Recruitment Mafia IV: Dawn of the Clans (End Game)

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I hope it's clear that when I say I've played with MP more than anyone on TS, I don't mean I have played with him more than other TSers have played with him. That's definitely not true.

[Dom]

Dom, you are literally asking why I don't use the same language when describing suspects as I do when describing people I don't suspect. Who in the history of Mafia has ever done that?

I am asking why you used language to create a bias. This is not something I have really observed you do. Maybe because it's against me, I'm noticing it more, but I just think your post was so ridiculously biased. You used only friendly, non threatening language about the guy who literally threw a tantrum and told other people to stop playing (that is new territory as far as I'm concerned). Meanwhile, you made no effort, in my opinion to remain objective.


I think you're misguided. I haven't seen this type of behavior as a pattern.

[DharmaHelper]

I think spacedaisy has played with MP more than anyone. Congrats on the wedding again, by the way.

[Dom]

I hope it's clear that when I say I've played with MP more than anyone on TS, I don't mean I have played with him more than other TSers have played with him. That's definitely not true.

to clarify, do you mean you have played with MP more than you have played with other players on TS?
I did not interpret that original statement as such.

[Dom]

I think spacedaisy has played with MP more than anyone. Congrats on the wedding again, by the way.

[Draconus]

I just wanted to say that I've changed my mind and asked to be replaced, despite how amazing this game really is, and how long I've been looking forward to it. I will continue playing if LC and BR don't have a replacement or there's someone else who actually needs the replacement (I'd rather give it to someone else before myself), but otherwise it's clearly best if I deal with my own stress outside of the thread and find a new less emotionally stressful hobby for the current duration and for the foreseeable future while I juggle teaching for the first time, my PhD class workload, and trying to figure out my dissertation, among other things. I hope all of you will understand. I apologize again for my behavior not only in this game that was distinctly un-fun, but for anything I've done to make anyone else's game un-fun in previous games.

If I'm going to do my best to stay in this and participate when I can, you're going to stay in this and not be a nub as often as possible m'kay?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I hope it's clear that when I say I've played with MP more than anyone on TS, I don't mean I have played with him more than other TSers have played with him. That's definitely not true.

to clarify, do you mean you have played with MP more than you have played with other players on TS?
I did not interpret that original statement as such.

Yes, that's what I mean. I have played with MP more than I have played with anyone else on TS (save for Sloonei, duh).

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Dom, you are literally asking why I don't use the same language when describing suspects as I do when describing people I don't suspect. Who in the history of Mafia has ever done that?

I am asking why you used language to create a bias. This is not something I have really observed you do. Maybe because it's against me, I'm noticing it more, but I just think your post was so ridiculously biased. You used only friendly, non threatening language about the guy who literally threw a tantrum and told other people to stop playing (that is new territory as far as I'm concerned). Meanwhile, you made no effort, in my opinion to remain objective.

I think you're misguided. I haven't seen this type of behavior as a pattern.

I might be misguided. It wouldn't be the first time.

I didn't use negative language about MP because I didn't think his behavior was indicative of him being a baddie. Alignment is my only concern here. I did see things in your posts during that exchange that I found suspicious, and that was reflected in my explanation of that suspicion. I think you'll find I am generally harder on people I suspect than I am on people I don't suspect.

Isn't everyone?

[Dom]

Dom, you are literally asking why I don't use the same language when describing suspects as I do when describing people I don't suspect. Who in the history of Mafia has ever done that?

I am asking why you used language to create a bias. This is not something I have really observed you do. Maybe because it's against me, I'm noticing it more, but I just think your post was so ridiculously biased. You used only friendly, non threatening language about the guy who literally threw a tantrum and told other people to stop playing (that is new territory as far as I'm concerned). Meanwhile, you made no effort, in my opinion to remain objective.

I think you're misguided. I haven't seen this type of behavior as a pattern.

I might be misguided. It wouldn't be the first time.

I didn't use negative language about MP because I didn't think his behavior was indicative of him being a baddie. Alignment is my only concern here. I did see things in your posts during that exchange that I found suspicious, and that was reflected in my explanation of that suspicion. I think you'll find I am generally harder on people I suspect than I am on people I don't suspect.

Isn't everyone?

I just think your language was extreme. I think you made no effort to be objective despite the fact that you said you had. You made it seem like I was kicking a cat. This is what I was anticipating in my "asshole" post.

[Dom]

I hope it's clear that when I say I've played with MP more than anyone on TS, I don't mean I have played with him more than other TSers have played with him. That's definitely not true.

to clarify, do you mean you have played with MP more than you have played with other players on TS?
I did not interpret that original statement as such.

Yes, that's what I mean. I have played with MP more than I have played with anyone else on TS (save for Sloonei, duh).

See, i thought you were saying that you played with MP more than anyone else on the Syndicate has...

[thellama73]

Also, MP'S good case on me was just quoting and commenting on all of my posts to get a response out of me. Not totally a case

That's pretty much what I said about it.

[Turnip Head]

I think spacedaisy has played with MP more than anyone. Congrats on the wedding again, by the way.

It's true, I think they have had plenty Behind The Scenes Contact

[thellama73]

I hope it's clear that when I say I've played with MP more than anyone on TS, I don't mean I have played with him more than other TSers have played with him. That's definitely not true.

I actually totally misunderstood that, and was confused.

[Turnip Head]

Have JJJ and MovingPictures ever had BTSC before?

[Epignosis]

And people don't like grammar why exactly?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I just think your language was extreme. I think you made no effort to be objective despite the fact that you said you had. You made it seem like I was kicking a cat. This is what I was anticipating in my "asshole" post.

I think if you compare the language I employed against you with the language I used in other suspicion I've expressed in this game and on this site, you won't find it so terribly different as you seem to think.

Also, you might be associating my ISOs with this case against you -- that would be one reason I could see you legitimately feeling I was being less objective than I usually am. There's a reason for that: when I ISO players, it's because I am generating a read -- not clarifying a read that exists already. With you I wasn't doing that; I had already developed suspicion based on your conduct in that exchange with MP and I explained exactly why in the form of a case.

One thing people have done constantly here since I joined is confuse my ISOs with my cases. They aren't the same thing and the language between them is likely to be different in severity.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Have JJJ and MovingPictures ever had BTSC before?

He and I were on a 3-man mason team in RYM84. Otherwise no.

[Dom]

I just think your language was extreme. I think you made no effort to be objective despite the fact that you said you had. You made it seem like I was kicking a cat. This is what I was anticipating in my "asshole" post.

I think if you compare the language I employed against you with the language I used in other suspicion I've expressed in this game and on this site, you won't find it so terribly different as you seem to think.

Also, you might be associating my ISOs with this case against you -- that would be one reason I could see you legitimately feeling I was being less objective than I usually am. There's a reason for that: when I ISO players, it's because I am generating a read -- not clarifying a read that exists already. With you I wasn't doing that; I had already developed suspicion based on your conduct in that exchange with MP and I explained exactly why in the form of a case.

One thing people have done constantly here since I joined is confuse my ISOs with my cases. They aren't the same thing and the language between them is likely to be different in severity.

...what is the difference?

[Draconus]

Devin, why do you suppose your Golden and Sorsha votes would have been risky as a baddie?

Because at the time of each of my votes I broke a tie between 2 vote-getters. If the people I voted were to be lynched and flipped civ, I would probably be the first person up for questioning. Doesn't mean that I regret either of my votes, though. Just means that it wouldn't have been a very smart or strategic thing for baddie Devin to do.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

...what is the difference?

An ISO is never meant to be a case. Sometimes it becomes one if that's how the content shakes out, but usually it is just the live-action development of a read. I tend to ISO players either when I don't have a read on them, or if I have an intuition and want to check it against actual thread data to make sure it fits.

The act of compiling posts within an ISO and stating my perspective of them is how I generate reads of people. It's hard to do in a game this large, but in many games I like to ISO absolutely everyone. The rainbows so many people seem to hate are my fault too; they're typically the end-result of a series of ISOs in which I summarize my reads in a tiered order.

Some ISOs end with strong civilian reads. Some end with "I have no idea what this person is" reads. Some end with baddie reads. That's how objectivity happens -- I don't know what the read will be until I'm finished with the ISO compilation. Good points and bad points are weighed against one another to come to a final conclusion.

When I build a case I don't have the same objective. I am not developing a read; I am explaining a read that is already there (a baddie read). The point of a case is to show everyone else why I feel a certain player might be bad, and to influence them to either join my cause or tell me where they disagree.

[Dom]

What does ISO stand for? I was afraid to ask earlier.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

What does ISO stand for? I was afraid to ask earlier.

Isolation. It can be used to describe a player's isolated post history (my post history is my ISO) in a game. Or it can be the actual compiled analysis itself (this is the ISO I've compiled on JJJ). Or as a verb (I ISO'd JJJ and decided he seems good/bad/whatever).

[Marmot]

And people don't like grammar why exactly?

Because if grammar were applied on this sentence, it wouldn't make sense.

[Dom]

What does ISO stand for? I was afraid to ask earlier.

Isolation. It can be used to describe a player's isolated post history (my post history is my ISO) in a game. Or it can be the actual compiled analysis itself (this is the ISO I've compiled on JJJ). Or as a verb (I ISO'd JJJ and decided he seems good/bad/whatever).

Oh....

See... I never interpreted your posts as such tbh.

[Long Con]

The Peace of Death

Ubzargan's army was firmly entrenched for many miles across the realm, and the stories of brutality and death had reached far and wide. One man, a cinematic display cyborg known as MovingPictures07, had had enough. He stood atop a large marble sculpture depicting the fall of Erlatz the Conqueror, and shouted to the passersby.

"We must not STAND for this anymore! For the betrayal! For the backstabbing! For the accusations!" He raised his fist into the air as his projector shone scenes of war and bloodshed holographically into the air. Warriors kicking in doors and executing families. Guardians calling upon the Lifeforce to cause choking vines to strangle perceived intruders into their lands. A giant, golden-eyed beast wrapping its spined black tentacles around a stone tower and pulling it down, killing the soldiers within.

"THIS is what is happening to our realm! THIS is what this conflict will bring to each of your doorsteps! Each of you, like me, must deny your accusers, and seek only the truth: that we must STAND TOGETHER if any of us are to survive!"

As he shouted, MovingPictures07 didn't noticed that the listening crowd had shifted, with regular folks fleeing the scene, only to be replaced by Warriors of the Shadows.

"I will dedicate my life," he continued, "to calling out the wafflers, the suit-disturbers, and those of you who want to straddle both sides of the fence! If we stand together against the trash that would see us fall, then we, er-" He paused as his eyes made contact with a tall, imposing figure, whose natural eye glared with an impossible to ignore fire, and whose red cyborg eye observed all with a cold and evil gleam.

Ubzargan held out his hands. "What?" he cried mockingly. "Nothing more to say? Friend, although I respect your fervor..." He moved frighteningly quickly, rushing up and burying a long blade deep into MovingPictures07's torso. "... must offer my own form of rebuttal."

MP07 choked and gurgled, a despairing expression on his face as Ubzargan held him close, burying the blade deeper. "I release you from your stress, my friend," whispered Ubzargan. "Your fight is over, and you go now to a well-deserved eternal sleep. I trust it doesn't hurt to much?"

"I... I can't feel anything," said MP, eyes unfocused. Ubzargan nodded, and waited until the life had left MovingPictures07's eyes before lowering him to the ground.

* * * * *

Meanwhile, elsewhere in town, the Brutal Executioner had chosen a victim to taste the blade of his black steel axe. LoRab, beaten and weak, was knelt before a thick wooden block, her head held by another Warrior. The Executioner raised his axe, but LoRab still had some fight left in her. She turned her head and bit the Warrior's finger, hard, and jerked back as his grip loosened. Surprised, he reached for her, but just then the axe came down, severing both his hands. The axe blade buried itself deep into the wood, and as the other Warrior screamed and bled, the Executioner tugged, trying to free it. LoRab wasted no time, fleeing as fast as she could.

MovingPictures07 has been killed by Ubzargan the Ruthless. LoRab was not killed by the Brutal Executioner.

It is now Day 5. You are in Position 4 for this phase. More recruitments coming this period!

[thellama73]

Well, there he goes. RIP MP.

[Marmot]

Bye MP. That was my only suspect.

[Scotty]

Woosh I missed a lot.

RIP MP I'm sort of glad I wasn't around as much for his meltdown though the aftermath was troubling to me. I hope he takes the time he needs to rejuvenate himself for more mafia, since his presence will be missed.

I need to read through a bunch of the night phase will be back later with thoughts.

[Marmot]

I voted Devin as a placeholder.

Vote registered for Devin the Omnipotent

[Turnip Head]

Rest in peace MP.

[Marmot]

Hey look, I got MovingPictures07 nightkilled by mafia.

[Scotty]

Hey look, I got MovingPictures07 nightkilled by mafia.

Taking a page out of Golden's book, are we?

[Bubbles]

Just did a MONSTER catch up. Most of it was nastiness and drama, so I hella skimmed.

RIP unfurl ? and i am confused, why did unfurl get lynched and not me,according to the poll i got the most votes...?? if by some miracle im still alive i will be happy to address any questions! somewhat caught up and have time today

Lulz.There's loads of questions/comments/suspicions about you littered throughout the past few days. Go read. Find them. Answer them. Respond to them. Stop trying to make everyone bring the game to you.

BUT! Because I am a very kind and accommodating person, here is a question for you:
Why is your innocent act so unconvincing?

maybe because im not acting ? the game is based on suspicions so i get why you would think im faking, but im not. every single game ive played ive been a good guy, and yet every time im suspected heavily and usually lynched. im starting to think i stand out for all the wrong reasons and am making myself an easy target of myself, that maybe i SHOULD start acting for the sake of being part of it :/

Are we expected to believe that, even though you are "somewhat caught up" you are nonetheless baffled by the possibility of a lynch result being manipulated? Even with the plethora of vote manip powers and secrets floating around this game?

it has never happened before, i wanted to be sure it wasnt a mistake.

How do you feel about Roxy's attempt to absolve you/cover for you by suggesting that the hosts wouldn't trust you with a Big Role?

i feel sad about it, but its their game.

and fair point about not getting others to bring the game to me. i know you will think im acting again, but i said that because i thought the thread moves fast and people would have different questions by the time i posted.

[Bubbles]

RIP MP

[DharmaHelper]

Bye MP

[DharmaHelper]

I've had my eye on someone in the background for a few days now, and I think I have all my ducks in a row to get us a baddie. I'll post something tomorrow, promise, and hopefully it will lead to a solid lynch.

[Scotty]

So I'm gonna go backwards.

LoRab survived the Brutal Exec, who was looking for a Guardian tonight. What I am unclear with is if this was a failed attempt in the sense that the Exec guessed the wrong clan, or failed in the sense that she was protected. Night 2 was notably absent in a writeup, which also makes me wonder if Brutal Exec decided not/forgot to send in a kill that night.

@HOSTS- 1) If Brutal Executioner attempts to kill someone at night, will you always post such in the Nightpost?
2) If Brutal Executioner attempts to kill someone at night and guesses the wrong clan, will you always post such in the Nightpost?

The phrasing of the night post (maiming/deflection of the Exec) made it look like he was going to go through with the kill, but she got protection of some sort. Which leads me to believe LoRab is one of these Guardians:

Druidic Elder - Guardians of the Lifeforce
Position 2: Protect

Deathmask Shaman - Guardians of the Lifeforce
Position 2: Dead power usage of lynched player

If I'm reading this role right, perhaps could have utilized Golden's power tonight to protect herself?:
Wielder of Lightning - Brotherhood of the Inner Eye
Position 2: Picks Protect or Block

Unless a Random potion was used, those are the possibilities I see right now. Either way, I definitely don't see LoRab as a recruiter. Whether or not she has been recruited as a baddie is yet to be seen. I don't necessarily see anything stand-outish about LoRab as of now however.

[Long Con]

On Night 2, the Brutal Executioner targeted MovingPictures07, and it failed. I forgot to write the failed kill in as we intended to do, and I meant to correct that a few times already, but forgot.

Now, finally, that is known. Sorry for the lapse. It's just the price you all must pay for the benefits of Long Con hosting a game: Long Con is absent-minded sometimes.

[Canucklehead]

I'm hella glad LoRab survived. It's so nice having her playing again! I missed her smarts and her twirls and her refusal to take any shits from anyone. :LoRab:


(Not sure if that should've been in green or not....since it really has nothing to do with this game in particular, and everything to do with me being happy to have an old friend back...but I decided to leave it not green since I'm
Sure someone might think it's game-relevant....)

[Long Con]

The phrasing of the night post (maiming/deflection of the Exec) made it look like he was going to go through with the kill, but she got protection of some sort.

It is important to note that a blocked kill, a kill attempt on a protected person, and a failed kill will look the same in the night post, and be indistinguishable to the general player. Please do not try to read too deeply into the host posts for game mechanics clues, because they are intended to be entirely for creative purposes. Unless I hide something in there. Who knows? I don't want to close the door on that possibility, but as far as failed kills go, you don't know which it was for LoRab.

[DrWilgy]

@Long Con, was it LoRab or MP that didn't die? Your last post confused me...

[Scotty]

Also, no one really talked about the Master of Shadows over the last phase. What exactly was the purpose of that? He didn't vote, and said trivial comments that were of no significance except for:

who should I vote for?

Tell me what you look for in a candidate and I'll give you some ideas about which platform suits you best.

someone with alliterative usernames.

Then jokes to vote JJJ, but says "everyone is bad". I get literally 0 info from this dude being in the thread.

It's like the dude that comes to your house party, stands at the snack table all night nibbling on a little bit of everything, using his greasy-ass stubby fingers to scoop up the cheese fondue, then leaving as quickly as he came. I just don't get it. Maybe it's part of his Epic Challenge to trigger something?

I dunno. Very weird all around.


linki- ok thanks for clarifying, LC!

I then take back everything I said about LoRab being a Guardian.

[Scotty]

@Long Con, was it LoRab or MP that didn't die? Your last post confused me...

I thought it was clear that he said MP was targeted Night 2 by Exec, and killed last night by Ubzequelch

[DrWilgy]

Oh! Missed the N2 part. I should go to sleep. -_-

[Long Con]

@Long Con, was it LoRab or MP that didn't die? Your last post confused me...

I thought it was clear that he said MP was targeted Night 2 by Exec, and killed last night by Ubzequelch

That is Correct. The Brutal Executioner targeted MP on Night 2, and the kill failed, and he targeted LoRab on Night 4, and the kill failed.

[Scotty]

Argh I fell asleep looking through people that interacted with MP. I feel like It' one giant goose chase looking for motives, with all these power switches and this many people yet.

I'm gonna go to bed, but I'm reminding myself to look more closely at the Dom v. JJJ angle tomorrow.

@Dom's demeanor has been hovering somewhere around antagonistic, but I've never seen him play a game before. He's been pretty vocal about several people and so far hasn't been successful in catching a baddie (such as Golden, MP and me as examples) which doesn't sit well with me. But on the flip side, I do like that he is actively pressuring lots of other people at the same time with often legitimate reasoning- I'm still getting used to people's different playstyles in a game that is still comprised of a majority of neutrals, and Dom's playstyle certainly rattled me just for the headstrong and unabashed suspicions of people. At first I was reading him as baddie just for how aggressively he pursues people in discussions, but now I feel like he's just an unrecruited neutral. But that may change as we go, I'm sure.

@JJJ is a person that I haven't wanted to tackle due to his post count, which I know from BoB is the way he usually plays- he asks a lot of questions, he demands a lot of answers, and his Nitpicking skill is a legendary level 99. I'm sorry...I didn't really follow the train of thought in the Boomslang case- I read it over multiple times- multiple times- and never commented on it because I felt stupid, as if I were glossing over something integral to the argument. But the argument was very much localized in a small, logical lapse- I guess you could call it- on Boom's part; a lapse that JJJ latched onto fervently. I'm sure it would have swayed me if it didn't feel like I was taking a Semantics 401 course en route to my Masters in Philosophy. His responses to criticism are calm, collected, and carefully thought out. That could make him very dangerous if recruited by the wrong party. And that troubles me.

@JJJ Do you think you can see what I'm talking about with the qualifications that would make you a dangerous player? I would say you com off super town on the surface level, but I can also see you seeeeeemlessly slipping into badland. Thoughts?

It's taken me some time to acknowledge that some people have changed their playstyle this game to suit their interests- having Epic challenges and the hodgepodge of roles eliminates the directly inferred motivational aspect of people's actions, which leaves me high and dry.

OK, eyes are closing again, not good.

I also want to say that I have 2 scenarios in regards to yesterday's lynch: TinyBubbles is bad, and either moved herself out of the line of fire, or one of her teammates helped her out, or TinyBubbles is actually civ. That would be unfortunate, because as I think JJJ or Rico pointed out, her playstyle for this game is not different than her playstyle from BoB, in which I fully supported killing her for her blatant "I'm a civvv guyssss" post. This was of course utterly true, and made me feel like an ass.

But I also don't want to fall victim to the same shenanigans if she really is bad this game.

Will be back again hopefully 24 hours from now. Got a long day/journey tomorrow and I'm sick as a dog. I hate colds.

[nutella]

Welp, bye MP

[Ricochet]

Bye MP.

I'm gonna cut short on reviewing position 2, because apart from Uzbargan doing double damage, the Executioner's failed attempt, the lockdown not happening, the Master of Ancient Arts' and Immortal's vote manipulation not accounting to anything given the lynch switch, I don't think I see anything else that could have surfaced out in the open (lot of checks, blocks, protect, the Shield Spinner was safe from being killed by Uzbirh, etc.).

Here is position 4 for today

Put message in the thread through hosts [Children, civ leader]
Kill [Brotherhood, civ leader]
Poison [Warrior, mafia leader] ugh, this guy really gets to do too much damage in a row
Curse [Warrior, mafia leader]
Negative a vote [Sorcerer]
Vote worth 2 [Unaffiliated]
? [Warrior]
Power Absorber [Brotherhood]
Track the amount of votes each player ended up with [Children]
Silence [Guardian]
Seemer [Sorcerer]
Fire Vision [Sorcerer]
Immune to Ahriman Kill [Guardian]
Sees if a player is recruited [Guardian]
Coupler effect with ? [Children]
Restart night [Children]
Night Kill Survive [Warrior] So safe passage tonight
Temp BTSC [Guardian]
Choose a player, if they are targeting someone they need to pick a new target [Brotherhood]
Temp BTSC with dead player [Guardians]
Random Item give [Children]
Picks Player [Brotherhood]
Kill a Warrior [Warrior]
Chaos Curse [Sorcerer] What does this mean?
Choose three players, nothing can happen at night and none can be lynched the next day [Warrior] So three of us get safe passage N5/D6
Rogue Mercenary - Warrior Clan Big night for this fella
Knows who a Position 4 role targeted [Brotherhood]
Message to the thread [Children] or is it?
Cast a shadow on a player, all votes for that player will be cut in half [Warrior]
Low poster police [Brotherhood]
Every person who has voted for you in the past starts the lynch with 1 vote for each time they voted for you [Guardian]
If you are targeted with an odd number of night powers, they will all be negated. If you are targeted with an even number of night powers, you will attract the direction of another night power for each one you are already targeted with. [Sorcerer] Sounds like he'll get lucky or run into a lot of trouble tonight.
Check Player to see if Guardian [Guardian, indy leader]

----

Scotty, I think the purpose of Master of Shadow's presence was mainly attributed to his position, in that he was simply free to post as himself for a cycle. That he loafed and contributed with nothing was probably his choice. His previous positions allowed him to work at his leisure (choose his own position) or enjoy safe passage (position 5 during D2/N2). The question is whether he has acted like a recruited baddie or not, but I feel we have no info on this and it would take several layers to be able to project that.

[Ricochet]

No U: Please, quote the post where you are saying I did that. Or maybe we understand the term differently? Because I'm not seeing where I did that.

Not addressing your previous post: What have I not addressed?

Yes, I admit I probably have difficulties using the term the correct or classic way, I've been pointed that before. Nevertheless, here is one more time what I meant by you turning back to me something I did.

I make this post interpreting what you say or what your views/stances are.
You make this reply in which you interpret what I said in the same style I did. You don't even make it a secret that is your intention, as shown in the quote I already quoted.

So, to interpret your response in your own style etc.

You don't actually address, refute, etc. my interpretation of what you said - except for the inserted hint that you think I'm delegitimizing you - you just sling it back at me in the same manner. I get it that you felt I was dismissive in my interpretation, I get that you felt the need to reply in the same manner, nonetheless this is still a sort of redirect that has nothing to do with addressing the issue, but replying to me in the same manner I did to you. We have a local phrase for this called "paying back with the same coin".

--------------------

My play: Not generalizing. But my own defenses, when they literally describe how I always play, are basically just describing how I always play. As I am still relatively new to this site (or at least to many of its players), it is generally relevant to the accusations against me. It is not, to me, the same as saying that someone's points have no validity and are out of no where. It is reframing motivation for actions. To me, there is a difference. YMMV

I can accept this, but I don't personally feel it's always the case. I remember vividly spending a full cycle arguing with you in Watchmen, when I read you as bad, and I often felt like hitting my face against a wall with you implying I just don't get or like the way you play. This is the type of defense that I reference.

One statement about my posts: ?

if you keep pushing it in the same style I've pointed out, which doesn't add up to anything.

I've responded to everything you said, because that's what my posts were precisely, responses to what you bring up or state. Must I really ask you for a third time to point or explain properly the misdirection you brought up and suspect me for, considering what you've said does not make one tiny bit of sense? If your replies and views are so out of sphere, why must I keep "responding to any of it" in a way I find increasingly futile?

Ah, the good old feeling of talking to the moon when trying to discuss anything with you is returning.

...***post truncated for length to relevant lines***...

If your next reply to me will remain unanswered, consider it that I've considered it pointless to keep talking to you on these matters.

Oh, also, "entirely silly thought process" in this post is also in this category.

That is definitely more than 1. Also, the general tone of your responses is dismissive of me in general.

Oh god no, do I really have to spell it out? Just look at how you've changed the perspective on what I meant in the previous reply:

If you're going to be dismissive and vaguely insulting every time you address me, and remind me in each post about how my posts do not make sense in your mind, then it really doesn't inspire me to clarify anything.

I have made one statement about how I found that something you said doesn't make sense. If you don't clarify what you meant by it and I have to ask again for you to clarify it, then yes, I also have to remind the fact that it did not make sense to me. Saying "My posts" is plural, generalizing and untrue of what I did. Keeping being evasive, though.

So you took "I made a one-time statement about how something you said doesn't make sense" and turned into "I made 'more than 1' statements that are 'dismissive and vaguely insulting every time'". Is it out of misunderstanding or because it suits you better to villainize me, I wonder?

But fine, I'll spell it out again. Here's the entire sequence, in fact:

Starting to wonder if your posting is intentional and subtle misdirection.

What am I misdirecting towards?

It read to me like you were creating an association with all prior lynches that included an aspect of closedness. And you were not painting a picture of caution in general, in fact you even said that he was quick to draw prior to this.

All lynches except D2 were facilitated by tallies being frozen or shut down. This is factual. If the Judge will lockdown this Day at any point until EoD, he will technically facilitate a lynch result by shutting down activity. Huge association there, what can I say.
All of the Judge's previous actions were quick. This is factual. You are correct I didn't call the Judge cautious in general, because I didn't. I called him cautious with using his current lockdown. It is only you who say I painted a picture of caution in general.

Like I said, subtle misdirection. So that you can come back and say it wasn't there and so that it might not be noticed.

[I have absolutely no idea what your first sentence means, but I'll give it a shot at interpreting anyway:] etc.

interesting that you tried to get what I was saying, but didn't respond to any of it.

I've responded to everything you said (...) Must I really ask you for a third time to point or explain properly the misdirection you brought up and suspect me for, considering what you've said does not make one tiny bit of sense?

If you're going to be dismissive and vaguely insulting every time you address me, and remind me in each post about how my posts do not make sense in your mind, then it really doesn't inspire me to clarify anything.

- Generalizing from one argument to making it sound I meant all your posts don't make sense, clear as day.

have made one statement about how I found that something you said doesn't make sense.

And we're back to present day.

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And yes, everything you post in mafia is significant evidence. That's kind of the point of the game. That I read things and hypothesize is how I theorize--sometimes my theories are spot on, sometimes they are not.

If you feel posting stats and screwing up a count by one is your "significant evidence" out of this entire game, then by all means. I'm not the one overblowing "you read a team count by an extra one" into "you're trying to throw the players into despair", you are. That you can't handle sarc from others (in that I dismissed this suspicious as weak and ridiculous whilst forgetting to keep my srs biz face on) and you further overblow into "that's how baddies would deflect things", again, it's not my fault and you are free to weave it, if it makes so much sense.

On the other hand, after being on Golden's case throughout the entire D3, on D4 you've only been emotionally defensive towards JJJ, you've stuck with an older suspicion on TH and you picked on me. I will be scrutinizing your activity from now on, to see how serious you are in continuing to search for "significant evidence" and "read things and hypothesize", because that was weak activity in D4, by your standards.

In this particular case, I threw the comment out there. That your response has been dismissive, insulting, and overblown, I think says a lot about where you stand in this game. And it's not on the side of the civies.

Except for the sarc you couldn't handle, I have not been dismissive, insulting and overblown in my initial reply to your ping. I have asked for reasoning, I have clarified my own - this is all normal rebuttal. The fact that it has since grown out of proportion is as much your contribution as it is mine, per evidence by each sequence of replies we currently share.

I'm not civ, I'm not bad, I'm neutral and unrecruited.

Also I notice you are now completely shapeshifting your case. I'm suddenly not suspicious for misdirecting anymore, I'm suspicious for being dismissive, insulting and overblown. Could the change be because your initial case is almost entirely debunked?

I have not posted "non-accurate informations" about the Supreme Judge's actions. I have proven that factually.
I have not posted the team stats with nefarious intent. It is only your option to interpret my count mistakes as such.
I have not implied anything about shenanigans being from the same player, in order to distort reality. I have proven that factually. I have proven that you are the one reading that the wrong way and as such you are the one interpreting it as nefarious out of a misread.

I have asked you in the previous reply to counter, point, or clarify where have I posted "non-accurate information" about the Supreme Judge. You have skipped this entirely and not addressed it one bit. Not one single bit.

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I am hencefort going back to focusing on my cases and the general direction of the game throughout D5. It is clear you have no case on me and you are switching to interpreting tone and appealing to me being dismissive and insulting, because it suits you better.

Case closed.

[Tangrowth]

Cheers, Ubzargan.

Thanks for the game, BR and LC. It really is an awesome game. I'm sorry that it didn't come at a better time for me. I hope all of you have tons of fun. I look forward to the day when I can come back to playing mafia and it's not such an emotional burden for me; until then, I'll be around.