a2thezebra wrote:THE MP BEING PROBLEMATIC AF COMPILATION POST
MovingPictures07 wrote:JaggedJimmyJay wrote:It pains me to disparage a lady, but I do believe Elohcin's response to that random vote from her husband was a bit lifeless. Considering she is here to see Neil Hartley live and in the flesh, I know she isn't that bored. The look on her face, it's giving Neil the wrong impression.
MovingPictures07 wrote:Elohcin wrote:I know nothing of this show, so JJJ is confusing me a bit. I may vote him. It seems a little 'trying too hard' to come in here role play like that right off the bat. Like he is trying to win us over. What do y'all think? And this is not WIFOM talking...whatever that is. I never understood that term completely. but you all seem to use it for when you go after someone who has gone after you? I don't know.
I'll hold off on voting for now.
The "trying too hard" argument bothers me, but
I'm not sure I find you suspicious for it. I just don't agree. Also,
Neil Hartley has nothing to do with Mad Max.
MovingPictures07 wrote:JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Elohcin wrote:I know nothing of this show, so JJJ is confusing me a bit. I may vote him. It seems a little 'trying too hard' to come in here role play like that right off the bat. Like he is trying to win us over. What do y'all think? And this is not WIFOM talking...whatever that is. I never understood that term completely. but you all seem to use it for when you go after someone who has gone after you? I don't know?
What a wild post, madame! How would you feel if
Neil Hartley told you that you "tried too hard" to find something negative to say about his roleplay! I think you might be bad news, and I'm gonna inform security to keep an eye on your table.
Elohcin
How much of this serious?
I know I've already brought up these first three posts but no one responded and later Dom asked me for some elaboration on my MP read so they can't not be in this post. I mean these alone are, or at least should be, pretty damning knowing how things played out. MP begins his Eloh read fabrication with literally just a ponder smiley, the most obvious "I'm just going to go wherever town goes with this" reaction you could possibly have. It's especially irreconcilable with the MP-is-civ narrative because civ MP rarely responds to posts with just a smiley, especially one as vague and open to different trajectories as the pondering one. MP almost always delivers his definitive thoughts on anything and everything he addresses, more often than not going into more detail than most right from the get go. For him to not even say whether he agrees, disagrees, or is undecided on the matter of Eloh's lifelessness and instead to deliver a reaction that could interpreted as all three, or at the time even suspicion of
JJJ rather than Eloh, is pretty bad. And that's just the
first post.
What in the name of the piano is up with that second post? The waffliness of it is just scratching the surface, there's a glaring contradiction there that PROVES MP was fabricating his read of Eloh at least at the time. I've fabricated reads before as a civ myself just to not get lynched, so I'm not saying that MP is confirmed bad because he has a confirmed fake read. If something bothers you about another player alignment-wise, then of course you find them suspicious for it. If you don't find the other player suspicious for it, then it bothers you in a way that is unrelated to the game, which obviously isn't the case here, given that what's apparently bothersome to MP here is the "trying too hard" argument. How would that argument go about bothering someone in a way that isn't suspicious? MP goes on to say that he just doesn't "agree"....what???? If you simply don't agree with an argument, then you disagree with it. You don't say that it
bothers you, unless it bothers you by peaking your suspicion. To make matters worse, MP outright say that he didn't find Eloh suspicious for it, he said that he fucking
wasn't sure if he found her suspicious for it. Are you serious?
And then there's the icing on the cake which is the third post. After two posts that express undefined, neutral, and contradictory views on Eloh, he then asks JJJ how much of his post expressing suspicion of her is serious. This
clearly implies that MP was taken aback by JJJ's post, but why would he be? Beyond the fluff of the role-playing, there's nothing in that post to suggest that JJJ is kidding around with what he was saying there, so why would it produce a reaction like the one MP had?
Seriously people, pretend that you know that MP is good and then read those three posts. Then pretend that you know that MP is bad and then read those three posts. Knowing Eloh's flip, which hypothesis makes more sense?
Oh but I'm just getting started. Those were just the posts that I had already quoted earlier.
MovingPictures07 wrote:Elohcin wrote:going for self preservation here...
We have 24 hours (or had as of the time of your post) in this game. Why self-preservation so early?
I believe that Eloh's Day 1 self-preservation vote was a co-ordinated effort between her and MP to lower suspicions of both of them, for Eloh in the short-term and for MP in the long-term. Here me out please. When Elohcin posted that she was voting out of self-preservation, the next minute JJJ responded by asking what was her beef with bwt, her vote of choice. Between that time and MP's post here quite a few players posted and none of them thought to ask her why she would make a self-preservation vote/post so early. Only MP had that thought. Eloh's self-preservation vote was meant to look too risky or clumsy for a baddie and then MP was meant to come in, call it out, and earn them both town credit WHILE distancing from each other WHILE low key scum-reading each other. MP being the one to call out Eloh's self-preservation vote also helped him later on when his read of Eloh became stronger and stronger in the baddie direction, and I'll get into just how arbitrary it was that it went that way and not the opposite.
MovingPictures07 wrote:JaggedJimmyJay wrote:
MovingPictures07
Scotty
sprityo
Elohcin
I'm orange!
In another peculiarly out-of-character moment for MP, he responds to a full rainbow rankings list from JJJ not commenting on any of the reads but his own, and even then it's not to challenge JJJ's baddie-leaning read of him but just to say that he's happy that he's orange. Pure fluff from a player that again, is not only not known for fluff but is well-known for being a steamroller of hard content. This is clearly because Elohcin was JJJ's only red read and he wanted to draw attention away from it without actually confronting it and risking revealing that they are teammates. You know he was nervous about that possibility because the risk wasn't even that high on Day 1 and he still avoided having a concrete read on Elohcin himself like the plague, and his only comments both referencing her and the ones addressed to her allow for complete ambiguity.
Case in point: his very next post regarding Elohcin.
MovingPictures07 wrote:JaggedJimmyJay wrote:MovingPictures07 wrote:
How much of this serious?
All of it
Got it, thanks. Just wasn't fully able to discern due to the roleplay (which I'm cool with and enjoying, btw).
What's the point of getting confirmation that a post was serious if you're not going to make any comment regarding the post's content? It would be one thing if MP didn't comment on the post whatsoever, but for him to ask how much of it serious, get confirmation that the entirety of it is serious, but then to not have anything to say about it or any questions or clarifications or anything, looks really, really bad, especially in the context of MP's playstyle which again, normally isn't as fluffy and vague as
all of his Eloh-related posts up to this point have been.
MovingPictures07 wrote:a2thezebra
Dom
MacDougall
LoRab
Neil Hartley
Ricochet
Sloonei
S~V~S
birdwithteeth11
DrWilgy
sanmateo
Elohcin
Epignosis
Glorfindel
insertnamehere
motel room
Scotty
sprityo
Here is MP's first rainbow list. With the names in each category (of which there are only three and
none of them are red) being in alphabetical order, that basically renders this list pointless which is all the worse factoring in the reluctance to deliver Day 1 content on Eloh. Think about it; this list is literally eight townies, three nulls, and seven ehhh-kinda-suspicious-but-not-really-but-we-shall-sees. That's bad. If MP was a civ trying to genuinely contribute, why would he go to the trouble of making a rainbow list that doesn't offer any more real information than a post merely naming two or three reads at most would? Simple, it's a replication of contribution rather than town-motivated contribution.
I'm sorry I just have to emphasize that so far we've gone through seven posts that either reference Eloh or go out of their way not to reference Eloh, one of them being a fucking rainbow rankings list, and we still know essentially nothing about what MP's read of Eloh was at this point in the game. And no, being one of seven
orange reads on Day 1 means approximately jack shit. That could have and would have changed if suspicions of Eloh had decreased after Day 1 rather than increased.
MovingPictures07 wrote:Elohcin wrote:
I seriously thought his actions were a joke or trying to get a rise out of me or something. I think my reaction was what would determine his thoughts of me. Too bad I had to react after midnight after several drinks (when I don't drink often at all). It probably is what started me off on the wrong track for this game.
Now, as for my vote today (Day 1
) I can see where scotty can be bad. I am moving my vote there. I don't want to vote BWT if I don't have to. Hate to lose a possible civ position even if it's a quiet one.
You can see it? What about the Scotty case is convincing to you?
I'm not even sure what MP meant by the first question and frankly I don't think he did either. Eloh said that she could see where Scotty could be bad, and he asks her if she can see that? Unless he's referencing something else? The problem here is that MP's indeci
siveness is being reflected on his interaction with Eloh here. Instead of asking her about his read of her or her read of him, he asks her about Scotty. The second question makes sense because it's asking for elaboration, but it just makes the first question look even more forced and out of place.
MovingPictures07 wrote:Rainbow #2
a2thezebra
Dom
MacDougall
motel room
Sloonei
S~V~S
LoRab
Neil Hartley
birdwithteeth11
DrWilgy
sanmateo
Ricochet
Scotty
Elohcin
Epignosis
Glorfindel
insertnamehere
sprityo
While five categories is much better than three, this reads list still puts each category in alphabetical order (meaning there's really only five actual rankings) and there's still no red reads. It helps that Elohcin is in the bottom five but in a way that makes it worse because MP's apparent growing confidence in his baddie read of Eloh is only reflected in his rainbow rankings lists and not the rest of his content. But where MP really digs his own grave is in his very next post where he makes the mistake of elaborating on nothing. I'll just skip to the juice.
MovingPictures07 wrote:
- The five remaining names in my moderate mafia list are not particularly crazy suspicious, but I am not inspired to believe any of them are town at this time based on what they have posted.
If this isn't the nail in the coffin then I don't know what is. How the hell is the bottom five names in your MODERATE mafia list not even "particularly crazy suspicious"? First of all, what a hilarious phrase. Not. Particularly. Crazy. Suspicious. Tell me MP, what does "not particularly crazy suspicious" mean exactly? Are those five names not particularly crazy suspicious because they're just plain crazy suspicious without the particularly? Are they not particularly crazy suspicious because none of them are crazy to the best of our knowledge? Are they not particularly crazy suspicious because all of them are particularly crazy yet none of them are suspicious?
My point is that MP is saying nothing by saying everything, and this is his prime strategy as a baddie. When you're flooded with his content in any game you're going to get a lot of concrete (hard reads) and a lot of ambiguity (softer and/or less consistent reads) but what you're not going to get - unless he's bad - is fake content. That's what his first two rainbow rankings posts are and he just illustrated as much himself. It would be like if I did a rainbow rankings list with just two categories: strong town reads and slight town reads. No mafia reads, no neutral reads, no null reads. Just strong town and light town. I could rank them all in order most town to least town, but
they're all town reads, so it wouldn't mean shit. But in reality what MP did here is even worse than the scenario I just described, because MP only ranked the different sections of his first two lists by fucking
alphabetical order. All of this could have been redeemed if MP delivered some hard scum reads, or at least left it open for others to assume that his bottom reads
were his hard scum reads, but he had to go and clarify that
not even his bottom reads he found particularly crazy suspicious. That means that someone at the time of the second rainbow list could have asked him who he would most likely to vote for, and if he had answered them that would've been more of a real contribution than his two rainbow lists combined.
And just to keep things from being misunderstood, I do believe MP is contributing. I just don't think it's civ-minded contribution. I think he's bad.
Sloonei's the player I've gone back and forth on the most in my mind this game. There's just something about how he's playing this that rubs me the wrong way. Working hard to discredit people, making himself the arbiter on what posts are content worthy and what are not, asking leading questions by the dozen. About 50% of his gameplay seems to consist of calling other people's posts valueless, or just asking others questions, most of which are fishing for a specific thing that will confirm Sloonei's viewpoint. Ironically, I've had a hard time finding value in a fair amount of his posts. Now, before Sloonei starts interrogating me for the upteenth time asking for sources for my slanderous claims, let me state that I have no idea if Sloonei is civ or not, and I'm not sure if my disagreement with some of his methods means absolutely anything at all. Note the "50%" and "some of his methods." Sloonei has contributed lots of detailed analysis that I would deem full of value, and by no means do all of his posts fall into the categories that I described earlier. Plus, I'm not exactly certain if I can fit him into a partnership with anyone. He just doesn't fit into any of my mental categories. Hell, I go back and forth on whether or not I'm too biased to even have a single opinion on Sloonei! I can guess what Sloonei would think. 
