[END] Talking Heads Mafia (RYM #90)

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Devin asking for a replacement strikes me as odd. If he truly can't play at this point and he's lost interest and is a townie, wouldn't he be more inclined to just sign out and let nature take it's course? Asking for a replacement at this point seems like something somebody with a more minority role would do.

I dunno. In my experience, neener neener *self vote* is usually a town tell. I don't have a large sample of memories of this though since self-voting is usually illegal on RYM. Both of my champs tourny games had one of these incidents and ended in town lynches.

[Diiny]

Devin asking for a replacement strikes me as odd. If he truly can't play at this point and he's lost interest and is a townie, wouldn't he be more inclined to just sign out and let nature take it's course? Asking for a replacement at this point seems like something somebody with a more minority role would do.

I thought it was a joke because we're famously out of replacements and this has been said a bunch of times, hence the smilies.

If it is serious, which I'm now considering a possibility, it looks very much like a snide caveat to slide in to your post history as a catch-all sus-killer.

I was also expecting a serious response to my question about him not interacting with me at all. Dev, what up?

[Diiny]

Devin asking for a replacement strikes me as odd. If he truly can't play at this point and he's lost interest and is a townie, wouldn't he be more inclined to just sign out and let nature take it's course? Asking for a replacement at this point seems like something somebody with a more minority role would do.

I dunno. In my experience, neener neener *self vote* is usually a town tell. I don't have a large sample of memories of this though since self-voting is usually illegal on RYM. Both of my champs tourny games had one of these incidents and ended in town lynches.

Haterade.

Oh god, haterade.

I told them all, but they didn't listen.

[MacDougall]

Matt F you should be mod killed for sucking at Mafia. When I flip your penis will shrivel up inside you from embarrassment and it will never come out again.

This is a bit crude. Are you 3 years old? True story...I was working out yesterday and my three year old son came over to me and said, "Mommy look!" I looked over at him and he had pulled his pants down just enough to allow his junk to show. He cupped himself and wiggled a bit and said, "MY PENIS!" We are adults here, right?

Strawhenge... Please read the posts and tell MattF he's an idiot. Please. I am getting desperate here. If I get lynched when it's clear that his explanation is insane I will burn the internet to the ground.

This here sounds suspicious to me. A civilian would give more of a defense I would think. Mac, what kind of defense can you offer rather than just sitting there calling names and telling us how angry you are.

About your vote on Epi and your belief that he is the SK. I think you are wrong. Epi has always had that opinion of the SK whether he was scum, civ, etc. I don't think his opinion makes hiim the SK this game. Plus, pointing a finger at someone else is not really a defense as to why you are NOT the SK.

Posting this with 5 pages to go.

5.5 including link Shut up people!

Elohcin...

What would you expect me to do as defense if not what I did do? I pointed out the fallacies of his argument and I identified a more likely solution. The swears and stuff are irrelevant I did my absolute best to defend myself, and I did a fine job of it too.

And with your Epi meta rendering my case on him irrelevant, I've got no epi meta to go on so it'd be cool if you could help me find some examples?

That doesn't make the fact that FZ had Epi as top scumspect and then went die die, as well as Epi's abnormal play (according to other syndicators).

Who else do you find suspicious?

Here's proof of what Eloh is saying about me regarding serial killers:

Balance

The inclusion of a second Mafia team or an independent serial killer generally helps balance the game in favor of the Civilians.

I was more looking for in the wild examples of you being the overwhelming front runner of SK conversation and then you not being the serial killer.

Epi, I'm willing to be proven wrong about you. I'm not a one track minded tunneling fool. If you can show me some examples in other games that'd be great. Do you have any other games on the forum where you were a rogue?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

In case this is in contention I never expected anyone to follow my golden vote, it was very much drawing attention to the fact that I'm not voting for either of them and just needed to avoid being penalised.

I'm chuffed that you consider me a capable leader, but a good leader also knows when not to lead. And also knows that leading 8 mins before the deadline or whatever isn't exactly leading

What I'm trying to say is that I didn't have a problem with the responsibility of potentially securing either of lynches, it was that to do so wouldn't be reflective of any kind of informed decision, ya get me? I think I showed responsibility: I was concious to vote the towniest, least likely to get lycnhed, no votes guy (golden) instead of someone I actually had a previous scum read on so that I could be held accountable for my decision.

Also, from what you know of me, do you think it's indicative of Scum Diin to be timid, as you're accusing me of being?

link J- not even comedic timing?

Yellow: Fair question. I am not terribly interested in playing meta with you though, because I think you showed in #89 that you can conquer that problem. I think you're capable of playing either alignment within a variety of personalities.

What do you think of espers?

[MacDougall]

Devin asking for a replacement strikes me as odd. If he truly can't play at this point and he's lost interest and is a townie, wouldn't he be more inclined to just sign out and let nature take it's course? Asking for a replacement at this point seems like something somebody with a more minority role would do.

I dunno. In my experience, neener neener *self vote* is usually a town tell. I don't have a large sample of memories of this though since self-voting is usually illegal on RYM. Both of my champs tourny games had one of these incidents and ended in town lynches.

That's true, fucking around when the lynch is coming for you is a town tell. But actually trying to get replaced (ostensibly by someone who can offer more effort) seems like what someone who doesn't want to entirely alienate their team would do.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Devin asking for a replacement strikes me as odd. If he truly can't play at this point and he's lost interest and is a townie, wouldn't he be more inclined to just sign out and let nature take it's course? Asking for a replacement at this point seems like something somebody with a more minority role would do.

I dunno. In my experience, neener neener *self vote* is usually a town tell. I don't have a large sample of memories of this though since self-voting is usually illegal on RYM. Both of my champs tourny games had one of these incidents and ended in town lynches.

Haterade.

Oh god, haterade.

I told them all, but they didn't listen.

I do think there's a difference between "I'm scum" and "whatever, just lynch me *self vote*"

[Diiny]

I do think there's a difference between "I'm scum" and "whatever, just lynch me *self vote*"

Fair point.

Aether for the latter, though, when she was the werewolf that ruined your life

[MacDougall]

Devin asking for a replacement strikes me as odd. If he truly can't play at this point and he's lost interest and is a townie, wouldn't he be more inclined to just sign out and let nature take it's course? Asking for a replacement at this point seems like something somebody with a more minority role would do.

I dunno. In my experience, neener neener *self vote* is usually a town tell. I don't have a large sample of memories of this though since self-voting is usually illegal on RYM. Both of my champs tourny games had one of these incidents and ended in town lynches.

Haterade.

Oh god, haterade.

I told them all, but they didn't listen.

I do think there's a difference between "I'm scum" and "whatever, just lynch me *self vote*"

Is "I'm scum" a scum tell?

[Russtifinko]

J3 do you find town boring?

Splints the first engagement I had in thread was someone trying to insinuate that I was Mafia. I'm not going to pity you for biting off more than you can chew when you signed up to be a sub or for nobody answerinf a question you asked once. Don't just ask once then get annoyed, ask again, ask until everyone gets so sick of seeing the question that they answer it just to make you stop.

Epi did this earlier and it worked.

Before anyone else mentions it, yes, I've voted to lynch a civvie four days in a row now.

Sorry town

It's not so much that you've voted for 4 civvies in 4 days that bothers me, personally. I don't really love that everyone you've voted for is dead, but it is still only 2 people so it's not totally damning yet.

I think your Mac theory is completely cockamamie, and I HATE cockamamie theories, as Syndicate players know. However, I think a baddie you would be foolish to pursue it so forcefully and for so long (over 5 pages). I finished reading that exchange and found myself leaning more civ on you than before.

Also, for the record, I don't know Roxy the best, but all her posts have read absolutely classic Roxy to me. The devil-may-care, I-play-my-game-and-no-one-can-stop-me attitude, the tunneling on Matt F, and just general tone seem normal to me.

I suppose I get fingersplints defending her, but as far as I can recall, defending her is literally the only thing fingers has done all game. That looks increasingly shady to me as interesting things happen in thread.

this is as much investment you are going to get out of me. I joined into the game late and in an impossible to catch up spot but was positive. Very nice of me. Then I was largely ignored. No one welcomed me. No one even tried to give me a summary I asked for. No one answered my question if there was a silencer. sorry if you guys wanted more out of me should have interacted with me sooner.

If you read through my posts I defended her and then people questioned my defense of her. It's not me who only wants to bring up Rox but if you are all going to keep questioning it then I'm forced to respond to it
I deserve to die because I missed a vote

fingers, I'm sorry you didn't feel included. If I'd have been more active when you joined, I'd have welcomed you.

Not posting any reads besides "Roxy is good, everyone who accuses her is bad." creates a vicious cycle, though. People will suspect you for not giving reads, and apparently being asked to defend/explain yourself makes you less willing to contribute new content.

Play the game how you want so it's fun for you. I'm not saying you need to even read half of what's been posted. But it would be super duper cool if you could read even just a player or two and tell me and others what you think about them. It'll help us catch baddies, and probably be more fun than just defending yourself about your Roxy read for days on end.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Russ, if the phase ended in 25 seconds and your vote was certain to secure the final kill, where would your vote go?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Is "I'm scum" a scum tell?

It is if you're MacDougall or Haterade.

[Diiny]

Let me do my research and I'll tell you re espers, J. I've abandoned rico until later because seven pages. seven. pages.

[Epignosis]

I was more looking for in the wild examples of you being the overwhelming front runner of SK conversation and then you not being the serial killer.

Epi, I'm willing to be proven wrong about you. I'm not a one track minded tunneling fool. If you can show me some examples in other games that'd be great. Do you have any other games on the forum where you were a rogue?

Oh. In that case, I've been an independent killer one time and got killed Night 2.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I was more looking for in the wild examples of you being the overwhelming front runner of SK conversation and then you not being the serial killer.

Epi, I'm willing to be proven wrong about you. I'm not a one track minded tunneling fool. If you can show me some examples in other games that'd be great. Do you have any other games on the forum where you were a rogue?

Oh. In that case, I've been an independent killer one time and got killed Night 2.

Zero search results for "SK", "serial killer", "ind" (indy/independent), and "rogue" in Epi's post history here.

Contrasts with this game nicely at least.

[MacDougall]

J3 do you find town boring?

Splints the first engagement I had in thread was someone trying to insinuate that I was Mafia. I'm not going to pity you for biting off more than you can chew when you signed up to be a sub or for nobody answerinf a question you asked once. Don't just ask once then get annoyed, ask again, ask until everyone gets so sick of seeing the question that they answer it just to make you stop.

Epi did this earlier and it worked.

Before anyone else mentions it, yes, I've voted to lynch a civvie four days in a row now.

Sorry town

It's not so much that you've voted for 4 civvies in 4 days that bothers me, personally. I don't really love that everyone you've voted for is dead, but it is still only 2 people so it's not totally damning yet.

I think your Mac theory is completely cockamamie, and I HATE cockamamie theories, as Syndicate players know. However, I think a baddie you would be foolish to pursue it so forcefully and for so long (over 5 pages). I finished reading that exchange and found myself leaning more civ on you than before.

Also, for the record, I don't know Roxy the best, but all her posts have read absolutely classic Roxy to me. The devil-may-care, I-play-my-game-and-no-one-can-stop-me attitude, the tunneling on Matt F, and just general tone seem normal to me.

I suppose I get fingersplints defending her, but as far as I can recall, defending her is literally the only thing fingers has done all game. That looks increasingly shady to me as interesting things happen in thread.

this is as much investment you are going to get out of me. I joined into the game late and in an impossible to catch up spot but was positive. Very nice of me. Then I was largely ignored. No one welcomed me. No one even tried to give me a summary I asked for. No one answered my question if there was a silencer. sorry if you guys wanted more out of me should have interacted with me sooner.

If you read through my posts I defended her and then people questioned my defense of her. It's not me who only wants to bring up Rox but if you are all going to keep questioning it then I'm forced to respond to it
I deserve to die because I missed a vote

fingers, I'm sorry you didn't feel included. If I'd have been more active when you joined, I'd have welcomed you.

Not posting any reads besides "Roxy is good, everyone who accuses her is bad." creates a vicious cycle, though. People will suspect you for not giving reads, and apparently being asked to defend/explain yourself makes you less willing to contribute new content.

Play the game how you want so it's fun for you. I'm not saying you need to even read half of what's been posted. But it would be super duper cool if you could read even just a player or two and tell me and others what you think about them. It'll help us catch baddies, and probably be more fun than just defending yourself about your Roxy read for days on end.

Here's where I'm at with splints.

Llama was an early game scum read for me. If I recall Llama was a third, not as close, lynch candidate on the day Long Con was lynched. This gave me pause at the time because I felt mathematically it was unlikely that there were two scum players on that day close to being lynched.

Splints since coming into the game, has ... been tough to read. Especially with the mod forced flavour posts. There has been a distinct lack of contribution, not in post volume, but in effort per post and he has blamed it on us being mean and not talking to him. I don't really get that line of thinking. If he replaced in, and is a townie, he should at the very least ISO the major lynch candidates of the day and spend a little while formulating reads. Immediately going to the thread and asking them to do the work for you is something I would expect a scum replacement trying to imitate town play to do.

Now if splints is scum, it most definitely opens up the likelihood of LC being bussed to ensure llama wasn't lynched. Possibly due to the perceived value of their roles side by side. This would then mean that the later votes on LC's lynch would almost certainly have scum on them.

I most definitely have an eye on splints right about now.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

fingersplints was highly aggressive against Black Rock in Economics Mafia. Turned out she was town and BR was mafia, so her read was accurate. Does anyone who played in or observed that game feel this parallel is meaningful?

[MacDougall]

I was more looking for in the wild examples of you being the overwhelming front runner of SK conversation and then you not being the serial killer.

Epi, I'm willing to be proven wrong about you. I'm not a one track minded tunneling fool. If you can show me some examples in other games that'd be great. Do you have any other games on the forum where you were a rogue?

Oh. In that case, I've been an independent killer one time and got killed Night 2.

Zero search results for "SK", "serial killer", "ind" (indy/independent), and "rogue" in Epi's post history here.

Contrasts with this game nicely at least.

Indeed it does. In fairness epi did only have about 8 or so posts on the subject at the time I read his ISO about the SK and it was later in the game than day 2. It wasn't that he had some it was that nobody else really had any in comparison. But yes, for the purpose of the exercise it's a good look for epi.

Epi, can you please link me to a few games you had a lot of posts in?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Diiny, explain your vote for Devin immediately.

[Russtifinko]

I know that. Don't you find it weird that he would just have two browser tabs open on the home page of the site? Like, who does that?

Oh, I didn't see the other arrow until I opened the full image.

That tab also says "View Topic", meaning he is reading one of the many forum topics on this site, possibly even another page in this thread. But also note he has a mysterious second window open.

Fantasy football on Yahoo, if you must know.

Ewww! ESPN is far superior.

Other thoughts:

I am shocked that someone (Mac) is managing to troll the thread harder than MM. I don't know whether to be exasperated or congratulate you.

I'm seeing a town Devin, even more today than previously. His playful posting reminds me of when I had BTSC with him in Bioshock. He was an SK, but we worked out an alliance, so we were aligned, and he was basically acting like this. He's basically acting like he's aligned with most of the thread to me, which would indicate civ. I dunno if that makes sense to anyone else, and hopefully it doesn't compound his problems, but I see it as a positive sign for him this game.

Linki: So yesterday all over again, except with unlimited choices? I would be so nervous haha. I'll say espers. Definitely not Devin, at this point.

Double Linki: hmmm, your llama point is an interesting one. I had been pretty much dismissing the bussing theory of LC, because it seems dumb to sacrifice a player AND give up a NK as a baddie, no matter how much cred you'd get. Your point actually makes me feel LESS sure she's bad, even though for you it apparently makes her look more bad.

JJJ, I hosted that game, but I honestly don't remember. And idk how long fingers and BR have known each other, so idk if it's an Epi-reading-Elo-type, always right kinda thing, or a one-off, game-specific, contextual one. Sorry, but I have no input on the Econ mafia point.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

voting sorsha

don't like some of the later votes on the devin wagon and straw's sorsha case was pretty compelling /piggybacking

no slight against the ppl defending sorsha, but you were wrong about lc, why should we believe you now?

Someone please tell me why the highlighted bit isn't one of the worst sentences in this thread.

[Diiny]

Diiny, explain your vote for Devin immediately.

Was pushing to see if he'd respond. Doesn't look like it, does it? I haven't read the Devin case, all I really remember about him is that he tunnelled me in the early game

[Ricochet]

Yeah, Dev's self-vote is irksome, particularly because there aren't many votes left to be cast, so if Devin's defeatism is supposed to be a town tell, a second wagon can't be pushed to surpass him in the tally, except if players move their votes, either third party voters onto the alternative choice or votes coming off Devin. If Devin's actually bad, the latter could be precisely what he's aiming for. Such modifications could in general also affect the outcome, by making it a close result, open to manipulations, as JJJ pointed out.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Diiny, explain your vote for Devin immediately.

Was pushing to see if he'd respond. Doesn't look like it, does it? I haven't read the Devin case, all I really remember about him is that he tunnelled me in the early game

He just voted for himself, defying the rules and placing himself 2 votes in the lead, and declared he needed a replacement. Is this when it makes sense to reaction-bait?

[MacDougall]

I know that. Don't you find it weird that he would just have two browser tabs open on the home page of the site? Like, who does that?

Oh, I didn't see the other arrow until I opened the full image.

That tab also says "View Topic", meaning he is reading one of the many forum topics on this site, possibly even another page in this thread. But also note he has a mysterious second window open.

Fantasy football on Yahoo, if you must know.

Double Linki: hmmm, your llama point is an interesting one. I had been pretty much dismissing the bussing theory of LC, because it seems dumb to sacrifice a player AND give up a NK as a baddie, no matter how much cred you'd get. Your point actually makes me feel LESS sure she's bad, even though for you it apparently makes her look more bad.

No, that's not what I said. Splints and Llama have both pinged me individually. The fact that Llama was on the lynchwagon that day but LC got lynched does still make me feel likely Splints isn't a likely scum, but if Splints is scum, it does mean that LC was probably a bus job. I'm not saying that LC getting lynched makes Splints scummy and I'm not sure where you got that from.

[Epignosis]

I was more looking for in the wild examples of you being the overwhelming front runner of SK conversation and then you not being the serial killer.

Epi, I'm willing to be proven wrong about you. I'm not a one track minded tunneling fool. If you can show me some examples in other games that'd be great. Do you have any other games on the forum where you were a rogue?

Oh. In that case, I've been an independent killer one time and got killed Night 2.

Zero search results for "SK", "serial killer", "ind" (indy/independent), and "rogue" in Epi's post history here.

Contrasts with this game nicely at least.

It was a closed setup with no roles listed, as I recall, for what it's worth.

[MacDougall]

Diiny, explain your vote for Devin immediately.

Was pushing to see if he'd respond. Doesn't look like it, does it? I haven't read the Devin case, all I really remember about him is that he tunnelled me in the early game

He just voted for himself, defying the rules and placing himself 2 votes in the lead, and declared he needed a replacement. Is this when it makes sense to reaction-bait?

It would certainly be an ideal time to put a vote on him for self preservation knowing he's not going to defend himself anymore.

Kudos to you Jimmy for being the voice of the voiceless.

CM Punk reference #2 for the day.

[Epignosis]

fingersplints was highly aggressive against Black Rock in Economics Mafia. Turned out she was town and BR was mafia, so her read was accurate. Does anyone who played in or observed that game feel this parallel is meaningful?

To be fair to fingersplints (and Roxy), they both finished hosting a full game. I know what that's like, hosting and playing simultaneously.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Yeah, Dev's self-vote is irksome, particularly because there aren't many votes left to be cast, so if Devin's defeatism is supposed to be a town tell, a second wagon can't be pushed to surpass him in the tally, except if players move their votes, either third party voters onto the alternative choice or votes coming off Devin. If Devin's actually bad, the latter could be precisely what he's aiming for. Such modifications could in general also affect the outcome, by making it a close result, open to manipulations, as JJJ pointed out.

Hey, we could always lynch espers!

Need some alignment-reading credentials from LeaderJimmyJay?

~ Baddie-inclined read on LC
~ Town-inclined read on bea and Sorsha

Whatever happens I'll shoulder responsibility, as always before.

[Diiny]

Diiny, explain your vote for Devin immediately.

Was pushing to see if he'd respond. Doesn't look like it, does it? I haven't read the Devin case, all I really remember about him is that he tunnelled me in the early game

He just voted for himself, defying the rules and placing himself 2 votes in the lead, and declared he needed a replacement. Is this when it makes sense to reaction-bait?

didn't realise he self voted, only saw that he asked for a replacement at the time. Still, though, there's some sense putting pressure on someone who self votes. Remember haterade's reaction to votes piling onto him after his little moment?

[Black Rock]

fingersplints was highly aggressive against Black Rock in Economics Mafia. Turned out she was town and BR was mafia, so her read was accurate. Does anyone who played in or observed that game feel this parallel is meaningful?

That's not the first incident. We are at odds frequently. Sometimes we are civ vs civ, sometimes she's bad and sometimes I am.

I'm having a day. When I say a day, I mean I have been very angry all day and want to punch someone in the face. I am only coming in here to vote. I am going to vote Devin.

I am going to leave the Roxy and Splints thing alone for now. It turns out some of the shit I was reading in Roxy had other things going on that I was unaware of. With respect to Roxy I'm going to give her the benefit of the doubt.

I deserve to die for various reasons.

[Ricochet]

Yeah, Dev's self-vote is irksome, particularly because there aren't many votes left to be cast, so if Devin's defeatism is supposed to be a town tell, a second wagon can't be pushed to surpass him in the tally, except if players move their votes, either third party voters onto the alternative choice or votes coming off Devin. If Devin's actually bad, the latter could be precisely what he's aiming for. Such modifications could in general also affect the outcome, by making it a close result, open to manipulations, as JJJ pointed out.

Hey, we could always lynch espers!

Need some alignment-reading credentials from LeaderJimmyJay?

~ Baddie-inclined read on LC
~ Town-inclined read on bea and Sorsha

Whatever happens I'll shoulder responsibility, as always before.

Yeah no, tin foil version of that is: meticulous gradual bussing of LC and conscious defending of would-flip-civilians. Not ready to give you the leader crown yet.

I feel the same way about Epignosis, except in his case: WIFOM defending of LC and conscious defending of would-flip-civilians.

I can never find the time and strength so far to put a proper case on the two of you, but my gut is simply bursting that one of you, at least, is pulling a big one on us.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Diiny, explain your vote for Devin immediately.

Was pushing to see if he'd respond. Doesn't look like it, does it? I haven't read the Devin case, all I really remember about him is that he tunnelled me in the early game

He just voted for himself, defying the rules and placing himself 2 votes in the lead, and declared he needed a replacement. Is this when it makes sense to reaction-bait?

didn't realise he self voted, only saw that he asked for a replacement at the time. Still, though, there's some sense putting pressure on someone who self votes. Remember haterade's reaction to votes piling onto him after his little moment?

I don't. Only refresh my memory if it is truly relevant, because I don't think this parallel makes sense.

Your vote was the 7th for Devin and gave him a near-commanding lead. I struggle to believe you when you tell me that you were "applying pressure". I know you could see the tally prior to that because you had your vote on me.

[Epignosis]

Epi, can you please link me to a few games you had a lot of posts in?

I gave some of these to FZ. earlier. Let me see if I can find the post...

Here is the relevant snippet, with links embedded:

WWE: Loud and in charge and a civilian loser. (410 posts)
Death Note: Loud and rational and a civilian loser. (663 posts)

Someone once told me I should try being quiet and listen. I've gone that route a few times and I won my first full game ever as a civilian. Frisky Dingo, with 338 posts.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Yeah no, tin foil version of that is: meticulous gradual bussing of LC and conscious defending of would-flip-civilians. Not ready to give you the leader crown yet.

Yeah I know anything I say can be tin foiled, I don't care. Town needs to cooperate to win, and that means we have to have a little dang trust. Following me now is not equivalent to following me forever.

I can never find the time and strength so far to put a proper case on the two of you, but my gut is simply bursting that one of you, at least, is pulling a big one on us.

Until you produce such a case, this is meaningless to me. I'm sorry, I mean no disrespect: I am just very thin on patience right now. We need to take command of this game before it slips out of reach. We're in a bad position.

[Diiny]

Diiny, explain your vote for Devin immediately.

Was pushing to see if he'd respond. Doesn't look like it, does it? I haven't read the Devin case, all I really remember about him is that he tunnelled me in the early game

He just voted for himself, defying the rules and placing himself 2 votes in the lead, and declared he needed a replacement. Is this when it makes sense to reaction-bait?

didn't realise he self voted, only saw that he asked for a replacement at the time. Still, though, there's some sense putting pressure on someone who self votes. Remember haterade's reaction to votes piling onto him after his little moment?

I don't. Only refresh my memory if it is truly relevant, because I don't think this parallel makes sense.

Your vote was the 7th for Devin and gave him a near-commanding lead. I struggle to believe you when you tell me that you were "applying pressure". I know you could see the tally prior to that because you had your vote on me.

Basically, he self voted and got put into the lead. Seeing that his tactic hadn't worked, he quickly had to weakly argue his way out of it, and a similar reaction could've happened. Also, a vote commands a certain amount of pressure regardless of the tally. Telling someone they're the scummiest player in the game always has some effect. Plus I have the leverage of being his apparent arch nemesis this game

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I'm having a day. When I say a day, I mean I have been very angry all day and want to punch someone in the face. I am only coming in here to vote. I am going to vote Devin.

I hope your day improves, truly.

Please don't leave though without expanding on your vote. Why Devin?

[Diiny]

May be having a brain fart, J, but tell me why that sentence of espers was so bad?

[Epignosis]

Yeah no, tin foil version of that is: meticulous gradual bussing of LC and conscious defending of would-flip-civilians. Not ready to give you the leader crown yet.

Yeah I know anything I say can be tin foiled, I don't care. Town needs to cooperate to win, and that means we have to have a little dang trust. Following me now is not equivalent to following me forever.

I can never find the time and strength so far to put a proper case on the two of you, but my gut is simply bursting that one of you, at least, is pulling a big one on us.

Until you produce such a case, this is meaningless to me. I'm sorry, I mean no disrespect: I am just very thin on patience right now. We need to take command of this game before it slips out of reach. We're in a bad position.

Tell me what town cooperating looks like.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Basically, he self voted and got put into the lead. Seeing that his tactic hadn't worked, he quickly had to weakly argue his way out of it, and a similar reaction could've happened. Also, a vote commands a certain amount of pressure regardless of the tally. Telling someone they're the scummiest player in the game always has some effect. Plus I have the leverage of being his apparent arch nemesis this game

If it turns out that Devin has nothing to say, what is your intention?

[Ricochet]

Yeah no, tin foil version of that is: meticulous gradual bussing of LC and conscious defending of would-flip-civilians. Not ready to give you the leader crown yet.

Yeah I know anything I say can be tin foiled, I don't care. Town needs to cooperate to win, and that means we have to have a little dang trust. Following me now is not equivalent to following me forever.

I can never find the time and strength so far to put a proper case on the two of you, but my gut is simply bursting that one of you, at least, is pulling a big one on us.

Until you produce such a case, this is meaningless to me. I'm sorry, I mean no disrespect: I am just very thin on patience right now. We need to take command of this game before it slips out of reach. We're in a bad position.

I agree, but I also find the situation very uninspiring at the moment, as if in dire need of a second mafia flip instead of countless civ losses. Or at least I'm just feeling very uninspired myself, I've been very off so far in this game, to the point of wondering if I shouldn't reverse my reads to find the actual culprits. Which brings us to what I've previously said...but again, that's just gut.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Tell me what town cooperating looks like.

Transparency about all reads, playing with one's hand revealed to the thread, willingness to work alongside people who are not one's suspects despite the back-of-mind worry about being duped.

[Russtifinko]

I know that. Don't you find it weird that he would just have two browser tabs open on the home page of the site? Like, who does that?

Oh, I didn't see the other arrow until I opened the full image.

That tab also says "View Topic", meaning he is reading one of the many forum topics on this site, possibly even another page in this thread. But also note he has a mysterious second window open.

Fantasy football on Yahoo, if you must know.

Double Linki: hmmm, your llama point is an interesting one. I had been pretty much dismissing the bussing theory of LC, because it seems dumb to sacrifice a player AND give up a NK as a baddie, no matter how much cred you'd get. Your point actually makes me feel LESS sure she's bad, even though for you it apparently makes her look more bad.

No, that's not what I said. Splints and Llama have both pinged me individually. The fact that Llama was on the lynchwagon that day but LC got lynched does still make me feel likely Splints isn't a likely scum, but if Splints is scum, it does mean that LC was probably a bus job. I'm not saying that LC getting lynched makes Splints scummy and I'm not sure where you got that from.

Yeah, I misworded what i meant slightly. I think we agree that llama's position in that lynch makes fingers look better. However, you seem to think the bussing theory is still somewhat likely, whereas I think it's at best a remote possibility.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I agree, but I also find the situation very uninspiring at the moment, as if in dire need of a second mafia flip instead of countless civ losses. Or at least I'm just feeling very uninspired myself, I've been very off so far in this game, to the point of wondering if I shouldn't reverse my reads to find the actual culprits. Which brings us to what I've previously said...but again, that's just gut.

I know we haven't played together much yet, but based on what I've seen I think you're an extremely capable townie both for your attention to detail and willingness to dig into hard data. If you're town, then smack yourself in the face, drink a protein shake, do 50 push ups, and stop accepting the hapless slaughter being performed by the baddies.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

[Russtifinko]

Russ, if the phase ended in 25 seconds and your vote was certain to secure the final kill, where would your vote go?

You posted this while I was trapped in linki, right? In case you missed it, espers. Although my mouse hand would be twitching about possibly going for Epi, as well.

Linki: Diiny, that sentence of espers' is bad because the conclusion doesn't follow from the fact. Someone being wrong once, especially in mafia, is a stupid reason to discount everything they ever say in the future.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Linki: Diiny, that sentence of espers' is bad because the conclusion doesn't follow from the fact. Someone being wrong once, especially in mafia, is a stupid reason to discount everything they ever say in the future.

Yep! PLUS that bad assertion was based upon a false assertion: that the people defending Sorsha were also defending LC. Nope nope nope.

[Ricochet]

I agree, but I also find the situation very uninspiring at the moment, as if in dire need of a second mafia flip instead of countless civ losses. Or at least I'm just feeling very uninspired myself, I've been very off so far in this game, to the point of wondering if I shouldn't reverse my reads to find the actual culprits. Which brings us to what I've previously said...but again, that's just gut.

I know we haven't played together much yet, but based on what I've seen I think you're an extremely capable townie both for your attention to detail and willingness to dig into hard data. If you're town, then smack yourself in the face, drink a protein shake, do 50 push ups, and stop accepting the hapless slaughter being performed by the baddies.

Just so you know, you are dead meat post-game, if you just pep talked me as a baddie.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Just so you know, you are dead meat post-game, if you just pep talked me as a baddie.

Wanna know a secret about JJJ's meta?

He's capable of making a million posts as a bad guy, but he has never poured his heart and soul into a game as a bad guy. He has not mastered that art yet.

I want to kill the scum forever and win and stuff.

[Epignosis]

Tell me what town cooperating looks like.

Transparency about all reads, playing with one's hand revealed to the thread, willingness to work alongside people who are not one's suspects despite the back-of-mind worry about being duped.

I raised an important question about Sorsha four times the day she got lynched and I think I got one response.

I think a large number of people aren't reading the thread.