In conclusion of my spam: I think most of the dynamics favor Dom being a baddie, but there is at least one I want to hear about:
Elohcin / Epignosis / Glorfindel / LoRab
Re: MAD MAX: Day 8
Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2016 1:52 am
by Sloonei
A big reservation that I have with the LoRab/Epi/zebra scum pairing is that there also town roles with BTSC. It's entirely possible we have an in tact pair still alive in this game, I think. If there is a connection sensed between them but they are otherwise clean, that could be it.
Re: MAD MAX: Day 8
Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2016 1:54 am
by Sloonei
Although it would presumably taken anyone a while to form a BTSC link, and they seem to have towning on each other from Day 1.
Re: MAD MAX: Day 8
Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2016 2:05 am
by Sloonei
Moved my vote back to Glorfindel. There's no reason not to lynch him today.
Re: MAD MAX: Day 8
Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2016 2:10 am
by Sloonei
JaggedJimmyJay wrote:In conclusion of my spam: I think most of the dynamics favor Dom being a baddie, but there is at least one I want to hear about:
Elohcin / Epignosis / Glorfindel / LoRab
How confident are you that Dom is bad?
Re: MAD MAX: Day 8
Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2016 2:20 am
by JaggedJimmyJay
Sloonei wrote:
JaggedJimmyJay wrote:In conclusion of my spam: I think most of the dynamics favor Dom being a baddie, but there is at least one I want to hear about:
Elohcin / Epignosis / Glorfindel / LoRab
How confident are you that Dom is bad?
60/40 or so.
My lead candidate for the last baddie is Epignosis regardless. I'm getting this vibe:
Epignosis wrote:I didn't even try to be a civilian in this one.
Re: MAD MAX: Day 8
Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2016 4:21 am
by Quin
I really hope that whatever Dom is currently dealing with works out, but the fact remains that if he's not here to have a real conversation with me there's no way my scum read of him is going anywhere.
Hopefully LoRab has the opportunity to check in as well, I'd like to know her current thoughts, because she seems at least resistant to the idea of Glorfindel being bad. It's something to talk about. I'd especially like to know her thoughts about the 'cleared' townies, 3J and INH.
Re: MAD MAX: Day 8
Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2016 4:24 am
by Quin
I also probably won't be around until the very end of EoD once I go to bed tonight. I have MY LAST EXAM FOR MY UNI DEGREE at 8:30 which runs through until 10:30 (30 minutes before EoD), so I'll be actively avoiding this that morning for some last minute cramming.
Re: MAD MAX: Day 8
Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2016 11:11 am
by JaggedJimmyJay
Sloonei wrote:Moved my vote back to Glorfindel. There's no reason not to lynch him today.
If he's Cundalini, this isn't LyLo. G-Man's post affirms that the game isn't over if the baddies don't have the ability to at least tie the tally, and they don't in 3v3. This also applies if INH is Cundalini. I think this means we literally shouldn't lynch Glorfindel.
Re: MAD MAX: Day 8
Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2016 11:15 am
by JaggedJimmyJay
Wait a minute. Wrong. Silvertongue can't vote either.
Lynch Glorfindel.
Re: MAD MAX: Day 8
Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2016 11:16 am
by JaggedJimmyJay
The lynch Epignosis for originally suggesting this.
Re: MAD MAX: Day 8
Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2016 11:20 am
by JaggedJimmyJay
Ugh wait. It's 5 vs. 3, potentially with both sides having a voteless player. That means the voting power would be 4 vs. 2.
1. Lynch Cundalini, and it stays 4 vs. 2, and then potentially goes to 3 vs. 2 after the night kill.
2. Lynch a non-Cundalini baddie, and it goes to 4 vs. 1, and then potentially 3 vs. 1 after the night kill.
3. Lynch a non-Silvertongue townie, and it goes to 3 vs. 2, and then potentially 2 vs. 2 after the night kill (town loss).
The other variable in play is a protector if they're still alive.
#1 is the safest. #2 is the biggest gain. #3 is the biggest mistake. I think we're better off with #1. We can still trust our ability to make reads beyond that point.
Re: MAD MAX: Day 8
Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2016 1:11 pm
by Sloonei
Everything is coming back to Dom for me. It's hard to wrap my head around 2 of the remaining 3 suspects that aren't him being bad, but it's not impossible and I keep worrying that Dom is just the lowest hanging fruit on the tree. I am leaning toward Epi as the final baddie if Dom is also bad. Zebra looked good but she has thoroughly fooled me before, and Epi has been less good since subbing in. I can also see the potential pairing with LoRab if Dom is actually good, but we might be able to reach that point if we mislynch along the way.
What does everyone think we should do on Day 9?
Re: MAD MAX: Day 8
Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2016 1:30 pm
by JaggedJimmyJay
A mislynch loses the game every time except when a hypothetical protector stops a kill. We don't even know if there still is a protector.
Re: MAD MAX: Day 8
Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2016 2:51 pm
by JaggedJimmyJay
I think it's also important that Zebra looked good despite being wrong about nearly everything. That can happen to townies, but the potential for "WIFOM served in gallons" should not be ignored.
Re: MAD MAX: Day 8
Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2016 2:52 pm
by JaggedJimmyJay
Given that a mislynch can easily lose the game, I think it would be very dangerous to lynch Dom today.
Re: MAD MAX: Day 8
Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2016 2:53 pm
by JaggedJimmyJay
Keep in mind that a night kill is likely to follow the Glorfindel lynch which will narrow the suspect pool further. Let the baddies do our work.
Re: MAD MAX: Day 8
Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2016 4:00 pm
by Sloonei
I won't be here at all until the deadline. My vote's staying on Glorfindel and lynching him is the safest option. I encourage others to pile on.
Re: MAD MAX: Day 8
Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2016 5:00 pm
by Dom
Given we're likely in LyLo-- Epig wants to lynch someone other than Glorfindel because it would end the game.
Re: MAD MAX: Day 8
Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2016 6:07 pm
by motel room
do it for her motel room
Re: MAD MAX: Day 8
Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2016 6:16 pm
by JaggedJimmyJay
You can tell by all the noise that the deadline is approaching.
Re: MAD MAX: Day 8
Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2016 7:12 pm
by Epignosis
JaggedJimmyJay wrote:The lynch Epignosis for originally suggesting this.
Knock yourself out chief. There's nothing wrong with offering an alternative use of Day 8. I don't have any problem with Glorfindel being lynched because he has to be eventually, but voting Glorfindel if he's Cundalini is effectively voting for a no lynch. He serves no function at this stage. No power and no vote. I would rather remove someone who has a vote or, ideally, someone who has a vote and has the block. Lynching Glorfindel brings things back around to what it is today- get the lynch right or lose. If Dom is bad and I am right, then the outlook significantly improves. If I'm wrong, well shit good game I blew it isn't the first time won't be the last. But I don't think I am.
Dom wrote:Given we're likely in LyLo-- Epig wants to lynch someone other than Glorfindel because it would end the game.
This statement is patently false. If one of Glorfindel's teammates is lynched, then things are significantly better for civilians going into Day 9. If Glorfindel is lynched, then Day 9 is a repeat of Day 8.
And I don't believe lynching you will end anything but your role's existence.
Re: MAD MAX: Day 8
Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2016 7:18 pm
by JaggedJimmyJay
Epignosis wrote:
JaggedJimmyJay wrote:The lynch Epignosis for originally suggesting this.
Knock yourself out chief. There's nothing wrong with offering an alternative use of Day 8. I don't have any problem with Glorfindel being lynched because he has to be eventually, but voting Glorfindel if he's Cundalini is effectively voting for a no lynch. He serves no function at this stage. No power and no vote. I would rather remove someone who has a vote or, ideally, someone who has a vote and has the block. Lynching Glorfindel brings things back around to what it is today- get the lynch right or lose. If Dom is bad and I am right, then the outlook significantly improves. If I'm wrong, well shit good game I blew it isn't the first time won't be the last. But I don't think I am.
Dom wrote:Given we're likely in LyLo-- Epig wants to lynch someone other than Glorfindel because it would end the game.
This statement is patently false. If one of Glorfindel's teammates is lynched, then things are significantly better for civilians going into Day 9. If Glorfindel is lynched, then Day 9 is a repeat of Day 8.
And I don't believe lynching you will end anything but your role's existence.
Now incorporate the existence of Silvertongue into this logic and make the post again.
Re: MAD MAX: Day 8
Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2016 7:26 pm
by Epignosis
JaggedJimmyJay wrote:
Epignosis wrote:
JaggedJimmyJay wrote:The lynch Epignosis for originally suggesting this.
Knock yourself out chief. There's nothing wrong with offering an alternative use of Day 8. I don't have any problem with Glorfindel being lynched because he has to be eventually, but voting Glorfindel if he's Cundalini is effectively voting for a no lynch. He serves no function at this stage. No power and no vote. I would rather remove someone who has a vote or, ideally, someone who has a vote and has the block. Lynching Glorfindel brings things back around to what it is today- get the lynch right or lose. If Dom is bad and I am right, then the outlook significantly improves. If I'm wrong, well shit good game I blew it isn't the first time won't be the last. But I don't think I am.
Dom wrote:Given we're likely in LyLo-- Epig wants to lynch someone other than Glorfindel because it would end the game.
This statement is patently false. If one of Glorfindel's teammates is lynched, then things are significantly better for civilians going into Day 9. If Glorfindel is lynched, then Day 9 is a repeat of Day 8.
And I don't believe lynching you will end anything but your role's existence.
Now incorporate the existence of Silvertongue into this logic and make the post again.
I don't follow.
Re: MAD MAX: Day 8
Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2016 7:27 pm
by JaggedJimmyJay
Lynching Glorfindel now, if he's bad (still not 100% on that, but I have no better ideas), guarantees we survive one more cycle. That enables another phase of night actions to occur. That might just mean someone gets killed -- and when the baddies are willing to kill Scotty, that can genuinely be helpful for process of elimination. It might mean someone gets protected and then confirmed like I was. Worst case scenario the game continues on, and we can still try to lynch the remaining two baddies after Glorfindel. Best case scenario we gain more critical information to help figure it out and possibly even prolong the game.
I agree that lynching a team mate of Cundalini now would be better than lynching the role itself. I'm sure as hell not confident enough in any reads to take that risk now though. It doesn't seem necessary to me -- indeed it seems like betting the game on a hunch just to get it over with sooner.
linki: Never mind. You kind of did when you acknowledged that lynching a good Dom would mean game over.
Re: MAD MAX: Day 8
Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2016 7:49 pm
by insertnamehere
I'd like to suggest that voters make the responsible, safe, and deeply establishment choice instead of risking it all on an utterly unproven candidate who has little to no appropriate attributes for the office, I mean for the scum team, just to "shake things up."
Didn't he say in an earlier game that he hates being a baddie?
Re: MAD MAX: Day 8
Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2016 9:12 pm
by G-Man
Ninja'd by the Daylight Savings Switch. Fancy that. Lynch post in 50 minutes or so.
Re: MAD MAX: Day 8
Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2016 10:03 pm
by G-Man
YOUR PRETTY FACE IS GOING TO HELL
After Scotty 2.0's remains were removed from little Timmy's doorstep and the dust storm gone, the townsfolk got right back to work. There was some discussion about other options and strategy but that didn't last long. No one felt inspired to take their eyes off the prize. Glorfindel wasn't accustomed to being viewed as a prize of the masses, so the repeat attention was new for him.
They came for him quickly and he put up the scantest of fights when taken into custody. He was marched into the Halls of Justice for another trial (or kangaroo court, depending on your perspective). Evidence was laid out before the jury, with particular emphasis on his survival the previous day. Only a few people seemed capable of such a survival and the prosecution did not believe Glorfindel to be Jim Goose. They were so confident that they called the accused to take the stand.
When asked to raise his right hand, however, the court descended into chaos. For Glorfindel did not come out of the previous lynch entirely unscathed as was previously thought. He raised his right arm but his hand was missing. All pleasantries flew right out the window. Jim Goose would not lose a hand, so it was clear that Glorfindel was up to no good. The judge ordered the guards to seize this obvious criminal.
Glorfindel didn't have time to repent for his sins. He didn't have time to explain how a broken home led to his turning to a life of crime, violence, and borderline insanity riding around the desert with the likes of Toecutter. No, the MFP rookies gave him no time to speak on his own behalf. After even the slightest struggle with the guards, one of the rookies pistol-whipped him just as happened with Commissioner Labatouche. With a similar crunch, Glorfindel's life was extinguished.
-----------------------------------------
GLORFINDEL has been lynched. He was CUNDALINI.
It is now Night 8. You have until 8:00 pm US Eastern time to send me your role PMs.
Re: MAD MAX: Night 8
Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2016 10:08 pm
by Dom
nice
Re: MAD MAX: Night 8
Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2016 10:10 pm
by JaggedJimmyJay
Alright. We live to fight another day. INH is 97% confirmed town.
Re: MAD MAX: Day 8
Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2016 10:12 pm
by Glorfindel
insertnamehere wrote:Stealth self-vote from Glorf.
Didn't he say in an earlier game that he hates being a baddie?
Indeed I did, my friend and I do. I'm genuinely sorry to everyone who believed in me but whom I let down. Thanks for the game Guys
Re: MAD MAX: Night 8
Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2016 10:13 pm
by JaggedJimmyJay
Good game, Matty. You played well.
Re: MAD MAX: Night 8
Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2016 10:16 pm
by Glorfindel
JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Good game, Matty. You played well.
That means a lot coming from you, Jay. Thank you
Re: MAD MAX: Night 8
Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2016 10:22 pm
by JaggedJimmyJay
Lynch two more and it's a town win. I know that's a difficult task, but it's attainable. We have two confirmed townies already you can cross off the list, and a wealth of thread evidence to sort out everyone else. I hope we can cooperatively find the motivation to give it our best shot as a town team.
Sloonei, for example... I think everyone around here recognizes your capabilities as a player, but your banner block remains barren. This is your opportunity to finally change that. Show me your fire.
Re: MAD MAX: Night 8
Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2016 10:26 pm
by JaggedJimmyJay
Dom is the easy choice. That doesn't mean he's the wrong choice, but it'd be nice if we could work together to fully assess everyone else instead of just defaulting to that lynch. I know least three of you non-INH people are townies. Let's go. *shakes pom poms*
Re: MAD MAX: Night 8
Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2016 10:53 pm
by JaggedJimmyJay
I never looked at Glorfindel's interactions with Sloonei, so...
I'm afraid that keeping in contact with this game has been more challenging than I'd imagined it would Still, I think things will settle down now for a while so let me try to find my feet back here again.
On an unrelated note: G, do your write-ups have to be so... graphic? Frankly, I found that last one a trifle disturbing...
I hope you are able to join us soon. Til then, do not sweat it.
Thank you, my friend I'm hoping I'll have a bit more time now and I'll do my best.
Sloonei wrote:Are you caught up enough to offer any reads, Glorf?
Funny you should ask, my friend - I was just ISOing you . I seem to recall reading a number of suspicions levelled at you so I thought you might be a good place to start.
Back in Ro3K, I remember when you replaced in, I got a pretty strong Town read on you then on the basis of your (initial) posts but as the game went on, it seemed to me that you became less involved and I grew somewhat less convinced of your Town alignment but my intuition proved accurate. Comparing your performance to this game, you seem consistently involved at a level to dispel any concerns in that regard. You questioned Mac's alignment (legitimately in my opinion) and I assume that is where some of the subsequent accusations against you have started.
I liked the fact that you resisted the Scotty push Day 1 and you seemed consistent in your accusations against Elohcin (although I confess your basis for those accusations - her interactions with Neil - seems a little thin to me...). Day 2 you raised concerns about INH's MP eulogy. I don't know if you're onto something here or not - I'll look at INH in greater depth later).
I do like your non-acceptance of the case against Ricochet and am concerned at the heat you received from DrWilgy as a consequence. You expressed concerns about MP and seemed to refocus on Eloh. This is probably the one post of yours that concerns me most:
Sloonei wrote:I still can't tell if Mac is being antagonistic because he's Mac or because he's scum. I laughed at more of his posts than anyone else's, so I'm giving him a town read on that alone.
Everything else aside, I think this is a terrible reason upon which to base a judgement of anyone's innocence.
And back to Elohcin...
From my perspective after having considered your posts and behaviour, I'd be satisfied to place you in my 'Town pile' for the time being. I sense a genuineness in your comments, arguments and conclusions (not saying that I agree with them at all) that gives me some comfort about you in this game.
Sloonei prompted Glorfindel for reads, and Glorf took the opportunity to provide a pretty substantive town read on Sloonei himself. This could be a laborious effort to support a team mate or a more blatant attempt to pocket -- hard to tell.
Glorfindel wrote:Apologies for being late to this party, my friends. FWIW, I can see the logic behind your case here Sloonei and whilst I've not considered LoRab seriously as a baddie before, I think your case here holds more water than that against Elohcin. I find the collapse in the wagon on Sprityo to be intriguing - as ambivalent as I feel towards him, I'd not have touched that wagon with a 10 foot barge pole...
Glorfindel was glad to follow Sloonei's lead on the LoRab counterwagon against his team mate Elohcin. I do think there's room to suspect that Sloonei was the deliberate driver of keeping Elohcin alive, serving as the sort of public baddie strategic leader. That might be a bit tinfoil.
Glorfindel wrote:I have some recollection of someone expressing concern at my vote at the end od Day 3 so I'm happy to address that matter here. By the time I got on here, EoD was imminent and after skimming the recent posts at that time, the leading wagons were Elohcin and LoRab with a minor wagon on Sprityo. I wanted my vote to count for something and felt compelled to make a judgement between Elohcin and LoRab. Whilst the result turned out well for us, I never really could see the validity of the argument against Elohcin (I thought the assertion that she NK'd Epi on the basis of their personal relationship - two mature, intelligent long term members of this site unable to separate their Mafia gaming activities - to be frankly bordering on the absurd) and I was enamoured by Sloonei's case against LoRab and placed my vote accordingly. Without having checked back, I'm certain that I said as much at the time I voted.
Clearly, I was wrong about Elohcin and in retrospect (after reading LoRab's comprehensive defence) am beginning to feel I may have been wrong about her too. I am still however, firmly convinced that Sloonei is Town and that he may have just mistaken on that occasion - it happens to the best of us.
I'm off to dinner, be back shortly.
He gives Sloonei all the credit for his LoRab vote and reiterates his strong town read despite the result of the lynch -- he actually used the word "mistaken" here to refer to Sloonei's read of LoRab, which I think strongly implies LoRab is town. That's one of the most conclusive things I've found in the game actually.
Glorfindel wrote:Secondly, you are correct (of course) one quote where you post that you like 3J's roleplay does not a buddy make. The problem is, that wasn't the only post that you made of that kind: here. Secondly, in terms of the vote on Elohcin, (as I think someone else has already pointed out) you remove yourself from the equation but seem distressed that others are holding you to the very same assumption to which you chose to level at me. You state that you are satisfied that Sloonei and Wilgy are OK (I don't personally see Sloonei's alignment as having seriously been in question all game and I'd be very interested if you could elaborate on why you've dismissed Dr Wilgey) but given the circumstance in which you found yourself after the Night 3 GTH reads, you're happy to point the finger of suspicion at (and I quote) "good ol' Glorf".
Glorfindel's defenses and support of Sloonei are strong and blatant. I find myself wondering if he'd be more careful when dealing with a team mate.
Sloonei wrote:Hi Glorf, Hi Mac. Wanna help us break this tie?
Hey, Sloonei What the hell have I walked into? I was leaning towards INH yesterday and was hoping that he'd return today to answer the comments I put to him last night. I don't know what the fact that he hasn't returned says...
I'm not 100% sold on him and to be honest, I am genuinely concerned for his state of mind after yesterday's events
Glorfindel wrote:
Sloonei wrote:Here's what I remember:
Wilgy dropped a vote on INH, making it 4 to 3.
Wilgy then moved his vote to indiglo. It was 4 to 4, with Glorfindel as the 4th INH voter.
Wilgy moved his vote back to INH.
Result pending.
When I voted, it was 4 all between Indiglo and INH.
I voted INH making it 5 to 4 in INH's favour
I refreshed and the vote had changed to 5 all (hence my response to Mac's post).
I refreshed again and it was 5 to 3 in INH's favour.
I'm seriously starting to see the advantages of non-changeable votes...
Glorfindel's tiebreaker controversy on Day 4 was originally brought out by Sloonei. He wasn't really accusatory about it though.
Quin wrote:I notice that the conclusion you've drawn from this ISO is almost entirely specific to INH and a now-dead guy. It's also about your own opinion of INH as opposed to an evaluation of your read on motel room based on his INH related content. I think you wanted to make a point about INH but wanted to feign some sort of context behind it. I am concerned.
Again, my apologies if my post appeared that way, my friend. This is only my second attempt at this level of analysis (you may recall my first was last game in Romance of the Three Kingdoms after which I was promptly NK'd by MacDougall) and I guess I still have some work to do in honing that skill. To clarify, I found motel room's tone to be genuine throughout. I think the conclusions he draws are often logical and he has shown a capacity to be open to being proven wrong such as was his experience with LoRab. I think that also (to an extent) gives credence to his reasons for his multiple vote change at EoD on Day 2 that seemed to draw a number of suspicions from other players.
Further, my approach to this analysis was (I'd like to think) fairly organic. I selected Sloonei and motel room because they were on when I commenced that post. I had an open mind on MR when I started writing it and I'll admit, the deeper the theme of INH went, I suppose it hooked into my feelings and thoughts on that topic as well. I do still harbour suspicions of INH but I agree with you, that content wasn't particularly relèvent to the point I was trying to make in respect of MR and I should've probably omitted it.
I think this claim can be believed even though Glorfindel was bad, and it doesn't say anything to me about Sloonei.
Sloonei wrote:voting glorfindel to start the day. What's up with this post?
Glorfindel wrote:
Sloonei wrote:
Epignosis wrote:
Sloonei wrote:Is Wilgy still a near-consensus suspect as well? Because that approach worked out so well today.
What's the approach and why do you have a problem with it?
The approach of picking off the player who is most widely suspected. I am cautious because we just used it to lynch a townie.
And yet, as gut-wrenchingly disappointing as it is, you want to turn around and do it again...
I don't know what's up with my post (that you quoted above), my friend. Would you care to elaborate on what it is precisely that concerns you about it so I my put your concerns to rest?
I'll confess, I was convinced Mac was bad and that assumption supported my (now clearly) errant theory about Indiglo's guilt. With that assumption now blown out of the water and the comments posted so far this Day phase, I am left to seriously question my earlier reads on some of the remaining players in this game.
Glorfindel's despair in the face of Sloonei's Day 5 suspicion looks similar to his treatment of me, so that might be a decent look for Sloonei. Sloonei was somewhat forgiving later in the dialogue, but I do like the questions he was asking.
I'll say that Glorfindel was consistently interested in offering Sloonei very thick responses to prompts that he didn't always give to other players making similar requests.
My friend, I've believed in you all game and I still feel that you are our best hope here. I reviewed Sprityo/Scotty 2.0 in depth in an attempt to give you the most objective and informed response I could. I think the verdict is quite clear, and I assume I was sufficiently clear in the conclusion that I posted. In return, I've seen little more than the most thinly veiled OMGUS as his response. To my knowledge, he's been unable to put forward anything that looks remotely like a case against me other than declaring me 'Bad' in his GTH reads. I just read that he has resorted to inferring that my posts are 'verbose'. REALLY? If by that he means that I am committed to posting constructively so this will turn out right, then damn straight I'll put my hand up for that.
Glorfindel crammed this in here for some reason. It isn't relevant. Sloonei didn't like the post and Glorfindel tried to assuage his concerns. Again.
Glorfindel wrote:My comments about your sniping at Sloonei relate specifically to what I saw in (Ref: 5.6) where you declare that if Indiglo is good, then that's a far better look for Sloonei. Indiglo WAS good and yet your re-evaluation of Sloonei is that "I'm not sure this makes Sloonei look better...". I interpreted your continued reluctance to accept a player I believed to be good as noteworthy. As to why I thought so highly of Sloonei amongst my reads, I think I've said the same thing almost since we began this game and did so again today. May I ask you (in just a couple of sentences) why you think I'm wrong about our friend Sloonei. What is it about him that you find so suspicious?
Lastly, I accept your concerns about 'subbing in' - I've never done that and I don't really have an appreciation of what it's like. I'd imagine though that it's a tough ask. That being said, can you explain to me where my being thorough (or verbose as you put it) suggests to you that I'm bad
Glorfindel was either trying his hardest to pocket Sloonei, or he was playing into the town credit of his team's leader.
Glorfindel wrote:And Sloonei, I've been with you all game and I respect your decision in this whatever you choose to do. The fact however that you've consistently ignored the case I put against Scotty whilst supporting his push against me based on (frankly) nothing is something that I doubt I'll ever comprehend. You asked me yesterday (eventually) to engage with him about his rebuttal of my ISO. I did that. He's not responded. If all this isn't setting off alarm bells for you, I think you're asleep at the wheel...
He's forgiving of Sloonei for suspecting him but suggests he's asleep at the wheel (ellipsis...).
Sloonei wrote:Did you expect to survive that lynch, Glorfindel?
The question that needs to be answered here, my friend is this:
You were intent on lynching me for practically all of the last Day phase. One of the reasons you used was my failure to respond to your (incredibly vague) request for me to address his response to my ISO analysis of him. Once you made your request explicit, I did as you asked. He never came back to do so before EoD and you seemed quite satisfied to let that slide by. Please explain to me why you seem to apply different standards to Scotty over me. Why does it seem that you accept vague, glib responses from him as bona fide accusations and yet I can put before you a (reasonably solid case) and you brush it aside. Now, again you appear to have automatically assumed my guilt. Enough with interrogating me, I think you need to ask yourself if you're even capable of being objective any longer.
Questioning Sloonei's objectivity is a lot closer to his treatment of me for my suspicion of him, so that's a nice thing.
~~~
I'll look at the interactions from Sloonei's side in a separate post. So many posts.
Re: MAD MAX: Night 8
Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2016 11:37 pm
by LoRab
Eek. Sorry I missed the lynch. Heading home in the morning, funeral stuff done now (and Bar Mitzvah stuff) and business travel over for a while, so should be back to normal. I'd have likely voted for Glorf in the end--reading through, the reasons were compelling.
I cannot wait to see how Elo managed to not know that one of her teammates hadn't been replaced, though. Because that gave me a whole lot of hesitation.
And even I have to admit that INH is almost certainly civ at this point.
Sloonei wrote:What are some of your standards for being "town-inclined"? The most notable thing I can take out of this is the "No" next to MP. With all the posts he's made, you couldn't find anything that inclined you toward a town read?
Glorfindel is tough to read at the moment because it's never easy to judge a player who has real life matters that greatly outweigh the importance of a game.
MacDougall wrote:I don't have a lot to go by in terms of Glorf meta but I saw him struggle immensely the one time he rolled mafia and every other time his cases have been clear and his posts have been purposeful.
I've never seen a scun glorf, but this is something I am interested in.
Sloonei wrote:Glrofindel and INH both are players who I can find reason to suspect in this game, but my experience with the two of them is a single town game each. I also still have to read Glorfindel through the lens of somebody who has priorities outside this game, so that is still complicating my reads.
Waffles. I don't necessarily think these look bad at face value, but they're worth keeping track of.
Sloonei wrote:I've been coming around to the idea of Mac being bad over the last 24 hours or so. sprityo and Glorfindel are also still off my radar and I wouldn't mind seeing more discussion around them. I feel better about LoRab than I did early on. Keep on figuring things out.
Sloonei probably could have given a better effort to get a read on Glorfindel early in the game.
MacDougall wrote:SVS was killed early in Romance after not doing a whole lot. I wonder if the same person or persons made the call. That would make MP the guy ironically lol.
Glorfindel's most recent post is bang on his scum meta.
I still wish I could get on board with this Glorfindel suspicion, but his real life situation is preventing me from jumping on it.
Sloonei wrote:Are you caught up enough to offer any reads, Glorf?
Sloonei wrote:I appreciate the read, Glorf. I also look forward to your read of INH, if you can get around to it. I am stuck on that case and could use some fresh perspectives on him.
JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Regarding Glorfindel, he and I had a brief exchange earlier in the day about Rico's role that I am still sorting out in my head. The conversation went nowhere in terms of specific reads being developed, but that doesn't mean he brought it up for no reason.
I need to look back at Rico's posts for any evidence of information he may have acquired on Day 1.
I thought it was strange that he seemed to address the point directly at you but then offered nothing more than "I think it might be useful to keep this in mind."
Actually that was pretty much the entire exchange. Okay I found the entire exchange strange.
Acknowledges something strange about Glorfindel's discussion of MFP roles potentially targeting Rico, but doesn't qualify further.
JaggedJimmyJay wrote:indiglo has always been one of the most reasonable townies to communicate with. She and I have made a great team more than once. I'm surprised to be met with this kind of commentary -- that there is no alternative to my content between "foolish waste of time" and "bad".
I agree somewhat with this and I think you've made some reasonable points against her/her spot in the game, but I can also sympathize with her here because there is no suspicion being drawn from her as an individual. She is not suspicous herself, but her roster spot is. It's a very difficult position to be in when you're tasked with defending yourself. I do not agree with her assessment of the case as "nonsense" or "foolish" though.
What do you think of that moment from Elohcin I talked about at the start of my Glorfindel check related to indiglo? How about as it pertains to Glorfindel?
I definitely agree that it makes Glorfindel look a bit better. It is difficult (but not impossible) to imagine a scenario where a scum player falsely believes one of their teammates to have been replaced. I'm not sure I see a clear line to indiglo/bwt in this speculation though. Is the theory just that, because Eloh was implicating Quin/sanmateo, she is therefore protecting indi/bwt?
I gave Glorfindel town credit for derp reasons and Sloonei agreed (so did LoRab).
Sloonei wrote:I don't think my Glorfindel sentence was articulated very well. That looks pretty ambiguous. What I mean is I don't remember a whole lot of case-making from Glorfindel in this game, I mostly just remember him answering questions directed at him. If he is town, I can credit this to the propensity for questions to be asked at him. And time constraints, of course.
For this, Sloonei was specifically prompted with explaining what makes Glorfindel town (INH and I were doing an exercise with him covering each player for the same prompt). I would note though that Sloonei's given reason is actually a good reason to read Glorfindel as bad.
Sloonei wrote:If we isolate today into a vacuum, Epi is the most suspicious player in this game. Glorfindel's and Scotty's absence is unfortunate but I can't hold either of those things against them. I think Dom looks frustrated and understandably flustered right now, but neither of those things give me a strong indication of any alignment.
Wilgy has actually looked pretty good today, IMO.
Sloonei is forgiving of Glorfindel's absence during the drama at EOD 6.
Sloonei wrote:Mostly gut rainbow on the current suspects with a severe recency bias: Dom Scotty Wilgy
Glorfindel Epi
I included Scotty because I wanted to.
Sloonei's read on Glorfindel was very fluid in that it moved up and down quite a bit. I don't think inconsistency is a bad thing. I might actually like it.
Sloonei wrote:Good. I am also feeling highly confident.
Sloonei joined me on Day 7 in my increasing confidence of a bad Glorfindel.
After this point, Sloonei stayed consistent in his suspicion of Glorfindel until the lynch was secured the second time.
~~~
Conclusion
Bleh. I feel like I did earlier in the game when I was trying to make a decision on MP. There's a good number of small pings here that Sloonei should talk about, but there are also good moments. This doesn't scream baddie team mates at me.
Re: MAD MAX: Night 8
Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2016 11:46 pm
by insertnamehere
LoRab wrote:And even I have to admit that INH is almost certainly civ at this point.
Re: MAD MAX: Night 8
Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2016 11:51 pm
by JaggedJimmyJay
Hey INH: you were on the money with your Glorfindel read earlier than the rest of us. Is there anyone you feel is particularly likely to be his team mate?
Glorfindel wrote:I have some recollection of someone expressing concern at my vote at the end od Day 3 so I'm happy to address that matter here. By the time I got on here, EoD was imminent and after skimming the recent posts at that time, the leading wagons were Elohcin and LoRab with a minor wagon on Sprityo. I wanted my vote to count for something and felt compelled to make a judgement between Elohcin and LoRab. Whilst the result turned out well for us, I never really could see the validity of the argument against Elohcin (I thought the assertion that she NK'd Epi on the basis of their personal relationship - two mature, intelligent long term members of this site unable to separate their Mafia gaming activities - to be frankly bordering on the absurd) and I was enamoured by Sloonei's case against LoRab and placed my vote accordingly. Without having checked back, I'm certain that I said as much at the time I voted.
Clearly, I was wrong about Elohcin and in retrospect (after reading LoRab's comprehensive defence) am beginning to feel I may have been wrong about her too. I am still however, firmly convinced that Sloonei is Town and that he may have just mistaken on that occasion - it happens to the best of us.
I'm off to dinner, be back shortly.
He gives Sloonei all the credit for his LoRab vote and reiterates his strong town read despite the result of the lynch -- he actually used the word "mistaken" here to refer to Sloonei's read of LoRab, which I think strongly implies LoRab is town. That's one of the most conclusive things I've found in the game actually.
to just remove LoRab from the suspect pool. If anyone disagrees, please shout it out. Otherwise I will proceed.
Two baddies and two townies in this pile:
Epignosis
Sloonei
Quin
Dom
Re: MAD MAX: Night 8
Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2016 12:04 am
by MacDougall
Re: MAD MAX: Night 8
Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2016 12:07 am
by Epignosis
JaggedJimmyJay wrote:I feel strongly enough about this:
Glorfindel wrote:I have some recollection of someone expressing concern at my vote at the end od Day 3 so I'm happy to address that matter here. By the time I got on here, EoD was imminent and after skimming the recent posts at that time, the leading wagons were Elohcin and LoRab with a minor wagon on Sprityo. I wanted my vote to count for something and felt compelled to make a judgement between Elohcin and LoRab. Whilst the result turned out well for us, I never really could see the validity of the argument against Elohcin (I thought the assertion that she NK'd Epi on the basis of their personal relationship - two mature, intelligent long term members of this site unable to separate their Mafia gaming activities - to be frankly bordering on the absurd) and I was enamoured by Sloonei's case against LoRab and placed my vote accordingly. Without having checked back, I'm certain that I said as much at the time I voted.
Clearly, I was wrong about Elohcin and in retrospect (after reading LoRab's comprehensive defence) am beginning to feel I may have been wrong about her too. I am still however, firmly convinced that Sloonei is Town and that he may have just mistaken on that occasion - it happens to the best of us.
I'm off to dinner, be back shortly.
He gives Sloonei all the credit for his LoRab vote and reiterates his strong town read despite the result of the lynch -- he actually used the word "mistaken" here to refer to Sloonei's read of LoRab, which I think strongly implies LoRab is town. That's one of the most conclusive things I've found in the game actually.
to just remove LoRab from the suspect pool. If anyone disagrees, please shout it out. Otherwise I will proceed.
Two baddies and two townies in this pile:
Epignosis
Sloonei
Quin
Dom
You could remove me from that pile, but I know you won't.
Do you know that I've never been universally cleared before? True story: I went ages without a civilian win. I won plenty as bad, but never as good. My first ever civilian win, I had people ready to lynch me...even though I had survived a mafia Night kill...three different times.
Not making that up.
Let me ask you something, 3J: What could I ever do to get you to 100% trust me?
Re: MAD MAX: Night 8
Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2016 12:09 am
by Quin
JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Things Quin has never done in his life:
1. Vote for Glorfindel
That's right.
Re: MAD MAX: Night 8
Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2016 12:11 am
by Dom
It's easy to assume I'm bad. It's hard to find teh actual baddie.
I've been hilariously wrong in this game. I am doing my best.
Ask yourself this: why would I keep killing my own top suspects?
Re: MAD MAX: Night 8
Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2016 12:13 am
by JaggedJimmyJay
Epignosis wrote:You could remove me from that pile, but I know you won't.
Do you know that I've never been universally cleared before? True story: I went ages without a civilian win. I won plenty as bad, but never as good. My first ever civilian win, I had people ready to lynch me...even though I had survived a mafia Night kill...three different times.
Not making that up.
To be fair, suspecting someone who has been targeted for three night kills is highly illogical and I'd at least like to think I wouldn't have suspected you in that game.
Epignosis wrote:Let me ask you something, 3J: What could I ever do to get you to 100% trust me?
I'm not sure there is anything you could do. Ask yourself the same question about me: if I hadn't survived a night kill, would you have a confident town read on me right now? You seem to suspect me in every game, and I probably suspect you in a lot of them too. Perhaps it's cautiousness more than reason, or maybe we both recognize that if we don't give each other shit then it's possible nobody else will.
I also play the game a bit differently from you. I am happy to shine my civilian light with blinding brightness, and you probably don't do that. That's your preference, and one of the consequences (apart from strengthening your baddie game significantly) is that it makes you harder to trust by nature.
If you are town, then two among Quin, Sloonei, and Dom are not. Please help me figure out which ones.
at 8:30 which runs through until 10:30 (30 minutes before EoD), so I'll be actively avoiding this that morning for some last minute cramming.
Still, I think things will settle down now for a while so let me try to find my feet back here again.
What the hell have I walked into? I was leaning towards INH yesterday and was hoping that he'd return today to answer the comments I put to him last night. I don't know what the fact that he hasn't returned says...