u want an explanation, my comment was mainly because i dont recall u ever mentioning visor as a townread before and so seeing u call him "far and away my top town" was surprising to me.

[risiinq-]

I feel like trusting with my life now in Ris, Porscha, nook and Lily. Prob in that order.

I thought that maybe ow kill was one to maintain status quo in thread, but just glossing at player list wilgs was there and feels like far more juicier then Outed Wolf there to kill so eeeeeh Im still lost on why ow could die.

I see the mac case and like yeah, could be. But also it isnt like, too much level 0 as a take? Mac isn the only scum so there should be two other people who would agree with that and why???

Explain the read on Risiinq please.

really? you're going to antagonize me after quoting 3 quotes that aren't bad for me at all?

[MacDougall]

well @hollowkatt time to prepare a legacy as you are super dead.

bucket o townies:

hk
porscha
risiinq
sabi
mac
wigly

schroedingers bucket:
achro
jackofhearts
lilypetal
neon
nanook
outed wolf

bucket o death:
santy
ender
esooa


I think all I need to do is find 2/3 more townies in the schroedingers bucket and mow through the bucket o death

updated:

town
HK
Porscha
Risiinq
Sabi
Mac
Wigly
Achro
Jack
Outed Wolf



kill
Santy
Esooa
Nanook
Ender
lilypetal
neon

are these groups in any particular order?

[MacDougall]

I feel like trusting with my life now in Ris, Porscha, nook and Lily. Prob in that order.

I thought that maybe ow kill was one to maintain status quo in thread, but just glossing at player list wilgs was there and feels like far more juicier then Outed Wolf there to kill so eeeeeh Im still lost on why ow could die.

I see the mac case and like yeah, could be. But also it isnt like, too much level 0 as a take? Mac isn the only scum so there should be two other people who would agree with that and why???

Explain the read on Risiinq please.

really? you're going to antagonize me after quoting 3 quotes that aren't bad for me at all?

Where am I antagonising you? I want to know why Santygrass townreads you so that I can figure out whether or not he and/or you are mafia. Do you have a problem with that?

[risiinq-]

3. you and mrwilgy have not presented me anything else that i deem randtown after like... 12 hours into the first day. you had micro moments that seemed towny but it was extremely surface level so i dont care that much. drwigly has just disappeared from existence. i believe yesterday's wagons were v/v from the defeatist attitudes of both hence HK is town. my reads can change yaknow. and santy i still think is towny cuz of *reads* and *beliefs* and some *aggression* but i'm not super confident on it so he's veering on the edge of poe.

[☆Princess Abigail☆]

Mac trending up. Fight me.

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

His rage fit was a distraction and should be ignored

I funny much ignore anything

It isn't ai, if anything it's somewhat scummy for him given how much importance he's placed on not doing that stuff, but I'd say it's just nai

[risiinq-]

I feel like trusting with my life now in Ris, Porscha, nook and Lily. Prob in that order.

I thought that maybe ow kill was one to maintain status quo in thread, but just glossing at player list wilgs was there and feels like far more juicier then Outed Wolf there to kill so eeeeeh Im still lost on why ow could die.

I see the mac case and like yeah, could be. But also it isnt like, too much level 0 as a take? Mac isn the only scum so there should be two other people who would agree with that and why???

Explain the read on Risiinq please.

really? you're going to antagonize me after quoting 3 quotes that aren't bad for me at all?

Where am I antagonising you? I want to know why Santygrass townreads you so that I can figure out whether or not he and/or you are mafia. Do you have a problem with that?

forgive me for the overreaction. i just felt like you weren't treating me as a "fellow townie" in any of the posts recently where you quoted one of my posts and probed me.

[risiinq-]

Mac trending up. Fight me.

neon towny for this. yeah

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

@NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME thoughts on esooa?

She seems broadly fine

Meh confidence

[☆Princess Abigail☆]

His rage fit was a distraction and should be ignored

I funny much ignore anything

It isn't ai, if anything it's somewhat scummy for him given how much importance he's placed on not doing that stuff, but I'd say it's just nai

Hardly locking HK town. But I'm going to keep reading the intent.

[MacDougall]

1. what does you being hard pushed by 3 other people have anything to do with what i was talking about which was mainly just where i was at in terms of my thoughts on ur slot?

2. if u want an explanation, my comment was mainly because i dont recall u ever mentioning visor as a townread before and so seeing u call him "far and away my top town" was surprising to me.

Well because you have taken someone who was at last check above your null line, and voted them while under pressure which from the perspective of the recipient makes me feel like you're mafia opportunistically voting for me. Especially because your POE suddenly excluded HK and Santy with no explanation, and Santy is townreading you with no explanation and is pushing onto Neon who Esooa has in a difference check with you. I am just wondering whether the mafia isn't just you, HK and Santygrass.

[MacDougall]

3. you and mrwilgy have not presented me anything else that i deem randtown after like... 12 hours into the first day. you had micro moments that seemed towny but it was extremely surface level so i dont care that much. drwigly has just disappeared from existence. i believe yesterday's wagons were v/v from the defeatist attitudes of both hence HK is town. my reads can change yaknow. and santy i still think is towny cuz of *reads* and *beliefs* and some *aggression* but i'm not super confident on it so he's veering on the edge of poe.

HK and Ender's reactions couldn't have been more different and you had HK towards the bottom of your scumlist and now you do not. If HK is mafia you are always his partner. Let's file that one away.

[MacDougall]

I feel like trusting with my life now in Ris, Porscha, nook and Lily. Prob in that order.

I thought that maybe ow kill was one to maintain status quo in thread, but just glossing at player list wilgs was there and feels like far more juicier then Outed Wolf there to kill so eeeeeh Im still lost on why ow could die.

I see the mac case and like yeah, could be. But also it isnt like, too much level 0 as a take? Mac isn the only scum so there should be two other people who would agree with that and why???

Explain the read on Risiinq please.

really? you're going to antagonize me after quoting 3 quotes that aren't bad for me at all?

Where am I antagonising you? I want to know why Santygrass townreads you so that I can figure out whether or not he and/or you are mafia. Do you have a problem with that?

forgive me for the overreaction. i just felt like you weren't treating me as a "fellow townie" in any of the posts recently where you quoted one of my posts and probed me.

Well I am currently of the mindset that you're likely not town so that would be a correct feeling to have. That doesn't have to upset you. It's a mafia game, it happens all the time.

[risiinq-]

3. you and mrwilgy have not presented me anything else that i deem randtown after like... 12 hours into the first day. you had micro moments that seemed towny but it was extremely surface level so i dont care that much. drwigly has just disappeared from existence. i believe yesterday's wagons were v/v from the defeatist attitudes of both hence HK is town. my reads can change yaknow. and santy i still think is towny cuz of *reads* and *beliefs* and some *aggression* but i'm not super confident on it so he's veering on the edge of poe.

HK and Ender's reactions couldn't have been more different and you had HK towards the bottom of your scumlist and now you do not. If HK is mafia you are always his partner. Let's file that one away.

i am willing to acknowledge this as it is logical but do not preflip me.

[MacDougall]

Mac trending up. Fight me.

neon towny for this. yeah

Neon is town for shielding the person you're voting for?

[risiinq-]

Mac trending up. Fight me.

neon towny for this. yeah

Neon is town for shielding the person you're voting for?

somebody does not necessarily have to be correct for them to be town

somebody does not necessarily have to play prowolf (ie shielding partners) to be wolf

i townread neon because of saying "fight me." and because of the particular moment they said it in, in which most of the thread direction has been towards you being wolf.

i townread neon because i believe that they saw ur string of posting and thought it was towny, as i can see a townie thinking that regardless of my own personal read on it

[MacDougall]

3. you and mrwilgy have not presented me anything else that i deem randtown after like... 12 hours into the first day. you had micro moments that seemed towny but it was extremely surface level so i dont care that much. drwigly has just disappeared from existence. i believe yesterday's wagons were v/v from the defeatist attitudes of both hence HK is town. my reads can change yaknow. and santy i still think is towny cuz of *reads* and *beliefs* and some *aggression* but i'm not super confident on it so he's veering on the edge of poe.

HK and Ender's reactions couldn't have been more different and you had HK towards the bottom of your scumlist and now you do not. If HK is mafia you are always his partner. Let's file that one away.

i am willing to acknowledge this as it is logical but do not preflip me.

The chance that I will be alive after you is very low I am just making note of it for others.

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

His rage fit was a distraction and should be ignored

I funny much ignore anything

It isn't ai, if anything it's somewhat scummy for him given how much importance he's placed on not doing that stuff, but I'd say it's just nai

Hardly locking HK town. But I'm going to keep reading the intent.

Alright, if we're going to read intent

Sorry in advance hk, this may be a bit harsh


HK has caught bans/suspensions for toxicity, as recently as a year or so ago iirc (possibly a year and a half, idr), and has worked hard to reduce that part of his game. He's done a legitimately great job of it. The fact that it came back out at eod1 isn't town indicative, if anything him not backing off it at all and in fact doubling down and telling someone to choke on a brick or whatever is scummy, he had the chances to take a step back and refused them, usually if he's town when its pointed out he'll take a breath and reset, but there's upside/an advantage to not doing so as mafia. Its basically a pure "I can't defend myself from these SRs so I'm going to make voting for me emotionally unpleasant." Its shitty behavior that townHK has worked hard to excise from his play, but it's strictly beneficial for scumHK.

It could be a town reaction, of course, we all have lapses, on balance i expect it to come from scumHK more than townHK at this point

[MacDougall]

Mac trending up. Fight me.

neon towny for this. yeah

Neon is town for shielding the person you're voting for?

somebody does not necessarily have to be correct for them to be town

somebody does not necessarily have to play prowolf (ie shielding partners) to be wolf

i townread neon because of saying "fight me." and because of the particular moment they said it in, in which most of the thread direction has been towards you being wolf.

i townread neon because i believe that they saw ur string of posting and thought it was towny, as i can see a townie thinking that regardless of my own personal read on it

I think it's more likely you just townread neon because I'm pushing you and Neon is townreading me and you think appeasing her with a townread is a good way to prevent her from seeing what I'm seeing.

[risiinq-]

i do not feel like killing HK today and i hope that this is not a bad idea. the visor kill makes me feel better about this.

drwigly has personally fallen off for me, as has nook

achro has gotten a lot better for me and this isn't a read that is going up and down, im kinda down for locking it in for now

lily santy and neon are all slots ive felt good about from time to time but these i need to reevaluate

my immediate PoE is {drwigly, nook, mac, esooa, jack} though.

this should explain my poe btw

[MacDougall]

His rage fit was a distraction and should be ignored

I funny much ignore anything

It isn't ai, if anything it's somewhat scummy for him given how much importance he's placed on not doing that stuff, but I'd say it's just nai

Hardly locking HK town. But I'm going to keep reading the intent.

Alright, if we're going to read intent

Sorry in advance hk, this may be a bit harsh


HK has caught bans/suspensions for toxicity, as recently as a year or so ago iirc (possibly a year and a half, idr), and has worked hard to reduce that part of his game. He's done a legitimately great job of it. The fact that it came back out at eod1 isn't town indicative, if anything him not backing off it at all and in fact doubling down and telling someone to choke on a brick or whatever is scummy, he had the chances to take a step back and refused them, usually if he's town when its pointed out he'll take a breath and reset, but there's upside/an advantage to not doing so as mafia. Its basically a pure "I can't defend myself from these SRs so I'm going to make voting for me emotionally unpleasant." Its shitty behavior that townHK has worked hard to excise from his play, but it's strictly beneficial for scumHK.

It could be a town reaction, of course, we all have lapses, on balance i expect it to come from scumHK more than townHK at this point

Do you think the same thing applies to sabi telling me she hates me?

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

His rage fit was a distraction and should be ignored

I funny much ignore anything

It isn't ai, if anything it's somewhat scummy for him given how much importance he's placed on not doing that stuff, but I'd say it's just nai

Hardly locking HK town. But I'm going to keep reading the intent.

Alright, if we're going to read intent

Sorry in advance hk, this may be a bit harsh


HK has caught bans/suspensions for toxicity, as recently as a year or so ago iirc (possibly a year and a half, idr), and has worked hard to reduce that part of his game. He's done a legitimately great job of it. The fact that it came back out at eod1 isn't town indicative, if anything him not backing off it at all and in fact doubling down and telling someone to choke on a brick or whatever is scummy, he had the chances to take a step back and refused them, usually if he's town when its pointed out he'll take a breath and reset, but there's upside/an advantage to not doing so as mafia. Its basically a pure "I can't defend myself from these SRs so I'm going to make voting for me emotionally unpleasant." Its shitty behavior that townHK has worked hard to excise from his play, but it's strictly beneficial for scumHK.

It could be a town reaction, of course, we all have lapses, on balance i expect it to come from scumHK more than townHK at this point

Do you think the same thing applies to sabi telling me she hates me?

No not really, p sure sabi is just town, this would be a massive leap in their scum play so

If they made that leap good for them, im gonna bet they're just town tho

[risiinq-]

His rage fit was a distraction and should be ignored

I funny much ignore anything

It isn't ai, if anything it's somewhat scummy for him given how much importance he's placed on not doing that stuff, but I'd say it's just nai

Hardly locking HK town. But I'm going to keep reading the intent.

Alright, if we're going to read intent

Sorry in advance hk, this may be a bit harsh


HK has caught bans/suspensions for toxicity, as recently as a year or so ago iirc (possibly a year and a half, idr), and has worked hard to reduce that part of his game. He's done a legitimately great job of it. The fact that it came back out at eod1 isn't town indicative, if anything him not backing off it at all and in fact doubling down and telling someone to choke on a brick or whatever is scummy, he had the chances to take a step back and refused them, usually if he's town when its pointed out he'll take a breath and reset, but there's upside/an advantage to not doing so as mafia. Its basically a pure "I can't defend myself from these SRs so I'm going to make voting for me emotionally unpleasant." Its shitty behavior that townHK has worked hard to excise from his play, but it's strictly beneficial for scumHK.

It could be a town reaction, of course, we all have lapses, on balance i expect it to come from scumHK more than townHK at this point

Do you think the same thing applies to sabi telling me she hates me?

to be fair i think it applies to HK more and i like this nook post and its making me rethink a bit but eh

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

Sabi and hk are different people with different journies, different things are ai for each, etc. etc.

[MacDougall]

i do not feel like killing HK today and i hope that this is not a bad idea. the visor kill makes me feel better about this.

drwigly has personally fallen off for me, as has nook

achro has gotten a lot better for me and this isn't a read that is going up and down, im kinda down for locking it in for now

lily santy and neon are all slots ive felt good about from time to time but these i need to reevaluate

my immediate PoE is {drwigly, nook, mac, esooa, jack} though.

this should explain my poe btw

It really doesn't. You haven't mentioned esooa, jack or me in this commentary. Nor have you explained why any of the other players such as Santygrass are outside of it.

[risiinq-]

i do not feel like killing HK today and i hope that this is not a bad idea. the visor kill makes me feel better about this.

drwigly has personally fallen off for me, as has nook

achro has gotten a lot better for me and this isn't a read that is going up and down, im kinda down for locking it in for now

lily santy and neon are all slots ive felt good about from time to time but these i need to reevaluate

my immediate PoE is {drwigly, nook, mac, esooa, jack} though.

this should explain my poe btw

It really doesn't. You haven't mentioned esooa, jack or me in this commentary. Nor have you explained why any of the other players such as Santygrass are outside of it.

i dont really elaborate a lot lol, i find that when people ask me to explain most of my reads i either go try hard mode and do a gigantic note taking session or i be very vague because it's hard to explain

im just saying it's the progression and i did not mysteriously change my PoE, which, in fact, from the post u quoted, is kinda outdated

[MacDougall]

Sabi and hk are different people with different journies, different things are ai for each, etc. etc.

Obviously but do you think that sabi would be more likely to give into the temptation to use toxic ate as a wolf or town in light of the fact that sabi is also trying to work on controlling themselves in mafia games?

I would personally tend to think wolf, especially given sabi lost a game as a wolf last time they tried to control their ate. It would be difficult to justify doing so again.

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

That reminds me lol, I thought yhe "nook has fallen off" thing was kinda weird given i don't recall being that high to begin with for ris, and nothing had happened to push me down anyways afaict?

[risiinq-]

you were my first townread coming into the game tbh

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

Sabi and hk are different people with different journies, different things are ai for each, etc. etc.

Obviously but do you think that sabi would be more likely to give into the temptation to use toxic ate as a wolf or town in light of the fact that sabi is also trying to work on controlling themselves in mafia games?

I would personally tend to think wolf, especially given sabi lost a game as a wolf last time they tried to control their ate. It would be difficult to justify doing so again.

I agree that scumSabi probably lets the AtE loose, sure

Don't think townSabi stops it tho, particularly around you lol

Just don't see AtE as indicative of anything except them being sabi

[risiinq-]

so i will continuously recall back to my at-that-time only strong read and be like

"wow i dont think i can reach that level of confidence on nook any more"

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

you were my first townread coming into the game tbh

This was not the case by eod yeah? Iirc you were down on me prior to eod1

[risiinq-]

you were my first townread coming into the game tbh

This was not the case by eod yeah? Iirc you were down on me prior to eod1

mhm.

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

It doesn't matter it just seemed weird, not something talking about is going to clear up really

[MacDougall]

I think HK kinda has to be mafia based on how I'm reading people.

If Sabi is town the game is probably a lot easier so here's my hypothetical readslist in that context.

Town

Sabi
Porscha
Neon

Lean Town

Achro

Nanook
Jack
Santygrass

Lean Wolf

Esooa or Lily

Wolf

Risiinq
HK

I can't really see town winning this game if HK is town.

[risiinq-]

hmm. bordering on two seperate worldviews and i dont know which one is correct

[MacDougall]

If HK is mafia then I would think Risiinq and Lily are probably the wolves. If HK is town then Risiinq might be town.

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

Of course town can win if hk is town lol, its d2

[risiinq-]

nook/hk is never w/w, and quite possibly v/w

actually not sure about mac/hk and its confusing me a lot

and then the visor kill confuses me even more

wait one question

@mac what's ur read on santy???

[risiinq-]

im wondering if we should resolve hk after all but im going to be upset if they flip town anyways